If you ever come into a real survival situation, just sit down and start sharpening your knife. In less than 15 minutes someone will appear and tell you how to do it right in his opinion.
One other option for stropping a scandi grind without creating a convex edge is to use a hardwood strop. As a furniture-maker, this is what I do for my chisels between sharpening them with stones. All you have to do is cut a piece of hardwood so you have a very flat portion of end grain exposed and rub stropping compound into the open pores. You then have a flat, hard, durable surface charged with the fine stropping abrasive that will not convex your edge the way a leather strop will. It works incredibly well and saves me leaving the bench to sharpen on my stones. It also save wear on my nice stones and costs virtually nothing.
@Donny p. I was also a professional hand tool woodworker, reliant on ultra sharp planes and chiselsand I echo your advice. However, I would bet a fair amount of money that @Least 90% ofthe knife fetishists reading this thread Would not be able to plane a flat surface on the end grain of a piece of hardwood. That is why I recommend MDF -. It’s flat and it’s cheap.
@@MrNetnic I’m one of the dirty fetishists you speak of. Firstly, I hope you’re having a wonderful day being a worthy blade owner unlike us fetishists who get hard for sharpening blades we never use. Secondly, can you think of any way to obtain a small piece of mdf without having to purchase an entire board? I’m not a tool guy and always feel lost in the Home Depot unless I’m staring at a shiny knife edge attached to a tool I have no understanding of. Anyway, is there anything small that’s made of mdf i could purchase that I could strop my skandi grinds on. Because if I can’t achieve a hair shaving edge then I can’t get hard. And if I can’t get hard my wife gets angry. My marriage is on the line here. So, I’m begging you to once again impart your knowledge upon me and tell me how to acquire a small piece of mdf.
@@bradlarrison191 construction site scrap bins, also the hardware store will generally cut that plank down for you, if you ask nicely ofc. but is having some excess wood ever really a bad thing? your wife apparently thinks not haha
Mors Kochanski used a strop, Ray Mears applies a micro bevel, and furthermore, traditional Scandinavian knives were very high convex grinds. A zero grind is actually very delicate on the cutting edge, and can chip out easily.
Yup, also; Cody Lundin uses sandpaper, no stones (for more than 30 years now). On cardboard or something like that. A little convex is not bad but good. And what Kyle gets from customers, seems to be cases of completely focusing on the apex when stropping. Then you get the overly rounding effect. When keeping the whole bevel on the leather or sandpaper, it will work fine. No stones needed.
Some might argue that a scadi-vex is better than a true scandi, and it was used originally, the flat scandi grind is a relatively new thing, that only came about with modern machinery in the factories of the last century or so.
Scandi is delicate. I have no problem with the slightly convexed edge. Stays sharp longer. And I take the stone to the blade. It's so much more controllable to me.
They hold an edge somewhat longer. You don't need necessarily need a strop for any reason with any bevel. A strop is for honing, and polishing out the microserration as well as the steel itself, your edge will potentially last longer (if you didn't try to sharpen with a strop and make your edge atomically thin) and be prettier, not necessarily perform better. Convex is the best bevel for holding an edge, which means it is the best bevel period (but especially for bushcraft/survival)
@@SoftBreadSoft The reason our knifes have flat bevels is to give good support while carving wood, Like the sole of a plane. Its also resonable good at general work but does not really good at standing up to abuse, traditionally axes/hatchets or perhaps sami chopping knives or sometimes a second "beater knife" were used for that, either with sligthly steeper angle "scandi" edges for carving use or convex grind for chopping use. Convex grind is better at cutting throug stuff, and as most mora knives are used on the workplace or home to cut, pry and poke around the manufacturers ship them with slightly to shallow angle grinds with the micro bevel to make them better cutters and to hold up to abuse better.
@@borjesvensson8661 Sharpened my mora to a true scandi, only to find out that it made the knife worthless by doing so. That steel with that true zero edge simply didn't hold up to *any* actual use. Light wood carving mangled the delicate edge. Wound up having to put the secondary bevel back on. Works fine now.
This makes a lot of sense. I just got my first scandi grind knife and the #1 reason was ease of sharpening. So I better make sure it STAYS easy to sharpen!
Aaaaand that is another reason the low end Mora's are great, you can sacrifice one or two to learning how to sharpen Scandi grinds correctly on a real Scandi grind with decent steel without ruining more expensive knives.
@Gray Au i dont think scandi sucks in general, in my opinion it is sometimes too demanding for the steel quality. For exmple, my Mora Companion came with scandi grind with a micro bevel (i dont like to call this sabre grind since the secondary bevel was only about quarter of milimeter wide). When i tried to sharpen it like a full scandi, i ended with an edge that was to thin and got bent during casual cutting task. Instead of reprofiling the whole blade or returning to the secondary bevel i went for the scandivex grind and cant comply about the edge retention now.
@@s7r49 Yeah..I've wasted countless hours trying to sharpen a "scandi" Mora, until I took a new one, put it under a microscope, and observed a distinct secondary / micro bevel. What is the point of them being sold as Scandi grinds, when they aren't scandi grinds? Literally the whole point is to have a very easy to sharpen profile that anyone can do, even out in the field.
@Ryan Boswood In my experience its all about practice. Practice and reasonable quality stones, which should be in ideal case pretty flat (no need to go crazy, but it helps for me). As far as I know, the scandi grinds are tricky in the way that while they allow you to set the sharpening angle on pretty easily, you need to take off quite a lot of material in comparison to a secondary bevel grind. This means that any minor mistake that you make gets amplified quite a lot. For example, if you tend to rock or tilt the blade on the end or beginning of each stroke, after a greater number of repetitions it might eventually round your bevel, making it slightly convex. After that, finding the correct angle to sharpen on again can be a bit difficult. If I were you, I wouldnt be really afraid of ruining cheap knives - I am not sure what you ment by "totally destroying", but unless you remove so much material that the knife isnt able to hold up, you most likely haven't done anything what somebody with some sharpening experience couldnt fix. The only reason why I would not recommed starting with expensive knives is the fact that you could damage them cosmetically, and while this is fine with cheap things, you most likely want your more valuable ones to be nice and shiny/satine/stonewash/whatever finish you like :P
I just purchased a scandi grind folder, this was superbly illustrated. And therefore super appreciated to extend the life of my knife through your knowledge. Greetings from New Zealand 🙏
You can strop with compound directly on a flat board. The leather of the strop compresses resulting in the rounding of the apex. For a bushcraft knife you might actually want this to strengthen the edge but when I am carving (mora 106) I use compound straight onto the board and it keeps a flatter bevel.
EXACTLY !!! If I really wanted to strop, I would use compound, or the slurry off an 8000 grit stone, on a piece of MDF. As far as I am concerned, the ultimate Scandi grind is the ultimate fragile edge. You are not taking your knife into the wilderness to make a fine furniture, Or to cut pieces of paper FFS. A knife that you take camping with you is a relatively crude tool That needs a combination of reasonable sharpness and reliable edge strength.
