Episode 4: Sand / Land Rover LR3 / Air Vs. Coil Shoot-Out / Military Mobility
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มี.ค. 2022
- Episode FOUR of this eight episode series compares two 2008 Land Rover LR3 HSE’s, one with the stock air suspension against an aftermarket coil conversion.
In this episode we take both LR3's out to the sand to test their performance. Join Military Mobility founder, Brian Ribera (former Navy SEAL and Master Training Specialist that has conducted mobility operations in over 40 countries) and our lead instructor Webb (Camel Trophy participant, Land Rover driving instructor, and current military Special Forces trainer) as they drive both vehicles through the sand! They also teach a class in vehicle recovery using traction boards.
Be sure to subscribe to our TH-cam channel and get notifications when a new episode drops each week!
Military Mobility is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization specializing in off-road expeditions and resiliency training for veterans and civilians.
Learn more or sponsor a veteran at: www.militarymobility.com
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It’s cool you guys keep dropping these disco videos! I just picked up a 2006 SE this week and super stoked to build her up. These are the best discovery videos on YT, keep on making them!👏
THANK YOU CHANCE CANNON!!! ❤️🙌👍
Congrats on your rig; they are so much fun!!
I had 1994 discovery which drove with lots of stability and control on the road. After getting my P38 with air suspension, it definitely did not have that feel. the P38 was just all over the place with stability and control. It was like riding on a boat. I had to get use to the ride but for some reason, it always felt like I was floating around on the highway. After switching to coils on the P38, it was much more stable, which I liked but the air suspension took the bumps much more easier over the coils. However for my purpose, the coils would be the better option since i'm a city driver not pulling anything with exception to snow days. I can raise the hight and run over any snow Hight without worry.
Absolutely, your discussion reveals that in the end there is no clear “winner” or better system. It’s all what your specific application is and what your looking for as far as maintenance and risk.
Great video guys 👍 BUT I'm surprised you didn't talk about tyre pressure especially on sand, as it makes a HUGE difference.
Hello there! Yes there’s a lot to cover and we mainly concentrated on what was different about the suspensions; not the same, but it would have been nice to explore and have a general discussion about tire pressure. Thanks for the suggestion and I’m sure we’ll miss some more details in presentation (This is our first time doing this!) As an aside; Both vehicles were running the same tire pressure on the same exact tires for a fair comparison. Thanks again and we appreciate your support! 🙌
The reason he liked the coil better is two fold.
1. The coil sits lower vs the air. Should have put the air into standard mode for lower center of gravity
2. The air shocks could be older with less dampening vs newer coils.
Probably a combination of ride height selection on the airs and maybe oil dampening on newer coils. My guess is with new air shocks + medium ride height all that bounce would have gone away along with the tippy ride at speed.
The air should have equaled the coil.
Bob, how’s it going. Love that your into our series! Great point on the air shocks being older vs the coils (which were about 4 years old but the air shocks were older, only so much we can do gnat’s ass comparison as a non-profit). The traditional OEM standard mode height would not work at all with the tire size we have so we had custom calibrated the air springs height with the GAP tool to be the lowest we could get it without rubbing. But all great input as to why certain conditions may create these sensations
Thank you for your service and these great videos that you put out. I am new to off roading and have been putting together recovery gear kit. The traction pads I purchased were "go treads". They are able to be folded up and packed away. Would be interesting to see or hear feedback on how they stack up to the others you have talked about.
Hi Toolman; off-roading is tons of fun, all kinds of adventure to be had solo, with friends and family, you name it!
Quick though is anything you have to help with traction is helpful. I’ve seen the fold up variants work well at times and other times the setbacks I’ve seen where the folding varieties end up wrapping the tire rather than giving traction, especially on vehicles with higher crawl ratios or abrupt torque such as a manual transmission letting the clutch out suddenly. So the famous “it depends” answer!
Are those the coil over conversion with the 2” lift or just standard height coil conversion? Was thinking of a coil over with 2” lift and 1” spacers to handle my tires that i have now with Johnson Rod 3” lift. Great videos…thanks for running all these test. #joegoroving.
Hi, be sure to watch all the comparison vids; we lay out the exact model number of this coil conversion. It’s the AB struts paired with OME HD coils for a claimed 2” lift.
What brand 1” spacers are you referring to? … sounds very interesting.
We’re running the Johnson Rods 3.0 on our air LR3.
Thanks for the support Joe! 🙌
Any chance the extra 200+ lbs on the nose of of the coil-sprung LR3 led to the feeling of less bounce relative to the air-sprung unit? Like how a pickup actually drives better with the bed weighted down.
