Everything wrong with the 12 Rotor
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2023
- T-Shirts: www.dahmracing.com/collection...
Patreon for Build Videos: bit.ly/2koiw8G
Instagram: bit.ly/RobDahmIG
Subscribe to Rob Dahm: bit.ly/1OAN9yi
AWD 4 Rotor Video Series: bit.ly/2QiFduE - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
It still boggles my mind how that guy machined all of this. That thing is a work of art.
The crazy thing is it was all done on a vertical Has
The power of an educated individual, fully aware of what the heck his machine can do. You'd be shocked to find out just how little a lot of self proclaimed machinists (hired at that) know about their machines, what can be done on them, etc. Most of them are weekend to weekend workers.
@@Shortymack420fixturing is everything. But imagine how bad it would suck to fuck it up towards the end 😭😂
@@mostlymotorizedyou really don't understand the very very tight tolerances that engines require. This would have been EXTREMELY difficult to machine.
@@not_even_me5035 I cannot imagine how he calculated the continuous coordinates of the peritrochoid curve and programmed it into the NC machine.
This is my guess why he gave you the engine. He wanted someone who knew rotaries and could continue to develop it. Good on you for taking it on.
and document it
also start a fab and mass production.
@@dogin20definitely not lol the V12 and V8 is dying, imagine this.
@@dogin20 Mass production for who? What are you realistically going to do with that?
@@--_DJ_-- Having fun?
not that this isn't already ridiculous, but can't wait to see this pushing something
like a lincoln continental
@@scootersfrog it honestly might be but he'll have to figure out the cooling
@@luketurner5934Water injection would probably work.
@@scootersfrogor Lamborghini Diablo or Viper Gts
E type
I feel like watching Rob dahm is another level of content creation. His videos are so indepth, and I feel like I learn a lot about not only rotaries but also mechanics in general. I love this content, man.
its like toms turbo garage thunderbolt series but never ends
@@shitfaced1337Man, when you mentioned Tom I straight up searched his youtube channel. It’s 2 years back since he uploaded a video…
@@beetledrift He bought a Tesla. Everyone knew (and posted) that he killed the channel. He says he didn't. Yet, no videos so...
@@beetledrift he was on a roll, finished his main project, now he's busy living life I guess. that series was an awesome gift.
As long as you can get past his ego and the fact he's a huge asshole
Kinda neat seeing the generational knowledge being handed down. Saves a lot of time in iterating through failure 😊
Smart people learn from their misstakes,Wise people learn from others misstakes
@@amirbasssystemyep write down others failures
Whelp, I’m not taking any subs to the titanic!
Went through a mechanical apprenticeship on RR gas turbines. I myself not a giant, I just stood on the shoulders of some.
the fact this dude made this engine back in 2008 is WILD - don't think many people realize how much of a feat that was. And on top of that how much he got right with minimal mistakes. Obviously as time goes by things get better technology advancements etc. This thing is going to be insane.
To add to this, when making it he said he was using 60-70 year old machining tools, so that means its all “by hand” and im guessing he did the draught work for it himself too, the guy is literally a master engineer in my books, and i’m just happy they’re sharing this knowledge with us
It's so cool getting a proper video showing the inner workings of this mythical motor and I'm super excited to see it go together and hopefully fire up soon enough. There are so many weird myths and claims about this thing, just yesterday I saw someone claim this exact engine had been dynoed at over 5000hp with turbos, which is funny because it has never had turbos mounted to it.
There are people walking this earth who believe devel sixteen is real driving car with 5000 hp.
@@hadrian2505 I mean Steve Morris did make a 5000hp engine for them, it just never made it into a production car
@@hadrian2505To be fair, the engine for that did actually exist and produced a fuckton of power, it's just the rest of the car that ended up being fake.
@@claybrinkman533because it’s not possible, having an engine produce 5000hp doesn’t mean you can put it in a car! There is so much more involved to do that.
@@Mark-vn7et Of course it wouldn't go in a 'production' car, but there isn't anything about putting the engine in any other car that could fit it.
