I ordered some baofang commie tracking devices that I’m psyched never showed up and I got a refund on. I ordered them before looking in to the options and functionality differences at all. Another cool piece of gear to grab is a “SLNT bag”, their dry bags are multi functional and can assist you in going completely dark in the event of a peer on peer conflict where they have the capability to track radio frequencies.
Bro... I can't even figure out my XTS 2500/PRC153... now you're throwing in all this new stuff. Now I know how my grandma felt when I had to explain her TV remote.
MPU5 is designed to be more simple than ever. They have apps developed for the RDC that autodetect video input, ethernet adapters allow for control of camera gimbals and other robotics and most of it is just plug and play. The manet network autodetects and adds nodes. Any single one of these capabilities on other radios requires a lot of training - It's quite impressive.
There are those out there who can program them. You can get and download the software. It is tricky at first. The problem is you need a key and sp device for encryption.
It took the first 5 mins of this video for me to finally realize what made this device special. Thanks for breaking it down somewhat for simpletons to understand
In my unit we called this radio the Net warrior ii system. We ranMBITR2 types. I also used the Net warrior on back in the day. The new radio was dope, much portential and flexibility. I was the Plt RTO for Net warrior 1 and Company RTO for Net warrior 2. I felt like playing a vidoe game, battle tracking was a breeze, command and control relayed beautifully. We used it greatly during training ops. It was cool to text Battalion or text the bird in the air. I would pack the old radio and my commander actually kept it old school and wanted to talk on the man packpack. It made me think of Nam and the on song playing. Iron6R
DoD has been pushing mesh-based net-centric warfare for over 30 years now. Army and Land Warfare units are way downstream of a lot of the evolution in this space since priority goes to Aerospace. It's finally trickling to the lowest-level, almost inconsequential elements now.
This is truly awesome tech. I really hope this tech will become affordable and and available. I know you can buy individual components that can do parts of what that radio can do but you would be using multiple systems to do what that one radio can do and do better. I would love to learn more on this system. Thanks for creating this video and thanks to Persistent Systems.
It's also vital to aknowledge that with data routing and meshing radios, you are transmitting pretty much all the time with the radios sending data and saying hello to each other. That's ideal for an adversory with modern EW equipment to map out your troop's location, composition and organization with your constant EM output. Utilizing EMCON should be common knowledge, if you have a radio, you should know when to not use it.
It'd be interesting to hear a bit more about how it performs in a contested RF environment when you have things like jamming or other EW assets at play. That seems to be the big difference between the MPU5 and the Silvus radios. MPU5 has a ton of features from layer 2 and up, but seems to lack in things like the waveform or even the ability to do proper TX beamforming which is pretty surprising. Although there was a job opening a while ago for an RF engineer with SDR experience, so maybe that's gonna change with the MPU6.
In Aerospace, they've gone to narrow beam directional Low Probability Intercept Data Links on F-22A, JSF series, B-2A, B-21A. Not even CCIP I & II Late Block F-16CM+ has any of that.
FCC filings for the Wave Relay radio point to standard 802.11 specs. Short answer...if your home wifi is susceptible to jamming, this is too. Seems to me they took a Nighthawk router and gave it a DC power supply.
My little group of guys use Motorola xts5000, which is plenty good enough for us. The MPU5 is cool, but $20k - $30k for a communication setup as a Citizen is a waste of money in my opinion. You could use that money for training, ammo, preps, and etc... Most Citizen's would not use most of the features on the MPU5, but for military use, it would be extremely beneficial. Coordinating with different units, assests, command, and etc, from one unit is fantastic, but as a Citizen's, it doesn't make sense in the cost to benefit category.
Citizens don't need it, but the military does??? Just because citizens taxes pay for it? Any group of people could get great value from mobile comms like this... Just like a smart phone (which now cost $1000+ for some models) anyone could get value from this. Search and rescue, emergency response, event coordination, any use case where many people need to communicate over their own comms link... Especially in environments where the comms infrastructure does not exist or cannot be trusted. Yes, building comms networks cost $$$ but don't pretend civilians don't have a need for these as well. The only issue is funding... Get a group together to consolidate funds vs govt unlimited taxes and national debt to fund purchases.
@@save2a4allhis point is that most civilians will never be able to afford a system costing almost $30,000, and most civilians are not coms experts and would not put in the effort to figure everything out.
Coming from Ukraine, would love more on how these handle in contested environments where EW is a common thing. Also, love these longer form videos, but also miss the two minute/team room Tuesdays
I just want to say thank you guys for sharing this amazing info technology to this mortal and i think many old and new RO are having a good time watching this video. Great job 👏 thanks again 👍
Ran many ops with a 163, and it is excellent for small inter-teams Coms and even pushed long distance. But the capability really expands when you throw a 158 in the mix in a squad which pushes that TSM out much further, in effect joining multiple nets.
It's painful to watch the incremental obsolescence in motion over the past 30 years. Helmet-based interface was already done quite well with Land Warrior, but the Army has gone backwards to a chest-mounted tablet display. AeroEs need to step in and unjack this whole disconnected tech evolution spaghetti in the Army.
Marine 06xx here. My unit has old radios--we just got rid of our last 150. We mainly use RT-1796s, 1949s and 1916s in their various forms. I also own some MBITRs. I would love the chance to get my hands on some of these, but I'm not sure I could justify the use case for our mission. I'm sure we could make more use out of the old 148s too other than taking them out of the cage and counting them once a week.
Come to 2nd MLG we have some fun high speed stuff MPU5/EUD , Starlink/router, I’m a 0631 btw and I’ve had a chance to mess with it all. one thing I will say about mpu5 it really fit my units mission set
Army 25U, I got to use these with the EUDs along with the bots, only problem I noticed was that the PTT was very finicky and prone to being damaged and a source of failure.
