Kahlers are criminally underrated as a trem system because of hack retrofits in the 80s giving them a bad rap. The best parts of being super easy to set up and adjust like a Strat with the stability and range of a Floyd Rose, while requiring the least of wood to be removed for the rout.
Id love a 24.75" scale w a Kahler, havent found one. Maybe I have to hack up a LP special I dont trust myself to hack up a carved top and make it sit level. Maybe an LTD EC 400 or 1000. They did use to make a 400 flat top.
Great explanations as always! Another cool trem system is the Duesenberg Les Trem. Very unique and fun to use, and the best part is you can add it to a Les Paul hard tail without having to alter your guitar at all. So cool.
Without a doubt best video about trem,s I’ve ever seen. The fender classic trem is by far the easiest & versatile with a wide range of sounds. Thanks for tips of how to float them a little. That was new to me. From there most all trem,s such as the ones on the epiphone, jazzmaster, & gretsch all have close to the same action. They will sound best with quarter bends but you can get decent half bends. No dive bombs ha! Then you come down to Floyd rose those designed like minded. With all the locking mechanisms they refuse to go outta tune. But as stated “ a pain in the ass” !!! To tune & change strings. Brilliantly done video. I solute you🫡
Not correct at 5:09. Many people misunderstand trem setup in this way. Adjusting the spring position with the claw _does not alter the effort required to move the arm._ it just repositions the bridge relative to the body. To make the trem "tighter", you need to either fit stronger springs, or more springs (and then adjust the claw so the bridge floats to your liking). The only exception to this would be if the springs were already just tight enough to pull the bridge flat to the body, but then the trem wouldn't be floating.
You probably already said this but I'm too dumb for understand it. But if it's a trem that lays flat against the body, then tightening the springs as much as possible will make it harder to use, the same as if you add another spring. But yes for the most part stiffer springs are what makes the most difference
@@georgecharleston2597 I believe that's correct, although somewhere in the back of my mind is Hooke's Law (I think), which someone cleverer than you and me put together could use to explain exactly what happens when you stretch a spring. Another factor, that I didn't mention, is string gauge: thicker strings tuned to pitch would exert more force than thinner ones and pull the bridge up too high, so the claw position would need to be altered to compensate.
Fkn A Dagan rock on! Duane Eddy and his Bigsby on 40 Miles of Bad Road album were the 1st whammy tunes I can remember Dad playing in the mid 70s over and over.
I build a guitar from a kit that has a locking tremolo system. The kit was modeled off the Jem style guitar. I can tell you it can be a pain to get it to work, especially the block on the posts, sometimes if they are coated it can stick causing you to go out of tune. Another issue is if the strings slip in the locking nut. Just have to work with it to get it to function, might have to replace the nut or force some wear on the posts and bridge.
Great video as always Totally agree about the maestro on the SG Have never used mine for the purpose it was designed for it just makes it look super cool and adds that we bit o extra bounce when your hitting them strings lol
EVH had a cool trick for a decked strat trem where you dive bomb and then flick off the bar to let the system slam back into its original place to get you back to tune (close enough at least) mid song Works well if your strat is set up proper
I bought an Ibanez RG550 second hand in 1991, and I always hated the trem, no matter how many times I fitted new bushes, the arm would always drop down! I had a Schaller lockmiester trem fitted to the guitar last year, and it's much better!
I bought a stets bar trem and fitted it to my les paul copy. No alterations needed to the instrument, just unscrew the bridge and tail piece and screw trem in place. The only thing is I had to file a few thou off the new bridge to lower the action but it works well.
I’ve had(as in enough experience to break and eventually change) Floyd Rose, Ibanez brand Floyd, Bigsby, and that regular Strat thing. I don’t even know why I’m watching this…. Perhaps for Dagan
Regarding Strat trems: to my ears, six-screw bridges make for better tone and maybe more sustain than two-post trems. That said, decent quality is important: I have a Squier CV 50s Strat, and its six-screw trem system is not as well made as proper Fender ones, or decent aftermarket trems. It's nowhere near as smooth as a good quality system, but it's what I'd expect on a budget instrument.
Most informative, charmingly presented - but I have no use, personally, for tremolos. Nothing against them, I'm just not really into making those noises come out of my guitar. And if I do want them, I play slide.
Dagan; you’d be doing a great favor for us old farts by reviewing the dreaded Washburn Wonderbar top-mount trem system. People either love them or passionately hate them. It deserves your expertise! Take care.