Thanks Kyle, this is exactly what I've been saying about all knives that do not have a secondary bevel at the cutting edge. To say that a Scandi grind is so easy to sharpen in the field is just NOT true. Yes you can put a sort of edge on it for a while, but, as you've said you're actually ruining your grind. What happens in most cases is that the less arduous solution is to sharpen at a steeper angle, thus changing the profile, till eventually it's mostly only useful as a doorstop it's so steep. The cynic in me says that the reason it is so widely recommended by experts is because it has to go back so often to an expert for proper sharpening. But I guess we all have to make a living. Most people who say it's easy to sharpen are people who have some considerable expertise with knives. For beginners it's a nightmare. One thing I do concede is that the Scandi grind is good for woodworking tools, as the angle is similar to that of a chisel, only double sided. For most other tasks like peeling, food prep, skinning, dressing meat etc flat and hollow grinds outperform the Scandi grind by a long way. It is most definitely NOT a solution for ALL camp tasks. For a SHTF survival situation it has serious shortcomings. Sharpening a hollow or sabre grind knife is actually quite easy, even to get a perfect edge, as there is much less probability for making a serious error, as your diagrams so clearly illustrate! Well done on that. Take away: from this it becomes clear that specific tasks around camp require specific knives, with the necessary characteristics to work effectively, and provide a pleasant experience while doing so. Yes, this means you might need more than one knife. However, if you like hacking it and expending lots of energy you can use just about anything out there and eventually the task may get done and leave you with all ten fingers and a full quota of blood inside. Thanks again.
It becomes a scandivex. [2] And it may performs even better, hold an edge better, less chips. I like it. Although, I try not to raise the angle not to convex to much. Last time on stones, I've modifeid my Mora, reduced the angle, raised the bevel line and stroped. So it seems like a tommy pukko. Bites much deeper in wood and the convex edge reduces the chiping issue. I like it. Still make great feathers.
Sanding belts and leather strops will form slight convex bevels, even working on a wet stone by hand will tend to convex as the wrist flexes. A fixed angle jig would form a flat edge. Thick blades over 1/8th" tend not to perform well with a Scandinavian grind as the edge angle is too severe. My family bloodlines came from Sami of Inari and some old blades I have seen are all convex edged (both on 'leuku' and 'puukko' sized blades). I have heard from people who have researched this topic that mechanized mass production resulted in what we believe is the flat grind profile 'Scandi' we see today. Thanks for opening up this discussion :)
I sharpen all my Mora's on sandpaper and keep them sharp by stropping. The sanding blocks with spring clips have the somewhat soft backing. Perfect for sharpening a scandi grind knife to convex it slightly.. No stones needed. And the scandivex is best. A slight convex grind. Makes the edge tougher, but still very sharp.
The Mora Companion used to come with the sabre grind, not sure if it still does, but the last one I bought had the secondary micro bevel. I got rid of the micro bevel as soon as I got it home. I have found that the skandi is my favorite blade grind for its versatility and its simplicity.
Your tutelage is incredible. You explained it, clearly, and in a way that helped others, saved them money, and did you no financial food aside from bolstering your credibility. You did quite well. I've now subscribed.
The first time I did a zero grind on my scandi knife, it was scary sharp. But the edge didn't last. I enjoyed using it but I took some chips and rolls. Now I can't be bothered taking even more steel and time to fix that. So I keep factory microbevel edge on the scandi.
i hear people using secondary grind/edge/bevel interchangeably with micro grind/edge/bevel, but here's how I like to make the distinction. On saber grinds, you can clearly see the "secondary" bevel, it's certainly nowhere near as long as the primary, but you can clearly see that edge. Whereas for scandi, I do sharpen (since it typically doesn't need reprofiling, on higher grit stones) them to scandi zero, but raise them ever so slightly for a micro edge on finer/finishing stone. These micro edges are visually not as prominent as the secondary edge on a saber grind. Of course another thing to point out is that the primary bevel on saber is a lot shallower than the angle of a scandi knife. Anyway, long story short, I like having micro bevels on scandi knives; I feel you get over 90% of the cutting performance (if not more) and a lot tougher edge. I also love sabers too though; one can never have too many knives (unless you ask my wife....)
I agree with you. I also microbevel my scans is because a true Scandinavian edge on my Finnish puukkos and I see the edge literally flexing while working on harder woods. I know that puukkos are meant to whittle softer woods though. But where I live we have harder woods as well. A week Scandi edge is not practical for me.
"Pure" Scandi grinds IMHO have one purpose WHITTLING. But even then as someone who whittles about an hour a day I find a scandiVex or full flatVex blend to be superior . Knife use through hundreds of hours will teach you much about grinds and which ones work best. Ruining a scandi is when a person puts it through a worksharp but basic microvexing an edge is natural. If done right it will save you steel and money.
For my user scandi's I actually want that small secondary convex edge. They even call it a scandivex. So I strop them before even taking them out in the field. A true scandi is way to weak for serious carving most of all some harder woods. The edge will roll on you. I tested a true factory scandi knife in Colombia and the first piece of hardwood I tried to cut the edge had a visible roll. So what you say is correct but who wants a true scandi knife for actual work in the field?
@@declanthiele No. Just a full scandi makes the edge to weak. To thin no matter the temper or steel. It all depends on the angle of the scandi of course. After some stropping these blades can withstand batoning even. So if it's just cutting fruits and vegetables (soft materials) keep that super thin edge. If you also want to do some woodwork give it a strop depending on the angle of the scandi.
I’ve noticed a lot of people using strops tend to flick their wrist at the end causing the edge to round off. What irks me is a new scandi showing up with a micro bevel right out of the factory (Garberg, etc). I dont get the point of that.. For field sharpening my A2/3v/Elmax scandis I use a 1.5 x 6 inch piece of ~3-4mm thick carbon fiber plate with naked thin smooth leather on one side, and the thin 3M microfinishing lapping adhesive sheet on the other. That stuff is amazing and weighs nothing. I’ve made a few of them, one has Tormek paste on the leather for Elmax blades. The trick to the strop side is using thin hard leather that doesn’t deform/compress much when the blade is pushed down on it so that it doesn’t “wrap” upwards around the edge causing it to round off leaving micro convex. Although, I’ve noticed more tiny edge dings what were not developing when I had some micro convexing in the past using a thicker leather with compound or paste. So I guess its a trade-off.
You get knives with a convex edge because people are sharpening them on stones and don't know how to hold the proper angle. They rock the blade as they pull it down the stone and cause the angle to change as they pull/push the blade. On top of that people who don't know how to sharpen their knives and try, are seldom using the same angle 2 strokes in a row. Stropping has little to do with the damaged edges you see. Most people don't even know what a strop is, much less actually own one.
Okay. Scandi - use a flat stone. Now I know what I keep doing wrong. Please tell me how do sharpen AND MAINTAIN a sabre grind. Excellent and to the point video.
Well said bro. Even my blacksmith drives me crazy by putting on a convex edge with his belts, and when I want to put on a decent V edge (scandi) I need to sharpen around 3-4 days - each day, at least 2 x 3 hours on my stones which is absolutely a stone and time killing, useless piece of unnecessary work. I hate it.
