Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I watched this video several time and wrote my own list of steps for swr calibration. At my age (66 y/o), I tend to forget things I do not do often.
I got one of these from R&L at Dayton. Just took it out of the box a week ago. I need more videos like this from you. Well presented and easy to follow. Thank You Ape.
Over the years I've collected a box full of unmarked antennas, I purchased a LiteVNA 64 V3.1 last year but they left the instruction out... I did your calibration and measured an ADS-B antenna (it is marked 1090) and got 1090! It's a start, I think I saw you measure 1,500PF for the cable, these things leave me have a lot to learn. Your video is useful, unlike some videos that blow pass the menu picks, the menus seems to be never ending.
Your NanoVNA and TinySA videos are great. I always learn something from them. I knew about calibration and regularly save out some SWR sweeps in the memory. But I didn't know I could add more data points. That'll be nice, especially for the longer sweeps across multiple bands. Thanks!
Excellent video. Some firmwares auto recall from slot 0 on power on, so set your most used profile up there. The slots save the trace configs and marker position as well, so I set it to the middle of 40m, my most used band. You can "edit" a slot by recalling it, changing your trace configs, and saving to the slot again. You only need to re-calibrate when changing your start/stop frequencies :)
Thanks for making the Nano VNA accessible to an old school audience. I like to build an experiment with antennas and the Nano H4 is really helpful. Thanks for all the time and effort you put into these videos. Great work!
Great video as always. I'm trying to figure out on my Nano how to clear or edit one of the memory slots in the recall section. During my learning curve I stored one range that I would like to change. My version looks identical to yours. Thanks.
Last week I observed another potential pitfall to be aware of if you use the USB cable to connect to your computer. I wanted to compare a Quansheng stock antenna to a tuned aftermarket antenna. I put the stock antenna on, and loaded my calibration file. The resulting plot surprised me in that the antenna seemed worse than I anticipated. So on goes my tuned antenna, and it also exhibited SWR values that I knew had to be incorrect. So I re-calibrated, and it did not change. So then I changed the USB cable, and everything changed for the better. In fact, it then demonstrated the stock antenna had a better window of acceptable SWR in both VHF and UHF than I had anticipated. So the moral of this story is make sure your USB cable is performing properly. If in doubt, try a few of them and use a composite of the results that agree the closest.
@@TheSmokinApe My downfall is I'm rather cheap. So that means 1: I often buy my cables from China, and then 2: I hate throwing things out. So, for anyone like me (may god have mercy on their souls), if you want to continue with step #1, you need to change the habits shown in step #2!
I assume we are talking about HT antennas here? rubber duckies? helical type? If so what you are seeing is not the USB lead per se. A hand held antenna a usually a quarter wave or loaded/shortened thing attempting to be a quarter wave and as such the element of the antenna is not the total antenna system. It relies on the HT body as part of the system that makes it work and match. It may even rely on being held to match well. When you attach these antennas to measuring devices like a NanoVNA, its a complete lottery whether the conditions for a good match are met. Like you found, the particular USB lead you had attached, or whether it on a wooden or metal bench top. Its a waste of time to fret about the performance on these portable device antennas, they never had any any, and cant been bestowed with any, they are and always will be severely compromised. Take a deep breath and chant "SWR is not loss, SWR is not loss....." :) de G0AFV
@@bazzaar1869When measuring a 1/4 antenna a counterpoise is mandatory. In the case of a HT antenna, the minimum one should do is holding the NanoVNA during measurement like one would hold a HT, not laying it on a table.
The save calibration saves a ton of work and wear on the connectors too. Another great tip from the Ape Laboratories of RF Engineering and TH-cam Consultancy Group Enterprise!😂👍
I have watched a ton of videos about the nano VNA h4 and I think nobody can talk and explain things like you. That goes for all your videos. Thank you very much my friend for sharing . 73 de SY7EMB from Greece
Great video Ape! Simple and easy to understand. A lot easier explanation than the one I got when I first learned to use the HP VNA's. Thanks for these! 73
Thank you for the explanation, I am a beginner in this matter, but now I have leveled up thanks to the knowledge you share here. And one thing, i know it's weird but i do like your voice😅have a good day☕
Great explanation. I can calibrate mine to the built in SMA, but as soon as I attach an extension it goes haywire and gives wild readings. I have tried several cables, but no amount of fiddling with electrical delay or any other setting makes a difference. Any suggestions?
I just ordered an H4 last evening, and this was a great intro. Looking forward to watching more of your videos on this unit! P. S. You've got grid lines on the table, but the unit is crooked. Arrrrgh! 😂
Love your videos. Quick question could you not add the jumpers then cal the device by adding the standards to the end of the jumpers and doing the cal sequence? I think I have seen it done this way before but can not remember if that is the same as adding time to conuter the leads? Hope that all makes sence. Again love the videos and your way of bringing the subject matter down to a level that most of us can understsnd.
