BOOSTED BBC!!-454 Borg S480 Upgrade
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2024
- We replaced the low-buck, EBay GT-45 turbo with a larger Borg S480. The S480 offered a billet wheel, a drop in back pressure and more power potential. This is part 3 of the Turbo Titans series, where we compared the turbo 4.8L LS to the turbo 454 BBC (both with the smaller Ebay GT-45 turbo). In part two, the 4.8L got the turbo upgrade, now (in part 3) its turbo upgrade time for the BBC!
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"And just like that, FB marketplace had no more BBCs" -Forrest Gump
Lol
Good thing us old guys keep our big blocks too because there's always something about a big block that's bored and stroked that makes it a whole lot of fun
im 25 years old ive only seen a handful of big blocks in my lifetime at the junkyard they are rare now. 5.3/4.8LS engines and 5.7 vortec's are a dime a dozen though.
@@GnarshredProductions there wanting more and more for them anymore
I used to tour the salvage yards fairly regularly back in the early 80's through the late 90's, it was rare to see Chevy big blocks there even though a lot of them were still around and on the road but there were plenty of buick/olds/ pontiac 455's, cadillac 472's and 500's, ford 400's and 460's, chrysler 400's and 440's to be had for cheap...my theory is that the people who owned the yards pulled most of the BBC's out of the vehicles and saved them for themselves or their buddies before the vehicle ever made it out to the public area.
That BBC will absolutely dethrone the LS. You'll only need to turn 7000 or less and with the right cam it will easily hold that kind of power. Cant wait!
That torque curve from the BIg Block with the s480 is crazy good.. 800+ ft lbs. to eternity.
I don't think the mismatched intake cost any power either. People used to do the same with minimal losses N/A.
And I hope the BB 454 is the next vid We get to see!
More cubes more flow more power! Your channel is like CRACK for noob like me.
I really appreciate these videos! Especially with the gen6 454.
Thanks for sharing!
Now I want to see what the stock 8.1 can do with a 80/96 T6 1.32, then again with a good cam swap setup with the rest of the motor stock. For the 3/4 or 1 ton truck guys to see what a cam and turbo can get them compared to the engine swaps.
I have been waiting for this ALL MY LIFE!!!!
Thank you for the excellent follow ups! Educating many and helping us all make less mistakes with our combos. Your videos will be referenced more and more as you gain popularity!
I would love to have seen the T6 S475 on the BBC. The 475 has more than enough compressor flow. I surmise we would have seen similar hp with lower drive pressure and better bsfc with the T6 S475.
But I still love the content!
Yep more flow on the hot side. Big a/r turbine housing for big engines..
@@dr_tate Big wheel and big ar for big ci.
Agreed
a t-6 doesnt mean anything if the a/r is small. the turbine housing still chocked the motor. the T-4 with a 1.32 a/r is much bigger but he never mentioned which a/r housing he had on the t-6. none the less good content. ima big block builder f*** LS. no numbers can match torque with a big block in the given rpm for less $$
@@musclekingmedia agreed! I love all engine combos but the Ls cult mentality anymore is just as bad as the Mopar crowd. Ffs theres plenty of ways to make boosted 4 digits on junkyard big blocks. I really get a kick out of people who say that turbos are a replacement for displacement. Kinda true, till you boost that larger displacement engine. Then the whole sloppy crowd "you can't do a big block boosted setup as cheap as a turbo LS blah blah blah." But I think Richard has beyond proven that to be a far cry from true. JY gen 5 or 6 block, factory gen 6 heads, cam swap and booooooost. Really the only extra cost is the efi conversion. Which Is about as simple as a terminator x, dual sync distributor, and an efi intake manifold. Oh wow, it cost me an extra $600 to make far more (average) boosted torque and HP than an Ls, whooptie f*n do!
Pretty informative. One thing hardly ever discussed when doing EFI on a Turbo setup is the ease at which you can add sensors to most systems for datalogging pressures and temperatures. Thanks for posting Another great video!
Oval port heads work fine with square port intakes, been the hot bracket racing set-up for years. And I would have been much more interested in seeing the results of the 454 and TWO eBay turbos...