I think it would be interesting to see a deep dive video just on the screen. As trivial as it may seem, I'd love to see some of the pros and cons of using it versus other end user devices and the functionality that can be leveraged through various APKs for different use cases. Obviously the MPU5 gets a lot of diverse use, so the sky is the limit, but I think demonstrating some of its more unique capabilities would help people realize why the MPU5 is a worthwhile investment.
What I find most interesting is this "radio" runs Android OS, specifically Android 9 Pie (at least according to their website). With that in mind I wonder if the older OS is vulnerable to some CVE's. Additionally, it would be interesting to see someone build out the same functionality on AOSP and be able to port it to any device.
It runs WR OS2.2 which is a Android 9.0 compatible but does not have the vulnerabilities and is maintained and constantly upgraded per Firm ware for free against RED team attacks
Awesome video and great gear! What I'd love to see is how to set up a squad/plt comms system with people running mostly baofengs or similar lower end radios for the prepared citizen. Basically a "how to squad comms structure".
Nice. These advance comm radios behave as if they are in itself routers/relay-repeaters besides being receivers/transmitters. It is using ROIP. With their encryption or scrambling circuits, I wonder what lag do they have.
This is something that should be set up at ALL times (even in Garrison), so that EVERYONE depending on these systems can not only become familiar with them, but maintain their proficiency with the capabilities. In the SOF world, they should be using these systems for EVERYTHING, from range operations to jump operations to exercises. Not only should the long-tabbers be running these systems at ALL times, but so should the support communications dets/companies. It's great that these systems are running ROIP, but in the end, the system needs a gateway (Joint Base Station?) to be able to extend out. The real "sticking point" will be when Big SOF communications (112th SIG, JCSE, etc.) fall in on top of another Organization (SFG, etc.) and work together. This needs to be constantly worked and exercised so everyone knows how it all works. What you DON'T want to happen, is OIF I, when SF Groups were all of the sudden given Platoons/Detachments of Communicators that they had NEVER worked with before and had NO idea how to employ them correctly. I retired in 2011, after 22 years as a communicator. 17 years on Jump Status and 15 of those years supporting Special Operations in SOCEUR Sig Det, QRC/JCSE and 7 years at 10th SFG.
Interested in seeing this lined up capability-wise against other waveforms. Listening at 28:00 and hearing hopping use as ALE instead of ECCM is weird.
163s are definitely an upgrade to 152s due to the addition of TSM, cross banding, and the ability to connect your atak to the radio. It’s mainly only good for RTOs though because it’s too complex for an infantryman or even fires. Our Commexs aren’t usually “oh yeah your cables fucked” it’s more of “oh you had three different settings that were wrong.” TSM does work fine on them. Idk much about MPU5s but everyone claims they’re the next best thing since you can create a mission plan on just one of them then broadcast it to all the other radios so you don’t have to load every radio individually due to pretty much setting up a server that the other mpu5s can join
What I understand; If you have 2 sectors you need a 3rd between to connect network and the 4th to pass info to the base because of the distance so at the base, 5th and 6th lets you hear and watch the 1st and 2nd cameras live on 2 monitors or a smart tv...That's the least amount you need to have.
Chat and CoT packets, probably worked fine, but I'm assuming you weren't pulling video, were you? How about points with a photo attached? We did some work with ANW2 years ago, it was cool but pretty limiting as I remember.
I appreciate the video and the extensive knowledge of both of these individuals. However they definitely talked over my head for about 20 minutes before they brought it into knuckle dragger terms but none the less they did intrept for me
I’m interested in hearing about rf emission control with this system. Can the user decide when or what type of broadcasts the radio is making while retaining the ability to receive?
Im curious, what does the MPU5 do better than the 163? The datasheet seems to list that it is able to do more than the MPU5 but im guessing that's mainly marketing hype.
Could you do your next video segment on operations in a contested environment? I would love to know how it performs against EW threats. I'd also be curious how SATCOM or call for fire missions are completed using just an MPU-5 since you made reference to a JTAC not needing to carry two radios anymore.
I've not used either yet, but from what I've heard and read, Silvus seems to be the better option on that end. Also, the 802.11 hardware doesn't instill a ton of confidence from a security perspective, but I'm sure they've addressed that.
Still would need to have a roiped satcom or green radio if that’s your thing. The idea though is that 1 person carrying 2 radios gives the manet/local group the capability of both radios without each individual physically carrying them
my unit used these, and we had to run the ROIP cable to their 152s, but we made a ROIP Chanel net on the programming software so it eliminated the need to have dual PTTs and run another 152 for another net.
@@fosatechSilvus is what we used back in the day to tether our WOLFHOUND and VROD DF systems into co-op mode, it worked really well. A team at 10SFG was having hardware and connectivity issues with their MPU-5s and ultimately scrapped using them as a result
33:18 "The DB goes up when its a different polorization". Hmm In amateur radio we're taught that different polorizations cause signal loss as you have a vertical hitting a horizontal only that thin area that connects is getting the signal. Draw a "+" How much area is touching. Now Draw two "I's II" Much higher touching going on. Even in Digital modes.
I'd love to see a video like this for patrol/tactical radio setups for civilians. I really had a hard time trying to figure out my comms setup bc there just aren't a lot of options out there. And most of the best HAM channels don't focus on how to use the radios in a combat role. Most, if not all, radios and support equipment are geared for military use and radios civilians can't get. So content going over that would be amazing.
