4:15 I'd just like to clarify that this is more due to a lack of orders being placed than due to there being too many factories, but it is nonetheless a real issue that the rolling stock manufacturing sector has faced over the past few years. Hopefully though, this supposed "long term rolling stock strategy" that Labour are promising will make this issue a thing of the past!
It's great that Siemens has opened a new factory in Goole to build the next generation of tube trains. However, the Government needs to accelerate the erection of OLE to minimise wasting resources on the 30% to 80% more expensive over fully electric bi-modes over 30 years.
I live near goole and and work in manufacturing, this is a really positive thing for the whole area. Many governments have turned their back on the sector as its a sector which needs much support and stability. They want the boom and bust to make a quick buck which manufacturing cannot accommodate. However stability and manufacturing are good for the population as they provide high levels of skilled jobs across a wide industry range from supply chain, transport, training and education, infrastructure etc etc. Employment improves social mobility and funds public services as well as reducing crime and anti social behaviour. Export is key so that new money is brought into the country. We cannot rely on our money going round and round in circles this will not be sustainable on a low turnover item.
Good that we have got people investing in a decaying railway system. I just hope that this new factory will integrate well in the market, without causing loss of jobs in other areas due to competition. Edit: I put the comment before the "my thoughts" section. Absolutely agree 100% with what you said.
This was not all built since the election. The Transport Secretary should be acknowledging the work of the previous government and not trying to take the credit for a development that she has contributed nothing to.
Politicians love to take the credit for things that had nothing to do with them, just look at the Boris Bikes which were actually implemented by Ken Livingstone!
Don't forget the CAF factory in South Wales. I don't know their plans, bur know initially it has been an assembly line for many parts brought in from all over the place, much like how Hitachi started in NE England. So maybe, arguably four train manufacturing sites.
It's likely if new future train orders come through and get rewarded to CAF that they may manufacture the trains in Wales. I think a fee CAF cavities were built there but majority in spain, I wont be sulrised if the new LNER CAF civitys somewhat get manufactured here too
it great news as i pass goole a few time and it has seen better days but also hoping not only will new tube trains be built there but also new rolling stock for northern/transpennine and cross country could be built there as those three really need new rolling stock to deal with over crowed and under Under capacity and outdated trains they have at the momment.
Brought back in to public ownership how exactly? Even if Alstom were forced to sell Litchurch Lane, that would only provide a factory and a workforce. What about the intellectual property associated with the Aventra Platform design and systems integration? The most complex train subsystems are TCMS and Propulsion. Those are supplied by Alstom's in-house subsidiaries that are not physically in the UK. They would never even contemplate including those in such a sale because they're already committed to supplying all of Alstom RS projects globally. Then there's the software development, which used to happen in Sweden but is mostly shifted to India now. I'm afraid things are no where near as simple as people think, mostly because trains have got way more complex since the days of BREL.
@@robllan It’s only more complex because we have made it more complex and that not a good thing Alstom UK has more than just factories based in the UK. The other solution would be buy Alstom UK and Wabtec UK which includes brush traction. Also when it comes to traction we always got Rolls-Royce. It’s like if we wanted to rebuild the British automotive industry would have to buy back Leyland,Leyland Trucks,Leyland Buses,Rover and MG. We need to put reliability and quality over anything else.
@@jammiedodger7040 that would be an incredibly costly scheme with no guarantee of success in a globally competitive market. I would advocate for reinstating HS2 as a much higher priority than any such scheme.
@@robllan It would be guaranteed for success if British Rail was reestablished which would include taking back EWS (DB UK) and re-establishing BritIsh Rail as the primary operator for both freight and passengers and they would only be allowed to acquire British locomotives and Rolling stock. It would also mean the railway network could be grown to the scale of 1960’s. Also both schemes would increase the size of the British industrial sector and promote growth to the private British industry sector. Both schemes would be expensive but they would pay off in the end and start a massive growth in the economy which is what is needed. Also as part of it as it would be a slow take over standardisation could be achieved meaning BR would actually be profitable.
@@jammiedodger7040 it’s a nice idea, but I really can’t see the political stars aligning to allow such a plan to come to fruition. The Labour government has long hinted at re-nationalisation, but what they really mean by that is to bring the TOCs back under government ownership. (This is already happening because franchises aren’t being renewed). But they don’t have the funds or political will to sponsor state owned manufacturing units or to end the ROSCOs ownership of the rolling stock etc. The abortive costs to restructuring in that way would be prohibitive. And in general, you don’t see capitalist nations with a market economy doing that sort of thing. Not in this century anyway.
Siemens might even win the bid to manufacture new tube stocks for the Bakerloo Line to replace the 1972 Stock. I would like to see that happening in the next few years.
