New Willsenton R8 MkII: Further Review & Optional Mods
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- First of all, Kudos to Wilsenton for listening and being responsive to their customers. A huge thumbs up on this latest updated R8. It gets a highly recommended Skunkie seal of approval now. Even though you will likely want to replace the tubes, it's still a bargain for what you are getting!
This is the first video on the latest updated version of the popular R8 amplifier. I was in contact with Wilsenton about the reliability issues I found with the earlier version of this amp and they agreed these issues needed some attention.
After spending some time listening to it out of the box and then tearing into it, this version has zero "must do" mods needed. The bias boards have fail safe resistors, the grounding issues have been resolved and any mods at this point are just fun typical DIY stuff to personalize the amp to fit your taste and listening environment.
A great book for DIY amp building info!
Morgan Jones: Building Valve Amplifiers.
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You can buy this amplifier here
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The tools I use in this video include:
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The fact that Willsenton have listened to the feedback and acted makes them credible. I would now consider buying this amp if needed another KT88 amp. I have more faith in them now. Fair play to Wilsengton shame not all manufacturers act in the same way.
I recently ordered a new Willsenton R800i and I can say there is SIGNIFICANTLY less hum! It seems that Willsenton is paying attention.
You can adjust the Hum on your 800i if you have it. Did you see that?
Thanks for the follow up. Because of your channel, improvements have been realized.
Appreciate the time and effort very much.
It is really great that they acted on your findings
I love it - there is now nothing to do on the MkII version "unless you are a DIYer and cannot leave well enough alone"! Yip - I find this is exactly the difference between me when I only owned silicon gear (where I'd just switch elements) to me now I have a tube amplifier (where I modify the circuit)!
I have been watching all your videos on the Willsenton amps. So well explained and easy to understand ! Love it ! ❤
I am considering buying a new R8 and glad to know there is always room for tweaks and improvements. 😊
I really love the way you explain what you do and why!
Your close up of your mods are in focus and sharp, very enjoyable video, I feel if the viewers want to bad mouth your videos, they should make their own content and learn like l do from your videos .
Thank you very much!
Well done 🎉👍to BOTH you & Willsenton for this series of mods & upgrades to the R8! The co-operation between you guys is wonderful to see Stephe, & seems to be a rare thing these days. Perhaps other manufacturers could take a leaf out of Wilsebton's book?
I will probably never buy an R8, as I have recently spent close to $2500 (AUD) on building a high-end transistor amp (Silicon Chip magazine stereo Ultra-LD Mk.IV).
Despite this, I have really enjoyed your videos on this amp, & I would not hesitate to buy an R8 in other circumstances.
I like your step-by-step demonstration/procedure showing us how to do all these mods. It seems like the best way to go!
First rate. Many thanks. Your painstaking work and Willsenton listening to you and acting on what you found really paid dividends . I feel like I've been playing X7 R8 table tennis, with the (hopeful) result that I can settle on the R8.
If they were smart they would offer to take you on as a consultant. I just ordered one based on their ability to take constructive criticism seriously and I told them so!😊
Thankyou for a really thoughtful and informative video. Ure a good teacher. And personally I agree with all of your idea's for improvement of this amplifier.
I am a new subscriber from today.
As many allready said:
Hat off for Willsenton . For humbly listening for constructive criticism, and after that think it thru and make changes. - That's a big star in my book !
And also: I loved youre summon in the end about what an DIY interest is all about...
Love from a gloomy autumn Stockholm Sweden/ Jonny
Really appreciate your work.
As always, another brilliant video.
Thank you! Cheers!
Im going to order one of these soon, hopefully i don't end up with a mk1 old stock. Great video 😎
Outstanding!!! Thx for sharing all this knowledge! Cheers!
@Skunkie… you want to cal this Willsenton R8 Mk2. For me I’m calling this as the . . . . .
Willsenton R8 Skunkie Edition.
I've really enjoyed your R8 video's. As a very mature electrical engineer, I have forgotten most of my circuit theory so this has been a really fun re-introduction to circuit design. I received my R8 a couple of weeks ago, connected to a refurbished pair of Klipsch RP-8000F. Sound is really good! Checked the Tubes and the KT88's that shipped are PSVANE HiFi KT88's. Pre-Amp's are Russian 6H9C's and 6H8C's but don't have the mil-spec markings on them. I'm curious about your thoughts on prioritizing the pre-amp tube roll first to some higher grade options -vs- application stage. Outside NOS Sylvania 6SN7 / 6SL7, what experiences might you have with some of the newer generation tubes from Tungsol & others?
Maybe try some adapters with a pair of 5751 in place of the 6SL7 tubes.
Thankyou for sharing and everything you do for the community!