Would love to hear how these more advanced MANET systems can operate with legacy systems that are already fielded. More specifically would there be a benefit to a single mpu5 integrated into a team operating on p25/dmr platforms?
Not necessarily. The benefit would come from replacing existing radios with mpu5’s and roiping one of your p25 platforms to the mpu5. That way everyone has access to the roip over the Manet plus the MIMO benefits of mpu5
Awesome video! You mentioned a lot of people not having good experiences with the PRC-163’s, i was curious to know what you heard about them? I’m by no means a radio expert, but I’ve used the 163 and the 152 a fair bit and I’m a pretty big fan of the 163, atleast in comparison with the 152, as my only radio experience is military radios such as the 117, 152, 153 and now the 163. What are your thoughts?
Pretty freaking neat but I’m more in the uv5r with a Nagoya antenna budget. I feel like I gotta add that if an fcc reaper blows me up I’m ok with that lol I understand the application for this pricey bad boy but realistically for the bulk of us dumb poors in this comment section have plenty of other sheet to worry about
You are more in the anti-radiation missle seeking onto me with the potential of killing my whole family budget Seriously rarely use it to transmit only listen and transmit in emergency look into meshtastic its also very budget friendly and safer/encrypted etc. and is what should be used for non emergency mesaaging that dont need voice as well as atak integration
Inner Soul System vibrates in conscious or without. Step controllet inside n awareness of subtil energies which lure soul destiny n flips purpose sometimes...
Probably a limited response but what about jamming, burnthrough, capabilities, etc.. This is essentially a data link protocol without a necos. Cool system, but leaves me curious.
hehehehehe, getting caught up to teamspeak2 from 20 years ago with voip. (not tossing shade, just kind of humorous how long it takes different groups of nerds to share ideas)
It's really interesting to see that this sort of thing is JUST NOW being utilized in the exact way people thought mess networking could be. I set something similar up at work for our forklift operators....its a huge pain in the dick to program but, once it works all you can bitch about are the batteries lol
The benefits of being able to radio hop is great most of the time. But I can foresee this leading to some micro management from higher ups that ultimately will be super annoying and unhelpful.
Excellent video, thanks! I have a question, my knowledge base on paradigm that if higher frequency bigger data bandwidth but range impacted. It just a nature of electromagnetic spectrum - bigger the wave- bigger a distance that it can travel. How it could be implemented: 100mbps over low frequency !!?
You can, you just take up a much larger % of the spectrum at lower frequencies. Imagine a 10MHz wide channel at 400MHz vs 4GHz. 400 - 410 vs 4000 - 4010 Shannon-Hartley theorem. Throughput is a function of bandwidth and SNR, so while you could send that much data, you would be using a relatively larger percentage of the spectrum at 400MHz than you would at 4GHz.
Im curious, how does the MPU5 compare to the 163? The datasheet seems to list that it is able to do more than the MPU5 but im guessing that's mainly marketing hype.
I'm listening as I work and I keep thinking I hear Adam say "mayonnaise" instead of MANET and it jolts me out of what I'm doing (radio programming, ironically) every. damn. time. also, just hearing someone say 'interoperability' makes me glad. we emergency services radio people would love to hear it more second also, I've been trying to research but I don't see anything on it, does this use native FHSS for EM adverse conditions or is it single channel broadband?
Question: You have said that having some sort of JTAC on the ground is essential for operations with aircraft. Why is that? Why can't aircraft forego a guy on the ground, and what is that guy on the ground actually doing that sensors and electrooptics on the aircraft can't do?
JTAC is only there for CAS missions, where friendly forces are in close proximity to enemy forces and detailed integration from the ground to the air is required to safely conduct Close Air Support. As far as sensors, a JTAC is utilizing the sensors of the specific aircraft to the best of its ability in order to “talk the pilot on” to the enemy force. When friendlies aren’t in close proximity to friendly forces and detailed integration between the air and ground ISN’T required, that would be AI, or Air Interdiction
So really late watching but I would wonder if the footprint of the MPU5 could have an alternative set of internals that increases is ability to bounce low frequency and enhance the simple data transmission and a local network scrambler so your devices and unmanned equipment could operate with mild assistance in signal strength, but make it an unrecognizable Picasso. Just a thought for folks who would like modern tech that has a small unit gone native in mind. I am not familiar really with possible home modifications or any serious use of these small high data units, but they seem like they're honestly only useful to a fully supported mechanized force. I do know that anything with an IP is more defensible, but only because you're opening yourself to a world of cyber and I live outside now Fort Eisenhower......Cyops cuddled up with the dissident surveillance service. Any minuteman kit recommendations would be appreciated. Feels like the Quatering act around here now that all the oath keepers walked away.
Can someone explain the data loss when it uses hopping. I may have misunderstood what he said, but it sounded like he said about half the data was lost every time it hopped from one radio to another. That would not take many hopes to degrade the data enough to be unusable. So, I think I misunderstood what he said and would like some clarification on it. Thanks in advance.
I've found TSM (used trellisware, 163, and 171) and it's definitely the solution. The MPU-5 Bands are just too high for ops in dense terrain. MPU-5s work well over LOS but for being worn by an idiv, they are too high band (too much bandwidth, too poor forest/jungle/urban).
Im curious, what does the MPU5 do better than the 163? The datasheet seems to list that it is able to do more than the MPU5 but im guessing that's mainly marketing hype.
@@065Tim the solution shouldn't be what is effectively 10 different radios. Trellisware radios only require a single handset to cover several mghz worth of bands. Your antenna is out of band before the handset is.