Hey Scott, he is a video where I used alligator clip leads, you could use coax leads or use e-delay. Alligator Test Leads and the NanoVNA th-cam.com/video/gzmrueSXteE/w-d-xo.html
Hi...thanks for the great video. If you calibrate for 40 to 10 meters like you did in the video and then want to get an SWR curve for just say 20 meters, can you adjust the start and stop frequency values to the 20 meter band without having to calibrate to the smaller range that is within the larger originally calibrated range? Thanks.
Great video, so useful! But, to adjust the reference plane (compensate for any electrical delay we might encounter), instead of adding a delay, can't we just re-calibrate the NanoVNA at the end of that cable?
Thanks Ape, may be too much for my brain. But I'm looking for a low-cost way to tune coax jumpers, length... There are plenty videos on the subject with more expensive equipment. Surely it can be done with a VNA. If so, share a video please....
Question, I have added a sma-bnc adaptor, are there bnc standards available that are reasonably priced somewhere. So I could do the calibration with the bnc connected?
Is the through port calibration needed all the time or only if you are going to use that second port? A;sp when saving calibrations in a saved location, they will automatically use the correct calibration. even though it had been turned off?
Hello, thank you for this informative video! I’m new to radiology, and If you could clarify how does your frequency range on smiths chart shrinks after electric delay introduction. But my 2.4 wifi range (I took with extra 2350MHz-2550MHz) shows huge arc that only shifts radially after delay input(I tried 1000p 500p etc)? My extension cable came with NanoVNA. Should I expect it to shrink at all?
@@TheSmokinApe Great, I just retested your values on my vna, and the result was same as yours! I'm glad. Everytime things go south I think of me breaking my nano(for me it costs fortune). Thanks for the response and clarification!
Great video Ape!! Love your content! Question: I have been trying to use my LiteVNA 64 to mark the dials on a Manual tuner, should I recalibrate for each different band that I am trying to tune. I am using a 140' delta loop and an old Dentron manual tuner. Any advice would be welcome! Again thanks for your awesome videos!
Hey Shawn, glad to hear you like the videos. I would only calibrate the sweep for the range of frequencies you want to operate on... and use that for the whole process. Good luck!
I have a question. I personally do my calibration with at least one length of the provided cable and my SO235 on the end and calibrate it like that. Would that negate the need to go in and fine tune the cable? If so, it would save a step. I had learned that this is the proper technique years ago, but I'm always willing to learn something new, thanks for the video!
@@TheSmokinApeno, I use the provided barrel connector and use the standards on the end of that. What I have is an SMA to SO235 that I screw my antenna cable into. If I calibrate it that way the end of the SO 235 should become my reference point (or close to it). That should eliminate the need to adjust for the cable length I should think. But that short cable length had more effect on the end result than I expected so I'm hoping I'm not skewing my results! Thanks for the good tips and making me aware. I'll try compensating and see if it changes my results. Cheers 🤙🏼
Great vidio. Is the lite VNA run with the same directions as the nano VNA? I got mine from R&L Electronics about 6 months ago. It seems that selecting the tabs on the right are hard. I did a screen calibration and it didn't help. Will look for a computer program to run it on my laptop with windows 11. 73's KG7COA
It should be similar, the different versions do have some variation in the firmware, make sure you are using a good stylus. The best PC software is NanoVNA-Saver: th-cam.com/video/2S0dt0bYoLs/w-d-xo.html
Why wouldn't you just calibrate it with the short extension attached ? I.e. attach the open, short, and load to the end of that short extension, because then that is where you will attach the coax and measure SWR. Maybe I'm missing something?
Hey Jeff, that is the best practice but maybe the extension doesn’t have the same attachment for your calibration standards. I really was trying to show “what is possible” not “what you should do”. Thanks for watching 👍
Thanks for the good advice. I thought the H4 only has 101 data points? Good shielding of the important parts is essential and some fake or cheap builds don't have them. This lets to scrumbled readings esp. in the higher frequencies. So most important for me is: how can you be sure what you finally get when you order one?
I the newer firmwares can go to 401 which is awesome. Whenever I get one I thoroughly test it out and upen them up to see if the correct board and shielding is in place.
good learning thanks ... question as new to this .. using vna ... got 1.5 swr but logmag showing way out anything from 20 to 60 loss , any ideas please
There are two different LogMag measurements, one is return loss (s11) where low is a good thing and the other s21 LogMag is a gain / loss measurement. It sounds like you are measuring return loss (s11) and you want that to be low.
