Should You Buy a Record Weight?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2021
- If there was ever an audio accessory that has caused debates among audiophiles and long-time record collectors, it’s the record weight (aka stabilizer or puck, as some like to call it). The arguments range from “I swear by mine” to “I swear you’re insane”. Do they really make a difference? Can adding a few extra ounces to the weight of your record change your listening experience?
Find out more at JoyOfVinyl.com
Written & Produced by Rick Coste
To learn more about Rick and his work go to RickCoste.com
The only way to be really convincing is to show some before and after samples that indicate a clear audible difference. Ive never seen anything like that, Ive never heard anything like that with my own and neither have I on other setups where its claimed to make a difference.
I'll give that a shot. Great idea for a future video.
For most turntables (90%) a platter clamp suffices. This will not overload the platter axle!
I've been using record weights since I got back into my vinyl collection back in the mid-2000s. After I bought my Rega Planar 2 I bought a record clamp by Mitchel designed for the Reag. The rule of thumb I read was not to use a weight on a belt-driven turntable, which made sense to me. I too believe they make a difference toward the improvement side of listening. 😜😜
Thank you for weighing in (as always!). I do use my weight on my Thorens TD160 Super which is belt driven. I've speed tested it both on and off. I would say though that it will require a belt change sooner than most would prefer if used all the time. I do not, and would not recommend, using it with 180 gram (or above) records.
Just subscribed to your channel. I also use a record weight for basically the reasons you outlined here. I was a little concerned about adding weight and how that might affect the speed of the turntable and wear and tear. I have a Fluance RT85 with the Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge. Fluance also sells a record weight, so I figured that it must be okay to use one. By the way, you have some fuzz on your stylus in the video. 😄I use a stylus brush to clean mine. Do you recommend a specific way to clean your stylus? Thanks for the video.
Hi Neil! Too funny you picked up on that about the stylus. Luckily that one isn’t mine 🤣. As far as cleaning my stylus, I would recommend just what you are doing at the moment. A stylus brush (dry) is my current method. I’ve been recommending the onzow zerodust, but started to hear rumblings that it may leave residue. I haven’t had time to confirm at the moment so until I do I’m back to the brush for now. There’s always something new to learn!
I use a clamp, for the main reason others use it: instead of weighing down the platter, it adds suction that does the same thing as a weight does. Though a weight is OK much of the time, I feel better about adding suction instead of weight to my platter (and ultimately to the motor driving the platter).
I agree with you. I also use a Mitchell record clamp for warped records it flattens them to the platter almost like a vacuum. I use a vpi washer with the Mitchell clamp have a great day.
Cheers @Jon DeLess !
I use one I made from 3 hockey pucks bonded together and hole drilled for the spindle . I have a Heavey direct drive deck and it reduces feedback and record resonances from the motor.
Great idea @Fred Bissnette!
I made one from a trailer hitch ball once. 😂
@@robsonbass6058 great idea
Important to recognize that a record weight may not be suitable for a suspended subchassis turntable: Thorens, AR, Linn, etc.
Good point @Joe Burke !
Rick , do you prefer weight over the clamp? Why? I have a Pioneer PL4, so I can adjust the speed if the weight or clamp ads any drag i can get it back to 331/3.
I do, but that's not to say I wouldn't recommend a clamp. There are some really good ones that screw down to hold the record in place, and the good ones tend to be the more expensive ones. I've just always gone with record weights. The thing with a weight is you'll want to make sure it's not too heavy for your model of turntable. Especially belt driven units.
I'm curious if you have tried weights of different mass and if it made an audible difference on unwarped records. I haven't try a weight yet - The weight for my TT is over 1.6 pounds, which seems like a lot to put on the platter, I would rather go lighter if there is no difference. Thanks.
I have tried some different weights, but I have honestly not noticed a difference. I would go with something lighter. I currently use the Bren1 Record Weight that was recommended by Dave at Vinyl Nirvana for use with the my TT (which he customized). It's 13.7 ounces. It does help with minor concave warps, and for those records without warps my goal is to reduce any vibrations as much as possible , which this seems to accomplish 😀
I thought you meant the gram weight of the vinyl🤔😬 but on this topic isn't there weights vs the weight that's an actual clamp too?