@@iandoyle3695there is a tri band antenna available for Trellisware radios where you can use for uhf, l and s band. One radio one antenna. The waveforms they provide just work
I have been in the military for years, but got out in 2008 I constantly train, and I constantly preparing myself, for God knows what’s gonna happen in the future, especially being a father of three and a husband. But for the life of me, my brain just does not comprehend communications. Trying to understand this stuff is so difficult for me and I just don’t know why. It’s like trying to learn a different language for me and no matter how many videos I watch to understand it I just can’t grasp the concept and it is so frustrating considering I feel when and if something bad happens, it’s going to play a huge role going forward
Start with the absolute basics. I didn’t get radio AT ALL until I started to understand RF. This stuff is a step beyond all that though - like he said this is fundamentally a computer. So don’t get caught up not understanding this stuff it’s very tip of the spear. If you get a good grasp on UHF/VHF, GMRS, etc you’re good to go in my opinion
@@TheRealBigEE thank you I do appreciate that I do have baofeng and then I bought a anytone off a buddy of mine, but I don’t understand that thing at all. I am starting to learn a little bit about the baofeng. I need to join a radio club in my area which I’ve been meaning to do for years and just keep forgetting to, but I feel like this year is going to be an interesting one and I need to understand communications better
Yeah not sure how well this will hold up in a LSCO fight with a near peer or peer adversary. This is at the top over everyone’s minds coming out of AUSA.
So to sum this up for the regular person. If you have millions of dollars to waste and want to build a reliable mesh network between you and your millionaire buddies for data, drones, secure comms then get the mpu5. If you're an average civilian this is not for you because it can't transmit over regular RF bands without having it hooked up to another radio. Even if you do manage get one it will be completely useless to you because you'll be the only one who has one so you won't be able to transmit securely or get any video or data feeds. You're better off buying a traditional radio for a few hundred dollars. I'm still waiting for the day where someone takes advantage of the computer radio I carry around with me 24/7 and just makes a pluggable antenna that allows me to transmit over traditional wave bands without adding 15 extra lbs of extra comm equipment.
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And since you all are inevitably going to ask.... yes, these are legal to own for civilians. What types of radios are you all using?
Citizens
I ordered some baofang commie tracking devices that I’m psyched never showed up and I got a refund on. I ordered them before looking in to the options and functionality differences at all. Another cool piece of gear to grab is a “SLNT bag”, their dry bags are multi functional and can assist you in going completely dark in the event of a peer on peer conflict where they have the capability to track radio frequencies.
BOOFWANG GANG
Two cups and string gang
these things probably cost as much as a car :P
Bro... I can't even figure out my XTS 2500/PRC153... now you're throwing in all this new stuff. Now I know how my grandma felt when I had to explain her TV remote.
Comms are more capable than ever, but they are also more complicated than ever.
MPU5 is designed to be more simple than ever. They have apps developed for the RDC that autodetect video input, ethernet adapters allow for control of camera gimbals and other robotics and most of it is just plug and play. The manet network autodetects and adds nodes. Any single one of these capabilities on other radios requires a lot of training - It's quite impressive.
There are those out there who can program them. You can get and download the software. It is tricky at first. The problem is you need a key and sp device for encryption.
I'm a Marine RO, and seeing an episode from one of my favorite companies talk about comms puts a massive smile on my face. Thanks Spirtius Systems.
Same here, bud. Just graduated from 29 palms!
Trelliswares radios beat the dog shit out of this on almost every metric.
No. That isn't even close to true. @@iandoyle3695
but they do not talk lol. They do not have the chance
Yeah, that isn't true at all. Ask anyone who is using a 163. @@iandoyle3695
It took the first 5 mins of this video for me to finally realize what made this device special. Thanks for breaking it down somewhat for simpletons to understand
In my unit we called this radio the Net warrior ii system. We ranMBITR2 types. I also used the Net warrior on back in the day. The new radio was dope, much portential and flexibility. I was the Plt RTO for Net warrior 1 and Company RTO for Net warrior 2. I felt like playing a vidoe game, battle tracking was a breeze, command and control relayed beautifully. We used it greatly during training ops. It was cool to text Battalion or text the bird in the air. I would pack the old radio and my commander actually kept it old school and wanted to talk on the man packpack. It made me think of Nam and the on song playing. Iron6R
Commo nodes are the first things to go in a LSCO fight. These are leaps and bounds ahead of the traditional radios that we grew up with during GWOT.
DoD has been pushing mesh-based net-centric warfare for over 30 years now. Army and Land Warfare units are way downstream of a lot of the evolution in this space since priority goes to Aerospace. It's finally trickling to the lowest-level, almost inconsequential elements now.
This is truly awesome tech. I really hope this tech will become affordable and and available. I know you can buy individual components that can do parts of what that radio can do but you would be using multiple systems to do what that one radio can do and do better. I would love to learn more on this system. Thanks for creating this video and thanks to Persistent Systems.
It's also vital to aknowledge that with data routing and meshing radios, you are transmitting pretty much all the time with the radios sending data and saying hello to each other. That's ideal for an adversory with modern EW equipment to map out your troop's location, composition and organization with your constant EM output. Utilizing EMCON should be common knowledge, if you have a radio, you should know when to not use it.
I am a General licensed ham and this vid is a head scratcher for me.
Its not a radio anymore in the traditional sense but like the wifi router that you have at home.
It doesn’t matter anyways. The radio alone is over 7k. And full set up is reaching over 10k
No one cares weirdo
It'd be interesting to hear a bit more about how it performs in a contested RF environment when you have things like jamming or other EW assets at play. That seems to be the big difference between the MPU5 and the Silvus radios. MPU5 has a ton of features from layer 2 and up, but seems to lack in things like the waveform or even the ability to do proper TX beamforming which is pretty surprising.