Funny, i stumbled across this video at 2 am and it just solved my recent knife predicament. I made a new strop out of some scrap veg. tan and i stropped my mora 511. I thought it would be shaving sharp but it couldn't even cut paper! I thought my angle was too steep and i goof'd up but this video just answered that question.
Scandi its really hard to maintain perfectly flat because the stone wears out and then getting it back perfectly sharp becomes almost impossible. I have a mora that gave me a lot of grief until i put it on the work sharp and convert it into convex. It worked best on 15 degrees angle and now the knife is really sharp and you can easily refine the edge on a strop.
FYI, Mora knives come from the factory with a micro bevel. The company intended their knives to be inexpensive, so they don’t use premium steel (except for the Garberg), so the micro bevel is necessary for a more durable edge. The good news is that the bevel really is micro, so it doesn’t take too long to bring it to a true scandi. The bad news is their scandi edge isn’t very durable.
Since the topic is sharpening I want to share a recent discovery for me. I have tried everything I could find for sharpening. I have used oil stones, water stones, diamond stones, carbide, ceramic and finally I found the one the easiest and fastest sharpening method for me I should say. I bought a block sharpener two crossed butchers steels in a plastic handle. Easy as pie all my knives are sharp.
These sharpeners can be somewhat effective for a short time, but they have many drawbacks. :-) I would highly recommend investing some time into learning true traditional knife sharpening of this caliber.
Yeah, they can be simple and fast! The problem is that they don't offer you an option to reprofile your entire bevel, so you just end up with an increasingly thick edge. Know what I mean? :-) Whatever works though! Thanks for watching and commenting my friend
Good tip. I recently bought a scandi grind knife for bushcraft and am looking forward to a easier method of sharpening. I would have stropped it the way you warned not to. You saved me some frustration.
I only strop my scandis. I made a strop with fairly hard leather and gently strop with the scandi flat on the strop. The knifes stay shaving sharp over years of use. But everyone has different use cases and skills. So I don't blame people who go for a more robust convex, or need to use a stone for flatness.
This is a great tutorial for a true scandi zero grind. However, keep in mind that alot of scandi grinds actually have a micro bevel. This goes for most moraknives and puukos. Sincerely, a guy who ruined his terävä jääkäripuukko 120 by watching this tutorial.
I feel you. I remember several years ago I had this awesome hand forged puukko and I wanted to convert it from sabre grind to true Scandi. After hours of grinding I finally succeeded only to find the quality of the blade reduced. Later I realized it originally had a scandivex grind with a Microbevel.
Good video. I skipped watching this video every time it popped up because I just assumed it was about people sharpening their scandi's as if they were regular knives and adding a secondary bevel. Now I'm glad I did watch it, I've been touching up my Mora on a straight razor strop and it has given it a slight convex. From now on I'll only use the plain leather side instead of the compound side.
Made my mora a true scandi, got chips and roles without abusing it. Gave it a convex micro bevel and it's much sturdier now. True scandi makes sense for carpenters and prepping food and game, that's it
This is precisely why I don't use stropping compound. It was never used in the old days. Stops were just a piece of leather, and it's just meant to put a nice smooth polish on the blade. And stropping also makes sure you've removed your false edge (burr).
Stropping compound was used, but not strops. My grandfather slapped a sock bag with a mix of talc and rottenstone and who knows what other magic ingredients onto a piece of flat wood, and dragged the knife over that until the edge shone. He used the same bag as a styptic if any of us kids cut ourselves.
If you have a problem with stropping a scandi grind its because you dont know how to use a strop, i just use an old leather belt holding it with my feet at hold the other end in my hand and i never had a problem with my edge by doing that.
A very good reason why I do my stropping on a pine board (no leather) with compound directly on the wood. And when it begins to deform, it’s kindling! Obviously, it needs to be a perfectly clear board with straight grain.
sometimes i find scandì to be too acute, and that makes the edge fairly week. which works fine for normal bush crafting(wood, rope or animals) which is kind of what its supposed to be made for. but for normal day uses donst work that well. so I sometimes sharpen them as saber. that makes maintenance much quicker, also because the edge doesn't get damaged as much.
I really needed this video. I'm having this problem and couldn't work out what was happening. After watching your video I think that this is the case. Thanks
With my scandi ground carving knives I'll strop them in between sharpening with compound but I use a very flat, glass backed kangaroo leather strop which reduces the convexing problem a lot. I also don't use much downward pressure, just enough to hold the knife in place. And when I notice that not working well anymore I sharpen them on metal diamond plate sharpener. Honestly scandi ground knives are a quite a bit more work when it comes to maintenance but if you need the capabilities you can't beat them.
It most certainly affects performance. You can no longer chisel with the blade, as when it rests on the bevel, the real edge is not near the wood. It also becomes much more difficult to whittle woods that split easily, as you create a wedging effect where the edge doesn't touch the wood and controls the cut. The amount of tearing increases significantly if you have a secondary bevel.
Fully agree that stropping (especially if done improperly) will ruin a Scandi grind. A ceramic rod or a rod system (like Lansky Turn Box or Spyderco Sharpmaker) is a relatively easy way to maintain true Scandi grinds .
Great vid! Helps me alot. May I ask what degree should a true scandi be? My tops bob scandi is at 11.8 degrees with a 20 degree micro bevel. My work tuff gear mt bushman’s scandi is at 8.9 degrees with a 20 degree micro bevel. Both are like this from the factory. Was thinking to make them both true scandi’s. Do you have any advise for me?
I've seen a lot of scandi's like this over the years. I always knew it as a scandi vex. It is a fairly common thing being that a lot of people just touch up edges in the field with something small like a dc4 and a small strop rather than taking the time to run it over the stone when they get home. On another note I always use a loaded strop on a scandi but only when it comes off the stone or ceramic. Anyways , that's my 2 cents worth. Thanks for another very informative video none the less and cheers till the next one!
thanks Chad! Yes, I should have thrown in the word scandivex, but most of these knives don't come from the factory with a vexed edge. most have a single bevel. If people don't mind the changes in edge geometry and sharpening style, it isn't a problem! I'm simply stating a recurring trend that I see! :-)
Weiderfan , mora use a micro bevel on all their knives because a true scandi is just to weak. A scandivex is not ruining your knife its improving it tenfold.
Derek Davies Exactly, I love my Garbergs micro bevel, I wasn't sure if I was gonna remove it or not but once I used it I clearly felt the difference much better.
Yes they do. They put a micro bevel on the scandi. Do your homework, i have with my own eyes received a mora from the factory and looked at the edge under magnification. What i saw was a secondary bevel. A clear secondary grind. You are full of it sorry.
Found this video just in time,I thought if I kept on top of things with the strop it would be better for the blade but I see now how that is not right,mine was starting to convex after only a few strops.
Just got a Mora Robust. As I'd like to learn to sharpen properly before buying expensive knife. Really don't know what to buy to maintain. Stone ,strop etc. Could you recommend what to buy for a beginner here in Ireland ??
