Product Review: Decent DE1+ Espresso Machine
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2024
- Here's an overview of my thoughts on the Decent DE1+.
If you want a look at my first video on the machine then it's here:
• First Look: Decent DE1...
Note: I mention an issue with the cable - a fix is already underway: / bprpjndbbjv
There's still a lot more to cover about this machine, so there'll probably be more videos in the future. Let me know what you want to see! - บันเทิง
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Hi mr Hoffmann,
I agree with your points about the machine - especially the Analysis Paralysis part. I initially thought this would be easier than it is. I've made espresso at home for several years and it is a hobby. But this machine, with the profiles, can behave in thousands of ways. And when you try to keep up with a small change in a profile, which means adjusting the grind, amount of coffee etc... it can be a bit too much.
But that is also _exactly_ the point of this machine. You can get so much more information about what is going on and adjust to that. And you'll learn a lot. So patience _is_ needed but only if you want. See, I think this _could_ be as simple as a GS/3, if you want. You can choose _not_ to fiddle with profiles, pick one of the easier ones, set your grind to it and just press the espresso-button and be done with it.
But I do miss buttons.
Anyway - excellent video, as always, and I'm looking forward to hear more about coffee.
Thanks James
5:00 there is a new feature, that make this possible. You can adjust flow or pressure restrictions. Like don’t go above 9bar. Limit flow to 2ms and so one. That way you get good coffee out of it every time. Afterwards you can see your data on the screen and adjust it to be even better.
Example: flow restricted to 2 ms. Coffee comes out at 2ms. Taste good, but on the Graf you can see that the pressure went only to 5bar. Grind a little bit finer. Repeat the process. Now flow is 2ms but pressure went up to 9bar. Perfect 🤩
Just a example
Thank you for putting in the effort, time and knowledge to create some amazing, honest, great quality videos.
5:15 what a honest comment. I am a 3rd wave barista too, and I am happy that I found your videos, reliable and proved guides, you are a great person James
I just ordered mine and i am excited. After mulling over what feels like every possible option, this seemed like a no brainer.
what do you think of your machine? do the vibe pumps make less-tasty shots?
I'm torn between wanting to completely geek out on this machine and learning everything I can on espresso and it's future potential and wanting a beautiful, E61, blingy, eye-catching decorative piece with slightly more intuitive and potentially unreproducible capabilities like the Lelit Bianca. For me, espresso machine functionality and aesthetics have always held nearly equal sway.
I imagine the La Pavoni Europicola or even an Olympia Cremina (although thats much larger than the LP) and this would pair really nicely together. Old school lever + new school PID *chefs kiss*
As usual... another great review. However, in fairness to the Decent it has been close to two years since your last Decent review. I can appreciate your reservations on doing reviews on the Decent, because as you have stated previously... you don't typically drink espresso nor do you even have an espresso machine in your home! That said, many of look to you for your wisdom and honest feedback, both good and bad. As you know the Decent V1.4 now has buttons "so to speak" an option that was not available on the model you last reviewed. Granted a lot of the key points you outlined in your last video still apply, i.e., the potential for complexity, the weird non espresso machine sounds it makes, that it's not a miracle machine that makes excellent espresso every single time but rather is capable of making some really bad espresso just as well. Maybe just a short 3 to 5 minute recap covering any new highlights (or lack thereof) as well as suggesting that people watch this video should they be looking for further insight.
I was definitely hoping to see it in action more. It would be great to see a video of you sharing some of the most interesting profiles you have come up with and how they affect the extraction process. Let's see some experiments! Cheers
Wow thats a pretty crazy setup! Thanks for the review - I've been learning a lot from your videos!
Thanks for all you do for the coffee audience! Amazing content! I've been in this hobby for 10+ years and very few can deliver quality info about coffee and coffee making like you. Please do a follow-up on the decent espresso machine...and on good home roasting machines and roasting coffee. Thanks in advance!
