City of Stirling Trackless Tram Public Trial
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2023
- In the morning on Sunday the 26th of November 2023, the City of Stirling held its first public trial of its new "trackless tram" vehicle, showcasing it to the public and seeking their feedback. In this video we attend the event and ride the tram up and down the carpark at the council building, also getting several exterior shots of it there as it follows its designated guidelines (on the real road it will follow a magnetic track). I also got interviewed by 7 News since all the major media was there to see this new type of transport vehicle in action! It was really cool to experience a tram-like vehicle in Perth and I hope that it can soon receive some state funding so it can be interested with the rest of our transport network and made good use of, on its strategic high patronage route to Scarborough Beach!
Filmed on: 26/11/2023.
A trackless tram with a steering wheel is acutally called a bus ;)
It's a bendy-bus in disguise.
a bendy bus with all the limitations of a trolley bus. it can travel only along very wide streets with long open curves. probably cant handle corners.
With a speed of 30kmph
I still am not sold on the idea of these, they just seem like slower yet longer busses and after seeing your video the seats look really bad I hope they get some cushioning in there.
The exterior touches are the least of the concerns. They can easily change that.
@@thevannmann you mean "interior" of course.
They are guided buses but with infrared guiding system unlike the old rail guiding system like guided bus in Brisbane
@@rick_terscale1111 Yes, it was 5 am when I wrote the last comment. >_>
@@leo1933they are NOT trams.
Way to go! Nice Trackless Tram system.
What a crazy looking bus! I hope it didn't cost too much!
Half bus half tram
@@Gaminggunzellernot tram.
@@xr6lad I said half tram half bus if you read properly
Combo model should I say.
Actually, in this video, one can already appreciate the very issue of this system: the grooves on the road surface from the constant movement of the vehicle's tires can be clearly seen. This will ultimately generate high costs for resurfacing that might even match the ones of building an actual tram.
This is one of the reasons why a similar system was recently scrapped in Nancy...
The fact it's already creating grooves in the road just means this will probably end up more expensive overtime compared to a tram
That’s because these trackless trams are quite heavy. In China, the roads that are “meant” for trackless trams have a different type of asphalt that can withstand grooves.
@@greekchad , so all the roads need rebuilding. no thanks.
Good to see some new ideas being tried. I think this would go better as a light rail line or articulated Trolleybus though.
Google car Alexa no driver same as car driver is there to look after if anything gose wrong.
Thanks! Great documentation! 🙂
Just so there is no confusion, this 'trackless tram' is called "a bus" in the Northern Hemisphere.
no sane person in either hemisphere would call it a trackless "tram". it's a bus. a fancy bus with nicer suspension and two articulations, sure, but it's still a bus
A bus that can serve the same function as a tram without the massive investment into tracks.
@@zachb1706 With less capacity and shoddier ride quality.
@@thevannmann not really that much less capacity. Melbourne Trams can only fit an extra 50 people on, and chances are you couldn’t install Trams as big as those down the thin Scarborough Beach Rd.
I doubt capacity will be an issue, even at peak.
You’re also ignoring the benefits. A trackless tram can go around disruptions on the road, and can be implemented with a much lower cost and less disruption to the local area.
@@zachb1706 There's already a vehicle that can go around disruptions on the road
It's called a bus
Thanks for the talk and picture
These are are really cool on the inside and the seats are not so bad
It's already rutting the roads in a trial. Imagine the mess it would make in service. You'd have to concrete the route, which makes the no disruption claim an absolute lie
They can probably make it not drive on the same line all the time, or at least they will do that if rutting becomes a problem
@@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042 it's not the line as much as the weight. You'll get the same rutting but it will be wider and build up slower
I mean Scarb beach Rd is horrible to drive on and is already rutted so it’s due for re surfacing, though I bet the weight won’t matter compared to trucks and busses already in this route
@@robertbruce2182 weight and road damage is near enough to an exponential relationship. So say TTs are a small increase in weight from normal buses and trucks, there most likely will be serious deterioration
@@leo1933 Google fourth power law
I missed it and I live in Stirling 😭
Wonderful video
I love the look and colour. It sounds peaceful to ride on.
Hey Mark, I didn't realise you were on board at the same time as me!
An very cool bus
I thought I was gonna miss the ride with Aiden baker but we managed to be lucky to get last one
I will say this tram is nice, but it actually looks more like an articulated bus, but a bit longer and can be driven at both ends. Half bus and half tram if that makes sense.