Any chance your going to have a look over the R800i 🤔
No. Several reasons: it's too heavy for me to move around, costs a fortune to ship anywhere, has way more internal voltage than I want to be around, it's mostly built with PC boards, from what I have seen it's another strange design like the R300 is, and for this much money there are so many other better options.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics what are the other options you can suggest 🤔
There are a lot at that price point!
I must be "Lucky" purchased the R8 two years ago. Have not had any issues, Came w/ KT88's. I purchased Electro harmonics EL34 last year & love the sound!
As long as those budget bias pots never fail... I always wonder when I see posts like this, have you owned other tube amps to compare?
A Reisong A10 purchased 5 years ago. Gets frequent use. Sounds great w/ Klipsch R51M .No issues !
uuggg an out of the box reisong A10/12 sounds >horrible< without mods.
I have had an R8 for a year and heavily tube rolled it with absolutely no problems. I have Prima Luna 400 and a Cayin 300 plus several others. I don't notice any differences in this performance. It was news to me to see your insight.
Brilliant!
Thanks!
Hello Steph.................HOLCO H2 ( 10 Ohm -1 watt - less than 0.5 %) and GOOD sounding ....
I've had my R8 for almost 2 months now, and have not yet tried the amp in ultra mode.
Very cool, I've been a career tech (mostly medical equip electronics) for much of my life and you understand tube amplifiers way more than I. ...also play guitar and want to know more about the amps that I love. Maybe I can watch and learn. Thanks
I would luv to have your knowledge about amplifiers. you are Awesome 😎
This to me, is your best video, without need to attack budget China amplifiers.... as bad. You will be better appreciated for seeking improvements, wonderful skill to your solutions than to just seek faults! Can we hear sound samples before and after mods?
Well this one is finally not a train wreck...
Thank you for the viseo
Another great video - thanks! I am modding an original version R8 and was going to adapt your 3-terminal tag strip method while keeping the headphone jack. But after watching your MkII video, I'm questioning how best to implement it. Should I emulate your MkII method (the many wires soldered on the Cathode of the main filter cap) or use the 3-terminal tag strip?
Either works. I just did one using the many wires on the cap method with one wire going from that point to the chassis.
Thank you, very informative. Does this pair will with the KEF LS50 Meta ?
Looks like that speaker only goes down to 80hz? Likely would need a powered sub with it.
But where to buy the Mk II and be sure to not buy an old version?
There's no mark or indication on selling points....
Hm???
In my latest email to Mason Willsenton, I mentioned this and he said they are going to consider this option.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics I sure hope they do. They seemed to have cleaned up all their issues, based on your recommendations. I have to give them props for doing that.
I ordered from china hifi and they give you the option of either. Strangely the the updated one is 980 and the older version is 1200 but free shipping with the older version. I ordered the newer version 330 shipping to NC
thanks for your indepth video, as im about to purchase an R8 … this is very pertinent information… however noted your comments about willsenton (not) labelling the change, have you or anyone reading this got any clue on how to communicate with supplier/s to ensure the amp is supplied with these updates ?
just read thru all the messages and see that im not thenonly one to ask this question, also saw you mention yr email to them… look forward to hear what they reply!
They deny there is any "upgrade model" even though I posted videos of the two different versions...
I'm really curious about kt120's in this amp. My local tube guy has a full kit for sale. Are you planning to have a play with those in the future? I would love to know the % comparison to your handmade one. Might even push me to get this over the Muzishare x7
That's the plan! Honestly either should be able to run KT120's as the mods will be fairly extensive i.e. adding a sperate heater tranformer and replacing the output transformers. And with the updates Willsenton has done, it would be hard to decides between the two now. One uses small bottle drivers and the other large bottle.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics glad to see you hitting 10k!
Thank you for your work! Interesting to know your recommendations for 6sn7 tube rolling for this amp. Is it makes any difference to sound?
Yes, absolutely. The short bottle RCA 6SL7 also sound good. The problem with big bottle high gain tubes is microphonics. I'm going to try a 9pin adapter to use those instead and see how they works.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics No, I asked about 6SN7 tubes as phase splitters and central tube
Great Video. I want to try a tube amp for the first time. I am in between the Muzishare x7 or Willsenton R8. I know you compared the MX7 and WR8 MKi a few months ago. How was this R8 MKII compared to MX7?
If you can be sure you get this newest version, I honestly think they are pretty equal. I think I would still buy the Muzishare.
thank you!@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
Stephe, do you still consider the Muzishare X7 a better sounding amp than this new Willsenton R8?
I think they are much closer, it will depend more on the tubes available now.
Hi. I’m a new to tube amplifier how can I tell my tubes are getting old!?
The bias starts changing and the volume is low or distorted. Tubes normally last a LONG time.
Thanks for this informational video! I have a question abour R8s pre-in: does it bypass the preamp section completely and sends the signal straight to the amplification section, or it only bypasses volume control? I’m wondering if the preamp tubes still modify the signal when I use the pre-in. Thanks!