When I used this machine at the MICE earlier this year I thought it had one clear use: training. For people that run barista training, and want to move from basics to more advanced espresso making, the extra data and transparency in what's actually going on in the puck is super helpful. I can't imagine seeing a decent on bar any time soon, but in training spaces, heck yes!
This looks to me like a great training tool. It is difficult as a trainer to create the visualisation of the process currently so I look forward to adding this to my training armoury one day.
And the case is great - I can envisage barista trainers all over the world packing their change of clothes somewhere in that box for an overnight training session somewhere :)
Great video James
Cheers
Hi James, thank you very much for the review. Your work is amazing.
I'd really love to see a further video about the decent machine..
if i ever win the lottery, first thing im doing is paying this guy to make me the best coffee of my life
You could just fly to Square Mile Coffee in London…
I'd bed him to do it in this narrative style with all the faces he makes haha. He's got like big bird vibes. In the best way possible haha
I would love that. Just love to go into square mile with him and have him dial in a bunch of coffees and try them. Also I want to try his morning coffee brew he makes (or used to make) on his sage precision.
@KWC Coin excellent question. Just in case it is interesting, I went to square mile, and had a pour over that was the best of my life. The beans were “sweet valley” from Manhattan in Rotterdam.
wow.. just came back here after watching your video today on a nespresso. your videos have refined so much especially with the sound quality
Hey James,
could you make the update video you suggested at the end? I would be super interested to see where the journey is going!
Hi James! This is Shin from Decent espresso again!
Firstly, thanks for this great review! I really enjoy watching your youtube videos! And this one is the second one about our product! So exciting
And secondly, I'm wondering if it's okay for you that I put korean subtitle on this video. Plus I edit the video to put Korean subtitle for uploading on facebook and korean community. And of course I'll link this video to let people know where the original video comes from.
Thanks!
Thanks James, interesting stuff. I've been intrigued & attracted to the Decent machines, but haven't bought due to availability time-scales. Treated myself to an ACS Vesuvius with pressure profiling capability. It's a wonderful piece of kit. Wish I could find more profile data to try out on it however. Love your videos btw.
This is an old product review so maybe no one is looking at it anymore. I'll make a long story short. During my ten month espresso journey, I had seen the Decent and thought it was a weird looking laboratory machine. It wasn't long after I made a significant investment in a prosumer machine that I saw this product review. I started looking at everything I could find and decided the Decent has my name on it. So I sold my four month old machine and as of this moment I'm about a week away from receiving my DE1PRO. I've made a commitment to myself not to let the Decent become a black hole but to use it wisely... As I wait for my machine I'm already part of the owner's community (the Diaspora) and it is great. The commitment of John Buckman and the Disapora is that everyone with a Decent will make "decent" espresso. Thanks James!!
Great review, as always James thank you.
*We just retired a 10 year old Keurig, similar to the new one **MyBest.Kitchen** the old one had a LCD display, but this new one seems like it is a little better as far as features. Turn it on, load it up, press the button and wait for the cup to fill. Much quieter than the old one. The amount*
Thank you James for another excellent insightful review. I’m tempted with the DE1 but nervous about becoming even more OCD about my coffee making. Having mastered my E61 so I can produce good coffee I am trying to resist the temptation of becoming even more of a coffee geek. We will see!
my only hesitation for me! my OCD would go insane with the decent. did you get it?
Resistence is futile.
Another vote for an updated review please. So many new profiles and features, it would be great to see what you think now.
Just discovered your channel - enjoying it very much. I shared it on my favourite social media platform - Vero - only to find you are on there too. I look forward to seeing you on there as we have a great interactive community who definitely love their coffees!