I love how Rob isn't stressing about the complexity and instead he's exited by it. Best of luck with assembly!
this was basically a engineering course in college. But the professor can ACTUALLY EXPLAIN THE MATERIAL IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE. I love this channel
Shout out to the owner of this wonderful engine for bringing it to a platform where we all can enjoy and learn about it. 👍
Definitely can confirm. My GTU FC lasted over 300K with minor repair. I really miss that car.
Had 12a Fb thing is prob still running somewhere
My turbo 2 fc my pride and joy blew
Like Rob said Na all good
Turbo = problems
Miss the Mazda days
Even if it's not perfect, this engine is legendary, can't wait to see it run, also taking everything learned from this engine and the 4 rotor, how about a fully inhouse build twin turbo 8 rotor 🤔
Would love to see how he tackles block assembly buckling
The fact that you aren't afraid to go into full detail in your videos at the expense of a little extra time is perfectly suited for the rotary community. Your videos have peeled back the veil on what many people (myself included) thought to be a complex/mysterious engine... only to reveal how simple and powerful they can be. You are the inspiration that will keep the rotary scene alive for years to come
2008? Damn, that engine was designed & make 15 years ago? It's genuinely impressive considering there were limitations on some knowledge & machine.
I honestly want to see Rob Dahm make a 3-bank 3-rotor (3x1) version of this engine himself, a revision 2 of this 12 rotors engine but corrected everything that is wrong.
Yeah this thing was absolutely bleeding edge and incredibly expensive back in the day. Hell, even though the tech has matured in that time, it would probably still cost the same now.
It was 2008, not 1708. Nothing really changed in 15 years.
@TURST67 that's not true. Computing power, sensors, tools, CAD programs have all become much more powerful. As well as flow simulation programs a regular pc can run.
@@TURST67umm, no a ton has changed
@@ImKairyu Didn't he machine it on a pre-WW2 manual milling machine by hand, what a boss...
I can't believe the guy designed this with so few problems first go. Massive engine knowledge and creativity...Genious level stuff really. Clearly it's not going to run a long time as it is presently built but with some design adjustments it looks capable of being a solid functional block. The value of taking it apart, seeing his design and how it started failing is off the charts. In a marine application this engine has serious potential as well.
I think ol dude knew it needed some finicky little touches and you were the perfect finicky little dude to make it happen.
No one else on earth would or could enjoy this engine as much as you are enjoying it right now, you definitely deserve to have it.
This is absolutely fascinating, and I love that you're pointing out a whole lot of things that I wouldn't have thought about. Not too many people understand engines that well, let alone rotary engines, let alone custom-built 12-rotor rotary engines. Great video!
I love how you come across so humble and you give others credit where it’s due. Keep it up Rob
This video is badass, Robs shirt is badass, and this engine is badass. Excited for more of this
Rob it's impressive what you have learned (From a fellow IT guy) who loves Engines. The fact that you do not hide anything is also respected.
should talk to your local industrial bearing supplier R.E the end bearings - there are angular contact ball bearings that can handle relatively high (for a ball type) axial loads, and are normally same overall dimensions as standard ball bearings, and (usually) have a higher ball count due to their construction
That motor in the Continental would be nuts.
The only thing that confused me was when Rob was talking about the engine being out of time with the timing gears. Wouldn't he just machine the splines on the inside of the gear to be 3 degrees offset to the outer teeth to eliminate the issue? assuming all 3 sets of rotors are only connected by those gears? Just a thought. This thing is so fascinating I can't get enough of it, what a machine.
yea that should work.
exactly if the guy building this didn't know that then i don't know how he even got as far as he did.
Lighter gears and maybe use a timing belt
Rob has us wrapped around his finger with the 12 rotor content, lol
When I first saw the 12 rotor a while back, my wish was to see Rob get his hands on it. Holy shit I can't wait to see the learning journey building this and what he's gonna do with it.
