Touching the Spider: A Conversation With Ken Levine | Sacred Symbols+, Episode 295
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Please welcome a person who needs no introduction: Ken Levine. Ken was kind enough to join me (Colin) on Sacred Symbols+ for an extensive and wide-ranging conversation, one that touches on his history, his games, his studios, his creative approach, and his mantra as a writer and director. It's been a decade since Mr. Levine has launched a new title; it's hard to believe BioShock is nearly 16 years old, while BioShock Infinite is 10! But in his reclusion boils something new, a game called Judas, a product crafted by a small team that promises to once again turn the narrative potential of our medium on its head. What's been on the mind of one of the industry's great auteurs? What's he been up to? How does he feel about his previous games? And -- perhaps most importantly -- is he bullish or bearish on the prospects of modern storytelling?
24:54 i love this point - ken is one of the few writers in games who approaches writing like a screenwriter would, and rather than make caricatures, actually tries to understand the characters he makes. we’re so lucky to have him, hahah. great interview!
This is how you do an interview. Great to see Ken being so open about his battle with mental health issues whilst having to lead a multi million dollar project. Many forget that these guys are actually human beings and not machines. Bioshock is a masterpiece. But like all great works of art it clearly came at a cost.
And of course Colin himself has had to pay a price being in this industry. Yet his love and passion for it, as well as Ken’s, has kept him going in spite of it all. Malicious words and actions have consequences. We might benefit as gamers from the end result that comes out of developing games like Bioshock, and the graft that people like Colin who put into their own projects. But it doesn’t hurt to be reminded that these human beings are doing this because they love the creative process so deeply, they want to share it with all of us.
“Giving more to fewer people”. I definitely relate big time to that sentiment. Biggest lesson I’ve learnt in all my relationships with people over the years, is kindness above all things.
What a channel. What an interview. Kudos to Colin and LSM. You guys are absolutely killing it. Mainstream games media take note. You won’t of course. But you should. All the best. Nadir.
100%
Artistic people often have emotional issues
@@jonathanramos8414 I've begun to realize how true this is. I don't tend to see artists, big or smalltime, that are fully okay mentally. My friends who are artists all have medically-confirmed mental conditions. I'm not sure what it is, but it seems to affect people in a lot of loosely connected fields. Hope y'all stay safe.
You are kidding right? Half of the time he keeps fanboying and putting Ken on a pedestal so high I don't even know how Ken turned it around and managed to remain humble without sounding self-depreciating. The other half he brings up his own anti SJW political bullshit, hoping he can pull Ken to his camp. He is an awful interviewer.
@@Chillerll You keep being you 😉
OMG!!! Sacred Symbols stays GOATED!
Worth every penny
Congrats to Colin for getting this interview!! This is huge and always Colin can really get into a great conversation in his interviews. Hats off 🎩
I could never get tired of listening to Ken talk about video games. He really fires up my inner game developer
Don’t ever let me hear someone say that LSM lacks quality and content. I won’t stand for it.
😂
We stand down for it! 😜👍
This is why I pay for this content
I’ve said it before but this is the best $5 subscription service in the world.
It's so good that I pay $25 and I don't even have to lol.
This is why I’m patient
Pay?? 😂
I’m watching it for free sucker.
Ken needs to make a deal with Lady Gaga to use her song Judas for his Game Judas when it drops lol
This was awesome! Probably the best interview I've seen with Ken so far. I'm REALLY glad you asked him about that Bloomberg article as well. I was curious about what he thought of it.
Colin mother fucking Moriarty ! Have to acknowledge this legendary moment as a long time fan of both Ken Levine’s work and the BEYOND days. Thank you Ken for your openness & willingness to share your journey with us, FANS !! You deserve all the praise and your voice in this industry does not go unnoticed. Just turned 30 last week & Bioshock is one of my favorite games of all time and I absolutely cannot wait for Judas🔥!!
Very respectful to give him the opportunity to make any cuts as necessary!!
The simple fact that these incredible minds and absolute murderers row of game creators respect Colin enough to come on his show and give him their time makes me proud as a fan and supporter of Colin/Last Stand dating back to the Beyond days. Bravo, Colin...bravo.
Real journalist!
This interview has got me way more excited for Judas. Ken is a really interesting dude.
