I also got pretty fed up with how cheaply made most furniture was and how expensive quality furniture was. $15k later I have a basement wood shop, nice custom furniture, and have spent countless nights lying in bed thinking of how to overcomplicate my next build. Worth it!
Preach it, Brother! I grew up in a home building family and this 'builders grade' makes the real stuff our family uses look especially good. In my home, I cannot tell you how many comments I receive when folks enter through our first interior door. The feel of a real, solid wood door is so pleasant & comforting and the sound of a well hung door latching smoothly is music to my ears.
This type of content inspired me to rip out my mdf kitchen cabinets and to make my own custom birch plywood cabinets. As soon as I ripped out the first mdf cabinet and saw how cheaply built it was I had zero regrets of taking that route.
Ironically, I just finished replacing my last door in my forever remodel. A good door, should make a thud, not just shut. So now, between you and Finish Carpentry tv, my chunky trim is never going to be finished. Is ok though, my wife has been a good sport about the whole thing. Thank you. There is just something satisfying about two color stain grade trim and doors.
This channel is such a gem. I'm pretty sure my front door is the same quality as that $60 door 😵💫I knew I wanted something more secure, but I didn't realize quite how crappy the doors can be here. I lived in eastern europe for 6 years, and my front door had a 5 locking system (3 on the side, one top, and one bottom) and it was SOLID. I don't know what material was it was made out of, but no one is getting through that thing. *That's" the type of door I'm looking to get here.
Great Vid! Would love to see a video from you walking through a new semi luxury home with materials and techniques explained, and walking through an old home built with craftsman who cared, and compare and contrast the two.
It's so disappointing to see the cheapening of everyday goods and materials. You can't go to a store and buy a door made of wood or a shirt made of cotton. Those are now considered connoisseur level materials that you have to seek out boutique purveyors to obtain. People need to watch educators like you who spread awareness of this deterioration so we can bring back quality.
It's all good.... I can't afford the gas to go go buy the overpriced cheap garbage anyways, I mean not just doors.... $40.00 for a sheet of 1/2" OSB!!!???? $100.00 for a spool of #12 wire!!???? I feel like it's making the middle class poor... sry for the rant, it all frustrates me
Thank you! I had to push to get even solid-core doors in our build and I felt like I was taking crazy pills that other people just *didn't care* and when the builder brought and installed hollow-core (by accident, they fixed it) other people *didn't notice*. It's as if the value of quality materials and craftsmanship has just never occurred to some people. Real wood doors weren't even offered.
Good for you. Thank you for fighting for the good. Its wrong that builders aren't educating their clients. I think if more people knew we wouldn't put them in our houses.
You are a GIFT!!! I just enrolled in school for an Associate in Applied Science Building Construction Technology degree for the Fall semester. I plan to build tiny homes as well as traditional residential homes and you are bringing so many gems to light! Just really happy to have found your channel at the perfect time!
Thank you Brent! There is nothing I enjoy more than restoring a salvaged solid wood door and hardware. Stripping the paint, repairing the holes... One thing you didn't mention is the feeling of the weight of the door and the sound of the strike when it closes. Nothing better!
I am building a tiny retirement cottage. I have decided (against advice) that I can't afford Brent Hull; so I'll build my windows and doors onsite. I'm also going to put together my own roof trusses. I have been advised (repeatedly) "that's nuts". It is completely ridiculous to step back in history to a time of lower productivity. The cost is simply too high for what I'm getting. And, in one sense, my critics are right. This is FAR too expensive for "production builders." However, my simple roof trusses will cost me less than $200 - including all of the metal connector plates, high-quality glue, and lumber. The self-same trusses would be $1,200 pre made. I can pay for a lot of carpentry labor for that difference and still come out ahead. Ditto the windows. Everybody from Matt Risinger to the Perkins Brothers uses pre-made, properly engineered, 'efficient' windows. Will my self-built windows last 100 years? Doubtful (I can't afford sapele, Brent, I'm gonna use cedar). But, they're still orders of magnitude better than the plastic duo-pane windows available from the big box store! I'm now on the look-out for a supplier of antique hardware. So far, every one I've found charges an arm and a leg. Really, I can't afford more than $500 for the front door handle. I'll keep scouring FB Marketplace, Craigslist, and local salvage yards. A decent doorknob shouldn't be this hard to source! (and yet, it is. Sigh.) Wish me luck.
I sympathise greatly with your position. Life would be very different if you or I had the money to pay for the very best people and resources to build that house indulging in everything to achieve “perfection”. I’m now too old (rather, my body is whilst my mind is still 40) to do a day’s hard graft lifting, bending and I find that the body pains make me impatient - a recipe for 2nd class work. I’m very lucky in that one of our sons is a very talented joiner and he’s putting into reality my design and construction ideas. I’d suggest your solution is the only one available to you. The balance of a lot of extra time (whilst you are doing it yourself) versus affordability. I understand your position about good quality hardware. I’m in the UK and using the bigger names as a source of hardware is just unachievable. I’m afraid also that salvage yards seem to uniformly have a high opinion of any kind of junk (presumably, somebody buys it and pays the price); good quality items from that source are beyond any reasonable budget. We have what we euphemistically call “boot fairs” in the UK. Supposedly, private or small scale business sellers offering their goods out of the boot of their car. It’s all outgrown car boots but I find there are still bargains to be had. Yes, you have to get there early doors -0700 at the latest - to get the best stuff as the early bird catches the worm. I wish you the very best in your endeavours. It’s great to see low money getting high results.
In the U.K. old door hardware, hinges etc is quite cheap. You should post some videos of what you’ve done and what you’re doing, kinda how you did it, sounds very interesting especially for a lay person like myself.
@@theofarmmanager267 I have no joiners in the family to call on, so I'm adopting a different tactic. I'm studying to improver my Spanish. I am building in the Southwest American desert and the vast majority of the skilled tradesmen speak Spanish. Even when we communicate in English, they appreciate the fact that I at least try to use Spanish! (And, they like my empinadas. I have learned if you feed them, they will come...) Thanks for the encouragement!
I enjoyed your video. Would you consider making two more? The first video would be on what you would consider to be the “good, better and best” options of interior doors (and what you’d consider to be a decent price for those quality levels) and then name some manufacturers that produce the doors? Many people seem to be reluctant to name manufacturers but that is probably the most important information homeowners want. The second video would be the same concept but for door hardware - hinges and handles. Again, who makes quality products and where can we buy them?
you brought up a good point about your builds being on the higher end of the spectrum so my question is this how can someone approach a budget build or remodel while emphasizing builder science first and then imploring high design. I mean, in many ways it's pretty much guaranteeing the common person will always default to "contemporary" design or at least a facsimile of antiquities that more often is just whats on the shelf of the big box store.
Thanks! That's a great question. If I was on a budget build, I'd probably put in a solid slab door and go contemporary because the job can't afford moldings or traditional. Modern is cheaper to build than good traditional. Less of everything. If the client still wanted traditional, I would give them better things with less square footage.
@@BrentHull that's sort of what I was imagining and probably why there's so little good traditional architecture and so much contemporary. With the affordable housing shortage we are lucky if we can currently get decently built houses much less extremely well designed well built homes.
