The RAT theory you mentioned reminded me of a Brad & Kyle video where their coach Daniel Puerto showed how the same layout could be in 2 different locations for 2 different bowlers with different PAPs. Kyle was definitely guilty of the RAT theory. 🤣 Good vid.
the demonstration you gave at 2:42 is the initial core angle, which is controlled by the pin-PAP distance, not the drilling angle. The drilling angle (1st angle) controls the rotation of the core about the pin axis relative to the PAP, (i.e. which direction the "front" of the core faces relative to the PAP).
How do you determine how to lay it out taking into account, overstock, core, bowler speed and rpm? I.e a person throws a ball 20 mph and 450 rpms and wants a hybrid assymetrical ball with a 1500 finish, what would you suggest for layout?
Could you do another video doing the other types of layouts 2ls and vls kind of explaining the numbers. The way you explain things are always transparent and better. I know the layouts essentially come out the same but the “process” is different.
Can you do pitch and lateral since I know a lot of two handed bowlers track over middle finger. Can you make a vid about how to get off of the ring finger let’s say hand position and actually doing the layout for it
I'm confused JR. I never understood this and should. My PAP is 5 3/8 and 2 1/4 up. So, how should I have a Black Hammer Pearl drilled for angular motion in a 16 lb ball?
@moonshinesonata_ Everybody makes a big deal about VLS vs dual angle, but it's really 6 of one/ half dozen of the other. One method's set of numbers is easily translated to the other, and the basic principles are the same... it's like asking Waze for a different route to the same destination. However you choose to get there, both systems orient the core a chosen way to produce the desired ball motion. Either way you're tweaking the same variables.
Do you just have to take a guess for a new bowler? Like, they don't have any fundamentals down, aren't releasing consistent, don't have footwork figured out, probably don't come close to even throwing a ball the same twice. Do you just have to guess and drill them a ball and let them use that for awhile then evaluate them later to drill them another ball more suited to their throw? Basically just using their first ball as a stepping stone to learn how they throw and then a second ball to dial them in better?
Excluding the extreme cases like full rollers, high tilt spinners, etc... most amateur bowlers with a typical release and average tilt will have similar PAP's, only fractions of an inch apart. So for any chosen layout, a "middle of the road" PAP for the first ball (usually something like 5" over x 1/2" up) will give you angles that are only a couple of degrees off from where they'd be if the PAP had been known more precisely beforehand. And for a novice who's got no idea what they're doing anyway, the effect on ball motion is negligible.
You say side weight doesn't matter, the USBC ball motion study says it has a bigger impact than mass bias. Where are you getting that statement about side wieght?
He has an older video showing exactly that. It's here somewhere, and describes the process quite well. It's really not hard to do. You need a pro sect to measure the angles, and you have to know where your PAP is. Trying to describe it here would take all day, but all you're really doing is the exact same steps shown in this video, just in reverse order. Obviously your goal is not to find where the holes will go, because you already have them... instead, you're just working backwards from there. Knowing your PAP is essential, though... if you don't know those numbers, it can't be done.
@andrewbrakey6214 Finding your PAP from the oil track requires a different tool called an armadillo (why it's called that i have no idea, lol), a pro sect won't help you... they're strictly for measuring angles and distances when doing the layout. Both the armadillo and pro sect are absurdly expensive for what they are... pro sect is upwards of $100 for what is probably 50 cents worth of Chinese plastic, but I digress. Not sure about the armadillo, but I know it ain't cheap. There used to be a guy selling 3D printed pro sects on ebay for a fraction of what Turbo charges... that's where I got mine, but it was a couple of years ago. Armadillo I don't have.
Sir. THANK YOU SOOOOOOO much for that correct, informative, and outstanding explanation of how and what a layout is and means
The RAT theory you mentioned reminded me of a Brad & Kyle video where their coach Daniel Puerto showed how the same layout could be in 2 different locations for 2 different bowlers with different PAPs. Kyle was definitely guilty of the RAT theory. 🤣 Good vid.
the demonstration you gave at 2:42 is the initial core angle, which is controlled by the pin-PAP distance, not the drilling angle. The drilling angle (1st angle) controls the rotation of the core about the pin axis relative to the PAP, (i.e. which direction the "front" of the core faces relative to the PAP).
A. Thank you for the lesson B. THANK YOU for showing a ball I haven't seen before
This was helpful and explained to easily understand!