Watching this put the hype in me again for Judas, went back and watched the trailer again. Listening to Ken is always cool. Put way more into perspective just how hard games are to make.
It would make 100x better if you guys put together a microphone kit for high profile interviews. Fedex a small pelican case w/ a simple USB microphone, like the RODE NT-USB. It won't be studio quality, but it would be soooo much better than the laptop microphone often used.
I understand where you're coming from, but I was thinking while listening to this how the low quality equipment Ken used was endearing. It made him feel very relatable.
My LSM patrons continues to be the best monthly Subscription I pay.
Amen to that brother. Same here.
First month subscribing to LSM and what do I get but a one-on-one interview with my favorite creative mind in the gaming biz. Great work Colin and crew. You would not believe how hard I flipped out when I opened my Patreon and saw this interview.
I'm an OCD sufferer and hearing that Ken went through what i'm going through right now gives me hope for the future. Thanks for speaking out about that Ken!
Ah man, bummer about Ken wanting to cut out any juicy stuff about Judas. I’m so curious what the “sizable portion toward the end of the podcast” was. That would’ve been awesome to hear.
I see Ken and Jaffe purchase their lighting from the same place 😂. (Edit: the lighting gets better a minute in)
Anyway, thanks for getting this interview! I’m so excited to watch it!!
Edit: fantastic interview. I never know he struggled with mental healf. Good job Colin.
Ken Levine is a creative genius. That allowed him to create Bioshock, and that also seems to put all of his games into development hell at some point, because he's very hard to work for. I, for one, can't wait for Judas, the first game from Ken in over a decade, and I'm all about it, from what very little I've seen, it looks amazing.
It would be great to have the full, unedited cut release AFTER the game comes out :)
Or get him back for a spoilercast
Man that would be so cool!
@@Sylvestror shit that would be OUTSTANDING!!!!! Remind Colin when the game comes out. @Colin if you end up liking the game pleeeeeeez try to get him back for a spoilercast. I’ve always wanted to see LSM have a game’s dev on for a spoiler cast. I get why LSM doesn’t really do that, but clearly the relationship with Ken is great, cuz he rarely does interviews lately with anyone.
probably more to do with when the game is due. What is it about etc stuff that take two isn't ready to release. Doubt it's actual story spoilers
Amazing interview. I really liked when Ken opened up about how some projects nearly broke him. We really do take these experiences for granted without realizing how much they take from their creators.
Good grief Colin... A rare L for you.
You had Ken Levine on and just ignored Thief and and System Shock 2 (Bioshock wouldn't even exist without it) to go straight to Bioshock, he even brought them up and you didn't want to know more about them? You brought up audio logs for Bioschock when System Shock 1 had them in 1994 and Ken had already used them in System Shock 2 in 1999. If only Chris had also been present for this conversation.
Yeeeaaaa that's not an "L". Colin obviously has a lot of love towards 'Bioshock', so based his questions off of that. He got the discussion he needed about audio logs and kept it moving.
@@EpicFurious It very much is and surprising considering he used to be a journalist. He even said he didn't want to retread things but kept on and on with Bioshock when he already knew the answers instead of asking him about the titles he's not familiar with. Hence why Chris should have also been present as he is familar with SS.
LSM is incredible & this interview is fantastic. Can't wait for their new game Judas.
Ken Levine has a BA in Drama from Vassar. This is irrelevant to the interview, but I always thought it was cute af.
Wow. Nice get Colin. Ken has really made quite the mark on gaming over the years. Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite are two of my all time favs. Well done, sir.
NO WAY!!! I just payed through Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite!
For the first time? Same. Bioshock 2 is good too
Ken is way too smart to be in game dev. and hope nothing but the best for Judas.
As someone with true OCD, and not the misunderstanding of using OCD as an adjective to describe a general sense of personal cleanliness. I sincerely understand what he went through, and it's like having a haunted house in your head. CBT was incredibly beneficial for me as well.
Cock and ball torture?
I remember the last interview Ken gave right before infinite launched. The sheer look of exhausted defeat on his face as he apathetically said something like " we wanted this game to be great, but oh well, pencils down". I can't imagine how crushing that must have been for him. Glad to see him being genuinely passionate about a project again.