Wishful thinking that Siemens (or any other UK based RS manufacturers) will win international orders for export. Input costs in the UK are astronomical compared to places like India, Brazil and China. What most people don't appreciate is that when nations decide they're ready to place an order with an overseas manufacturer, they'll inevitably opt for an "international competitive bidding" procurement approach. In that scenario, the largest RS manufacturers (Alstom, CAF, Siemens, CRRC etc) won't propose a bid based on manufacturing being done in the UK. Doing so would guarantee their failure based on their bid price. Nations will only ever agree to "overpay" for rolling stock if doing so secures an order for their own domestic manufacturing base (as is the case in the UK with Goole). The only other scenario is if there's a "soft loan" being offered as part of the deal (E.g. as Japan & China frequently do for developing nations) but Britain has never had a strategy of offering finance to win orders for its industry. I know folk might reply to my comment saying that Alstom is already exporting from Litchurch Lane right now, but that is a different kettle of fish. Their exports are for a bespoke Monorail system which is a relatively small "Turnkey" order. Such projects are small scale and don't come around that often.
Not sure how the test tracks will work. I know they're building a new one in south Wales but obviously that's quite a long way away. I imagine they'll replicate whatever Hitachi do at their factory which (to my knowledge) doesn't have a test track
@@NetworkNewsUK Hitachi have a short stretch of electrified track for testing new trains at slow speeds. It runs south from the factory alongside the Bishop Auckland to Darlington line.
I think that Siemens should also manufacture new tube trains for the Bakerloo Line as the Bakerloo Line desperately needs new tube trains. But it’s nice to see that they are to build and manufacture the new Piccadilly Line trains which these new tube trains should enter service from next year. Very nice.
Most companies are foreign. Including car manufacturers. As long as there are UK factories it can be adapted and used to build trains for their needs easier.
Where the hell do they get off calling this a factory or manufacturing facility... this is neither. Assembly plant yes, but manufacturing NO.. Just like hitachi in Newton Aycliffe everything will be manufactured abroad and only assembled here. The place isn't even big enough to "Manufacture" anything.
4:15 I'd just like to clarify that this is more due to a lack of orders being placed than due to there being too many factories, but it is nonetheless a real issue that the rolling stock manufacturing sector has faced over the past few years. Hopefully though, this supposed "long term rolling stock strategy" that Labour are promising will make this issue a thing of the past!
But the government are still pandering to foreign companies
It's great that Siemens has opened a new factory in Goole to build the next generation of tube trains. However, the Government needs to accelerate the erection of OLE to minimise wasting resources on the 30% to 80% more expensive over fully electric bi-modes over 30 years.
I live near goole and and work in manufacturing, this is a really positive thing for the whole area. Many governments have turned their back on the sector as its a sector which needs much support and stability. They want the boom and bust to make a quick buck which manufacturing cannot accommodate. However stability and manufacturing are good for the population as they provide high levels of skilled jobs across a wide industry range from supply chain, transport, training and education, infrastructure etc etc. Employment improves social mobility and funds public services as well as reducing crime and anti social behaviour. Export is key so that new money is brought into the country. We cannot rely on our money going round and round in circles this will not be sustainable on a low turnover item.
Good that we have got people investing in a decaying railway system.
I just hope that this new factory will integrate well in the market, without causing loss of jobs in other areas due to competition.
Edit: I put the comment before the "my thoughts" section. Absolutely agree 100% with what you said.
This was not all built since the election. The Transport Secretary should be acknowledging the work of the previous government and not trying to take the credit for a development that she has contributed nothing to.
Politicians love to take the credit for things that had nothing to do with them, just look at the Boris Bikes which were actually implemented by Ken Livingstone!
Don't forget the CAF factory in South Wales. I don't know their plans, bur know initially it has been an assembly line for many parts brought in from all over the place, much like how Hitachi started in NE England. So maybe, arguably four train manufacturing sites.
It's likely if new future train orders come through and get rewarded to CAF that they may manufacture the trains in Wales. I think a fee CAF cavities were built there but majority in spain, I wont be sulrised if the new LNER CAF civitys somewhat get manufactured here too
Great video!
I think the biggest problem for the train industry is that every country want to build trains in their country.
it great news as i pass goole a few time and it has seen better days but also hoping not only will new tube trains be built there but also new rolling stock for northern/transpennine and cross country could be built there as those three really need new rolling stock to deal with over crowed and under Under capacity and outdated trains they have at the momment.
Alstom UK should be brought back into public ownership and rebranded British Rail Engineering.
Brought back in to public ownership how exactly? Even if Alstom were forced to sell Litchurch Lane, that would only provide a factory and a workforce. What about the intellectual property associated with the Aventra Platform design and systems integration? The most complex train subsystems are TCMS and Propulsion. Those are supplied by Alstom's in-house subsidiaries that are not physically in the UK. They would never even contemplate including those in such a sale because they're already committed to supplying all of Alstom RS projects globally. Then there's the software development, which used to happen in Sweden but is mostly shifted to India now. I'm afraid things are no where near as simple as people think, mostly because trains have got way more complex since the days of BREL.
@@robllan It’s only more complex because we have made it more complex and that not a good thing Alstom UK has more than just factories based in the UK.
The other solution would be buy Alstom UK and Wabtec UK which includes brush traction.
