Interesting to note, that when your boat heels up, your traveler doesn't move, but your mainsail trimmer eases the sheet. But you pull the helm/tiller up to keep the boat from rounding up. And when Oakcliff tacks to what I'd call a safe leeward position in the 2nd encounter you are so focused on yelling at them you're all over the place. Might want to consider appointing your most vocal crew to do the yelling and focus on driving! 2nd on constant windward helm!
I'll add my $0.02 as an armchair protest committee: First - OakCliff fouls the crap out of the blue boat at the start of the clip. But that's not why we are here. Tack at 1:00 - Even though OakCliff had completed the tack, they fell off past close-hauled during the tack and therefore Rule 13 applies. They must keep clear until they have reached a close-hauled course. At 1:02 you can see they are quite below a close-hauled course. I would say foul by OakCliff Black but iffy, they could have tacked like a second earlier it would have been fine probably. Tack at 4:38 - They do tack a hair earlier, and dont go down as far in the tack. They complete and then the video boat becomes overtaking boat and needs to keep clear. No penalty. Very close. But im just a dude behind a keyboard and its fun to talk about. If you aint rubbin, you aint racin.
I agree with you. as soon as sails fill on the new tack you are no longer a tacking boat. sailing slow after a tack is not a crime. Instead of yelling the second time. The starboard boat could have sailed 3-5 degrees low for a few meters to gain speed and get the port boat to tack to early making it harder for them to reach the mark, as well as making it easier to gain some distance sideways between the boats after the tack... But thinking ahead is not always easy and seeing things afterwards is also much easier than during a race.
"they fell off past close-hauled during the tack and therefore Rule 13 applies". This is wrong. Falling off past closehauled is irrelevant so far as R13 is concerned. You keep clear until you reach closehauled for the first time, even if you pass through it.
first foul - tacking boat gains ROW at 1:01. at this time starboard boat is already in the process of taking action to avoid a collision. clear foul by the tacking boat. there is no room for debate here, clear as day. second foul - even more clear than the first foul, tacking boat does not gain ROW until 4:42 and the ROW is taking action to avoid collision well in advance. it is a shame to see skippers at this level unwilling to take responsibility for their fouls on the water. well done starboard boat for avoiding collision twice. I hope the protest committee brought the hammer.
On the second encounter if they just sailed the boat I expect they would have rolled them. First encounter they should have been prepared for the tack and at the very least nailed it….. Just sail the boat guys and protest more professionally. It’s a win win.
Both look ok to me too, albeit it’s hard to tell from these shots… Main thing that’s clear is how slow it is to shout - lots of rudder input / off the breeze / weight off the rail!
Both are clean maneuvers by Black, no rules broken. Might be uncomfortably close (but that can be expected from a boat from match racing school), but you did not have to (and also didnt) luff before they completed their tack to avoid contact. Also, I admire your really clean looking nice cockpit, what boat is it?
Looks like the boat was a Farr 400 and the boat inside of her was a Farr 40 based on the shape of the Hull. The the 1996 Farr 40 could hold off the 2010 Farr 400 upwind.
Well I’m glad I’m not sharing the water with many of the commenters here. Both encounters are clear port/starboard infringements. In the first the port tack boat clearly tacked into the starboard tack boat’s water forcing a course alteration to avoid a collision and in the second the starboard tacker would have collided with the port tacker had the starboard boat not altered course. Both absolutely clear infringements with video evidence! How on Earth are you people not seeing that
By 4:42 Oakcliff has completed tack, up until that the video boat did not have to alter course, and it also did not. Exactly then the video boat became give way boat as it was overtaking. The only question was did Oakey leave enough time to react after they completed the tack and the obvious answer is yes since video boat was able to do so with plenty of margin. Sure a lee bow pisses off the video boat helmsman, it's an added bonus for Oakey.
@@sailawayteam I disagree, but leaving that there, and having been disqualified by on water referees for far less, good luck with pulling that off. Generally referees put the onus on the give way boat to prove they did give way which in a protest room is even more difficult in “he said she said” situations like these unless there are corroborating witnesses. Remember, the whole idea of the RRS is to avoid collisions completely and line ball matters are commonly decided in favour of the stand on vessel.
@@PaulBKal I hear you but I've seen this on giving and receiving end without foul. Might be different in match race but in fleet race protest hearing proving a foul is gonna be very hard when the protesting boat did not (have to) alter course when right of way boat and had time to do so when give way.
I have had this happen to me before. And I was told be everyone at club, if the boat completed the tack (jib set) you are now the over taking vessel. The RRS are so dumb. I would prefer COLREGS based rules
Nice work! Looks like the rudder spends alot of time away from the centre. You might need to rake the mast forward slightly if you want to improve that.
Well-sailed Oakcliff clearly infringed twice as Farr 40 on Starboard was required to alter course to avoid a collision on both occasions must be some rivalry between those two
Oakcliff had a crappy tack on 1st encounter, but looks like they were clear. Surprising that the blue boat which altered course didn't yell at them too!
Interesting to note, that when your boat heels up, your traveler doesn't move, but your mainsail trimmer eases the sheet. But you pull the helm/tiller up to keep the boat from rounding up. And when Oakcliff tacks to what I'd call a safe leeward position in the 2nd encounter you are so focused on yelling at them you're all over the place. Might want to consider appointing your most vocal crew to do the yelling and focus on driving! 2nd on constant windward helm!
Good idea. Keep the helmsman focused on the task!
I'll add my $0.02 as an armchair protest committee:
First - OakCliff fouls the crap out of the blue boat at the start of the clip. But that's not why we are here.