Another good and useful video, thanks Ape. I have a small VNA which I bought in the COVID lockdown. It's done well but it's battery is starting to bulge, so I thought I would upgrade. There are so many flavours of VNA now, please can you say if the H4 is as good as any for general ham work, or are there better options? Cheers, Ace
Hey Ace, I had a battery go bad in one of mine and I replaced it on video; its somewhere on the channel. The H4 is the one I recommend to hams the most 👍
@@TheSmokinApeThanks for your help Ape, I check through your video list. Based on your advice, I may buy an H4 and replace the battery in my old 2.8 screen unit and use it as a back-up. The VNA is such a useful ham tool, I wonder how I lived without one! Best 73 Ace
Not having to calibrate every single time I use this device makes testing antennas so much easier. I just need to figure out grounding planes next. My HAM antennas go from 4.5 SWR to 1.1 SWR if I hold the base of the antenna.
Why go done-back-save? When you click done it is the save option that pops up and you just click a spot to save. Going back and then save is just an extra step..or is there a difference?
Good video Ape. PS: I asked Bard my AI friend to help with a comment and I picked this one... ""SmokinApe's video: the only thing smoother than his calibration process is his voice. " 🙂
14:00 pro tip: The speed of radio waves is about 1 ft / ns in free air or about 8 inches per ns in a cable. So you can guestimate your delay pretty easily based on cable length.
That was great. I have the nano VNA-H4 . what i was doing at first was not save the calibrations . led to extra work each time I went to use. was a learning curve . with that tester you can do so much. figure the delay in coax the velocity factor. which is needed in phasing antenna's . along with loss and reactance of coax. I used the H4 for tuning a UHF duplexer for repeater use. and so much more. love how you can save data . you can even print out the charts. they have a zipper case for that. I got that when I ordered mine. 73's
Tuning duplexers with a Nano VNA: I bought one of these with very low expectations, and it didn't disappoint. A good quality duplexer will generate -75dB to -90dB nulls when tuned carefully. The Nano VNA can only measure down to something like -50dB. As a result, you lose the bottom of the duplexer null response on the VNA display, and you can't really see what is happening. They simply don't have enough dynamic range. It's output power isn't high enough to get through the -70 odd dB nulls of a duplexer, and / or it doesn't have a sensitive enough reciever section to pick out such weak signals. I have toyed with the idea of adding an external amplifier and re-casing the whole lot, but I just haven't got around to it yet.
@@digitalradiohacker I still got the tune on a TX/RX systems used UHF duplexer used for a GMRS repeater. The nulls /notch dips to noise floor on the nano VNA , but I still found the frequency points for the HI and Low . was tricky and took time, but under power the SWR and power loss and receive loss was so much better then the old one . 73's
@@robertmeyer4744 👍👍 That's the problem - The noise floor APPEARS to be higher on one of these because the output is quite low, and this limits the precision with which you can tune duplexers. On more expensive instruments the noise floor APPEARS much lower, so you can see the real bottom of the nulls. I know what you mean though - With a Nano VNA you can get a duplexer very very close, and for a quiet area with low RF levels, you'll get half decent range from the repeater.
For low frequencies this procedure will be OK,. At the UHF band and above is better to calibrate at the end of the cable instead the S11 port. Cables have it own VSWR and can lowering directivity of the VNA. For return loss -10 dB (VSWR 2:1) or more doesn't matter but if your device under test has -26dB (VSWR 1.1:1) the error can be between +6 dB and -infinite dB if the cable has -26 dB return loss. Is better to use a female to female adaptor and set the electrical delay to the reference plane in the cable connector, only few pico seconds in negative value will be necessary. Of corse the adaptor must have very low VSWR, typically female to female SMA adapators are bellow 1.04:1 VSWR up to 1 GHz. Open doesn't matter for 30 MHz, you can just left open the connector of port S11 without the open standard. Friging capacitance are negligible at that frequencies. In Smith chart all the unity circle (the external one) is infinite VSWR, no matter the phase. Sorry for the faults, English isn't my native language. Regards from Spain.
Thanks, Ape. That helps. My next ant will be a G5RV and I will have to electronically shorten it. The nano and coil calculations should be manageable. The most difficult part? Honey, I need a few ham toys. KF0NNQ and 73.
