Vendée Globe IMOCA 2020 Boat Tech Design Analysis Part 1 - Bow shapes & Foils
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2020
- Bit of a departure from cycling, but many principles are shared. This is just a few thoughts from a non-sailor on the IMOCA class boats. Let me know if you are keen for Part 2 - Aerodynamics. There was just too much for one video.
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
He finally remembered his TH-cam password!
Recovery message came sealed in a bottle
This channel could totally blow up IMO. The content quality is way beyond the norm. I ride bikes but if I had the money I’d sail too. The ultimate machines IMO. So pure.
join a sailing club.
@@aaron___6014 Cheers Aaron. Planning on doin that when my daughter gets a little older.
The ultimate machine is man powered. Stop talking all your nonsense.
Yes, awesome to see you cover sailing.
Not exactly the video I expected to see after 2 months, but still great to hear you talk about anything engineering related, even though I've never been on a sailboat in my life.
Cheers. Try it, it doesn't have to be expensive. The best days at see are on someone elses boat ;). Its very pure.
This was excellent, thank you.
Hope you do Pt2, really enjoyed this.
Its up!
Great analysis of the vendee boats. The vendee now sits nicely in my daily schedule for a 4 hourly checkup in the place of the three grand tours which have proven to be mega exciting all summer and autumn. Let's have another boat video in a month.
Same. Nice little thing to fill that gap
Armel Tripon, skipper of the occitane said his boat is more comfortable than others, that has been explained and confirmed also by Sam Manuard his designer, the reason is the boat fly closer to the water than other foil boats, which is allowed by the nose pointing up and wider front.
The end result is the boat has a more constant speed and does not slam down as much as the other boats. Its average speed is higher down wind in 15-20 knots wind.
The boat is far behind due to a hook problem, Tripon made a u turn heading to Portugal before finding a solution and turning back in the race again, right now occitane is much faster than the boats around him... without surprise.
Too many hook problems! A real shame for Tripon.
Great info what boat have you got I wonder ?
A lot of good thinking here. Maybe it's banned but I've been wondering about little wings (aka foils, hydroplanes) at the bow to lift the bow a bit when it ploughs into a wave. Possibly hinged so that the wings don't push the bow down if the angle gets too steep
Love the video, scratching the surface but you have to start somewhere. Not sure how it will go down with cyclist. I am first a sailor and then a cyclist to keep in shape, currently round. The other thing that needs to be considered slamming wave after wave shipping water across the deck. Is keeping the mast in the air, they have a habit of not decelerating quite as fast as the hull so do fall down as a result. I took up land yachting have sailed lots of different types of boats. High multiples of apparent wind typically sailing at 80kph. The really crazy stuff see DN ice yachts. Keep up the good work
That's why you need a nice light rig! Preferably with a massive spherical bearing at the bottom, to really limit those decel/inertial moments. I love land yachts. Effing crazy things!
@@PeakTorque on my channel I captured a race with a 360 camera. I am a lot quicker these days when we are allowed to race again.
Cycling, sailing, and engineering. We'd be great friends.
I've got a question regarding spokes, particularly carbon spokes. Would it be possible to make these out of almost pure UD carbon fiber with no epoxy matrix? Given that spokes are always in tension.
Does the epoxy not bond different fibers together?
Saying that if the spoke is made of long strands of carbon you could try.
It would be a nightmare to set up though and very sharp edges.
@@cathallawlor989 That's fair, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe they could be coated in some sort of clear coat to keep them bundled and ever so slightly rigid? Or braided like those UHMW spokes?
Mavic had wheels with carbon spokes laced radialy on the nds in the rear wheel. Now a new series of mtb whells came out with all carbon spokes by Gulo Composites. The problem is that those spokes can't bend (where crossing with others) and can't be twisted so you have to hold both ends while trueing the wheel to prevent that.
