There is a greater selection of replacement triggers for Remington pattern actions. If all you are doing is live game shooting it may not be as big a factor.
Liking the Creedmoor needs more series. So far everything done to both of these test subjects can be done by someone at home. I say do the triggers. Use a timney or a jewel, since both should be relatively easy for anyone to get. The triggers can be installed at home. I would test the trigger pull of the factory ones, just to know how bad they really are, then install the new ones and set at 3 or 4 lbs to start. So far nothing has required a trip to the gunsmith. Then hand load and tune loads to each rifle. Then it's time for the trip to the gunsmith for barrel threading and tuner brakes. I like that you are doing this, it will most definitely help show how a person that either wants to upgrade their hunting rifle, wants to do PRS or F class can get started, without braking the bank or needing a gunsmith, just to get started. Stay cool in the BBQ pit of south Texas and as others are too, will be waiting for the next video to see what you do. Thanks
I did a similar project with a Savage Axis in 223. Kept the factory stock just to see what I could do with it. Stiffened up the fore end by bedding in a lattice of short carbon fibre rods salvaged out of a broken kite. Floated the barrel. Filled the shoulder stock with a foam / lead shot / epoxy mix to get the balance better. Rattle can paint job. That was it. Will it win any comps. No. Accurate enough for small deer, and plinking out to 500m, absolutely it's just about under 1moa. Total spend was under £300 including a scope. 8 years and counting of cheap fun times! Hope these ones are as much fun. Edited to include Oxford comma!
Cool project 👍 You haven’t mentioned the weight increase of the Oryx . I understand where your headed , but soon you will end up with a rifle that weighs nearly twice as much as it did out of the box and that is a component of increased accuracy . One of the reasons that someone buys that type of rifle is portability and ease of carry in a hunting environment and from personal experience the Oryx changes that entirely. I realise that the mission is to improve accuracy but in the process you run the risk of forgetting what those rifles really are . Love the channel and can’t wait for part 3 . Ken
Trigger before tuner. I feel like you should see how accurate you can get the barrel and action, then the last stage is tune the whole configuration. In my opinion, tuning is jumping ahead of some necessary upgrades like a trigger.
You’ve got the outcome of two range sessions with the control being basically identical, so I’m for adding the chassis to the control, as you can always refer back to previous results w/o chassis. Plus I’m very curious to see if the control action/barrel are just better for some reason. What if it’s .5 MOA after chassis? Then it’d be cool to see you try to figure out why one is so different from the other.
Was just scrolling down to post the same! Would be curious to see the chassis on the control for a group and then switch it back before continuing on. Maybe use the Control gun to swap a single part at a time (put on a chassis then switch back to original stock, then test just a trigger or just a tuner, etc.), and use #1 to test the cumulative effect of the upgrades.
Agreed, for me $600 is something but for this series and shooter comfort I can see both having the chassis(since it's not my cash) and then incrementally adding details to experimental, eric cortina tuner/brake first, will be interesting to see what improvement(using match factory ammo), the only other things I can think of improving since the optics are set would be match trigger, custom barrel. maybe show difference between using rear bag and no bag but a sniper can probably adjust and make it shoot good regardless. as a finale maybe have some average shooter use both and see difference?
In my view the point of a control is keep it constant. You know it will under perform, howeverver is that not the point of the experiment. How much better over your stock control system can you improve.
Changing any of the stock items the control rifle had just changes the game. Leave the stock on rifle 2 upgrade it bipod, add an EC tuner brake to rifle1 and reboot for the next episode. After going as far as possible on rifle 1 complete the comparison followed by all the updates onto rifle two and see if it shoots better than rifle one (as you might expect it to)
What about looking to the second hand market for different used factory stocks, wood vs synthetics old vs new. Invest time into the control and money into the other.
@@graynotescartridgebox , it doesn't matter if you know today. Next time you go out the conditions might change. Then you dont have your control rifle to validate the change. In other words what if you make a change to the other rifle and it's worse? You will need to verify with the controlled rifle that it is actually worse. What if you make a chage to both rifles you don't know.
Leave the 'Control' the control...its already the best of the two out of the box. The goal is still how much better can the other rifle be improved with upgrades. Keep the round count the same on both rifles, but only upgrade #1. Trigger first because that is something anyone can do without needing a gunsmith (an assumption that should be considered with each subsequent upgrade).
Yeah the next mod should be a trigger. Then I'd use JB Compound and JB Bright to polish the barrel bore. I outfitted my .308 SPS Varmint with a HS Precision stock, Timney Trigger, and JB'd the shit out of the barrel and took a 1.5 MOA rifle to a consistent 1/3 MOA rifle after extensive load development. It can be done and I learned a lot in the process.
agree about leaving the control alone...other than perhaps testing other ammos on each of them. See if things stay the same between the two with; hunting rounds, vs. match, vs tipped, vs. fmj.
I am very curious as to what the effectiveness of hand lapping the barrels would be on these 2 Remingtons. Hand lapping has a very proven track record for shrinking groups, however it is one of the most overlooked steps in tightening group size on new rifles. I look forward to watching more from you guys.
have a similar reminton rifle and a bergara hmr pro in 6.5 creedmoor.....the barrel on the bergara is lapped the Remington is not...when you push a cleaning patch through the barrels you can really feel the difference....copper cleans out the bergara barrel in just a few patches...the Remington takes forever to get copper out..have seriously been thinking about lapping barrel...gonna give it a few more rounds and see if it settles in...once had Remington rifle that took almost 200 rounds to break in and settle down
@@michaellankford8358 I never shoot a new barrel before I lapp it in anything. My brand new 300 ultramarine was filthy with rust and small metal burs from tooling. I cleaned on it for a long time before scoping it. I was amazed how crappy it was. So I lapped the hell out of it, then took metal polish on a brass brush and a patch wrapped around it and polished the heck out of it untill it felt smooth as silk. It shoots .25" groups
I am building a 1965 Rem 700 ADL right now. .30-06.Just pillar bedded and free floated the barrel. Then cut barrel threads today and ordered an EC tuner. Ordered a Limbsaver recoil pad to replace the old hard one.
I have a Remington 700 Magpul in 260 Remington. It shoots same hole at 50 yards right out of the box!!! I don't have a 100 yard range here and haven't been out to the farm lately. It seems like if your going to keep one rifle as a control then you should leave it as stock as possible.
@@awbernardy me to, I think it is my most accurate rifle. And I don't worry about the stores not having ammo because I have lots of empty 308 brass. I just made me up a bunch of 140 grain SSTs yesterday.
I have a ser of Ruger American Predators in .243 & 6.5cm. The 243 RAP has turned I to my favorite hunting rifle with a Burris XTR scope! . Due to a military training accident back in 2000 it has effected the way I shoot because I can't bend my wrist. So pistol grip stocks have become my go to fix. I had got the Magpul stocks for the both, and didn't shoot the 6.5 much. Got an MDT chassis for one and swamped around and loved it. A yr or two later I missed getting another but seen the Oryx, so I bought it and put it on the 243. The comfort, and allow me to shoot without having to use my middle finger for trigger. They are still an expense to get, but the comfort and bassass factor are worth it. Yes, they both created the accuracy to improve. I use a suppressor so the only mod I can do is trigger.