I had a 383g weight but recently changed to an Origins Live Gravity One device.
I wonder what would happen if you went the opposite directions? Small rubber spikes that would provide minimal contact surface area between the platter and vinyl, kind of like spikes beneath floor-standing speakers.
I've actually changed yet again (I can't sit still). Just purchased and set up speaker stands.
they make platter mats with raised portions on it ,i have never used one personally
@@kurtzcol interesting 🤔
I've been having debates on getting one because of some records I have that tend to play slow on my Audio Technica LP60X turntable. Though apparently it had to do with my custom platter and they were playing normally with the original one which I then learned about weights and decided to test it with some coins in the middle of the record and they were playing normal with the custom platter all of a sudden.
Very interesting. What material is the platter or mat made from?
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords it's a felt material. I was going to link the Etsy listing where I bought it from only to find out that the shop closed down all of a sudden
@@Nodeathnolife Ugh. Sorry to hear that.
Yes.
I use a record weight and a lighter 120gr one, which is just sufficient to fix in place better thinner LP's, no needed a heavier weight for that. I can say the sound is improved this way, tighter bass and nicer soundstage due to more precise groove tracking. I'm not using record weight with thicker LP's and it doesn't make sense to use it. I also use the 120 gr record weight to play 7 inches, and after centering them i take out the 45 rpm's adapter and put the weight On, and sound is significantly improved too.
I do the same thing. If it’s 180g or more I forgo the weight. Only on normal LPs 140 and below. I still swear by them.
Record weight minimise warping. But what I hate most is the cost cutting in manufacturing turntables. In the past, turntables platter used to be made of cast iron or some heavy steel or thick aluminium and these turntables were affordable. These days many are using some light crappy plastic material. And they are outsourced to China for manufacture and they sell locally at high prices. Greed has made companies crazy.
I agree the tolerance in some modern tables is clearly lacking I have a rotel rp830 the platter is 3.75 kg like almost four pounds it was like 100 00 new in 1985 but it works excellent still today I purchased a new table paid 500 00 it sucked I purchased the rotel of Ebay for 100 put a 2m blue on it perfect.
@@MrPompanomanThe popular ubiquitous turntables these days use some light composite material for their platter. Even the cheapest Akai, Sansui and Pioneers in the 1970s had heavy platters and well engineered bases and tonearms. Now you have to pay like $2000 to get the same quality.
I currently have a rotel rp830 it was a entry level table from rotel made by "micro seki" in the mid 80s the platter is aluminum and 3.75 kg almost 4 pounds and the effective length of the arm is 9" it works great I have a 2m blue on it currently
I just watched this and 200 other videos on record weights... i feel the jury is still out -- thanks utoob
I stand by record weights... I was shocked at the difference it made when I started using one a couple years ago. Plus mine has a built in level, one glance and I can see if my turntable is flat.
screw down clamps work even better with the correct turntables (vpi)
I've heard something similar. Another thing I want to look into.
If you have a crap deck, poor cables, poor mixer, poor amp, poorly mastered vinyl, crappy speakers or a non treated room, I doubt a record weight will make any difference.
The best way to improve the sound of your TT is to invest in a better cartridge.
All of my turntables use record weights, and I've never had an issue. (Rega, Thorens)
Record weights do nothing for edge warps. For those you either have to flatten the record or use a vacuum hold-down turntable. Neither of those is inexpensive. I use the clamp that came with my Brinkmann Audio Bardo table. That doesn't flatten edge warps either but I've just learned to live with it.
Completely agree on the edge warps @Gary Alexander. The only time I see a difference is when the record has a "concave" warp.
I've gotten to where I don't care about edge warps unless they are abrupt enough to affect the sound. Then I just toss the record. I've heard there may be ways to flatten warped record, but I have very few warped records (noticeable warp, I mean), and none of them are "high value" records.
