The Secrets of Nespresso Pods
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- I know Nespresso is a divisive subject, but I think there's some interesting stuff going on for those of us who like to nerd out about coffee sometimes.
This is the last video of 2023 from me, and I hope you enjoy it and had some fun!
Need more? There's a second channel now! @JamesHoffmannBonus
Links:
Patreon: / jameshoffmann
Limited Edition Merch: geni.us/TensHundredsThousands
Instagram: / jimseven
Twitter: / jimseven
My Books:
How to Make The Best Coffee At Home*: geni.us/howtomakethebestcoffee
The World Atlas of Coffee*: geni.us/atlasofcoffee
The World Atlas of Coffee Audiobook*: bit.ly/worldatlasofcoffeeaudio
The Best of Jimseven: geni.us/bestofjimseven
Things I use and like:
My glasses: bit.ly/boldlondon
My hair product of choice*: geni.us/forthehair
(*Affiliate links which may earn us a commission) - บันเทิง
I don’t even drink coffee, and I am happily educating myself through this amazing video at 2:51 AM. As one does. 😂
I applaud your curiosity!
holy shit i sawt his comment at 2:51
As I do at 3 AM :D
I saw at 2:15AM
So coffee is even able to keep you up remotely! 😂
audio problem ?
Same for me. Advertisement audio is present, but video is missing. So that audio ends in 18:33, but the video is stuck until 19:41.
I also lost audio at the same point. I’m glad I came to the comments and saw this!
Same here. Is a shame as I was enjoying this.
It cut out a bit at the end, of James saying:
"Don't take this as a kind of endorsement of Nespresso. I am fascinated and interested by the technologies that they have. I don't really understand how they're grinding coffee the way that they are, but it's super interesting. But when it comes to drinking coffee, I want people to support local roasters, buy incredible coffees, and be able to turn them easily an inexpensively into delicious coffee drinks. I think espresso is a great way to enjoy coffee, but it's also a little bit of a hobby, that has, you know, a bit of a hurdle to get into it. You gotta spend the money on the equipment and have the time. There are other ways to make coffee that are incredibly inexpensive, hugely fun, and yield you very delicious drinks, and that's kind of what this channel is all about. But now I wanna hear from you, down in the comments below. I wanna hear from you if you are using reusable systems and you had any joys in ways that I haven't, are there any tips and tricks that you wanna share with me and the rest of the audience? And then if you watched this just to learn more about the technology inside there, well, was that interesting? Is there some other patent that we should've talked about? Is there other tech that we've missed that we should look at in the future? I'd love to hear from you down in those comments below. But for now, I will thank you so much for watching, [and I hope you have a great day.]"
Most of that was still in the closed captions, but they cut out too.
One interesting thing to note is that Nespresso seals their capsules under nitrogen flush, meaning they are absent of oxygen. That does a lot for the freshness of the coffee for up to a year vs. independent pods which I find start to taste stale around 6 months after production.
Wow this explains so much, as I’ve also noticed this.
Additionally, it’s usually the ones in bio(plastics) that have the shortest time until stale in my experience.
Would maybe explain why grinding and filling ones own capsules would outperform the independent capsules so much
To be honest, at home the capsules never reach that sort of life span, so I did not notice before.
Yeah but Nestle as a company can literally rot and die, so gotta find an alternative.
Yes that’s a thing
I came across this video as an industrial product designer (not necessarily a coffee lover), never imagined brewing coffee from capsules has so much amazing tech to it. Thank you for the video, it was very enjoyable and educational at the same time.
I am not a coffer lover and I still watched it. 🙂
More James this week?? Truly a Christmas miracle!