@leo1933 Dude, I already know what it is, I'm just saying it looks nice, but it just looks like an articulated bus but longer and can be driven at both ends? I did not say that it was an actual bus if you actually read my comment properly. I'm not dumb you know, and I wasn't born yesterday either, so you don't have to tell me twice anyway to be more specific it looks half bus half tram.
It’s a trolleybus
@@leo1933it’s a bus. I take it your never seen articulated buses over seas?
@@leo1933even its Wikipedia page says it is a guided bi-articulated bus.
@@ChrisNF trolleybuses use overhead wires. this is a battery electric bus.
Nice BUS you got there!
IT'S A BUS
Omg did u say trackless trams mark thats so cool 😎 cool 😎
if they’re going to bring in new transport they need to make it here in australia. too many times they’ve bought trams and trains from places like europe and they’ve been a total failure because other countries just don’t know how to build it to accomodate to australia’s economic, social and literal climate and infrastructure. for instance the obvious downsides that could have been avoided are the grooves in the road, the uncomfortable seats and accessibility.. they need to put more effort into getting feedback from the people who are actually going to use it. i appreciate this is a trial, but it’s a 7 million dollar trial which could have been spent in better ways.
Hi mark I like your speech on seven news today
They only included one sentence? I actually said way more but it wasn't included.
@@TransportofPerth It's always the way with news media. They edit out all the good stuff and just leave a one liner.
This technology could work in cities with perfectly straight roads like Dubai but not elsewhere.
This would go well in small cities which can’t afford real but more expensive trams and light rail systems
Small cities don't need an expensive articulated bus when there are literally better options.
Maintenance will be minimal as its using road
Also electric
Serving will likely be easier
Lol Perth made a bus good job
me thinking in 100 years there will be school trackless trams
Seriously?? If it's not on a track, it's not a tram.
May as well call it a wingless plane.
I'm calling it Bus-plus.
I really like the concept. Wish we had this stuff down at where we live lol.
A tram runs on tracks. This is a long, double-articulated bus.
Interesting vehicle. Do these trackless trams run on battery and if so, how do they keep their energy? It will certainly be good for handling crowds. I think having dedicated tracks may be better, for preventing road damage, but time will tell with that I suppose.
Yes they run on battery gaining energy at stations where there are charging points and from regenerative braking.
@TransportofPerth, it's a bus.
Wait until that road surface deteriorates, it will be as uncomfortable as a bus and you’d wish it was on rails. Yes, rail is more expensive to build but far cheaper to maintain. Rail provides certainty of route (good for the community and local business) and superior ride quality in the long term. Australia seems to be a dumping ground for transport tech, trialled, tested and abandoned overseas.
still better than a bus though.
it's already wearing divots into the road apparently
How long do the rides take from the beginning to the end?
On this day with the trial it was only about 4 minutes.
What's the actual argument for these other than novelty?
Research shows that trackless trams are a more popular transport choice to buses which is easy to understand.
They operate quietly, smoothly and efficiently, utilising a train chassis as opposed to a bus chassis.
It replaces the noise and emissions of buses with electric traction from batteries recharged at stations in 30 seconds. It has all the speed (70 kph), capacity and ride quality of light rail with its autonomous optical guidance system, train-like bogies with double axles and special hydraulics and tyres. It can slide into the station with millimetre accuracy and enable smooth disability access.
I think calling it a novelty form of transport is underselling it. It can quickly board and move a much larger number of people than a bus can. There is also scope to take your e-scooter/bike on there which you can't do on a bus. With a reliable system in place with good frequency (something Perth does quite well when it comes to trains) and infrastructure of stations in place it would be an attractive form of public transport imo.
@@haydencooper_ so wading through all that, it's quieter and smoother at the cost of flexibility of route?
I'm not sure buses have particular issues with disabled access or boarding people quickly, though I could be wrong. I'm also not convinced that WA public transport networks are running at full load necessitating longer (= more impact on car traffic) vehicles with more capacity.
The bike / scooter comment is interesting. Is everyone allowed to bring one at all times? How does that impact capacity?
I'm not a hater, just trying to understand the rationale beyond what again in your comment spends more time talking about the technology than the actual problem it's trying to solve.
Nice bus. How will it perform on an actual road, and not a smooth tarmac carpark at 15km/hr? Why are there ALREADY tyre marks on the carpark? How quickly will it chop out its tyres? When will these end up in the bin? How long will the battery packs last?
Trackless tram, cousin of the flightless plane and the engineless car (also known as a couch)
Somehow if inside floor level can be lift up there may be more room where the wheels are
Not sure how can be done, to keep height and more room, both;
I know current trams are same, so this is same issue with all large vehicles
What a great idea. Perth needs to introduce these throughout the urban area. Links from Fremantle to stations on the Mandurah line would be very convenient.
