What about the Peverell's history with the Potters. The effect of that history of the Hallows on Harry. Or maybe that's two videos. I liked all your theories/reasons for Gellert lying to Voldemort as bout the Elder wand..
Two ideas: A chronology of wizard bloodlines, much like what @maryholder3795 said. It would be fascinating to try and map out families and their relations. For example, we can see that Harry's family was extensive in the Mirror of Erised, how might it have compared to Ron's family if the Potters lived on? Next, it is known in the lore that non-witches/wizards (e.g. goblins, vampires, elves) are banned from posessing wands. How would such a ban be enforced, and do we have any examples of such people actually using a wand? I have always wondered if it was even necessary to do so given how resourceful the magical beings are: elves can already cast spells that circumvent wizards' magic and goblins are accomplished magical smiths. If anything, a wand seems like necessary crutch for most, if not all, wizards.
I have a question for you. In the second book we learn that the entrance to the Chamber of secrets was down a slide. Harry and co got out with the help of Fawkes the fenix. But how did Ron and Hermione, who visited the chamber during the battle of Hogwarts, get out? And how did Tom Riddle get in and out of there when he opened the chamber fifty years earlier? The same goes for the slide under Fluffy in the first book. How did the teachers and Dumbledore get in and out, and how did they get a whole mountain troll in there? Would he even fit in the slide? Was there another entrance or did everyone fly in and out on brooms (which is what I assume Ron and Hemione used to get out)?
I have a question? Could Voldemort have created a horcrux out of the Elder Wand? If he had, would he gain more powerful magic through his body with the wand?
is this video based on personal conjecture or a cannon source? If from a cannon source, please do share so I may read up on some of this cannon lore and learn more about this than what could be shared in an ~8 min video... :)
At least one of the explanations given in the book must be correct. Right? 1. He tried to keep the Wand from Voldemort and do the right thing for once. Motivation: remorse. 2. He tried to protect Dumbledore's tomb from being desecrated by Voldemort. Motivation: loyalty to Dumbledore.
JKR commented that he did show a small bit of remorse in the end. To be honest, he may have not had feelings for Dumbledore, and just led him along, lying to him about any feelings. That's what a psychopath would do. They use people, and he did use Albus in helping him research the Hallows. It wasn't long, after he fled England, that he found the wand and stole it.
@@craxd1 JKR said Grindelwald was a *sociopath,* that's different. Basically, a psychopath has no emotions, he carefully plans his crimes and executes them in cold blood. A sociopath is impulsive, he commits crimes when he loses control of his emotions and can feel remorse afterwards. I think this description fits Grindelwald rather well. There were rumours that Gregorovitch had the Elder Wand, so Grindelwald could've found it on his own. In any case, Dumbledore did much *more* than help him locate the wand. He played a role in shaping Grindelwald's ideology, and I think Dumbledore's initial support gave him the confidence to proceed with his plan. Whether Grindelwald truly loved him or not, he enjoyed having him around as a talented and powerful companion. I had the impression he wanted it to be a long-term partnership.
@@Snidget-76 Hum... I don't think psychologists around the world agree with you definition... Sometimes psycopaths lose control too. And they fell a resemblance of remorse after. I believe that Grindewald lied to Voldemort because he is a compulsive liar and manipulator. He simple didn't wanto the rise of someone bigger than him...
I don't think Grindelmwald lied to Voldemort. I think he was telling the truth. He never had the true allegiance of the wand because he did not win it in combat. He stole it. The wand only changes it's allegiance to whomever wins combat with the person in possession of the wand. Dumbledore won the allegiance of the wand by winning it in combat with Grindelwald. But Grindelwald never won the allegiance of the wand to begin with, so he was never the rightful owner of the wand, and therefore, even though he had been in possession of it, he didn't really possess the wand. It's like someone steals your car. Do they own it because they stole it, or does it still rightfully belong to you? They may be in possession of your stolen car, but that doesn't make it theirs. Obviously, the previous owner of the wand died, and could no longer possess the wand, so the wand changed ownership with the next person to win combat with the person in possession of the wand, and at the time of Dumbledore's defeat of Grindelwald, and the previous owner had apparently already died, Dumbledore became the wand's target of allegiance.
@lindajonesartist you bring up a fact I'd certainly forgotten, Gellert stole the wand. It made perfect sense. However that's not the full story.Albus did win the allegiance of the wand because Gellert cast "he stunning spell Gellert cast on Gregorovitch was enough to make him the new Elder Wand owner" I got that information from screenrant
If the allegiance of the wand belonged to someone else it wouldn’t have transferred to Dumbledore upon Grindelwald’s defeat, such as when Voldemort killed Snape.
Easier said than done, because if albus won it, then the wand's power would never be 'broken' or lost as Dumbledore and Harry intent to do, because if someone stole it when they die, it would be the same cycle all over... if someone stole it & then defeats the thief it would start again... 🤔
This scene was one of the worst departures from the book. Rather than having Grindelwald lie to and mock Voldemort, then be tortured and murdered by him. Instead they have him tell the truth without coercion and be left alive. I understand that the writers of the final Harry Potter films tried to leave out as much as possible of the Dumbledore backstory as they could because of time constraints. But this was a pivotal moment for a character that would go on to greater prominence in the future movies. It may just be me, but that change really ticked me off.