I was just thinking the same! Xmas has come early! 🤠
But no Hames Joffman. Suspicious
@@johnb3513lol
I was about to say haha. 3 videos in a row
The true spirit of Hoff-mas
James, this is just a guess, but I think the jagged edges on the Nespresso receptacle may be flutes designed to allow a formerly pressurized vessel to be more easily extracted without tearing its rim off. When vessels get pressured, they're going to expand in volume a bit. That expansion can cause stickiness when trying to remove them from their chambers. By making the chamber fluted, you reduce the available surface area for that vessel to press into once it depressurizes (and thus reduces a bit in volume again), it becomes easier to extract. If you don't have that fluting, expanded vessels can stick in the chamber and then have a risk of their rims being torn off instead of properly extracted.
Or it could be an anti-competitive thing, or perhaps both together at the same time.
That makes sense. Also, with smooth sides and water you could form a kind of vacuum seal.
Yeah, this is probably accurate - the fluted sides are going to make the pod go in and out more smoothly than a solid, parallel side, and likely also allows for slightly increased tolerances with capsule manufacture.
Also, the same detail is present on the first Nespresso machines, back when they believed they had a patent on the capsule design, so I doubt it’s anticompetitive in origin.
I tried using a reusable metal pod. I think it may have damaged my machine because now it leaks even when using nestle pods.
That type of technology is actually used in firearms. It's called a fluted chamber
You’re clever
It may be a good test to put Nespresso ground coffee (from a branded pod) into your foil sealed reusable pod. Then you can see how much of the magic is in the Nespresso grind technology.
Additionally, you could put your best matched grind profile coffee into the emptied Nespresso pod, and reseal it with a foil sticker. Then you could see how much of the magic is in the Nespresso branded pod with filter paper.
It would also be interesting to see the Nespresso grind under a microscope, compared to your best matched grind profile.
There is definitely something clever going on inside a Nespresso pod. I wouldn't discount other post-processing of the ground coffee.
I second this comment! I once fell onto a pack of Nespresso pods, they busted but instead of wasting it I put it in a cheap drip coffee maker which is a big no no. It worked. It tasted good. So there’s some magic happening in the grind. Has to be.
You’re smart.
@@lordgraga He has his own tailor in Saville Row.....
I would love to see a test that measures how much micro plastics come from the pod knowing that the aluminum is sealed by a plastic layer as well as the paper included contains plastic. I also wonder if any aluminum is leaking from the ruptured parts in the pod and in the seal.
Another source of aluminum is from the water heater in some model where it's made from a block of aluminum instead of s.steal.
The differences in grind size&shape are likely also a factor of the scale of the grinding equipment - when you go up to the bulk scales of industrial milling equipment, you often get fundamentally different particle breakdown processes than at smaller personal/lab scales. Its something we see with coatings and ceramics all the time, so it was neat to see you finding the effect of size and shape distribution on brew quality
And I bet (considering the price they’re getting per pound of coffee) that they can afford to sift out the ground coffee, selecting only the most consistent particle size, and putting that in the Nespresso capsules. Not saying they’re doing this for sure, but it does seem like one way they could be getting such a clean, consistent grind (and probably a good idea, if your goal is to get as much as possible out of such a small weight of coffee). Hey, they could even sell the uneven sifted out particles to other coffee brands to use in their filter ground coffee (or just use them for their instant coffee products 😆).
@@voldemortified That in fact does not really cost more since they can just sell the other parts of the coffee on your normal supermarket.
15:27 I never would have thought that I'd live to see James Hoffman using a scoop without a coffee scale to brew coffee. It truly is a Christmas miracle.
In this case volume is what matter - the pod needs to be filled independent of the weight.
@@RepentandbelieveinJesusChrist-nobody asked
@@aidanspencer2721 Nobody ever does.
Repent from your sins of scooping the coffee 😂 Pray to the scale for forgiveness
Watch his Moka pot videos haha
At the end of 2014 I came to the UK from Poland. My first job (2 years) in the UK was at a coffee capsule production at Dualit. I operated a machine producing capsules compatible with Nespresso machines for Dualit brand and M&S. That's where I started drinking coffee and developed a taste for coffee. I just recently got more into coffee partially through Your channel. It's interesting to watch this film knowing the production of coffee capsules from the inside and having more knowledge about coffee. Take care James
What do you think of the refillable capsules?