It's pretty frustrating that with all of the different iterations of NanoVNAs that they aren't consistent when viewing videos like this, i.e., I don't seem to have the option to change sweep point count. EDIT: I do have it, it's in a different spot: *Home Menu - Config - Sweep Points FYI: changing sweep points seems to require recal based on the Cal indicator on the screen goes from "C1" to "c*"
OK Ape this is good info and well explained, I did not go thru all 156 comments, but could you tell me why you do not put your leads (as you will always use them to connect) on to do the zero test, I'm a bit confused? de ZS3LB Leon
@@TheSmokinApe Thank you Ape. I just received my new H4, so I'm just getting into it. You have also made me to think out of the box and to apply different ways to work and rectify. 73
Good video, but why does every video on calibrating and using the Nanovna describe a different process? One leaves out the isolation and thru stages. Another says put the load on the lower port for isolation. This is the first video I've found that says the sma female to female link is a standard for the thru calibration and to use it with both pigtails, others just use one pigtail to connect the ports to each other. I have a Nanovna that records SWR at 1.6 where my SWR meter records 1.1 - and I have no idea which one to trust 🫤
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I watched this video several time and wrote my own list of steps for swr calibration. At my age (66 y/o), I tend to forget things I do not do often.
Hey Gary, I tend to keep note because I forget too. THanks for watching 👍
Excellent Ape. I really struggled initially finding videos on NanoVNA basics. This is one folks should bookmark!
Thanks Colin, glad you liked it 👍
I got one of these from R&L at Dayton. Just took it out of the box a week ago. I need more videos like this from you. Well presented and easy to follow. Thank You Ape.
Hey DXP, check out my NanoVNA Playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLm8ROkpFeqornjIRLKS0RJqSrUl_lr5lv.html
Over the years I've collected a box full of unmarked antennas, I purchased a LiteVNA 64 V3.1 last year but they left the instruction out... I did your calibration and measured an ADS-B antenna (it is marked 1090) and got 1090! It's a start, I think I saw you measure 1,500PF for the cable, these things leave me have a lot to learn. Your video is useful, unlike some videos that blow pass the menu picks, the menus seems to be never ending.
Glad it was helpful, good luck testing all those antennas
Your NanoVNA and TinySA videos are great. I always learn something from them. I knew about calibration and regularly save out some SWR sweeps in the memory. But I didn't know I could add more data points. That'll be nice, especially for the longer sweeps across multiple bands. Thanks!
Thanks Mike, I am glad to hear the videos are helpful 👍
Great Job Ape I need to get mine out and do this
Chip chop son!
Great stuff, thanks! Have you considered putting all of the NanoVNA videos into a Play List?
Here you go: th-cam.com/play/PLm8ROkpFeqornjIRLKS0RJqSrUl_lr5lv.html
Really appreciate videos like this Ape, they will be a reference for many amateurs for years to come.
Thanks for checking it out Bob!
Excellent video. Some firmwares auto recall from slot 0 on power on, so set your most used profile up there. The slots save the trace configs and marker position as well, so I set it to the middle of 40m, my most used band.
You can "edit" a slot by recalling it, changing your trace configs, and saving to the slot again. You only need to re-calibrate when changing your start/stop frequencies :)
You are correct, thanks for the info 👍
Thanks for making the Nano VNA accessible to an old school audience. I like to build an experiment with antennas and the Nano H4 is really helpful. Thanks for all the time and effort you put into these videos. Great work!
Hey Mike, glad to hear the videos are helpful 👍
Can't make it any easier than that! Great show!
You damn right! Thanks for watching bro 👀
Great video as always. I'm trying to figure out on my Nano how to clear or edit one of the memory slots in the recall section. During my learning curve I stored one range that I would like to change. My version looks identical to yours. Thanks.
Last week I observed another potential pitfall to be aware of if you use the USB cable to connect to your computer. I wanted to compare a Quansheng stock antenna to a tuned aftermarket antenna. I put the stock antenna on, and loaded my calibration file. The resulting plot surprised me in that the antenna seemed worse than I anticipated. So on goes my tuned antenna, and it also exhibited SWR values that I knew had to be incorrect. So I re-calibrated, and it did not change. So then I changed the USB cable, and everything changed for the better. In fact, it then demonstrated the stock antenna had a better window of acceptable SWR in both VHF and UHF than I had anticipated. So the moral of this story is make sure your USB cable is performing properly. If in doubt, try a few of them and use a composite of the results that agree the closest.
That’s a pretty good tip, thank you 👍
@@TheSmokinApe
My downfall is I'm rather cheap. So that means 1: I often buy my cables from China, and then 2: I hate throwing things out. So, for anyone like me (may god have mercy on their souls), if you want to continue with step #1, you need to change the habits shown in step #2!