I get where you're coming from but the moulded doors are cheap, stable and available is so many different styles to suit the homeowners choice that they are the go-to door for internal use. In modern homes with seasonal forced heating and cooling a real timber door can be the worst choice as the real wood is subject to shrinkage when it dries out and can suffer from warping which then makes the homeowner really unhappy that they've spent a fortune on a wooden door that now doesn't close properly. With the modern lifestyle choices that are available, not many people want to be stuck with one style of door for the duration of their stay in a home, cheap doors allow them to chop and change between door styles at little cost and they are stable, don't warp, are clean surfaces for painting and a whole house full of doors can be changed for the same price as one solid wood door. I've just done this in my own home, changed from the six panel doors to a cottage style for £36/$41 a door , £324/£369 to change 9 doors, they all look the same, all paint up great and fit just fine. At that price I can change the doors cheaper than it would cost to scrape the old paint off and repaint old ones and if I fancy a change of style I can get a different one for much the same price. Not everyone can afford to get solid doors, even chipboard core are £100/$113 more than the moulded, and they can only be trimmed 10mm before you expose the chipboard core, a real wood solid door here is £400/$454. Not financially viable for most people.
Hmm, that is an interesting take. Sounds like you change our doors as easily as you would repaint a room. I haven't heard that yet. Thanks for sharing.
All material shrink and expand with heating, cooling and moisture changes. It is why you will come across so called engineered materials that are all warped, cracked or shrinking. A well made wooden door could last centuries. I have come across simply made 100 year old doors that still function. Tables that are 150 years old that still work. I have a wooden tool box that is 100 years old that has been through a lot and still functions and works. Most of the cheap doors that are being installed may only have a 3 year life before they look like they played rugby for 15 years. Even paint that bonds to the doors has started to peel, dinges damage the surface finish and can never be recovered. It is very common to find these so called engineered flooring to just bubble up.
Thank you for another great video, Brent! The desire for lightweight interior doors began with Paine's "Miracle door" and gradually deteriorated as hollow core doors gradually lost more and more craftsmanship. You are 100% right.
That is an interesting insight. I assumed the Paine Miracle door was a sleek modern contribution not a lightweight exercise. We need to talk soon. Thanks!
This is amazing information. I love seeing the "small" details that you show in this one. I like how you show these small details that add up to create a masterpiece of a project.
I remember going into family’s houses they built themselves, just using the cheapest option available and how frustrating trying to close the doors behind you with your hands full and vowed I’d never have that in my home when we got married and bought our own house. As a hobbyist woodworker with an ever-growing family, we are eventually going to have to sell this house and in our next home I want to build my own solid front door. I’m excited for that.
Don't apologize for your rant Brent, the only thing to be sorry for, is that it won't reach enough people. Pretty soon whole houses will be constructed like that last door...which is little more then a privacy screen with hinges.
Excellent Rant. 100%. Very timely for me. I'm a homeowner who's renovating and trying to purchase 13 "real" doors. Where can you even find these anymore? Definitely not at the big box stores...
What I would suggest is to buy one or two good doors and focus them on the most used rooms such as living room that tend to be on display. And over time you can change the other doors throughout the house.
Bravo!!! ...but that "quick, easy, cheap" attitude is everywhere in America: from food to fashion and, evidently, construction. If it breaks...just throw it away, right? 🤦♀️ Keep preachin', Bro. Hull!
I work in the apartment maintenance industry. A hollow core door and standard off-the-shelf "just screw it in" handle/knob/latching assembly WILL last for decades if it is not abused. I have some from the early 90's still working flawlessly. You mentioned WEIGHT... yes, they weigh less. Guess what - THIS IS A BONUS for the worker / maintainer. No, you dont have to miter or cut unique openings for the knobs. Yes, they are all standardized... THESE ARE GOOD THINGS FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME. So what if a door isn't going to last 30 years? Most people wont even stay in one place for a TENTH of that time.
@@BrentHull Thank you for continuing a beautiful tradition. Most things have their place and you are preserving and propagating the beauty and functional reasoning behind them. Your work is inspiring. But let's not forget that, in the housing industry, there are reasons for change. ( I believe I have seen a few of your videos that touch on this fact). Sure, those changes tend to make the product more cheaply made - but many times standardization helps PEOPLE build more effectively and maintain those houses more efficiently. Unfortunately, PEOPLE seem to have motivation to maintain their own homes. We have lost basic craftmanship. I applaud you for bringing it back to AMAZING insight to building our homes better! Thank you.
The selling price of a new home sure doesn't seem to have gone down. Trash picked a nice decorative solid wood door from the neighbor a couple of years ago. Unfortunately it's only 28" wide and the hollow door ( only one ) in the apt. living room is 30" wide. I should put it on CL Free section and move it on to a good home if possible - probably an old closet door with limited applicability however.
Love the rants. PREACH! 😂 Another thing about modern things including door hardware is that you cannot really fix them, even with many fancy engineering tools. Very cheap castings, brass, aluminium, weird alloys, basically pot metal but worse, stamped sheet metal parts like the rose thing that covers how the spindle of the handle goes through the door, extremely small tapped holes for little dinky screws that snap or thread themselves a new hole. Parts that do like 4 jobs at once making it a nightmare to take apart. It’s awful. We design things in a fundamentally inhuman way, things humans cannot fix, I blame mostly CAD and probably CNC too for the change in design thought. Human fingers couldn’t make wooden casting patterns in ways that would result in castings humans cannot comprehend, much less machine afterward. Drills, mills and lathes can’t make things someone with the same gear cannot fix. In U.K. we never really had many mortise locks until we got MDF and cardboard doors, but we mostly just use those horrible circular ones you drop in a hole. Most of our new internal doors are actually solid wood or finger jointer wood though but not made with proper joinery, mostly relying on glue and weird routed joints. They make very small mortise locks you only need a router to install and they make pre-machined doors and all sorts of horrible stuff. We mostly stuck to rim locks historically. Most front and back doors/exterior doors are plastic now and have ugly surface mounted locks with ugly lever handles made of nasty plated pot metal, I think they’re aluminium alloys of some sort. I’m restoring a few Victorian (possibly Edwardian) rim locks including one that may be from the 1850’s to 1880’s at the latest. Construction of that one is fascinating - top and bottom of the case are castings, shaped like little mouldings, kind of fluted, which are nailed/pinned into the plates, which are possibly blacksmithed somehow, with the scale and slightly undulating surface you get when forging. Most of the important mechanism bits are machined brass, (very rough sand cast, with machined elements) cast brass and cast iron. It’s got some soldered parts I think, can’t find any pins holding them. I rescue them out of skips, sometimes the doors too - people will throw out 100 year old (minimum) doors and replace them with horrible stuff without a moments hesitation here, our heritage is vanishing. I bought a 70 year old Mitford ML7 lathe remake a lot of the parts involving the actual handle spindle rotating and the arms inside on the spindle - people in the last few decades are so mechanically illiterate that they don’t know that you have to oil stuff 😂 of all of them I’ve seen it’s always the same few parts that are worn, makes them very sloppy and unsatisfying to feel in use, and sometimes they bind up an are notchy.
Great demo of the cut door. Really shows you all you need to know. What do you think of a happy medium door with something like laminated Windsor One boards planed to the right thickness for the rails and stiles with plywood or MDF panel inserts (or glass) and complementing panel molding?