All of this tells is that you aren’t going to quit until all 12 are singing together and insane a Mazda box good luck hopefully in 3 years this beast be on the track.🤟🏼
This is one of the few blogs that genuinely makes me feel as if I’ve gained knowledge as well as being entertained
time each bank as a traditional 4 Rotor, then set one bank to 0 degrees, the next 30 degrees out form the first, and the third an additional 30 degrees. every rotor should fire independently and a combustion should occur every 10 degrees of crankshaft rotation. the sound would be absolutely legendary.
they dont fire 3 times per rotation of the e-shaft (crankshaft), they fire 3 times per rotation of the rotor. the rotor spins at a 3:1 ratio to the e-shaft, making one ignition event per rotor per rotation of the e-shaft.
@@Sharkey_t i stand corrected
I JUST CANT HELP but think that this is a problem A.I. was made for! I mean I know you want to do this with your (combined) big ol brain power(s) and good gawd good luck to you but also I would be thinking about whipping Ken Blocks ass with whatever you put that in. Hoonigan vs Time Machine? lol
Talk about chomping at the bit!! I can't WAIT to see that thing scream and it will literally SCREAM when it fires. Oh yeah- twin turbo too- just sayin...
God bless you brother. Best content on the net.
Love that you show and explain all of the technical things on your channel. It's car nerd heaven.
I’m glad you got ahold of this thing….also I’m sorry for all the sleepless nights ahead of you.
Thanks for the infotainment guys :)
This whole clip is a show-off of what a genius and a master Rob Dahm is.
You need to flip one of the drive gears over to get all 3 banks timed perfectly. If each gear is off by 1.5 degrees, say clockwise, then flipping one gear over would make it 1.5 degrees off counterclockwise. A drivve gear mounted backwards would cancel out the timing offset.
I’ve never been a big rotary fan but you talking about the physics and the way this whole system interacts has got my engine/physics geek brain going for wanting more of this build this is going to be epic!
This motor must have torque up the butt.... since it's firing 2 rotors at a time!! This is going to be a neat build indeed, thanks Rob and crew!!
Im speechless… this channel is literal rotary heaven
Its definitely mind blowing seeing this 1 of a kind piece of engineering. The old man who built this is a genius he gets an idea for a motor that he wants to put in a boat of all things and completely re-engineered a rotary engine. Then the 12 rotor rotary engine was born. Now thats how you follow through on an idea 😂😂
Just a quick comment on the teeth timing issue. The problem as you describe it only exists when the gears are identical and on a radial angle divisible by the tooth pitch this issue could already be solved by the gears position relative to each other but could equally still exist. I hope I explained that well enough! :-)
It could also be solved by rotating that left gear a few splines on the crankshaft, as the crankshaft is where timing is set, the gears are just relative to the crankshaft.
Yes I think I am thinking of the same thing.
Do not worry about the teeth of the gear being 3 degrees off. Compensate for that offset by changing the clocking of the e-shaft to the gear to accomodate for that tooth to valley offset.
TDC on the center should have the tooth down, at the same time the left gear that is in direct contact with the center should have it's TDC at a valley pointed down.
So yea, change the clocking of the splines to the teeth of the gear.
Isn’t there more than 3degrees per spline though?
I'm loving this, it's great to see your accrued knowledge coming into play here Rob, you've come so far since I began following you and it's really great to see how far you have come. You're like THE rotary guy now!
Can’t wait. Learning about rotary engines has been cool but learning about a 12 rotor engine is a once in a life time experience
The machining on this motor is so insane for back in 2008. People in 2023 still can't do this style of work. Amazing work man. Stoked to see the rob touches on it
It's not rocket science, just time and money. And then someone that actually wants to do it.
@@niqhttI have to sound like a smart ass, but there is SO much science in this engine. Which is rocket science at its core.
Love that you got this engine and you are bringing it back to life! Tech for days....keep it coming!
how anyone could say that all that man's insane engineering and mill work was fake, is just bonkers...
What gets me is the disassembly. It’s so clean I can’t believe it was run.
Cool commentary Rob. Very interesting issues that have to be solved.
Hey rob, love to see how far youve came. Youve inspired me to get my build going as well as start a youtube channel myself(have yet to start it but getting footage) thank you for being you man! Keep inspiring others.
It needs to go into the Lincoln. Even if only for show.