Yes also keen to hear some more
@@ifv2089 I never tried refillable capsules, sorry. 👍
The way James presents information and so passionately talks about coffee is just irresistible to me. I don't really drink coffee in fact I've never had a drop of coffee in my whole life and I do not intend to become a coffee drinker it's just I love the way he talks about these things.
He’s incredibly articulate. Doesn’t use any unnecessary filler words. A real skill at presenting that not many people have.
I wish the audio didn't cut out at 18:33, but other than that it was an excellent piece.
The other side of the spectrum was my grandfather, whom I never met, and the story my father, used to tell with nostalgia in his heart from the days growing up in the 1920s. They lived in Juiz de Fora, Minas Gerais state, very close to one of Brazil's major coffee plantation regions in the 19th century, quite near the division with Rio state. My grandfather, who was a doctor and a carpenter, woke up earlier than anyone in the house, and he made coffee like this: First of all, he purchased very good quality beans from local small producers, and roasted them in the morning every day, with a cast iron cylindrical tool, by pulling previous night embers from the wood fired oven, fanning them with a bellows blower, roasting the beans just as he liked them, and proceeding to grind the piping hot beans with a French grinder I still have to this day. As soon as the grinding was right he poured them still hot in a pot of simmering water with a tiny, almost homeopathic dose of sugar cane water (sugar cane water has sugar and salt as well), and he had an interesting technique for brewing, by letting it just begin to boil, and removing the pot from the heat while stirring, doing this 2 or 3 times, and then straining with a cloth strainer (preheated and prewashed with coconut soap). My father described the smell of coffee spreading throughout the entire house, which made everyone rise from bed like zombies, and migrate to the kitchen where he had warm bread with butter, and this amazing coffee, most people had with a bit of milk, and my dad described as the most delicious brewed coffee he ever tasted in his life.
This is one of my most favourite comments I've ever read. Thank you for sharing.
I was transported to your family home. I could smell the coffee, and taste the bread and butter. What a wonderful picture you painted! Simple. Earthy. Warm. My idea of a fulfilling existence.
Meu amigo, queria ter tido um avô assim! Delicia de história!
I would love to experience that. ❤
These stories of family lore are so awesome to read - thanks for sharing.
I was visiting French family a few years ago, and my uncle, who had very limited English, was struggling to explain how he'd made the after lunch coffee, Suddenly his face cleared and he came up with 'Le café George Clooney'. Instant comprehension. It wasn't bad, either.
😂
Huge success for Nespresso in France. Is that the same in the UK/US?
@@Neodynium.the_permanent_magnet I'm in Australia, and yes they are very popular here too.
The US didn’t see anything like this until after about 2008 😂😂😂
@@Neodynium.the_permanent_magnetthey’re everywhere in the UK
As a coffee drinking engineer I found this genuinely fascinating. Many thanks chap.
Same... Especially regarding design for protecting competitive advantage
I order to be protected by a patent, an invention must not be "obvious for a man of the trade".
I wonder how this gasket came to be patentable. Using a gasket to guarantee a fluid doesn't leak is pretty much obvious. That's why everyone does in every industry from car engines to brewing.
@@Raminagrobisfr perhaps it is the placement of the gasket that is patented. It is less than obvious why one would want to put a gasket on every pod rather than on the machine. Note that the off-brand machine also had a gasket, just in a different location.
Not to mention they have also patented the "barcode" capsule reader for coffee size in the latest Vertuo. Its a truly fascinating thing to see.
After having thought about this... The gasket is soft and ground can and will be compacted into it over time. If the gasket is permanently attached to the machine, relatively quickly it will build up compressed grounds and lead to flow-bypass as the seal becomes more and more compromised. A new gasket every dose costs more, but works much better over the life of the machine.