I feel the same way. That was Grindelwald's redemption scene. But since he never stood up to Voldemort and even seemed to cooperate with him *in the movies,* does this mean there were also never supposed to be any signs of a possible redemption for Grindelwald in *FB?* Since in the movie canon, it never happened?
He said, 'It was never mine, you must know this, it will never be yours...'. Or something. He meant he never mastered it, he stole it and if Voldy took it from Dumbledore's tomb he wouldn't have won it either, so it wouldn't truly be his. Grindelwald attained a wisdom Voldemort never did.
Then it means the only way for Voldemort to becoming the True Master... is for someone else to take it FIRST (who will not become the Elder Wand Master), and THEN defeat them in a fair duel. -> This is the tricky part: The Elder Wand will be as deadly as usual regardless who is using it [so Voldemort may *not be able* to _"win"_ against someone wielding it]; but because also Voldemort has active horcruxes (meaning he can *not be defeated* in a true sense), it means any duel involving him can *never be fair* [until he is mortal again]. I like to think that since Dumbledore was indeed the "Last Master" (undefeated); by choosing to stay at the "King Cross Station" of the Afterlife´s Antechamber (waiting for Harry), he still had some connection/influence over the Elder Wand [explaining why it actively "resisted" against Lord Voldemort´s magic]; but after he fulfilled his "Last Mission" he departed to the Great Beyond (meaning he would not intervene on the Harry vs Voldemort final duel, making it "fair" once Nagini was destroyed by The True Chosen One [Neville]).
Something I suspect is that Grindewald foresaw the coming of Voldemort, and that his grand plan was to try to reign in the wizarding world to try and stop or mitigate his coming. Or something to that effect
Grindelwald in the book says he had been expecting Voldemort to come for a long time. Isn’t Grindelwald a seer? He probably foresaw the moment and knew he would die either way, that’s why he demands Voldemort to kill him repeatedly (before he gives up the lie)
You still have it completely wrong... The original owner of the Elder Wand was Death. It never performed to it's full potential for anyone who merely possessed it, as Death was still the original owner. Death gave the wand to Ignotus. The wand chooses the wizard, not the other way around. Every time the wand changed hands, it was merely going from one wizard to another without ever denying it's allegiance to Death. When Harry died in the forest and then returned from purgatory, Harry had at that point became the second true owner of the Elder Wand. Harry had defeated Death and the wand became Harry's. This is why Tom Riddle was unable to defeat Harry as the wand recognized Harry as the true owner.
The Hallows I do believe were intended to have been made by the brothers, they were simply talented and ingenious. The story is just that, a story inspired by the brothers' astonishing creations. Two of the artifacts are closely related to death, the stone obviously, and the wand being elder wood (a tree often associated with death and traditionally planted in graveyards) and thestral tail hair (as we know, a winged horse invisible to all who haven't witnessed death). Come to think of it I'm wondering if thestral hair (possibly along with the more usual demiguise hair) might have been used in creating the cloak, keeping the theme of death connection and possibly explaining its durability over regular invisibility cloaks?
There's no positive information stating that Grindelwald was against Mugglebones. Thereby protecting the wizarding world from Voldemort he was allowing the world to thrive in the magical sense because he knew how the cycle magic was through the bloodlines. And if Voldemort had achieved his goal the world would've been lost in terms of the magical sense.
as long as they had magic, they were wizards, out from how Grindelwald operated. and if they were wizards, he could potentially use them for his own agenda
@@MrEagorath Wizards are valuable on their own. Even to Grindelwald, not everything is a means to an end :) The betterment of Wizardkind, the way he sees it, is his true agenda.
@@Snidget-76 true, but.. everyone could be used in his agenda as well. Atleast the movie version of him, portrayed that perfectly well, that.. Initially a "good thought" but when pressed just a little to far, he was willing kill his own subordinate (that he tried to trick into killing the one thing he always wanted), tried to sway Dumbledore through fear ( "Who will love you now" ) and how he went from "no longer in the shadow" to "we are superior to them" and tossing crucio out like it was gifts on Kowalski :p
@@MrEagorath Grindelwald is one of my favourite characters, and I am disappointed they made him so one-dimensional in FB3. He wasn't so cartoonishly evil in the books and the first 2 FB films. It feels OOC to me. I think WB made him more like Voldemort because they thought HP fans would like it. They thought a simple good vs evil story was what most people wanted to see. So the film would make more money. The screenplay was also rewritten to wrap up the plot. I am sure that in the original version of FB3, Grindelwald did not torture Jacob, did not try to kill Credence, and their duel with Dumbledore did not happen. I don't consider FB3 canon.
@@Snidget-76 I agree, he went off the hinges quite a lot and it made it seem like his "complex nature, beliefs and characteristics" was just a fasade harboring just "I wanna be THE man and muggles must submit" It seems more likely that you are correct in that assessment and with the "established lore" surrounding this wouldn't be retconned.. may it have been connected with trying to differentiate the actors playing the same character due to the termoil the former one was in?
I wonder if your the owner of the elder wand you k ow when you lose it AND its path. He seemed to know Voldemort was too late. And Harry had an extra “magical” sense after he became the master of death, he knew subconsciously to go for horcuxes not hallows. I think having all three gave him an extra bit of power over Voldi.
