Please read this. I eventually learned that this solenoid is always at risk in this model machine. If the solenoid is left in the energized state for too long (some hours), it may well burn up like this one. The bypass circuit was intended to reduce the risk of burnout under these conditions. The original coil was being protected by the bypass circuit and burned when the bypass circuit failed, probably because the micro-switch was not triggered. I've learned this the hard way - you don't need to. If you have one of these machines, you need to understand the risk around this solenoid. One option is to disconnect the solenoid and make selections by pushing both selection buttons at the same time. Jim.
Jim Lindenas I have a 65 seeburg Electra. It was working fine the other day. Put in a coin make the selection the keys do not return (only when the release button is pushed). The solenoid will remain closed after selection is pushed and will only open when The release button is pressed. The machine will scan constantly and not make a selection.
Tormat selector latch bar solenoid. Back when I rebuilt my Seeburg AY160 I found that someone added a jumper in the single price unit for "Free play" that kept that solenoid always on whenever power was applied to the jukebox. Wow that's a fire waiting to happen! Luckily my solenoid wasn't burned up.
You don't need the coil at all... just clip the wires that lead to it, and press the letter and number together for each selection. No latch bar solenoid ever needed again.
I have a Seeburg 201 jukebox and am trying to get the two large rectangular selector cable connectors off. Do I just yank them off. Wiggling them and pulling doesn't seem to get them disconnected. I hate to pull much harder as I'm afraid I'll break them. Is there a catch or a secret to disconnecting them? Thanks for any help you all can provide. Vince from North Carolina
Hey Jim - thanks for the video. On that replacement solenoid, I guess it's best to get the one with the highest resistance? I would assume that means it's the least likely to have a windings short of its own, right?
hi Jim, A quick question on a problem I am having with my Wurlitzer 2300 selector. Ok , the basic problem is when you turn it on its showing a lit select light, no selections can be made and there are 2 caps. on top in the center of the selection row of buttons between the record played counter and the selection buttons that get red hot when the machine is on. You can trip the mech. in the back and the machine will pick and play a record perfectly. What I think is going on is the coil for the reset bar (for the buttons) is getting power and keeping it locked in the energized position. As far as I can tell the entire Juke is 100% original and had worked perfect for years. It is also set up for free play. You don't live in the St.Louis area do you ? thanks in advance Jeff
Nice video. I am working on a 222 that just plays every single record. Can't find the prob yet, but the manual says reseat the memory connector. I reseated both big connectors, but nope...
@@CowSaysMooMoo I actually don't remember now if I fixed it or not- Thanks for writing back! It might have been the popularity meter, can't remember =)
If that solenoid is operating on AC, it may have short circuit turns, which causes it to act like a transformer, and thus massively overheat. I suspect that it will have shorted turns. The previous guy's 'hack job' was to reduce that current to a reasonable level.
***** I agree that there could be shorted turns but even so, it could be that the coil will still perform satisfactorily if we're lucky. I returned the selector to service today primarily to see if it worked properly and it appears to be doing so. During normal operation, the coil remains energized until two song selections are completed. That can take 15 seconds with a dithering patron. I put the unit into the selection state, energizing the coil and left it there while measuring it's temperature rise with an infrared thermometer. The temperature quickly rose and reached 65C before I de-energized it at about 15 seconds. 65C is not too hot but it seemed it had lots more to go and I think it might reach 80 if left indefinitely. A patron can drop in a quarter, make one selection and walk away leaving the coil energized. During the initial incident, the coil smoked in seconds. So I think I have restored just as it was before but now I realize that something more is going on here. Why would someone have to re-engineer this highly engineered machine? What else is going on? Or maybe you are suggesting that his fix compensated for a short between windings that actually happened years ago - maybe that's it. I need to figure out the proper current and then measure it. The series resistor was warming up nearly the same. I could bump up it's value to 10 or 15 ohm from 7 and see if that cools things down. The coil really pulls in the mechanism strongly - maybe too strongly in fact.
***** I'm thinking you might be right about the shorted turns. Until you mentioned a shorted turn acting like a transformer secondary, I'd never thought of it.
