He really doesn't know how a traditional city roof works. At 3.14 he says they are connected to a ridge beam or or steel. They are not, they are connected to a ridge plate not a ridge beam. Very different systems
@@tombley5760 No, we just invited them down to have a look around. There are obvious benefits for both parties (we get a bit of exposure, they get some video content), but no exchange of funds were made.
I've just made a comment to Roger about me meaning to visit you! I'm a structural engineer in Abergavenny and would love to visit your factory and see what you do. I'm impressed with the modern tools and methods that you use.
We used these Guys a few weeks ago for our project we gave them the drawings and they designed the roof required from there..very impressed with their service..A cut roof is what we originally wanted but we got sick of pretenders coming to quote pulling numbers out of fresh air and leaving us very uneasy that we could trust them..Not all Carpenters are Carpenters.
When working in timberframe design I too had thoughts on projecting the CAD frame designs onto a benchtop, but through a video projector, so I am pleased to see that an even better laser system has been developed. Posijoists are a real solution to floor spans and inclusion of services. During my working time the main criticisms and problems reported were due to damages in transit or failures to follow installation procedures on site (i.e. missing out strongbacks). The truss design software includes specific questions of loading factors that were within the realm of structural engineers to the extent that sizing and placement of gang nail plates are defined (as seen in the laser projection). If our house-building industry is to meet current demand more components will need to be factory made.
That’s a shame, you guys inspired me to commit to helping build my own extension. Nothing but positive and good workmanship I’ve seen on your videos. I loved the how to build an extension with James that’s what inspired me do go ahead with our extension.
I've been meaning to visit that factory as I am very impressed with the very modern machinery that they use as opposed to a lot of construction factories - say steel fabricators who use very old and outdated machinery. And it's in a very modern building. Interestingly their website says they started out in timber frame and then changed to trusses and posi-joists. I'm wondering if you'd be interested in doing a video together to talk about roof trusses, also that I could explain how they work, how efficient they are, and how to brace them and what happens if you don't.
No nonsense explanation on all things trusses , that bloke knew his stuff , I wouldn't ask him what time it is , he would probably tell the bloke that made the watch , where he live , how many kids he has etc etc 🙂joking apart , great information. Keep them coming, Rog 👍
The thing is that there are many options, and they can be used in the same space. A cut roof is also a truss, just different. In production price and profit are managed at scale. Also the lower skilled a competent workforce, the better. Most sites will have lifting machinery for loads or safety. But if working at a different scale, depending on bureaucracy, it is often cheaper and better to use cut products. The extreme case is a timber frame building. One of my two houses in NA is an 18th century 2 story farm house, timber framed. In a hurricane (we don't get the roof ripping end of these storms) it is almost quiet, and nothing moves. It is the extreme end of the cut frame building. With the rafters spaced 8 feet apart. The wood was cut from the surrounding property. With band mills, some people still do that today.
Great video as always. Really useful. My construction drawing submission to building regs only came back with three questions having based so much of the design around these videos. One missing item was the hip valley construction detail. Have you ever made a video covering the valley construction, particularly taking a new hip off an older roof slope?
I remember a truss factory opening next door to a sawmill near me in the mid 1970s. It was so successful that a big company came along and took it over.
I'm building a garden building at my place right now. I'm hoping to buy some trusses from this company early next year. they look very good and fair price too. I'm also planning to install a couple of "Sun Tunnels" - like a velux window for when you have ceilings and no usable loft space. very cool! window in the roof - metal tube to window in the ceiling.
Sun Tunnels are great, we used one to turn our gloomy windowless stairwell into a bright sunny space. The sun tunnel needs much less work to make the inside neat, but does need access to the outside of the roof, whereas you can do a velux window from inside.