I took a Browning BR3 pilar beded it and got the trigger spring and brought the poundage down, and shooting a hunting bullet 129 grn flat base spire point Hornady and average speed of 2963 fps muzzle,and the average group size of .750 at 100 yards some times .5 this with H414 powder and 45.5 grains, and topped the rifle with a Leopold 3.5× 10 now this is a great hunting rifle and 450 out the door for the rifle and add the scope,bedding compounds, so ruffley 1000$ gun, I just don't see many even talk much about this rifle that is in the 6.5 CM, I see alot testing different rifle makers but they seem to always miss this one for some reason just saying,well that's enough of my rambling,you're doing great videos and showing good stuff so keep on making smoke and aim small. GOD bless the great USA !
I used to shoot a lot of surplus rifles with 8. 9. Pound triggers, I used to used my middle finger on the trigger and my trigger finger over my middle finger. He's right about heavy triggers. Great vids!!!
I, recently, decided to move my scopes higher up due to the fact I have a somewhat long neck and adjustable cheekpieces on my competition stocks. It's about what's comfortable as mentioned.
I’m surprised you can’t adjust that trigger???? I have 1960’s 7 rem mag that I’m accurizing, updating….. I adjusted the trigger and put a tuner brake on it and I’ve tuned factory ammo to 1/4 moa at 500 yards. Next move is cerekote and Magpul hunting stock…. Then it will be done. It was shooting 2 moa when I started. 22 inch sported barrel. Not sure how any serious shooter doesn’t have an EC Tuner Brake. Thanks for what you do Eric!!! Your spot on. This is going to be a must see for any gun guy. You’re going to be 1/4 moa when your done!
Only other thing I would ask for, is maybe swap guns in between groups. To keep you from getting too comfortable on one or the other The chassis alone you can tell makes a huge difference, because the stock gun looks like it’s trying to jump right out of your hands
I would put the tuner on the non-chassis gun and put a trigger in the chassis gun. My reasoning is you could see the trigger would make that gun shoot better. Plus you know a tuner will improve groups anyway. I do like this series, keep up the good content.
Triggers are relatively easy to do. I’d be inclined to change triggers first and save the tuner brakes to the end. The tuner brakes are the ultimate way to fine tune for accuracy. Stocks and triggers are basic things guys can do without gunsmith help.
Your video with the Oryx chassis came at just the right time. I'm putting together a rifle, for local club shoots, all amateurs, out to three hundred yards. I'm about settled on a Remington trued 700 action, Krieger barrel, Oryx chassis, and a Jewel trigger, in 6mm br. That's about what my budget will allow. Wondered what you thought about my choices. Thank you for having the best channel out here. Professionally done, with great content.
I bought a 700 ADL Tactical in 6.5 needmore with a 24” varmint contour barrel from dicks sporting goods a couple years ago for $419. It has the cheapo stock, same as theirs. I knew the stock was cheap but the barrel and action alone was worth the price. Out of the box it shot a 1/2 group at 100 yards. I was very surprised to say the least. I want to put it in a better stock or chassis as well. You might look for one of these if you can still find them or maybe a used one. With all the Remington bankruptcy stuff I don’t know if their still available. Worth a shot though.
Put a trigger in the control and leave the “needs more” as it is for the next round. That way they’re constantly chasing each other… in theory if the trigger upgrade does have an effect on the control
Concur with the assessment on the control group - lots of lateral on the gun under recoil and it’s right there on the target. The comfort factor provided noticeably better recoil management on the Oryx… might be some added mass at play there too. Great to see such a stark example of why having a decent stock/chassis matters… and what the impact of a cheap/crap stock can do to even a good rifle.
Changing the "control" rifle means it is no longer a "control". The advantage you have is that even if you do improve the "control", you have records of two sessions with it as the "control".
Finally some science and not just bro’ science . Re control vs. Upgrades, My advice, no keep the control gun consistent , the same. When you have the modified gun ‘ where you want it’ and it no longer needs work, then make all the changes to the control rifle at one time… And then see how it compares… Love the series, great idea.
Mr. Cortina, I really enjoyed this 6.5 need more series and thank you for creating such an awesome content. I hope you can make another series like this. I just recently bought your EC breaker tuner for my rifle and planning to test it out. I have not changed nor modified the factory stock. I want to ask you a few questions. May I ask why did you pick ORYX chassis? Is it because it is the least expensive but it has the most features? Would you be able to compare some of the best chassis? Would you mind changing chassis only with this setup and show how they can lead to a better groupings without the tuner?
I like your plan. Upgrade the plastic stock to the Oryx and put a tuner on the rifle with the Oryx on it. I'm interested to see the EC tuner break in action. This is a good series.
Just got the Oryx for my Savage 308 tactical. Only down fall is my gun weighs 15lb.s now ,but lucky I don't have to walk but 150 yards to my deer stand. Great stock and will be getting another for my Rem.700 223.
I've had a few sps Remington 700's I always free float them and epoxy bed them from sling stud to action. Really stiffens that crappy stock. I also lapp the barrel before shooting it, then polish. I normally get well under 1" usually 1/2" groupings. From thier load development to bring it in tighter. This has given me repeatedly good results. Even my 300 ultra has shot .25 groups at 100. But your nerves do get rattled after 10 or so shots. I did end up installing a whitt Machine clamp on brake that tames this down but ive not checked groups since.
@@CJ-ty8sv Me too, especially with Remington SPS barrels. If you bore scope that thing, out of the box, like looking at a dumpster fire. But, with a little love and patience, they clean up nicely. Also, blueprinting the action and barrel face.
For a budget comparison, my Savage Axis is a $250 used gun in a $100 clearance priced gen 1 MDT LSS with about a $60 magazine, a $40 grip and I think about $200 for an ICD folding stock, a $250 pre-cut barrel, a $150 barrel nut/recoil lug system, and about $170 for the Glades fluted bolt sleeve, bolt handle and a delrin bolt knob I liked. I think the Leupold 7075 scope rail was around $40 and there is a few dollars of Devcon 10110 bedding in it, a spring I stole out of a $0.10 retractable ball point pen and $3-4.00 of shim washers to remove most of the side-to-side slop in the trigger. That's around $1,400 with a scope rail but no scope and no rings. The bolt stuff is nice but mostly cosmetic. The folder is at least $100 more than I had to spend and the grip could be an A2 discarded from an AR parts kit if i wanted to be cheap so $1,100 is the real baseline. I did get a deal on the chassis but I've seen better deals on donor actions so I think that's a wash. I'm not saying you have to go that way or that your idea to use the Oryx for a full custom build later won't work, just that there are cheaper options that let you get all of the goodies for close to the same price as a Remington in a chassis. Also, beside facing my receiver after I cut it for a 110 style barrel lug, all of the work was DIY with basic hand tools. I could have faced and flattened my receiver with some feeler gauges and a flat stone if I wanted to be 100% DIY friendly but I like lathes. If you must have a top tier trigger like a Bix-n-Andy or Triggertech, the Savage doesn't have those options but if you are ok with a spring swapped and shimmed Accu-trigger, it's a neat project.
I have a 7mag sps , the 1st load i tried after break in shot .226 3 shot group All that was ever changed was trigger and firing pin . 4-14 leupold. A very special little rifle
Slow down here!!!! Why not rig up the control like a low budget hunter would. Low rings and a cheek pad like the hornady stock pack. Get comfortable at a budget . Adjust trigger if it’s an xmark adjustable trigger. Your comparison is going to end up as 2 heavily modified rifles. That’s a different comparison then we started with. Bring up the comb with a cheek piece, bring down the scoope with the lowest set up you can use with the scope. Lighten up the trigger if possible then the comparison is still legit. Mod vs stock. The groups are still even at this point. Let’s get a winner here first then catch up the control gun and do it in a way that we can see what mod makes the biggest difference. Is it the tuner brake, stock, trigger.