Probably the best video I have seen on this topic. We use a combination of Nespresso and generic capsules, and now I know why the Nespresso coffees often yield a better coffee, why generics pod leak so much, and why my very fancy Nespresso machine really does not work well with compatible pods (and breaks the machine!) Thanks for this.
The foil is a pressure control device. Foil is used in all sorts of things that require exact pressures. From safety valves on train tank cars to measuring the pressure of explosions.
It's pretty neat that something so cheap and easy to use is so effective like that.
Too bad patents are BS and now everyone has to use something else...
@@The_Noticer. what if: hole punch style shear cutter pre-sized to a metal reusable pod, kitchen grade aluminium foil, gasket-equipped clamped lid/ring that holds it taut in place. Nestle surely can't sue for people being given a tool to make their own, if the first reusable pod with sticky foil is any judge.
While we're at it, smaller hole punch for filter paper so we can put a bit at the bottom of the reusable pod, again without stepping on nestle's patent.
@@OutbackCatgirl There is no such thing as "kitchen grade" on a global market (or there are about 7), but it could be close enough for this use. You could even be nerdy about the brand of foil.
Oh my god, thank you. I've been wondering why cheaper pods are rubbish for ages, even when produced by reputable roasters.
Are you saying that genuine Nespresso cups don’t produce rubbish coffee?
@@Conservator.I feel like you probably forget that 99% of people won't notice stuff that James does, so most people probably just enjoy it without thinking about it.
@@androiduberalles
You’re probably right (no, you ARE right;) but I can’t enjoy Nespresso’s anymore since I can brew real espresso’s. There’s no comparison imo.
They sell reusable gaskets by the tens. They make a better seal even with original pods
@@Conservator. Nespresso offers quite drinkable coffee. Better than what most restaurants offer, any pad machines, most people with their terrible filter coffee at home, all instant coffee etc..
I've tried a lot of independent cofffee capsules and Starbucks were the only ones that could stay competitive. But those are officially licensed.
I’m absolutely addicted to James Hoffmann videos. But every time I watch one I find myself wondering if I a) even know how to best enjoy a cup of coffee, and b) if I’ve ever had an actual great cup of coffee. So I watch and plod on…
I just love learning on this coffee/espresso journey you take us all on every video you post. Thank you, James!
Okay, this is just ridiculously sharp, informative, interesting, and entertaining. Anyone who has ever used a Nespresso in their hotel and wondered what it was compared to the other coffee in their life will savor this brew. James Hoffman is a good man who’s found his calling. This is a great stocking stuffer for the holidays. Thank you James!!!
You can tell it's smart because of his haircut
I remember your last video on how Nespresso invented a way to make consistent "fake" crema with their capsules. It might not be high quality coffee but I appreciate the science and research they're pumping into their products.
Wasn't that the new Virtuo pods? The ones that spin?
Yes, that was a feature of vertuo machines, not the smaller original pods
Well, most modern prepared food items are the products of engineering. We shouldn’t be surprised.
There is no such thing as fake crema it is coffee with air in it -
Shame about the audio drop, but hugely interesting video. I'm a big fan of Nespresso but purely for the convenience and reasonable taste. When I'm away in our camper van I have great coffee, hand ground, v60 and my Fellow kettle (gas) and I enjoy the time it takes to make my coffee. When I'm working, I have so little time between calls that the pod hits the mark on speed and taste. I also drink way too much in a day, so now looking at a good electric grinder so that I can brew fresher coffee less frequently. Great channel...absolutely love it. 🍮🍮🍮🍮🍮
This is a fascinating video for a number of reasons, however I most appreciate that there's no teaser intro, then a theme song and title graphic, then another intro...you just get right into what you're saying. That's great, refreshing, and appreciated!
"We now have a fancy particle size analyzer in the studio..." Of course you do 🤣😂🤣 Great video - thanks!