I decided to stabilize parts of the video because it was hard to see detail otherwise. I find it gives a weird 3D effect that helps see some depth in the image. The camera I am using is running at a low frame rate. The significant capture period for each frame results in another weird effect where the image seems smeared during camera movement. The stabilizer seems to correct this to a fair degree which I consider a good improvement. A better camera would help. So for now, just look away every ten seconds and keep a bag handy. ;-)
I have a Seeburg 160 and when i push a selection the selector pics the wrong record selection as marked on the bottom label inside the jukebox near the bottom? Can any one help
Gary, I have a Seeburg 160 as well. When making a selection, it will scan twice and go back to it's resting position. Have you ever experienced this with yours? Everything seems to work except for this issue. Cheers.
There is a mod for the solenoid that can save the jukebox. It was done for free play or places with lots of kids. I forget how to do it. But lets say a person adds credit. In normal setting that person hits letter then number and solenoid kicks out. But lets say a person adds money. hits a letter and that is it the unit keeps power to the solenoid. This in turn overheats and catches fire. The mod is like a timer so if a button is pushed and not a number it kicks or kills the power to the solenoid. In turn saves a service call, Also this mod would work with older wallbox's also.
***** The solenoid is a preferred approach just for such an eventuality. Once latched, the solenoid will draw very little current and can be left 'on' indefinitely. So I am tending to think that something was wrong with the coil like shorted turns and that extra switch and resistor was a way to keep it going when replacement was not possible. Like a repairman's trick. Only the trick failed on my watch and the coil can only be worse now. I'm looking for a replacement.
I had a similar problem with an AMI Continental 2 box. The shifter solenoids for the gripper bow have cam operated microswitches in series with both solenoids, so that they will energize, then switch off. Only problem was that one of the micro's contacts welded internally, and the solenoid stayed on and cooked. I took the solenoid apart, unwound it, counted the turns, gauged the wire, rewound it, replaced the bad micro - that was the fix. Ten years and 90,000+ plays later still working fine. Patch jobs like the "repairman" did in the field are just that - patch jobs. Not really a good "fix".
yes not the same but the solenoid is even if what you have now works you still need to replace the solenoid (I would look for two one for back up just in case) this will keep the owner happy with a quick repair turn a round
Very common. If you leave the selector solenoid engaged for long period of time. It will burn up the solenoid. The solenoid is not design to be energized for long period of time
Buzz1151 I don't trust it either so I'm looking for a replacement. There's a three on Ebay from the same seller that are exact matches but they ohm out differently according to his postings. 2.4, 4.4, 6.2 or something like that. I'm thinking the higher resistance might be the right choice. I've been reading up on AC latching solenoids. There's always more to learn.
Hello my name is Marcos, I'm from Spain, I'm sorry but I only speak Spanish, and I use a translator, I've seen a video of you, and I would like to ask for help with a problem that I have with a seeburg ks200, I'd really appreciate it since I'm desperate, and I do not know what more tests I have to do, the problem is that I just pick up some selections, especially A1, B1 V1 etc, most of the others, scan but do not pick them up, we have tested the keypad and that's fine, , memory unit with battery test, and all selections are activated, we have verified the stepper, and we believe that okay, we have also changed all the valves, and we do not get it to work well, can you give us some information, that could help us, I would be very grateful
Hi Marcos. I'm afraid I won't be able to help you since I really have very limited knowledge about Jukeboxes and know nothing about yours. Keep looking for help - there are people with great expertise who can probably help you with your machine. Good luck.
Please read this.
I eventually learned that this solenoid is always at risk in this model machine. If the solenoid is left in the energized state for too long (some hours), it may well burn up like this one. The bypass circuit was intended to reduce the risk of burnout under these conditions. The original coil was being protected by the bypass circuit and burned when the bypass circuit failed, probably because the micro-switch was not triggered. I've learned this the hard way - you don't need to. If you have one of these machines, you need to understand the risk around this solenoid. One option is to disconnect the solenoid and make selections by pushing both selection buttons at the same time. Jim.