I just did the same thing with my Remington 300 Blackout only I went with a KRG Bravo chassis. It was factory stocked with the Hogue rubbery stock that I attempted to glass a reinforcing rod in the fore end. It still flexed so bad the stock would contact the barrel just the weight of the rifle with the suppressor attached when supported with a bipod. The first thing I did when I got this rifle was replace the trigger with a Timney however the chassis didn't change the accuracy but the rifle is way more comfortable to shoot and I can attach it to a tripod via the arca rail I added to the KRG. I like the looks of that Oryx chassis might have been a better choice for me.
@@newerest1 I replied the other day but for some reason maybe it didn't send. I use MDT magazines I got from Midway that are for .223 or 300 BO. I have had a couple of jams from the short BO bullets that go too high entering the chamber. If you work the bolt aggressively they run fine.
Keep the control gun standard, but develop a load for it. Upgrade the oryx with ec tuner with standard Berger ammo. Then upgrade trigger on oryx and lastly develop load with ec tuner to dial it in 100%. The layman can then see what the capability of a standard rifle with load development is, and compare it to a tricked out rifle with ec tuner and developed load. That will be great.
I've had great luck with Howa 1500s in 308. I just bought a 6.5 with a 16" heavy barrel, I'm in the process of my regular upgrades, and a couple of new ones🤞
I’m not surprised the fudds were out in force about scope height. I don’t know why shooter comfort and ergonomics are such a difficult concept to grasp for some ;-).
I am enjoying this. A couple of questions. You bought hunting rifles, what does the chassis weigh? Is it too heavy for the intended purpose? Or are we changing the purpose of the rifles? Both guns after beding will work as a deer rifle out to 250 yds. If we are going for a target rifle, maybe we started in wrong place. Many people ask "what gun should I buy" 1st question, what do you want to do with it? Keep up the good work.
Definitely a difference in the way the recoil displaced the gun between the two, not sure if the chassis or the bipod was the difference, but, it was visible. He had to reset the gun every time he shot with the Rem stock.
I bought a used Savage 110 in needsmore! With the factory stock it shot a consistent 3/4” groups. Because of this test, I have mounted it in a Oryx chassis. Even though I have not shot it yet, the gun just feels more comfortable. Hopefully, I can get out to the range today and test it out. I can’t afford a more expensive weapon, so just trying to make this one a little better. I will order a tuner brake as my finances allow.
Good stuff. Fifteen shots with a one minute break after ten. Would think those sporter barrels were too hot to touch after the first five shots. They must be screaming hot during that third five shot string. Would need at least 15 to 20 minutes to start to cool down. That’s my experience anyway shooting in the same heat. And that’s with having some shade on the rifle. But maybe that’s the torture test you want to put them through. We really need to get a camera on the targets. Go ahead and put tuner brakes on both. You guys are great. Appreciate your content.
This is a pretty great series. I used to shoot a lot but frankly, we're well into a second decade of component/supply shortages so now I never shoot and haven't for some time. Looking forward to getting back into it if I don't die first. Can't wait to see how this needs-more turns out.
I got lucky with my heavy barrel savage axis in .223, thing shot .75 moa out the box with decent 69gr ammo. I put it in an oryx chassis and have shot a couple sub .25 MOA groups with handloads but very little load development. Basically I took a shot in the dark and picked a random loading for a 69gr smk and after one ladder test was shooting .4 moa easily, and .25 moa when I do my job behind the rifle. I love the oryx chassis but I couldnt deal with the ODG panels on it so I coughed up the 40 bucks or whatever it was to get the black panels for the chassis.
PLEASE list the part numbers for all the add-ons (bipod, chassis, scope and scope mount, etc.) that you ue on both guns. Some of us are building along with you...
IMHO, this is the best gun series on TH-cam right now, so forget the haters. This series will showcase how much a Rem 700 can be customized, so I suggest keeping the control in factory condition as much as possible. That way we can see the disdain in Jason's face while shooting the factory rifle grow as the series progresses. Do you plan on blueprinting the action and adding a match barrel?
That ORYX Chassis is very impressive for the price. Great series! I've been down this path before. A pressure point on that Tupperware stock would have been a complete waste of time. A new trigger would be a huge improvement. More so than the tuner imho, but we shall see!
Thanks for doing this , great concept, great series… I would suggest that you upgrades in order of price or affordability, ie do the cheaper things first… Check the free floating, and fix that, trigger, you addressed that, Put Aluminium pillow beds in the stock, stock cheek weld, etc. start with inexpensive, then ramp up to expensive. I think shooting accuracy is a lot about price. On the other hand , when I was looking for a new stock for my 1984 Winchester mod 70 xtr, ONYX was the first place I tried. ONYX said they didn’t make a chassis to fit that gun….BOO HOO
have similar Remington rifle..worst shooting remington have ever owned...tried everything could think of....floated barrel...filled forearm with epoxy...butt with silicone calk...pillar bedded...fixed factory trigger....sill wouldn't shoot less than 1.5 inches....biggest problem with gun is barrel throat is way long...and internal magazine is so freaking short anything longer than 2.80 won't fit or feed....tried all types of handload and bullets but no great results loaded to the 2.80 oal....THEN ONE DAY!!!! I had loaded up some 130 eld match bullets for my Bergara hmr which will shoot about anything....decided to load to 2.80 because bullet is so short...results I'm my bergara were not overly impressive so instead of taking time to pull the bullets apart decided to just shoot them up in the damn Remington and not dirty up my bergara barrel....after throwing a couple downrange I was shocked....settled down on new target and fired the last 5 into a .35 group...went home and loaded 100 just for the remnington... riflewill repeat these results for 5 shots then barrel get hot and groups open up....havent run this load over the chronograph yet....when something shoots this good don't care how fast it is but good to know so can use ballistic app to figure bullet dope.... took load off hornady app so should be safe in all guns...hornady case neck turned to .013...cci large rifle primers...44 grains Winchester 760...130 gr.eld match...coal. 2.80
Put tuner/brake on both and leave as they are with the chassis and stock. Interesting to see how much the tuner can affect a almost stock rifle, and the tuner can be removed easily to return to stock. Jason answered my question about the rifle jumping during group shots. I was amazed that a chassis would change recoil action that much...learn something new every day.
I’m ready for a fired brass comparison. Is one have more head space then the other or more less free bore. Ect. Sorta could one shoot better with a Eric reload.
My view is that you should just leave the stock on the control rifle, upgrade the bipod and add a tuner brake to both rifles, before adding the Oryx to the control rifle. I just fitted an Oryxto my Tikka ctr in 223 as the stock was providing the comfort or recoil management. Still waiting to shoot it sadly Keep up the good work
Would really like to see measurements done with the OAL/CBTO with a modified case/Hornady OAL gauge for those bullets. Dying to know how much jump they are doing or how far from the lands. We always hear people say that some guns like certain ammo. And so while that Berger is obviously quality stuff, it would be interesting to see some testing done with some other types of ammo and see if anything is a really good match...or really bad. Seeing you discuss options and how a person with a budget rifle wrestles with what step to take for upgrade(s) is satisfying to see someone else confront. Great series & Thanks!! (dammit! now I need to buy a bunch of new chassis!!)