In theory if the loads were purely tensile it could work. There's a company out there using pure Kevlar or dyneema braid with no epoxy and it works. I wouldn't use it for radial spokes mind! Practically, without epoxy they would be a nightmare to handle, assemble and be too fragile. You rely on the epoxy to transfer small shear stresses through the bundle. It also plays a big part in impact toughness. Cheers
Hull speed? Correct me if I'm wrong, but these boat don't have hull speeds. They ate ate all about planning.
Occitane: compare with story of David Raison, naval architect, 2010 winner Mini Transat 6.50 davidraison.com
-on a downwind run, it flies
-I don't know the percentages, but IMOCA boats spend a lot of time sailing on their sides. I believe Raison also had the idea of developing a shape which included that possibility.
Update on the engineering of the IMOCA class - build a boat so extreme that it breaks in two and endangers the life of the skipper.
People are criticising my comments on marginal gains saying safety is too important and these IMOCAs are hardy RTW boats. Well. They clearly aren't!
@@PeakTorque there is no boat that you cant break in a open design class, If you want to create a boat that doesn't break then you look what they did with the VOR65 class
no damage on the boats but they are fat pigs compared to the imoca class
Hitting something with a foil is like hitting something with the keel. Make foils as sturdy as keels.
relyablility ans sturdiness over weight in endurance racing is not a bad compromise
Would argue that alot of the drawbacks of the scow bow design ethos are negated by the addition of foils , anecdotally the foils reduce slamming quite a lot.
Also the foils add tonnes of righting moment which seems like a huge factor in their design, at least in the last generation.
Still trying to find out what's up with LOCCITANE. For such a cool and expensive boat, their PR and media presence is terrible. If i was the sponsor I'd be having some very stern words with the team.
These boats must be a nightmare to sail downwind in a seaway with the apparent wind all over the place. Pitchpole seems like it could be a real problem. Perhaps driving off in a gust to stall sails works to regain control. The problem of hitting the odd refrigerator or container has always been there in ocean racing. This has got to be a more challenging engineering problem than any bike frame! Spare foils and sacrificial foil mountings?
Great comment. I think that's the way to go. Sacrificial mount that won't damage the substructure. It's crazy how many boats aren't carrying spare rudders or foils. I seem to have jinxed Charal literally 1 hour after releasing this video he headed back to the dock for foil/rudder repairs.
Sailing these boats downwind is what they are designed to do. Ever heard the phrase running before a storm. The sea state is following and the breeze is not as bad etc. Yachts that sink in a storm trend to be stationery and overwhelmed by the sea, so moving with the waves is best..
As to taking spare foils there is no point the are huge and need a crane and flat water the be fitted. Best make them so the snap off an don't damage the hull.
I do know someone who has sailed on Hugo Boss with Alex and I asked how the foils made the ride. He said it turned it into a complete vomit comet.
@@PeakTorque I don't know about IMOCA, but often multihulls have "crush boxes" behind foils.
@@PeakTorque you cant mount anything on the sea that size on your own so no point crying spare
@@Croasail Pip Hare changed her rudder
How did you come up with the 3 metres cubed estimate of water on deck? It doesn't feel super plausible to me considering how aerated the water is in that scenario and the actual depth of water we see coming on deck in videos, even in the worst conditions
I can say from experience handling sails on the foredeck that when the nose goes into a wave, the water is green (or black at night) over the deck, and you can be floating above the boat holding on to the sail.
@@antonomaseapophasis5142 Fair!
These things and those people are entirely mad. I can't even imagine the stress and discomfort these sailors are under for 2.5 to 3 months. It's Chinese water torture turned up to max.
I think you are overestimating the flying capacity of the boats and the use of foils. They don't foil that much while racing in the vendee , Yes we Cam is showing similar boats speeds on an older boat without foils in the windy conditions , especially now in the south. The foils are there mostly to get better Rm in Light to medium conditions and to give some lift to the boats but not total flight. Also there is no point making the foils so heavy and protected to withstand impact. Do a calculation on how much more structure and weight you would need to add to have a system that is safe from impacts and then tell me how much time that is gonna cost you in the vendee compared to a boat without foils
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