Please note: In this video I say Hornby proposed a Class 86. This was to be made from the old Class 81, however Hornby DID make a Class 86 in 1988, however this was a completely new tooling.
I never realised how many strange decisions Hornby has made over the years, I mean, Rovex bought out Meccano/Hornby Dublo in 1964 and they made a wonderful outside framed 08, so they had the tooling, likewise the Metro-Vik, and tbh they only have such a wide range of products now by buying out Airfix/Mainline and Lima, thus acquiring all the tooling, and I have been a big fan of the company. I no longer can afford to purchase new locomotives, in particular, from any manufacturer and I have made a decision to stop my collectors club membership as Hornby do not have a customer phone line, we cannot but simple things like replacement traction tyres from them, their whole existence seem to be pointless anymore, £50 for 40 plus year old tooled 0-4-0 tank engines? WTF!!
I know! With the Hornby Club Membership, I joined in 2021 and got the loco included in my £30 joining fee, however, for 2022, I had to pay £17 on top of that £30 for the loco! And furthermore, the 2021 loco was fine, but the 2022 one came covered in oil and with the smokebox door on wonky! I wish I'd known before I'd renewed it, otherwise I wouldn't have!
Yes, initially surprised that they did not add some of the Dublo models into their range like the 08 but but they must have had their reasons. Maybe more expensive to manufacture so offloading them to their sister company Tri-ang Wrenn as a friendly competitor was a shrewd move. If I remember correctly, they did take a couple of the Hornby Dublo lineside models like the tunnel into the main Hornby range.
An interesting, informative and neat vid. I am a bit of a Hornby / Triang fan as my first ever trainset (late 1960s) was a Triang set. The only thing I would say is that perhaps a pic of the model or if not, the real loco or a drawing of all the locos you mentioned for us uneducated colonials (Aussie here) on British railways. 😊
Interesting to see how many abandonned projects later came back, either from them or from other makers. One you missed was a curious little 'kneeling cow' engine, a la Snowdon Mountain Rlwy, built around a Nellie chassis. It got as far as a perspex prototype, but someone realised its sale potential was too limited.
As I understand, Hornby considered reissuing the old Hornby Dublo Co-Bo with a more detailed plastic body, but decided against it because the original was a poor seller.
I am sure hornby dublo had a metrovick in its quiver around the time it merged with triang. I remember seeing it in the combined catalogue and wanting it because triang only produced a Brush type 2 (cl31) and the metrovick looked more impressive. However my layout was triang and the dublo stuff was 3 rail and had different couplings iirc, so the cl31 it was to be.
Interesting with several proposals I never knew about. Would have been better with a spoken narrative, allowing the viewer more time to study the models. Photos of the real-life prototypes would have helped where no mock-up were produced.
I think its safer for Hornby to do slightly unusual steam models (which they are doing) as the diesel and electric field has become over-competed. Although Hornby prices are verging on the ridiculous I still hope they survive.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 As a % of the average wage its quite the opposite within my life time, but maybe you are only talking about your disposable income rather than average people. 1990s Lima £25 loco 0.2% average wage, 2020s Bachmann Class 47 DCC Sound £260 1% average UK wage. Quality has gone up but I think prices have risen faster than quality. Also attendant with the increased complexity the failure rate has gone up from about 2% 1990s to 8% present (about 100 in each sample). A simple comparison is with Lima Class 59 selling for about £35 in 1994 and the almost exactly the same Hornby Class 66 sells for £74 in 2021. The biggest reason I think for prices rising even ahead of the quality is that the price of something is not related to what it costs to make but by what the market will bear. The baby boomers have now reached a fairly prosperous retirement so there is plenty of demand.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Average wage June 2022 office of national statistics is £611, £31,772pa not £733, £38,116pa. However if you argue that a Hornby Railroad in 1977 is broadly similar to 2022 I would agree with you. On the Hornby website certain models were selling at £97 and a nicer one on Hattons for £87.50p. Your £120.99 model has TTS sound! better than anything in 1977. I was comparing Lima in 1990s, which had better value than the Railroad range, with Bachmann deluxe £260 model. So we can say that like for like prices are similar but the much better models of today are much more expensive.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 I used to trade websites but then TH-cam started banning posts with links. Pity that would resolve things quickly. "Figure 1: Average weekly earnings for total pay was £611 and regular pay was £568 in June 2022, Average weekly earnings in Great Britain, seasonally adjusted, January 2000 to June 2022. Office for National Statistics "Average weekly earnings in Great Britain: August 2022 What was your source? "Making the point equally clearly" Not really you are talking a 10% change over 45 years.