Hello Dagan great video as usual ! I usually play Gibsons with stop tail bridges but I saw your test of Kramer sm-1h so I took a shockwave purple like yours ! Now I'm totally into Floyd Rose Tremolo ! Can I ask You why missed kalher tremolo ? Thanks for this interesting video and see You soon !
The SG in particular has another side-benefit from having a Bigsby or a Maestro on there - it fixes the headstock dive that they're infamous for having.
I got a brass sustain block off of a 2 post floyde style strat bridge, with a nylon insurt whammy bar with separate bracket mount that doesn't contact the block, 2 post style saddles, amd 10 guage ernie ball steings "tied, or pinned style strung around the tuners,it's an ibanez grg170 type setup but after leveling the "blade" edge slightly and loosening the the screws to the correct tension, tuning, and stretching, I feel I have the same range as a floyde rose, with slightly less tuning stability, but I belive it's still better than any other system that's non locking truly, so if u don't wanna rout out your guitar, and cut a slot for a locking nut, and the cross your fingers and prey to God it's right and will work, I'd reccomend this setup I just described lol, cus I'll take having to re tune my guitar every few days or if playing long time after a few hours of jamming over routing and possibly ruining a guitar or paying for a very expencive one or for a cheap one to be routed by a pro, u can do what I described and after a week or so if done right with 10 guage or heaver steings it keeps tune very close if almost dam near the same as a floyde rose.
If you are a beginner considering buying your first guitar, and especially if it is going to be an inexpensive one, I would recommend staying away from tremolos, floyds, etc. and sticking with a hardtail bridge. Tuning instability in entry level guitars with tremolos can be a big hurdle for your learning; you may find yourself spending more time retuning and adjusting intonation than actually playing. Also, avoid Les Pauls. Same issue with tuning instability (despite being a fixed bridge; the reason here is the neck angle), plus easy to break the headstock. Just my two cents as somebody that 1) learnt to play with a cheap strat with a tremolo bridge, and 2) owns two Les Pauls. Do not make the mistakes I made, my friend.
Man I really wanna use the whammy bar in my ibanez grg170dx, I'm buying it soon but don't have much idea of the floating trem system. Any advice you got mate?
@@waterbottle515 Simply use the whammy bar as desired and check how much diving you can get away with while staying in tune. If the guitar stays in tune, dive away. If it doesn't, you can remove the bar and play without it. There are plenty of cool sounds you can get without the whammy bar. For example, have you tried pinch harmonics?
Dude just widen the nut slots at the back, lube it a little and done. Any 3 X 3 headstock has a higher break angle and the string is just getting caught on the nut, especially if you tune from above. Always tune from below pitch and give the strings a good bend. It's just stuck on the nut, nothing wrong with Les Pauls. Everyone used to do this but today no one does their own setup anymore and if you can afford a Les Paul you can afford having a proper setup. Mine rarely go out of tune and I use light gauge strings, 8s mostly.
It costs as much as a decent guitar these days. I have an Ibanez licensed one in my RG but I certainly wouldn't spend 500 bucks on a FR as a mod. Most other trems you can find them for 50-100 bucks. And if you don't have one it's a big job installing it. Bigsby or Vibrola can be bolted onto any guitar. Best to buy one that comes with a Floyd, you often get a much better price than aftermarket.
I take some issue with that whole "trems sound different" myth. If you fine-tune your touch, a Strat sounds just like a Jazzmaster or a Bigsby. Trems only sound different if you don't change your technique and change guitars. The only real playing difference between them is "dive ratio", the amount of pitch change per unit of vibrato arm movement. I bought a Duesenberg to learn how to get that Bigsby sound. Once I got the touch I was soon able to recreate it with a Strat.
Excellent review of vibratos. I’ve ordered locking tuners for my 2010 USA standard Strat. My GLPC reissue ‘57 BB has a Bigsby but that never goes out. Weird, huh?
I've never heard that having a more floating bridge on a Stratocaster is bad with a rounder radius fingerboard. Could somebody please elaborate? I've been having trouble getting my action low enough on my 61 Stratocaster and that may be why.