You're right in that the first thing I thought when I heard about this engine was, "How do you remove all that heat?". And, since I want to see this thing powering a classic Chevy muscle car, I'm still asking that question.
Loving the 12 rotor content. Would be cool to see this engine powering a car, like my benz for example 🤣. Keep em coming rob!
This is fairly crazy, and knowing Rob is crazy enough to take in this challenge only enhances the craziness.
I'm wondering if those stationary gear bolts could be extended to thread into the center the side plates and keep them from bulging. Not sure if they would need to be blind holes or if through holes would work and not damage any of the side seals of the rotor.
When your realize 1 man brought it this far.... not a corporation or a team of engineers. Just one guy who dreamed and built most of this on his own. Mind-blowing. Everything mentioned here was thought out long before this point.
Rob,
I know you have dial indicator. Not trying to tell you to do anything, but I would mount a mag-base. Then you can see how much spring you get back.
Seriously brother. I cant wait to see this motor run. If there is anyone that can do this, it has to be you. Great job explaining everything. To be as 100% technically correct, and bring it to layman's terms.
GOOD LUCK!!!
Regarding the timing of the shafts. This could be changed with the position of a 'key' in the sproket, or even by rotating the cavity slightly in the block. If the key is not aligned centrally with a tooth (or valley) then see/check if the sprocket can be flipped over.
To solve the 3* timing offset in the gearing, would it be beneficial to have another custom gear made with the inner spline for the shaft to account for the 3* offset? seems like you might be tinkering with that idea already from the marks you made on the inner spline circumference. anyways pls throw this 12 rotor in that boat of a Lincoln lol!
They may have already designed this in. If the key is not centrally aligned to a tooth (or valley), the gear may have 'a' and 'b' sides. Ie Flip over to change timing....
it might work to just rotate one of the gears to get to a point where 3* is offset.
dit that to my mazda bg 323 with a BP 1.8l 16v engine when running a ex camshaft on the intake side and had to recount the timing of the camshaft as the gears got different timing marks.
I've been waiting weeks for this update ! :D
You are BRILLIANT! Your tecnichal expertise is second to none.
I know that Piston engine guys normally do cold treatments on parts to prevent breaks warps and stuff like that im curious if Doing that to parts in there would help
6:36 Otherwise called Positive Crankcase Vacuum ports, on any other engine. Typically has lines run to it with a PCV valve that regulates the direction the air flows and helps to prevent oil from going places it shouldn't (like the intake plenum or right behind the throttle body on most cars along with the EGR stuff.... )
Nah man, you're mixing stuff up with wet sump and dry sump engines. On wet sump engines you have a pcv system that creates a vacuum in the engine by attaching a hose from the intake plenum to the crank case (or valve train area, which has a direct connection to the crank case). On a dry sump engine you create that vacuum with the dry sump oil pump and you don't have a pcv system.
I'm beyond excited for this series
Please make a series of this ❤
A 24 rotor powered boat would be incredible. Even if each rotor only managed 110hp the boat would make as much as 6 mercury 450Rs with probably 1/3 the weight.
19:21 a potential solution would be to either have bolts, bolting it down to the aluminium all the way around the inner lip, machined flat with the item installed and sunk from the face by a fraction of a mm. The rotor shouldn't care. OR an intermediate plate that sits on the inside of the aluminium, is bolted and has a machined thread that accepts a ring, which itself is threaded and meant to suck the plate in.
Rob - with the gearing that drives all 3 rows of rotors. Set the centre gear to zero degrees and also the set the gear which is driven by the idler gear to zero degree. With the gear which is half a tooth out (or 3 degree as you say) modify the inside of the Original gear so it sits on the inside of a stub which has a bolt pattern joining both parts together and that is also slotted (a little like slotting cam sprockets).
This will allow you to index your rotor shaft to zero deg and help you hide the 3 deg timing run out you have found in the gearing.
Hope the above makes sense and may be of some use to you. Very informative videos and love to watch them 😎👍. Dave.