It’s largely true, as ever, that you get what you pay for. However, even expensive doors can be badly made - so it pays to look further than the price. I have to take some issue with any responder who says that they avoid anything made of/with MDF. For me, MDF has its place and it’s advantages. Structurally, it’s not strong but it can make very good panels within a door - if it’s high quality MDF (we only use Fensa MR and Medite MR over here in the UK. It can make quite good skirtings as they have little structural requirement. One area where MDF does score, I feel, is in the use of timber that would otherwise be junked or burnt. These saplings or trimmings can be turned into a decent product that knows it’s place. That means that decent timber doesn’t get used for smaller (thinner or narrower) stock and makes the most of the timber resource. I accept that there’s a use of some glues to bind the fibres together and so it’s not a perfectly green product. The other advantage is the lack of movement with MDF which also means that cross grain isn’t an issue. We are building oak doors using 42mm stiles, rails and intermediates whilst the panelling is 20mm oak veneered MDF. I can assure you that it’s solid, heavyweight and delivers a resounding bang when closed.
MDF is expensive junk. When you buy an MDF product that tries to look fancy you are generally paying way over the odds for that product. Where this is most common in the UK Is the super expensive kitchens that are nothing more than MDF shells with a door on them. MDF is a horrible material that simply does not last. The UK which is a humid climate is going to really warp MDF when it comes to fixtures and fittings with skirting that is at floor level facing the most amount of damp exposure. A typical UK property which has a front door and small hallway is going to be a nightmare environment for MDF. Medite is a horrible material for quality home builds and is really a factory material.
@@bighands69 thankfully, your opinions say much more about you than they do about MDF. “Expensive junk” well, that could only be said by a maker of little knowledge.”Generally paying way over the odds” well, that’s a phrase which says a lot about your analytical capabilities. I’ve been involved with quite a few renowned bespoke furniture makers over the last 45 years as well as making and selling myself for many years. If the maker is an experienced, high caliber woodworker, they will understand and use the right quality of MDF where it is the right, cost effective medium to use. Perhaps inexperienced makers might employ MDF in situations where it is not suitable and that is where you get your opinion. I’m very happy that, with all the hand veneered panels on MDF substrate that I have made over the years, none have suffered from the issues you seem to believe are preeminent. Indeed, worthy makers understand that using the right quality is the way to avoid the issues you state. Medite rightly has its reputation. I have forwarded your response to Medite Smartply in Dartford for them to take forward as they see fit. Thankfully, the laws of defamation do not end at the doors of YT
@@bighands69 that’s about an inaccurate statement as is possible. Now tell me that woodworkers don’t use glue because it’s not wood; woodworkers don’t use screws because they are not wood.
The sad thing is that cheap products have now been around long enough that even if we go to the building salvage places we're likely to encounter the same thing we're trying to avoid. Even sadder is that average builders seem to have little understanding or appreciation of how it used to be and why. Tell a contractor you want a good door and they'll just go to the "supreme" line of the typical big box door supplier, using price as a substitute for quality.
The old door locks, however, got loose or hard to turn over time. They eventually have to be repaired or replaced. I guess what usually happened is the lock or the door got completely replaced with something new. Maybe they could have been maintained better, but you don't see good working old locks in most old houses, even after 100 years. Custom projects usually don't use $25.00 locksets. Probably starting more in the $i00 range for a passage door.
I still have the original mortise in most of my doors, i do have also have 1 skeleton key, but it only fits 1 door.. looking for old keys to try to fund some that work the other doors
Your opinion of what beauty is is well taken - you're right that they don't make stuff like they used to. I really like the style of the knobs / levers you showed, and obviously solid wood doors are really nice. They'd probably work great for the first hundred, or thousand, or maybe even 10 thousand people who want one. But what happens when we need to produce 10 million? When you start to think about problems of scale, things like shitty hollow core foam filled doors really start to come in to perspective. It's not that they are claiming to be the great heirloom-style pass down to your kids kind of woodworking - they're just trying to do a job, which is separate two spaces so a person can have some privacy in a house or an apartment. I feel for you lamenting the loss of workmanship and quality in products, but it's really just not sustainable at extreme scale. We have too many people that need doors and knobs for all of them to be made of solid metal or wood, and the cost of those things would put them out of reach, too. I'm a big believer in doing something that's not perfect and having it done at all rather than not doing it because it can't be perfect.
You wrote, "things like shitty hollow core foam filled doors ". I was surprised; that door was not even foam filled!? You make some good/true points, thx hp
Understood and I agree on a large cheap scale this is a reality. My problem is that these are showing up in homes that can afford better. Chasing after cheap, means we are moving in the wrong direction. ultimately, it is not just our doors that are cheap but our walls, our windows our roofs, is that ok? I am unfortunately looking to where this is headed and I'm anxious for craft and the longevity of our homes.
MDF, styrofome and cardboard. Sad state of doors. I'm changing out my three internal doors with wooden doors now. Had to change the frame as well, but will be worth it
Totally. While I'm all for utilizing engineering expertise to use less material, it seems like the majority of things manufactured nowadays are crap that doesn't last.
Brent, what would you recommend for pocket doors? My new build will have two pocket doors (unavoidable due to space limits) and I’m afraid of them being too heavy to slide easily.
Where would real-wood solid-core slab doors fall in the spectrum - above or below stile+rail doors? Are they really a solid slab, or is it more like a veneer over solid wood that's joined together?
Good question. Well, solid core doors are filled with all types of things, MDF, Chip board, and real wood. I say they are below the stile and rail door. Thanks.
Everybody is complaining about the cost of stuff and yet people are still spending money (otherwise, price would go down). People have money, they just don’t tell you.
@@xavytex part of problem is people have replaced pride of home with expectation of resale profit. Most folks just looking to get over on the next guy.....houses are "investments" not really family homes
@@willbass2869 Yes it's true. I'm French and we keep our houses for generations. My parents had their home custom built (like about 50% of people in France). They had it since 1988 and no intention of selling to pocket a profit. Btw, nobody actually makes a profit on houses because once the house is sold, one has to buy another one for roughly the same price. Unless one goes back to renting. Which is uncommon for home owners. I did 4 years of insurance renos. Many times we found rot in the framing, buried electrical boxes, improper tile installation, etc... People rarely wanted to pay extra to fix the issue. "We're going to sell the house" was their answer...
I understand the question but i would argue you can buy 6 panel stile and rail doors at Home Depot for $300/each. It might require a more thorough search but there are options.
I think you are referring to the round chair, by Hans Wegner. I think they still make them, check out design within reach. I found mine at a antique store.
Education can go a long way and consumers will start caring. Consumers do value quality in other categories and pay for it such as automotives, cell phones, even appliances.
People live in their houses for an average of 7 years. Expecting them to want it to last beyond that 7 years is a big ask. I know plenty of people who would think that $60 simulacrum of a door was too much and would ask if there was a cheaper option. The only value in modernity is the race to the bottom.
It is a problem, but at some point the customer's perspective and expectations change. Either because of experience, (cheap falls apart, heavy feels better, looks better) or travel, or something because better doors are appreciated.
Thanks but it is not about how much my doors cost (we are in the custom category), it matters that we stop putting in the cheapest door on the planet. These doors cost 100-200, the next level is solid core at 200-300 hundred, the stile and rail doors at 4-800. Then custom at 800 and up. FYI, at least in our market.
I get the point, but people just don't have the money to invest in their home. Most people now a days don't stay in one place their entire life. So why spend the money on custom doors when you are moving to chase a pay raise in a couple years anyways? I lament that for most projects I can't charge what it would take to do the job right and have the finesse time to correct even the slightest thing I didn't find up to snuff. But at the end of the day most people just don't want to pay for it.