I assume we are talking about HT antennas here? rubber duckies? helical type? If so what you are seeing is not the USB lead per se. A hand held antenna a usually a quarter wave or loaded/shortened thing attempting to be a quarter wave and as such the element of the antenna is not the total antenna system. It relies on the HT body as part of the system that makes it work and match. It may even rely on being held to match well. When you attach these antennas to measuring devices like a NanoVNA, its a complete lottery whether the conditions for a good match are met. Like you found, the particular USB lead you had attached, or whether it on a wooden or metal bench top. Its a waste of time to fret about the performance on these portable device antennas, they never had any any, and cant been bestowed with any, they are and always will be severely compromised. Take a deep breath and chant "SWR is not loss, SWR is not loss....." :)
de G0AFV
@@bazzaar1869When measuring a 1/4 antenna a counterpoise is mandatory. In the case of a HT antenna, the minimum one should do is holding the NanoVNA during measurement like one would hold a HT, not laying it on a table.
Showing that e delay and how to adjust was totally helpful in why my measurements were off. Thank you so much!
Glad it helped Tom 👍
The save calibration saves a ton of work and wear on the connectors too.
Another great tip from the Ape Laboratories of RF Engineering and TH-cam Consultancy Group Enterprise!😂👍
Yeah, the save is great. Thanks for watching Don!
I have watched a ton of videos about the nano VNA h4 and I think nobody can talk and explain things like you. That goes for all your videos. Thank you very much my friend for sharing .
73 de SY7EMB from Greece
GLad to hear the videos are helpful, thank you for watching 👍
I thought I needed to change the scale but couldn't find anybody talking about it Thanks!
Glad it was helpful 👍
Crikey!,
That was so well explained that even I could understand it.
Thanks for a great video.
Haha, glad to hear you liked it Mike!
great, thanks! pls more vna vids
I’m sure more are coming, thanks for watching 👍
OUTSTANDING VIDEO!! i learned stuff about those i did not know! thanks!73!!
Howdy Bigboy, glad you liked it broter!
Great video, outstanding explanation of the subject.Thanks a lot.
Thanks for watching Mario, glad you liked it 👍
Great bit on adjusting the time delay for a coax using the smith chart.
Makes sense balancing out he Cap and Imp.
@@glenncummings1326 glad you liked it Glen, thanks for watching 👍
I didn't know you could adjust the delay? Is that an option instead of recalibrating with the cable connected?
Yeah, that's why you would do it 👍
Great video Ape! Simple and easy to understand. A lot easier explanation than the one I got when I first learned to use the HP VNA's. Thanks for these! 73
Thanks man, glad you liked it 👍
Best explanation I’ve seen.
Thanks Joe, glad you liked it 👍
All calibrated and ready to rock. Thank you!
Awesome, good luck with it...
Thank you for the explanation, I am a beginner in this matter, but now I have leveled up thanks to the knowledge you share here. And one thing, i know it's weird but i do like your voice😅have a good day☕
Glad it was helpful, thank you for watching 👍
I was wondering if rather than use the E-delay, would it make more sense to calibrate it with the test cable in place?
I think either will get you where you are going. There are some cases where I could see an argument for using one of the other.
great video, thank you!
Glad you found it helpful 👍
Great explanation. I can calibrate mine to the built in SMA, but as soon as I attach an extension it goes haywire and gives wild readings. I have tried several cables, but no amount of fiddling with electrical delay or any other setting makes a difference. Any suggestions?
Are the extension cables "good" meaning quality with no problems? What if you calibrate with the cables attached?
I just ordered an H4 last evening, and this was a great intro. Looking forward to watching more of your videos on this unit!
P. S. You've got grid lines on the table, but the unit is crooked. Arrrrgh! 😂
Glad the video was helpful, and yes I’m not good at grid lines. Thanks for checking it out 👍
Love your videos. Quick question could you not add the jumpers then cal the device by adding the standards to the end of the jumpers and doing the cal sequence? I think I have seen it done this way before but can not remember if that is the same as adding time to conuter the leads? Hope that all makes sence. Again love the videos and your way of bringing the subject matter down to a level that most of us can understsnd.
Hey Scott, he is a video where I used alligator clip leads, you could use coax leads or use e-delay.
Alligator Test Leads and the NanoVNA
th-cam.com/video/gzmrueSXteE/w-d-xo.html
Hi...thanks for the great video. If you calibrate for 40 to 10 meters like you did in the video and then want to get an SWR curve for just say 20 meters, can you adjust the start and stop frequency values to the 20 meter band without having to calibrate to the smaller range that is within the larger originally calibrated range? Thanks.
You can, and It do that however the best practice is to recalibrate 👍
Great video, so useful! But, to adjust the reference plane (compensate for any electrical delay we might encounter), instead of adding a delay, can't we just re-calibrate the NanoVNA at the end of that cable?
Yes, you could re-calibrate.
Thanks Ape, may be too much for my brain. But I'm looking for a low-cost way to tune coax jumpers, length...
There are plenty videos on the subject with more expensive equipment. Surely it can be done with a VNA. If so, share a video please....
