Abandoned Stations in South London: Commercial Dock and Southwark Park
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- A twofer today - two abandoned stations in the same place! Let's stroll down to Bermondsey to learn more.
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18 MPH. Eighteen!!! Good God man, the human body will never withstand the forces involved in travelling at that insane velocity. 😁
Cow's milk will turn sour!
Windmills will turn backwards from the winds produced!
most of my childhood I went on holiday using sleeper trains which never reached that speed!!!! I think the maximum we ever got was 25km/h (the average was around 300-400km a day, but that included the stops)
That's still an incredible force on the human body
A good one Yago, "As damp and noisy as a new build".
And here, living in the US, I thought “commuter train” meant four trains a day, northbound at 07:30 and 08:30, southbound at 17:30 and 18:30. If you had a train every ten minutes, the danger is someone might use it!
To abandon one station is a misfortune, to abandon two in the same place seems uncommonly like carelessness...
Do they smoke? Steam trains should have a hobby.
A handbag?!!!
Now don’t post comments that make us Wilde!
Oscar: I wish I'd said that. Whistler: You will, Oscar, you will...
It is not carelessness, it is a bad place to place a station, far from any dock and too close to trams
I snorted at new builds catching strays. Well played Mr. Hazzard.
I'm intrigued as to the story behind that recipe for toad-in-the-hole being displayed on that viaduct... and also hungry!
And 12 minutes Greenwich to LBG?
It's only 13 now!! So, they were faster back then, with an extra stop!
Maybe Greenwich time and LondonBridge time hadn't been synchronised then ...
blame the prime meridian
2:04 There's an interesting footnote to this. When the Liverpool and Manchester Railway was being promoted, George Stephenson confidently stated that trains would reach 20 miles per hour. The lawyer William Brougham who was representing the investors said that if Stephenson did not moderate his views and bring his expectations "within a reasonable speed" he would "inevitably damn the whole thing" and be regarded as "a madman fit only for Bedlam". William Brougham became MP or Southwark in 1831.
@@DavidBromage is that why Southwark is full of 20mph speed limits?
I would love to see inside those old bricked up stations to see what remains...
My late father started his signalling career at North Kent East Junc signalbox almost the same place where railway signalling actually started and all signalmen were sworn in constables... Back in the 70's almost adjacent to what was Southwark Park used to be on the Sarson's sidemost line a coal loader and water arm. It was an unusual coal loader in that during operation a coal train would arrive to "charge" up the loader with coal and the engines would run under it to get fresh coal meaning the Central division loco's didn't have to go all the way across and down to Bricklayers getting in the way of all them fast SE division trains and eliciting haughty words from the commuting bowler hats on their Hastings DEMU who were jolly glad their train didn't stop at London Bridge lest it meant they rubbed shoulders with the oiks preferring their waiting cars at Waterloo East to whisk them to the city...
At 02:39 and 05:05 you can see a building built into the arch on the right, behind the metal railings. That was a pub, known as "The Halfway House" . That remained open until the early 70s.
Oh yes! The ultimate, ultimate in Minimalist Linear Cartography!!! You have excelled yourself, Sir!!
So well bricked up. It always makes you wonder if it's all intact inside. Obviously not, but it's fun to imagine.
Unless of course, one of the last passengers had nipped to the loo just before the station master locked up on the last day! 😮
The old toilet block inside is still there. Other than that, there's only the glazed bricks internally (I inspect the arches for a living)
@@devilman1976 Wow! Thanks. That must be a bit spooky in places. 🙂
Ah, fond memories of my wide boy youth wheeling & dealing with trade-only wholesalers operating from under those arches. You had to know the special knock !
And I've walked past there so often without realising this curious history. Nice one!
I was expecting a nod to the importance of being Ernest regarding the commercial failure of two stations... But maybe that's why I don't write TH-cam scripts
Interesting video. Thanks for sharing.
"Lumbering Industrial Plant" going on list of band names
Did you wish you could gain access and look inside the abandoned stations, i know i would.
Its interesting how much infrastructure is abandoned awesome video Jago
I do for a living, there's not much left unfortunately
@@devilman1976 thats ashame but if there's anything at all please make videos if you can
1:46 Beautiful skew arches over the water.