Thanks for commenting. I'm not calling for custom doors, there are off-the-shelf doors that are real. Also, I realize that on starter homes or first homes this may be reality, but when I see these doors in expensive homes I think it is bad. I think if our customers knew how these doors are made they would not want them. My 2 cents.
I understand the sentiment and agree that as a culture we are losing craft, but I would argue that they pay for craft beer and craft coffee, if we educate them they will appreciate it and pay more.
What's the average duration of home ownership in the US? Somewhere between 5 and 15 years? Builder grade materials have come to reflect this trend and yes, it's very unfortunate. But the average homeowner just doesn't care anymore about whether their home is going to last several generations. They'll be out in a few years, the cheap, crappy doors will still be in good enough shape to sell the house, and the next owner can replace them and repeat the cycle. Personally, I have no interest in moving if I can avoid it, so as a hobbyist woodworker, I plan on eventually replacing all my cardboard doors with solid wood doors I've built myself. I once had to "plane" one of these doors down to get it to close right, which was how I discovered they were made of cardboard, not even MDF. Made me sick.
Thanks, I think the problem is when a customer comes to expect disposable products in their home then the builder will build to that level. It becomes a spiral of bad.
When the homeowner goes to sell the most common rejection from buyers is that the probably needs too much work. The reason for that is that the materials that are used in the build then to be of a very low quality. Sellers then have the option of either selling at a below market potential or having to invest money to make the property look better which tends to be the same cheap materials that were used in the first place. When they factor in normal inflation figures they are not making any sort of savings with their cheap material.
@@bighands69 Right, and because the duration of ownership is so short, and because sellers want houses to sell fast, they're compelled to spend the least amount of money on the least amount of work to make this happen. If you start doing an excess of work necessary for it to sell right away, you risk pricing yourself out of the market and your house sells slower. Just look at rental apartments for the most extreme version of this. Of course, this starts with the manufacturers in the first place. When you manufacture goods on an industrial scale, you're compelled to make the cheapest products that will sell (at least under free market capitalism you are). That homeowners buy these products for the reasons above is taken as evidence of demand by manufacturers. It just all kinda sucks.
@@BrentHull that’s how I feel every time I have to hang a “paper door”. I’m a finish Carpenter and I’m wrapping up building our own personal house. I got sideways looks from the contractor when I spent good money on real wood rail and stile doors. In that meeting I basically said exactly what you said in this video about modern hollow core doors
Just a few weeks ago I was showing someone that his “real solid wood” office door is not a real solid wood door by pointing out to him the veneer. 🤷🏼♀️🙄
Brent, I will say this I don’t think all of the old ways were better, houses are better insulated today window technology is better, a some of tho old mortise locks and handles didn’t work very well, windows might not last as long, but the technology is better.
As a society we have been swept up by the concept of the lowest common denominator. Alternatively you could label it as praying at the altar of mass consumption. Whatever you call it, it stinks, and it goes beyond commerce. Over time it affects our values, our morals, and how we interact as members of a society. Quantity over quality. Glitz over substance. It’s awful. I appreciate your taking the time to share your work and your values.
Many of these doors are sold wholesale to lumberyards. I would go to a pro-lumber yard (don't start at Home Depot) and tell them you want an alternative to the cheap doors, true stile and rail interior doors and look at your options.
every one if this guys videos come down to "youre not spending enough money, you should be spending more" no brent, im not made of money. show me YOUR $60 door.
I find it very sad at how pathetically generic and cheaply made anything and everything became. Even when items like appliances, light fixtures and nic naks were built with knowledge, skills and appreciation. That's why they were called artisans. They took extreme pride in their crafts and knew their reputations were dependent on quality and longevity. Industrialization brought greed over dependability and reputation. Way back in the early 90's, one of the very first things my business professor taught us is that everything is made to break. Not a coincidence that an item breaks the day after your warranty expires. Huge companies want to make sure you have to keep coming back. I'd much rather pay for quality and skills. While having items last so long, that you can actually leave them in a will so the next generations can enjoy them.
AMEN! This can be applied across industries too! See "fast fashion" or look at shoes... GOOD GOD look at shoes. Modern shoes are ABSOLUTE garbage. Why have we allowed ourselves to become such a disposable society? It is so disappointing.
I also got pretty fed up with how cheaply made most furniture was and how expensive quality furniture was. $15k later I have a basement wood shop, nice custom furniture, and have spent countless nights lying in bed thinking of how to overcomplicate my next build. Worth it!
Amen. I've found myself in the same place. I think furniture is an excellent comparable example.
A million percent. This is why all of my case goods are antiques. Hats off to those of you building modern heirloom quality furniture!
If you have the space and money, it's definitely worth investing in the tools and skills yourself - capitalism is nuts :/
Man your passion for quality is contagious.
Good, well I hope it is! Thank you!!!
Preach it, Brother! I grew up in a home building family and this 'builders grade' makes the real stuff our family uses look especially good. In my home, I cannot tell you how many comments I receive when folks enter through our first interior door. The feel of a real, solid wood door is so pleasant & comforting and the sound of a well hung door latching smoothly is music to my ears.
Right on!! Thanks for the comment.
This type of content inspired me to rip out my mdf kitchen cabinets and to make my own custom birch plywood cabinets. As soon as I ripped out the first mdf cabinet and saw how cheaply built it was I had zero regrets of taking that route.
I love it!
Ironically, I just finished replacing my last door in my forever remodel. A good door, should make a thud, not just shut. So now, between you and Finish Carpentry tv, my chunky trim is never going to be finished. Is ok though, my wife has been a good sport about the whole thing. Thank you. There is just something satisfying about two color stain grade trim and doors.
Haha, Awesome. So glad we could help.
Great video. There is nothing like true quality and craftsmanship. Everyday I appreciate the workmanship of our old house.
Couldn't agree more! Thanks!
Thank you for what you're doing. We need to bring back quality, durability and beauty back to what we build.
Amen. Thx.
This channel is such a gem. I'm pretty sure my front door is the same quality as that $60 door 😵💫I knew I wanted something more secure, but I didn't realize quite how crappy the doors can be here. I lived in eastern europe for 6 years, and my front door had a 5 locking system (3 on the side, one top, and one bottom) and it was SOLID. I don't know what material was it was made out of, but no one is getting through that thing. *That's" the type of door I'm looking to get here.
Yes! Solid wood would help.
That was no pointless rant, that was the truth.
We Are Slipping, no doubt about it.
Thanks!
Great Vid! Would love to see a video from you walking through a new semi luxury home with materials and techniques explained, and walking through an old home built with craftsman who cared, and compare and contrast the two.
That's a great idea. I wonder if I can get in one.
It's so disappointing to see the cheapening of everyday goods and materials. You can't go to a store and buy a door made of wood or a shirt made of cotton. Those are now considered connoisseur level materials that you have to seek out boutique purveyors to obtain. People need to watch educators like you who spread awareness of this deterioration so we can bring back quality.
Thanks, that is the goal. I appreciate the feedback.