I would disagree a little bit. With practice and understanding how different stropping methods affect an edge a scandi can be touched up nicely many times before a stone is needed. Different strokes for different folks of course. There will always be error with a human hand, even on the stone. Proper stropping can be quicker, easier and less wear on the edge. I like a tiny relief bevel anyways.
It’s not I practice to remove the steel and fix the grind properly, if the knife was maintained properly in the first place the steel would have been already removed with each edge touch up it’s just a lot of work!
I have always used the upper part of my chipawa boots to strop when /if needed but I don't cut paper with my knives I think all that is hokey, for show but to each his own and it is their $ . I have way to much to do other than sharpen knives. I use a ceramic rod from my grand father for kitchen knives to keep them sharp. These are what I worry about, and that usually takes a few seconds.I usually sharpen my other knives when it's to crappy outside to do other stuff.good video thanks for posting
if it isn't sharp enough to cut paper, then there is no point in stropping on your boots. My knives are wayyy past 'paper cutting sharp' before they even touch a stop, since a strop is only for final honing. It isn't aggressive enough before that stage, to really make a notable difference.
So the sabre bevel is the micro edge you were removing from your Mora video right? You were sharpening and honing a scandi bevel back onto it and then you polished the entire grind to a mirror polish....it was exciting.
Got Eräpuu Nahkatako with micro bevel. Mora also puts micro bevels at their knives. Here is the quote from their site: "Most of our knives have the True Scandi Grind that includes the typical micro bevel of a total edge angle of about 35-45° which is about 0.05 - 0.5 mm high to make the edge less fragile and with better edge retention." I guess they just don't know how to make "proper" scandi grind 😀
I ruined two knives listening to people who said Scandi grind knives are easy to sharpen. Then, when I began searching for a professional knife sharpener to restore my knives, I couldn't find one that was willing or able to sharpen a Scandi ground knife. IT'S A TRAP!
I keep hearing people say how easy a scandi is to sharpen .. I disagree... The large amount of metal you need to remove to sharpen it correctly means that it is hard work to maintain.. A saber, flat or better still a hollow grind is a much better all around choice for most people xx
I thought a lot of manufacturers would add a tiny microbevel to a scandi grind as well out of the factory? For example, I measured my Helle bushcraft knife at 23deg inclusive for the scandi grind (11.5 dps) which is super steep (and not that durable?). I mean, even high end cooking knives are about 14-15 degrees I believe, wouldn't an 11.5deg cutting edge fold super easily?
Most people would call that "scandivex" where there is only the primary and it's a bit convexed I doubt ancient humans used a completely flat primary bevel anyway Would be difficult
Weiderfan a sabre is far higher on the initial grind usually double the hight of a scandi. Dude you are not giving very accurate info here. I can email you a diagram of grinds if you need clarification.
In Scandinavia, honing was traditionally done on schist, which naturally breaks up into very flat stones. So yes, flat grinds were easier in Scandinavia than many other places.
Traditionally scandinavian grinds would (and still do, at least for those that know what they're doing sharpening knives för sloyd/slöjd) actually have a hollow ground bevel, done with a big rotating stone, that is reground once in a while, you then hone this hollow ground bevel with a sharpening stone until you've worked the edge back so far that the actual bevel angle has become to big, then it's back to the rotating grinding stone for regrinding the correct bevel angle again. You can of course get flat bevels on a rotating grinding stone as well, you first grind in the hollow grind with the knife positioned crosswise to the rotation of the stone, after that's done you flatten it out with the bevel paralell to the rotation of the stone.
also they might have used stone blades which are still known to be sharper than anything that can be ground out of steel ;) "Under the microscope, you could see the obsidian scalpel had divided individual cells in half, and next to it, the steel scalpel incision looked like it had been made by a chainsaw." from: edition.cnn.com/2015/04/02/health/surgery-scalpels-obsidian/index.html
Try getting hold of a Norwegian schist ragstone. They are flat by nature, and typically in a boat shape, and I guess around the equivalent of 100 grit when putting weight on the grind. They remove steel really fast, making it much quicker to re-establish a flat bevel. Second best would be an old Washita stone, which also is a fast remover. Luckily I don't have to use these super aggressive stones often, but when I do pick up something abused from a thrift store, they're nice to have.
What if I want a convex grind, will stropping on a leather keep my convex edge? Or what if I have a micro-bevel on a flat or scandi grind, how do I resharpen that micro-bevel?
Stropping on leather will help to keep your convex, for sure. You would sharpen a micro bevel just as you would sharpen any knife, say a buck 110, with a small secondary bevel.
If you ever come into a real survival situation, just sit down and start sharpening your knife.
In less than 15 minutes someone will appear and tell you how to do it right in his opinion.
This also works for cooking animals.
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One other option for stropping a scandi grind without creating a convex edge is to use a hardwood strop. As a furniture-maker, this is what I do for my chisels between sharpening them with stones. All you have to do is cut a piece of hardwood so you have a very flat portion of end grain exposed and rub stropping compound into the open pores. You then have a flat, hard, durable surface charged with the fine stropping abrasive that will not convex your edge the way a leather strop will. It works incredibly well and saves me leaving the bench to sharpen on my stones. It also save wear on my nice stones and costs virtually nothing.
@Donny p. I was also a professional hand tool woodworker, reliant on ultra sharp planes and chiselsand I echo your advice. However, I would bet a fair amount of money that @Least 90% ofthe knife fetishists reading this thread Would not be able to plane a flat surface on the end grain of a piece of hardwood. That is why I recommend MDF -. It’s flat and it’s cheap.
@@MrNetnic I’m one of the dirty fetishists you speak of. Firstly, I hope you’re having a wonderful day being a worthy blade owner unlike us fetishists who get hard for sharpening blades we never use. Secondly, can you think of any way to obtain a small piece of mdf without having to purchase an entire board? I’m not a tool guy and always feel lost in the Home Depot unless I’m staring at a shiny knife edge attached to a tool I have no understanding of. Anyway, is there anything small that’s made of mdf i could purchase that I could strop my skandi grinds on. Because if I can’t achieve a hair shaving edge then I can’t get hard. And if I can’t get hard my wife gets angry. My marriage is on the line here. So, I’m begging you to once again impart your knowledge upon me and tell me how to acquire a small piece of mdf.
@@bradlarrison191 construction site scrap bins, also the hardware store will generally cut that plank down for you, if you ask nicely ofc. but is having some excess wood ever really a bad thing? your wife apparently thinks not haha
Using the white board makes a great video. You explain things well with the illustrations.
Thanks so much! I appreciate that :-)
Mors Kochanski used a strop, Ray Mears applies a micro bevel, and furthermore, traditional Scandinavian knives were very high convex grinds. A zero grind is actually very delicate on the cutting edge, and can chip out easily.
Yup, also; Cody Lundin uses sandpaper, no stones (for more than 30 years now).
On cardboard or something like that.
A little convex is not bad but good.
And what Kyle gets from customers, seems to be cases of completely focusing on the apex when stropping.
Then you get the overly rounding effect.
When keeping the whole bevel on the leather or sandpaper, it will work fine.
No stones needed.
Some might argue that a scadi-vex is better than a true scandi, and it was used originally, the flat scandi grind is a relatively new thing, that only came about with modern machinery in the factories of the last century or so.