Tube amps do not have a "pre-amp section", it simply bypasses the volume control. The input sensitivity is so high on an R8, the last thing these amps need is a pre-amp in front of them!
Thanks for your reply@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics ! I've been using a Rotel preamp with my Willsenton for some time and it seems to work fine - connected to the pre-in input. Do you think this may damage the amp?
It's not going to "damage" anything. Just don't be fooled into thinking you are somehow bypassing the "pre-amp" in the R8, it's not how this works. You are just adding more stuff in the signal path.
@@NormcoreGregas Stephe points out, that will just bypass the volume pot. As an integrated amplifier, as opposed to a pure power amplifier, it will have circuit stages between the input and the ‘power section’ but those are not the same as in a separately designed preamplifier unit / line stage amp unit. Without getting into the weeds (as I don’t know the circuit details anyway) I seem to recall this is a ‘push pull’ output design, and so amongst those ‘input stages’ will include something to split / invert the signal to feed one half of the signal for each channel, plus normally circuitry before that part to buffer the input signal and amplify the signal voltage/amplitude. Apologies is you didn’t want to know all that - Anyway, it shouldn’t be needed unless the volume pot on this amp is so bad that using your Rotel to control the signal amplitude instead gives you a better sound; judge with your ears 😉
@@stephendixon8575 thanks for your insightful response. I'm using the Rotel preamp as it has a built in DAC and phono stage. But I also have plenty of separates, so the configuration varies ;)
Hi Skunkie, I just received a WIllsenton R8 from Amazon and it is the new one with your recommended edits :)
I didn't realize that it does not have a phono connection do you have any recommendations on phono preamps?
My EAR834 tube pre-amp of course :) Contact me for more info. stephe@skunkiedesigns.com
Oh that looks nice but way out of my price range any cheaper suggestions in or around $500
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
Not really, there was a nice SS I tried but it was around $800
Stephe, is the center 6SN7 wired the same as the original R8 or has it changed in any manner? I got a new R8 and thinking of doing the same mod from the older R8.
It's wired the same as the old one.
Thanks. I Appreciate it... BTW, do you happen to know if the Tung-Sol 6SL7 gold-pin and the EH 6SN7 gold-pin tubes are any better than the standard tubes?
Likely are, I know the gold pin EH 12AU7 sounds MUCH better then the standard one
Stephe, does this upgraded version of the R8 change your opinion on the Muzishare x7 as the better of the two?
They are very equal now. I would probably choose the Muzishare for myself because I like the small tubes, less issues with microphonics. But the R8 uses the 6SN7 which is a great tube.
Thanks! Sorry, I may have asked this twice as I didn't see my first comment post. @@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
Is the volume Controle still sketchy, super sensitive on both knob and remote? I use remote from listening position allot.
Yep, many of these China amps have WAY too much gain on the front end.
Well....in that case ,guess I'll go with the X7@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
Well...in that case, guess I'll go with the X7. Thanks @@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
Did Willsenton really replace the choke or just relabel the 180mA one as a 220? After all, according to your measurements of the original is wasn’t a 4H choke but only what, 1.8 or something?
I honestly have no idea.
on the china audio site .. it says “relabelled” inductor …. not a very encouraging sign :( …
I have a question.
Do the 6sl7 need to be matched?
(
Not really that important
Have you listened to dayton hta200 ?? Or what's your opinion ?
That looks like a lot of Chinesium there lol
Stephe, Happy Holidays! Sorry to keep pestering you, but I have a question. I have two R8s and a Muzishare X7 and they all exhibit the same problem. The volume pot develops a scritchy noisy when adjusting the volume between 9-2 o'clock. I replaced the pot on one R8 and it too has the same noise. Any ideas on what is causing this? Do you know of a fix? Does your R8 exhibit the same issue? Thanks again for all your help.
The first one I worked out had a VERY small hum from the speakers between 10 and 2 and was the loudest at 12 o'clock. Cleaning up the ground wiring to the relay board helped. My newest one is quiet but I did have an issue with a dodgy 6SL7 tube making the volume control noisy.
The noise is not a hum but a scratchy sound. Gadnuk and Xlr8or have suggested using a grid stopper and cap solution on the grid and ground part of the circuit tagged to the 6SL7 to fix this. Can you clarify this statement on what needs to be done? Xlr8or said it is a common issue with tube amps.
Might be worth trying a grid stopper on the 6SL7.
What value do you suggest?
try a 2.7K and if it's still there try a 5.6K
If I order this amp, how do I know if I’m getting the amp that you had changed
You don't, Willsenton refuses to acknowledge there were any changes to this amp. I assume they have a bunch of the old stock early versions of this amp in warehouses they still want to sell to people.
They claim that as of 12/23 all their stock has been upgraded.