My experience : don't buy the floyd rose special and it will be better (cheap parts, not made to last) the fr 1000 is far superior the edge pro Ibanez has a big sustain but not fantastic for the intonation ( a fr is better, not so sensible, made to last more years) a vintage strat trem is nothing without locking tuners and a good nut a frx is one to try the trem of the G3t is not good at all for all the fr-edge you should change the sustain block because they don't do that now you know what to do :)
Bigsby's feels the best and are nice and subtle. Lyre maestro's looks the best with the tail piece (and are acceable if set up correctly) but a tail peice bigsby like a b7 with the pin reversed on a SG gives it a run visually for it's money (imho it this looks even better)! Everything else looks and feels awkward and a Floyd is just a monstrosity which is sometimes good but you have to be aware it's slightly distasteful when rocking it, for instance a les Paul is a beauty, and you have infact butchered by by installing a Rose. And yes Strats are better hard tail but Strats are overrated anyway, Teles are THEY classic fender and a Tele with a horseshoe Bisby infact has an air of class, and a 335 with a bigsby is another classic! All of they above is my reasoning for - Bigsby. It's a bigsby or no vibrato unit at all (with maybe the exception of a Mestro on an SG if no one will b7 it for you or if it just came with the lyre).
Kahlers are criminally underrated as a trem system because of hack retrofits in the 80s giving them a bad rap. The best parts of being super easy to set up and adjust like a Strat with the stability and range of a Floyd Rose, while requiring the least of wood to be removed for the rout.
Agreed!
Id love a 24.75" scale w a Kahler, havent found one. Maybe I have to hack up a LP special I dont trust myself to hack up a carved top and make it sit level. Maybe an LTD EC 400 or 1000. They did use to make a 400 flat top.
@@che2335 I have a lefty '85 Explorer with a Kahler that I love :)
Hello @@Kylora2112 I really love my Cherry Red Explorer too ! Les Pauls are born to be Kahler Trem ready to me ! They look awesome !
Firebird plus Kahler equals perfection in my eyes. Just the best of everything.
What’s your favourite tremolo?! 🤘 Dagan’s is of course the Floyd Rose!
Great explanations as always! Another cool trem system is the Duesenberg Les Trem. Very unique and fun to use, and the best part is you can add it to a Les Paul hard tail without having to alter your guitar at all. So cool.
That’s a fantastic trem 👌
Love the passion for music and instruments! Much love from Philly!!!
Without a doubt best video about trem,s I’ve ever seen. The fender classic trem is by far the easiest & versatile with a wide range of sounds. Thanks for tips of how to float them a little. That was new to me. From there most all trem,s such as the ones on the epiphone, jazzmaster, & gretsch all have close to the same action. They will sound best with quarter bends but you can get decent half bends. No dive bombs ha! Then you come down to Floyd rose those designed like minded. With all the locking mechanisms they refuse to go outta tune. But as stated “ a pain in the ass” !!! To tune & change strings. Brilliantly done video. I solute you🫡
Brilliant information showcasing the different tremolo systems for the uninitiated 🖐 Many thanks👍
Not correct at 5:09. Many people misunderstand trem setup in this way. Adjusting the spring position with the claw _does not alter the effort required to move the arm._ it just repositions the bridge relative to the body. To make the trem "tighter", you need to either fit stronger springs, or more springs (and then adjust the claw so the bridge floats to your liking). The only exception to this would be if the springs were already just tight enough to pull the bridge flat to the body, but then the trem wouldn't be floating.
You probably already said this but I'm too dumb for understand it. But if it's a trem that lays flat against the body, then tightening the springs as much as possible will make it harder to use, the same as if you add another spring. But yes for the most part stiffer springs are what makes the most difference
@@georgecharleston2597 I believe that's correct, although somewhere in the back of my mind is Hooke's Law (I think), which someone cleverer than you and me put together could use to explain exactly what happens when you stretch a spring. Another factor, that I didn't mention, is string gauge: thicker strings tuned to pitch would exert more force than thinner ones and pull the bridge up too high, so the claw position would need to be altered to compensate.
Fkn A Dagan rock on! Duane Eddy and his Bigsby on 40 Miles of Bad Road album were the 1st whammy tunes I can remember Dad playing in the mid 70s over and over.
I build a guitar from a kit that has a locking tremolo system. The kit was modeled off the Jem style guitar. I can tell you it can be a pain to get it to work, especially the block on the posts, sometimes if they are coated it can stick causing you to go out of tune. Another issue is if the strings slip in the locking nut. Just have to work with it to get it to function, might have to replace the nut or force some wear on the posts and bridge.
Thanks for all the demoes and videoes you guys make! Great quality, and educational
🤘🤘🤘
Great video as always
Totally agree about the maestro on the SG Have never used mine for the purpose it was designed for it just makes it look super cool and adds that we bit o extra bounce when your hitting them strings lol
Super helpful! Thank you, Dagan! 🤘🏻🎸
Great guide and analysis!