The Deans goods was actually an Airfix model that went via Mainline and ended up in Hornbys range. Shame about the class 17 , that would have been a good model . Had to wait for the Heljan model which runs like the prototype !
@@lukeslocomotives . No , ref the Clayton, I got one when it came out and the motor failed . Common fault so Heljan sent out replacement chassis a year later , but it still runs very slowly . To get the body off you have to remove the buffers and associated springs . One of the most annoying and disappointing locos I have . I genuinely think the Hornby one might have been better
Fans of the Baby Deltic 1:30 might like to know that they can see the 'real thing' next weekend at Barrow Hill, Chesterfield as the Baby Deltic Project's D5910 loco will be on display.
Triang never ever made a model of an English Electric class 08 "Gronk"!! The Triang / Triang-Hornby R.152 was a model of the 1938 Armstrong-Whitworth inside framed "Jackshaft" 0-6-0 diesel locomotive, albeit without the jackshaft & with the centre axle in the wrong position. However, the body shell is 100% accurate, even down to the radiator, exhaust spout & cab, with scale drawings.
@@lukeslocomotives And it was a blankety blank poor model too - it took their standardised 'near enough' policy to extremes, and really got them hammered in the model press. Obsolete 'Princess' cylinders and valve gear, and a Fowler tender!
@@johndavies1090 but it was a child's model - hornby then were not aiming for dead on accuracy and while the ridiculousness of some of the make do policy does detract from the model by today's standards, what is a young child to know as it goes barrelling around a layout?
That was a different model. That was a new tooled model in 1988, I am on about a proposed late 1970s early 1980s model, which they intended to make using their old Class 81.
@@lukeslocomotives well 88, 80's - i get your point and i can't see how they would've reused the triang tooling and motor bogie - simpler to build new like they did
Tbh any GWR, LMS, Southern or Electric engine i would not purchase. I have a Hornby Dublo class 28. A die cast model and probably from accounts Ive read the worst seller Hornby Dublo ever made.
@@lukeslocomotives ive got the book about the History of Hornby from its start as Meccano , the class 28 is mentioned as the worst selling model in the book.
@@lukeslocomotives i think my version is the History of Hornby Railways but i will check soon. My 1938 clockwork Freight Set No.2 is mentioned in it too. M
Please note: In this video I say Hornby proposed a Class 86. This was to be made from the old Class 81, however Hornby DID make a Class 86 in 1988, however this was a completely new tooling.
That was a really good video! I enjoyed how it is something different which you normally post! Keep it up!
Thank you!
I never realised how many strange decisions Hornby has made over the years, I mean, Rovex bought out Meccano/Hornby Dublo in 1964 and they made a wonderful outside framed 08, so they had the tooling, likewise the Metro-Vik, and tbh they only have such a wide range of products now by buying out Airfix/Mainline and Lima, thus acquiring all the tooling, and I have been a big fan of the company. I no longer can afford to purchase new locomotives, in particular, from any manufacturer and I have made a decision to stop my collectors club membership as Hornby do not have a customer phone line, we cannot but simple things like replacement traction tyres from them, their whole existence seem to be pointless anymore, £50 for 40 plus year old tooled 0-4-0 tank engines? WTF!!
I know! With the Hornby Club Membership, I joined in 2021 and got the loco included in my £30 joining fee, however, for 2022, I had to pay £17 on top of that £30 for the loco! And furthermore, the 2021 loco was fine, but the 2022 one came covered in oil and with the smokebox door on wonky! I wish I'd known before I'd renewed it, otherwise I wouldn't have!