Great! Glad it helped
How do you determine how to lay it out taking into account, overstock, core, bowler speed and rpm? I.e a person throws a ball 20 mph and 450 rpms and wants a hybrid assymetrical ball with a 1500 finish, what would you suggest for layout?
Could you do another video doing the other types of layouts 2ls and vls kind of explaining the numbers. The way you explain things are always transparent and better. I know the layouts essentially come out the same but the “process” is different.
Hey JR..where can i find that kind of grease pencil for my pro shop...great video to teach people how to layout balls.!
I found them on amazon
Jr, how much does you pap change as you throw the ball with different hand positions?
Can you do pitch and lateral since I know a lot of two handed bowlers track over middle finger. Can you make a vid about how to get off of the ring finger let’s say hand position and actually doing the layout for it
I'm confused JR. I never understood this and should. My PAP is 5 3/8 and 2 1/4 up. So, how should I have a Black Hammer Pearl drilled for angular motion in a 16 lb ball?
What brand is that wax pen/pencil that you're using? Does it need sharpening?
I found them on Amazon
No sharpening. They twist up but they aren’t a very fine line
How do you find someone’s pitches in a bowling ball that has grips in them? I have pitch gauges but don’t know if you have to take them out our not
Will you do an asym layout now
Do you prefer Dual Angle over VLS ? One better than the other?
@moonshinesonata_ Everybody makes a big deal about VLS vs dual angle, but it's really 6 of one/ half dozen of the other. One method's set of numbers is easily translated to the other, and the basic principles are the same... it's like asking Waze for a different route to the same destination. However you choose to get there, both systems orient the core a chosen way to produce the desired ball motion. Either way you're tweaking the same variables.
I just like duel angle just because it’s simpler and easier to repeat layouts
Do you just have to take a guess for a new bowler? Like, they don't have any fundamentals down, aren't releasing consistent, don't have footwork figured out, probably don't come close to even throwing a ball the same twice. Do you just have to guess and drill them a ball and let them use that for awhile then evaluate them later to drill them another ball more suited to their throw?
Basically just using their first ball as a stepping stone to learn how they throw and then a second ball to dial them in better?
Yeah essentially their first ball is about getting fit correct. So we drill a cheap ball or plastic ball first generally
Excluding the extreme cases like full rollers, high tilt spinners, etc... most amateur bowlers with a typical release and average tilt will have similar PAP's, only fractions of an inch apart. So for any chosen layout, a "middle of the road" PAP for the first ball (usually something like 5" over x 1/2" up) will give you angles that are only a couple of degrees off from where they'd be if the PAP had been known more precisely beforehand. And for a novice who's got no idea what they're doing anyway, the effect on ball motion is negligible.
Same principles for left-handed setups?
Yup... but obviously all the measurements will be done on the opposite side of the ball.
@notonyourlife7939 thanks, looking to get into the sport, and, naturally, I roll stones with the wrong hand.
You say side weight doesn't matter, the USBC ball motion study says it has a bigger impact than mass bias. Where are you getting that statement about side wieght?
Side weight only matters to ball motion if your ball speed is below 12mph. Side weight can be important for how the ball goes through the pins though
Cool video talk tech bowling ball
Can you show us how to figure that out with it drilled already i would like to do that on my balls.
He has an older video showing exactly that. It's here somewhere, and describes the process quite well. It's really not hard to do. You need a pro sect to measure the angles, and you have to know where your PAP is. Trying to describe it here would take all day, but all you're really doing is the exact same steps shown in this video, just in reverse order. Obviously your goal is not to find where the holes will go, because you already have them... instead, you're just working backwards from there. Knowing your PAP is essential, though... if you don't know those numbers, it can't be done.
@notonyourlife7939 how you get that from oil track? Going to order one of these dudads.
@andrewbrakey6214 Finding your PAP from the oil track requires a different tool called an armadillo (why it's called that i have no idea, lol), a pro sect won't help you... they're strictly for measuring angles and distances when doing the layout. Both the armadillo and pro sect are absurdly expensive for what they are... pro sect is upwards of $100 for what is probably 50 cents worth of Chinese plastic, but I digress. Not sure about the armadillo, but I know it ain't cheap. There used to be a guy selling 3D printed pro sects on ebay for a fraction of what Turbo charges... that's where I got mine, but it was a couple of years ago. Armadillo I don't have.
@@notonyourlife7939 50 cents for the plastic, $99 to put the lines and numbers on it!