Also when it comes to traction we always got Rolls-Royce.
It’s like if we wanted to rebuild the British automotive industry would have to buy back Leyland,Leyland Trucks,Leyland Buses,Rover and MG.
We need to put reliability and quality over anything else.
@@jammiedodger7040 that would be an incredibly costly scheme with no guarantee of success in a globally competitive market. I would advocate for reinstating HS2 as a much higher priority than any such scheme.
@@robllan It would be guaranteed for success if British Rail was reestablished which would include taking back EWS (DB UK) and re-establishing BritIsh Rail as the primary operator for both freight and passengers and they would only be allowed to acquire British locomotives and Rolling stock.
It would also mean the railway network could be grown to the scale of 1960’s.
Also both schemes would increase the size of the British industrial sector and promote growth to the private British industry sector.
Both schemes would be expensive but they would pay off in the end and start a massive growth in the economy which is what is needed.
Also as part of it as it would be a slow take over standardisation could be achieved meaning BR would actually be profitable.
@@jammiedodger7040 it’s a nice idea, but I really can’t see the political stars aligning to allow such a plan to come to fruition. The Labour government has long hinted at re-nationalisation, but what they really mean by that is to bring the TOCs back under government ownership. (This is already happening because franchises aren’t being renewed). But they don’t have the funds or political will to sponsor state owned manufacturing units or to end the ROSCOs ownership of the rolling stock etc. The abortive costs to restructuring in that way would be prohibitive. And in general, you don’t see capitalist nations with a market economy doing that sort of thing. Not in this century anyway.
Siemens might even win the bid to manufacture new tube stocks for the Bakerloo Line to replace the 1972 Stock. I would like to see that happening in the next few years.
That's certainly what TfL would like to see as well, but ultimately it'll all come down to whether or not central government is willing to fund it!
Wishful thinking that Siemens (or any other UK based RS manufacturers) will win international orders for export. Input costs in the UK are astronomical compared to places like India, Brazil and China. What most people don't appreciate is that when nations decide they're ready to place an order with an overseas manufacturer, they'll inevitably opt for an "international competitive bidding" procurement approach. In that scenario, the largest RS manufacturers (Alstom, CAF, Siemens, CRRC etc) won't propose a bid based on manufacturing being done in the UK. Doing so would guarantee their failure based on their bid price. Nations will only ever agree to "overpay" for rolling stock if doing so secures an order for their own domestic manufacturing base (as is the case in the UK with Goole). The only other scenario is if there's a "soft loan" being offered as part of the deal (E.g. as Japan & China frequently do for developing nations) but Britain has never had a strategy of offering finance to win orders for its industry. I know folk might reply to my comment saying that Alstom is already exporting from Litchurch Lane right now, but that is a different kettle of fish. Their exports are for a bespoke Monorail system which is a relatively small "Turnkey" order. Such projects are small scale and don't come around that often.
Wow so seimens have a new emu platform . I had a feeling they'd get Germanys newer units over here.
Yay something beneficial to the economy
Just a thought; With Siemens test tracks being in Wildenrath Germany have we still got Dalby to test these trains in this country?
Not sure how the test tracks will work. I know they're building a new one in south Wales but obviously that's quite a long way away. I imagine they'll replicate whatever Hitachi do at their factory which (to my knowledge) doesn't have a test track
@@NetworkNewsUK Hitachi have a short stretch of electrified track for testing new trains at slow speeds. It runs south from the factory alongside the Bishop Auckland to Darlington line.
Update: I've just learned that Siemens is intending to build a ~1km test track that will open next Autumn
Is it a factory or is it like Newton Aycliffe just an assembly plant ?
It's a factory that started as an assembly plant.
When these train start testing on the Piccadilly Line?
I think they'll either start late this year or early next year
I think that Siemens should also manufacture new tube trains for the Bakerloo Line as the Bakerloo Line desperately needs new tube trains. But it’s nice to see that they are to build and manufacture the new Piccadilly Line trains which these new tube trains should enter service from next year. Very nice.
Well I've heard that if the new Bakerloo line trains are going ahead it will need to be confirmed in the next year or two so watch this space
Indeed
Do you know if the tube trains be moved into to London on road or rail?
Not sure, possibly a bit of both?
I still do not like the fact it is a foreign company but it good they will be making trains in Britain hopefully they design them in Britain as well.
Most companies are foreign. Including car manufacturers. As long as there are UK factories it can be adapted and used to build trains for their needs easier.
@@bb-3653 That’s because the Government fucked up the British industrial sector.
We used to build our own trains, how low we have sunk.
At least we're building them in this country, even if the company is foreign-owned
It would be awesome if we did start exporting trains from this factory but it sounds a bit fanciful.
My thoughts as well
Where the hell do they get off calling this a factory or manufacturing facility... this is neither. Assembly plant yes, but manufacturing NO.. Just like hitachi in Newton Aycliffe everything will be manufactured abroad and only assembled here. The place isn't even big enough to "Manufacture" anything.