I really considered this machine and the big things for me was the quality and finish of a machine at this price point (it’s developed by a software engineer and not a mechanical engineer), some of the finishing for me was not upto standard and felt like an advanced prototype rather than a production unit. Also for me you are buying into a product that is still in development, so you as a customer will be used to develop it and test the longer term robustness of the machine. It’s a very very exciting and cleaver product and hats off to Decent for releasing it.
hundreds of consumers, eager adopters no less, will give Decent far more useful feedback than a handful of internal testers would, and far faster. John and crew have designed the machine from the ground up for longevity (and also have a cafe-focused model in the works with upgraded components for non stop use). Decent's at V1.1 machines now with V1.3 planned for summer 2019. So while it is still "in development", the improvements in firmware and software have already vastly improved my V1.0 machine in the 6 months I've owned it, and it started off from an excellent position.
Hi James, any chance you would review the 1.4 ? A revisit if you will. I believe I've seen the machine on your desk in recent videos, I'm awful close to "pulling the trigger."
100% would love a revisit on this
I've been loving my DE1+ -- the shot repeatability is unparalleled to any other machine I've used. Although my experiences with flow profiling haven't been great. For some reason, a grind that works great with pressure profiling will cause the machine to go up past 11bar (beyond the top of the scale) and choke the machine. It baffles me.
Figured it out yet?
@@TheDJRiffin They're still refining it with software updates, the machine can get stuck in negative feedback loops and it spits out garbage as a result.
@@Nevermindthrbrewmethod gotcha.
Like the machine is expecting a higher flow, so it ramps up the pressure which chokes it even more sort of a deal?
I like to imagine that when James gets near a Decent machine, it's like someone just started a game of Civilizations and suddenly disappears from the face of the earth for a couple of days.
Can you revisit this machine after 4 years?
I have just recently sold my example of one of the first Londinium machines from 2012, a very nice machine which seems to have become more and more complex since then. If I decide to buy another espresso maker, I will be looking at the Strietman.
Im not sure if I care about the data. We track so much information already. I love waking up and using my Rocket Appartamento and just focusing on 1.5oz in about 25 seconds. That's all I need.
Amazing review as always.
yes. But many of us do not track data like others, and many of us have been smart to resist even moderate use of the phone-as-browser/social-media-device etc, and many of us also do not use wearable health devices.
Wait, you dont have a espresso machine at home, that’s the reason I came to you: I was looking for a daily espresso driver 😂
Yeah James saved me a ton of money. After looking at his reviews and videos, I decided to just buy a moka pot (already had an acceptable grinder). I'm quite happy with the decision.
Don't forget he was World Barista Champion and tests espresso machines almost on the daily of all sorts and types, so him not wanting to deal with espresso at home is completely understandable when it's his job to dial-in and test 😂
This is so cool! The possibilities are endless. It can potentially be operated remotely. Or get a recipe sent right to the unit. Collaboration in real time from across the world. So rad! Cheers! ⬛️
I'm using decent espresso De1+ V1.3. It has head controller. Great features I think.
James, 5 years later I'm just now watching this. Do you still not have or want an espresso machine at home? What is your most preferred method for doing coffee at home and why? Has anything changed in your preferences since you made this video?
Very good question, that‘s also on my mind. A lot has changed on hard- and software, and l‘d love an updated video
@James Hoffmann, do you think its time for an updated review if you still have the decent?
James what camera do you film with? The intros are always amazing
Hey man, really love your videos. As a coffee and barista expert such as yourself, what's your top recommended espresso machine you would suggest for someone at home. I really would appreciate your input since you definitely know what your talking about.
I keep watching the b-roll again and again
Have Decent, by now, created within the software a simple mode? Whereby when in the simple mode you have very few options. Basically you power it on, press start, stop and steam. The buttons may be slighly bigger than usual. Or possibly bloom, start, stop, steam.
I was considering this machine. Having seen you review, I think not. I just want to make a coffee and get on with my day
Hi James, which machine would you choose to create your most perfect espresso?