Very keen to see the results of the outcome. I have similar issues with my Howa 1500 in 308 varmint barrel, it shoot like a pig. The standard stock, I can nearly spin it around the barrel, I priced a couple of new stocks today.
Doing as you suggest, now, gives a good step-by-step comparison, so that the "control" is always one step behind... I think that allows for good evaluation of each step
Upgraded trigger vs factory is going to show more what the average person can do then the brake Parts will be similar price but brakes requires more work
Make the exact same changes to the stock rifle, but keep it one step behind the upgraded rifle. You have your control groups to look back on, which appears to be consistent. So, switch the cheap plastic stock to the ORYX Chassis and the same bipod on the control rifle this time, with the EC Tuner Break on this other. Then for the next change, trigger on the upgraded and tuner break on the other.
Ha, I had a Rem 700 adl 243 I put in an oryx chassis. it went from fair to good instantly. Then I upgraded the trigger and it helped a lil more. But then I realized it wasn't worth the $ to upgrade. I went and bought a Bergara for $899 and never looked back. There comes a $$$ point where it's not worth upgrading something that can only get you so far, when you could spend less (after all the upgrades) and have way better. But I had the Rem 700 for a long time and yes the Oryx chassis is a must, then the trigger. I would do the trigger before the brake. Its a small cal rifle.
We had this discussion at our range last week about scope height and I concluded it has to do whether the shooter rests his cheek or his chin on the rifle butt. I prefer my chin and others were happy with their cheek.which can alter the scope height
After you install the chassis on the other gun and install a tuner on the mod gun. You should do hand loads with the stock gun. So we can see how the tuner works vs tuning with seating depth. That would be cool.
I just wish yall did this with a different gun... The last Remington I bought was an 870 Wingmaster and it would lock up after every shot and I had already been burned by several others before that but I wrote them off completely. I have a safe full of old shotguns and rifles I've inherited several of them were made by Remington and they still work perfectly but they ran that company into the ground. I might pick up one of these chassis for my Howa 1500 though they're based on a Remington 700 to my knowledge and it already shoots great for a hunting rifle so might be able to squeeze a little more out of it.
When the Oryx chassis first came out MDT was advertising at least a 20% improvement in shooting.That is why I have one for my Savage 6.5 CM. AND I just put a EC Tuner break on it, but need to get to the range to tune it to some ammo.
I would put a trigger in next. Most people when customising a rifle will do chassis and trigger first then maybe consider a muzzle device. Great series Cortina precision!
What if you go two routes now with each. You know what the stock one will do even with pillar bedding, so you have a base line. So instead of an oryx, put it in a krg bravo or mdt acc or something! Then put a triggertech in one and a bix n Andy in the other. Tuner brake on one and just a brake on the other. Instead of just following each other. Two comparable but different routes. Freaking love this series!!! Epic
Loving this dudes, are you gonna start hand loading for the modded gun as well as tuner. So glad you didn’t go too mad on the chassis and went with a very affordable Orynx. Love the idea of maybe doing a different Make after this (HOWA maybe.) and maybe a different calibre possibly .243 or .270 a more traditional hunting round to show there is live in the old dogs yet. Brilliant guys. (Wales UK)
ok maybe it is just me but when I mount scope rails on by 700 Remington " I have a few of them" I have to bed the back portion of the scope rail to the actions There is always about a .003 to .005 gap between the scope rail and the action at the back portion of the action. That is putting too much tension on the scope rail and the action when torque down to spec. Something to check for!
I know you're not supposed to mess with remington's new triggers but after digging the epoxy out of the adjustment screws was able to safely get pull down to about 2lbs with no grit, creep, and very little overtravel...only tried this as a last resort before throwing away stock trigger
Theoretically, #2 should become the better rifle again with the ORYX chassis. #1 with a tuner should be par with #2 with the ORYX chassis, probably even better. #2 with the ORIX chassis AND a tuner should become AGAIN the better shooter or at least par. However, that is only logical thinking on the expectations. The reality may be something that will surprise everyone. One thing is for sure, whatever is being done it's adding accuracy (and cost) to both rifles and at the end of the day the conclusion might be to buy a higher-end rifle to begin with around the resulting price level of the improved rifles. I'm enjoying this series tremendously and learning a lot from it. Thanks to both of you. Great job!
Eric you are right you say do nothing with the control rifle since it is shooting let’s say very good for factory rifle in a flimsy stock. Both rifles deserve a decent trigger, trigger tech being my favorite. Instead of a chassis I would like to see an AG composite stock. Since the fact that I’ve got three plastic guns that I have fiberglass the four end put 8 ounces of fiberglass in the rear but stock that flowed up to the handguard. Then fill the rest with silicone and packing peanuts. I would like to know if going with a stock for hunting I would’ve been better off to just buy one. All three I change the trigger immediately. Thanks guys keep up the good work. Yes put a tuner on the chassis Rahal let’s see what that does
This really is a good experiment because when you are done with upgrades it may just turn out that investing in a decent custom rifle may actually be the better way to go after you add up all of the costs.
Put the control in the chassis you have to see what happens. No cost, and you’ll know if the upgrade is worth it.
Correct 👍
This series is making me feel confident about my switch from Remington to Ruger for budget rifles.
There is a greater selection of replacement triggers for Remington pattern actions. If all you are doing is live game shooting it may not be as big a factor.
Remingtons are the last rifle I would consider on the shelves right now
Why Krugers r not Remington at all. Junk compared to rem. They shoot good. Good starter rifle for kids and accurate.
I liked the Ruger American so much I ended up with four. Cost/accuracy ratio can't be beat.
Great series taking box standard rifles and comparing upgrades. Something for everyone. Thanks guys 😎
Ruger Americans are the best cheap rifles out there and it's not close right now.
This is awesome!! DONT DO ANYTHING ELSE TO THE CONTROL!! LEAVE #2 AS IS!!
Liking the Creedmoor needs more series.
So far everything done to both of these test subjects can be done by someone at home.
I say do the triggers. Use a timney or a jewel, since both should be relatively easy for anyone to get.
The triggers can be installed at home.
I would test the trigger pull of the factory ones, just to know how bad they really are, then install the new ones and set at 3 or 4 lbs to start.
So far nothing has required a trip to the gunsmith.
Then hand load and tune loads to each rifle.
Then it's time for the trip to the gunsmith for barrel threading and tuner brakes.
I like that you are doing this, it will most definitely help show how a person that either wants to upgrade their hunting rifle, wants to do PRS or F class can get started, without braking the bank or needing a gunsmith, just to get started.
Stay cool in the BBQ pit of south Texas and as others are too, will be waiting for the next video to see what you do.
Thanks
For myself I love what you are doing, huge interest, keep up the good work!
I did a similar project with a Savage Axis in 223. Kept the factory stock just to see what I could do with it. Stiffened up the fore end by bedding in a lattice of short carbon fibre rods salvaged out of a broken kite. Floated the barrel. Filled the shoulder stock with a foam / lead shot / epoxy mix to get the balance better. Rattle can paint job. That was it.
Will it win any comps. No. Accurate enough for small deer, and plinking out to 500m, absolutely it's just about under 1moa. Total spend was under £300 including a scope. 8 years and counting of cheap fun times!
Hope these ones are as much fun.
Edited to include Oxford comma!