1:08 oh hey that’s me with me mobile haha (yes I know I do have a bald spot)
Isn’t Sydney or Melbourne current trialing a trackless tram?
Melbourne had plans for one, but it never went through. Sydney hasn't proposed a trackless tram at all as far as I know
@@TheLostProbe They are still talking about getting a trackless tram from Monash Uni to Rowville. It will cost about half that of a coventional tram.
@@DavidWilliams7037A and it'll also cost more to maintain and operate than a regular tram
There was a brief idea to turn Parramatta Light Rail stage 2 into a trackless vehicle, but they decided against it. It will be built as light rail
Will you be adding to the trackless tram to the intro as that’s a new transport system?
I guess so, I'm due to make a new intro soon anyway considering I have been using this same general one for so long now. I should have done that for this video!
@@TransportofPerth considering the recent Federal infrastructure cuts, if the Sunshine Coast rail line is axed, the Qld government have announced that they may build a trackless tram system
@@TransportofPerth oh and the Brisbane ones are in fact actually trackless trams according to the manufacturer and Brisbane council, but the only reason why they were designed with some bus-like features was so they could easilly train drivers as well as use the vehicles on other non-metro routes with high demand
It’s a bi-articulated, low-platform electric bus.
Which is honestly still better than nothing.
I'm having an argument (friendly banta) about why the tractless tram is not a bus. can anyone help with the specs as to why it's more like a tram?
Many thanks.
It needs a smooth road which means the tyres are recessed. A smoother ride. A bus has bigger wheels which can run on any terrain and is a bumpier ride with sharp turns. I’m not sure what guides it, the white line? The entire route would be stored, probably a local radio system that acts like a GPS.
If it’s a good idea, I can hope a service can be introduced in my neighbourhood, laying tram tracks and overhead wiring would be unthinkable.
There litterly a Brisbane metro with 2 cabs
A trackless tram is called a BUS people.
Which US city will be the first to impliment the Trackless Tram?
Transportation Psychology suggests that passengers have way more faith in public transport if a tram system exists with visible tracks.
Don't drive, don't take a bus,
Just walk is better safest
It is peaceful and smooth as well
Is it wheelchair accessible?
Go away
Yes it is
Yes
@@TransportofPerth Brisbanes metro one is way better.
It does require a platform, but yes it is
the translohr system is better also for loading other electric bus and troleybusses so you can drive with lot,s of busses the same trajecht in the citycentra.
I hope they make these mainstream I hate perth buses 😂
how filthy would you be if you lived in CoS and this is what they were spending your rates on
Me too
Alstom our Caf ?😊
I've sold "trackless trams" to Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook
A trackless tram is called a bus everywhere else, nice design, but uts a bus
The Chinese trolley bus is an expensive gimmick.
They used diesel generators to charge the batteries haha that’s great for the environment.
At least Perth buses and trains are Australian built, we should be proud of that.
This bi articulated bus would be great for BRT ( bus rapid transit ) with bus lanes but seriously This is not a tram. Greetings from Melbourne
The trains are running from early morning to night. I’m founding that buses and probably trackless trams won’t run that late….
This will be good if we get better vehicles
Like cushioned seats and sings that are in proper English
I reckon the final vehicle will be fitted with Transperth logo and their own design
It is currently not funded by the state government but if it ever will be then yes they would do that.
melbourne now wants it 💀💀💀
Is it still there?
Nope, it went back to China for now.
It seemed a bit skinny. Also going very slow. On Scab Beach Road would it be going 60-70kph.
Is that a bus or tram?
Basically a hybrid of them.
So this wont be implemented into the Transperth network? That doesn't seem like a good plan for sustained patronage if it's an extra cost? You want people using it after being on a train or bus and tagging on to not be charged further.
Otherwise wont people just catch a bus to go along Scarborough Bch Rd as part of their Transperth journey? likely not be charged as their fare would be capped or very close to it.
Exactly, which is why it will completely fail if the state government doesn't fund it to integrate it together.
There was testing before the trial
I know but this was the first time the public was allowed on it.
Yes I know
I think if I was the driver, and only had a Power/Brake Controller, I'd prefer the safety of physical rails to prevent the thing from going on an adventure. Lord knows no gov in Australia maintains their road markings properly, this thing will end up in a tree within 6 months because the markings get rubbed off
On the real road it won't follow road markings, but rather magnetic strips which provide attraction between the tram and the road, which are impossible to be rubbed off.