Very good. I personally have learned tons from your Nanovna vids. Powerful tool if understood. You are doing the good work buddy! KØATV
Thank you, glad yo hear the videos are helpful 👍
Question, I have added a sma-bnc adaptor, are there bnc standards available that are reasonably priced somewhere. So I could do the calibration with the bnc connected?
You can find them if you look around mfjenterprises.com/products/mfj-252 Google “bnc calibration standard” and yes you can use them 👍
Is the through port calibration needed all the time or only if you are going to use that second port? A;sp when saving calibrations in a saved location, they will automatically use the correct calibration. even though it had been turned off?
Yes, the thru cal is for when you are using two ports. The saved calibrations persist even when turned off 👍
Hugely helpful, thank you.
Glad to hear it HT 👍
If you have a swr setting saved when you move location do I have to do the calabration every time newbie just received my unit .
No, you are calibrating the device not the environment
ok, got'er sorted. thanks for a great video howto!
Glad it helped 👍
Very informative.
Can you just calibrate with the lead attached, instead of setting the E delay?
Cheers
You can
@@TheSmokinApe
Thanks. Great channel. Your videos. Helped me a geat deal.
Cheers!
Mick
2E0IZT
Glad to hear they are helpful 👍
Hello, thank you for this informative video!
I’m new to radiology, and If you could clarify how does your frequency range on smiths chart shrinks after electric delay introduction. But my 2.4 wifi range (I took with extra 2350MHz-2550MHz) shows huge arc that only shifts radially after delay input(I tried 1000p 500p etc)?
My extension cable came with NanoVNA. Should I expect it to shrink at all?
The e-dalay adjusts the Nano to account for added transmission like that was not part of the calibration.
@@TheSmokinApe Great, I just retested your values on my vna, and the result was same as yours! I'm glad. Everytime things go south I think of me breaking my nano(for me it costs fortune). Thanks for the response and clarification!
When you do the thru calibration, why do you connect the two cables together first? Why not just connect a single cable to S11 and S21?
Because I will be using both in the test, so I want both to be part of the calibration 👍
Great video Ape!! Love your content! Question: I have been trying to use my LiteVNA 64 to mark the dials on a Manual tuner, should I recalibrate for each different band that I am trying to tune. I am using a 140' delta loop and an old Dentron manual tuner. Any advice would be welcome! Again thanks for your awesome videos!
Hey Shawn, glad to hear you like the videos. I would only calibrate the sweep for the range of frequencies you want to operate on... and use that for the whole process. Good luck!
I have a question. I personally do my calibration with at least one length of the provided cable and my SO235 on the end and calibrate it like that. Would that negate the need to go in and fine tune the cable? If so, it would save a step. I had learned that this is the proper technique years ago, but I'm always willing to learn something new, thanks for the video!
It would just mean your reference plane is the end of that cable. I think you are fine with that given this is ham radio. Do you have pl259 standards?
@@TheSmokinApeno, I use the provided barrel connector and use the standards on the end of that. What I have is an SMA to SO235 that I screw my antenna cable into. If I calibrate it that way the end of the SO 235 should become my reference point (or close to it). That should eliminate the need to adjust for the cable length I should think. But that short cable length had more effect on the end result than I expected so I'm hoping I'm not skewing my results!
Thanks for the good tips and making me aware. I'll try compensating and see if it changes my results. Cheers 🤙🏼
@@blackpearlvoyager4174 good luck with it 🍻
how to clear the calibration memory...thanks
Use the reset function in the menu 👍
Great vidio. Is the lite VNA run with the same directions as the nano VNA? I got mine from R&L Electronics about 6 months ago. It seems that selecting the tabs on the right are hard. I did a screen calibration and it didn't help. Will look for a computer program to run it on my laptop with windows 11. 73's KG7COA
It should be similar, the different versions do have some variation in the firmware, make sure you are using a good stylus. The best PC software is NanoVNA-Saver: th-cam.com/video/2S0dt0bYoLs/w-d-xo.html
Why wouldn't you just calibrate it with the short extension attached ? I.e. attach the open, short, and load to the end of that short extension, because then that is where you will attach the coax and measure SWR. Maybe I'm missing something?
Hey Jeff, that is the best practice but maybe the extension doesn’t have the same attachment for your calibration standards. I really was trying to show “what is possible” not “what you should do”. Thanks for watching 👍
Question, can you use a nanoVNA to calibrate a frequency counter?
No, you could do it with a TinySA 👍
Good video, thank you.👍
Thanks, glad you liked it!
Thanks for the good advice. I thought the H4 only has 101 data points? Good shielding of the important parts is essential and some fake or cheap builds don't have them. This lets to scrumbled readings esp. in the higher frequencies. So most important for me is: how can you be sure what you finally get when you order one?