Cool project 👍
You haven’t mentioned the weight increase of the Oryx .
I understand where your headed , but soon you will end up with a rifle that weighs nearly twice as much as it did out of the box and that is a component of increased accuracy .
One of the reasons that someone buys that type of rifle is portability and ease of carry in a hunting environment and from personal experience the Oryx changes that entirely.
I realise that the mission is to improve accuracy but in the process you run the risk of forgetting what those rifles really are .
Love the channel and can’t wait for part 3 .
Ken
They aren't trying to make a hunting rifle.
Trigger before tuner. I feel like you should see how accurate you can get the barrel and action, then the last stage is tune the whole configuration. In my opinion, tuning is jumping ahead of some necessary upgrades like a trigger.
Totally agree. Triggers first as some of use cans.
Non-gunsmith options first please.
You’ve got the outcome of two range sessions with the control being basically identical, so I’m for adding the chassis to the control, as you can always refer back to previous results w/o chassis. Plus I’m very curious to see if the control action/barrel are just better for some reason. What if it’s .5 MOA after chassis? Then it’d be cool to see you try to figure out why one is so different from the other.
Was just scrolling down to post the same! Would be curious to see the chassis on the control for a group and then switch it back before continuing on.
Maybe use the Control gun to swap a single part at a time (put on a chassis then switch back to original stock, then test just a trigger or just a tuner, etc.), and use #1 to test the cumulative effect of the upgrades.
Agreed, for me $600 is something but for this series and shooter comfort I can see both having the chassis(since it's not my cash) and then incrementally adding details to experimental, eric cortina tuner/brake first, will be interesting to see what improvement(using match factory ammo), the only other things I can think of improving since the optics are set would be match trigger, custom barrel. maybe show difference between using rear bag and no bag but a sniper can probably adjust and make it shoot good regardless. as a finale maybe have some average shooter use both and see difference?
In my view the point of a control is keep it constant. You know it will under perform, howeverver is that not the point of the experiment. How much better over your stock control system can you improve.
But we already have the results of the control.
Changing any of the stock items the control rifle had just changes the game. Leave the stock on rifle 2 upgrade it bipod, add an EC tuner brake to rifle1 and reboot for the next episode.
After going as far as possible on rifle 1 complete the comparison followed by all the updates onto rifle two and see if it shoots better than rifle one (as you might expect it to)
What about looking to the second hand market for different used factory stocks, wood vs synthetics old vs new. Invest time into the control and money into the other.
@@trickiejohn we already know how the control shot. That data is recorded.
@@graynotescartridgebox , it doesn't matter if you know today. Next time you go out the conditions might change. Then you dont have your control rifle to validate the change. In other words what if you make a change to the other rifle and it's worse? You will need to verify with the controlled rifle that it is actually worse. What if you make a chage to both rifles you don't know.
Leave the 'Control' the control...its already the best of the two out of the box. The goal is still how much better can the other rifle be improved with upgrades. Keep the round count the same on both rifles, but only upgrade #1. Trigger first because that is something anyone can do without needing a gunsmith (an assumption that should be considered with each subsequent upgrade).
Yeah the next mod should be a trigger. Then I'd use JB Compound and JB Bright to polish the barrel bore. I outfitted my .308 SPS Varmint with a HS Precision stock, Timney Trigger, and JB'd the shit out of the barrel and took a 1.5 MOA rifle to a consistent 1/3 MOA rifle after extensive load development. It can be done and I learned a lot in the process.
agree about leaving the control alone...other than perhaps testing other ammos on each of them. See if things stay the same between the two with; hunting rounds, vs. match, vs tipped, vs. fmj.
@@MC-wh6xk never heard of this before. Thanks for the input & going to try to learn something.
Keep the control rifle completely stock. The whole purpose of it being control is to measure the improvement of the other rifle's mods.
I would alternate guns between groups
More time for cooling and less “fatigue” induced “inaccuracy”
1 barrel and blueprint
2. Trigger
3. Stock and bedding
4. Send it to me for extensive testing.
Great comparison showing the two! I'm interested to see the tuner performance.
Quick question on the chassis stock, the barrel lug is really wide for older Rem 700. Is bedding needed? Thank you
@@mackellyman5642 No bedding is needed; the chassis is meant to support a wide variety of lugs, including the factory one.
I am very curious as to what the effectiveness of hand lapping the barrels would be on these 2 Remingtons. Hand lapping has a very proven track record for shrinking groups, however it is one of the most overlooked steps in tightening group size on new rifles. I look forward to watching more from you guys.
Works like a charm. But I like getting them new before shot.
have a similar reminton rifle and a bergara hmr pro in 6.5 creedmoor.....the barrel on the bergara is lapped the Remington is not...when you push a cleaning patch through the barrels you can really feel the difference....copper cleans out the bergara barrel in just a few patches...the Remington takes forever to get copper out..have seriously been thinking about lapping barrel...gonna give it a few more rounds and see if it settles in...once had Remington rifle that took almost 200 rounds to break in and settle down
@@michaellankford8358 I never shoot a new barrel before I lapp it in anything. My brand new 300 ultramarine was filthy with rust and small metal burs from tooling. I cleaned on it for a long time before scoping it. I was amazed how crappy it was. So I lapped the hell out of it, then took metal polish on a brass brush and a patch wrapped around it and polished the heck out of it untill it felt smooth as silk. It shoots .25" groups
I am building a 1965 Rem 700 ADL right now. .30-06.Just pillar bedded and free floated the barrel. Then cut barrel threads today and ordered an EC tuner. Ordered a Limbsaver recoil pad to replace the old hard one.
I have a Remington 700 Magpul in 260 Remington. It shoots same hole at 50 yards right out of the box!!! I don't have a 100 yard range here and haven't been out to the farm lately. It seems like if your going to keep one rifle as a control then you should leave it as stock as possible.
Love the 260 Remington...
@@awbernardy me to, I think it is my most accurate rifle. And I don't worry about the stores not having ammo because I have lots of empty 308 brass. I just made me up a bunch of 140 grain SSTs yesterday.
I have a ser of Ruger American Predators in .243 & 6.5cm.
The 243 RAP has turned I to my favorite hunting rifle with a Burris XTR scope! . Due to a military training accident back in 2000 it has effected the way I shoot because I can't bend my wrist. So pistol grip stocks have become my go to fix. I had got the Magpul stocks for the both, and didn't shoot the 6.5 much. Got an MDT chassis for one and swamped around and loved it. A yr or two later I missed getting another but seen the Oryx, so I bought it and put it on the 243. The comfort, and allow me to shoot without having to use my middle finger for trigger.
They are still an expense to get, but the comfort and bassass factor are worth it. Yes, they both created the accuracy to improve. I use a suppressor so the only mod I can do is trigger.
I took a Browning BR3 pilar beded it and got the trigger spring and brought the poundage down, and shooting a hunting bullet 129 grn flat base spire point Hornady and average speed of 2963 fps muzzle,and the average group size of .750 at 100 yards some times .5 this with H414 powder and 45.5 grains, and topped the rifle with a Leopold 3.5× 10 now this is a great hunting rifle and 450 out the door for the rifle and add the scope,bedding compounds, so ruffley 1000$ gun, I just don't see many even talk much about this rifle that is in the 6.5 CM, I see alot testing different rifle makers but they seem to always miss this one for some reason just saying,well that's enough of my rambling,you're doing great videos and showing good stuff so keep on making smoke and aim small.