It's all good.... I can't afford the gas to go go buy the overpriced cheap garbage anyways, I mean not just doors.... $40.00 for a sheet of 1/2" OSB!!!???? $100.00 for a spool of #12 wire!!???? I feel like it's making the middle class poor... sry for the rant, it all frustrates me
Thank you! I had to push to get even solid-core doors in our build and I felt like I was taking crazy pills that other people just *didn't care* and when the builder brought and installed hollow-core (by accident, they fixed it) other people *didn't notice*. It's as if the value of quality materials and craftsmanship has just never occurred to some people. Real wood doors weren't even offered.
Good for you. Thank you for fighting for the good. Its wrong that builders aren't educating their clients. I think if more people knew we wouldn't put them in our houses.
You are a GIFT!!! I just enrolled in school for an Associate in Applied Science Building Construction Technology degree for the Fall semester. I plan to build tiny homes as well as traditional residential homes and you are bringing so many gems to light! Just really happy to have found your channel at the perfect time!
Nice to hear. Good luck!!
Thank you Brent! There is nothing I enjoy more than restoring a salvaged solid wood door and hardware. Stripping the paint, repairing the holes... One thing you didn't mention is the feeling of the weight of the door and the sound of the strike when it closes. Nothing better!
Great point! Thanks.
I am building a tiny retirement cottage. I have decided (against advice) that I can't afford Brent Hull; so I'll build my windows and doors onsite. I'm also going to put together my own roof trusses. I have been advised (repeatedly) "that's nuts". It is completely ridiculous to step back in history to a time of lower productivity. The cost is simply too high for what I'm getting. And, in one sense, my critics are right. This is FAR too expensive for "production builders." However, my simple roof trusses will cost me less than $200 - including all of the metal connector plates, high-quality glue, and lumber. The self-same trusses would be $1,200 pre made. I can pay for a lot of carpentry labor for that difference and still come out ahead. Ditto the windows. Everybody from Matt Risinger to the Perkins Brothers uses pre-made, properly engineered, 'efficient' windows. Will my self-built windows last 100 years? Doubtful (I can't afford sapele, Brent, I'm gonna use cedar). But, they're still orders of magnitude better than the plastic duo-pane windows available from the big box store! I'm now on the look-out for a supplier of antique hardware. So far, every one I've found charges an arm and a leg. Really, I can't afford more than $500 for the front door handle. I'll keep scouring FB Marketplace, Craigslist, and local salvage yards. A decent doorknob shouldn't be this hard to source! (and yet, it is. Sigh.) Wish me luck.
WOW! SO proud of you. Hell Yes! Keep me posted. Incidentally, I can't afford me either. Good luck.
I sympathise greatly with your position. Life would be very different if you or I had the money to pay for the very best people and resources to build that house indulging in everything to achieve “perfection”. I’m now too old (rather, my body is whilst my mind is still 40) to do a day’s hard graft lifting, bending and I find that the body pains make me impatient - a recipe for 2nd class work. I’m very lucky in that one of our sons is a very talented joiner and he’s putting into reality my design and construction ideas.
I’d suggest your solution is the only one available to you. The balance of a lot of extra time (whilst you are doing it yourself) versus affordability.
I understand your position about good quality hardware. I’m in the UK and using the bigger names as a source of hardware is just unachievable. I’m afraid also that salvage yards seem to uniformly have a high opinion of any kind of junk (presumably, somebody buys it and pays the price); good quality items from that source are beyond any reasonable budget.
We have what we euphemistically call “boot fairs” in the UK. Supposedly, private or small scale business sellers offering their goods out of the boot of their car. It’s all outgrown car boots but I find there are still bargains to be had. Yes, you have to get there early doors -0700 at the latest - to get the best stuff as the early bird catches the worm.
I wish you the very best in your endeavours. It’s great to see low money getting high results.
In the U.K. old door hardware, hinges etc is quite cheap. You should post some videos of what you’ve done and what you’re doing, kinda how you did it, sounds very interesting especially for a lay person like myself.
@@theofarmmanager267 I have no joiners in the family to call on, so I'm adopting a different tactic. I'm studying to improver my Spanish. I am building in the Southwest American desert and the vast majority of the skilled tradesmen speak Spanish. Even when we communicate in English, they appreciate the fact that I at least try to use Spanish! (And, they like my empinadas. I have learned if you feed them, they will come...) Thanks for the encouragement!
@@BrentHull Thanks, I'll keep you posted.
I enjoyed your video. Would you consider making two more? The first video would be on what you would consider to be the “good, better and best” options of interior doors (and what you’d consider to be a decent price for those quality levels) and then name some manufacturers that produce the doors? Many people seem to be reluctant to name manufacturers but that is probably the most important information homeowners want.
The second video would be the same concept but for door hardware - hinges and handles. Again, who makes quality products and where can we buy them?
Great ideal. Let me work on it. Thanks.
I echo this sentiment. This would be excellent.
Yes, please do this
you brought up a good point about your builds being on the higher end of the spectrum so my question is this how can someone approach a budget build or remodel while emphasizing builder science first and then imploring high design. I mean, in many ways it's pretty much guaranteeing the common person will always default to "contemporary" design or at least a facsimile of antiquities that more often is just whats on the shelf of the big box store.
Thanks! That's a great question. If I was on a budget build, I'd probably put in a solid slab door and go contemporary because the job can't afford moldings or traditional. Modern is cheaper to build than good traditional. Less of everything.
If the client still wanted traditional, I would give them better things with less square footage.
@@BrentHull that's sort of what I was imagining and probably why there's so little good traditional architecture and so much contemporary. With the affordable housing shortage we are lucky if we can currently get decently built houses much less extremely well designed well built homes.
I get where you're coming from but the moulded doors are cheap, stable and available is so many different styles to suit the homeowners choice that they are the go-to door for internal use. In modern homes with seasonal forced heating and cooling a real timber door can be the worst choice as the real wood is subject to shrinkage when it dries out and can suffer from warping which then makes the homeowner really unhappy that they've spent a fortune on a wooden door that now doesn't close properly. With the modern lifestyle choices that are available, not many people want to be stuck with one style of door for the duration of their stay in a home, cheap doors allow them to chop and change between door styles at little cost and they are stable, don't warp, are clean surfaces for painting and a whole house full of doors can be changed for the same price as one solid wood door. I've just done this in my own home, changed from the six panel doors to a cottage style for £36/$41 a door , £324/£369 to change 9 doors, they all look the same, all paint up great and fit just fine. At that price I can change the doors cheaper than it would cost to scrape the old paint off and repaint old ones and if I fancy a change of style I can get a different one for much the same price. Not everyone can afford to get solid doors, even chipboard core are £100/$113 more than the moulded, and they can only be trimmed 10mm before you expose the chipboard core, a real wood solid door here is £400/$454. Not financially viable for most people.
Hmm, that is an interesting take. Sounds like you change our doors as easily as you would repaint a room. I haven't heard that yet. Thanks for sharing.
All material shrink and expand with heating, cooling and moisture changes. It is why you will come across so called engineered materials that are all warped, cracked or shrinking. A well made wooden door could last centuries.
I have come across simply made 100 year old doors that still function. Tables that are 150 years old that still work. I have a wooden tool box that is 100 years old that has been through a lot and still functions and works.
Most of the cheap doors that are being installed may only have a 3 year life before they look like they played rugby for 15 years. Even paint that bonds to the doors has started to peel, dinges damage the surface finish and can never be recovered.
It is very common to find these so called engineered flooring to just bubble up.
I follow you from Spain. I think you are a great profesional and I really enjoy watching your videos. Thank you for your generosity! Greetings!!