Given the size that the Nestle brand is, my first thought on the ground size quandary was that they have the means and latitude to grind a lot of coffee and then filter it by grain size to attain that fine grain just for these pods, and then sell the coarser coffee as another non-Nespresso product.
It’s the fines that you want to avoid.
Roller grinders are probably the cheapest option for the extremely large quantities that Neslé has to process.
@@Conservator.And they can use the fines for instant coffee or coffee flavorings
Screen the fines off for use in other products like Nescafé?
run the output over different size seives to get the different sized grains
I think that filtering out fines would be too expensive. The roller grinds probably just produce the distribution like that.
For instant, cheaper coffee is used. Mainly Rubusta not much Arabica.
James, I have to thank you. After watching your video, I used a rubber band around a non-nespresso coffee pod and it made a huge difference... the coffee is so much better. As it turns out, the seal for pre-infusion was very important in this case.
I am a nespresso coffee drinker (because it's quick and easy) and was always excited by the potential of independent/ non-nespresso pods but was left unhappy with the outcomes.
Thank you for this very informative video. As a Nespresso coffee machine owner and lover, for several years now, I appreciate this type of info.
Will you please cover Turkish style coffee ....its the only style of brewing you have left out..and one of the worlds oldest brew styles and most popular ways of drinking coffee.
And Vietnamese coffee and their style. I am surprised how good that tastes.
Turkish coffee made with a hot sand bed! 👍
Funny forget cowboy coffee! He promised to do a video on that as well
turkish coffee is great, i'd love to see that covered or getting on someone with more expertise in turkish coffee. one of my favourite coffee houses is a turkish place. also, a lot of coffee's from the middle east too are not represented, despite yemen being the origin of coffee drinking. people think italian first, when of course italian coffee is good, but the first coffee houses began in turkey/ottoman empire (and yemen were the 1st ones to start making it a drink, in the early 1400s).
Exactly... its not possible to have a coffee channel without covering Turkish style coffee or its roots in Yemen which I believe stared with brewing the coffee leaves.@@oight
Would be interesting to see a comparison of capsule coffee vs what an average consumer can produce with a budget setup, maybe even preground coffee and pressurized portafilter.
would also really like to see this
A regular drip cofee machine gives you 300 cups of caffeine for 20 dollars, this fancy consumerist POCs give you only arround 24 shots (Mexico prices), thinking as the caffeine junky I'll stick to my cofee dripper
@@partciudgam8478 I was implying what kind of espresso an average consumer could produce. If all you want is caffeine then yes, drip works just fine!
igual yo!me parece una pérdida de dinero.prefiero mi MOKA italiana -de 10 euros en la tienda de cositas caseras en Italia-o mi cafetera normal-o sea con filtro y cae dripping en la base de cafetera de cristal.@@partciudgam8478
@@ironsightsmike Drip coffee makers simply cannot be matched in terms of cheap, low-effort, high-volume caffeine production. A big french press comes pretty close with the benefit of actually tasting good, however. For espresso, IMO you could beat the Nespresso by brewing quality beans with an Aeropress. The Nespresso is just easier if you want good coffee without doing any work.
I'm using Lidl's own branded capsules (Bellarom) and they are completely covered in a clear rubber coating, which also forms the gasket at the base that you mentioned . They're actually pretty good.
Do they have the paper thingy inside?
After trying a LOT of brands out there ( including nescafe and the Starbucks ones🤢) i would say they are the best option since they gives me the best and closest taste to a professional coffee machine 👍🏼
I opened one especially to answer your question and for the sake of science😅
and the answer is: unfortunately the capsule doesn’t have a paper in the bottom of the capsule.. Yet it tastes the best as I have mentioned before.👍🏼
@@mixman2007mthank you for pointing this out. I’ve been trying many pods and they’re terrible. If a coffee person is advising one I appreciate it. I’ll look for it.