Scandi is delicate. I have no problem with the slightly convexed edge. Stays sharp longer. And I take the stone to the blade. It's so much more controllable to me.
I've heard that Scandivex is the absolute best edge you can have on a bushcraft knife so thats why they strop with compounds.
They hold an edge somewhat longer. You don't need necessarily need a strop for any reason with any bevel. A strop is for honing, and polishing out the microserration as well as the steel itself, your edge will potentially last longer (if you didn't try to sharpen with a strop and make your edge atomically thin) and be prettier, not necessarily perform better.
Convex is the best bevel for holding an edge, which means it is the best bevel period (but especially for bushcraft/survival)
@@SoftBreadSoft The reason our knifes have flat bevels is to give good support while carving wood, Like the sole of a plane. Its also resonable good at general work but does not really good at standing up to abuse, traditionally axes/hatchets or perhaps sami chopping knives or sometimes a second "beater knife" were used for that, either with sligthly steeper angle "scandi" edges for carving use or convex grind for chopping use. Convex grind is better at cutting throug stuff, and as most mora knives are used on the workplace or home to cut, pry and poke around the manufacturers ship them with slightly to shallow angle grinds with the micro bevel to make them better cutters and to hold up to abuse better.
@@borjesvensson8661 Sharpened my mora to a true scandi, only to find out that it made the knife worthless by doing so. That steel with that true zero edge simply didn't hold up to *any* actual use. Light wood carving mangled the delicate edge.
Wound up having to put the secondary bevel back on. Works fine now.
This makes a lot of sense. I just got my first scandi grind knife and the #1 reason was ease of sharpening. So I better make sure it STAYS easy to sharpen!
Aaaaand that is another reason the low end Mora's are great, you can sacrifice one or two to learning how to sharpen Scandi grinds correctly on a real Scandi grind with decent steel without ruining more expensive knives.
absolutely!
@Gray Au i dont think scandi sucks in general, in my opinion it is sometimes too demanding for the steel quality. For exmple, my Mora Companion came with scandi grind with a micro bevel (i dont like to call this sabre grind since the secondary bevel was only about quarter of milimeter wide). When i tried to sharpen it like a full scandi, i ended with an edge that was to thin and got bent during casual cutting task. Instead of reprofiling the whole blade or returning to the secondary bevel i went for the scandivex grind and cant comply about the edge retention now.
@@s7r49 Yeah..I've wasted countless hours trying to sharpen a "scandi" Mora, until I took a new one, put it under a microscope, and observed a distinct secondary / micro bevel. What is the point of them being sold as Scandi grinds, when they aren't scandi grinds? Literally the whole point is to have a very easy to sharpen profile that anyone can do, even out in the field.
Amen to that
@Ryan Boswood In my experience its all about practice. Practice and reasonable quality stones, which should be in ideal case pretty flat (no need to go crazy, but it helps for me).
As far as I know, the scandi grinds are tricky in the way that while they allow you to set the sharpening angle on pretty easily, you need to take off quite a lot of material in comparison to a secondary bevel grind. This means that any minor mistake that you make gets amplified quite a lot. For example, if you tend to rock or tilt the blade on the end or beginning of each stroke, after a greater number of repetitions it might eventually round your bevel, making it slightly convex. After that, finding the correct angle to sharpen on again can be a bit difficult.
If I were you, I wouldnt be really afraid of ruining cheap knives - I am not sure what you ment by "totally destroying", but unless you remove so much material that the knife isnt able to hold up, you most likely haven't done anything what somebody with some sharpening experience couldnt fix. The only reason why I would not recommed starting with expensive knives is the fact that you could damage them cosmetically, and while this is fine with cheap things, you most likely want your more valuable ones to be nice and shiny/satine/stonewash/whatever finish you like :P
This is the best video I have seen so far explaining these two different grinds
I just purchased a scandi grind folder, this was superbly illustrated. And therefore super appreciated to extend the life of my knife through your knowledge. Greetings from New Zealand 🙏
You can strop with compound directly on a flat board. The leather of the strop compresses resulting in the rounding of the apex. For a bushcraft knife you might actually want this to strengthen the edge but when I am carving (mora 106) I use compound straight onto the board and it keeps a flatter bevel.
EXACTLY !!! If I really wanted to strop, I would use compound, or the slurry off an 8000 grit stone, on a piece of MDF. As far as I am concerned, the ultimate Scandi grind is the ultimate fragile edge. You are not taking your knife into the wilderness to make a fine furniture, Or to cut pieces of paper FFS. A knife that you take camping with you is a relatively crude tool That needs a combination of reasonable sharpness and reliable edge strength.
Thanks Kyle, this is exactly what I've been saying about all knives that do not have a secondary bevel at the cutting edge. To say that a Scandi grind is so easy to sharpen in the field is just NOT true. Yes you can put a sort of edge on it for a while, but, as you've said you're actually ruining your grind. What happens in most cases is that the less arduous solution is to sharpen at a steeper angle, thus changing the profile, till eventually it's mostly only useful as a doorstop it's so steep. The cynic in me says that the reason it is so widely recommended by experts is because it has to go back so often to an expert for proper sharpening. But I guess we all have to make a living. Most people who say it's easy to sharpen are people who have some considerable expertise with knives. For beginners it's a nightmare. One thing I do concede is that the Scandi grind is good for woodworking tools, as the angle is similar to that of a chisel, only double sided. For most other tasks like peeling, food prep, skinning, dressing meat etc flat and hollow grinds outperform the Scandi grind by a long way. It is most definitely NOT a solution for ALL camp tasks. For a SHTF survival situation it has serious shortcomings. Sharpening a hollow or sabre grind knife is actually quite easy, even to get a perfect edge, as there is much less probability for making a serious error, as your diagrams so clearly illustrate! Well done on that. Take away: from this it becomes clear that specific tasks around camp require specific knives, with the necessary characteristics to work effectively, and provide a pleasant experience while doing so. Yes, this means you might need more than one knife. However, if you like hacking it and expending lots of energy you can use just about anything out there and eventually the task may get done and leave you with all ten fingers and a full quota of blood inside. Thanks again.
@@beowulf_of_wall_st S
A hollow grind doesn't have a "flat".
@@beowulf_of_wall_st Of course not, and I never intimated that it was.
Very good explanation as to why scandis can get ruined. Thanks for sharing!
It becomes a scandivex. [2]
And it may performs even better, hold an edge better, less chips. I like it.
Although, I try not to raise the angle not to convex to much.
Last time on stones, I've modifeid my Mora, reduced the angle, raised the bevel line and stroped. So it seems like a tommy pukko. Bites much deeper in wood and the convex edge reduces the chiping issue. I like it. Still make great feathers.