I just ordered one.
I think it is illegal to have other things grounded to the power input ground. Surprised to hear they did that.
I've reviewed some made in China gear that left the ground pin floating, or used a cap to ground it. I think I remember reading The Carver Crimson 275 also left off the safety ground entirely...
Hello, question from a newbie… if willsenton has not changed the name to “mkII” how can you tell if you are ordering one of the new ones where the problems have been fixed? I feel like if I ordered one I would have no idea if they send me a new one or an old one.
You don't know and they could send you an older version or the new one...
Thank you for the reply I appreciate it. That’s what I was scared about. Any other recommendations in the “$1500 and under” integrated tube amp category?
Sorry I should also specify that I am looking for something that is safe and relatively effective out of the box. As much as I enjoy watching your videos and I wish I could do some mods like this, there is no way I can do that.
The Muzishare X7 is good, just understand the tubes it comes with are kinda meh sounding. But that's also true of the R8.
Awesome thank you I’ll take a look at this. Tubes hopefully I can figure out how to replace, it’s just the internal wiring and components that is beyond me. What do you like for replacement tubes in this one? Preferably something with good bass
How can one tell when ordering, if it's the improved version?
Not that I know of. Someone on a forum mentioned the new version mentions the "safety resistors" in the user manual that comes with these updated models.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Love your work on these amps! I do dislike the fact Wilsenton chose NOT to call the safer version Mk II or SE or whatever, which will cause turmoil and confusion in the second-hand market.
Is it possible to add preamp outputs for a subwoofer?
Not "pre-amp", but you could add sub-out jacks after the volume control. There is no "pre-amp".
Okay, as long as they're variable with the volume control.
Anyone here have experience of importing to the UK? If so, how much import duty was charged ? Thanks 👊🏻🎵🎶😎
Not sure if you already got an answer elsewhere but in this case the most you should be charged is 20% VAT on the total value of your order (in GB£) including the shipping cost - However most couriers (including Royal Mail or Parcel Force) add on a fee for “administration” of them collecting this VAT for HMRC - there is currently no fixed amount or limit (AFAIK) on how much they can add for this ‘fee’ but Parcel Force charged me £12.00 in July 2024 on top of the VAT collected on something I bought (used) from USA. They calculate the amount based on the export/import declaration value - As you may know sometimes sellers will understate the value (though of course that’s illegal 😉 and couldn’t possibly condone) but if the goods are insured for shipping a set amount, this might determine the figure used on the declaration. Hope that helps 👍
When will the video update come out ??
Huh? I'm done with the R8
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Thx, you where talking about how it sounds, maby a compare with the Muzishare
I did in a video somewhere talk about this, the second version of the R8 and the Muzishare sound very similar, it's more about which tubes are in them at that point.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Ok thx
👍Good stuff, I may trade my second R300 for a R8 Now. Speaking of the R300, when can the Willsenton R300 owners expect the next video modificatons series, on the late model R300 release, you took in from a (correction) channel viewer, a few months back?
I did the early version power supply video. I'm actually kinda stumped on how to deal with that monster dip in the frequency response. I'm really thinking it might be the output transformers and I think I need to "breadboard" some different ones into a channel as see if that changes anything. I've just never run across anything like this before. And it wasn't a "customer" it was another channel viewer :)
Correction I meant to say, channel viewer.
Any chance you can show a video, on how to do a adaptation of "NO HEADPHONE CONFIGURATON", for the R300? What you've done on the R8 series is very impressive. Not so sure we may have the same outcome with the R300. No fault of yours by anymeans. It's the scheme and components used from the manufacturer that seem to be the challenge. @@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
Absolutely, this is just really a head scratcher on what's causing it. They sound OK, but IMHO not great like a 300B amp should. They sound about like a EL34 amp does with JJ EL34L tubes that cost $25. And that's when using $$$$$ tubes. My simple DIY 300B with zero feedback and budget Edcor iron sounds better, not sure what is going on yet.
I'd be very interested in your assessment and bench test of the use of 6GU7s as drivers in the R8 instead of the 6SN7s as proposed by Tube Lab (th-cam.com/video/mwaJPtXjsqA/w-d-xo.html). I'm liking it for greater detail and air but perceive a slight reduction in bass response. I would appreciate your thoughts.
Looks like these would need a different adapter than the normal 12AX7 9 pin type as the heaters are wired differently
Not tuned by my liking = poor design and excess distortion before reaching full power ;-)
You aren't going to beat this for the price. It's a great platform to "hot rod".
Looks like Willsenton ,made up name, finally paid you some money.
Why r u confusing Poor tube amp buyers with your brilliant knowledge of this technology. If u know so much why do,nt u go and get a job with these amp makers.
U know you r fake.
They never paid me a dime. And how am I a fake again, because I don't work for a company in China? Are all retired people fake?