I've been up and down that line many many times and often thought it was quite a gap between stations on that stretch. Now I know all. thanks.
you are good at showing us the outside of so many abandoned stations. I long to see what is inside...
More fabulous maps!!
As a long time user of this line I’ve often wondered why there’s such a big gap between the stops of Deptford and London Bridge compared to the rest of the line. Almost like a real train ride.
Ride over the site in the morning…. With a video on it later in the day. That’s quite the timing…
Yep .. Even the Cartometro rail maps website has it listed as Commercial DOCK.
Also, that World's first signal box ... Did it happen to be an 'R186 Signal Box'? 😉
(If you get that reference, you're old like me, lol)
I was racking my brain about R186 Signal Box, gave up and googled it. I expect I've still got one in my parents loft from 40+ years ago.
@@ShedTV Google . . .not just there for the nasty things in life, like a blocked drain ... lol
@@AFCManUk Yellow pages. I didn't have to look that one up!
Perhaps the oddest aspect of this railway is that they chose to build it on a viaduct for its full length. Possibly the most expensive way to build a railway.
And across a flat plane - the ideal place to build a line - no need for the expense of cuttings and embankments. A railway surveyor's dream!
And all to save having a few level crossings...
Oh dear! Now I have to make a SECOND visit to South Bermondsey.
If your job was easy everyone would do it. Keep up the good work.😊
As someone who lives close to here my whole life, Having Thameslink call here would have been great. South Bermondsey station is pretty useless for the most part. trains stop ever 30 minutes, and at that rate you can either get to London bridge or any of the other stations on that line (especially with the Overground extension to Clapham Junction stopping at most of the same stops) It's not that useful overall.
I recall reading somewhere that they were considering adding it to the overground network and have trains run to London Bridge, but that i believe fell through. with the addition of the new Overground station by Millwall, SB may end up getting closed because no one will really need it. We have pretty good Bus links, Train links (especially when the Bakerloo line extension happens) and can get to London Bridge and Waterloo easily with the Jubilee line, and with recent changes to the buses, we can get to Euston easily too. as well as Liverpool Street.
It's a shame as i have fond memories when i was young using that station to get to Victoria to go to Eastbourne with my family. But unless it gets a revamp and more train traffic with the regeneration, it won't be worthwhile for the station to remain open
Grinds my gears that many significant centres of South London still don't have the rapid transport systems that are desperately needed down here.. We've just not been keeping pace with population and urbanisation growth.. Even just by extending the Croydon Tram Northwards to key areas of connectivity, such as Streatham, Brixton, Lewisham would be a good start.. Artireal rapid systems above ground through key routes could have a positive impact on congestion.. When you see the old Tram map it saddens me that we let it all go...
Ive got a burning question Jago for you whats behind all those bricked up Arches and Windows we see at abandon places must be a void or do they fill them in? Maybe there secret areas that lead to underground more secret places or just plain not in use.
Marc In Bletchley G6XEG
The heady speed of 18 mph? Southeastern Trains looks on enviously.
* 3:41By order Railtrack PLC? That's a historical rarity in its own right.
I’m sure I’ll have gone past these stations dozens of times and never knew that there were once platforms etc here. I assume there’s nothing left at rail level?
The area seems to have more population etc and a station might be handy to go north, or south
Interesting. I'd be quite interested in a reference for "it was quite popular with early train spotters" as, before today, I've never wondered just when the first spotters were. Now I must know.
27th of September 1825, I suppose.
Yes Jago I did enjoy your video as per usual!!! 😊🚂🚂🚂
~6:23, I going: tram-horse wagon collision. Oh wait; never mind. That was the conductor, not the motorman, sorry, driver.
See a lot of shops and buildings under the railway. Could you do a video on such constructions?
interesting that although the stations are closed there are a variety of shops and businesses under the viaduct
this one was interesting - wonder if it holds the record for the most stations in the same post code?
Would be cool to see inside Southwark Park station, but it looks really bricked up.