I like the idea that Grindelwald had prevented Voldemort from having the power of the Elder Wand. Here's a question for you: did _anyone_ ever master it? Antioch killed an enemy then bragged about the wand. But the jealous man came while Antioch was asleep and stole it and slit Antioch's throat. Is that winning the wand's allegiance? Does anyone ever own Death's own wand?
my theory is that Grindewald did not lie because the elderwand was never truely his because he stole it and the wand had no alligens to him. I think that could be a possible explanation to how Dombledore also was able to defeat Grindewald, Dombledore may hve realised how the wand change alligens and gained it by defiding Gregorwitz and become the wands true master.
The elder wand doesn't seem to have lived up to its reputation. It doesn't appear to have been special and definitely didn't make its "master" invincible.
Well the Elder Wand's weakness is its power is based on the hubris that magic is always the best solution, nothing about it stops you from defeating the master of the Elder Wand another way.
It's possible Grindelwald was telling the truth. He stole the wand, he didn't over power the owner. He kept and used the wand, but it was never really his. When Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, Dumbledore overpowered Grindelwald and the wand set it's allegiance to Dumbledore. It's possible that at some point prior to that Dumbledore had over powered Gregorovitch (where Gregorovitch was using a different wand). This is very much like Voldemort not owning the wand, but still using it. Theft does not make one the owner.
He meant it was never his because he stole it instead of winning it, and thus he never had the wand's allegiance. He wasn't lying,, he was taunting him with the truth.
The wand's chooses the wizard and in this case the wand chooses who wins against the one currently in possession of it. So if its stolen the wand would do its job in a form of meh attitude. And i think not lying was the best way to deal with Voldemort, since he was already blinded by power and whatever he desires he won't recognise truth even if its in his face. And in this way Grindelwald show Dumbledore perhaps the love he could show in his position knowing even if Voldemort try to get it by stealing it will never work for him.
The wand chooses the wizard. The Elder Wand never got a chance to choose Grindelwald: he stole it. You can _never_ own something once you have stolen it. There is also a question whether Grigorevitch ever truly owned the Elder Wand: Grigorevitch is a dark wizard, but really doesn't seem dark enough to be the natural owner of the Elder Wand. Perhaps it is because the Elder Wand had a long period of not really belonging to anyone (Grigorevitch then Grindelwald) that the perception arose that it had always been a mythical artefact.
I have long believed the Grindlewald likely never saw himself as a Dark Lord. His goal was the protection of the wizarding world from Muggles, and he used the damage to Dumbledore's sister to influence the opinions of a power-hungry Dumbledore in his direction. He was more or less the equivalent of a Malcom X to many in the wizarding world. From this perspective, he sees in Voldemort not an ally but a new threat. Where Grindlewald saw Muggles as a threat to both themselves and wizards and slavery as the means to preserve both peoples, he recognized that Voldemort cared nothing for Muggle or Wizardkind. Worse, Voldemort cared nothing for the various magical creatures and non-wizard people that he trode across to gain his desire. Grindlewald saw in himself a protector and preserver. Voldemort was antithetical to his ideals, and for this reason, Grindlewald would never assist Voldemort in his second rise to power.
It is interesting to see how Tom had such little knowledge about the elder wand and it's unique rules, and that makes me wonder, what can possibly be the reason to that? I mean, surely he could learn anything he would've liked
because Tom was an arrogant and selfinflated person. He wanted the biggest and the baddest, everything restrictive and not "the best" was not good enough or shouldn't matter. Voldie wouldn't submit himself to the rules of others, his rule was what mattered and how he could express his rule on others. He only got the info he saw neccessary
So, in the story of Harry Potter, love is supposed to be the most powerful magic of all, but I wonder if someone was truly the master of the elder wand, and then tried to use Avada Kadavra on someone who is using a love protection what would happen because the elder wand is supposed to be unbeatable But also love is supposed to be the most powerful so it would be an unstoppable force colliding with an immovable object type of situation 🤔
In the book, Grindelwald lies to Voldemort to protect his ex-friend and slash the ex-lover which costs him his life in prison. In the film, Grindelwald tells Voldemort everything not to protect his ex-friend slash ex-lover from death which he is grateful for his final hours of life on earth.
sure, Grindelwald wasn't a maniac, he had understanding of the parties that didn't support him.. he didn't care particularly much about them, but he could understand their logic. Grindelwald was a very proud person, quite so to the level of being arrogant. Him then bowing down to a whelpling that couldn't spread his reign past the UK and that had a severely different ideology than him in regards to people and magic, would be a defeat of character and ideology. I think wholeheartedly, this had very little to do with the greater good of the magical world or his past with Albus. this was his pride
Do you truly believe Grindelwald lied to Credence about his *identity* and that he was the only one who could kill Albus Dumbledore? I'm certain it is the *real* reason he wanted to recruit him. FB3 obviously *retconned* Credence's intended storyline. They made him Albus' nephew rather than brother because most fans seemed to hate it. And they drastically *reduced his importance* because of the situation with Ezra Miller and as a part of the *rewrite to conclude the story with the 3rd film.* Is there any indication that he was lying to Queenie in FB2? There is no *reason* for Grindelwald to be against marriages with muggles. I don't remember him telling Queenie he wanted to protect muggles, but I believe in his world *wizards* would be able to marry whomever they want. It seems genuinely important to him that *wizards are not forced to hide who they are and what they want* in any way. Queenie read his mind and saw that, but she didn't *understand* that muggles, in general, would be considered *second-class citizens.* It would be another Snape-Lily situation. She wanted to have him so much she didn't care about the cost. That Queenie can marry Jacob in America all of a sudden is a *clear sign of another retcon.* And come on! What makes you think Grindelwald ever lied to Dumbledore? JKR once said he was a liar when talking about a *specific* scene, and everyone now considers it his *defining* trait. That WB even used it to justify their retcons pisses me off. The worst part is fans might start considering it canon now. *WB are the real liars here.*
What I dont get and perhaps I have to read the books again is that when Grindelwald lied to Voldemort that should have put the trail to a dead end. However Voldemort still openend the grave and got the want. Was that a lucky gues or did Grindlewalt failed to mislead him?