Sanding belts and leather strops will form slight convex bevels, even working on a wet stone by hand will tend to convex as the wrist flexes. A fixed angle jig would form a flat edge. Thick blades over 1/8th" tend not to perform well with a Scandinavian grind as the edge angle is too severe. My family bloodlines came from Sami of Inari and some old blades I have seen are all convex edged (both on 'leuku' and 'puukko' sized blades). I have heard from people who have researched this topic that mechanized mass production resulted in what we believe is the flat grind profile 'Scandi' we see today. Thanks for opening up this discussion :)
I sharpen all my Mora's on sandpaper and keep them sharp by stropping. The sanding blocks with spring clips have the somewhat soft backing. Perfect for sharpening a scandi grind knife to convex it slightly..
No stones needed. And the scandivex is best.
A slight convex grind.
Makes the edge tougher, but still very sharp.
The Mora Companion used to come with the sabre grind, not sure if it still does, but the last one I bought had the secondary micro bevel. I got rid of the micro bevel as soon as I got it home. I have found that the skandi is my favorite blade grind for its versatility and its simplicity.
Your tutelage is incredible. You explained it, clearly, and in a way that helped others, saved them money, and did you no financial food aside from bolstering your credibility. You did quite well.
I've now subscribed.
The first time I did a zero grind on my scandi knife, it was scary sharp. But the edge didn't last. I enjoyed using it but I took some chips and rolls. Now I can't be bothered taking even more steel and time to fix that. So I keep factory microbevel edge on the scandi.
I just use the back of my belt. Works great. After batoning a 1075 Condor Bushlore, that's all I need to do to hone the edge.
i hear people using secondary grind/edge/bevel interchangeably with micro grind/edge/bevel, but here's how I like to make the distinction. On saber grinds, you can clearly see the "secondary" bevel, it's certainly nowhere near as long as the primary, but you can clearly see that edge. Whereas for scandi, I do sharpen (since it typically doesn't need reprofiling, on higher grit stones) them to scandi zero, but raise them ever so slightly for a micro edge on finer/finishing stone. These micro edges are visually not as prominent as the secondary edge on a saber grind. Of course another thing to point out is that the primary bevel on saber is a lot shallower than the angle of a scandi knife. Anyway, long story short, I like having micro bevels on scandi knives; I feel you get over 90% of the cutting performance (if not more) and a lot tougher edge. I also love sabers too though; one can never have too many knives (unless you ask my wife....)
I agree with you. I also microbevel my scans is because a true Scandinavian edge on my Finnish puukkos and I see the edge literally flexing while working on harder woods. I know that puukkos are meant to whittle softer woods though. But where I live we have harder woods as well.
A week Scandi edge is not practical for me.
I would prefer the small convex compared to the sabre grind
Excellent illustration! I said out loud to myself: good guy... He definitely knows what he's talking about!!!
"Pure" Scandi grinds IMHO have one
purpose WHITTLING.
But even then as someone who whittles about an hour a day I find a scandiVex or full flatVex blend to be superior .
Knife use through hundreds of hours will teach you much about grinds and which ones work best.
Ruining a scandi is when a person puts it through a worksharp but basic microvexing an edge is natural. If done right it will save you steel and money.
For my user scandi's I actually want that small secondary convex edge. They even call it a scandivex. So I strop them before even taking them out in the field.
A true scandi is way to weak for serious carving most of all some harder woods. The edge will roll on you.
I tested a true factory scandi knife in Colombia and the first piece of hardwood I tried to cut the edge had a visible roll.
So what you say is correct but who wants a true scandi knife for actual work in the field?
Sounds like the temper is too soft on those blades
@@declanthiele No. Just a full scandi makes the edge to weak. To thin no matter the temper or steel. It all depends on the angle of the scandi of course. After some stropping these blades can withstand batoning even. So if it's just cutting fruits and vegetables (soft materials) keep that super thin edge. If you also want to do some woodwork give it a strop depending on the angle of the scandi.
I’ve noticed a lot of people using strops tend to flick their wrist at the end causing the edge to round off.
What irks me is a new scandi showing up with a micro bevel right out of the factory (Garberg, etc). I dont get the point of that..
For field sharpening my A2/3v/Elmax scandis I use a 1.5 x 6 inch piece of ~3-4mm thick carbon fiber plate with naked thin smooth leather on one side, and the thin 3M microfinishing lapping adhesive sheet on the other. That stuff is amazing and weighs nothing.
I’ve made a few of them, one has Tormek paste on the leather for Elmax blades.
The trick to the strop side is using thin hard leather that doesn’t deform/compress much when the blade is pushed down on it so that it doesn’t “wrap” upwards around the edge causing it to round off leaving micro convex.
Although, I’ve noticed more tiny edge dings what were not developing when I had some micro convexing in the past using a thicker leather with compound or paste.
So I guess its a trade-off.
You get knives with a convex edge because people are sharpening them on stones and don't know how to hold the proper angle. They rock the blade as they pull it down the stone and cause the angle to change as they pull/push the blade. On top of that people who don't know how to sharpen their knives and try, are seldom using the same angle 2 strokes in a row. Stropping has little to do with the damaged edges you see. Most people don't even know what a strop is, much less actually own one.
Okay. Scandi - use a flat stone. Now I know what I keep doing wrong.
Please tell me how do sharpen AND MAINTAIN a sabre grind.
Excellent and to the point video.
Makes sense to me! Time to be more careful on the leather.
thanks for watching!
Well said bro. Even my blacksmith drives me crazy by putting on a convex edge with his belts, and when I want to put on a decent V edge (scandi) I need to sharpen around 3-4 days - each day, at least 2 x 3 hours on my stones which is absolutely a stone and time killing, useless piece of unnecessary work. I hate it.
Thanks for the tip, I have been stropping my blades, but I'm going to try your advice out and see what difference it makes.
Funny, i stumbled across this video at 2 am and it just solved my recent knife predicament. I made a new strop out of some scrap veg. tan and i stropped my mora 511. I thought it would be shaving sharp but it couldn't even cut paper! I thought my angle was too steep and i goof'd up but this video just answered that question.
Scandi its really hard to maintain perfectly flat because the stone wears out and then getting it back perfectly sharp becomes almost impossible. I have a mora that gave me a lot of grief until i put it on the work sharp and convert it into convex. It worked best on 15 degrees angle and now the knife is really sharp and you can easily refine the edge on a strop.
Awesome for the tip getting my first scandi bushcraft knife .
Sabre grinds usually higher than Scandi. Not just secondary bevel or not
@whois this i have seen you comment at least 7 times on different videos tonight 😂
@@jkittle05 is that all? Gotta find them all!
Whois This 😂 i’ll try i’ve seen you’ve been interested in neck knives over the last 5 years
FYI, Mora knives come from the factory with a micro bevel. The company intended their knives to be inexpensive, so they don’t use premium steel (except for the Garberg), so the micro bevel is necessary for a more durable edge.
The good news is that the bevel really is micro, so it doesn’t take too long to bring it to a true scandi. The bad news is their scandi edge isn’t very durable.
Wrong. Both are already durable. Just the expensive one is added another point on durability.
This is why I never use a strop. I have a 3/32x2x4 inch hardened steel plate for honing the edge.
Since the topic is sharpening I want to share a recent discovery for me. I have tried everything I could find for sharpening. I have used oil stones, water stones, diamond stones, carbide, ceramic and finally I found the one the easiest and fastest sharpening method for me I should say. I bought a block sharpener two crossed butchers steels in a plastic handle. Easy as pie all my knives are sharp.