Trusses are great. The big advantage of a laid roof is that you can do it without cranes to place the trusses on the jobsite. You can put it up faster, overall, and the end result is more versatile if there will ever be future remodeling, or storage, or living space is required. At least where we build, there is no need for special engineering. We added a small addition, something like 8x16. All I did was drive to the reno center and load up about 12 2x8s or 2x10. Cut them with a saw, and nail them up to ledgers and the walls. A few hours work. And the same would be true of larger structures. It is ironic that the stronger methodology, trusses, requires engineering, while you can just build to standard features with no engineering at all with a laid roof. The disadvantages are that the wood for a hand laid rood is larger sectioned, and usually more expensive and requires higher quality wood (the job is not necessarily more expensive), and you do end up with nice wood. People will even feature it. It also takes more skill to do a laid roof of any complexity. complex roof shapes have become popular over the last 20 years, and larger roofs. All you need with trusses is just a truss every 16 inches, or whatever, and all those shapes are developed. The irony is they are often meaningless, or can't be used. They may be more for show. However, a good job would have some usable space.
Had Posi Joists specified at 600mm centres and assured it would be fine, but my “old school” head couldn’t accept it and asked for it to be spec’d at 400mm centres so I could sleep at night 😂 Two floors, over 5.5mtr square, one intermediate brace, no bounce at all, highly recommend
This is an issue with the spacing, not the joists, just so anyone not familiar will realize the issue. Also, flooring is stiffer to the cube of the material thickness, and also relative to the orientation. So an 18mm material is 3.3 time stiffer than 12mm. If one is dealing with the larger spacing (and 600mm is really wide) Span is also a 3rd order thing. So basically, you are widening the spacing, you need to consider that your flooring should be equally thicker. I don't know UK rules, but if 18mm worked across a span of 400mm, you would need 27 mm for the 600 span. And if one ended up instally material that was 24mm that might be marginal, if it was installed on the wrong 90, it might be very saggy. These are just rules of thumb, not engineering advice.
I read some years ago that using attic trusses only added around £1,500 to a new build (instead of standard trusses). They could then be expanded into much more easily at some future point. I wonder why big developers weren't obliged to use them by law.
The average UK 3-bed home would amount to roughly £1500 excluding VAT and delivery if opting for standard trusses. For the same job using attic trusses you'd pay roughly 3x the price, so £4500 excluding VAT and delivery. Seems like a bit of a no-brainer to pay the extra in our opinion.
The thing is that there are many options, and they can be used in the same space. A cut roof is also a truss, just different. In production price and profit are managed at scale. Also the lower skilled a competent workforce, the better. Most sites will have lifting machinery for loads or safety. But if working at a different scale, depending on bureaucracy, it is often cheaper and better to use cut products. The extreme case is a timber frame building. One of my two houses in NA is an 18th century 2 story farm house, timber framed. In a hurricane (we don't get the roof ripping end of these storms) it is almost quiet, and nothing moves. It is the extreme end of the cut frame building. With the rafters spaced 8 feet apart. The wood was cut from the surrounding property. With band mills, some people still do that today.
We have lots of things coming up.Very often we film some and the builders get so much unwarrented abuse in the comments that they ask us not to film any more. It is difficult to find people who are happy to be filmed
You would think this would reduce the price of housebuilding. Prefabricated using cheaper low skilled labour. If only, houses are more expensive than ever.
@@James-xb7eg So why not just do away with them so none of this retro-fitting is necessary....Bet if someone buying a new house was told it would be x-hundreds/thousands more to have a usable attic from the start they'd go with it rather than having to pay a specialist down the line plus a structural engineer to do the calcs and design, and would that be something building control would want to stick their nose into ??
@@SkillBuilder Not round our way in Jockland- every new build still has this. Neighbours house is a tiny 2 bedroom (second like a box room) but the attic could have been converted so easily now they have started their family had it not been cheapskated with these nasty trusses!!! A local joiner I know said it is easier to rip off the roof and start again!
Hi, we offer (and often recommend!) the use of attic trusses to utilise loft space. These don't require retro-fitting or modifying and can be installed just as quickly as standard trusses. Granted, they cost more, but well worth it in our opinion.
Very basic. UK still learning about Truss building. Long way to go. You only get part of the roof, for a start. In Australia the entire roof structure is complete, however complicated. Hips, valleys, everything is in the kit. Noggs, gable ladders, all cut and supplied. Plus an ancillary pack of all straps and fittings. Those floor joists came in briefly, and went out. Never see them now. All went to I beams. Truss roofs are quick assembly on site, and use less timber. Cost advantages. But that is their only asset, other than big spans. Pitched roofs, which you hardly ever see in Oz, have so many things going for them. But today speed and cost win, so Truss roofs become the norm. UK will get there. But baby steps at the moment. I am a Carpenter builder and also used to design and build trusses, joists and wall frames. Giving me 43 years of experience in this field.