Although there was a job opening a while ago for an RF engineer with SDR experience, so maybe that's gonna change with the MPU6.
In Aerospace, they've gone to narrow beam directional Low Probability Intercept Data Links on F-22A, JSF series, B-2A, B-21A. Not even CCIP I & II Late Block F-16CM+ has any of that.
FCC filings for the Wave Relay radio point to standard 802.11 specs.
Short answer...if your home wifi is susceptible to jamming, this is too.
Seems to me they took a Nighthawk router and gave it a DC power supply.
@@MichaelJoannides Shhhhh, you're not supposed to say that out loud!
@@fosatech Who will win? $15,000 MPU5 Rout- I mean radio, or $20 used laptop running Kali lol
@@ethanlee4175shhhhh. if you keep pointing out facts someone is gonna kick in your door and Epstein you 🤣
My little group of guys use Motorola xts5000, which is plenty good enough for us. The MPU5 is cool, but $20k - $30k for a communication setup as a Citizen is a waste of money in my opinion. You could use that money for training, ammo, preps, and etc... Most Citizen's would not use most of the features on the MPU5, but for military use, it would be extremely beneficial. Coordinating with different units, assests, command, and etc, from one unit is fantastic, but as a Citizen's, it doesn't make sense in the cost to benefit category.
Something similar at a lower price point would sell. I hope someone comes up with something. The demand is there.
Citizens don't need it, but the military does??? Just because citizens taxes pay for it? Any group of people could get great value from mobile comms like this... Just like a smart phone (which now cost $1000+ for some models) anyone could get value from this. Search and rescue, emergency response, event coordination, any use case where many people need to communicate over their own comms link... Especially in environments where the comms infrastructure does not exist or cannot be trusted. Yes, building comms networks cost $$$ but don't pretend civilians don't have a need for these as well. The only issue is funding... Get a group together to consolidate funds vs govt unlimited taxes and national debt to fund purchases.
@@TheRealBigEEExactly... Demand is there just like for computers, cell phones, smart phones, etc.
@@save2a4allhis point is that most civilians will never be able to afford a system costing almost $30,000, and most civilians are not coms experts and would not put in the effort to figure everything out.
@@whenindoubtgohiking8074 Exactly
Another episode on stuff I can't afford, but I will drool over nevertheless. Great stuff! Thank you for putting this stuff out to the world!
I love it when Adam talks nerdy! 🥸🥸🍺🫵🤟🇨🇦🫡🇺🇸🤟🫵🍺🥸🥸
I just learned SDR now I gotta check this thing out. WOW!
🗿
@@fosatech I'll check out your stuff, thanks.
I'm just a regular guy. So I understood about 20% of this video.
Coming from Ukraine, would love more on how these handle in contested environments where EW is a common thing. Also, love these longer form videos, but also miss the two minute/team room Tuesdays
I just want to say thank you guys for sharing this amazing info technology to this mortal and i think many old and new RO are having a good time watching this video. Great job 👏 thanks again 👍
This is one of my favorite videos you’ve put out
Wow, engineering excellence combined with real world uses and bullet proof. Thanks for video
Ran many ops with a 163, and it is excellent for small inter-teams Coms and even pushed long distance. But the capability really expands when you throw a 158 in the mix in a squad which pushes that TSM out much further, in effect joining multiple nets.
The 163 sucks in my experience. It overheated and the battery drained faster than any radio I’ve ever used. Even when it was turned off.
Please also do a review on their Dual PTT and their ATAK system.
there will definitely be more to come
@@chrisspiritus9043 You guys are the best 😎
It's called the "Rugged Display and Controller" mate, and I approve this request. 😎🇺🇸
It's painful to watch the incremental obsolescence in motion over the past 30 years.
Helmet-based interface was already done quite well with Land Warrior, but the Army has gone backwards to a chest-mounted tablet display.
AeroEs need to step in and unjack this whole disconnected tech evolution spaghetti in the Army.
@@LRRPFco52its better to have every soldier with a phone on their chest then half with a one eye half of a sunglass display
Been a huge fan of wave relay since the early MPU4 days. But I also love on Sylvus radios as well
Marine 06xx here. My unit has old radios--we just got rid of our last 150. We mainly use RT-1796s, 1949s and 1916s in their various forms. I also own some MBITRs. I would love the chance to get my hands on some of these, but I'm not sure I could justify the use case for our mission. I'm sure we could make more use out of the old 148s too other than taking them out of the cage and counting them once a week.
Come to 2nd MLG we have some fun high speed stuff MPU5/EUD , Starlink/router, I’m a 0631 btw and I’ve had a chance to mess with it all. one thing I will say about mpu5 it really fit my units mission set
Neither of you have RAID plates on your CMR yet, huh? That suuuuucks.
Army 25U, I got to use these with the EUDs along with the bots, only problem I noticed was that the PTT was very finicky and prone to being damaged and a source of failure.
I use MPU5 IP radios in my work - Silvus and Domo Tactical, too.
Awesome video! Thank you Adam and Kyle..
I think it would be interesting to see a deep dive video just on the screen. As trivial as it may seem, I'd love to see some of the pros and cons of using it versus other end user devices and the functionality that can be leveraged through various APKs for different use cases. Obviously the MPU5 gets a lot of diverse use, so the sky is the limit, but I think demonstrating some of its more unique capabilities would help people realize why the MPU5 is a worthwhile investment.
What I find most interesting is this "radio" runs Android OS, specifically Android 9 Pie (at least according to their website). With that in mind I wonder if the older OS is vulnerable to some CVE's. Additionally, it would be interesting to see someone build out the same functionality on AOSP and be able to port it to any device.