These sharpeners can be somewhat effective for a short time, but they have many drawbacks. :-) I would highly recommend investing some time into learning true traditional knife sharpening of this caliber.
Thanks for the reply. I agree you need to know the basics of sharpening but that little tool works wonders for me.
Yeah, they can be simple and fast! The problem is that they don't offer you an option to reprofile your entire bevel, so you just end up with an increasingly thick edge. Know what I mean? :-) Whatever works though! Thanks for watching and commenting my friend
Thanks. Nice to know that strops are better WITHOUT compounds. Really makes things easier...
A lot of knives advertised with a scandi grind come with a secondary bevel though, even from Mora.
Good tip. I recently bought a scandi grind knife for bushcraft and am looking forward to a easier method of sharpening. I would have stropped it the way you warned not to. You saved me some frustration.
Thanks YJ!
Short & concise. Excellent!
I only strop my scandis.
I made a strop with fairly hard leather and gently strop with the scandi flat on the strop.
The knifes stay shaving sharp over years of use.
But everyone has different use cases and skills.
So I don't blame people who go for a more robust convex, or need to use a stone for flatness.
Never owned a Scandi knife and had no idea about this. thanks for the info bro!
my pleasure Kev!
This is a great tutorial for a true scandi zero grind. However, keep in mind that alot of scandi grinds actually have a micro bevel. This goes for most moraknives and puukos.
Sincerely, a guy who ruined his terävä jääkäripuukko 120 by watching this tutorial.
same ruined my mora 120 yesturday...
I feel you. I remember several years ago I had this awesome hand forged puukko and I wanted to convert it from sabre grind to true Scandi. After hours of grinding I finally succeeded only to find the quality of the blade reduced. Later I realized it originally had a scandivex grind with a Microbevel.
Man I need to see this video. I literally am the guy you've described ruining the blade. Thanks for this
Good video. I skipped watching this video every time it popped up because I just assumed it was about people sharpening their scandi's as if they were regular knives and adding a secondary bevel. Now I'm glad I did watch it, I've been touching up my Mora on a straight razor strop and it has given it a slight convex. From now on I'll only use the plain leather side instead of the compound side.
Great simplified lesson for an amateur as myself. Thank you and Merry Christmas. 🎄
Made my mora a true scandi, got chips and roles without abusing it. Gave it a convex micro bevel and it's much sturdier now. True scandi makes sense for carpenters and prepping food and game, that's it
Amazing! I was waiting someone do this video long time ago! No one know how much my scandi knives are suffering! Loll!
Thanks bro!
haha glad you enjoyed it my friend!
good info on how to prevent damage on scandi grinds, but you also helped me with some insight on how to get a good convex grind as well! thank you!
This is precisely why I don't use stropping compound. It was never used in the old days. Stops were just a piece of leather, and it's just meant to put a nice smooth polish on the blade. And stropping also makes sure you've removed your false edge (burr).
Stropping compound was used, but not strops. My grandfather slapped a sock bag with a mix of talc and rottenstone and who knows what other magic ingredients onto a piece of flat wood, and dragged the knife over that until the edge shone. He used the same bag as a styptic if any of us kids cut ourselves.
hi there! great explanation.what are the best grits to sharpen the knife? just for bushcraft and utilitarian purposes, not aesthetics
If you have a problem with stropping a scandi grind its because you dont know how to use a strop, i just use an old leather belt holding it with my feet at hold the other end in my hand and i never had a problem with my edge by doing that.
Excellent video. I used to have this problem off and on till I figured out what you've explained very nicely with the diagrams.
I just bought a scandi grind folder and will be using a guided knife sharpener such as the tsprof. Any tips.
Thanks for showing us and take care.
A very good reason why I do my stropping on a pine board (no leather) with compound directly on the wood. And when it begins to deform, it’s kindling! Obviously, it needs to be a perfectly clear board with straight grain.
sometimes i find scandì to be too acute, and that makes the edge fairly week. which works fine for normal bush crafting(wood, rope or animals) which is kind of what its supposed to be made for. but for normal day uses donst work that well. so I sometimes sharpen them as saber. that makes maintenance much quicker, also because the edge doesn't get damaged as much.
They also come to shallow from the factory. About 22° to 26° is recomended for woodworking. I think mora is about 19°
I really needed this video. I'm having this problem and couldn't work out what was happening. After watching your video I think that this is the case.
Thanks
With my scandi ground carving knives I'll strop them in between sharpening with compound but I use a very flat, glass backed kangaroo leather strop which reduces the convexing problem a lot. I also don't use much downward pressure, just enough to hold the knife in place. And when I notice that not working well anymore I sharpen them on metal diamond plate sharpener. Honestly scandi ground knives are a quite a bit more work when it comes to maintenance but if you need the capabilities you can't beat them.
These are very correct tips. Thank you from the other side of the ocean!
There's nothing wrong with a micro convexed scandi grind, doesn't really affect performance much but helps with edge holding.
It most certainly affects performance. You can no longer chisel with the blade, as when it rests on the bevel, the real edge is not near the wood.
It also becomes much more difficult to whittle woods that split easily, as you create a wedging effect where the edge doesn't touch the wood and controls the cut. The amount of tearing increases significantly if you have a secondary bevel.
Thank you for taking the myth out of knife sharpening and presenting clear facts. This channel has helped me tremendously.
Thank you for this video. Great information and insights.
Thank you very much for the info! The over-convexing has always been an issue with my scandi grind knives.
Stop winging the grinding is doing the work!! And it doesn't take a ton of time either!!
Thanks for pointing that out, and everyone thx for the good info in the comments!
Fully agree that stropping (especially if done improperly) will ruin a Scandi grind. A ceramic rod or a rod system (like Lansky Turn Box or Spyderco Sharpmaker) is a relatively easy way to maintain true Scandi grinds .
I don't have a knife with a skandi grind yet. But how often would you need to sharpen it, because that's a lot of surface to sharpen?
Great vid! Helps me alot. May I ask what degree should a true scandi be? My tops bob scandi is at 11.8 degrees with a 20 degree micro bevel. My work tuff gear mt bushman’s scandi is at 8.9 degrees with a 20 degree micro bevel. Both are like this from the factory. Was thinking to make them both true scandi’s. Do you have any advise for me?
I've seen a lot of scandi's like this over the years. I always knew it as a scandi vex. It is a fairly common thing being that a lot of people just touch up edges in the field with something small like a dc4 and a small strop rather than taking the time to run it over the stone when they get home. On another note I always use a loaded strop on a scandi but only when it comes off the stone or ceramic. Anyways , that's my 2 cents worth. Thanks for another very informative video none the less and cheers till the next one!
thanks Chad! Yes, I should have thrown in the word scandivex, but most of these knives don't come from the factory with a vexed edge. most have a single bevel. If people don't mind the changes in edge geometry and sharpening style, it isn't a problem! I'm simply stating a recurring trend that I see! :-)
No doubt bud. I was just saying.