Its nice to hear Ken himself say "we weren't trying to make any statement or call anyone out with Bioshock, it was just a cool setting" but unfortunatly video essayist wont care.
System Shock 2 is possibly my all time #1, at least top ten.
What an unbelievable get. Nice work getting him in Colin, and what a fantastic episode.
What an absolutely groundbreaking man and interview.
Bioshock is to this day my absolute favorite piece of art. Its impact on me as a young adult cannot be overstated.
There is a period in your childhood where you go from being mostly oblivious to the darker sides of the human experience, into a sort of awakening to some of those deeper themes which introduce us to the concepts of philosophy, good and evil, and the sometimes brutal dynamics of society.
Its usually between 12 and 16 that we begin to be able to understand these themes and that one piece of art that first opens our eyes to them has a profound impact on us.
It was Lord of the Rings for my grandfather and Pink Floyd's "The Wall" for my dad. It was Bioshock for me.
I hope one day that I can thank Ken myself for this massive gift he blessed this world with. Bioshock is one of the most compelling pieces of art I've ever experienced and playing that game through for the first time is one of the most fond memories I have in my life. I experienced it at a perfect time in my youth where the mysterious and immersive world of rapture "enraptured" my young mind to a degree of obsession and took me on a journey ill never forget
Thanks for the interview Colin and thanks for that magical experience Ken, ill truly never forget it
Man, this was such a great interview. Well worth the patreon money every time.
Ken Levine is super interesting man and it was interesting to hear about his struggles and the way you both talked about your mental health. Looking forward to Judas, whenever that may arrive. Hope he doesn't push himself too hard again.
Man I am falling behind on Last Stand content. So much amazing stuff and not enough time!
I want to thank Ken for coming out to speak after all these years. I know he did a fun interview with TheBioshockHub awhile back but it was insanely cool to see him talk with my favorite podcaster in Colin. So excited for Judas!
Some great stuff here, was very interesting hearing Ken critically reflect on how he used to act/habits in the past Vs now etc, not something I've heard many game directors/developers talk about before, e.g talking about insecurity. Thanks again for a great interview!
Bioshock's thematic and gameplay vision was stubbornly strong, refined, precise, and uncompromising. That is what people believed in and what immersed people. That IS the testiment to Bioshock's unwavering, lasting legacy.
So insightful! I dont think many people, if any, do interviews as good as Colin does. Thats why i pay my £5 Plus ive been listening to him since Beyond days
Great interview!! Very informative!! I wish you dived deeper into his writing process and how he approaches the writing side in video games. How he builds from outline and how he transforms it into a full blown story, I wish video games would publish VG scripts.
This is the top quality content that LSM does that shows why you don’t need to be part of the industry to be able to partake in the industry. Thank you all!
Big Daddy Ken
Amazing interview. Sucks that parts of the video had to get cut. I hope Ken does more interviews like this in the near future. The guy is a treasure and one of the most influential game developers of all time. The Bioshock series changed the way I look at videogames as a medium and the stories they can tell.
Congratulations Colin for getting Ken on here, and Ken, Judas is my most anticipated game right now. I wish you and your team all the best in these final stages of development.
Finally!! Yes!!!
That was amazing. I can’t wait to play JUDAS.
Was there a 3rd person on a ventilator on the call? I hear something sounding like wheezing.
They drop a nintendo podcast and then this in around 24 hours. That's hot.
Colin needs to play the System Shock remake, it's amazing, in some areas those original System Shock games are actually even better than Bioshock.
This man truly earned the 🐐 status
I really would like to know what Ken thinks about Atomic heart, which seems to be a love letter to Bioshock but has its own unique narrative, setting and direction in which the story goes off the plate near the end of the game. Wonder if he sees it as like a mere derivative or if it holds on its own. Personally, I think it's a member of the genre that holds its own very well, with streamlined gameplay that still feels like it might be a bioshock game. (more like bioshock infinite.. But what that game lacked was a proper melee gameplay choice, which I think it (AH) has, and it's good.
Bad baby, bad baby don’t squeeze the spider, don’t squeeze.
Will you release the full conversation once any sensitive information is no longer sensitive?