I am also curious about the big block with two eBay turbos. Dollar for dollar, if the results are even similar, I think those Chinese deals are the way to go.
Did you port match it?
@@proudvwoner No. I never tried it myself, but I knew several who did, and they did not make any attempt to match up the ports at all.
@@1214coty i have a gen6 454 that'll get ebay chinese war whistles ill definitely do a vid on that
Those afr heads will make a big difference 🙏
Yeah those rectangle port heads will open it up. Thx for the video Richard. Great work
Now you should compare the s475 to the s480 on the 4.8!
I 2nd that motion
The smaller t4 housing on the s480 would probably help the 4.8.. vs the big t6 on the s475
Second that. I want to see the difference in a back pressure and boost from a “properly” sized turbo to a heavily over sized turbo
Add in the new vsr 87/82 1.10 t4 billet 80 comp also for good measure. The wheel size seems to be the bigger difference than the housing footprint.
Love this video! Really looking forward to the Big Bang Big Block when you're ready to post it!!
I love your channel, keep those videos coming!
This channel is becoming one of my favorites I'm a Honda sfwd guy these rules apply to all engines keep up the good content.
I've done lots of Honda testing too-wrote three books on them
It would be very interesting if you'll be able to test TWIN gt45 setup on any LS-based engine (probably 5.3 is the most popular nowadays)
Thanks for the great content! 🙌👍
Really looking forward to the results👍🏻
Good to see some drive /driven ratio comparisons !
Richard: If the rods can take it I’ll guess 1600hp @ 25 psi. I would like to see the twin S480sxe 87mm turbine 1.25 ar.
I wanna see how twin gt45s run on the big block
I was hoping for this as well
Me2
Yes. Would one on each bank help? I want to know.
you are going for the biggest bang for the buck ever theory love it.
I swear he did that already in a video, and has more boost than back pressure all the way up
I'd like to see two of the Ebay turbos on the big block and see the numbers there with back pressure
Look at that fat torque curve, this would be a very fun engine
Once she goes Kaboom try a L21 - This is a L29.
As quoted from wikipedia :
The Vortec 7400 L21 was a commercial version of the Chevrolet Big-Block engine used in the medium duty truck platform (L29). Its design shared much with the L29 454, but with the addition of forged pistons and crankshaft, and coil near plug ignition.
the L21 is hard to come across in the wrecking yard
What a great day! Waking up to these videos
The charts and graphs are great, but I think seeing the dyno runs would make great viewing too
Didn't this video have dyno runs?
@@richardholdener1727
Yes sir, I commented too early, but I said this after I watched some other videos that were mostly graphs and dyno power lines, you did picture the parts you were using, keep up the great work, it's very informative 👍
Let's see off shelf rod piston 454 deal with those s475s from summit would be interesting and fairly budget friendly
I'm building a fully forged 496 BBC with specd cam an promaxx 320cc heads 11 to 1 compression shooting for 15-20lbs boost. If the stock block stays together. splayed 4bolt main arp main an head studs. Super excited to see what numbers i get outta it.
Yes! Just logged in to see if this was out. It wasn't I was sad, but 4 minutes later it's here. Awesome job Richard.
Keen to see them both done with stock heads and cams maxed out
@@dj4monie Coz im a gay honda fan boi who wants what they do stock, While your right we wont see any shifting gears on a engine dyno. I want to see what the stock Ls vs 454 engine with the same turbo, without performance upgrades like billet heads, cams etc can do. Its a truer comparison of the engines as they are without blurring the lines between them with different upgrades.
When you post the video of the AFR Vs dart heads please give an idea of the flow numbers if you can
Can't wait to see the second video of intercooler testing with nitrous
I would love to see the data like this on a super rampy turbo set-up vs a linear one!
Richard Holdener
I love s400s I have 3 a 464 475 and a 488 . Great turbos . I want to get the 92mm s400.
HANDS Holdener! 👍
Can't beat this content Richard!! I still say a pair of $130 GT45s will outperform that slightly pricey S480 though. If you can't get DNA Motoring or MaXpeedingRods to sponsor one or two to you (I think I can make that happen), then I will kick $20 into the pot to contribute toward it. :)
thnx-i have two
@@richardholdener1727 Sweet!!