It is amusing and sad in equal proportions to see you reduce this video to some kind of jingoistic war game which nobody but you is playing. Quite frankly it is boring Oz versus the U.K. We have used trusses in the U.K for as long as anyone but there are people who have been born since you were gazing at your navel and they need the information that you seemingly got in your mother's milk.
@@SkillBuilder Not sure who this is but can't you handle the truth. I am born and bred English. Worked as a Carpenter builder in the UK for nearly 20 years. Hardly ever did a Truss roof. Mostly cut and pitch. The few Truss roofs I did the quality of the trusses was poor. And all you got was Standards and a box of bits. Then I moved to Oz. Pretty much all trusses, and you get everything. Over the last 20 odd years I have put up a lot of trusses. But I also still watch a lot of English building, being English. And even in recent TH-cam videos, the guys get Standards and a box of bits. Cut your own hips, valley's etc. To me this defeats the object of trusses. And I have had other English Carpenters reply to my comments saying they wish they could get the full kit in the UK. Why do half and half. The machinery yo showed in the Truss plant I was using over 20 years ago. So simply I am saying it is not new. And the UK has a long way to go to catch up with Oz or US. Now if we talk plumbing or electrics. Australia is probably 20 years behind you. I simply state the truth given I have experienced both sides. And if that offends you, get a life.
The argument it uses less timber is almost a non point when you consider in order to do one small thing it robs you of a loft for storage or future conversion. And by the standard of his argument you may as well build a shelter out of twigs and leaves but instead we choose to build houses with thousands of materials because it’s consumes more material but it creates a better home. Cant beat a highly skilled carpenter cutting in a pitched roof. As our population spirals out of control loft conversions are a fantastic and incredibly cost efficient way to accommodate without taking land mass. Truss roofs may have their place somewhere but not for housing in my opinion.
Attic trusses are available for this reason, providing a loft space for storage, a bedroom, bathroom or whatever you fancy. Additionally, standard trusses can often be converted to allow a habitable loft space if someone has purchased a new build, for example, where they're common.
That guy should be a politician.....he speaks clearly, accurately with detail and no BS. Outstanding knowledge.
@@beijingbond 🙏
Maybe he's related to Liz Truss.
No! Politicians only lie. Politicians don’t know what they’re talking about. Politicians couldn’t organize a piss up in brewery.
He really doesn't know how a traditional city roof works. At 3.14 he says they are connected to a ridge beam or or steel. They are not, they are connected to a ridge plate not a ridge beam. Very different systems
Its so nice to see someone giving correct answers and explanations. Good thing is politicians are not engineers cause engineering would die
Much appreciated!
Thanks for stopping by 🤝
Was this a paid promotion?
@@tombley5760 No, we just invited them down to have a look around. There are obvious benefits for both parties (we get a bit of exposure, they get some video content), but no exchange of funds were made.
I've just made a comment to Roger about me meaning to visit you! I'm a structural engineer in Abergavenny and would love to visit your factory and see what you do. I'm impressed with the modern tools and methods that you use.
@@johncranna9427 Hi John, more than welcome to visit us. Let us know when you fancy popping over and we'll get the kettle on.
An answer for every question instantly, so refreshing.
That’s what you call a prepped interview
@@mclogged2280 To be fair to Ben he wasn't pre-aware of the questions they were going to ask, he's just a bit of an oracle
We used these Guys a few weeks ago for our project we gave them the drawings and they designed the roof required from there..very impressed with their service..A cut roof is what we originally wanted but we got sick of pretenders coming to quote pulling numbers out of fresh air and leaving us very uneasy that we could trust them..Not all Carpenters are Carpenters.
