If I was going to do a lecture about nationalist parties, I'd try to find out how to pronounce them. Underlined what I thought was a very Anglo-centic lecture.
As an American of both British and Irish descent, I have done loads of research on this issue, like Hazzard said there was famine all over Europe at the time, but the Irish one was partially the fault of British corn laws, however if the British did not rule Ireland at the time, the famine likely would still have happened, like the rest of Europe, although it cannot be know if it would have been worse or better without the British involvement. I tend to think worse, but it is up for debate!
@@FATHOLLYWOODB123 - if you looked into it, you would have read that the government of the day officially closed the soup kitchens in autumn 1847. This is incontrovertible.
@@niallcoakley7929 "government of the day" being a key phrase there. the *previous* Tory government both imported corn and shut down exports, like they did in previous famines. and when that wasn't enough, they brought in the Corn Law repeal... that ended up dividing the Tories for a generation. the Whigs then came in and did their terrible thing. the argument, then, is that Whig policy in particular is to blame - not the fact that Ireland is ruled directly from London. (for myself, i do blame direct rule a bit, but not entirely.)
@@rin_etoware_2989 I agree. At the end of the day, poor people suffer at the hands of the people with the levers of power. The emergence of warm banks and food banks in the U.K. are a modern day consequence of this and the Irish Famine was one of the most egregious examples of this in British history. However, I do not accept that the Irish Famine would have been just as bad if there had been home rule at the time, for example. Generally it is a bad idea for an island with a significant population to be governed from somewhere not on the island. The dysfunction of the modern Northern Ireland state is a example of this.
I strongly disagree with the professors point that nationalist parties are about Identity and less about ideology. However I do understand where this is coming from. Not being from your isle myself, I will not go too far with this. I am unsure if he exclusively implies nationalist parties from the United Kingdom or in general. As I feel that in the Anglo-Saxon world nationals or "patriotism is more omnipresent and generally accepted as long as we talk about the state. When it is focussed on regionalism, it is frowned upon as with Scotland, Ireland and Wales. In case of the second I strongly feel to disagree. I would surely not count "nationalism" as a full "-ism" like socialism, liberalism, etc. Moreso a tool used by political families to achieve a surtain goal, but still having core ideologic background that is more important that being "nationalst". Which is a concept that can be filled in at hoc. From French and imperial German state nationalism and current day American "patriotism" against grass roots culture and language nationalism of Brittany, the Basque region etc. State nationalism is generally "rightwinged" and "regionalism" left. And this ideologic colour is indicated by the colour of the opposite family: when you have a fascist Spain suppressing Basque language and culture, the opposition againt this is leftist. French politicized state nationalism (think FN / Le Pen) leaves no room for regionalist sympathies. While national feelings of being Frenchare important and present with the left AND right in France. In Germany, patriotism is generally shunned upon in general due to the recent historical context. So Germany is no reference material, but has influenced many neighbouring countries current day independance or regionalist movements. In Belgium, the specific circumstances around collaboration with the Nazi's during WWII has turned the Flemish independance movement from a left theme into one of the right. And here too these borders are hard.
I’m thinking quite seriously of establishing a nationalist party, based here in Slough. But, I still cannot decide whether to call it ‘ the English Party ‘, or, ‘ the England 🏴 Party ‘…
Poor or token sketch on Welsh nationalism - which is, at least, as fascinating as any nationalist politics. Saunders Lewis and chums help explain much of the extremes and nuttiness of human thought and frailty that we witnessed in the 1st half of the 20th century.
Interesting that Thatcher was so disdainful of Scottish culture, while her economic policies could not have been possible without North Sea oil to buttress the entire UK economy. Guess that means the problem with Thatcherism is you eventually run out of other people’s oil.
Thatcher wasn’t disdainful of Scotland, she was simply a unionist in the truest sense of the word, believing in an overarching Britishness. Many Scots, Irish and Welsh feel dismissed by this as to many English people the UK is simply an extension of England.