Because it was a hand me down as stated above and that would have stopped him from getting his own wand - why would you want to repair a used, and already made clear shoddy wand (in the first book its stated you can practically see the unicorn hair poking through the very end), and interrupt a kid who hated getting hand me downs from getting a new wand all of his own that chooses him?
I think it's pretty simple. Grindelwald was still in love with Dumbledore. He knew Dumbledore had the Elder Wand, so he lied to Voldemort to try to protect him.
L O V E He still loved Dumbledore and or because of that didn't also wanted to be killed Or (not remembering if he was killed ...) didn't want to live anymore. So being disobedient he could once again see Dumbledore - in the afterlife.
I think it was because Grindelwald realized how dangerous Voldemort was to the wizarding world, so he refused to reveal the location of the elder wand in order to deny Voldemort more power...
I thought it was next to impossible to lie to Voldemort. He could always sense when someone was being deceptive to him. ( one of the few exceptions being Snape)
The Grindelwald was powerful as well, one of the most convincing that they try to cut out his tongue when he was in prison so he must have a sort of silver tongue that people believe him
I think it's funny as hell that one Dumbledore was much younger man he actually was an evil wizard! I even believed that even at the point of his death he was secretly still an evil wizard. That's one of the reasons why he lived to be so old in the first place. It wasn't because his friend Nicholas Flamel was giving him the elixir of life. It's because he was using dark magic to prolong his natural demise.
I mean hard to say its overrated when it achieve feats otherwise thought impossible. What powers and other capabilities it had is up to debate and I myself wouldn't feel the power of it so much as id like to see the full range it was able to reach.
@@jamesrussell2936there is suppose to be 5. after 3, they realised its not making as much money as they had hoped. months ago they quoted as saying the rest of the movies were cancelled ... but now its up in the air whether they finish the series or not
@@msrainbowbrite that stinks. even though I know hollywood/etc is greedy, considering the amount of money those movies must cost if they don't make bank then I can see their point
@@jamesrussell2936 Maybe if Hollywood made movies that their larger audience wants, then they won't lose money. They're currently standing to lose a LOT with the new The Crow remake. They've absolutely shat on the comics, the original film, and the goths who love it. They don't listen. They're just like, "Here's my crappy fanfic of something iconic, please love it. 🥴"
I don't like the book here - he has been rotting in prison for so long and fought a duel to try and kill Dumbledore - I'm sorry but a random crush isn't going to impact people that much. In the book I think he lied to simply snub Voldemort. In the movie, which I like the scene better, I think there's a far more telling point on how Voldemort doesn't even seem angry at Grindelwald, never mind how he doesn't kill him. Voldemort kills on a whim. He respected, to the only point he could, Grindelwald and what he stood for.
Thanks for watching folks! What video next?
What about the Peverell's history with the Potters. The effect of that history of the Hallows on Harry. Or maybe that's two videos.
I liked all your theories/reasons for Gellert lying to Voldemort as bout the Elder wand..
Two ideas: A chronology of wizard bloodlines, much like what @maryholder3795 said. It would be fascinating to try and map out families and their relations. For example, we can see that Harry's family was extensive in the Mirror of Erised, how might it have compared to Ron's family if the Potters lived on? Next, it is known in the lore that non-witches/wizards (e.g. goblins, vampires, elves) are banned from posessing wands. How would such a ban be enforced, and do we have any examples of such people actually using a wand? I have always wondered if it was even necessary to do so given how resourceful the magical beings are: elves can already cast spells that circumvent wizards' magic and goblins are accomplished magical smiths. If anything, a wand seems like necessary crutch for most, if not all, wizards.
I have a question for you. In the second book we learn that the entrance to the Chamber of secrets was down a slide. Harry and co got out with the help of Fawkes the fenix. But how did Ron and Hermione, who visited the chamber during the battle of Hogwarts, get out? And how did Tom Riddle get in and out of there when he opened the chamber fifty years earlier? The same goes for the slide under Fluffy in the first book. How did the teachers and Dumbledore get in and out, and how did they get a whole mountain troll in there? Would he even fit in the slide? Was there another entrance or did everyone fly in and out on brooms (which is what I assume Ron and Hemione used to get out)?
I have a question? Could Voldemort have created a horcrux out of the Elder Wand? If he had, would he gain more powerful magic through his body with the wand?
is this video based on personal conjecture or a cannon source? If from a cannon source, please do share so I may read up on some of this cannon lore and learn more about this than what could be shared in an ~8 min video... :)
At least one of the explanations given in the book must be correct. Right?
1. He tried to keep the Wand from Voldemort and do the right thing for once. Motivation: remorse.
2. He tried to protect Dumbledore's tomb from being desecrated by Voldemort. Motivation: loyalty to Dumbledore.
JKR commented that he did show a small bit of remorse in the end.