@@suzylawrence6 Thank you 🙏
When working in timberframe design I too had thoughts on projecting the CAD frame designs onto a benchtop, but through a video projector, so I am pleased to see that an even better laser system has been developed. Posijoists are a real solution to floor spans and inclusion of services. During my working time the main criticisms and problems reported were due to damages in transit or failures to follow installation procedures on site (i.e. missing out strongbacks). The truss design software includes specific questions of loading factors that were within the realm of structural engineers to the extent that sizing and placement of gang nail plates are defined (as seen in the laser projection). If our house-building industry is to meet current demand more components will need to be factory made.
I do love this channel 👍
This channel loves you.
That’s a shame, you guys inspired me to commit to helping build my own extension. Nothing but positive and good workmanship I’ve seen on your videos. I loved the how to build an extension with James that’s what inspired me do go ahead with our extension.
Go for it!
Great info. For someone who's wishing to install their own posi joists
Trusses revolutionised the construction industry, unbelievable value and no more sagging roofs.
I've been meaning to visit that factory as I am very impressed with the very modern machinery that they use as opposed to a lot of construction factories - say steel fabricators who use very old and outdated machinery. And it's in a very modern building. Interestingly their website says they started out in timber frame and then changed to trusses and posi-joists.
I'm wondering if you'd be interested in doing a video together to talk about roof trusses, also that I could explain how they work, how efficient they are, and how to brace them and what happens if you don't.
No nonsense explanation on all things trusses , that bloke knew his stuff , I wouldn't ask him what time it is , he would probably tell the bloke that made the watch , where he live , how many kids he has etc etc 🙂joking apart , great information. Keep them coming, Rog 👍
The thing is that there are many options, and they can be used in the same space. A cut roof is also a truss, just different. In production price and profit are managed at scale. Also the lower skilled a competent workforce, the better. Most sites will have lifting machinery for loads or safety.
But if working at a different scale, depending on bureaucracy, it is often cheaper and better to use cut products. The extreme case is a timber frame building. One of my two houses in NA is an 18th century 2 story farm house, timber framed. In a hurricane (we don't get the roof ripping end of these storms) it is almost quiet, and nothing moves. It is the extreme end of the cut frame building. With the rafters spaced 8 feet apart. The wood was cut from the surrounding property. With band mills, some people still do that today.
Yes thoroughly enjoyed this one.
More like this please chaps 🤌🏾🧱👍🏽
Will do!!
Great video as always. Really useful. My construction drawing submission to building regs only came back with three questions having based so much of the design around these videos. One missing item was the hip valley construction detail. Have you ever made a video covering the valley construction, particularly taking a new hip off an older roof slope?
This man knows his stuff. Every answer right there. Great interview, thanks lads!
Much appreciated.
I remember a truss factory opening next door to a sawmill near me in the mid 1970s. It was so successful that a big company came along and took it over.
I'm building a garden building at my place right now. I'm hoping to buy some trusses from this company early next year. they look very good and fair price too. I'm also planning to install a couple of "Sun Tunnels" - like a velux window for when you have ceilings and no usable loft space. very cool! window in the roof - metal tube to window in the ceiling.
Sun Tunnels are great, we used one to turn our gloomy windowless stairwell into a bright sunny space. The sun tunnel needs much less work to make the inside neat, but does need access to the outside of the roof, whereas you can do a velux window from inside.
@@gaugeonesteam Look forward to working with you!
Great video Roger. Appreciated.
Trusses are great. The big advantage of a laid roof is that you can do it without cranes to place the trusses on the jobsite. You can put it up faster, overall, and the end result is more versatile if there will ever be future remodeling, or storage, or living space is required. At least where we build, there is no need for special engineering. We added a small addition, something like 8x16. All I did was drive to the reno center and load up about 12 2x8s or 2x10. Cut them with a saw, and nail them up to ledgers and the walls. A few hours work. And the same would be true of larger structures. It is ironic that the stronger methodology, trusses, requires engineering, while you can just build to standard features with no engineering at all with a laid roof.
The disadvantages are that the wood for a hand laid rood is larger sectioned, and usually more expensive and requires higher quality wood (the job is not necessarily more expensive), and you do end up with nice wood. People will even feature it. It also takes more skill to do a laid roof of any complexity. complex roof shapes have become popular over the last 20 years, and larger roofs. All you need with trusses is just a truss every 16 inches, or whatever, and all those shapes are developed. The irony is they are often meaningless, or can't be used. They may be more for show. However, a good job would have some usable space.