I the newer firmwares can go to 401 which is awesome. Whenever I get one I thoroughly test it out and upen them up to see if the correct board and shielding is in place.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to calibrate the vna at the end of the cable instead of using the delay?
It would
good learning thanks ... question as new to this .. using vna ... got 1.5 swr but logmag showing way out anything from 20 to 60 loss , any ideas please
There are two different LogMag measurements, one is return loss (s11) where low is a good thing and the other s21 LogMag is a gain / loss measurement. It sounds like you are measuring return loss (s11) and you want that to be low.
ok not good then ,,, thanks .. needs to do new cable thanks info ,,, keep up the good work
@@TheSmokinApe
Thanks bro 👍
Learned a lot from this…thanks!
Awesome, thanks for watching 👍
Can you recommend an attenuator for a typical NanoVNA? Thank you K5TGS
It’s going to depend on the device you are testing, I’ve bought multiples f Amazon with no issues 👍
If you use aRF cable at the S11 port then you can do a calibration as normal and then the cable is part of the cal and is calibrated out.
Right
Can you set this up also to show 50ohm like some will have it x =
Yeah, I can do that 👍
@@TheSmokinApe I'm trying to figure it out and the instructions are crap that come with it
Is there a way to go from Smith Chart to the Descartes' x/y graphing and SWR as a bell curve.
Yes, Trace 1 is set up for S11 and you can change the format to SWR.
@@TheSmokinApeTHX.
Another good and useful video, thanks Ape. I have a small VNA which I bought in the COVID lockdown. It's done well but it's battery is starting to bulge, so I thought I would upgrade. There are so many flavours of VNA now, please can you say if the H4 is as good as any for general ham work, or are there better options? Cheers, Ace
Hey Ace, I had a battery go bad in one of mine and I replaced it on video; its somewhere on the channel. The H4 is the one I recommend to hams the most 👍
@@TheSmokinApeThanks for your help Ape, I check through your video list. Based on your advice, I may buy an H4 and replace the battery in my old 2.8 screen unit and use it as a back-up. The VNA is such a useful ham tool, I wonder how I lived without one! Best 73 Ace
Not having to calibrate every single time I use this device makes testing antennas so much easier.
I just need to figure out grounding planes next. My HAM antennas go from 4.5 SWR to 1.1 SWR if I hold the base of the antenna.
Yeah, saved calibration is a great thing. I am assuming you are testing HTs which is difficult 👍
@@TheSmokinApe Yep.
Why go done-back-save? When you click done it is the save option that pops up and you just click a spot to save. Going back and then save is just an extra step..or is there a difference?
Ya know, that's a good question. I've just always done it this way 🤔
Good video Ape. PS: I asked Bard my AI friend to help with a comment and I picked this one... ""SmokinApe's video: the only thing smoother than his calibration process is his voice. " 🙂
LOL!
I have the sw-102 and I am getting different readings on swr than my nano vna, is there any way to see what’s correct
Compare them both to a 50ohm dummy load or some other known impedance 👍
@@TheSmokinApe ok thanks I will try it
Good luck with it
14:00 pro tip: The speed of radio waves is about 1 ft / ns in free air or about 8 inches per ns in a cable. So you can guestimate your delay pretty easily based on cable length.
Thanks man 👍
If I want to calibrate for 11 meters, would I use a 75 ohm load?
No, all CB stuff I’ve used it 50 ohm 👍
That was great. I have the nano VNA-H4 . what i was doing at first was not save the calibrations . led to extra work each time I went to use. was a learning curve . with that tester you can do so much. figure the delay in coax the velocity factor. which is needed in phasing antenna's . along with loss and reactance of coax. I used the H4 for tuning a UHF duplexer for repeater use. and so much more. love how you can save data . you can even print out the charts. they have a zipper case for that. I got that when I ordered mine. 73's
Hey Robert, that H4 is the one I recommend to hams the most 👍
Tuning duplexers with a Nano VNA:
I bought one of these with very low expectations, and it didn't disappoint.
A good quality duplexer will generate -75dB to -90dB nulls when tuned carefully.
The Nano VNA can only measure down to something like -50dB.
As a result, you lose the bottom of the duplexer null response on the VNA display, and you can't really see what is happening.
They simply don't have enough dynamic range. It's output power isn't high enough to get through the -70 odd dB nulls of a duplexer, and / or it doesn't have a sensitive enough reciever section to pick out such weak signals.
I have toyed with the idea of adding an external amplifier and re-casing the whole lot, but I just haven't got around to it yet.
Yes, dynamic range can be a bit of an issue on these. Thanks for the comment!