Hey fella, it would be good to have an update on your view of the Decent DE1 Pro (the current basic machine) - Come on, you know you want to!! 😁🧡
this is probably an odd question, but where do u get those banging instrumentals? Thanks
James, if you have an option to pick up machine 1- Decent DE1 2- La Marzocco linea mini, which one you would pick?
I picked the decent 😊
Look no more guys, it’s a $3400 machine, and obviously it’s the most inexpensive option among the DecentEspresso product lines
In electronic field, we got a term “software defined” mean the outcome is heavily dependent on how we program the hardware. For example you can receive a airport ATC radio with a digital TV USB just with different software. This is exactly a software defined espresso.
Can you do an updated review
I have to - irony - point to one thing in the "Seattle School of Software Engineering": 'it's in the next release.'
I'm left with the impression that while James really appreciates the capability and potential of this machine, he doesn't love it.
I get the telemetry aspect - but it removes some of the feeling; the mechanical simplicity of manipulating heated, pressurized water to create a coffee. I work in tech - i live in UI/UX worlds full of data, bugs, APIs and logic all day long. I drive a manual shift car, i like mechanical shift bikes, and i like that me - the user, am the most crucial part of the process of making coffee. I can definitely see that something like this is inevitable, and eventually will lead to entirely different ways of thinking about and making coffee. I just prefer a more analogue world once in awhile.
I can relate. Everything is so tech today. I don't want to make coffee by using a touch screen. I want to pull a lever and have the mechanical feeling, also aesthetically. For this price the machine should come with rotary pump. I also don't want to buy twice as much coffee because I'm going to try out a bunch of profiles. Sometimes the easiest things are the best. I can totally understand why people buy it, but it just doesn't fit me. I also think the design needs some improvements. Sorry for the language, but it looks like a box with 2 buttplugs attached with a tablet on top, that makes a lot of noise.
I waiting for this
Hi James, really enjoy your vids. I’m a home espresso ‘enjoyer’ and always looking to find ways to improve my shot pulling skills. Given the measurements avail from Decent, here’s bottom line question: How does 1:2 shot frm Decent taste vs an ‘analog’ machine, like La Spaziale, or even ECM or Synkronika (ok, these are not too analog)? The last 2 have flow control but nowhere near the measurement to control pressure, flow rate, etc., which for someone like me, would be an beneficial tool to create different profiles and learn the shot effects of changing variables. However, it comes down to taste. All things equal, does it taste the same, worse or better than these other brands?
Why would it taste different? You put the same water trough the same coffee with the same temperature and pressure and flow. There isn’t a secret sauce. On the other hand, the decent allow you to see what happened during your shot and help you to recreate it. It also allows you to record the data of other machines and replicate it. And if your satisfied, then you can detach the tablet and use it as a normal machine if that’s your thing. But you know, that you always have the ability to connect the tablet and start experimenting
I like playing with variables and am ready to upgrade. However, I think this machine will dominate my life which I don't want. Maybe a Profitec DB will be better suited for me. but I will always be eyeing this machine and wondering what if.
this is only like $1000 cheaper than the Linea Mini. Which one is better for a bog standard espresso? Coming from a La Pavoni, I just want something easy.
Would love to see how this compares to Eversys Cameo c’2
!!!
Or your thoughts on this machine.
It would be nice if they would implement a "simplicity mode" 😁
James, I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere, but what kind of water do you put in your machines these days?
Wondering if James still doesn't have an espresso machine for home
Hi , is this machine able to do a pre-infusion as long as 25-30 seconds ,slow ramp from low to high P (8-9bar), keep it there for as long as the coffee allows you to, then go down finishing the extraction at 5-6 bar ? I am very interested to know .Thanks in advance !
Yes, you can do that
@@MVargabass Thank you !!
an integrated display with a few very nice buttons that have a nice klicky feeling - especially the start button - would have been better. AND a bluetooth interface for your own tablet that can show all the fancy stuff - only if you like
Hi James, I am from India and a big fan of your work. Keeps me glued and I learn a lot.