Tack at 1:00 - Even though OakCliff had completed the tack, they fell off past close-hauled during the tack and therefore Rule 13 applies. They must keep clear until they have reached a close-hauled course. At 1:02 you can see they are quite below a close-hauled course. I would say foul by OakCliff Black but iffy, they could have tacked like a second earlier it would have been fine probably.
Tack at 4:38 - They do tack a hair earlier, and dont go down as far in the tack. They complete and then the video boat becomes overtaking boat and needs to keep clear. No penalty. Very close.
But im just a dude behind a keyboard and its fun to talk about. If you aint rubbin, you aint racin.
I agree with you. as soon as sails fill on the new tack you are no longer a tacking boat. sailing slow after a tack is not a crime. Instead of yelling the second time. The starboard boat could have sailed 3-5 degrees low for a few meters to gain speed and get the port boat to tack to early making it harder for them to reach the mark, as well as making it easier to gain some distance sideways between the boats after the tack... But thinking ahead is not always easy and seeing things afterwards is also much easier than during a race.
"they fell off past close-hauled during the tack and therefore Rule 13 applies". This is wrong. Falling off past closehauled is irrelevant so far as R13 is concerned. You keep clear until you reach closehauled for the first time, even if you pass through it.
first foul - tacking boat gains ROW at 1:01. at this time starboard boat is already in the process of taking action to avoid a collision. clear foul by the tacking boat. there is no room for debate here, clear as day. second foul - even more clear than the first foul, tacking boat does not gain ROW until 4:42 and the ROW is taking action to avoid collision well in advance. it is a shame to see skippers at this level unwilling to take responsibility for their fouls on the water. well done starboard boat for avoiding collision twice. I hope the protest committee brought the hammer.
On the second encounter if they just sailed the boat I expect they would have rolled them.
First encounter they should have been prepared for the tack and at the very least nailed it…..
Just sail the boat guys and protest more professionally. It’s a win win.
Both look ok to me too, albeit it’s hard to tell from these shots…
Main thing that’s clear is how slow it is to shout - lots of rudder input / off the breeze / weight off the rail!
No comments about lost boom/main in the first tack?
happy with the load cells?
Both are clean maneuvers by Black, no rules broken. Might be uncomfortably close (but that can be expected from a boat from match racing school), but you did not have to (and also didnt) luff before they completed their tack to avoid contact.
Also, I admire your really clean looking nice cockpit, what boat is it?
She's on a starboard tack, not port, then she tacks to port.
Looks like the boat was a Farr 400 and the boat inside of her was a Farr 40 based on the shape of the Hull. The the 1996 Farr 40 could hold off the 2010 Farr 400 upwind.
Farr 400 has an offset hatch and flush deck
@@timotheyszczepanski6644 Yes, I have been inside one in Dubai at the Premire Composites Factory.
Well I’m glad I’m not sharing the water with many of the commenters here. Both encounters are clear port/starboard infringements. In the first the port tack boat clearly tacked into the starboard tack boat’s water forcing a course alteration to avoid a collision and in the second the starboard tacker would have collided with the port tacker had the starboard boat not altered course. Both absolutely clear infringements with video evidence! How on Earth are you people not seeing that
By 4:42 Oakcliff has completed tack, up until that the video boat did not have to alter course, and it also did not. Exactly then the video boat became give way boat as it was overtaking. The only question was did Oakey leave enough time to react after they completed the tack and the obvious answer is yes since video boat was able to do so with plenty of margin. Sure a lee bow pisses off the video boat helmsman, it's an added bonus for Oakey.
@@sailawayteam I disagree, but leaving that there, and having been disqualified by on water referees for far less, good luck with pulling that off. Generally referees put the onus on the give way boat to prove they did give way which in a protest room is even more difficult in “he said she said” situations like these unless there are corroborating witnesses. Remember, the whole idea of the RRS is to avoid collisions completely and line ball matters are commonly decided in favour of the stand on vessel.
@@PaulBKal I hear you but I've seen this on giving and receiving end without foul. Might be different in match race but in fleet race protest hearing proving a foul is gonna be very hard when the protesting boat did not (have to) alter course when right of way boat and had time to do so when give way.
I have had this happen to me before. And I was told be everyone at club, if the boat completed the tack (jib set) you are now the over taking vessel.
The RRS are so dumb. I would prefer COLREGS based rules
The first was a pretty poor execution of a lee bow tack, but never the less they were through their tack with sails full. The second was pretty dodgy.
That skipper/owner should just focus on sailing nothing else!
Nice work! Looks like the rudder spends alot of time away from the centre. You might need to rake the mast forward slightly if you want to improve that.
Strikes me as desirable- rudder acts as lifting surface. Trim tabs operate this way, on boats that have them.
you are the only thing that is too far forward hahaha
@@dap777754dragging the rudder through the water sideways to combat weather helm is slow.
No amount of sail trim can fix incorrect mast rake. @johnmartlew
@@thomaselliott573sounds like the mast tip and me both need to be raked forward 😂
bad ass what boat?
La barre pas dans l’axe c’est un frein
Probably the Italians
The tack is at 4:32 - too close for me. Clearly took action to avoid.
Another vote for no foul against either starboard tack boat. No foul at 4:41 either, but it was close
Tacking was wrong decision
That's twice you .........s
Well-sailed Oakcliff clearly infringed twice as Farr 40 on Starboard was required to alter course to avoid a collision on both occasions must be some rivalry between those two
Oakcliff had a crappy tack on 1st encounter, but looks like they were clear. Surprising that the blue boat which altered course didn't yell at them too!
Main sail trimer is really bad!!!!
This is not a Farr 40
Nice action and good boat speed. A bit too much anxiety which is the usual thing