GOD bless the great USA !
I used to shoot a lot of surplus rifles with 8. 9. Pound triggers, I used to used my middle finger on the trigger and my trigger finger over my middle finger. He's right about heavy triggers.
Great vids!!!
I am really enjoying this series. I am a poor boy that is learning where to put my money for major improvements. Thank You
Tunner brake on both, see how it affects the chassis vs plastic.
Then chassis on both and trigger on one.
I, recently, decided to move my scopes higher up due to the fact I have a somewhat long neck and adjustable cheekpieces on my competition stocks.
It's about what's comfortable as mentioned.
The Oryx chassis is a great upgrade. I have put one on my 6mm creedmore ruger american and just got one for my 17 hmr. For the price, a great upgrade
I’m surprised you can’t adjust that trigger???? I have 1960’s 7 rem mag that I’m accurizing, updating….. I adjusted the trigger and put a tuner brake on it and I’ve tuned factory ammo to 1/4 moa at 500 yards. Next move is cerekote and Magpul hunting stock…. Then it will be done. It was shooting 2 moa when I started. 22 inch sported barrel. Not sure how any serious shooter doesn’t have an EC Tuner Brake. Thanks for what you do Eric!!! Your spot on. This is going to be a must see for any gun guy. You’re going to be 1/4 moa when your done!
I like this series so far. Keep'em coming. This is what I use to unwind
Only other thing I would ask for, is maybe swap guns in between groups. To keep you from getting too comfortable on one or the other
The chassis alone you can tell makes a huge difference, because the stock gun looks like it’s trying to jump right out of your hands
I would put the tuner on the non-chassis gun and put a trigger in the chassis gun. My reasoning is you could see the trigger would make that gun shoot better. Plus you know a tuner will improve groups anyway. I do like this series, keep up the good content.
I agree with planefun42, tuner on the control & trigger on chassis gun.
Triggers are relatively easy to do. I’d be inclined to change triggers first and save the tuner brakes to the end. The tuner brakes are the ultimate way to fine tune for accuracy. Stocks and triggers are basic things guys can do without gunsmith help.
Your video with the Oryx chassis came at just the right time. I'm putting together a rifle, for local club shoots, all amateurs, out to three hundred yards. I'm about settled on a Remington trued 700 action, Krieger barrel, Oryx chassis, and a Jewel trigger, in 6mm br. That's about what my budget will allow. Wondered what you thought about my choices.
Thank you for having the best channel out here. Professionally done, with great content.
I bought a 700 ADL Tactical in 6.5 needmore with a 24” varmint contour barrel from dicks sporting goods a couple years ago for $419. It has the cheapo stock, same as theirs. I knew the stock was cheap but the barrel and action alone was worth the price. Out of the box it shot a 1/2 group at 100 yards. I was very surprised to say the least. I want to put it in a better stock or chassis as well. You might look for one of these if you can still find them or maybe a used one. With all the Remington bankruptcy stuff I don’t know if their still available. Worth a shot though.
The Oryx Chassis cost more than my entire rifle with scope. Geez.
Great series guys. Thanks for sharing.
Put a trigger in the control and leave the “needs more” as it is for the next round. That way they’re constantly chasing each other… in theory if the trigger upgrade does have an effect on the control
Concur with the assessment on the control group - lots of lateral on the gun under recoil and it’s right there on the target. The comfort factor provided noticeably better recoil management on the Oryx… might be some added mass at play there too. Great to see such a stark example of why having a decent stock/chassis matters… and what the impact of a cheap/crap stock can do to even a good rifle.
Changing the "control" rifle means it is no longer a "control". The advantage you have is that even if you do improve the "control", you have records of two sessions with it as the "control".
Finally some science and not just bro’ science .
Re control vs. Upgrades, My advice, no keep the control gun consistent , the same.
When you have the modified gun ‘ where you want it’ and it no longer needs work, then make all the changes to the control rifle at one time…
And then see how it compares…
Love the series, great idea.
Mr. Cortina, I really enjoyed this 6.5 need more series and thank you for creating such an awesome content. I hope you can make another series like this. I just recently bought your EC breaker tuner for my rifle and planning to test it out. I have not changed nor modified the factory stock. I want to ask you a few questions. May I ask why did you pick ORYX chassis? Is it because it is the least expensive but it has the most features? Would you be able to compare some of the best chassis? Would you mind changing chassis only with this setup and show how they can lead to a better groupings without the tuner?
I like your plan. Upgrade the plastic stock to the Oryx and put a tuner on the rifle with the Oryx on it. I'm interested to see the EC tuner break in action. This is a good series.
Just got the Oryx for my Savage 308 tactical. Only down fall is my gun weighs 15lb.s now ,but lucky I don't have to walk but 150 yards to my deer stand. Great stock and will be getting another for my Rem.700 223.
I've had a few sps Remington 700's
I always free float them and epoxy bed them from sling stud to action. Really stiffens that crappy stock. I also lapp the barrel before shooting it, then polish.
I normally get well under 1" usually 1/2" groupings. From thier load development to bring it in tighter. This has given me repeatedly good results. Even my 300 ultra has shot .25 groups at 100. But your nerves do get rattled after 10 or so shots. I did end up installing a whitt Machine clamp on brake that tames this down but ive not checked groups since.
Lapping.... That is one thing that I have found many times over that often has a substantial effect on production rifle barrels.
@@CJ-ty8sv Me too, especially with Remington SPS barrels. If you bore scope that thing, out of the box, like looking at a dumpster fire. But, with a little love and patience, they clean up nicely. Also, blueprinting the action and barrel face.
For a budget comparison, my Savage Axis is a $250 used gun in a $100 clearance priced gen 1 MDT LSS with about a $60 magazine, a $40 grip and I think about $200 for an ICD folding stock, a $250 pre-cut barrel, a $150 barrel nut/recoil lug system, and about $170 for the Glades fluted bolt sleeve, bolt handle and a delrin bolt knob I liked. I think the Leupold 7075 scope rail was around $40 and there is a few dollars of Devcon 10110 bedding in it, a spring I stole out of a $0.10 retractable ball point pen and $3-4.00 of shim washers to remove most of the side-to-side slop in the trigger.
That's around $1,400 with a scope rail but no scope and no rings. The bolt stuff is nice but mostly cosmetic. The folder is at least $100 more than I had to spend and the grip could be an A2 discarded from an AR parts kit if i wanted to be cheap so $1,100 is the real baseline. I did get a deal on the chassis but I've seen better deals on donor actions so I think that's a wash.
I'm not saying you have to go that way or that your idea to use the Oryx for a full custom build later won't work, just that there are cheaper options that let you get all of the goodies for close to the same price as a Remington in a chassis. Also, beside facing my receiver after I cut it for a 110 style barrel lug, all of the work was DIY with basic hand tools. I could have faced and flattened my receiver with some feeler gauges and a flat stone if I wanted to be 100% DIY friendly but I like lathes.
If you must have a top tier trigger like a Bix-n-Andy or Triggertech, the Savage doesn't have those options but if you are ok with a spring swapped and shimmed Accu-trigger, it's a neat project.
I have a 7mag sps , the 1st load i tried after break in shot .226 3 shot group
All that was ever changed was trigger and firing pin .
4-14 leupold.