We need the Big Block Big Bang Richard!! Is it on the horizon yet?
Stock 454 peanut port heads stick a cheap summit cam in. Twin Gt 45 turbos and it should crest 900 hp! Give it to us Richard because that will be the all time big bang for the buck theory ever.
Craaaazy torque af
If you were closer I would loan my Gen5 502 with it’s Super Ram EFI square port setup to see what kind of HP it would be capable of putting out 🤔
Gen VI big blocks usually start to die around 900HP so it will be interesting. Oiling system and rods I believe are the weak link. I ran a GenVI Junkyard 454 with Edelbrock 100CC RPM heads, bigger hyd roller and a 180 nitrous shot for 2 full seasons index racing before the main bearings went due to the stock oiling system. We estimate that we were making 750 HP total. I still have the replacement stock Gen VI 454 without nitrous going strong for 10 years now.
we've gone over 1,200 hp with a Gen 6 so far
@@richardholdener1727 I'm sure it will take it for a while. I'd be curious how the main or rod bearings look after multiple pulls though.
Richard, can you do a test showing two turbos with different A/R ratio?
I would like to see a back pressure test between the t4 .125 92 turbine vs the bigger t6 .132 92turbine also . Using same compressor.
Damn that would demolish the grades I have to tow up around here!
Richard could you do a late model Chevy 8.1 turbo video?
Let's see one where you just swap out the exhaust housing for a larger one! This turbo is a better fit for sure, but from what I've seen on Gale Banks' videos, he prefers closest to a 1:1 boost/backpressure ratio, but what I don't know if that's for continuous load like towing, or for peak ratio. I think there may be some power to be had with a larger hot side, it should be able to reduce back pressure, and thus fill the cylinder better. With a high back pressure you're essentially subtracting boost pressure off the engine during cam overlap and squashing exhaust flow, leading to CO2 in the cylinder during combustion.
I can make more power at 1:1, but response can suffer
@@richardholdener1727 I wonder what the modern, hyper-engineered and heavily turbo'd modern cars look like? Like the focus RS and what not. Do they have boost/backpressure curves that cross, or what.
hi Richard I think the rods will give out around 1100 to 1200 foot pounds of torque less you can manage the MBT pressures by cutting back the timing and then bring the timing back in to make higher horsepower but I don't think the rods will the last past 1100 1200 foot pounds of torque
Let’s see this same build on bbf!
You must like smoke and flames.
Nice comparison. And i have 2 GT45/T4-.82 a/r turbos with 72mm compressor wheels on my 468 BBC. Dang!
Whats the comp ratio on this 454? What are the cam specs?
I wanted to see a single S485 w/1.32AR, round port heads, good Hyd roller, 10.5:1 CR on E and 18psi.
But I will be happy with whatever you show us on the Big Bang Big Block. Those 80lb injectors gotta be close to maxing out as is.
Are those 7/16" rod bolts? I predict the rod bolts are too weak and it pinches a rod bearing before 1200hp. Thanks for all your work!
We have put stock gen 6 454's in monster trucks with great success. I'm thinking 1475hp and the rods with let go.
Kinda curious as to what a Big Bang 8.1L 496 from like 2001 or so would hold up to. No clue what heads could go on it, but they are supposedly stout
I’m more surprised that those injectors were enough for the big block.
what size were they?
80#
Also remember this engine does not spin a lot of rpms which gives the injectors more time to flow a given amount of fuel .
The reason I was x asking I'm building a 496 bbc afr 345 heads 10.5 to1 compression solid roller and running the holley sniper 4500 was trying to see if my injectors were going to be enough but I'm turning 6500 to 7000 th-cam.com/video/BqP4bp4Iksw/w-d-xo.html twin borg warner www.jegs.com/i/BorgWarner/156/177272/10002/-1
clinton owens check out vs racing’s 210lbs injectors
With a few bottomend component upgrades I believe the big block and taken to 1800
427 bbc single 88mm T6 1.58 A\R. Thoughts on that turbo? GM 990 heads. Single plane intake blow through 850 carb. Steel crank, dimple 7/16 shot peened rods w good bolts. Forged 9.5.1 pistons.
with a good cam that works but what power level?