Tremolos are very interesting tools to obtain different sounds on the guitar and in musical interpretation.👍
Just the perfect topic I needed right now 👍
EVH had a cool trick for a decked strat trem where you dive bomb and then flick off the bar to let the system slam back into its original place to get you back to tune (close enough at least) mid song
Works well if your strat is set up proper
👌👌👌
Floyd Roses are good for keeping papers from flying off a desk😮
I bought an Ibanez RG550 second hand in 1991, and I always hated the trem, no matter how many times I fitted new bushes, the arm would always drop down! I had a Schaller lockmiester trem fitted to the guitar last year, and it's much better!
Just use plumbers tape👍
You taught me how to restring a Floyd. My first guitar already had a Floyd on it, and I found your tutorial really easy!
Nice video, helped a lot
It came out 7 minutes ago how fast are you watching it
@@thesteamycreamofdualjabbar6486 just came for 2 floyd roses part, that's all
@@aleksastefanovic.4451 fair enough I thought you were time travelling for a sec
I bought a stets bar trem and fitted it to my les paul copy. No alterations needed to the instrument, just unscrew the bridge and tail piece and screw trem in place. The only thing is I had to file a few thou off the new bridge to lower the action but it works well.
You forgot the best Tremelo system of all ... The Virtual Jeff... It's a permanent part of my rig.
These videos are really helpful for us beginners!
You rock Dagan
Would have liked to see steinberger trems, they're a bit different too lol
great video !!
Hard Tail is LIFE
I’ve had(as in enough experience to break and eventually change) Floyd Rose, Ibanez brand Floyd, Bigsby, and that regular Strat thing. I don’t even know why I’m watching this…. Perhaps for Dagan
Regarding Strat trems: to my ears, six-screw bridges make for better tone and maybe more sustain than two-post trems. That said, decent quality is important: I have a Squier CV 50s Strat, and its six-screw trem system is not as well made as proper Fender ones, or decent aftermarket trems. It's nowhere near as smooth as a good quality system, but it's what I'd expect on a budget instrument.
Where's the Vega trem? The Mustang trem?
Most informative, charmingly presented - but I have no use, personally, for tremolos. Nothing against them, I'm just not really into making those noises come out of my guitar. And if I do want them, I play slide.
Dagan; you’d be doing a great favor for us old farts by reviewing the dreaded Washburn Wonderbar top-mount trem system. People either love them or passionately hate them. It deserves your expertise!
Take care.
My EVH-Wolfgang Special has a killer Floyd-Rose. It can slice an apple and many fruits in tiny little pieces !
Playing with out a Floyd is like racing a dirt bike without a front brake. Ya don't know how much you use it till you don't have it.
Hello Dagan great video as usual ! I usually play Gibsons with stop tail bridges but I saw your test of Kramer sm-1h so I took a shockwave purple like yours ! Now I'm totally into Floyd Rose Tremolo ! Can I ask You why missed kalher tremolo ? Thanks for this interesting video and see You soon !
The SG in particular has another side-benefit from having a Bigsby or a Maestro on there - it fixes the headstock dive that they're infamous for having.
Play some Jeff Beck
That roasted maple on cream looks FK’N tasty!!!
The auto detuner
Not if you’re careful with you guitar setup 👌
Dagans so handsome 😍
I got a brass sustain block off of a 2 post floyde style strat bridge, with a nylon insurt whammy bar with separate bracket mount that doesn't contact the block, 2 post style saddles, amd 10 guage ernie ball steings "tied, or pinned style strung around the tuners,it's an ibanez grg170 type setup but after leveling the "blade" edge slightly and loosening the the screws to the correct tension, tuning, and stretching, I feel I have the same range as a floyde rose, with slightly less tuning stability, but I belive it's still better than any other system that's non locking truly, so if u don't wanna rout out your guitar, and cut a slot for a locking nut, and the cross your fingers and prey to God it's right and will work, I'd reccomend this setup I just described lol, cus I'll take having to re tune my guitar every few days or if playing long time after a few hours of jamming over routing and possibly ruining a guitar or paying for a very expencive one or for a cheap one to be routed by a pro, u can do what I described and after a week or so if done right with 10 guage or heaver steings it keeps tune very close if almost dam near the same as a floyde rose.
No demo of a Kahler? Come on man.