A very special little rifle
Slow down here!!!! Why not rig up the control like a low budget hunter would. Low rings and a cheek pad like the hornady stock pack. Get comfortable at a budget . Adjust trigger if it’s an xmark adjustable trigger. Your comparison is going to end up as 2 heavily modified rifles. That’s a different comparison then we started with. Bring up the comb with a cheek piece, bring down the scoope with the lowest set up you can use with the scope. Lighten up the trigger if possible then the comparison is still legit. Mod vs stock. The groups are still even at this point. Let’s get a winner here first then catch up the control gun and do it in a way that we can see what mod makes the biggest difference. Is it the tuner brake, stock, trigger.
I just did the same thing with my Remington 300 Blackout only I went with a KRG Bravo chassis. It was factory stocked with the Hogue rubbery stock that I attempted to glass a reinforcing rod in the fore end. It still flexed so bad the stock would contact the barrel just the weight of the rifle with the suppressor attached when supported with a bipod. The first thing I did when I got this rifle was replace the trigger with a Timney however the chassis didn't change the accuracy but the rifle is way more comfortable to shoot and I can attach it to a tripod via the arca rail I added to the KRG. I like the looks of that Oryx chassis might have been a better choice for me.
How well does that feed in the krg bravo? What mags do you use? I'm looking at getting a 300 blackout barrel for my r700
@@newerest1 I replied the other day but for some reason maybe it didn't send. I use MDT magazines I got from Midway that are for .223 or 300 BO. I have had a couple of jams from the short BO bullets that go too high entering the chamber. If you work the bolt aggressively they run fine.
Keep the control gun standard, but develop a load for it. Upgrade the oryx with ec tuner with standard Berger ammo. Then upgrade trigger on oryx and lastly develop load with ec tuner to dial it in 100%. The layman can then see what the capability of a standard rifle with load development is, and compare it to a tricked out rifle with ec tuner and developed load. That will be great.
I've had great luck with Howa 1500s in 308. I just bought a 6.5 with a 16" heavy barrel, I'm in the process of my regular upgrades, and a couple of new ones🤞
I'm enjoying this series!!!
I bought a Howa 6.5 Need more. Went straight into a chassis. Shoots great
I’m not surprised the fudds were out in force about scope height. I don’t know why shooter comfort and ergonomics are such a difficult concept to grasp for some ;-).
I am enjoying this. A couple of questions. You bought hunting rifles, what does the chassis weigh? Is it too heavy for the intended purpose? Or are we changing the purpose of the rifles? Both guns after beding will work as a deer rifle out to 250 yds. If we are going for a target rifle, maybe we started in wrong place. Many people ask "what gun should I buy" 1st question, what do you want to do with it? Keep up the good work.
Definitely a difference in the way the recoil displaced the gun between the two, not sure if the chassis or the bipod was the difference, but, it was visible. He had to reset the gun every time he shot with the Rem stock.
Yup, significantly better recoil management with the Oryx.
I bought a used Savage 110 in needsmore! With the factory stock it shot a consistent 3/4” groups. Because of this test, I have mounted it in a Oryx chassis. Even though I have not shot it yet, the gun just feels more comfortable. Hopefully, I can get out to the range today and test it out. I can’t afford a more expensive weapon, so just trying to make this one a little better. I will order a tuner brake as my finances allow.
Really liking how this series is going, great information gained already. I’m gonna have to look into getting one of those chassis
Good stuff.
Fifteen shots with a one minute break after ten. Would think those sporter barrels were too hot to touch after the first five shots. They must be screaming hot during that third five shot string. Would need at least 15 to 20 minutes to start to cool down. That’s my experience anyway shooting in the same heat. And that’s with having some shade on the rifle. But maybe that’s the torture test you want to put them through.
We really need to get a camera on the targets.
Go ahead and put tuner brakes on both.
You guys are great. Appreciate your content.
This is a pretty great series. I used to shoot a lot but frankly, we're well into a second decade of component/supply shortages so now I never shoot and haven't for some time. Looking forward to getting back into it if I don't die first. Can't wait to see how this needs-more turns out.
I got lucky with my heavy barrel savage axis in .223, thing shot .75 moa out the box with decent 69gr ammo. I put it in an oryx chassis and have shot a couple sub .25 MOA groups with handloads but very little load development. Basically I took a shot in the dark and picked a random loading for a 69gr smk and after one ladder test was shooting .4 moa easily, and .25 moa when I do my job behind the rifle. I love the oryx chassis but I couldnt deal with the ODG panels on it so I coughed up the 40 bucks or whatever it was to get the black panels for the chassis.
PLEASE list the part numbers for all the add-ons (bipod, chassis, scope and scope mount, etc.) that you ue on both guns. Some of us are building along with you...
Thank you guys ! I love this series of videos . 👍👍👍
Cool series! Learning a lot! Chassis gun looks super stable now
So how about this? Every week (or whatever) do something new to No 1, AND add last week's mod to No 2. Love the series!
Great series. I can hardly wait for the next episode. Good information. Keep em coming.
I think you should leave #2 as is for now. That way we can see how 'Much-Moor' improvement the modifications provide.
IMHO, this is the best gun series on TH-cam right now, so forget the haters. This series will showcase how much a Rem 700 can be customized, so I suggest keeping the control in factory condition as much as possible. That way we can see the disdain in Jason's face while shooting the factory rifle grow as the series progresses.
Do you plan on blueprinting the action and adding a match barrel?
I’m drooling over the primers & powder on the shelf
That ORYX Chassis is very impressive for the price. Great series! I've been down this path before. A pressure point on that Tupperware stock would have been a complete waste of time. A new trigger would be a huge improvement. More so than the tuner imho, but we shall see!
Hi, leave control gun in stock chassi, add the EC Tuner Break and see if you can chase the 2nd ruffles performances.
great video
look forward to next upgrades.
When this project is over you should put the control rifle into a $250 Boyds stock and bed it. Then do another comparison.
Thanks for doing this , great concept, great series…
I would suggest that you upgrades in order of price or affordability, ie do the cheaper things first…
Check the free floating, and fix that, trigger, you addressed that, Put Aluminium pillow beds in the stock, stock cheek weld, etc.
start with inexpensive, then ramp up to expensive. I think shooting accuracy is a lot about price.
On the other hand , when I was looking for a new stock for my 1984 Winchester mod 70 xtr, ONYX was the first place I tried.
ONYX said they didn’t make a chassis to fit that gun….BOO HOO
have similar Remington rifle..worst shooting remington have ever owned...tried everything could think of....floated barrel...filled forearm with epoxy...butt with silicone calk...pillar bedded...fixed factory trigger....sill wouldn't shoot less than 1.5 inches....biggest problem with gun is barrel throat is way long...and internal magazine is so freaking short anything longer than 2.80 won't fit or feed....tried all types of handload and bullets but no great results loaded to the 2.80 oal....THEN ONE DAY!!!! I had loaded up some 130 eld match bullets for my Bergara hmr which will shoot about anything....decided to load to 2.80 because bullet is so short...results I'm my bergara were not overly impressive so instead of taking time to pull the bullets apart decided to just shoot them up in the damn Remington and not dirty up my bergara barrel....after throwing a couple downrange I was shocked....settled down on new target and fired the last 5 into a .35 group...went home and loaded 100 just for the remnington... riflewill repeat these results for 5 shots then barrel get hot and groups open up....havent run this load over the chronograph yet....when something shoots this good don't care how fast it is but good to know so can use ballistic app to figure bullet dope.... took load off hornady app so should be safe in all guns...hornady case neck turned to .013...cci large rifle primers...44 grains Winchester 760...130 gr.eld match...coal. 2.80
Put tuner/brake on both and leave as they are with the chassis and stock. Interesting to see how much the tuner can affect a almost stock rifle, and the tuner can be removed easily to return to stock. Jason answered my question about the rifle jumping during group shots. I was amazed that a chassis would change recoil action that much...learn something new every day.