Weiderfan , mora use a micro bevel on all their knives because a true scandi is just to weak. A scandivex is not ruining your knife its improving it tenfold.
Derek Davies Exactly, I love my Garbergs micro bevel, I wasn't sure if I was gonna remove it or not but once I used it I clearly felt the difference much better.
Yes they do. They put a micro bevel on the scandi. Do your homework, i have with my own eyes received a mora from the factory and looked at the edge under magnification. What i saw was a secondary bevel. A clear secondary grind. You are full of it sorry.
Found this video just in time,I thought if I kept on top of things with the strop it would be better for the blade but I see now how that is not right,mine was starting to convex after only a few strops.
Yea it can happen quickly!
Just got a Mora Robust. As I'd like to learn to sharpen properly before buying expensive knife. Really don't know what to buy to maintain. Stone ,strop etc. Could you recommend what to buy for a beginner here in Ireland ??
I would disagree a little bit. With practice and understanding how different stropping methods affect an edge a scandi can be touched up nicely many times before a stone is needed. Different strokes for different folks of course. There will always be error with a human hand, even on the stone. Proper stropping can be quicker, easier and less wear on the edge. I like a tiny relief bevel anyways.
So is it still fixable? My first knife was a mora and I used it to learn how to sharpen 🥲 It's been dull ever since.
Sure. Any piece of steel can be sharpened.
It’s not I practice to remove the steel and fix the grind properly, if the knife was maintained properly in the first place the steel would have been already removed with each edge touch up it’s just a lot of work!
You can strop on wood put the stopping compound on a perfectly flat peice of pine
Thank you! Great video!
Makes sense to me. I see many posts saying a secondary bevel prevents rolling of the edge. What say you?
It doesn’t prevent rolling but it does make the edge significantly tougher
Try a Smith Custom they WON'T roll
Yes it does. They should really be about 22° to 26° but few are from factory.
Thanks for the great vid. I notice a lot of people not lapping their stone either
I have always used the upper part of my chipawa boots to strop when /if needed but I don't cut paper with my knives I think all that is hokey, for show but to each his own and it is their $ . I have way to much to do other than sharpen knives. I use a ceramic rod from my grand father for kitchen knives to keep them sharp. These are what I worry about, and that usually takes a few seconds.I usually sharpen my other knives when it's to crappy outside to do other stuff.good video thanks for posting
if it isn't sharp enough to cut paper, then there is no point in stropping on your boots. My knives are wayyy past 'paper cutting sharp' before they even touch a stop, since a strop is only for final honing. It isn't aggressive enough before that stage, to really make a notable difference.
So the sabre bevel is the micro edge you were removing from your Mora video right? You were sharpening and honing a scandi bevel back onto it and then you polished the entire grind to a mirror polish....it was exciting.
Inside every good scandi knife is a great convex edge waiting to be used.
Got Eräpuu Nahkatako with micro bevel. Mora also puts micro bevels at their knives. Here is the quote from their site: "Most of our knives have the True Scandi Grind that includes the typical micro bevel of a total edge angle of about 35-45° which is about 0.05 - 0.5 mm high to make the edge less fragile and with better edge retention." I guess they just don't know how to make "proper" scandi grind 😀
I ruined two knives listening to people who said Scandi grind knives are easy to sharpen. Then, when I began searching for a professional knife sharpener to restore my knives, I couldn't find one that was willing or able to sharpen a Scandi ground knife. IT'S A TRAP!
I don't see anything wrong with a scandi-vex, it's much stronger than a true scandi and it's the favorite grind of the Dutch Bushcraft Girls (DBK)
I keep hearing people say how easy a scandi is to sharpen .. I disagree... The large amount of metal you need to remove to sharpen it correctly means that it is hard work to maintain.. A saber, flat or better still a hollow grind is a much better all around choice for most people xx
Absolutely agree. I don't get how it's easier. There's a massive amount of edge surface to remove material from, compared to a regular V edge.
Makes a good point. I realized before I’d gone to far that I was ruining one of my Scandi knives
Unique accent....part Irish, part American. Almost ....watery. Flows between.
haha
Thank you sir this was very informative 😊
I thought a lot of manufacturers would add a tiny microbevel to a scandi grind as well out of the factory? For example, I measured my Helle bushcraft knife at 23deg inclusive for the scandi grind (11.5 dps) which is super steep (and not that durable?). I mean, even high end cooking knives are about 14-15 degrees I believe, wouldn't an 11.5deg cutting edge fold super easily?
Most people would call that "scandivex" where there is only the primary and it's a bit convexed
I doubt ancient humans used a completely flat primary bevel anyway
Would be difficult
You're right Eric. Scandivex. I'm simply saying that when a scandi has been convexed, I turn it into a sabre! thanks for watching bud!
Weiderfan a sabre is far higher on the initial grind usually double the hight of a scandi. Dude you are not giving very accurate info here. I can email you a diagram of grinds if you need clarification.
In Scandinavia, honing was traditionally done on schist, which naturally breaks up into very flat stones. So yes, flat grinds were easier in Scandinavia than many other places.
Traditionally scandinavian grinds would (and still do, at least for those that know what they're doing sharpening knives för sloyd/slöjd) actually have a hollow ground bevel, done with a big rotating stone, that is reground once in a while, you then hone this hollow ground bevel with a sharpening stone until you've worked the edge back so far that the actual bevel angle has become to big, then it's back to the rotating grinding stone for regrinding the correct bevel angle again.
You can of course get flat bevels on a rotating grinding stone as well, you first grind in the hollow grind with the knife positioned crosswise to the rotation of the stone, after that's done you flatten it out with the bevel paralell to the rotation of the stone.
also they might have used stone blades which are still known to be sharper than anything that can be ground out of steel ;)
"Under the microscope, you could see the obsidian scalpel had divided
individual cells in half, and next to it, the steel scalpel incision
looked like it had been made by a chainsaw."
from:
edition.cnn.com/2015/04/02/health/surgery-scalpels-obsidian/index.html
What is the coarsest stone you have? A TASK Garden Hone is very coarse, not to expensive, and chews through steel.
The coarsest I own is somewhere around 300 grit, I would guess!
Try getting hold of a Norwegian schist ragstone. They are flat by nature, and typically in a boat shape, and I guess around the equivalent of 100 grit when putting weight on the grind. They remove steel really fast, making it much quicker to re-establish a flat bevel. Second best would be an old Washita stone, which also is a fast remover.
Luckily I don't have to use these super aggressive stones often, but when I do pick up something abused from a thrift store, they're nice to have.
Great vid mate. Cheers
Just got a Helle Skala Folder. Scandi secondary grind, but with a micro-bevel on the primary!
What do you think about something like an MDF strop loaded with compound? Shouldn't convex the edge at all, but still polishes the bevel.
What if I want a convex grind, will stropping on a leather keep my convex edge? Or what if I have a micro-bevel on a flat or scandi grind, how do I resharpen that micro-bevel?
Stropping on leather will help to keep your convex, for sure. You would sharpen a micro bevel just as you would sharpen any knife, say a buck 110, with a small secondary bevel.
Very good video. Learned a few things. Thanks.
Thanks for that. Good on you.