Appreciate you using screen recording software now vs trying to record the monitor with a camera. Quality is so much nicer. Are we talking L29 or L21 for the Gen 6 big block?
L29-the L21s are hard to find
great channel, I'm waiting for it to take off
When is the big bang 454 coming? Lol I'm still waiting to see it
I think the 6.0 ls will remain the king of Big Bang
I dont have a lot of faith in the rods/bolts and the main caps not having some sort of failure but that's not important. You mentioned this turbos flow and back pressure is starting to show it having unfavorable characteristics. Do you have the data from the big bang 6.0? Something similar to this one let's see some justice and match that ratio even if you think its gonna dump its guts through the pan. All that work to not apple to apple. Good stuff! So many ideas to try still
the big bang 6.0l has less back pressure than boost pressure at every boost level-29 psi boost ans 22 psi back
Yeah the big block will make more
Here I was thinking we would only see ls content, ha! Should have known better.
I suppose we could also conclude, higher backpressure, better spool response? Subjective, sure, but backpressure can gauge how hard you’re leaning on that turbo for power.
Richard, I really want to see if you can trump the 1500 horsepower ls. I do remember an article in hotrod of a twin turbo gen v 454 that was making about 1200-1300 the article was removed from the site. Why i have no clue. You can still find the cover page but cannot view the rest of the article. Please do it big!
Awesome work once again
Any chance you could test the on3 94mm or 107mm turbos? They are $850-1050 right now. An ls based 427 has seen 12-1300 rear wheel with the billet 107mm here on youtube😁
Good info. Id still like to see if a narrow lsa cam will work better with the bigger lower back presser turbos. Got a 355sbc with a curcl track style cam and a s475 t6, work good but havnt dynoed or tryed other cams yet
I think the big block will make more power than the 6.0
When is the big bang big block test coming out?
I think the big block will struggle to match the power. It’s going to take a lot of torque and cylinder pressure to match that power with significantly less rpm.
Awesome video love watching it and everything else. Opening up the ring gap is it just a set amount or is there a threshold that it should be more with more boost causing more heat? What ring gap did you use here?
we ran .032 gap on the stock rings
Love the channel brother! I'm curious about big power with full streetable exhaust. How much power does it kill and/or how big does it need to be? 700+ hp, with cats and mufflers
Best videos on the intranet
With the big block should you should go for 2000hp;)! O and just how much ring gap r u putting in there🤔🤔🤔
it won't get there
How about running some of these tests on the 4.3 LV3? Those have 6 bolt mains too don't they?
This is partly the video I’ve been waiting for!! I love the big blocks, but I don’t think it’s going to stay together north of 1600HP. I can hardly wait till the next one!! Was this on a single 60mm waste gate?
I dont think its gonna make 1300
I’m hopeful it will last, but I’m guessing it’ll see 1400.
twin TS 45 gates
Great content, been anxiously waiting for this video. 2 questions. Is the summit turbo a little bit bigger than the one tested on this BBC and is the gen6 bbc bottom end the same as the mark4?
the Summit S475 turbo is smaller than the S480-only the T6 turbine housing was bigger than the T4 used on the S480
Gen V and VI bottom ends are all 4 bolt main and one piece rear main seal. Gen IVs can be 2 or 4 bolt main and have 2 piece main seals. Gen VI is a factory roller cam block with cam retainer plate. Gen V/VI both have a crank sensor wheel up front. Gen V/VI both are factory cast iron cranks/rods/pistons. IVs are mostly cast bottom end except for hi perf models from 60s-early 70s.
More gen 6 454 content please!
doing a 468 bbc with twin gt45 turbos we will see what it does on 12 lbs but all forged bottom end
Hey Richard, how about doing some big block Ford boost. There's more than plenty of videos on here with bbc stuff all the time.
Hey Richard, i wanna see a test with the gt45 on the 454 where you add more and more wastgate's to the cross pipe to see if back pressure drops with gate flow. cheers
It already has two gates
I know, i meen start with one then keep adding them 1,2,3,4,5 just to see if wastgate flow will help lower the back pressure
Hey Richard, did you ever do the big bang on the big block?