Is it possible for you do a review of DeLonghi Dedica 685? It is the most affordable mid range espresso machine India and it would be really awesome to know if it is a bang for the buck!
Thanks for the awesome videos you make and the honest opinions you give. Cheers!
th-cam.com/video/7HIGdYy5of4/w-d-xo.html
I'd also love to see such a review! and even the similar Kitchen-aide one
re: "who this is for" - This is a lab machine, plain and simple. I see it fitting best into professional academic and R&D settings. A professional student could learn a lot from this by analyzing the shots they pull. An R&D specialist could use this to eliminate a lot of variables and build a more complete picture of what they're researching, giving them valuable, unambiguous data to forward off to academics and help in engineering.
Hey something I just noticed: am I seeing right that you have to connect the screen to the machine with a CORD?! Like they adapted the Android OS for some cheap tablet and just stuck it on there? It’s not actually embedded into the machine and you need to charge it? That’s some serious design hell, compared to the rest of this thing, which otherwise looks nice.
It’s because tablets degrade or brake over time unless the machine which last far longer. You can then change it really easily. You can also connect it via Bluetooth, but then you need to charge the tablet anyway. You can also use different size tablets or iPad or a Notebook... this way the repairability is no concerns. If you break it, then you could buy one really fast. If it was integrated, then you need to send the machine to service center.
More about this machine please
Overall, excellent review and only a couple minor quibbles. Before my Decent I had a Quickmill Anita (E61) and it was much louder than the DE1 so I don't understand the noisy comment by you or so many other people even on the Decent forum. Albeit, it is a different bunch of sounds.
Second, the complicated bit and being all-consuming. I know someone who has a Decent that basically uses the same beans, same profile, has done two posts on the Decent forum and has kept his involvement minimal and experimentation minimal/to-none. While I would say that an inquisitive and coffee curious mind might get sucked in, they probably would do that with any machine.
I think some of the truly innovative and unique hardware characteristics should have been highlighted. For instance, no machine I know of is mixing and delivering water at such exacting temperatures using a temp probe almost right in the portafilter. That is an amazing feature - maybe the most amazing thing about the machine in my mind. And, the fact we know what the temp is and can vary it even throughout the shot at different stages is sort of mind blowing from an engineering and control perspective.
Thanks and Cheers!
hmmm.. I'd have loved one to play with on a slow shift!
Would love an update if you’re still using with current firmware.
Would love to see a comparison with a gaggiuino. Would you mod your 250€ espresso setup based on a old gaggia classic ?
You've already reviewed the Apple of espresso makers... The Oracle touch. Ironically, your complaint there was you didn't have enough control. But, that would be the difference. If Apple made an espresso maker, there would be things they'd hide from you, that they would never let you have control over. It's actually kind of a prerequisite of user experience. There's almost always an exchange of control for ease of use.
The wordiness of the British is truly spectacular. Great review though, appreciate the production quality and work that went into it.
It's defo going to end up with people going down loads of rabbit holes not dissimilar to roast curves. I just hope the focus will always be on what tastes good rather than flow profile for profile sake...
James, how about an update to this, because quite a few things you mentioned here are dated or not true anymore.
James, you should try the machine agin… since a lot of reviews are popping up, I would be curious about yours 🧐
Is there something like a "barista" mode? I'd think having a cut down interface for a commercial environment would be great. Basically, profile each coffee you'll use and have limited controls.
I thought you got it right with that it's a hobbyist machine, for the price point I'd like to see the screen be more integrated with the body and not have any visible wires.
It's designed to be portable, and not having the tablet integrated means if it goes down, there's no disassembly for the fix.
and a rotary pump
Would you ever review the la marzocco gs3?
Great review James, although I have to say it was weird watching a review that doesn't show much of the product. Don't get me wrong, I love your insights but I think they could have been better paired with some B roll
Yes! Drove me crazy.