I like how you two have fun trying this , im building a dasher on a bat action and a elite chassis
I’m ready for a fired brass comparison. Is one have more head space then the other or more less free bore. Ect. Sorta could one shoot better with a Eric reload.
My view is that you should just leave the stock on the control rifle, upgrade the bipod and add a tuner brake to both rifles, before adding the Oryx to the control rifle. I just fitted an Oryxto my Tikka ctr in 223 as the stock was providing the comfort or recoil management. Still waiting to shoot it sadly
Keep up the good work
I’d like to see how good the control rifle will shoot with no upgrades except a tuner break.
Would really like to see measurements done with the OAL/CBTO with a modified case/Hornady OAL gauge for those bullets. Dying to know how much jump they are doing or how far from the lands. We always hear people say that some guns like certain ammo. And so while that Berger is obviously quality stuff, it would be interesting to see some testing done with some other types of ammo and see if anything is a really good match...or really bad.
Seeing you discuss options and how a person with a budget rifle wrestles with what step to take for upgrade(s) is satisfying to see someone else confront. Great series & Thanks!!
(dammit! now I need to buy a bunch of new chassis!!)
Very keen to see the results of the outcome. I have similar issues with my Howa 1500 in 308 varmint barrel, it shoot like a pig. The standard stock, I can nearly spin it around the barrel, I priced a couple of new stocks today.
Thank you for sharing your research.
At about the 9:40 mark, I can't quite belive just how consistent the shooters body position is. Lot of hours behind the trigger there.
Doing as you suggest, now, gives a good step-by-step comparison, so that the "control" is always one step behind... I think that allows for good evaluation of each step
Upgraded trigger vs factory is going to show more what the average person can do then the brake
Parts will be similar price but brakes requires more work
Make the exact same changes to the stock rifle, but keep it one step behind the upgraded rifle. You have your control groups to look back on, which appears to be consistent. So, switch the cheap plastic stock to the ORYX Chassis and the same bipod on the control rifle this time, with the EC Tuner Break on this other. Then for the next change, trigger on the upgraded and tuner break on the other.
I’ve got howa 1500 in 6mm creedmore with a howa krg stock I bought it just when they were phasing it out. I’m so glad that I was able to get one.
Ha, I had a Rem 700 adl 243 I put in an oryx chassis. it went from fair to good instantly. Then I upgraded the trigger and it helped a lil more. But then I realized it wasn't worth the $ to upgrade. I went and bought a Bergara for $899 and never looked back. There comes a $$$ point where it's not worth upgrading something that can only get you so far, when you could spend less (after all the upgrades) and have way better. But I had the Rem 700 for a long time and yes the Oryx chassis is a must, then the trigger. I would do the trigger before the brake. Its a small cal rifle.
I think you should leave the control rifle as is so that you have a direct point of comparison for how far it improves from a standard box stock spec.
We had this discussion at our range last week about scope height and I concluded it has to do whether the shooter rests his cheek or his chin on the rifle butt.
I prefer my chin and others were happy with their cheek.which can alter the scope height
After you install the chassis on the other gun and install a tuner on the mod gun. You should do hand loads with the stock gun. So we can see how the tuner works vs tuning with seating depth. That would be cool.
I just wish yall did this with a different gun... The last Remington I bought was an 870 Wingmaster and it would lock up after every shot and I had already been burned by several others before that but I wrote them off completely. I have a safe full of old shotguns and rifles I've inherited several of them were made by Remington and they still work perfectly but they ran that company into the ground. I might pick up one of these chassis for my Howa 1500 though they're based on a Remington 700 to my knowledge and it already shoots great for a hunting rifle so might be able to squeeze a little more out of it.
Most people run their scopes too low in the mistaken belief that lower is better. You need quite a low comb to allow for a low profile mount.
When the Oryx chassis first came out MDT was advertising at least a 20% improvement in shooting.That is why I have one for my Savage 6.5 CM. AND I just put a EC Tuner break on it, but need to get to the range to tune it to some ammo.
Is it the Savage Axis II? If so what thread did you order? I've looked at the specs from Savage and didn't see the right one on Erics website.
I think if you put both in the same chassis, it would be awesome to see the only difference be the triggers
I would put a trigger in next. Most people when customising a rifle will do chassis and trigger first then maybe consider a muzzle device.
Great series Cortina precision!
What if you go two routes now with each. You know what the stock one will do even with pillar bedding, so you have a base line. So instead of an oryx, put it in a krg bravo or mdt acc or something! Then put a triggertech in one and a bix n Andy in the other. Tuner brake on one and just a brake on the other. Instead of just following each other. Two comparable but different routes. Freaking love this series!!! Epic
Loving this dudes, are you gonna start hand loading for the modded gun as well as tuner. So glad you didn’t go too mad on the chassis and went with a very affordable Orynx.
Love the idea of maybe doing a different Make after this (HOWA maybe.) and maybe a different calibre possibly .243 or .270 a more traditional hunting round to show there is live in the old dogs yet. Brilliant guys. (Wales UK)
ok maybe it is just me but when I mount scope rails on by 700 Remington " I have a few of them" I have to bed the back portion of the scope rail to the actions There is always about a .003 to .005 gap between the scope rail and the action at the back portion of the action. That is putting too much tension on the scope rail and the action when torque down to spec. Something to check for!
In my view, the triggers should be next. It would be nice if you went from cheapest to most expensive upgrades. Just my view.
I know you're not supposed to mess with remington's new triggers but after digging the epoxy out of the adjustment screws was able to safely get pull down to about 2lbs with no grit, creep, and very little overtravel...only tried this as a last resort before throwing away stock trigger
Theoretically, #2 should become the better rifle again with the ORYX chassis. #1 with a tuner should be par with #2 with the ORYX chassis, probably even better. #2 with the ORIX chassis AND a tuner should become AGAIN the better shooter or at least par. However, that is only logical thinking on the expectations. The reality may be something that will surprise everyone. One thing is for sure, whatever is being done it's adding accuracy (and cost) to both rifles and at the end of the day the conclusion might be to buy a higher-end rifle to begin with around the resulting price level of the improved rifles. I'm enjoying this series tremendously and learning a lot from it. Thanks to both of you. Great job!
Eric you are right you say do nothing with the control rifle since it is shooting let’s say very good for factory rifle in a flimsy stock. Both rifles deserve a decent trigger, trigger tech being my favorite. Instead of a chassis I would like to see an AG composite stock. Since the fact that I’ve got three plastic guns that I have fiberglass the four end put 8 ounces of fiberglass in the rear but stock that flowed up to the handguard. Then fill the rest with silicone and packing peanuts. I would like to know if going with a stock for hunting I would’ve been better off to just buy one. All three I change the trigger immediately. Thanks guys keep up the good work. Yes put a tuner on the chassis Rahal let’s see what that does
This really is a good experiment because when you are done with upgrades it may just turn out that investing in a decent custom rifle may actually be the better way to go after you add up all of the costs.