I won’t discount it and you are absolutely correct about the pickup scenario; we have a F450 and this is definitely the case. I will say though that most front coil trucks I’ve driven (both pickup trucks and off-road rigs) with steel bumpers and winches bounce more because the weight is forward of the axis so it extenuates bumps instead of dampening them. With weight in the pickup bed, the weight is more dispersed by the steel bed which sits on top of the rear coil or leaf spring so it dampens it and causes less bounce. That being said the rigs although VERY similar are not the same due to the bumper/ winch and awning. We’re doing the best we can to judge objectively and from our vast experience the coils felt better in the sand. Still worth it to point out the air wasn’t bad, just the coils felt better.
Fantastic video! At 11:50ish you talk about defeating the terrain response system by using the brake pedal to illuminate the brake lights. Isn't there a switch on the LR3, to turn the system off? Or do you prefer the touching the brake pedal? Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The dash controls on the LR3 allow you to turn off the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC, this button is on the center dash) and the Hill Descent Control (HDC, this button is low on console in between seats). These are not the Terrain Response System (the dial that you select normal, sand, rock, etc) We we’re in Sand Mode so (the LR3 adjusts certain parameters on engine torque, brake input, etc) we were discussing how to trick the computer to maximize performance.
Hello and thank you very much Joe!! The dash controls on the LR3 allow you to turn off the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC, this button is on the center dash) and the Hill Descent Control (HDC, this button is low on console in between seats). These are not the Terrain Response System (the dial that you select normal, sand, rock, etc) We we’re in Sand Mode so (the LR3 adjusts certain parameters on engine torque, brake input, etc) we were discussing how to trick the computer to maximize performance.
on the air, I wonder if the feel from the Air Spings is due to the lift. You are achieving more lift by adding additional air pressure. If you did the SYA or the factory height run, I wonder IF there would be a noticeable difference.
Hello and thanks for joining the conversation. The air springs “feel” great, it’s just that the sounds felt slightly better to us (in sand). Your point is well taken about a stock tire size with a neutral factory shock height which possibly could result in a different ride quality (when it is lowered 2” from where we have it). The reality for us is we wouldn’t want to run stock size tires for a variety of reasons and feel out tire selection is very tasteful and representative of what many owners run or would consider running.
Was the stock air vehicle terrain setting set to sand mode? Is the air vehicle on a lift or stock height? Thanks for the good videos.
Hello and thanks for joining the conversation. Yes both vehicles were set to sand mode during the testing while driven by both drivers. And yes of course the air vehicle has been raised to provide clearance for the oversized tires and the coil has the HD lifted coils to provide clearance for the exact same size tires. Thanks very much for checking in with us! 🙌
How old are the air struts ? You've got later coils and dmapers on the coil vehicle - if your dampers in the air struts are for 2008 too they're gonna bounce a bit more because they'll be closer to the end of their life
Hi Andy and thanks for joining the conversation. The coils have been on the grey LR3 for about 10 years so yes they have about a 4 year head start abasing the air suspension. We’ve had others comment on this and it’s a valid point; however I’ll note we are a veteran non-profit focused on suicide prevention and increasing their health and wellness; so we’re doing the best we can with what we’ve got to drive awareness towards our mission! 👍🇺🇸
@@MilitaryMobility it wasn't a criticism at all just an observation. It's one of the problems I think with both the air and coil setup is that it's pretty difficult to get really good shocks. Standard ones are ok but there's not the range of really good aftermarket ones out there that there are for other vehicles.
Suppose you need new dampers but airbags are still good? Can you replace just the damper? Also when you're in off road height do you gain wheel travel? Probably not, just wishfull thinking on my part. While we're dreaming I would be willing to drop a couple grand for a system that when you increased height you also benefited by a longer wheel travel. Wouldn't mind electric rebound and compression dampening with ability to set up front and rear independently. Throw in ability to adjust air bags so softer spring with off road mode and a stiffer low height adjustment for on road "sport" driving and reset button so you wouldn't be afraid to play with it. There's probably lots of issues why my dream suspension is impractical. Swaybar, cv joint wear, cost and liability. Does LR3 even need a sway bar? The stability control feature could make the swaybar unnecessary I would think. Sorry, I only made it through one year of engineering school. I found the computer that took up most of the engineering building basement and the user interface, keypunch cards, kinda intimidating. Back then the alternative available to me was the trusty slide rule!
You guys could easily lower the air suspension height and get the same sporty feeling..
…the normal ride height the air LR3 is set at is almost 1” higher than the coil and prevents the constant rubbing of tires when on the highway at speed or on the trail. We’ve found this to be an ideal height and wish the coils would be this height too! All that being said the coils had a bit firmer feeling but we understand your point. The overall goal of the series was to have fun and compare the two systems for those considering a swap.
The air LR3 wa way too high. The high center of gravity over sand would have unsettled it. You need to test at the same height as the coils. There is a reason why Land Rover programmed the vehicle to lower when going fast.
Our air LR3 at normal ride height sits about 1” higher than the coil LR3 does, that is the lowest we could get it without scraping the crap out of the 32” tires in the wheel wells, which the air sprung one does quite regularly. Our air LR3 still lowers at speed if it’s in extended mode, which it never was during the sand testing.