NOT YET
Just my two cents from my experience a stock big block can make around 1800 then the main caps start walking and flexing to much and you end up breaking the crank or bending a rod from the geometry getting unstable. Billet mains are pretty cheap I am currently going that route just to see how much you can get before you split the block itself p.s. on aftermarket blocks your limited to around 2500 because of the 7/16 head studs you end up lifting the heads around 50 pounds with decent compression
a stock (high-mileage) BBC from the junkyard with stock, cast crank, rods and pistons?
Richard Holdener I’ll admit its a roll of the dice a bit with the rods because they are so heavy but as long as you keep the rpm below 7k they have a chance. Also depends on if you got a forged or cast crank from the factory only ever messed with forged was told cast cranks give up around 1k hp don’t know myself though. Good luck keep up the vids looking forward to it
Richard Holdener also Richard have you thought of an apples to apples comparison of your arf heads and Chinese white racing engines sells a set ready to bolt on for around 1100 for the budget guy seems too good to pass up I’m sure the afr’s are more efficient but curious under boost how much you are giving up per $. just a thought sorry for the horrible grammar have a good one
Hey Richard , I’m building a 496 for a 86 k10 4x4 . What would you recommend as far as cam, heads and turbo if I want to get the most out of it yet still be reliable and be able to daily drive it if desired. Thank you !!
too many choices there-for sub 1000 hp-pick and s475 or s480 like I had here-then just pick decent heads and a mild cam and you will be happy
I’ve been searching for someone doing this for a while now. I would like to see a BBC turbo with terrible stock head castings too. The same way guys turbo their 5.3s. I also wish you would talk more about the set up. What computer are you running? How long did it take you to tune? What sensor suite are you using? Even if it’s just stock....
I would like to see the s480 on the 4.8 and could you explain the AR ratios to me.
I don't remember the final output on the 4.8 but wasn't it similar to what you just got out of the big block? For the price of that precision Turbo alone that entire 4.8 could have been in a car and running. Not to mention the dart heads and fuel injection system. I love big blocks but it's hard to argue with a $10000 build versus a $2000 build
It was close but the boost was a lot higher
neither was pushed to the limit of their respective turbos and $10K? Thats way more than this BBC cost-I also have other tests with the stock heads on another junkyard bbc.
Seems like a precision s480 was over $2k? Last I looked at dart heads they started around there as well. Same with the efi system. Is that a flat tappet cam? The stick alone is $350+. And if it's roller, the retrofit lifters are 500-700. Fill in the exhaust, and other items needed to duplicate your setup at retail pricing, plus any machine work abs a $150 gasket set.
Adds up quick, even with just ballpark pricing.
Trust me, I wish it were different. I have a beautiful sq body GM truck with a 2000 mile remanufactured 454. I really would love to keep it, but thr cost to build something that's a decent performer out if it is hard to justify when LS swaps are so cheap, plentiful, and proven performers.
Now, what would the numbers look like, if you used the eBay turbo (and its low end boost) to spool the better turbo?
see the GT45 turbo 454 video
@@richardholdener1727 Btw, I absolutely love your channel. I’ve been watching you, between my wife’s and mine accounts, for about 5-6 years now. In fact, it was your channel that helped me decide between Mopar, FoMoCo & GM, for my last big build (decided on building an LS swap for a Subaru, using the Subaru drivetrain/AWD and an LS/Subaru adapter plate.
Great video
Thank you for sharing the information. What boost to backpressure ratio is acceptable? After these videos I am planing to put a sensor to measure backpressure :)
depends on the power output and spool rate you want
I’d really like to know how to size the correct turbo for any engine, where’s some good information it?
To do that you need to learn about compressor maps.. there is some math involved. Once you understand compressor maps you will intuitively know how to correctly size a turbo
th-cam.com/video/0Lv4yjiuJSU/w-d-xo.html this guys video is really good
ill be doing a vid on compressor maps
All this talk of backpressure vs boost... What if you want more power down low with a smaller turbo but not be smashing your BBC at nearly 5700 RPMs? Will all that backpressure hurt the motor or turbo? Just curious as to what would fail first at this point if something could be damaged. Also, just for kicks, could we see a Gen 6 BBC with normal-ish heads and intake with a turbo hung on it??
normal(ish) head? Excessive back pressure can definitely hurt-can create unwanted heat and detonation
@@richardholdener1727 Yeah, a set of heads someone could find for pretty cheap. Maybe out of a junkyard or OE style castings from Jegs or Summit. It'd be cool to see where the choke points are and what you can get away with, without a set of $1,600- $2,500 heads.