Prof. Bogdanor is talking nonsense when he states an independent Scotland would cut itself off from its biggest trading partner, England and that if an independent Scotland wished to join the EU it would be forced to adopt the Euro. It's true an independent Scotland's trading relationship with England would change but it would be no more "cut off" than any other country trading with England. Also his belief Scotland would "have" to adopt the Euro is an old chestnut promoted by the Unionist "project fear" for the 2014 referendum, with little basis in fact. Additionally he points out Scotland has a 7% financial deficit and EU joiners must have not more than 3% but he blithly ignores the 7% is based on Scotland's current position is as a constituent part of the UK not an independent country with control over its own finances. An independent Scotland would control fully the oil and gas resources in its sector of the North Sea as well as massive wind and wave power resources, not require high military spending to maintain nuclear weapons, or contribute towards costly "English" projects like the High Speed Rail, Hinkley Point nuclear power station, Cross-Rail etc etc.
Scotland could link its currency to the pound if it wished (whether it would is another matter) or indeed to any other currency in the world. Consent from the issuing country is not rrequired eg the value of the very successful Hong Kong dollar is linked to the US dollar but no consent was given or asked for.
As England's place as a Empire was in decline was seen they should've then offered self rule to all areas of Great Britain. Independence for Wales, Scotland and all of Ireland should be. England has no place dictating to it's national neighbours.
@Straight White British Protestant Wales was forced Into the "United" Kingdom through murder and brutality, don't talk nonsense. An indy Wales is coming and I can't wait 🏴
Bravo, thank you so much for sharing this.
If I was going to do a lecture about nationalist parties, I'd try to find out how to pronounce them. Underlined what I thought was a very Anglo-centic lecture.
The famine blamed ‘to some extent unfairly on British rule’ 😂
There was famine all over Europe. Only Ireland built a movement over it.
As an American of both British and Irish descent, I have done loads of research on this issue, like Hazzard said there was famine all over Europe at the time, but the Irish one was partially the fault of British corn laws, however if the British did not rule Ireland at the time, the famine likely would still have happened, like the rest of Europe, although it cannot be know if it would have been worse or better without the British involvement. I tend to think worse, but it is up for debate!
@@FATHOLLYWOODB123 - if you looked into it, you would have read that the government of the day officially closed the soup kitchens in autumn 1847. This is incontrovertible.
@@niallcoakley7929 "government of the day" being a key phrase there. the *previous* Tory government both imported corn and shut down exports, like they did in previous famines. and when that wasn't enough, they brought in the Corn Law repeal... that ended up dividing the Tories for a generation. the Whigs then came in and did their terrible thing.
the argument, then, is that Whig policy in particular is to blame - not the fact that Ireland is ruled directly from London.
(for myself, i do blame direct rule a bit, but not entirely.)
@@rin_etoware_2989 I agree. At the end of the day, poor people suffer at the hands of the people with the levers of power. The emergence of warm banks and food banks in the U.K. are a modern day consequence of this and the Irish Famine was one of the most egregious examples of this in British history.
However, I do not accept that the Irish Famine would have been just as bad if there had been home rule at the time, for example. Generally it is a bad idea for an island with a significant population to be governed from somewhere not on the island. The dysfunction of the modern Northern Ireland state is a example of this.
A truly excellent series.
Excellent - very informative. Perhaps Karen Bradley should watch this?
I strongly disagree with the professors point that nationalist parties are about Identity and less about ideology. However I do understand where this is coming from. Not being from your isle myself, I will not go too far with this. I am unsure if he exclusively implies nationalist parties from the United Kingdom or in general. As I feel that in the Anglo-Saxon world nationals or "patriotism is more omnipresent and generally accepted as long as we talk about the state. When it is focussed on regionalism, it is frowned upon as with Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
In case of the second I strongly feel to disagree. I would surely not count "nationalism" as a full "-ism" like socialism, liberalism, etc. Moreso a tool used by political families to achieve a surtain goal, but still having core ideologic background that is more important that being "nationalst". Which is a concept that can be filled in at hoc. From French and imperial German state nationalism and current day American "patriotism" against grass roots culture and language nationalism of Brittany, the Basque region etc. State nationalism is generally "rightwinged" and "regionalism" left. And this ideologic colour is indicated by the colour of the opposite family: when you have a fascist Spain suppressing Basque language and culture, the opposition againt this is leftist. French politicized state nationalism (think FN / Le Pen) leaves no room for regionalist sympathies. While national feelings of being Frenchare important and present with the left AND right in France. In Germany, patriotism is generally shunned upon in general due to the recent historical context. So Germany is no reference material, but has influenced many neighbouring countries current day independance or regionalist movements. In Belgium, the specific circumstances around collaboration with the Nazi's during WWII has turned the Flemish independance movement from a left theme into one of the right. And here too these borders are hard.