To be honest, he may have not had feelings for Dumbledore, and just led him along, lying to him about any feelings. That's what a psychopath would do. They use people, and he did use Albus in helping him research the Hallows. It wasn't long, after he fled England, that he found the wand and stole it.
@@craxd1 JKR said Grindelwald was a *sociopath,* that's different. Basically, a psychopath has no emotions, he carefully plans his crimes and executes them in cold blood. A sociopath is impulsive, he commits crimes when he loses control of his emotions and can feel remorse afterwards. I think this description fits Grindelwald rather well.
There were rumours that Gregorovitch had the Elder Wand, so Grindelwald could've found it on his own. In any case, Dumbledore did much *more* than help him locate the wand. He played a role in shaping Grindelwald's ideology, and I think Dumbledore's initial support gave him the confidence to proceed with his plan.
Whether Grindelwald truly loved him or not, he enjoyed having him around as a talented and powerful companion. I had the impression he wanted it to be a long-term partnership.
Love. Grindlewald loved Dumbledore but lusted for power and only became remorseful when he lost both.
@@Snidget-76 Hum... I don't think psychologists around the world agree with you definition... Sometimes psycopaths lose control too. And they fell a resemblance of remorse after. I believe that Grindewald lied to Voldemort because he is a compulsive liar and manipulator. He simple didn't wanto the rise of someone bigger than him...
The two reasons you mention are not mutually exclusive. I like to think it’s both.
I don't think Grindelmwald lied to Voldemort. I think he was telling the truth. He never had the true allegiance of the wand because he did not win it in combat. He stole it. The wand only changes it's allegiance to whomever wins combat with the person in possession of the wand. Dumbledore won the allegiance of the wand by winning it in combat with Grindelwald. But Grindelwald never won the allegiance of the wand to begin with, so he was never the rightful owner of the wand, and therefore, even though he had been in possession of it, he didn't really possess the wand. It's like someone steals your car. Do they own it because they stole it, or does it still rightfully belong to you? They may be in possession of your stolen car, but that doesn't make it theirs. Obviously, the previous owner of the wand died, and could no longer possess the wand, so the wand changed ownership with the next person to win combat with the person in possession of the wand, and at the time of Dumbledore's defeat of Grindelwald, and the previous owner had apparently already died, Dumbledore became the wand's target of allegiance.
@lindajonesartist you bring up a fact I'd certainly forgotten, Gellert stole the wand. It made perfect sense. However that's not the full story.Albus did win the allegiance of the wand because Gellert cast "he stunning spell Gellert cast on Gregorovitch was enough to make him the new Elder Wand owner" I got that information from screenrant
If the allegiance of the wand belonged to someone else it wouldn’t have transferred to Dumbledore upon Grindelwald’s defeat, such as when Voldemort killed Snape.
The same issue with Harry , I think , he did not win over Draco he only disarmed him.
Easier said than done, because if albus won it, then the wand's power would never be 'broken' or lost as Dumbledore and Harry intent to do, because if someone stole it when they die, it would be the same cycle all over... if someone stole it & then defeats the thief it would start again... 🤔
@@piotrdworowy183 Draco allegedly won it by disarming Dumbledore. Why did i write stun? 😢
This scene was one of the worst departures from the book. Rather than having Grindelwald lie to and mock Voldemort, then be tortured and murdered by him. Instead they have him tell the truth without coercion and be left alive.
I understand that the writers of the final Harry Potter films tried to leave out as much as possible of the Dumbledore backstory as they could because of time constraints. But this was a pivotal moment for a character that would go on to greater prominence in the future movies.
It may just be me, but that change really ticked me off.
I feel the same way. That was Grindelwald's redemption scene. But since he never stood up to Voldemort and even seemed to cooperate with him *in the movies,* does this mean there were also never supposed to be any signs of a possible redemption for Grindelwald in *FB?* Since in the movie canon, it never happened?
He said, 'It was never mine, you must know this, it will never be yours...'. Or something. He meant he never mastered it, he stole it and if Voldy took it from Dumbledore's tomb he wouldn't have won it either, so it wouldn't truly be his. Grindelwald attained a wisdom Voldemort never did.
Then it means the only way for Voldemort to becoming the True Master... is for someone else to take it FIRST (who will not become the Elder Wand Master), and THEN defeat them in a fair duel.
-> This is the tricky part: The Elder Wand will be as deadly as usual regardless who is using it [so Voldemort may *not be able* to _"win"_ against someone wielding it]; but because also Voldemort has active horcruxes (meaning he can *not be defeated* in a true sense), it means any duel involving him can *never be fair* [until he is mortal again].
I like to think that since Dumbledore was indeed the "Last Master" (undefeated); by choosing to stay at the "King Cross Station" of the Afterlife´s Antechamber (waiting for Harry), he still had some connection/influence over the Elder Wand [explaining why it actively "resisted" against Lord Voldemort´s magic]; but after he fulfilled his "Last Mission" he departed to the Great Beyond (meaning he would not intervene on the Harry vs Voldemort final duel, making it "fair" once Nagini was destroyed by The True Chosen One [Neville]).
I believe that it was out of his love for Dumbledore. He lied to protect the only person who ever loved him.
100% Grindlewald loved Dumbledore but lusted for power and it was only when he lost both that he realized what he really lost and became remorseful.
_"¿Porque no los dos?"_
-> Lust & Love
Something I suspect is that Grindewald foresaw the coming of Voldemort, and that his grand plan was to try to reign in the wizarding world to try and stop or mitigate his coming. Or something to that effect
Johnny Depp was a much better Grindelwald. No question about it.