Had Posi Joists specified at 600mm centres and assured it would be fine, but my “old school” head couldn’t accept it and asked for it to be spec’d at 400mm centres so I could sleep at night 😂 Two floors, over 5.5mtr square, one intermediate brace, no bounce at all, highly recommend
I agree with you, 600 is too much.
This is an issue with the spacing, not the joists, just so anyone not familiar will realize the issue. Also, flooring is stiffer to the cube of the material thickness, and also relative to the orientation. So an 18mm material is 3.3 time stiffer than 12mm. If one is dealing with the larger spacing (and 600mm is really wide) Span is also a 3rd order thing. So basically, you are widening the spacing, you need to consider that your flooring should be equally thicker. I don't know UK rules, but if 18mm worked across a span of 400mm, you would need 27 mm for the 600 span. And if one ended up instally material that was 24mm that might be marginal, if it was installed on the wrong 90, it might be very saggy.
These are just rules of thumb, not engineering advice.
Very interesting 👍
There used to be a black diamonds which appear every 19 3/16”(486mm) on tape measures are for spacing I-beam “timbers.”
I missed that blokes name but he sure knew his stuff! Very refreshing!
Ben. He does indeed!
Where does the wood come from? That is the cleanest stock I have ever seen in a similar application.
Hi, most is from a Swedish company called Vida.
Nothing beats a nice hand cut roof , it beats these crap trusses all day long .
This is amazing
I read some years ago that using attic trusses only added around £1,500 to a new build (instead of standard trusses). They could then be expanded into much more easily at some future point. I wonder why big developers weren't obliged to use them by law.
The average UK 3-bed home would amount to roughly £1500 excluding VAT and delivery if opting for standard trusses. For the same job using attic trusses you'd pay roughly 3x the price, so £4500 excluding VAT and delivery. Seems like a bit of a no-brainer to pay the extra in our opinion.
The bottom line is the Joist and Truss use less wood to provide the same result and they are easier to manage To provide greater building options !
The thing is that there are many options, and they can be used in the same space. A cut roof is also a truss, just different. In production price and profit are managed at scale. Also the lower skilled a competent workforce, the better. Most sites will have lifting machinery for loads or safety.
But if working at a different scale, depending on bureaucracy, it is often cheaper and better to use cut products. The extreme case is a timber frame building. One of my two houses in NA is an 18th century 2 story farm house, timber framed. In a hurricane (we don't get the roof ripping end of these storms) it is almost quiet, and nothing moves. It is the extreme end of the cut frame building. With the rafters spaced 8 feet apart. The wood was cut from the surrounding property. With band mills, some people still do that today.
Didn't expect to see Bono working in a truss manufacturers. Good on him 👏🏻
jeez I misread the headline . I thought it said the surprising benefits of Liz Truss. I was very worried for a moment
When's a new building series coming to the channel?
We have lots of things coming up.Very often we film some and the builders get so much unwarrented abuse in the comments that they ask us not to film any more. It is difficult to find people who are happy to be filmed
How far can a longhorn beetle travel to find untreated wood joists to feast on?
apparently it doesn't want to leave Surrey
Looks a bit like Robin that chap 😂
yes a younger version of Clevett
You would think this would reduce the price of housebuilding. Prefabricated using cheaper low skilled labour. If only, houses are more expensive than ever.
Clevett 2.0
Can't imagine Dan or Robin Clevett using these.
Dan has fitted loads of them. Carpentry is a job and you build what is on the drawing.
I think Robin would have something to say about this video.
But not everyone can get Robin to turn out for their job!
TH-cam has been ruined by adverts
Adblock Plus and Unhook - Chrome extensions - will eliminate most of the adverts
Boo, give me a hand cut roof any day.
She was a crap prime minister I’m glad you’ve found a use for her.
I love the way that they completely screw up any potential for utilising the loft space as another room....