The Starbucks capsules are genuine Nespresso capsules,@@mixman2007m
That was actually quite interesting, especially the fact that independent pods manage to actually be good despite tech discrepancy. Maybe it'd have been interesting to check independent machine vs original machine for viewers with the base machine at home
Thats because tech in the hands of greedy businessmen will always give you a poorer product because they know morons will buy their garnage
Great video! I’m wondering what would happen if you take coffee out of the nespresso pods and try to brew it in regular espresso machines ( maybe in the decent to look at profiles). My guess is that a dose of 18g would choke, but who knows? Maybe single baskets would work well. All I know is that will be fun and hopefully we’ll learn from that experiment! Thanks
Great idea!
That would make great content James… please include the big name brands like Costa, Starbucks, and Illy. Most supermarkets stock these.
I did that when I had capsules left after switching to a „real“ espresso machine. Doesn’t work. Flows way too fast, little pressure, tastes very watery. My feeling was, all the oils of freshly ground coffee are missing and therefore less resistance.
To make the most expensive coffee in the world!
James has a video doing just that!
Yes I had one, put it back in the box and gone back to my favourite method, pour over, you just can't beat it.
Dude needs a few more for 2M. No BS fully fact based videos with real calibrated tools. Coffee can truly be a hobby. well done mate.
dang, this would have been a perfect opportunity for the technology connections "magic of buying two of them" joke.
I was looking for this comment. Not sure if James is aware of Tech Connections enough to make that joke
@@LeonardChurch33 if James isn't someone on his team likely is. Between the editing team, production team, sound team (or just individuals) there's likely someone behind the scenes who would know it.
Oh man I just made the same comment. Love me some Technology Connections
Same, I was so ready for that reference 😂.
James, Very interesting deconstructing the Nespresso capsules and machine. Also noteworthy that you found the one non-Nespresso capsule tasting much better than the Nespresso one. You previously having done a taste test of a number of the original line Nespresso capsules, I would be very interested in your doing a similar taste comparison of a variety of the non-Nespresso capsules (e.g., Illy, Lavazza, Peet's, Starbucks, l'Or, Rosso, and so forth). This would be very helpful to those of us who have Nespresso or Nespresso-style machines. Thanks, as always, for a very interesting, informative, and enjoyable video.
I have a magimix, and I tried to use L'Or esspresso pods, however they're about 1mm shorter, and so were not getting a tight seal, and leaking a lot and the front not being pierced, and I found out from this video about the rubber gasket, and the ribbed lip, and so I put one L'Or capsule inside two used capsules to build the size up so that the pressure was enough to make the front pierce under pressure, and it kind of works ok now. I certainly see why Nesspresso pods work better when others are not so great. Once I've used the rest of the 20 pack I'll probably go for the Nesspresso pods or maybe get some silicone rings that fit.
I fully support this video idea!
Great Idea, as some kind of accidentially stuck with Nespresso, coffe drinker (Before the pandemic we did not drink a lot of coffee at home and everything but the capsules turned stale on us sooner or later, so we bought a Capsule machine in 2019, a slightly more fancy one, but not sure if that makes a huge difference. Come the pandemic and working from home, we blasted through as much capsules at home as we had anticipated for a few years, had we known we would likely have choosen a different option.) But back to the topic, we tried a number of original Capsules and liked some more than others, but found at some point, that we liked most of the other brands and surprisingly even non brands more for every day drinking than the original. (well except for the Mermaid stuff, that to us was worse)
Have the L’Or, and have tried most of their different types, and can say the best description of taste is burnt tire. Not one of the larger pods was drinkable, the espresso pods potentially could be marginally acceptable if you were desperate for a coffee, but not if you had any alternative. L’Or was completely a waste of money…IMHO
Is there really any point in comparing mass produced, burnt-to-a-crisp coffee from brands such as Illy and Lavazza?