Grindelwald in the book says he had been expecting Voldemort to come for a long time. Isn’t Grindelwald a seer? He probably foresaw the moment and knew he would die either way, that’s why he demands Voldemort to kill him repeatedly (before he gives up the lie)
You still have it completely wrong... The original owner of the Elder Wand was Death. It never performed to it's full potential for anyone who merely possessed it, as Death was still the original owner. Death gave the wand to Ignotus. The wand chooses the wizard, not the other way around. Every time the wand changed hands, it was merely going from one wizard to another without ever denying it's allegiance to Death. When Harry died in the forest and then returned from purgatory, Harry had at that point became the second true owner of the Elder Wand. Harry had defeated Death and the wand became Harry's. This is why Tom Riddle was unable to defeat Harry as the wand recognized Harry as the true owner.
The Hallows I do believe were intended to have been made by the brothers, they were simply talented and ingenious. The story is just that, a story inspired by the brothers' astonishing creations. Two of the artifacts are closely related to death, the stone obviously, and the wand being elder wood (a tree often associated with death and traditionally planted in graveyards) and thestral tail hair (as we know, a winged horse invisible to all who haven't witnessed death). Come to think of it I'm wondering if thestral hair (possibly along with the more usual demiguise hair) might have been used in creating the cloak, keeping the theme of death connection and possibly explaining its durability over regular invisibility cloaks?
@@SF64Thestral hair? Very clever idea.
I like to think his imprisonment caused him to have remorse and lying to Voldemort was a way to try to make up for his past deeds.
How do we know he was lying? Having the Elder wand in your possession does not necessarily mean that you are its master.
But then he would still know that Dumbledore had it. No matter how you look at it he was lying.
Problem being if Grindewald was never the master of the Elder Wand, it couldn't pass from him to Dumbledore.
There's no positive information stating that Grindelwald was against Mugglebones. Thereby protecting the wizarding world from Voldemort he was allowing the world to thrive in the magical sense because he knew how the cycle magic was through the bloodlines. And if Voldemort had achieved his goal the world would've been lost in terms of the magical sense.
as long as they had magic, they were wizards, out from how Grindelwald operated.
and if they were wizards, he could potentially use them for his own agenda
@@MrEagorath Wizards are valuable on their own. Even to Grindelwald, not everything is a means to an end :)
The betterment of Wizardkind, the way he sees it, is his true agenda.
@@Snidget-76 true, but.. everyone could be used in his agenda as well.
Atleast the movie version of him, portrayed that perfectly well, that..
Initially a "good thought" but when pressed just a little to far, he was willing kill his own subordinate (that he tried to trick into killing the one thing he always wanted), tried to sway Dumbledore through fear ( "Who will love you now" ) and how he went from "no longer in the shadow" to "we are superior to them" and tossing crucio out like it was gifts on Kowalski :p
@@MrEagorath Grindelwald is one of my favourite characters, and I am disappointed they made him so one-dimensional in FB3. He wasn't so cartoonishly evil in the books and the first 2 FB films. It feels OOC to me. I think WB made him more like Voldemort because they thought HP fans would like it. They thought a simple good vs evil story was what most people wanted to see. So the film would make more money.
The screenplay was also rewritten to wrap up the plot. I am sure that in the original version of FB3, Grindelwald did not torture Jacob, did not try to kill Credence, and their duel with Dumbledore did not happen. I don't consider FB3 canon.
@@Snidget-76 I agree, he went off the hinges quite a lot and it made it seem like his "complex nature, beliefs and characteristics" was just a fasade harboring just "I wanna be THE man and muggles must submit"
It seems more likely that you are correct in that assessment and with the "established lore" surrounding this wouldn't be retconned.. may it have been connected with trying to differentiate the actors playing the same character due to the termoil the former one was in?
I wonder if your the owner of the elder wand you k ow when you lose it AND its path. He seemed to know Voldemort was too late. And Harry had an extra “magical” sense after he became the master of death, he knew subconsciously to go for horcuxes not hallows. I think having all three gave him an extra bit of power over Voldi.
I like the idea that Grindelwald had prevented Voldemort from having the power of the Elder Wand.
Here's a question for you: did _anyone_ ever master it? Antioch killed an enemy then bragged about the wand. But the jealous man came while Antioch was asleep and stole it and slit Antioch's throat. Is that winning the wand's allegiance? Does anyone ever own Death's own wand?
my theory is that Grindewald did not lie because the elderwand was never truely his because he stole it and the wand had no alligens to him. I think that could be a possible explanation to how Dombledore also was able to defeat Grindewald, Dombledore may hve realised how the wand change alligens and gained it by defiding Gregorwitz and become the wands true master.
one thing for sure, depp should have played grindelwald
Grindelwald wanted to die so he lied in order to effectuate the wish.
The elder wand doesn't seem to have lived up to its reputation. It doesn't appear to have been special and definitely didn't make its "master" invincible.
Well the Elder Wand's weakness is its power is based on the hubris that magic is always the best solution, nothing about it stops you from defeating the master of the Elder Wand another way.
Amazing video,fantastic job.
How could the wand be loyal to Grindelwald when he stole it?
He didn't win it.