Well,we had this discussion in the eighties already. And nothing has changed since then.
But ppl simply will never learn.
Seems to me if its taken 40 years and its still not conclusive then thats a really bad sign.
@@leon9021 Well,it was conclusive then and it is now,but hey this things look nice....
@@Zockopa If it was there wouldnt be ant debate over it.
@@leon9021 A "debate" is free advertisement,so i think as long as there are this things sold there will be a "debate".
In my experience a clamp or weight might hold a record more stable, but doesn't do much to improve warped records.
I'm with you on that. It's really only helped with concave record warps.
It's real simple. If a record weight did not make your system sound better. You have a bad system. Or possibly a bad "weight"? As in not enough pressure. If you are concerned about the additional weight try a Nagaoka TS-623 Plate Clamp. It works by springs instead of weight.
A way to find out how good a clamp/ weight/ ... or even different platter mats are, listen with the volume off! Play a record and hear how much sound comes off the record itself. If you can hear it plainly, you have problems!
Sound is/ requires energy. Any sound you hear coming off the record is vibrations not reaching the coils in the cart. Lost sound energy. If you hear nothing then you have a perfect energy transfer.
Well said!
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I used to demo the Kenwood Audio Purist record clamp system including their Stabilizer Ring and sintered platter mat using that approach. People's mouth would drop with the difference in sound off the record surface. With those it was dead quiet! All mechanical energy was being transfered to the cantilever.
@@glenncurry3041 That's amazing, Just looked up the stabilizer ring you mentioned.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Multiple problems with it though. Extends over and below the plater edge. It needs clearance around it. Some plinths have trim up to the edge. The massive weight addition is more than belt systems can typically handle. Though once up to speed, just that much more momentum. And bearing load from that mass.
But to hear a record surface go dead quiet on playback is amazing! And the clarity it provides by removing record surface reflections and vibrations?
What about electric guitars you can hear when they are not plugged in? 😉
hockey puck hack: 6oz /160gram, lightweight, but good enough or just double them.... just drill centre hole
I've heard that one before. I should try it - we have a whole bucketful of pucks in the garage. Cheers!
yeah the reason they say that new records today are 180 grams thick is to reduce warpage HA!!!!!!!!!!! I have records from the 70's that were at 120 grams thick they are flatter than the new 180 gram ones so much for that but I bought a wieght for my pro-ject tt it came with the metal platter but to change speeds I had to remove platter and move belt was worried about heavy platter slipping from my hands and scratching the wood grain so I got the acrylic platter much lighter and it looked nice when I used platter the sound was different mids and bass seemed inproved then I used a weight on it so that if I cleaned record on platter it would not slip and it worked and found that the bass was much cleaner and not muddy sounding at all wow I noticed that the weight when I used it on my Dual 1009 no change in sound I figured since the platter was 5 lbs the extra weight it did not make a difference JRo
Hi JRo - I really do like those acrylic platters. Always have. And I know what you mean about the 180g coming in warped. Just had it happen again the other day!
Pure copper
If a turntable cannot handle a record weight, then that is not a quality turntable, and you should not use the weight, which could cause problems for such a low-end turntable.
Otherwise, there is no down side to using the weight.
Ideally, you want your records to weigh as much as possible, in order to minimize vibration feeding into the stylus.
With a record weight, the record becomes somewhat married to the platter -- and that is a good thing, as that will reduce the record from vibrating, which results in less distortion feeding your stylus.
When you get into pricey turntables, one thing that they have in common is that their platters grow in size and weight. That ties in to the above.
You want your record to have the mass of the platter. The more firmly the record is pressed against the platter, the more the record takes on the mass of the platter.
Not all stereos will be revealing enough to benefit from a record weight. For example, if none of your music sounds 3D, or throws a soundstage that extends beyond the edges of the speakers, or if your speakers never disappear, etc, then such a stereo (a tool of sorts) is not up to the job of revealing the improvement that a record weight offers.
th-cam.com/video/qFtI6MYXtVQ/w-d-xo.html
(and note that that contender for the world's best turntable also has a weight for the perimeter of the record, and that that turntable has a very heavy pendulum hanging down -- looks like stacked weights at the bottom of a pole). Costs as much as a house.