If you are a beginner considering buying your first guitar, and especially if it is going to be an inexpensive one, I would recommend staying away from tremolos, floyds, etc. and sticking with a hardtail bridge.
Tuning instability in entry level guitars with tremolos can be a big hurdle for your learning; you may find yourself spending more time retuning and adjusting intonation than actually playing.
Also, avoid Les Pauls. Same issue with tuning instability (despite being a fixed bridge; the reason here is the neck angle), plus easy to break the headstock.
Just my two cents as somebody that 1) learnt to play with a cheap strat with a tremolo bridge, and 2) owns two Les Pauls. Do not make the mistakes I made, my friend.
Man I really wanna use the whammy bar in my ibanez grg170dx, I'm buying it soon but don't have much idea of the floating trem system. Any advice you got mate?
@@waterbottle515 Simply use the whammy bar as desired and check how much diving you can get away with while staying in tune.
If the guitar stays in tune, dive away. If it doesn't, you can remove the bar and play without it.
There are plenty of cool sounds you can get without the whammy bar. For example, have you tried pinch harmonics?
Dude just widen the nut slots at the back, lube it a little and done. Any 3 X 3 headstock has a higher break angle and the string is just getting caught on the nut, especially if you tune from above. Always tune from below pitch and give the strings a good bend. It's just stuck on the nut, nothing wrong with Les Pauls. Everyone used to do this but today no one does their own setup anymore and if you can afford a Les Paul you can afford having a proper setup. Mine rarely go out of tune and I use light gauge strings, 8s mostly.
Idk why people stay away from floyd rose , it’s literally easiest thing to maintain and we all know the crazy things the floyd rose delivers
It costs as much as a decent guitar these days. I have an Ibanez licensed one in my RG but I certainly wouldn't spend 500 bucks on a FR as a mod. Most other trems you can find them for 50-100 bucks. And if you don't have one it's a big job installing it. Bigsby or Vibrola can be bolted onto any guitar. Best to buy one that comes with a Floyd, you often get a much better price than aftermarket.
I take some issue with that whole "trems sound different" myth. If you fine-tune your touch, a Strat sounds just like a Jazzmaster or a Bigsby. Trems only sound different if you don't change your technique and change guitars. The only real playing difference between them is "dive ratio", the amount of pitch change per unit of vibrato arm movement. I bought a Duesenberg to learn how to get that Bigsby sound. Once I got the touch I was soon able to recreate it with a Strat.
Excellent review of vibratos. I’ve ordered locking tuners for my 2010 USA standard Strat. My GLPC reissue ‘57 BB has a Bigsby but that never goes out. Weird, huh?
Why is the Floyd Rose at 14:48 angled and not flush with the body?
I've never heard that having a more floating bridge on a Stratocaster is bad with a rounder radius fingerboard. Could somebody please elaborate? I've been having trouble getting my action low enough on my 61 Stratocaster and that may be why.
“I like to use mine as a crutch” 😂😂😂😂
Did someone maybe have a wee cheeky drink or 2 before filming ;)
My experience : don't buy the floyd rose special and it will be better (cheap parts, not made to last)
the fr 1000 is far superior
the edge pro Ibanez has a big sustain but not fantastic for the intonation ( a fr is better, not so sensible, made to last more years)
a vintage strat trem is nothing without locking tuners and a good nut
a frx is one to try
the trem of the G3t is not good at all
for all the fr-edge you should change the sustain block
because they don't do that
now you know what to do :)
Bigsby's feels the best and are nice and subtle. Lyre maestro's looks the best with the tail piece (and are acceable if set up correctly) but a tail peice bigsby like a b7 with the pin reversed on a SG gives it a run visually for it's money (imho it this looks even better)! Everything else looks and feels awkward and a Floyd is just a monstrosity which is sometimes good but you have to be aware it's slightly distasteful when rocking it, for instance a les Paul is a beauty, and you have infact butchered by by installing a Rose. And yes Strats are better hard tail but Strats are overrated anyway, Teles are THEY classic fender and a Tele with a horseshoe Bisby infact has an air of class, and a 335 with a bigsby is another classic! All of they above is my reasoning for - Bigsby. It's a bigsby or no vibrato unit at all (with maybe the exception of a Mestro on an SG if no one will b7 it for you or if it just came with the lyre).
09:28 ok your tuning is off dude !
There's no point to have a recessed tremolo, it never stays in tune. It stays for just ~3 songs and then again.