The Eunos Cosmo was supposed to come with a V12 for the American market, however this 12 Rotor would be amazing inside a JC cosmo chasis, maybe a cool widebody too. The long hood/engine bay is perfect
It's cool to see mention of a Eunos car, the Cosmo was a pretty cool looking car and this would make it a crazy thing, while I don't have a Cosmo I do have an 800 with the Miller cycle engine, It's beautifully complicated in every way possible, shame it doesn't run properly, I eagerly await the day I figure out what's wrong with it.
I still cannot get over the fact that this was cnc machined in 2008 and with such precision and complexity
This video was so interesting and I loved every minute of it
I've been waiting for more 12 rotor! THANKS ROB
Hi rob just love your enthusiasm for rotary engines I love them and have learnt a lot from watching your videos thank you and keep them coming can’t wait to hear and see that 12 rotor running all the best from the UK
Man I'd bet the guys at haltech are crazy enough to want to help with some bonkers custom solution to this. If I were an engineer there I would definitely be trying to get someone to let me work on some monster frankenstein ECU for this thing.
Passion for your craft is what keeps me coming back to watch everything you do, keep at it and don't stop!
You win the internet Rob Dahm! I'm so excited for the next video!
Actually the best channel on TH-cam! Any day that I open this app and see a video from this man, it’s a good day
If you can figure out all the challenges, my vote is to put in a old Rolls Royce like a silver shadow and drive around like an actual turn of the century supervillain. Love the content!
Well done, you explain a unbelievably complex engine in a way anyone can follow.
Absolute madness. So excited for future videos on this!
Been watching you for a while now and your recent content made it to the new heights. You are really number 1 youtuber on my list now. And the fact you have so much experience... Thank you Rob.
I have been waiting for the update on this engine, I find it extremely interesting, it’s a work of art
Rob is the saviour of all rotaries, can't imagine him doing all this several years ago but I'm happy Rob chooses this path, cause honestly no rotary shops are ever gonna give this level of details to their customers, let alone on TH-cam. Just keep doing you Rob and share what else you know on the engine, looking forward to the firing up on the 12 rotor!!! ❤
I'm excited to see this thing run. I remember seeing videos of it when TH-cam was just starting out.
Best Rob dahm video ever.
I don’t comment much but I couldn’t resist tonight. This will be an epic experience!!! I can’t wait to hear this fire and run!!!! Thank you for all your incredible videos. This is Gas Pump Rob also in Southern California - Rotary enthusiast and old gas and oil collector.
This is something I really want to see and I’m so glad someone is working on the problem, and such a well equipped group of people at that. Thank you
I can't wait to hear that 12 rotor fired up Rob, dope 👊
It's pretty mind blowing just earlier this year I was watching videos on that 12 rotor and now Rob freakin dahm has it.. unreal dude psh
I think I could watch this all day. Live stream it I want to watch
This is going to produce a new sound that will be magnificent!
I appreciate the engine creator for handing his dream to someone that can keep it alive!
That’s a beautiful engine. Thank you Rob for such a great description of what needs to be done. Impressive!
Damn, watched it all and still reeling. Can’t wait.
Most anticipated first fire up video ever!!
I can't wait to see you fix and put this beast together so glad you are a smart guy
I just gotta say, this is the most excited I e ever been for a TH-cam project, not just for cars, but for pretty much anything, super stoked for how this behemoth performs after all the TLC is taken care of
You’re such a humble man and I really appreciate that about you. A lot of us could learn.
THIS is what we expect from you guys. Just WOW!!!!
How are you able to explain something so complex.... and I actually understand! You continue to impress. I can't wait to see what becomes of this !
Rob is so humble it awesome
At 13:25 A lot is being made of the 3 degrees timing misalignment of those gears, but the gear to shaft interface is splined. You can tell the spline count from the shot in the video, but I'd reckon that it is 120~ spline so that you can clock the splines to account for the 3 degrees and also play with shaft phasing.
love this series. More please
Rob, I love the way you think, and how you cut apart every single possible problem with that engine. Impressive is what it is.
Fantastic job Mr dahm! Really enjoyed this one 👌
Thank you Rotor Dady for giving us the three way weve always dreamed of.