I wished you asked him more about Bioshock 2 and what he thought of it adding onto his Bioshock games. Perhaps, you could ask him during your Judas conversation.
ken levine is such a king. I'll purchase basically anything he creates. W
It's so great to see Colin geek out like this, Kevin is a legend. What a perfect interview man!
Crazy that you got an interview with Anderson Silva. Even crazier how you got him to do a Playstation podcast
If you keep giving us great content like this, then I'm going to have to upgrade to the 10 dollar tier!! I feel like I'm robbing you guys at this point!!!
Holy shit my man got Ken on the show
Great interview. First time really listening to Ken- very interesting. Not exactly humble, is he? He’s earned it for sure. Can’t wait for Judas.
Thank you so much for doing this. A dream interview to watch. The investment in you has always been worth it, but this is hitting another level for me personally. I applied to Rational Games years ago and wanted to be part of that journey.
Ken, you've made some of my absolute favorite games that I played during formative years. I appreciate you. Thanks for doing this interview
This was a great conversation
Master and apprentice. This was great!
1:13:08
Narrative Legos w/ Ken Levine
th-cam.com/video/58FWUkA8y2Q/w-d-xo.html
This podcast was riveting. Colin once again blows other media companies out of the water.
Legendary!! LSM has so much quality content! Thanks to all in the crew especially Micah
Never clicked on something so fast in my life.
Great stuff. Thanks Colin
Long Live Levine! 💪🏿🫡
He is a legend!!!!
Ken is great. But, I'm not sure how this 10 year dev cycle for 1 game will go, even if its a "small" team. I hope it turns out well.
Fantastic interview
I hope more and more people openly acknowledge the overblown influence that social media platforms hold over all sorts of industries and make it clear to their fellow creatives that the last people to whom they should pay any attention are terminally online nolifers. These people are a liability requiring constant babysitting and nothing more.
This was a great conversation. I'm ashamed to say I've not played Bioshock as I was too scared when I first tried it. I will definitely be giving it another shot though.
I didn't play bioshock until about 2016 always heard the praise . I sat down on a rainy sunday and ripped thru 1 and 2 and then infinite the next day i couldn't put it down . Bioshock is one of my favorite games of all time and series all time . Now my 15 year old is playing it and it still holds up 🙏🙌
Can't wait to play Judas.
I came into this with admiration for Ken the creative and left with the same admiration for Ken the human being. Thank you for such a well produced interview, Colin 🙏🏻
This is awesome! Is that PSVR 2 in the background a tease 👀
I'm curious if at a later point if some of the cut content could come out. After Judas releases.
Today's my birthday! Gonna celebrate by listening to this banger interview with the creator of one of my favorite games of all time.
Hope your day's been happy! (^^,)
Happy bday cousin 🎂
French guy okay with harvesting little girls in Bioshock? Sounds about right
Between this and the Rick Beato, Daniel Lanois interview I am happier than a pig in sh*t today!
Who?
I think Colin's lack of knowledge on System Shock 2 and Thief really hurt this interview, still great though
This was amazing!! What an incredible interview!! Thank you Colin and thank you Ken!!!
I listened to this a week ago as a Patron when I saw it pop up just before walking into a 2-hour "as the dad I have to sit around and wait for a kid" thing and absolutely loved it.
Totally going to watch it now to see the conversation play out with non-verbal cues. This was a FANTASTIC interview, and just humanized Ken and game development in general so well.
I hope to see Judas at the game awards again this year
Great talk, Ken Levine is one of the greats.
Super interesting interview/conversation. Thank you.
One for the ages
This was excellent.
Such an interesting discussion. Could listen to it all day. Will be there day 1 for the new game.
Wait.... (young) Ken wrote for a movie? Now I need to see it! :O Anyone know how to find it/what's it called? His IMDB doesn't show it :(
Whoah this is awesome. Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite are some of the greatest games ever. Ken Levine is one of the most brilliant and creative minds in the entire industry.
This is awesome. :)
Great interview! Only think I would add about storytelling- Bioshock tells its story through audiologs , but genious game Half Life 2 tells no less great one without even opening mouth of the main protagonist)
Great interview
Due to the fact that Infinity brought him a lot of suffering, he decided to let off steam on Elizabeth by killing her with a wrench. Why did the publishers allow this?
Insane.