Jim Lindenas I have a 65 seeburg Electra. It was working fine the other day. Put in a coin make the selection the keys do not return (only when the release button is pushed). The solenoid will remain closed after selection is pushed and will only open when The release button is pressed. The machine will scan constantly and not make a selection.
Tormat selector latch bar solenoid. Back when I rebuilt my Seeburg AY160 I found that someone added a jumper in the single price unit for "Free play" that kept that solenoid always on whenever power was applied to the jukebox. Wow that's a fire waiting to happen! Luckily my solenoid wasn't burned up.
Are there any courses or videos to learn this model inside out...thanks
is that old-fashioned sealing wax to isolate the solenoid or two component chemical lacquer?
You don't need the coil at all... just clip the wires that lead to it, and press the letter and number together for each selection. No latch bar solenoid ever needed again.
I have a Seeburg 201 jukebox and am trying to get the two large rectangular selector cable connectors off. Do I just yank them off. Wiggling them and pulling doesn't seem to get them disconnected. I hate to pull much harder as I'm afraid I'll break them. Is there a catch or a secret to disconnecting them? Thanks for any help you all can provide. Vince from North Carolina
Hey Jim - thanks for the video. On that replacement solenoid, I guess it's best to get the one with the highest resistance? I would assume that means it's the least likely to have a windings short of its own, right?
hi Jim,
A quick question on a problem I am having with my Wurlitzer 2300 selector.
Ok , the basic problem is when you turn it on its showing a lit select light, no selections can be made and there are 2 caps. on top in the center of the selection row of buttons between the record played counter and the selection buttons that get red hot when the machine is on. You can trip the mech. in the back and the machine will pick and play a record perfectly. What I think is going on is the coil for the reset bar (for the buttons) is getting power and keeping it locked in the energized position. As far as I can tell the entire Juke is 100% original and had worked perfect for years. It is also set up for free play. You don't live in the St.Louis area do you ? thanks in advance Jeff
What is the voltage of that coil?
Nice video. I am working on a 222 that just plays every single record. Can't find the prob yet, but the manual says reseat the memory connector. I reseated both big connectors, but nope...
Did you get this fixed? There is a function on this jukebox that creates the playing of every record......do you have a manual?
@@CowSaysMooMoo I actually don't remember now if I fixed it or not- Thanks for writing back! It might have been the popularity meter, can't remember =)
If that solenoid is operating on AC, it may have short circuit turns, which causes it to act like a transformer, and thus massively overheat. I suspect that it will have shorted turns. The previous guy's 'hack job' was to reduce that current to a reasonable level.
***** I agree that there could be shorted turns but even so, it could be that the coil will still perform satisfactorily if we're lucky. I returned the selector to service today primarily to see if it worked properly and it appears to be doing so.
During normal operation, the coil remains energized until two song selections are completed. That can take 15 seconds with a dithering patron. I put the unit into the selection state, energizing the coil and left it there while measuring it's temperature rise with an infrared thermometer. The temperature quickly rose and reached 65C before I de-energized it at about 15 seconds. 65C is not too hot but it seemed it had lots more to go and I think it might reach 80 if left indefinitely. A patron can drop in a quarter, make one selection and walk away leaving the coil energized.
During the initial incident, the coil smoked in seconds. So I think I have restored just as it was before but now I realize that something more is going on here. Why would someone have to re-engineer this highly engineered machine? What else is going on? Or maybe you are suggesting that his fix compensated for a short between windings that actually happened years ago - maybe that's it.
I need to figure out the proper current and then measure it. The series resistor was warming up nearly the same. I could bump up it's value to 10 or 15 ohm from 7 and see if that cools things down. The coil really pulls in the mechanism strongly - maybe too strongly in fact.
***** I'm thinking you might be right about the shorted turns. Until you mentioned a shorted turn acting like a transformer secondary, I'd never thought of it.
Jim, Great job and good video. Can you just apply 1.5v via a battery to the relay coil leads to see if it worked?
Dont use the youtube video stabilizer. it is absolutely horrible, almost gives me the sensation that I am going to get sick ;-)
I decided to stabilize parts of the video because it was hard to see detail otherwise. I find it gives a weird 3D effect that helps see some depth in the image. The camera I am using is running at a low frame rate. The significant capture period for each frame results in another weird effect where the image seems smeared during camera movement. The stabilizer seems to correct this to a fair degree which I consider a good improvement. A better camera would help.