With honourable mentions to Oscar Wilde, having two abandoned stations in the same place looks like carelessness to me. There is a picture of a stretch arches in Limehouse being used for housing. @Jago, if you have JE Connor's 'Branch lines of East London' you can see them in the Limehouse section of the book.
If one were looking for stations to re-open one would be spoiled for choice! In reality, and particularly if the SE suburban services become part of TfL's portfolio, what is needed is a junction station to allow connections between the SE suburban lines (N.Kent, B'heath, Sidcup, Orpington) and the OG Windrush line (S.London and Croydon/C.Palace branches). on the South London Line branch there is a plan for a 'Canal St' station to serve Millwall FC ground - hopefully a walkway would be possible to an SE lines platform, and if that could be on the east side of the S London line, it could also connect to new platforms on the Croydon/C.Pal. line. Maybe 'Bermondsey Junction' could rival Clapham Junction.
Congratulations on 800 videos too...
Fab video once again!
The videos of JagoHazzard are *always* worth my time
Fantastic video sir, two more stations I didnt know existed until now?
'...confused for a new build.' 😂
two abandoned stations fascinating ❤
If only there were still windmills to be seen from the train between London Bridge and Greenwich...
There were proposals to re-open Camberwell and Walworth Road Stations to Thameslink trains to relieve the heavy road traffic in the area, but it never happened.
0:27 Jago, I'll show you "bricked up"
Can you do some videos on the first train journeys between major cities? Like the first London to Birmingham or London to Leeds?
Would be great to get an insight into how they were viewed and the controversies surrounding them
The very earliest days of the Great Western out of Paddington were, by some accounts, like some mad demolition derby.
And no sign of a brand new station near to Millwall football ground “The Den”. As TfL have said that the new station on Surrey Canal Road would be built.
Since the London Overground East London Line was extended to Clapham Junction and opened in 2010.
I wonder if anyone ever goes in there? I also wonder what it's like inside.
Good one jago 👍
2:44 Hahaha nice one
Time to make a video about Deptford station? It's London's oldest station still currently in use.
Although your focus tends to be how the present is shaped by the past, do you have a view on how the present may shape the future, specifically with reference to the plans for renationalisation of the railways, as outlined in yesterday's king's speech?
What was the Liverpool to Manchester line carrying if it wasn't a commuter train? Was it the emptying of the docks (like cotton to the mills in Manchester)?
Might you venture there and do a deep dive in the industrial revolution in that region? Incorporating the canals, river and ship, and the competition for trade?
🌹
Back in those days, nobody (or at least very few bodies) would live in one city if their job was in the other... not like today.
Commuter train??? It was quite literally the world's first Inter City!
Jago, i've been told that this is or was the longest viaduct in Europe but cant find any firm information on the subject. Do you know if this is true?
I was going to say the same thing!
According to Wikipedia "It is the longest run of arches in Britain". See:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge_%E2%80%93_Greenwich_Railway_Viaduct
As far as I know the longest viaduct in Europe is the so-called "Kerch Bridge" or "Crimea Bridge" at 18.1km (11¼ miles). Although it is called a bridge most of it is viaduct.
I hope this helps.
18 mph? That’s truly dangerous even in our times.
what a interesting but sad video
Based on its location could it not have been merged or offer an interchange to nearby present day South Bermondsey?
Out of interest, *did* you change the title during the edit?
What work has been done to keep such old viaducts and bridges stable after all these years?
It's a real shame that they didn't open the Thameslink station there. From what I understand the Thameslink 2000 program work was all about setting up Thameslink so that it was not sharing anyone else's track. So this station could have given local people new access to St Pancras and North London. That would be a much more significant journey than a journey just to London Bridge, so I think it would have been more successful.
I think this station would also serve as an excellent emergency turning back point, that could be used if there was ever maintenance work at London Bridge that required closing the line.
Your somewhat belated reference to the viaduct being widened is a key point which needs to be emphasised.
The original line was built on a viaduct just wide enough to accommodate 2 lines. So it looked absolutely nothing like the current behemoth.
The term 'railway viaduct' conjures up pretty negative feelings these days, but then the viaduct was an elegant, striking brick structure, marching out across the flat marshland it crossed.