It's got steering wheels in the cab. The driver would be able to take over if need be.
Podríamos decirle trans via. un autobus que se siente tranvia
Look it’s a less flexible yet more expensive bus 😂
Wow, imagine getting an exclusive visit before this date.. that’ll be so cool!
I'm very much into Public Transportation and how to improve it in Perth and how to minimize traffic congestion as much as possible.
Some of the biggest scenarios of what would could make a big advantage or disadvantage in this project, from my personal opinion is:
1.Will it have it's own dedicated lane?
2.Will it have Priorities over everyday traffic?
3. How often will it run?
4.How long will it take from start to finish (Time)?
5. What interaction will it have with other forms of Public transport?
etc.
These question above is not for criticizing this new project at all, I absolutely love how they coming up with new idea's of different public transport systems, for me I would 100% love for Perth to be a Awesome place of diverse, effective, reliable and efficient place of getting around and having a interconnected way on travelling via public transport and also (Bike paths).
I want Perth to become a hub, decreasing in traffic congestion that's not needed and integrate systems of high efficiency. Over the past years, I'm pleased that Perth has been progressing in public transport infrastructure, ie - (Railway Airport Link) and others. Also looking forward in the years to come on what else there is to come.
On another note, I do recommend the TH-cam channel (Not Just Bikes) It's a Awesome channel explaining Public transport systems
I also watch others, though it's more I try and find similar channels and videos to broaden my view further
Think it just a long bus that looks like a tram.
Its a 15 minute city bus. Expensive one at that.
O que é isso é um ART Autonomus Rapid Transit ? um vlt sem trilhos? eu aqui da Vila Remo São Paulo one district of São Paulo city 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
What’s the point of having no track cause now it’s not even a tram it’s a bus
There is no such thing as a "trackless tram" - this is a bus.
Bi-articulated bus like this exist from the late 80 and in my city they are used in some line for 10 years and it's still a bus, just much more expensive for no real reason (which is why here they decided to stick to regular and articulated buses).
Half bus half tram
@@Gaminggunzeller Tram, by definition, is a type of rail transit.
"Trackless tram" is a marketing name so a city can say they built a tram without the required investment and benefits.
I don't know the city of Stirling, apart from a bit of googling I did. It's pretty big for the number of inhabitants (for someone from Spain, at least, as cities here are usually much denser) but if the city thinks it needs a type of BRT line they can do a great one with a "regular" electric bus, it will be as efficient and cheaper while providing the same level of service or even a better one, as they'll be able to have more buses with higher frequency.
In my city of Barcelona the bus network was redesigned about 10 years ago by creating a network of horisontal and vertical lines crossing the city with easy changing points between them. Some consider it as a BRT but it's just regular buses, with regular stops and a painted bus lane in most places and it's great. Barcelona is a big city (the same size as the city of Stirling but with 1.6 million people a metro are of 5.5 million) so we have metro, trams, suburban/regional train and even 2 funiculars, near me I have two metro lines but since they introduced the new bus line network I prefer the bus.
Each of those buses is $3.3m (Australian, I assume). The same style bus as this "trackless tram" that Barcelona has is the Exqui.City24 by Van Hoff and the cost was ~2.5m AUS but they also have the regular articulated buses with the same look but even cheaper regular articulated buses will do the job. You build a tram for the advantages of rail transit, not for the way the cars look.
@AL5520 Buddy, I don't mean to come across this as rude, but I already know what a tram is, I'm just saying that this one is half bus and half tram if you actually read my comment properly. Make sense?
@@Gaminggunzeller I don't think you're rude and I did get your remark as kind of a joke but a lot of people don't get jokes, sarcasm and other hints which is why I prefer to stick to clear facts.My replay was less for you and more to others that see this and think it's an actual replacement for a tram and won't mind the city wasting money on a glorified expensive bus. If experts think the city needs a tram they should build a tram and if a bus is deemed sufficient (or they cannot afford more than a bus) they should build a good and frequent regular bus service and not waste money on gadgetbahn.
As I said, I'm from Barcelona and here (and in Spain in general) we built great high quality transit systems for a very low cost (relatively of course, a transit system is never cheap) and we do it also by standardizing things and using more basic and utilitarian construction. Metro stations in Barcelona, for example, are very basic, unlike some other places around the world, but I prefer this over extravagant and very expensive systems that end up providing worst service.
In no way is this a half tram of any sort.
It’s 100% a bus.
How is this powered?
batteries
Electric batteries which can be charged at stations from the power grid. Now how the power grid gets electricity is another story...