I'm specialty roaster and I've been experimenting with nespresso system using the refillable capsules with the lids. It has been a challenge to achieve "the roast profile" for my beans but thanks to you I know now why and even how other specialty coffee capsules outcomes look.
Much respect to you for trying to solve the issue. I would love to be able to get local roasters coffee to taste the same in the Nespresso machine. What’s your company? I’d love to support it. I really respect specialty roasters.
@@dia9491 This is 🙃
James, you are the gold standard when it comes to explainers on TH-cam - enthusiastic, eloquent, expertise!
Ah yes, truly a novel, and non-obvious and unique, and definitely patentatble technique of *checks notes* using a compliant material to seal between two surfaces to stop water leaks.
It really is amazing what you can get patents for and what ground you can protect with use of clever wording.
Not to defend trivial patents in general but I'd assume the important part here is that they laminate the seal onto the pod where everyone else would probably put it in the machine. What I am wondering: Is there an inherent advantage of doing it this way (longevity, more reliability) or did they just look for ways to make it more difficult for competitors, maybe even expecting to lose the patent fight on the capsules themselves?
@@cczeroX on the pods I guess the seal is constantly renewed, if it's in the machine it may perish and require replacement or even a new machine. So if it's a razor blade model, and the machines are sold at a loss or lower margin, with high margin on the pods, then you'd want the machines to last as long as possible.
The small paper piece also being patentable is absolutely ridiculous.
@@cczeroXI wonder if it came later and customers wouldn't need to retrofit expensive early generation machines. And sure, I bet the patent-ability of this approach played a part too in preserving their market.
Ahhh, particle size analyzer is gonna give us some really nice, nerdy, weird coffee science content as I can see
I’ve use dip coffee funnel over a cup for years . Your explanation on the mechanics of the machine makes coffee a whole new experience to buy the machine thank you .
I've been using many dolce gusto machines through my life. Currently settled with Camry CR4414 that is great to use and try different companys ideas through adapters provided with the coffee machine. Definetely can say that I've gone through all adapters and coffee options and for now I'm sticking to my own coffee that I grind and use with it as it's cheaper and tastes better than any premade capsules.
Nearly 50 years ago I started with an electric percolator ( I just liked coffee that was better than instant) and over the years I tried a variety of brewing methods. The greatest change for me was the invention and availability of the 'AeroPress'. The major problem, living in the north of England was that only supermarket bagged coffee.
I began having difficulty with brewing coffee due to severe arthritis I went down the road of bean to cup machine, which gives me not ideal but satisfactory results.
With the rise of independent coffee roaster finding a preference has been made much easier.
I would like to give a shout out to 'white rose coffee roasters' a local company that provide an excellent product and service.
It would be really interesting to see if the company from your $500k grinder video could match the grind profile of a Nespresso pod with specialty coffee and what those results may be like.
its so close so nah
Probably mostly, they had the ability to seperate by particle size and mix it back together at the desired distribution. Maybe they'd have to chuck some of the fines though but you can always make Turkish coffee with that. The fancy Nestle machine powered by the souls of starved formula babies probably makes no fines below the desired particle size, because if they had to throw away say 5% of the coffee it would be a huge waste of money and I don't expect that from the company who sells "specialty" for 500€ per kg. I'm sure of the machine James showed us there's even more expensive ones, that cost several or many millions and Nestle probably has the biggest one and had the next vest competitors euthanized and sold as Bratwurst at Zürich Main Station.
@@user-lv7ph7hs7l idk dude i think you may have gone a little easy on nestle here
Which video is this again?
Yeah, I wonder if the strategy is just that since they are producing identical batches on such a massive scale, then instead of grinding one dose of beans at a time and getting what comes of that, they instead grind enough for hundreds of pods at once, and then filter it out into a desirable blend of sizes, and discard the rest (or apply to other products like instant coffee or coffeee flavored foods),
Very helpful. Thank you. FYI audio is missing from 18:32
I love this channel! James is so pleasant and well informed. I learn something new from him in each video.