What size wastegate are you using throughout all of this single turbo testing and is it sufficient all of the time (well, in cases when you have the right size turbo)?
As for the big block - if you are gonna keep putting better heads and cam in it so it can rev up, yes! It can beat the LS and stay together. My guess is you need 650hp or more NA at around 7000 for it to have a chance, and getting to that depends on how much valve to piston clearance those stock pistons have to get a big enough cam in there. If not, well, RIP those connecting rods...
Holy snike that torque curve i guess you always wanted a cadillac to push the 8 second realm lol
From the "get-go," I can tell you the injectors are ill equipt to handle all that beautiful boost.
Question for ya: being that you are running a single turbo, one header has a shorter path to the turbo than the other. Does that help reduce "lag?" The other header is substantially longer. Do you think that could be a good property to have, or does it cause an issue in your tuning method? (I can't afford two turbos of sufficient size. I recently lost my left leg to the Big-C and $ is an issue).
I am preparing to build a single turbo 582 BBC, short deck, for my 67 El Camino 4-link, A-Body beauty. Routing the piping is a bit tricky when installing the intercooler.
there is no difference in lag between the sides (the pressure quickly equalizes since the turbo is the limiting factor)
Now 4 ebay turbos on 454. Lol be interesting to see 2cyl per. If it will spool them.
Dam now I'm now I'm gonna have go go grab a gen6 big block. I think I could put a pretty bad ass sbe 454 together that won't cost a arm and a leg together my pawpaw used to bracket race and had two big block setups and still has the Brodix aluminum heads they where made in the late 90's because he put that motor together in 2002 when I was 12 and he bought them used he just didn't like the big block and went back to a small block. I could have those heads freshened up have little custom ground hydraulic roller from LJMS setup basic comp push rods pac valve springs some rollr rockers a used edelbrock victor intake a used big boy CSU methanol blow thru carb and of course freshen up the gen6 big block, arp rod bolts, main and rod bearings bearings (just for a piece of mind) and ring gap some arp head studs a decent head gaskets, a very basic summit billet distributor or used msd a used msx digital 7AL and a good msd coil some a really simple turbo kit with two 60mm VS racing waste gates and a one of VS racings 7+7 billet wheel journal bearing 106mm turbo with at least a open 1.40 exhaust housing possibly a 1.32 and just do your best to make every dollar go as far as possible and make sure you got enough fuel pump to keep that bad boy full of alcohol that combo could make some serious power and last a while if you dont spin it to high I'm thinking 1200hp and1300+a time or two with a sbe LoL and especially if you're good and patient at tuning blow thru carbs and a good tuner in general if you took your time and looked for deals I think you could put that setup together for less than 6 or 7,000 dollars. But fill the block, keep water in the heads a 800 dollar eagle forged crank and some aluminum rods with not many runs on them but finding stock length aluminum rods might be hard lol so some used steel callies,lunati or crower rods could still handle over 1500+hp not much more for atleast a season or longer at that power level with good machinework for less than 10k that's not alot of money for that kind of power and I'f you got a pretty light weight decent small tire car with a good chassis that's a mid 4 second car that would be a bad ass budget grudge combo
Do more with the stock fuel injection
Hey Richard would a 496 with 2 eBay gt45 turbos work well with 12.1 compression ratio what would work best a single bw turbo or twin.
Get rid of the back pressure and TURN IT UP.
Let's Go!!!!!
Be good to test bigger ex off the turbo with big power tunes
How do you use the HP ECU with only 4 input/output? Do you use a stand alone boost controller? Do you use the HP to log the boost pressure and back pressure? I'm leaning towards a megasquirt to get enough input/output for a turbo application. I wish Holley or someone would make a Canbus add-on box with additional I/O for the HP.
454 vs ls old school 454 All day long !