No they don’t, most loft conversion specialists can easily convert a loft with trusses simply by strengthening the rafters
You can get attic trusses. Most modern homes are built with habitable roof spaces created by trusses.
@@James-xb7eg So why not just do away with them so none of this retro-fitting is necessary....Bet if someone buying a new house was told it would be x-hundreds/thousands more to have a usable attic from the start they'd go with it rather than having to pay a specialist down the line plus a structural engineer to do the calcs and design, and would that be something building control would want to stick their nose into ??
@@SkillBuilder Not round our way in Jockland- every new build still has this. Neighbours house is a tiny 2 bedroom (second like a box room) but the attic could have been converted so easily now they have started their family had it not been cheapskated with these nasty trusses!!! A local joiner I know said it is easier to rip off the roof and start again!
Hi, we offer (and often recommend!) the use of attic trusses to utilise loft space. These don't require retro-fitting or modifying and can be installed just as quickly as standard trusses. Granted, they cost more, but well worth it in our opinion.
HEREFORD
I have found the quality and accuracy of trusses over the last five years to be very poor, cut roof all the way 😁
They're very cheap and very quick delivery compared to traditional.
Very basic. UK still learning about Truss building. Long way to go. You only get part of the roof, for a start. In Australia the entire roof structure is complete, however complicated. Hips, valleys, everything is in the kit. Noggs, gable ladders, all cut and supplied. Plus an ancillary pack of all straps and fittings. Those floor joists came in briefly, and went out. Never see them now. All went to I beams. Truss roofs are quick assembly on site, and use less timber. Cost advantages. But that is their only asset, other than big spans. Pitched roofs, which you hardly ever see in Oz, have so many things going for them. But today speed and cost win, so Truss roofs become the norm. UK will get there. But baby steps at the moment. I am a Carpenter builder and also used to design and build trusses, joists and wall frames. Giving me 43 years of experience in this field.
It is amusing and sad in equal proportions to see you reduce this video to some kind of jingoistic war game which nobody but you is playing. Quite frankly it is boring Oz versus the U.K.
We have used trusses in the U.K for as long as anyone but there are people who have been born since you were gazing at your navel and they need the information that you seemingly got in your mother's milk.
@@SkillBuilder Not sure who this is but can't you handle the truth. I am born and bred English. Worked as a Carpenter builder in the UK for nearly 20 years. Hardly ever did a Truss roof. Mostly cut and pitch. The few Truss roofs I did the quality of the trusses was poor. And all you got was Standards and a box of bits. Then I moved to Oz. Pretty much all trusses, and you get everything. Over the last 20 odd years I have put up a lot of trusses. But I also still watch a lot of English building, being English. And even in recent TH-cam videos, the guys get Standards and a box of bits. Cut your own hips, valley's etc. To me this defeats the object of trusses. And I have had other English Carpenters reply to my comments saying they wish they could get the full kit in the UK. Why do half and half. The machinery yo showed in the Truss plant I was using over 20 years ago. So simply I am saying it is not new. And the UK has a long way to go to catch up with Oz or US. Now if we talk plumbing or electrics. Australia is probably 20 years behind you. I simply state the truth given I have experienced both sides. And if that offends you, get a life.
1st
Ohh I am first to see
There are none. #purlins4life
He either needs a new razor or better glasses..
Scum comment.
Where’s that laser coming from! 😂🫣 nice one Roger.
The argument it uses less timber is almost a non point when you consider in order to do one small thing it robs you of a loft for storage or future conversion. And by the standard of his argument you may as well build a shelter out of twigs and leaves but instead we choose to build houses with thousands of materials because it’s consumes more material but it creates a better home. Cant beat a highly skilled carpenter cutting in a pitched roof. As our population spirals out of control loft conversions are a fantastic and incredibly cost efficient way to accommodate without taking land mass. Truss roofs may have their place somewhere but not for housing in my opinion.
Attic trusses are available for this reason, providing a loft space for storage, a bedroom, bathroom or whatever you fancy. Additionally, standard trusses can often be converted to allow a habitable loft space if someone has purchased a new build, for example, where they're common.
All these guys pretend they are SAS down the pub.
Yes I'm sure all the SAS talk about is trusses. The navy are more into their joists.