Yes, initially surprised that they did not add some of the Dublo models into their range like the 08 but but they must have had their reasons. Maybe more expensive to manufacture so offloading them to their sister company Tri-ang Wrenn as a friendly competitor was a shrewd move. If I remember correctly, they did take a couple of the Hornby Dublo lineside models like the tunnel into the main Hornby range.
Hornby and Lima both released the Class 52 Western class diesel around the same time...
Great video! Could you look into the platinum train set with the mallard and flying Scotsman?
Thanks! I could do!
An interesting, informative and neat vid. I am a bit of a Hornby / Triang fan as my first ever trainset (late 1960s) was a Triang set.
The only thing I would say is that perhaps a pic of the model or if not, the real loco or a drawing of all the locos you mentioned for us uneducated colonials (Aussie here) on British railways. 😊
Thank you, I am a fan of Hornby Tri-Ang too. Yeah, I could only find pics of the actual model for some locos, and thanks for the feedback!
The fact that hornby were going to make a SR Z class and BR class 23 and cancelled it is kinda upsetting
I know
Interesting to see how many abandonned projects later came back, either from them or from other makers. One you missed was a curious little 'kneeling cow' engine, a la Snowdon Mountain Rlwy, built around a Nellie chassis. It got as far as a perspex prototype, but someone realised its sale potential was too limited.
Thanks for letting me know John, I'll have to look into that one!
To have a possible cheap City class would have been a dream for me, i own a Bachmann one but man that was expensive
I know, I wish they'd actually released it too
As I understand, Hornby considered reissuing the old Hornby Dublo Co-Bo with a more detailed plastic body, but decided against it because the original was a poor seller.
This what hurt the model industry the cost, still is.
Bit of an interesting one this!
I am sure hornby dublo had a metrovick in its quiver around the time it merged with triang. I remember seeing it in the combined catalogue and wanting it because triang only produced a Brush type 2 (cl31) and the metrovick looked more impressive. However my layout was triang and the dublo stuff was 3 rail and had different couplings iirc, so the cl31 it was to be.
City of Truro was around in the sixties, was it not?
That'll be the Kitmaster kit
The comment about tooling costs is interesting and worth considering when people complain about the use of old molds!
Where did you get the photos?
Here, www.keymodelworld.com/article/hornby-models-were-never-made
And also in the Hornby Book Of Trains from 2020
Interesting with several proposals I never knew about. Would have been better with a spoken narrative, allowing the viewer more time to study the models. Photos of the real-life prototypes would have helped where no mock-up were produced.
Ok, thank you!
I think its safer for Hornby to do slightly unusual steam models (which they are doing) as the diesel and electric field has become over-competed. Although Hornby prices are verging on the ridiculous I still hope they survive.
Me too Alan, that Z Class would be amazing to see!
@@neiloflongbeck5705 As a % of the average wage its quite the opposite within my life time, but maybe you are only talking about your disposable income rather than average people. 1990s Lima £25 loco 0.2% average wage, 2020s Bachmann Class 47 DCC Sound £260 1% average UK wage. Quality has gone up but I think prices have risen faster than quality. Also attendant with the increased complexity the failure rate has gone up from about 2% 1990s to 8% present (about 100 in each sample). A simple comparison is with Lima Class 59 selling for about £35 in 1994 and the almost exactly the same Hornby Class 66 sells for £74 in 2021. The biggest reason I think for prices rising even ahead of the quality is that the price of something is not related to what it costs to make but by what the market will bear. The baby boomers have now reached a fairly prosperous retirement so there is plenty of demand.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Average wage June 2022 office of national statistics is £611, £31,772pa not £733, £38,116pa. However if you argue that a Hornby Railroad in 1977 is broadly similar to 2022 I would agree with you. On the Hornby website certain models were selling at £97 and a nicer one on Hattons for £87.50p. Your £120.99 model has TTS sound! better than anything in 1977. I was comparing Lima in 1990s, which had better value than the Railroad range, with Bachmann deluxe £260 model. So we can say that like for like prices are similar but the much better models of today are much more expensive.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 I used to trade websites but then TH-cam started banning posts with links. Pity that would resolve things quickly.