Greetings. Thanks for watching!!
Your exactly right what your saying, but you made me laugh pulling that door apart.👍
Haha, not funny but funny.
Great rant! I have only got one rubbish door left in my house, and now I want to change it as soon as possible.
Go for it! Good luck.
Very interesting! Thank you so much for educating us.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Encouraging that you care so much about quality, thank you for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for another great video, Brent! The desire for lightweight interior doors began with Paine's "Miracle door" and gradually deteriorated as hollow core doors gradually lost more and more craftsmanship. You are 100% right.
That is an interesting insight. I assumed the Paine Miracle door was a sleek modern contribution not a lightweight exercise. We need to talk soon. Thanks!
You're rants make me laugh. Love them.
haha thanks.
This is amazing information. I love seeing the "small" details that you show in this one. I like how you show these small details that add up to create a masterpiece of a project.
Thanks so much!
I remember going into family’s houses they built themselves, just using the cheapest option available and how frustrating trying to close the doors behind you with your hands full and vowed I’d never have that in my home when we got married and bought our own house. As a hobbyist woodworker with an ever-growing family, we are eventually going to have to sell this house and in our next home I want to build my own solid front door. I’m excited for that.
You should be, a great goal. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks!!!
Welcome!
Don't apologize for your rant Brent, the only thing to be sorry for, is that it won't reach enough people. Pretty soon whole houses will be constructed like that last door...which is little more then a privacy screen with hinges.
Thanks for the comment!! I agree.
Excellent Rant. 100%. Very timely for me. I'm a homeowner who's renovating and trying to purchase 13 "real" doors. Where can you even find these anymore? Definitely not at the big box stores...
Home depot has pine doors. $300 each.
I would start with savaged door if you have an old house. You can buy stile and rail doors from pro-lumber yards. Those guys will have good solutions.
True, but limited styles. Still, a great start at a reasonable cost.
What I would suggest is to buy one or two good doors and focus them on the most used rooms such as living room that tend to be on display.
And over time you can change the other doors throughout the house.
Bravo!!! ...but that "quick, easy, cheap" attitude is everywhere in America: from food to fashion and, evidently, construction. If it breaks...just throw it away, right? 🤦♀️ Keep preachin', Bro. Hull!
So true, and that is the problem. I will. Thanks for the encouragement.
Excellent video. I echo the comment from ryan soo. Knowing what a good/better/best option is would be excellent. Same goes for door hardware.
Great tip! I'll work on it.
I work in the apartment maintenance industry. A hollow core door and standard off-the-shelf "just screw it in" handle/knob/latching assembly WILL last for decades if it is not abused. I have some from the early 90's still working flawlessly.
You mentioned WEIGHT... yes, they weigh less. Guess what - THIS IS A BONUS for the worker / maintainer. No, you dont have to miter or cut unique openings for the knobs. Yes, they are all standardized... THESE ARE GOOD THINGS FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME.
So what if a door isn't going to last 30 years? Most people wont even stay in one place for a TENTH of that time.
Thanks for your perspective.
@@BrentHull Thank you for continuing a beautiful tradition. Most things have their place and you are preserving and propagating the beauty and functional reasoning behind them. Your work is inspiring.
But let's not forget that, in the housing industry, there are reasons for change. ( I believe I have seen a few of your videos that touch on this fact).
Sure, those changes tend to make the product more cheaply made - but many times standardization helps PEOPLE build more effectively and maintain those houses more efficiently.
Unfortunately, PEOPLE seem to have motivation to maintain their own homes. We have lost basic craftmanship. I applaud you for bringing it back to AMAZING insight to building our homes better!
Thank you.
The selling price of a new home sure doesn't seem to have gone down.
Trash picked a nice decorative solid wood door from the neighbor a couple of years ago.
Unfortunately it's only 28" wide and the hollow door ( only one ) in the apt. living room is 30" wide.
I should put it on CL Free section and move it on to a good home if possible - probably an old closet door with limited applicability however.
Good luck. Thanks for sharing.
Love the rants. PREACH! 😂
Another thing about modern things including door hardware is that you cannot really fix them, even with many fancy engineering tools. Very cheap castings, brass, aluminium, weird alloys, basically pot metal but worse, stamped sheet metal parts like the rose thing that covers how the spindle of the handle goes through the door, extremely small tapped holes for little dinky screws that snap or thread themselves a new hole. Parts that do like 4 jobs at once making it a nightmare to take apart. It’s awful. We design things in a fundamentally inhuman way, things humans cannot fix, I blame mostly CAD and probably CNC too for the change in design thought.
Human fingers couldn’t make wooden casting patterns in ways that would result in castings humans cannot comprehend, much less machine afterward. Drills, mills and lathes can’t make things someone with the same gear cannot fix.
In U.K. we never really had many mortise locks until we got MDF and cardboard doors, but we mostly just use those horrible circular ones you drop in a hole. Most of our new internal doors are actually solid wood or finger jointer wood though but not made with proper joinery, mostly relying on glue and weird routed joints. They make very small mortise locks you only need a router to install and they make pre-machined doors and all sorts of horrible stuff. We mostly stuck to rim locks historically. Most front and back doors/exterior doors are plastic now and have ugly surface mounted locks with ugly lever handles made of nasty plated pot metal, I think they’re aluminium alloys of some sort.
I’m restoring a few Victorian (possibly Edwardian) rim locks including one that may be from the 1850’s to 1880’s at the latest. Construction of that one is fascinating - top and bottom of the case are castings, shaped like little mouldings, kind of fluted, which are nailed/pinned into the plates, which are possibly blacksmithed somehow, with the scale and slightly undulating surface you get when forging. Most of the important mechanism bits are machined brass, (very rough sand cast, with machined elements) cast brass and cast iron. It’s got some soldered parts I think, can’t find any pins holding them. I rescue them out of skips, sometimes the doors too - people will throw out 100 year old (minimum) doors and replace them with horrible stuff without a moments hesitation here, our heritage is vanishing.
I bought a 70 year old Mitford ML7 lathe remake a lot of the parts involving the actual handle spindle rotating and the arms inside on the spindle - people in the last few decades are so mechanically illiterate that they don’t know that you have to oil stuff 😂 of all of them I’ve seen it’s always the same few parts that are worn, makes them very sloppy and unsatisfying to feel in use, and sometimes they bind up an are notchy.
Awesome!! Thanks so much for sharing. Keep up the good work!!
Great demo of the cut door. Really shows you all you need to know. What do you think of a happy medium door with something like laminated Windsor One boards planed to the right thickness for the rails and stiles with plywood or MDF panel inserts (or glass) and complementing panel molding?
I think that is a good compromise. Thanks.
Lmao I love how you just drop the door and walk away
Haha. Thanks
It’s largely true, as ever, that you get what you pay for. However, even expensive doors can be badly made - so it pays to look further than the price. I have to take some issue with any responder who says that they avoid anything made of/with MDF. For me, MDF has its place and it’s advantages. Structurally, it’s not strong but it can make very good panels within a door - if it’s high quality MDF (we only use Fensa MR and Medite MR over here in the UK. It can make quite good skirtings as they have little structural requirement. One area where MDF does score, I feel, is in the use of timber that would otherwise be junked or burnt. These saplings or trimmings can be turned into a decent product that knows it’s place. That means that decent timber doesn’t get used for smaller (thinner or narrower) stock and makes the most of the timber resource. I accept that there’s a use of some glues to bind the fibres together and so it’s not a perfectly green product. The other advantage is the lack of movement with MDF which also means that cross grain isn’t an issue. We are building oak doors using 42mm stiles, rails and intermediates whilst the panelling is 20mm oak veneered MDF. I can assure you that it’s solid, heavyweight and delivers a resounding bang when closed.