@@digitalradiohacker I still got the tune on a TX/RX systems used UHF duplexer used for a GMRS repeater. The nulls /notch dips to noise floor on the nano VNA , but I still found the frequency points for the HI and Low . was tricky and took time, but under power the SWR and power loss and receive loss was so much better then the old one . 73's
@@robertmeyer4744
👍👍
That's the problem - The noise floor APPEARS to be higher on one of these because the output is quite low, and this limits the precision with which you can tune duplexers. On more expensive instruments the noise floor APPEARS much lower, so you can see the real bottom of the nulls.
I know what you mean though - With a Nano VNA you can get a duplexer very very close, and for a quiet area with low RF levels, you'll get half decent range from the repeater.
The Nano King!
Thanks for checking it out FEP 👍
👍Thank you sir.
Thanks for watching 👍
very clear cut and concise. Thank you!
Glad you liked it Jeffrey 👍
I hear the swr is estimated and not accurate. The nanovna says my ocfd is 1.5 or better, radio says it’s 2.75 or worse.
That’s a pretty big difference, I’d test them both against a dummy load and see what f there is a difference 👍
For low frequencies this procedure will be OK,. At the UHF band and above is better to calibrate at the end of the cable instead the S11 port. Cables have it own VSWR and can lowering directivity of the VNA. For return loss -10 dB (VSWR 2:1) or more doesn't matter but if your device under test has -26dB (VSWR 1.1:1) the error can be between +6 dB and -infinite dB if the cable has -26 dB return loss. Is better to use a female to female adaptor and set the electrical delay to the reference plane in the cable connector, only few pico seconds in negative value will be necessary. Of corse the adaptor must have very low VSWR, typically female to female SMA adapators are bellow 1.04:1 VSWR up to 1 GHz.
Open doesn't matter for 30 MHz, you can just left open the connector of port S11 without the open standard. Friging capacitance are negligible at that frequencies.
In Smith chart all the unity circle (the external one) is infinite VSWR, no matter the phase.
Sorry for the faults, English isn't my native language.
Regards from Spain.
Thanks for the additional details 👍
Another bad ass video brought to you by Smoking Ape ! So simple that even a caveman, or ape, can do it ! YOU ROCK APE ! K5MGW - Mark - 73
Thanks FB, glad you liked it 😮
Thanks, Ape. That helps. My next ant will be a G5RV and I will have to electronically shorten it. The nano and coil calculations should be manageable. The most difficult part? Honey, I need a few ham toys. KF0NNQ and 73.
Hey Bill, sounds like we married the same woman!
It's pretty frustrating that with all of the different iterations of NanoVNAs that they aren't consistent when viewing videos like this, i.e., I don't seem to have the option to change sweep point count.
EDIT: I do have it, it's in a different spot:
*Home Menu - Config - Sweep Points
FYI: changing sweep points seems to require recal based on the Cal indicator on the screen goes from "C1" to "c*"
I’m d see if there is a newer firmware for yours 👍
I've only got 101 sweep points
It can vary on the model and firmware version.
Good video, helped to decide to not buy one. To much for my old tired brain.
Haha, thanks for watching Glenn 👍
Good explanation of the basics, but this was supposed to be expert tips and tricks. You can lose most of the video.
What is complex to some is simple to others.
@@TheSmokinApe no. This was very much a how to get started video.
Maybe they're tips "from" an expert or tips on "How to become an expert." (You have to start somewhere!)
@@ashemoski That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
@@donepearce I'm sorry, you apparently *are* an expert. Perhaps you should do some videos.
Got my son one for Xmas and they sent two don’t know how that happened 😂that’s my story 🥱
Nice!
OK Ape this is good info and well explained, I did not go thru all 156 comments, but could you tell me why you do not put your leads (as you will always use them to connect) on to do the zero test, I'm a bit confused? de ZS3LB Leon
Sorry man, not entirely sure what you are asking
@@TheSmokinApe To calibrate/open/close/load with the lead, instead of rectifying it later to get it back to 0. I hope this makes sense?
It does, an I do calibrations with and without the leads. Depending on what I am testing and where I want my reference plane to be located.
@@TheSmokinApe Thank you Ape. I just received my new H4, so I'm just getting into it. You have also made me to think out of the box and to apply different ways to work and rectify. 73
@@lmy5pence481 awesome, good luck with it 👍
Good video, but why does every video on calibrating and using the Nanovna describe a different process? One leaves out the isolation and thru stages. Another says put the load on the lower port for isolation. This is the first video I've found that says the sma female to female link is a standard for the thru calibration and to use it with both pigtails, others just use one pigtail to connect the ports to each other. I have a Nanovna that records SWR at 1.6 where my SWR meter records 1.1 - and I have no idea which one to trust 🫤
There are a few calibration methods depending on the measurement you are making. That said, don’t have a known load you can compare both to?