"Figure 1: Average weekly earnings for total pay was £611 and regular pay was £568 in June 2022, Average weekly earnings in Great Britain, seasonally adjusted, January 2000 to June 2022. Office for National Statistics "Average weekly earnings in Great Britain: August 2022
What was your source?
"Making the point equally clearly" Not really you are talking a 10% change over 45 years.
interesting video
Thanks!
The Deans goods was actually an Airfix model that went via Mainline and ended up in Hornbys range. Shame about the class 17 , that would have been a good model . Had to wait for the Heljan model which runs like the prototype !
I know!
@@lukeslocomotives . No , ref the Clayton, I got one when it came out and the motor failed . Common fault so Heljan sent out replacement chassis a year later , but it still runs very slowly . To get the body off you have to remove the buffers and associated springs . One of the most annoying and disappointing locos I have . I genuinely think the Hornby one might have been better
Yeah, heard that with many Heljan models. Hopefully you find a way to fix it though!
Fans of the Baby Deltic 1:30 might like to know that they can see the 'real thing' next weekend at Barrow Hill, Chesterfield as the Baby Deltic Project's D5910 loco will be on display.
Cool!
Triang never ever made a model of an English Electric class 08 "Gronk"!!
The Triang / Triang-Hornby R.152 was a model of the 1938 Armstrong-Whitworth inside framed "Jackshaft" 0-6-0 diesel locomotive, albeit without the jackshaft & with the centre axle in the wrong position. However, the body shell is 100% accurate, even down to the radiator, exhaust spout & cab, with scale drawings.
I wish the City of Truro was released
They would have periced it out of reach
Me too, but as Kevin said it would be a fortune
@@lukeslocomotives I agree, but the Bachmann one is good, again, at a price!
the made a lord nelson loco - R154 'Sir Dinadan' This was in 77-79 i believe
That was a King Arthur
@@lukeslocomotives And it was a blankety blank poor model too - it took their standardised 'near enough' policy to extremes, and really got them hammered in the model press. Obsolete 'Princess' cylinders and valve gear, and a Fowler tender!
I know! And with those smaller wheels, it looked more like an S15 than a King Arthur!
@@johndavies1090 but it was a child's model - hornby then were not aiming for dead on accuracy and while the ridiculousness of some of the make do policy does detract from the model by today's standards, what is a young child to know as it goes barrelling around a layout?
I can understand the 87 being planned , Lima beat them to it in the early 1980s
Yeah
Hornby's class 86 was always in the range from the 70's onward, very basic model though.
Yeah they later tooled one, which was released in 1988. But about a decade before that they were going to make one out of their Class 81
Hornby cancelled the Fat Controller in 1986.
Strane case of Hornby " going off the rails " as to speak .....
Yeah lol 🤣
They made a class 86 - R360
That was a different model. That was a new tooled model in 1988, I am on about a proposed late 1970s early 1980s model, which they intended to make using their old Class 81.
@@lukeslocomotives well 88, 80's - i get your point and i can't see how they would've reused the triang tooling and motor bogie - simpler to build new like they did
Tbh any GWR, LMS, Southern or Electric engine i would not purchase. I have a Hornby Dublo class 28. A die cast model and probably from accounts Ive read the worst seller Hornby Dublo ever made.
Oh dear, that may be the reason as to why Hornby also didn't make one around 20 years later
@@lukeslocomotives ive got the book about the History of Hornby from its start as Meccano , the class 28 is mentioned as the worst selling model in the book.
The 2020 Hornby Book Of Trains?
@@lukeslocomotives i think my version is the History of Hornby Railways but i will check soon. My 1938 clockwork Freight Set No.2 is mentioned in it too. M