Your in the video they sent out (and I am to!)
I think a trackless tram system would good to replace perth's long bus runs but we need to build tunnels or bridges so the trams can run over or under intersection and keep as close as they can to the railway lines or run in-between the railway lines we have so we have a more connected public transport system
Would also like to see how it would go on hill i.e Greenmount
Its just a bendy bus
If I knew this would be so nice. The trackless tram looks so nice and futuristic
Edit: I know it’s a bus
Bus
This is a bus NOT a tram.
But? without tracks what makes it still a tram and not just a long ass bus?? Is it just because it still looks like a tram and not a bus?
Two cabs, doors on both sides which slide, low floor throughout, basically all the features you would expect of a tram just without the tracks.
its not a trackless tram its just a fancy bus
This is literally a bus
With higher capacity, 2 heads, better ride experience, narrower and better looking.
@@thevannmann it's still worse than a real tram
@@thevannmann the only benefit I would see is if it could work on both road and tram tracks. If not then why not just make better busses instead of this?
This is crazily stupid😢 What a giant mobile obstruction on the road😮
Penny wise...
That's a bus
Just make a tram network Perth! Geez you've got the money for it, stop messing around and start laying the tracks while the mineral prices are up.
When this proprietary gadgetbahn is inevitably orphaned and maintenance becomes impossible in 5-10 years, and while the road it runs on starts to resemble 2000 year old roman roads with wagon wheel grooves 20cm deep.
You'll be regretting not buying/assembling trams for a future proof standard gauge track.
I'm not a fan, I'd go for either an electric bus or a tram over this.
It's a bus.
Sound like electric, no ICE engine
Trucks pull deliver train, tram extremely heavy mining vehicles
Tram on metal track?!?
Trucks pull many tons of cars
Trucks pull many cart loads, double B trucks...
etc.
See say again has to lay a rail track.
Trucks can do same & more
So such vehicle is no less
A bus, an electric bus. How nice. Still if you want cheap public transport, buy a tram.
Cheap? Trams are insanely expensive. Sydney has paid $210 million per kilometre.
And then you have the downside that any distruption on the tram lane leads to the tram having nowhere to go
@@zachb1706 yes they are cheaper to operate than buses. They last longer, their tracks last longer and you need less drivers. I am not familiar with the project in Sydney, however, all major projects in Europe showed that the TCO of Trams is lower than those of BRT and bus systems on a per passenger basis. Furthermore, trams are way more attractive than buses. BRT projects in Europe saw a lesser increase in ridership than tram projects.
There is a comparison paper available from the tram project in Kiel Germany. However, it is in German.
@@reinerjung1613 we don’t live in Europe so I take those analyses with a grain of salt.
Our cities are much less dense, which means that you must build out more rail to serve the same number of passengers.
Also public construction projects are simply more expensive here for a multitude of reasons. But it means that it’s cheaper to just buy buses, or in this case long buses that looks like a tram, from China than to build out costly rail infrastructure.
And so on. Essentially the same reasons why a high speed rail network makes no sense in Australia when it works well in Europe
@@zachb1706 the key point is when you have enough people to use the tram than it will be favorable. And in some cities you have that density. However, it may be a better strategy to first take lanes from cars and run buses on these lanes exclusively. This will make bus journeys more reliable. And then later switch to trams when you can actually fill them.
BUS BUS BUS ITS A BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS
So... What's the problem?
The specs say that It has a dedicated lane, with priority at traffic lights making it more efficient than current public transport options - Is nobody looking at how this would 'work' on Scarborough Beach Road? ONE lane of traffic! - S B R is not just people going to work or the beach it is a significant commercial route for heavy vehicles, delivery trucks etc - where are you going to send the traffic? Will access to side streets be limited so traffic is not crossing over dedicated lane? - Which streets will they use for access? On the video the stops are Glendalough, Hutton Street, Ellen Stirling Boulevard, St Brigids Terrace, Grand Promenade, Westborough Street and then the Beach. - a fraction of what the current bus has - How will local people that rely on the bus be able to access these stops - we have an aging population ?
So it’s a bus that looks like a tram?
Somebody got paid to present this?
It’s literally just a bus.
It is just a bus ... build a tram perth
imagine breathing in all the micro-particles of rubber worn off the tyres. just like buses. and cars. the stuff floats in the air and gets washed into waterways to help male 2 headed fish. it would be good if trams replaced some bus routes. and give them priority at intersections,. gold coast does, melbourne doesnt. it is speed that gets people on to public transport.