It's possible Grindelwald was telling the truth. He stole the wand, he didn't over power the owner. He kept and used the wand, but it was never really his. When Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, Dumbledore overpowered Grindelwald and the wand set it's allegiance to Dumbledore. It's possible that at some point prior to that Dumbledore had over powered Gregorovitch (where Gregorovitch was using a different wand). This is very much like Voldemort not owning the wand, but still using it. Theft does not make one the owner.
He meant it was never his because he stole it instead of winning it, and thus he never had the wand's allegiance. He wasn't lying,, he was taunting him with the truth.
The wand's chooses the wizard and in this case the wand chooses who wins against the one currently in possession of it. So if its stolen the wand would do its job in a form of meh attitude. And i think not lying was the best way to deal with Voldemort, since he was already blinded by power and whatever he desires he won't recognise truth even if its in his face. And in this way Grindelwald show Dumbledore perhaps the love he could show in his position knowing even if Voldemort try to get it by stealing it will never work for him.
The wand chooses the wizard. The Elder Wand never got a chance to choose Grindelwald: he stole it. You can _never_ own something once you have stolen it. There is also a question whether Grigorevitch ever truly owned the Elder Wand: Grigorevitch is a dark wizard, but really doesn't seem dark enough to be the natural owner of the Elder Wand. Perhaps it is because the Elder Wand had a long period of not really belonging to anyone (Grigorevitch then Grindelwald) that the perception arose that it had always been a mythical artefact.
I have long believed the Grindlewald likely never saw himself as a Dark Lord. His goal was the protection of the wizarding world from Muggles, and he used the damage to Dumbledore's sister to influence the opinions of a power-hungry Dumbledore in his direction. He was more or less the equivalent of a Malcom X to many in the wizarding world.
From this perspective, he sees in Voldemort not an ally but a new threat. Where Grindlewald saw Muggles as a threat to both themselves and wizards and slavery as the means to preserve both peoples, he recognized that Voldemort cared nothing for Muggle or Wizardkind. Worse, Voldemort cared nothing for the various magical creatures and non-wizard people that he trode across to gain his desire.
Grindlewald saw in himself a protector and preserver. Voldemort was antithetical to his ideals, and for this reason, Grindlewald would never assist Voldemort in his second rise to power.
He did not return it to Dumblydor, He broke it and threw it off the bridge after the battle where he killed Voldemort.
It is interesting to see how Tom had such little knowledge about the elder wand and it's unique rules, and that makes me wonder, what can possibly be the reason to that? I mean, surely he could learn anything he would've liked
because Tom was an arrogant and selfinflated person.
He wanted the biggest and the baddest, everything restrictive and not "the best" was not good enough or shouldn't matter.
Voldie wouldn't submit himself to the rules of others, his rule was what mattered and how he could express his rule on others.
He only got the info he saw neccessary
I have been wondering about what happened in the years after secrets of dumbeldore since Grindelwald escaped🤔🤔
Well I think it's gonna stay a mystery since I don't think we're getting another movie.
I know even with all the drama behind the scenes I still wanted to see how it would truly end
@@nestaron4064january 2024, it says it is on hold but not officially cancelled. fingers crossed they do complete the series
@@nestaron4064 we might, after they manage to turn out some profits from other places in the series
So, in the story of Harry Potter, love is supposed to be the most powerful magic of all, but I wonder if someone was truly the master of the elder wand, and then tried to use Avada Kadavra on someone who is using a love protection what would happen because the elder wand is supposed to be unbeatable But also love is supposed to be the most powerful so it would be an unstoppable force colliding with an immovable object type of situation 🤔
In the book, Grindelwald lies to Voldemort to protect his ex-friend and slash the ex-lover which costs him his life in prison.
In the film, Grindelwald tells Voldemort everything not to protect his ex-friend slash ex-lover from death which he is grateful for his final hours of life on earth.
sure, Grindelwald wasn't a maniac, he had understanding of the parties that didn't support him.. he didn't care particularly much about them, but he could understand their logic.
Grindelwald was a very proud person, quite so to the level of being arrogant.
Him then bowing down to a whelpling that couldn't spread his reign past the UK and that had a severely different ideology than him in regards to people and magic, would be a defeat of character and ideology.
I think wholeheartedly, this had very little to do with the greater good of the magical world or his past with Albus. this was his pride
Do you truly believe Grindelwald lied to Credence about his *identity* and that he was the only one who could kill Albus Dumbledore? I'm certain it is the *real* reason he wanted to recruit him. FB3 obviously *retconned* Credence's intended storyline. They made him Albus' nephew rather than brother because most fans seemed to hate it. And they drastically *reduced his importance* because of the situation with Ezra Miller and as a part of the *rewrite to conclude the story with the 3rd film.*
Is there any indication that he was lying to Queenie in FB2? There is no *reason* for Grindelwald to be against marriages with muggles. I don't remember him telling Queenie he wanted to protect muggles, but I believe in his world *wizards* would be able to marry whomever they want. It seems genuinely important to him that *wizards are not forced to hide who they are and what they want* in any way. Queenie read his mind and saw that, but she didn't *understand* that muggles, in general, would be considered *second-class citizens.* It would be another Snape-Lily situation. She wanted to have him so much she didn't care about the cost. That Queenie can marry Jacob in America all of a sudden is a *clear sign of another retcon.*
And come on! What makes you think Grindelwald ever lied to Dumbledore?
JKR once said he was a liar when talking about a *specific* scene, and everyone now considers it his *defining* trait. That WB even used it to justify their retcons pisses me off. The worst part is fans might start considering it canon now.