It runs WR OS2.2 which is a Android 9.0 compatible but does not have the vulnerabilities and is maintained and constantly upgraded per Firm ware for free against RED team attacks
@@robertelliott9179 "WR OS2.2" did you mean to type "wear os 2.2"?
Either way I'm doubtful about android being a good choice.
@@LabiaLickerwhy?
Keep these commo videos coming!
It’s just so aesthetically pleasing. It could be a reskinned baofeng.
Awesome video and great gear! What I'd love to see is how to set up a squad/plt comms system with people running mostly baofengs or similar lower end radios for the prepared citizen. Basically a "how to squad comms structure".
Guerilla Guide to BAOFENG, it's a book, squad up!
More COMM material!
Excellent overview of the MPU5!
Thank you so much for this video!
Nice. These advance comm radios behave as if they are in itself routers/relay-repeaters besides being receivers/transmitters.
It is using ROIP.
With their encryption or scrambling circuits, I wonder what lag do they have.
I'm gonna edge to Adam.
G8888888y 🤢🤮
lmao-u aint right
This is something that should be set up at ALL times (even in Garrison), so that EVERYONE depending on these systems can not only become familiar with them, but maintain their proficiency with the capabilities. In the SOF world, they should be using these systems for EVERYTHING, from range operations to jump operations to exercises. Not only should the long-tabbers be running these systems at ALL times, but so should the support communications dets/companies. It's great that these systems are running ROIP, but in the end, the system needs a gateway (Joint Base Station?) to be able to extend out. The real "sticking point" will be when Big SOF communications (112th SIG, JCSE, etc.) fall in on top of another Organization (SFG, etc.) and work together. This needs to be constantly worked and exercised so everyone knows how it all works. What you DON'T want to happen, is OIF I, when SF Groups were all of the sudden given Platoons/Detachments of Communicators that they had NEVER worked with before and had NO idea how to employ them correctly.
I retired in 2011, after 22 years as a communicator. 17 years on Jump Status and 15 of those years supporting Special Operations in SOCEUR Sig Det, QRC/JCSE and 7 years at 10th SFG.
Nice, thanks for sharing
holy fck the amount of acronyms here
Interested in seeing this lined up capability-wise against other waveforms. Listening at 28:00 and hearing hopping use as ALE instead of ECCM is weird.
163s are definitely an upgrade to 152s due to the addition of TSM, cross banding, and the ability to connect your atak to the radio. It’s mainly only good for RTOs though because it’s too complex for an infantryman or even fires. Our Commexs aren’t usually “oh yeah your cables fucked” it’s more of “oh you had three different settings that were wrong.” TSM does work fine on them. Idk much about MPU5s but everyone claims they’re the next best thing since you can create a mission plan on just one of them then broadcast it to all the other radios so you don’t have to load every radio individually due to pretty much setting up a server that the other mpu5s can join
What I understand; If you have 2 sectors you need a 3rd between to connect network and the 4th to pass info to the base because of the distance so at the base, 5th and 6th lets you hear and watch the 1st and 2nd cameras live on 2 monitors or a smart tv...That's the least amount you need to have.
Great video. Would love more info on the ppt and atak integration.
We ran ATAK through 152a’s using ANW2C waveform
Chat and CoT packets, probably worked fine, but I'm assuming you weren't pulling video, were you? How about points with a photo attached? We did some work with ANW2 years ago, it was cool but pretty limiting as I remember.
Wave Relay is tacticool for Wi-Fi.
How is key management handled? The spec page mention AES counter mode, but what level is encrypted?
and i’m still figuring out how to use my UV5R 😂
This is fantastic!😮😮😮😮
I appreciate the video and the extensive knowledge of both of these individuals. However they definitely talked over my head for about 20 minutes before they brought it into knuckle dragger terms but none the less they did intrept for me
I’m interested in hearing about rf emission control with this system. Can the user decide when or what type of broadcasts the radio is making while retaining the ability to receive?
The MPU5 is pretty great, but finicky in my experience. I will agree it is better than the 163. Most guys would rather use the 152.
Im curious, what does the MPU5 do better than the 163? The datasheet seems to list that it is able to do more than the MPU5 but im guessing that's mainly marketing hype.
I’ve seen a small array of different antennas on them, it’d be cool to see a segment on their different capabilities and uses.
Oh. So thats why i had to take computer essentials in comm school back in 2013
Well how much is it and where can I buy? Cause I’ve looked on their website and can’t find a price or option to purchase.
I feel like I just watched Adam complete (and pass?) an oral exam on the MPU5 proctored by a guy from Persistent. lol.
The way the other dude gently nods at him as he fumbles his way though it is heartwarming.
Could you do your next video segment on operations in a contested environment? I would love to know how it performs against EW threats.
I'd also be curious how SATCOM or call for fire missions are completed using just an MPU-5 since you made reference to a JTAC not needing to carry two radios anymore.
I've not used either yet, but from what I've heard and read, Silvus seems to be the better option on that end. Also, the 802.11 hardware doesn't instill a ton of confidence from a security perspective, but I'm sure they've addressed that.
Still would need to have a roiped satcom or green radio if that’s your thing. The idea though is that 1 person carrying 2 radios gives the manet/local group the capability of both radios without each individual physically carrying them
my unit used these, and we had to run the ROIP cable to their 152s, but we made a ROIP Chanel net on the programming software so it eliminated the need to have dual PTTs and run another 152 for another net.
