I have been reflecting on the Norse pantheons a lot recently, I think they tell us a lot about the struggles of our ancestors. For instance, prior to the neolithic era (settled agriculture), the world would have been a daunting place under which our ancestors had no control, such as unpredictable hunting / fishing opportunities and plummeting temperatures. It would, therefore, make sense that the forces which governed their lives were chaotic, vast and remorseless (the Jotnar). Then came the neolithic and I suspect this is where the pantheon changed to the Vanir with gods such as Njordr (fishing and crop fertility) and Freyr (fair weather, fertility and good harvest). Finally, we have the Aesir who seemed to rise to prominence when farming communities became more organised and could conduct large scale raids with gods such as Odin (war and wisdom), Thor (protection) and Tyr (war treaties). It makes me think what will come next. As our world slides more towards control and totalitarianism (largely due to the actions of our parasitic ruling class), what pantheon will emerge?
"Turkland" = Anatolia = Asia Minor = Home of Troy. Many Peoples, including the Romans, tried to tie themselves back to the Trojan War in some form, or fashion. While these are all broadly related peoples that shared similar cultural/aesthetic value, they were fairly distinct in terms of their lineages. Modern Italians, really do have genetic similarities to populations in Ancient Anatolia, in keeping with the overall story in the mythical "Aeneid", but Northern European populations have much less connection to Anatolia, though both are much more closely related to each other, than to other well-known populations in the Near East, for example. Cheers.
Was it snorre in the 13th century that said someone came from turkland, which i guess anatolia was in the ottoman process by then, and maybe other turkic migrations prior? Or was this reference to a turkland something that snorre wrote that the stories, songs and poems had said way before age 0 when there were no turks in anatolia bcs it was the roman empire there then? And in that case refering to some other place being the turkland? Be it caucasus with slme turkic migration there or even further into the eurasian steppe into central/eastish siberia? But the point, stories, theories and references to troy are always interesting, with the roman origin myth, the greecs there, the hittites nearby, and further back the theories about the indo europeans being south of the caucasus before going north of the caucasus and then exploding in their/our massive spread
@@dasitmane7590 Yes, I think "Turk" at the time of Snorre was a catch-all term for "Eurasians" that weren't quite "Mongols", so to speak. There are references to Atilah in the Sagas, as well and he is often described as "Turkic"(culturally/linguistically), if not from "Asia-Minor"/Anatolia proper. It does seem like a deeply ancient memory of coming from further East in to the West. Even Odin as a character is far more "Scythian"/Eurasian than he is natively Norse, which is why there are also so few proper and place names that reference him. His magic horse is another tip-off of being of Steppe origins too. Even Gandalf had Shadofax ;) "Asia" and "Europe" are really all just the same chunk of dirt and it's fairly easy to traverse, especially if you have a horse. Just ask the Mongols. Cheers!
Placing the origin of the IE warriors south of the Caucasus doesn't make sense, the men would've carried haplogroup R1b1, which seems most likely to have come to Europe from Kazakhstan, not the Caucasus. They had Caucasian admixture because they took Caucasian wives (and Caucasian men took their sisters and/or daughters as wives).
I just discovered your channel after doom scrolling through so much typical algorithm derived content and it was so nourishing to my soul. I've been binge watching ever since. Keep up these great conversations on all the topics you cover.
In the sagas the Alans are mentioned once, and it is said that 'they are our kinsfolk' (probably relating to the norse dynasty the person was part of. Need I remind you of the steppe/kurgan related contents of the Oseberg burial?) Link to Alans estaqblished, tentatively. Alans came travelling west past the caucasus from asia roughly 2000 yrs ago. They came in conflict with the armenians, war ensued, peace brokered, hostaqes given on both sides. A royal name among armenians in those days was Vreyr. Armenians were known as Van people. (this conflict was recorded by roman or greek historians back then). So is the story of the Æsirs war with the Vana's, and the exchange of hostages, among them Freyr, simply a faint memory from a person married into the norse dynasties during the hunnic period, when they were all ruled together under Attilla? I think so..
Thanks for the many good comments! And thanks to Jan Ove, Bork and @Cave of Apelles for a great time👍
Actually, we had elected Kings in Poland as well. The Kingdom was called Rzeczpospolita, which stands for Republic.
This is fantastic. Thank you for this amazing interview, I just discovered you and am now a follower!
I have been reflecting on the Norse pantheons a lot recently, I think they tell us a lot about the struggles of our ancestors.
