@@mrtow.6144 I think it shows that going super slow in short biased exercises may not be ideal, but also it’s not worth trying to be overly fast either. You can only change an exercise so much with only momentum.
Seems to me, the portion where you initiate the concentric with help from the hips and lower back, where the load is highest the lats aren't contracting dynamically but isometrically. Considering there isn't enough research comparing isometrics with dynamic reps, I'm not sure if the cheat reps would be better as a lengthened biased exercise compared to reps which isolate shoulder extension.
@N1education yes, and I agree with most of it. But I should've been more specific, I was talking about the fast version version promoted by Menno Henselmans. His idea is basically to cheat up the weight and do a relatively fast eccentric with more control at the end to lengthened bias he eccentric more. I'm talking about the concentric however. It probably also depends a lot on how you specifically perform the movement, however it seems to me that at the start when tension is highest the lats are contracting more isometrically than dynamically (maybe the same would happen during the eccentric, but I can imagine you can control the eccentric a bit more to make sure the lats are lengthening until the very end of the movement) Unless I somehow missed you saying this😅, I think we probably disagree on this. Wonder what you think
@ this was covered in the video. Even with the delayed shoulder extension action, it still going to be happening under higher forces with the techniques shown, and if you control the eccentric more, it just makes the eccentric harder in the short position and easier in the lengthened position, but the eccentric is still not overloaded. In order to accomplish the condition you suggest, the weight would have to be very light so a small jerk could essentially send it flying.
@@N1education Sorry for wasting your time. Maybe my attention faltered, but I didn't hear you talking about whether the peak tension portion of the concentric could be considered isometric for the lats, but upon further thought, if tension is all that matters I geuss it's not really important whether it's considered isometric or dynamic, and it probably can't be considered completely isometric anyway, because the lats are moving a little bit even during that starting portion. Thanks for helping me think more deeply about this anyway 👍
Do you think the same idea could be generalized for dumbell rows, becoming more upright altering the force curve to make it more lengthened biased? Am I missing something?
@@5uraj_Rao in regards to tempo yes. Not sure what you mean about being upright, this wouldn’t affect the resistance profile but rather muscle bias and ROM.
@@daxvax yes, but keep in mind especially on the eccentric, you’re lowering the tension through a lot of the ROM to do so and then have a sudden jerk at the end. To me, it’s not practical or “safe” in terms of training to try to do eccentrics excessively fast for this purpose. So don’t go faster than what seems safe to control.
can u just start eccentrinc not leaning so more load on lat and just cuz u moved ur lower back and hips why would it matter if there is more load on concentric when its not all lat and u get more for eccentric for lat anyway
@@jik4107 yes and what’s even better is if your chest is up bc then you remain upright and get more contraction in the lat and more tension throughout the whole rep
Do you offer consultations for people looking to buy gym equipment so it adapts to their biomechanics ? if not, could you share the most useful ones to one for someone looking for a somewhat minimal setup to build overall body
Good stuff. Faster concentrics/eccentrics being more lengthened biased make perfect intuitive sense. Thanks for the video
So what are the take aways for hypertrophy...should we go for faster controlled concentric and eccentric for baising lengthened position?
@@mrtow.6144 I think it shows that going super slow in short biased exercises may not be ideal, but also it’s not worth trying to be overly fast either. You can only change an exercise so much with only momentum.
Seems to me, the portion where you initiate the concentric with help from the hips and lower back, where the load is highest the lats aren't contracting dynamically but isometrically. Considering there isn't enough research comparing isometrics with dynamic reps, I'm not sure if the cheat reps would be better as a lengthened biased exercise compared to reps which isolate shoulder extension.
@@ginoyesano5649 did you watch the full video?
@N1education yes, and I agree with most of it. But I should've been more specific, I was talking about the fast version version promoted by Menno Henselmans. His idea is basically to cheat up the weight and do a relatively fast eccentric with more control at the end to lengthened bias he eccentric more. I'm talking about the concentric however. It probably also depends a lot on how you specifically perform the movement, however it seems to me that at the start when tension is highest the lats are contracting more isometrically than dynamically (maybe the same would happen during the eccentric, but I can imagine you can control the eccentric a bit more to make sure the lats are lengthening until the very end of the movement) Unless I somehow missed you saying this😅, I think we probably disagree on this. Wonder what you think
@ this was covered in the video. Even with the delayed shoulder extension action, it still going to be happening under higher forces with the techniques shown, and if you control the eccentric more, it just makes the eccentric harder in the short position and easier in the lengthened position, but the eccentric is still not overloaded.
In order to accomplish the condition you suggest, the weight would have to be very light so a small jerk could essentially send it flying.
@@N1education Sorry for wasting your time. Maybe my attention faltered, but I didn't hear you talking about whether the peak tension portion of the concentric could be considered isometric for the lats, but upon further thought, if tension is all that matters I geuss it's not really important whether it's considered isometric or dynamic, and it probably can't be considered completely isometric anyway, because the lats are moving a little bit even during that starting portion. Thanks for helping me think more deeply about this anyway 👍
Do you think the same idea could be generalized for dumbell rows, becoming more upright altering the force curve to make it more lengthened biased? Am I missing something?
@@5uraj_Rao in regards to tempo yes. Not sure what you mean about being upright, this wouldn’t affect the resistance profile but rather muscle bias and ROM.
@N1education yeah, I meant tempo (cheating a tiny bit to accelerate the dumbell from the bottom). Thanks for clarifying :D
SO FAST explosive reps on both concentric and eccentric makes for lengthened bias resistance?
@@daxvax yes, but keep in mind especially on the eccentric, you’re lowering the tension through a lot of the ROM to do so and then have a sudden jerk at the end. To me, it’s not practical or “safe” in terms of training to try to do eccentrics excessively fast for this purpose.
So don’t go faster than what seems safe to control.
@@N1educationit sounds like asking for a lay tear to happen. Seems better for a later exercise when your joints are all warm
Better to just add around 25-30% more weight (than you could normally do for 8-10 full, normal speed, reps) and just do partials without swinging?
can u just start eccentrinc not leaning so more load on lat and just cuz u moved ur lower back and hips why would it matter if there is more load on concentric when its not all lat and u get more for eccentric for lat anyway
@@jik4107 yes and what’s even better is if your chest is up bc then you remain upright and get more contraction in the lat and more tension throughout the whole rep
Do you offer consultations for people looking to buy gym equipment so it adapts to their biomechanics ? if not, could you share the most useful ones to one for someone looking for a somewhat minimal setup to build overall body
I like that analysis. Thanks!
This is called velocity curve it’s physics but physics lies in bodybuilding because it tells half truths.
@@cata9223 it’s newtons, measured with a force gauge, not velocity from an accelerometer.
@@N1education where did you get the accelerometer from? Im curious to play around with this toy.
This was super usefull!!
T(F)LDR