To a world that had never seen a 'main line' railway, let alone a several mile long viaduct with one on top, this must have looked unbelievable magnificent and modern.
The idea of building houses under the arches, which seems so mad to us today, probably seemed quite attractive then. Imagine living under the amazing new railway - what an address!
I've seen illustrations of the proposed houses, and they actually look quite elegant!
It's possible to see the additions when below the road arch . . .
Now we have a full reverse..
Offices, housing and shops are build more and more around and above railway stations and yards in bigger cities.
Personaly i know one recent project were the entrance facade of the railway station looks like one of the shop/office entrances.
Only the railway company sign makes clear its a railway station.
het Maan kwartier ( the moon quarter) in Heerlen the Netherlands is build combining 3 historical building styles (Roman empire, ex coal mining industry and white plastered timber framing farmhouses )
In an age where steel, concrete and glass boxes are an eye sor... euh the norm its very refreshing and even a looker.
The complex has become a modern landmark of the city.
Southeast London-e residents will be much luckier and happier than Southeast Londoners.
Whatever happened to 'third time lucky'?
good evening Jago
2:42.... yep
Nothing to do with these stations - Jago, do you know whether the proportion of London Underground lines (ex. trams and overground) that are in tunnel (including cut and cover) is more or less than the proportion of HS 2 that will be in tunnel. In other words, is HS2 going to be more underground than the underground?
Grew up in bermondsey I knew something was abit odd about the bridges cheers bud.
Presumably the obvious Lady Bracknell line was immaterial?
Where does the Lady Bracknell line run to? Perhaps Jago could do a vid on it! Handbags and all.
I've never been called an optimism before.
JH does great videos, brilliant Jago
I do OK with proper pronunciation most of the time. But this video is an exception. Every time it sounds like Suffolk to me. Would you please spell it phonetically? I understand the W being silent as in Chiswick. But I simply don't hear 'ark' at the end. I also can't make out if the TH is silent or not. Real English can be challenging to persons who are not native speakers.
I believe it was the E L Ahrons, writing about the South Eastern Railway in the 19th century, who said that if the ships at the Surrey Commercial Docks had been crewed by horse marines, it might have been possible to persuade them that Commercial Dock(s) station was conveniently located....
I only watched the 1000 sub special this afternoon....
0:27 “bricked up building”
Sorry, who is little Miss Leading?
it was Miss Leadenham, but the Pork Board dropt it's sponsorship
Miss Demeanour’s little sister.
Not sure I believe that an island platform was possible on a viaduct without widening it. All such stations I know of had the platforms cantilevered out from the sides of the viaduct.
Y'know... looking from the outside as a 21century commuter, I don't really see the point of these rail companies, lines and whatever competing. There was all kinds of ways for everybody could'a ate back then.
as allways brilliant my old working area after s.e.1.
We are the waiting room to your exposed platform...
East Brixton Station, anyone?
i thought you said Dublin to Dun Laoghiare was the World's first mainland railway Jago>>>>>?????
Nope.
@@JagoHazzard in a previous video you did, clarify please????
it was the Landsdowne Road episode about 7 months ago and i got 2 likes after i said you said even before that that the railway WAS the oldest in the UK when Ireland was part of the UK...just saying
Commercial Dock; not exactly a commercial success.
Third time lucky?
OK, WHERE THE HELL IS WARK? Stop playin with my emotions, I dont even have many anyway.
. . . mistaken for a new-build . . . oh yes.
Jago, I know it wouldn't your normal kind of video....but I'd love to know your thoughts/ speculations on the re-nationalising of the UK railways (as promised by our new government). Not in terms of political aspects, but more....well....'is this the start of a new era of good things, or (as movie taglines put it) a terrifying ordeal?' Does it have potential, or will we be moving backwards?
A year before the Liverpool and Manchester opened the Bolton and Leigh railway opened. They both ended up in the London North Western.
Wow, ads in Russian?
Liverool-Manchester was not arguably the first, it was the first. All railways after were based on it.
Cool graffiti
in typical political railroad fashion,
reversing the old adage about being lucky on a the last try.
actually the 2 old adages, if I think about it.
Good golly, first! 😊
"Satire" 😆