Exactly!
I like your vidéo first for thé sujet ''le café ''
Segondly i'm french and i don't know of you know (maybe if one day you tak a holiday in France.) But the french people don't speak english .... And when some vidéo liké this ave good speaker like you do it is very good for me toi understand .
So thanks you
Older video but the comment about the charge cord for the tablet has me think that a magnetic adapter plug could be a handy upgrade. There are magnetic adapters for lightning/type c/micro usb that convert a plug port to something more like the magsafe charge ports on mac laptops.
Is the Decent forum open to all or only for owners, if open what is the URL?
Only owners
Anyone know who makes the bookcase in the background?
time for a revisit?
You don't have a machine at home? Would love to hear more on this.
It's basically his work so I get it. If you watch his Sage Precision brewer video he talks about that being how he makes coffee in the morning, and used a Moccamaster until he got that one.
You said you're pretty careful about the water you put into your coffee machines - what water do you use and why? Thanks.
I think if you go back to the video he says he uses water from the square mile roastery ,which is a mix of filtered hard water (I think )
go to whole latte love site....they go into great derail about water, water filters, the whole gamut.th-cam.com/video/QceGglAWwcY/w-d-xo.html
The price of this machine is ridiculous now, I remember when James first announced he bought it, he paid $2,200 USD for it, I'm looking to buy it in Canada now and the cost with taxes is $5,000 CAD. Dream is over for sure :)
your comment just crushed me. know anything similar that’s obtainable in canada?
Would this espresso machine do good in a commercial environment?
Easy to identify the Kahlua bottle on the right, the bottle on the left is Mr. Black Cold Brew Coffee Liqueur.
I made the mistake of watching only the first part of this video where the founder of Decent talked about a $999 machine. You need to go all the way to learn that they now only make machines that start at $3,499. I found this out after exchanging emails with Decent. So don’t get too excited about a $999 espresso maker.
single or dual boiler?
What an unbelievable plot twist: He doesn't have an espresso machine at home... I would have expected an entire room dedicated to espresso machines, grinders, special coffee aging boxes, etc. I'm totally confused now.
He has it at work, where he’s all day. So no point having it at Home
Is it bad to want one purely because of how it looks, so clean, yes even with the weird tablet on top
Hey James. Is there a reason why don't want an espresso machine at home?
Yes,if,you are poor and just pushing luxury lifestyle. I think that's counted as reason.
He said he doesn’t really drink milk, works with pro equipment all day, so probably a time thing, quick access
Batch coffee at home
That's such an interesting machine... I thought the pump was actually really quiet on that thing, but it does sound weird compared to other machines.
Noticed the Kahlua in the background. Ever tried making your own coffee liqueur?
I've been following Decent for a few years now and I really want one. I've worked with commercial machines and I have a Rancilio Silvia at home. I wonder where Decent sits with a Rancilio Silvia and something like a Linea PB.
Jamie Long just happened upon your comment. I switched from a Rancilio Silvia PID to a de1+ about a month ago now. The difference in shot quality and experience is night and day. The Silvia, even with PID, was a very unforgiving, difficult machine looking back. It gives you very little feedback about your shot (though with your experience on commercial machines this may not be as big a deal). I’ve found that the feedback on the decent has allowed me to dial in an acceptable shot and start experimenting repeatable much more quickly, improving both my worst and best shots. If you’re still considering the upgrade and have any questions I can probably answer them here.
Spencer Davis awesome. Thanks for the reply. I’ll be sure to reach out to you if I have further questions.
James, can you review Ferratti Ferro product. People in Malaysia/Indonesia/Singapore/Philiphines keeps recommending this product.
may sound counter to reason, but I'm considering this and the Cremina! Anybody have thoughts? And, what of the vibe pump(s) on the Decent? Don't they typically produce less-good shots?
Get a Decent with the Cremina profile.