I’m thinking quite seriously of establishing a nationalist party, based here in Slough. But, I still cannot decide whether to call it ‘ the English Party ‘, or, ‘ the England 🏴 Party ‘…
Poor or token sketch on Welsh nationalism - which is, at least, as fascinating as any nationalist politics. Saunders Lewis and chums help explain much of the extremes and nuttiness of human thought and frailty that we witnessed in the 1st half of the 20th century.
wales county of England always Birkenhead Wirral the capital of not Cardiff
@@paulwilliams6929 I don't understand, is wales trying to annex land from England?
A one hour lecture with 17 ad breaks?
None of the other gresham lectures I’ve seen have had any ads. Wonder why this one is packed with them.
Not with an adblocker ;)
Nice to see British history from an English point of view
lol
Interesting that Thatcher was so disdainful of Scottish culture, while her economic policies could not have been possible without North Sea oil to buttress the entire UK economy. Guess that means the problem with Thatcherism is you eventually run out of other people’s oil.
BRILLIANT
Thatcher wasn’t disdainful of Scotland, she was simply a unionist in the truest sense of the word, believing in an overarching Britishness. Many Scots, Irish and Welsh feel dismissed by this as to many English people the UK is simply an extension of England.
FFS Averts in Gresham lectures - ruined.
Listen to "Religious atrocities in Ireland" by Prof Alec Ryrie.
Prof. Bogdanor is talking nonsense when he states an independent Scotland would cut itself off from its biggest trading partner, England and that if an independent Scotland wished to join the EU it would be forced to adopt the Euro. It's true an independent Scotland's trading relationship with England would change but it would be no more "cut off" than any other country trading with England. Also his belief Scotland would "have" to adopt the Euro is an old chestnut promoted by the Unionist "project fear" for the 2014 referendum, with little basis in fact. Additionally he points out Scotland has a 7% financial deficit and EU joiners must have not more than 3% but he blithly ignores the 7% is based on Scotland's current position is as a constituent part of the UK not an independent country with control over its own finances. An independent Scotland would control fully the oil and gas resources in its sector of the North Sea as well as massive wind and wave power resources, not require high military spending to maintain nuclear weapons, or contribute towards costly "English" projects like the High Speed Rail, Hinkley Point nuclear power station, Cross-Rail etc etc.
It would have to adopt the Euro.
It would have to adopt the euro, it won’t get to keep the pound
Scotland could link its currency to the pound if it wished (whether it would is another matter) or indeed to any other currency in the world. Consent from the issuing country is not rrequired eg the value of the very successful Hong Kong dollar is linked to the US dollar but no consent was given or asked for.
The SNP are not National Parties.
Sturgeon admitted herself she is an Internationalist before a Nationalist.
'CULTURAL CONSERVATION SOCIETY' we'll show you.
How’s the oil plans going now.😂
As England's place as a Empire was in decline was seen they should've then offered self rule to all areas of Great Britain. Independence for Wales, Scotland and all of Ireland should be. England has no place dictating to it's national neighbours.
@Straight White British Protestant Wales was forced Into the "United" Kingdom through murder and brutality, don't talk nonsense. An indy Wales is coming and I can't wait 🏴
@@jacjolly8214 Cymru Nationalism makes no sense, why would you reject the hand which feeds you?
🥇Dumbest comment award!