@@fosatechSilvus is what we used back in the day to tether our WOLFHOUND and VROD DF systems into co-op mode, it worked really well. A team at 10SFG was having hardware and connectivity issues with their MPU-5s and ultimately scrapped using them as a result
33:18 "The DB goes up when its a different polorization". Hmm In amateur radio we're taught that different polorizations cause signal loss as you have a vertical hitting a horizontal only that thin area that connects is getting the signal. Draw a "+" How much area is touching. Now Draw two "I's II" Much higher touching going on. Even in Digital modes.
kyle is so fucking dreamy
How does it stack up against MBITR2 (the one with wideband data) or the Falcon IV family?
Please do more videos explaining commo. I would like to see more non-mil/civ sheepdog set ups. Thanks.
I'd love to see a video like this for patrol/tactical radio setups for civilians. I really had a hard time trying to figure out my comms setup bc there just aren't a lot of options out there. And most of the best HAM channels don't focus on how to use the radios in a combat role. Most, if not all, radios and support equipment are geared for military use and radios civilians can't get. So content going over that would be amazing.
You wouldnt use HAM for combat roles, especially not in team communications. GMRS would fulfill that role.
Would love to hear how these more advanced MANET systems can operate with legacy systems that are already fielded. More specifically would there be a benefit to a single mpu5 integrated into a team operating on p25/dmr platforms?
Not necessarily. The benefit would come from replacing existing radios with mpu5’s and roiping one of your p25 platforms to the mpu5. That way everyone has access to the roip over the Manet plus the MIMO benefits of mpu5
It’s possible
Awesome video! You mentioned a lot of people not having good experiences with the PRC-163’s, i was curious to know what you heard about them? I’m by no means a radio expert, but I’ve used the 163 and the 152 a fair bit and I’m a pretty big fan of the 163, atleast in comparison with the 152, as my only radio experience is military radios such as the 117, 152, 153 and now the 163. What are your thoughts?
Pretty freaking neat but I’m more in the uv5r with a Nagoya antenna budget. I feel like I gotta add that if an fcc reaper blows me up I’m ok with that lol I understand the application for this pricey bad boy but realistically for the bulk of us dumb poors in this comment section have plenty of other sheet to worry about
It can still be DF'd and eliminated.
You don't have to give a crap of what they said.
You are more in the anti-radiation missle seeking onto me with the potential of killing my whole family budget
Seriously rarely use it to transmit only listen and transmit in emergency look into meshtastic its also very budget friendly and safer/encrypted etc. and is what should be used for non emergency mesaaging that dont need voice as well as atak integration
@@OrbitalBurn1 you think the MPU5 can't be DF'd?
@@yuval5628 um, I said it could.
Thanks for the overview of a radio that nobody can afford.
How good would range be considering the lowest frequency is like 1.3ghz
We been doing the same thing in Amateur Radio for a long time.
Like a ruggedized meshtastic with more IP features ... nice.
More akin to a ruggedized wifi router. Literally
Ok you've convince us.! How do we get a couple with all accessories & how much.? Cheers from Australia.
these are totally useless for us. Lookup Meshtastic. Something that actually makes sense.
Inner Soul System vibrates in conscious or without. Step controllet inside n awareness of subtil energies which lure soul destiny n flips purpose sometimes...
I want to smoke what this man is smoking.
Probably a limited response but what about jamming, burnthrough, capabilities, etc.. This is essentially a data link protocol without a necos. Cool system, but leaves me curious.
I think Kyle said like thirteen words total!
Adam, cut down on the caffeine gum!
Sheeeesh! 🤣
hehehehehe, getting caught up to teamspeak2 from 20 years ago with voip. (not tossing shade, just kind of humorous how long it takes different groups of nerds to share ideas)
It's really interesting to see that this sort of thing is JUST NOW being utilized in the exact way people thought mess networking could be. I set something similar up at work for our forklift operators....its a huge pain in the dick to program but, once it works all you can bitch about are the batteries lol
The benefits of being able to radio hop is great most of the time. But I can foresee this leading to some micro management from higher ups that ultimately will be super annoying and unhelpful.
Just sitting here holding my Baofeng reassuring it that I could never leave it after all we’ve been through together 😂
Great info! Now I just need to find $20,000 laying around somewhere
Are there any cost-efficient technologies similar to this? I know of mesh node communicators, but not any full on ROIP systems accessible to Normies.
Wow, that's awesome!!! 😳
I am curious if the videodecoding is done in AV1 as this would save a lot of throuput
Excellent video, thanks! I have a question, my knowledge base on paradigm that if higher frequency bigger data bandwidth but range impacted. It just a nature of electromagnetic spectrum - bigger the wave- bigger a distance that it can travel. How it could be implemented: 100mbps over low frequency !!?
You can, you just take up a much larger % of the spectrum at lower frequencies. Imagine a 10MHz wide channel at 400MHz vs 4GHz.
400 - 410 vs 4000 - 4010
Shannon-Hartley theorem. Throughput is a function of bandwidth and SNR, so while you could send that much data, you would be using a relatively larger percentage of the spectrum at 400MHz than you would at 4GHz.
GO AVS!
Does spiritus sell a 163 radio pouch?
What if the internet or your provider goes down? How does ROIP work then?
We run 163 and once it’s set up it works and only downside is it’s range isn’t the best but in normal conditions you maybe can do like 250 m
Im curious, how does the MPU5 compare to the 163? The datasheet seems to list that it is able to do more than the MPU5 but im guessing that's mainly marketing hype.
I'm listening as I work and I keep thinking I hear Adam say "mayonnaise" instead of MANET and it jolts me out of what I'm doing (radio programming, ironically) every. damn. time.
also, just hearing someone say 'interoperability' makes me glad. we emergency services radio people would love to hear it more
second also, I've been trying to research but I don't see anything on it, does this use native FHSS for EM adverse conditions or is it single channel broadband?