Record weight? I bought albums in the 60's and 70's there was no record weights. What you bought is what you got, you were outta luck if, for some reason a record didn't play correctly or needed weight.
Hate the fact they hide the label when its spinning even if thats a bit petty.
Completely agree @POV Music
I use a screw down record clamp. If you need a record weight, then there is something wrong with your turntable
Im not sure what you are saying. a screw down clamp essentially has the same function of a record weight: Its to couple the LP as firmly to the platter surface as possible.
That is not true. I also used a screw down clamp on my vpi table.but now I have a different table and use a weight. it definitely makes a difference even calming the vibration on the record will produce a significant difference in the sound you hear.
@@MrPompanoman I have used many turntables over the last 60 years and never experienced record "vibration".
Microscopic vibrations are just affecting sound you most likely wouldn't notice them at all. but if you remove them that you will notice. The sound will change the music will be cleaner sounding
@@MrPompanoman OK, Thanks for your explanation. I understand what you are saying. So, will the screw down record clamp, which is not very heavy, do the same thing?
The only thing with plastic, especially that glossy plastic crap is that it scratches like shit, easily.
no "nice things" for you
@@donwest5387 I like nice things, not when they are made to look cheap and scratch easily.
buy some quality 180gm records. p.s.: CDs scratch easily. If you can't hear the difference don't worry about it.@@chadergeist
In most of the records i have, I can see the record being flattened down by the weight. Unfortunately, when Vinyl Nirvana tweaked my TT, I didn't think to tell him that I might use a weight someday. I've had the weight for probably ten yrs and I see no damage so far. I make no claims, but you want your stylus ideally to track perpendicular laterally and you can't have that if it's going uphill or there's a hump in the middle portion of the record. I also spin the platter with my hand a sec before turning it on....just so the belt/motor don't have to carry the whole start up load. Depending on the quality of your platter bearing, the weight 'could' eventually cause damage to it. It's most likely a long term scenario though......
I'm also of the camp that the 'ring' weight on the outer portion of the record will take out warp too. But that's too expensive and too heavy a combo with my old Thorens....not gonna happen. Also depending on your stylus body, it may hit that ring on the first track. That would be a major bummer after the purchase of that ring.
I've been very intrigued by the ring weights. I have a couple records with edge warps that are inaudible but harsh to look at. I'm sure the ring weight would help. Like you said, the price is what stops me too, and probably always will. I never thought about the danger of the stylus hitting the ring. Excellent point. I should record a short sequence of a weight flattening a concave warp to illustrate how it helps. It's perfectly visible.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I think on these newer high dollar TT's like VPI, they could handle the center weight and the outer ring weight. But I think on older vintage belt drive TT's, you should consider the added torque requirements and bearing load from all that additional weight. I actually let the record get to its running speed and very carefully place the weight on the spinning center, about half the time. That may not be the best for the labels......but not so concerned about those. I'd think you'd have to play a record a lot to see any wear marks from the weight slipping that way. I dunno....with records there always seems to be contradictions;you think you have things figured out and then you realize maybe not. I'm pretty fussy, but I know people who are WAY worse that I am. Just enjoy the MUSIC!
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords From what I can tell, it's a shape thing. Those MC carts that look like blocks with the stylus jutting out are most likely to hit the outer ring on the first track. Those also tend to be the most expensive carts.
....don't do it!
No
I've experimented with record weights. I think they look cool, but I have yet to hear a difference. It may be because of the turntable's I use them on, though. I compare them to getting the Covid Jab: I'm seeing no improvement, but I'm seeing a lot of info suggesting they do bring risks to the table (excessive wear on the bearing(s)). But they may work on some TT's.
What I'd REALLY like is a weight as well as a weighted ring that fits around the rim of the record, making it a solid and acoustically dead unit, like the $50,000 clearaudio TT does it. 😜
Your comparison makes no sense