Thanks as always for sharing.
MDF is expensive junk. When you buy an MDF product that tries to look fancy you are generally paying way over the odds for that product.
Where this is most common in the UK Is the super expensive kitchens that are nothing more than MDF shells with a door on them.
MDF is a horrible material that simply does not last. The UK which is a humid climate is going to really warp MDF when it comes to fixtures and fittings with skirting that is at floor level facing the most amount of damp exposure.
A typical UK property which has a front door and small hallway is going to be a nightmare environment for MDF.
Medite is a horrible material for quality home builds and is really a factory material.
@@bighands69 thankfully, your opinions say much more about you than they do about MDF. “Expensive junk” well, that could only be said by a maker of little knowledge.”Generally paying way over the odds” well, that’s a phrase which says a lot about your analytical capabilities. I’ve been involved with quite a few renowned bespoke furniture makers over the last 45 years as well as making and selling myself for many years. If the maker is an experienced, high caliber woodworker, they will understand and use the right quality of MDF where it is the right, cost effective medium to use. Perhaps inexperienced makers might employ MDF in situations where it is not suitable and that is where you get your opinion.
I’m very happy that, with all the hand veneered panels on MDF substrate that I have made over the years, none have suffered from the issues you seem to believe are preeminent. Indeed, worthy makers understand that using the right quality is the way to avoid the issues you state.
Medite rightly has its reputation. I have forwarded your response to Medite Smartply in Dartford for them to take forward as they see fit. Thankfully, the laws of defamation do not end at the doors of YT
@@theofarmmanager267
Woodworkers do not use MDF because it is not wood.
@@bighands69 that’s about an inaccurate statement as is possible. Now tell me that woodworkers don’t use glue because it’s not wood; woodworkers don’t use screws because they are not wood.
A lot of houses seem to have solid wood downstairs and cheap light hallow doors upstairs.
Hm, I haven't seen that.
The sad thing is that cheap products have now been around long enough that even if we go to the building salvage places we're likely to encounter the same thing we're trying to avoid. Even sadder is that average builders seem to have little understanding or appreciation of how it used to be and why. Tell a contractor you want a good door and they'll just go to the "supreme" line of the typical big box door supplier, using price as a substitute for quality.
True, but my hope is that as we educate the client and builder, we can slow the flow. Thanks for watching.
The old door locks, however, got loose or hard to turn over time. They eventually have to be repaired or replaced. I guess what usually happened is the lock or the door got completely replaced with something new. Maybe they could have been maintained better, but you don't see good working old locks in most old houses, even after 100 years. Custom projects usually don't use $25.00 locksets. Probably starting more in the $i00 range for a passage door.
Thanks for your comments. If these locks are maintained/serviced once every 10 or 15 years, they should last.
I still have the original mortise in most of my doors, i do have also have 1 skeleton key, but it only fits 1 door.. looking for old keys to try to fund some that work the other doors
Your opinion of what beauty is is well taken - you're right that they don't make stuff like they used to. I really like the style of the knobs / levers you showed, and obviously solid wood doors are really nice. They'd probably work great for the first hundred, or thousand, or maybe even 10 thousand people who want one.
But what happens when we need to produce 10 million? When you start to think about problems of scale, things like shitty hollow core foam filled doors really start to come in to perspective. It's not that they are claiming to be the great heirloom-style pass down to your kids kind of woodworking - they're just trying to do a job, which is separate two spaces so a person can have some privacy in a house or an apartment.
I feel for you lamenting the loss of workmanship and quality in products, but it's really just not sustainable at extreme scale. We have too many people that need doors and knobs for all of them to be made of solid metal or wood, and the cost of those things would put them out of reach, too. I'm a big believer in doing something that's not perfect and having it done at all rather than not doing it because it can't be perfect.
You wrote, "things like shitty hollow core foam filled doors ".
I was surprised; that door was not even foam filled!?
You make some good/true points, thx
hp
Understood and I agree on a large cheap scale this is a reality. My problem is that these are showing up in homes that can afford better. Chasing after cheap, means we are moving in the wrong direction. ultimately, it is not just our doors that are cheap but our walls, our windows our roofs, is that ok? I am unfortunately looking to where this is headed and I'm anxious for craft and the longevity of our homes.
LOL, well I didn't expect it. Thanks for your comment.
@@BrentHull Suggest - pin your Comment at the Top. Very true!
Amen 🎉
Thanks for watching.
MDF, styrofome and cardboard. Sad state of doors. I'm changing out my three internal doors with wooden doors now. Had to change the frame as well, but will be worth it
For sure!! Good luck.
Totally. While I'm all for utilizing engineering expertise to use less material, it seems like the majority of things manufactured nowadays are crap that doesn't last.
Totally agree. Thanks.
Brent, what would you recommend for pocket doors? My new build will have two pocket doors (unavoidable due to space limits) and I’m afraid of them being too heavy to slide easily.
New pocket door hardware, we use Johnson, are very easy to operate, even with heavy doors. Should be no problem.
Ok I already hated the hollow new doors in my 1930 house 😭 but STYROFOAM?!! Comedic! 🤯
LOL, true. Thanks for watching.
Where would real-wood solid-core slab doors fall in the spectrum - above or below stile+rail doors? Are they really a solid slab, or is it more like a veneer over solid wood that's joined together?
Good question. Well, solid core doors are filled with all types of things, MDF, Chip board, and real wood. I say they are below the stile and rail door. Thanks.
This is why I want to build the exterior door of our fulltime cabin. Any good reference material that you can provide?
Yes, please do. If you watch my video on wood, good woods. It lays out a lot of suggestions.
Hi, can you recommend where to buy hardware ?Thank You
We buy from a lot of places. I like House of Antique hardware, ball and ball, Heritage metal works, etc. Good luck.
Our last suburban home had those cheap doors (built 1993), but you need light doors because the hinges they use are awful!
Ha, I haven't heard that one, but they are flimsy.
Brett, while I agree with you that quality should be first, what middle class family, especially today, can afford $500 for an interior door?
Everybody is complaining about the cost of stuff and yet people are still spending money (otherwise, price would go down). People have money, they just don’t tell you.
@@xavytex part of problem is people have replaced pride of home with expectation of resale profit.
Most folks just looking to get over on the next guy.....houses are "investments" not really family homes
@@willbass2869 Yes it's true. I'm French and we keep our houses for generations. My parents had their home custom built (like about 50% of people in France). They had it since 1988 and no intention of selling to pocket a profit. Btw, nobody actually makes a profit on houses because once the house is sold, one has to buy another one for roughly the same price. Unless one goes back to renting. Which is uncommon for home owners.
I did 4 years of insurance renos. Many times we found rot in the framing, buried electrical boxes, improper tile installation, etc... People rarely wanted to pay extra to fix the issue. "We're going to sell the house" was their answer...
I understand the question but i would argue you can buy 6 panel stile and rail doors at Home Depot for $300/each. It might require a more thorough search but there are options.