So for now, just look away every ten seconds and keep a bag handy. ;-)
I have a Seeburg 160 and when i push a selection the selector pics the wrong record selection as marked on the bottom label inside the jukebox near the bottom? Can any one help
Gary, I have a Seeburg 160 as well. When making a selection, it will scan twice and go back to it's resting position. Have you ever experienced this with yours? Everything seems to work except for this issue. Cheers.
There is a mod for the solenoid that can save the jukebox. It was done for free play or places with lots of kids. I forget how to do it.
But lets say a person adds credit. In normal setting that person hits letter then number and solenoid kicks out.
But lets say a person adds money. hits a letter and that is it the unit keeps power to the solenoid. This in turn overheats and catches fire.
The mod is like a timer so if a button is pushed and not a number it kicks or kills the power to the solenoid. In turn saves a service call,
Also this mod would work with older wallbox's also.
***** The solenoid is a preferred approach just for such an eventuality. Once latched, the solenoid will draw very little current and can be left 'on' indefinitely. So I am tending to think that something was wrong with the coil like shorted turns and that extra switch and resistor was a way to keep it going when replacement was not possible. Like a repairman's trick. Only the trick failed on my watch and the coil can only be worse now. I'm looking for a replacement.
I had a similar problem with an AMI Continental 2 box. The shifter solenoids for the gripper bow have cam operated microswitches in series with both solenoids, so that they will energize, then switch off. Only problem was that one of the micro's contacts welded internally, and the solenoid stayed on and cooked. I took the solenoid apart, unwound it, counted the turns, gauged the wire, rewound it, replaced the bad micro - that was the fix. Ten years and 90,000+ plays later still working fine. Patch jobs like the "repairman" did in the field are just that - patch jobs. Not really a good "fix".
Mixture of R and G keyboards. Thank you for the video!
Well done Jim and as my saying goes "thats another job jobbed", I will reply to your last email shortly!
Paul
yes not the same but the solenoid is
even if what you have now works you still need to replace the solenoid (I would look for two one for back up just in case)
this will keep the owner happy with a quick repair turn a round
I've ordered a replacement solenoid. In the meantime, no coins will go into the main player so the old solenoid will not get energized.
Very common. If you leave the selector solenoid engaged for long period of time. It will burn up the solenoid. The solenoid is not design to be energized for long period of time
good video, but man oh man.. I wouldn't trust a burned solenoid..
Maybe bring out the winding tools again?? huh?
Buzz1151 I don't trust it either so I'm looking for a replacement. There's a three on Ebay from the same seller that are exact matches but they ohm out differently according to his postings. 2.4, 4.4, 6.2 or something like that. I'm thinking the higher resistance might be the right choice. I've been reading up on AC latching solenoids. There's always more to learn.
Hello my name is Marcos, I'm from Spain, I'm sorry but I only speak Spanish, and I use a translator, I've seen a video of you, and I would like to ask for help with a problem that I have with a seeburg ks200, I'd really appreciate it since I'm desperate, and I do not know what more tests I have to do, the problem is that I just pick up some selections, especially A1, B1 V1 etc, most of the others, scan but do not pick them up, we have tested the keypad and that's fine, , memory unit with battery test, and all selections are activated, we have verified the stepper, and we believe that okay, we have also changed all the valves, and we do not get it to work well, can you give us some information, that could help us, I would be very grateful
Hi Marcos. I'm afraid I won't be able to help you since I really have very limited knowledge about Jukeboxes and know nothing about yours. Keep looking for help - there are people with great expertise who can probably help you with your machine. Good luck.
You might know about this site but they are good for jukebox parts.
www.victoryglass.com/
I just ordered a replacement solenoid through Ebay.
I give up"No power going to unit at all model AY160, Seeburg 1961, Can any body help me out?
I need Help"
Get a service manual. It should have schematic diagrams in it, and a fault finding chart as well. Got mine off eBay.