*WB are the real liars here.*
What I dont get and perhaps I have to read the books again is that when Grindelwald lied to Voldemort that should have put the trail to a dead end. However Voldemort still openend the grave and got the want. Was that a lucky gues or did Grindlewalt failed to mislead him?
Why didn't Dumbledore repair Ron's wand
cause it wasn't Ron's wand, it was a hand me down from Charlie
Because it was a hand me down as stated above and that would have stopped him from getting his own wand - why would you want to repair a used, and already made clear shoddy wand (in the first book its stated you can practically see the unicorn hair poking through the very end), and interrupt a kid who hated getting hand me downs from getting a new wand all of his own that chooses him?
I think he was still in love with Dumbledore and didn't know he was dead and was trying to protect him
Awesome video.
He told the truth... he had the wand but it's allegiance was not to him... the wand was never truly his
I think it's pretty simple. Grindelwald was still in love with Dumbledore. He knew Dumbledore had the Elder Wand, so he lied to Voldemort to try to protect him.
L O V E
He still loved Dumbledore and or because of that didn't also wanted to be killed
Or (not remembering if he was killed ...) didn't want to live anymore.
So being disobedient he could once again see Dumbledore - in the afterlife.
Grindlewand didn't lie. He believed that it must have not truly been the Elder Wand since he wasn't invincible with it and still lost.
This is hilarious. The truth is... the wand chooses the wizard. Simple as that.
I… like this!
In the movie he told him but in the book he didn’t and slightly redeemed himself
Ah, the legendary boom stick
I actually think it's all of the above. He knew he could lie, so he did
I think it was because Grindelwald realized how dangerous Voldemort was to the wizarding world, so he refused to reveal the location of the elder wand in order to deny Voldemort more power...
I thought it was next to impossible to lie to Voldemort. He could always sense when someone was being deceptive to him. ( one of the few exceptions being Snape)
The Grindelwald was powerful as well, one of the most convincing that they try to cut out his tongue when he was in prison so he must have a sort of silver tongue that people believe him
Would you say Grindelwald used occlumency effectively against voldemort to lie about the elder wand?
lol have you not seen miracle workers? He’s golden. Swiss army man is classic. This hate is a bit extreme, the dude is a treasure.
And Tom was part muggle & so didn’t want a muggle
I truly believe that your last theory is the true reason why. Because most megalomaniacs are selfish, and he didn’t want Voldemort to get that power.
Can you just hand over the wand? Since it’s fickle.
All Grindel had to say was I’ve been an Azkaban for the last 50 years why the hell would you think I know where the damn elder wand was?
He wasn't in Azkaban. He was in his fortress turned into a prison
Grindelwald didn't disarm gregorovich so he didn't own it
There may very well be MULTIPLE reasons why Grindelwald lied to Voldemort.
I think it's funny as hell that one Dumbledore was much younger man he actually was an evil wizard! I even believed that even at the point of his death he was secretly still an evil wizard. That's one of the reasons why he lived to be so old in the first place. It wasn't because his friend Nicholas Flamel was giving him the elixir of life. It's because he was using dark magic to prolong his natural demise.
Sure, former "friend" of Dumbledore...
why couldnt Queenie see throught Grindelwalds lies
Was the wand overrated?
I mean hard to say its overrated when it achieve feats otherwise thought impossible. What powers and other capabilities it had is up to debate and I myself wouldn't feel the power of it so much as id like to see the full range it was able to reach.
The wand chooses the wizard.
I feel like he lied because he did bad things for what he thought of as the greater good and Voldemort did evil things in the pursuit of power.
Dumbledore beating Grindelwald with the elder wand is dumb unless Grindelwald gave up. All I’m saying.
i hope they finish the fantastic beast series
It's not finished?
@@jamesrussell2936there is suppose to be 5. after 3, they realised its not making as much money as they had hoped. months ago they quoted as saying the rest of the movies were cancelled ... but now its up in the air whether they finish the series or not
@@msrainbowbrite that stinks. even though I know hollywood/etc is greedy, considering the amount of money those movies must cost if they don't make bank then I can see their point
You will be waiting longer than a Star Wars fan did for The Phantom Menace. And you will probably be just as disappointed.
@@jamesrussell2936 Maybe if Hollywood made movies that their larger audience wants, then they won't lose money. They're currently standing to lose a LOT with the new The Crow remake. They've absolutely shat on the comics, the original film, and the goths who love it. They don't listen. They're just like, "Here's my crappy fanfic of something iconic, please love it. 🥴"
Actually, on any day of the week, any or all of the answers presented here could be true; People are that complex, I think.
I think he did it just to mock voldemor!!! He did respect ir fear him
I think he just hated Voldemort. After all, Voldemort is a wizard killer.
Grindelwald lied to Voldemort, because he knew he was a punk....not worth of being told the truth.
I don't like the book here - he has been rotting in prison for so long and fought a duel to try and kill Dumbledore - I'm sorry but a random crush isn't going to impact people that much. In the book I think he lied to simply snub Voldemort.
In the movie, which I like the scene better, I think there's a far more telling point on how Voldemort doesn't even seem angry at Grindelwald, never mind how he doesn't kill him. Voldemort kills on a whim. He respected, to the only point he could, Grindelwald and what he stood for.
Weren't Grindewald and Dumbledore lovers at one point?
he didnt lie it was with dumbledore
He may just like to mislead poeple
Remorse
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