I agree
The sad thing is that popular Renovation Shows take vintage Craftsman style homes and modernize them with cheap materials, which has become the trend.
Agreed and we must push against that. Thanks!!
In your Craftsman video you show the first chair you bought. What is the make and model number of that chair and is it being made today?
I think you are referring to the round chair, by Hans Wegner. I think they still make them, check out design within reach. I found mine at a antique store.
Education can go a long way and consumers will start caring. Consumers do value quality in other categories and pay for it such as automotives, cell phones, even appliances.
I agree 1000%. I hope we will start educating our clients more.
People live in their houses for an average of 7 years. Expecting them to want it to last beyond that 7 years is a big ask. I know plenty of people who would think that $60 simulacrum of a door was too much and would ask if there was a cheaper option. The only value in modernity is the race to the bottom.
It is a problem, but at some point the customer's perspective and expectations change. Either because of experience, (cheap falls apart, heavy feels better, looks better) or travel, or something because better doors are appreciated.
That was fun. But I do wonder how much your doors cost
Thanks but it is not about how much my doors cost (we are in the custom category), it matters that we stop putting in the cheapest door on the planet. These doors cost 100-200, the next level is solid core at 200-300 hundred, the stile and rail doors at 4-800. Then custom at 800 and up. FYI, at least in our market.
This was poetry! Lol go real builders!
Haha. Thanks.
I get the point, but people just don't have the money to invest in their home. Most people now a days don't stay in one place their entire life. So why spend the money on custom doors when you are moving to chase a pay raise in a couple years anyways?
I lament that for most projects I can't charge what it would take to do the job right and have the finesse time to correct even the slightest thing I didn't find up to snuff. But at the end of the day most people just don't want to pay for it.
Thanks for commenting. I'm not calling for custom doors, there are off-the-shelf doors that are real. Also, I realize that on starter homes or first homes this may be reality, but when I see these doors in expensive homes I think it is bad. I think if our customers knew how these doors are made they would not want them. My 2 cents.
@@BrentHull No worries, like I said I get the point but most people I have worked for would rather spend that money elsewhere unfortunatly.
“Solid MDF” 😂😂😂
LOL
The sad truth of our time: nobody has time or money for craftsmanship. :(
I understand the sentiment and agree that as a culture we are losing craft, but I would argue that they pay for craft beer and craft coffee, if we educate them they will appreciate it and pay more.
@@BrentHull I think you’re doing a great job at that, hope more and more find your channel!
That cardboard door was shocking!
Agreed!
What's the average duration of home ownership in the US? Somewhere between 5 and 15 years? Builder grade materials have come to reflect this trend and yes, it's very unfortunate. But the average homeowner just doesn't care anymore about whether their home is going to last several generations. They'll be out in a few years, the cheap, crappy doors will still be in good enough shape to sell the house, and the next owner can replace them and repeat the cycle.
Personally, I have no interest in moving if I can avoid it, so as a hobbyist woodworker, I plan on eventually replacing all my cardboard doors with solid wood doors I've built myself. I once had to "plane" one of these doors down to get it to close right, which was how I discovered they were made of cardboard, not even MDF. Made me sick.
Thanks, I think the problem is when a customer comes to expect disposable products in their home then the builder will build to that level. It becomes a spiral of bad.
When the homeowner goes to sell the most common rejection from buyers is that the probably needs too much work. The reason for that is that the materials that are used in the build then to be of a very low quality.
Sellers then have the option of either selling at a below market potential or having to invest money to make the property look better which tends to be the same cheap materials that were used in the first place. When they factor in normal inflation figures they are not making any sort of savings with their cheap material.
@@bighands69 Right, and because the duration of ownership is so short, and because sellers want houses to sell fast, they're compelled to spend the least amount of money on the least amount of work to make this happen. If you start doing an excess of work necessary for it to sell right away, you risk pricing yourself out of the market and your house sells slower. Just look at rental apartments for the most extreme version of this.
Of course, this starts with the manufacturers in the first place. When you manufacture goods on an industrial scale, you're compelled to make the cheapest products that will sell (at least under free market capitalism you are). That homeowners buy these products for the reasons above is taken as evidence of demand by manufacturers.
It just all kinda sucks.
You need a mafell jig saw! It holds 90° guaranteed!
Cool, I'm not familiar with it, I'll check it out.
Dogs don’t sweat Brent. 😀
Haha. Good point. Maybe I just felt like a dog. 😂
@@BrentHull that’s how I feel every time I have to hang a “paper door”.
I’m a finish Carpenter and I’m wrapping up building our own personal house. I got sideways looks from the contractor when I spent good money on real wood rail and stile doors. In that meeting I basically said exactly what you said in this video about modern hollow core doors
Just a few weeks ago I was showing someone that his “real solid wood” office door is not a real solid wood door by pointing out to him the veneer. 🤷🏼♀️🙄
Word! Thanks for spreading the word.
Brent, I will say this I don’t think all of the old ways were better, houses are better insulated today window technology is better, a some of tho old mortise locks and handles didn’t work very well, windows might not last as long, but the technology is better.
Its a balancing act. I still lean to the past, but concede in the insulation. Thanks.
As a society we have been swept up by the concept of the lowest common denominator. Alternatively you could label it as praying at the altar of mass consumption. Whatever you call it, it stinks, and it goes beyond commerce. Over time it affects our values, our morals, and how we interact as members of a society. Quantity over quality. Glitz over substance. It’s awful. I appreciate your taking the time to share your work and your values.
Wow, i couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you !!!
so what is the name of the good stuff that is solid with joinery and dowels etc that is real wood not MDF please real question
Many of these doors are sold wholesale to lumberyards. I would go to a pro-lumber yard (don't start at Home Depot) and tell them you want an alternative to the cheap doors, true stile and rail interior doors and look at your options.
Thank God. I have been calling these doors, windows & the houses they come from "Colorform houses". Flat, insubstantial & illusory.
Nice, I like that term. Thanks.
every one if this guys videos come down to "youre not spending enough money, you should be spending more"
no brent, im not made of money. show me YOUR $60 door.
ok
Rant on!
LOL, thanks!
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they want them to fall apart
Seems like it.
I’d rather have the $60 hollow door than spend 600-700 for an MDF door 🤢
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I find it very sad at how pathetically generic and cheaply made anything and everything became.
Even when items like appliances, light fixtures and nic naks were built with knowledge, skills and appreciation. That's why they were called artisans. They took extreme pride in their crafts and knew their reputations were dependent on quality and longevity.
Industrialization brought greed over dependability and reputation.
Way back in the early 90's, one of the very first things my business professor taught us is that everything is made to break. Not a coincidence that an item breaks the day after your warranty expires. Huge companies want to make sure you have to keep coming back.
I'd much rather pay for quality and skills. While having items last so long, that you can actually leave them in a will so the next generations can enjoy them.
Agreed! Thanks!!
Thanks for the info! You will probably enjoy this video on the round chair.
th-cam.com/video/5urbDBMLigs/w-d-xo.html
Thanks!!
I hate these soulless boxes they build today. Round window sills!?! No creativity at all.
True. Thx.
Keynesian economics and fiat currency are the cause
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
AMEN! This can be applied across industries too! See "fast fashion" or look at shoes... GOOD GOD look at shoes. Modern shoes are ABSOLUTE garbage. Why have we allowed ourselves to become such a disposable society? It is so disappointing.
Agreed!! Thanks.