For instance, prior to the neolithic era (settled agriculture), the world would have been a daunting place under which our ancestors had no control, such as unpredictable hunting / fishing opportunities and plummeting temperatures. It would, therefore, make sense that the forces which governed their lives were chaotic, vast and remorseless (the Jotnar).
Then came the neolithic and I suspect this is where the pantheon changed to the Vanir with gods such as Njordr (fishing and crop fertility) and Freyr (fair weather, fertility and good harvest).
Finally, we have the Aesir who seemed to rise to prominence when farming communities became more organised and could conduct large scale raids with gods such as Odin (war and wisdom), Thor (protection) and Tyr (war treaties).
It makes me think what will come next. As our world slides more towards control and totalitarianism (largely due to the actions of our parasitic ruling class), what pantheon will emerge?
This was excellent.
STURLA RULE
What a delightful surprise to discover another one of your great conversations! What a gift! Thank you gentlemen! 😊
Always something worth my while here. thanks
Absolutely.❤
Outstanding conversation, most entertaining, thank you.
"Turkland" = Anatolia = Asia Minor = Home of Troy. Many Peoples, including the Romans, tried to tie themselves back to the Trojan War in some form, or fashion. While these are all broadly related peoples that shared similar cultural/aesthetic value, they were fairly distinct in terms of their lineages. Modern Italians, really do have genetic similarities to populations in Ancient Anatolia, in keeping with the overall story in the mythical "Aeneid", but Northern European populations have much less connection to Anatolia, though both are much more closely related to each other, than to other well-known populations in the Near East, for example. Cheers.
Could the "gods" have been from an elite ruling class with some genetic distance from the majority population?
Was it snorre in the 13th century that said someone came from turkland, which i guess anatolia was in the ottoman process by then, and maybe other turkic migrations prior? Or was this reference to a turkland something that snorre wrote that the stories, songs and poems had said way before age 0 when there were no turks in anatolia bcs it was the roman empire there then? And in that case refering to some other place being the turkland? Be it caucasus with slme turkic migration there or even further into the eurasian steppe into central/eastish siberia? But the point, stories, theories and references to troy are always interesting, with the roman origin myth, the greecs there, the hittites nearby, and further back the theories about the indo europeans being south of the caucasus before going north of the caucasus and then exploding in their/our massive spread
@@dasitmane7590 Yes, I think "Turk" at the time of Snorre was a catch-all term for "Eurasians" that weren't quite "Mongols", so to speak. There are references to Atilah in the Sagas, as well and he is often described as "Turkic"(culturally/linguistically), if not from "Asia-Minor"/Anatolia proper. It does seem like a deeply ancient memory of coming from further East in to the West. Even Odin as a character is far more "Scythian"/Eurasian than he is natively Norse, which is why there are also so few proper and place names that reference him. His magic horse is another tip-off of being of Steppe origins too. Even Gandalf had Shadofax ;) "Asia" and "Europe" are really all just the same chunk of dirt and it's fairly easy to traverse, especially if you have a horse. Just ask the Mongols. Cheers!
Placing the origin of the IE warriors south of the Caucasus doesn't make sense, the men would've carried haplogroup R1b1, which seems most likely to have come to Europe from Kazakhstan, not the Caucasus. They had Caucasian admixture because they took Caucasian wives (and Caucasian men took their sisters and/or daughters as wives).
I just discovered your channel after doom scrolling through so much typical algorithm derived content and it was so nourishing to my soul. I've been binge watching ever since. Keep up these great conversations on all the topics you cover.
In the sagas the Alans are mentioned once, and it is said that 'they are our kinsfolk' (probably relating to the norse dynasty the person was part of. Need I remind you of the steppe/kurgan related contents of the Oseberg burial?) Link to Alans estaqblished, tentatively. Alans came travelling west past the caucasus from asia roughly 2000 yrs ago. They came in conflict with the armenians, war ensued, peace brokered, hostaqes given on both sides. A royal name among armenians in those days was Vreyr. Armenians were known as Van people. (this conflict was recorded by roman or greek historians back then). So is the story of the Æsirs war with the Vana's, and the exchange of hostages, among them Freyr, simply a faint memory from a person married into the norse dynasties during the hunnic period, when they were all ruled together under Attilla? I think so..
This channel is a hidden gem, I am thankful for having found you through Architectural Uprising 🙏
Thank you! Great conversation gentlemen!
great thanks.
They worshipped ancestors. So it makes sense that they were once human. People who werechristian had a different type of god.
Jesus was a flesh and blood god too. Odin was the heavenly Allfather long before Jesus.
I am happy to find this channel. Quality presentation. 👍