"Hey, babe! Whatcha doin'?"
"Watching a video about a $20,000 walkie talkie."
"No, really. What are you doing?"
Hell a HackRF is 1.75% the cost of this $20k radio lmfao
So you have to see another radio for it to work?
Question:
You have said that having some sort of JTAC on the ground is essential for operations with aircraft. Why is that? Why can't aircraft forego a guy on the ground, and what is that guy on the ground actually doing that sensors and electrooptics on the aircraft can't do?
JTAC is only there for CAS missions, where friendly forces are in close proximity to enemy forces and detailed integration from the ground to the air is required to safely conduct Close Air Support. As far as sensors, a JTAC is utilizing the sensors of the specific aircraft to the best of its ability in order to “talk the pilot on” to the enemy force. When friendlies aren’t in close proximity to friendly forces and detailed integration between the air and ground ISN’T required, that would be AI, or Air Interdiction
We are getting these deployment kits in Civil Air Patrol for SAR.
Does ROIP effectively mean civilian legal secure comms?
So really late watching but I would wonder if the footprint of the MPU5 could have an alternative set of internals that increases is ability to bounce low frequency and enhance the simple data transmission and a local network scrambler so your devices and unmanned equipment could operate with mild assistance in signal strength, but make it an unrecognizable Picasso. Just a thought for folks who would like modern tech that has a small unit gone native in mind. I am not familiar really with possible home modifications or any serious use of these small high data units, but they seem like they're honestly only useful to a fully supported mechanized force. I do know that anything with an IP is more defensible, but only because you're opening yourself to a world of cyber and I live outside now Fort Eisenhower......Cyops cuddled up with the dissident surveillance service. Any minuteman kit recommendations would be appreciated. Feels like the Quatering act around here now that all the oath keepers walked away.
Can someone explain the data loss when it uses hopping. I may have misunderstood what he said, but it sounded like he said about half the data was lost every time it hopped from one radio to another. That would not take many hopes to degrade the data enough to be unusable. So, I think I misunderstood what he said and would like some clarification on it. Thanks in advance.
I've found TSM (used trellisware, 163, and 171) and it's definitely the solution. The MPU-5 Bands are just too high for ops in dense terrain. MPU-5s work well over LOS but for being worn by an idiv, they are too high band (too much bandwidth, too poor forest/jungle/urban).
You can swap out the Freq Module:
RF-1150 - 10W L-Band Freq. Range:
1350 - 1390 MHz
RF-2150 - 10W S-Band Freq. Range:
2200 - 2507 MHz
RF-2125- BAS Band Freq. Range:
2025 - 2150 MHz
RF-4100- Lower C-Band Freq. Range:
4400 - 5000 MHz
RF-5100- Upper C-Band Freq. Range:
5100 - 6000 MHz
Just add a screw driver to your BOI and remember to call timeout during the TIC so you can change frequency.
Im curious, what does the MPU5 do better than the 163? The datasheet seems to list that it is able to do more than the MPU5 but im guessing that's mainly marketing hype.
@@065Tim the solution shouldn't be what is effectively 10 different radios.
Trellisware radios only require a single handset to cover several mghz worth of bands. Your antenna is out of band before the handset is.
@@iandoyle3695there is a tri band antenna available for Trellisware radios where you can use for uhf, l and s band. One radio one antenna. The waveforms they provide just work
Top of the line gear demands top of the line pricing. Remember, the XTS platform used to be the most expensive portable radio on the market.
I have been in the military for years, but got out in 2008 I constantly train, and I constantly preparing myself, for God knows what’s gonna happen in the future, especially being a father of three and a husband. But for the life of me, my brain just does not comprehend communications. Trying to understand this stuff is so difficult for me and I just don’t know why. It’s like trying to learn a different language for me and no matter how many videos I watch to understand it I just can’t grasp the concept and it is so frustrating considering I feel when and if something bad happens, it’s going to play a huge role going forward
Start with the absolute basics. I didn’t get radio AT ALL until I started to understand RF. This stuff is a step beyond all that though - like he said this is fundamentally a computer. So don’t get caught up not understanding this stuff it’s very tip of the spear. If you get a good grasp on UHF/VHF, GMRS, etc you’re good to go in my opinion
@@TheRealBigEE thank you I do appreciate that I do have baofeng and then I bought a anytone off a buddy of mine, but I don’t understand that thing at all. I am starting to learn a little bit about the baofeng. I need to join a radio club in my area which I’ve been meaning to do for years and just keep forgetting to, but I feel like this year is going to be an interesting one and I need to understand communications better
How’s this different from the Harris 163 which can do more or the 171 which is similar
I want one but man the price. And I have some crazy expense equipment but I need more use/need before I purchase.
Yeah not sure how well this will hold up in a LSCO fight with a near peer or peer adversary. This is at the top over everyone’s minds coming out of AUSA.
I need the deets on that side armor set up.
I like the fight club scene splice of KJU.
So to sum this up for the regular person. If you have millions of dollars to waste and want to build a reliable mesh network between you and your millionaire buddies for data, drones, secure comms then get the mpu5. If you're an average civilian this is not for you because it can't transmit over regular RF bands without having it hooked up to another radio. Even if you do manage get one it will be completely useless to you because you'll be the only one who has one so you won't be able to transmit securely or get any video or data feeds. You're better off buying a traditional radio for a few hundred dollars. I'm still waiting for the day where someone takes advantage of the computer radio I carry around with me 24/7 and just makes a pluggable antenna that allows me to transmit over traditional wave bands without adding 15 extra lbs of extra comm equipment.