I’d be interested to know the difference between a pod designed for espresso and one designed for lungo. And how it impacts the consequences of using an espresso pod with the lungo button on the machine. Or vice versa
I would like to see the comparison between espresso and lungo and the process behind it since the pod is the same size.
They just add more coffee grounds in the longu pods.
Lungo just means more water for the same quantity of coffee
@@snaporatz but how does it know?
I don't think they do,@@adahmi... Nespresso original line capsules may all contain the same amount of coffee.
Missed opportunity “Magic of buying two” 2:35
Conveinence is a HUGE factor considering most coffee drinkers literally start their day with a cup of coffee. Now imagine you just woke up after only 3-4 hours of sleep, you're dead tired and the last thing you want to do is be fiddling with filters, coffee grounds, etc etc etc. It's easier to plop one of those in, press a button and then doze off for a minute or two until your coffee is made.
It would be interesting to see break down of how compostable pods work. I can see lots of smaller roasters now making those. The teste is definitely better than original ones, but not sure how would they "age". They work very well in machine unlike earler ones that used to get stuck (according to people who used them).
The reason I follow James , is because I wanted to get out off the high cost, waste generator, fashion like brand that is Nespresso.
I studied and now I make better coffee and cheaper without waste capsules!
My wife though that I was crazy at the time, but now she also uses the distribution tool 😅
Hell yea! Good for you folks. Honestly it's really just an inkjet printer, but for coffee.
Whats wrong with that?@@veccio
This is a remarkable analysis, and very useful. One takeaway is that one can use the gaskets that come with the fillable pods to provide a seal on the cheaper pods that lack them. As a result, the modified pods seal well, and you get more of the coffee. I should also point out that the fillable pods are smaller than the regular ones because they have to avoid being pierced by the pins that normally penetrate the standard ones. This means that the pods hold less coffee. I find that I have to use two pods in succession to get a strong enough drink.
Very insightful! I now understand how the machine and capsule work together for a great coffee experience. Thank you!
You just reinforced for me that I can spend a lot less money, and make better coffee by doing a French press or a pour over. Which is what I do. And then sometimes I go to a local coffee shop and get them to make me a delicious espresso based drink.
But you'll never experience wheighing out coffee and espresso and distribution effects and flow control and so on...
@@noahmn4985never say never
I was in your same boat. Bought a Pixie machine and love it. The convenience to taste ratio is well worth the investment imo.
Tasty.
Except that a French press, or a pour over or an Aeropress or even a mokapot doesn’t make espresso that a Nespresso machine can and none of them taste as good. I feel I can say that as a 3 coffee day drinker using all of those methods at home (plus my excellent local barrister who does make the best coffee!) for the past 20+ yrs
As someone who has been using reusable pods for at least three years, I have conducted a lot of research and engaged in trial and error to discover several crucial factors that one must consider when utilizing reusable pods. While you have already addressed certain aspects, such as particle size, there is another significant consideration: the aluminum foil used as the lid. It is essential not to use just any random foil for this purpose. The thickness of the foil plays an important role in influencing both the taste and the crema of the coffee.
@@RepentandbelieveinJesusChrist- lol
What I don't understand with reusable pods is the extensive effort you'd have to go through in grinding, filling, sealing, and then collecting, emptying, cleaning and drying before starting over again. If you're going reusable, it doesn't really make any sense compared to simply getting a cheap manual espresso machine.
@@EastenNinjaprices are quite different no? Although at this point might as well just use a moka pot or aeropress
You are absolutely right! I have bought so many other capsules thus far to no avail over the past 5 years and now you explained it.
Really appreciate your exploration of how the pods work and the reusable pods. I'm a relatively new coffee drinker, so not yet appreciating the finer points about grind and brew time. This information will be useful later on as I develop my coffee pallet.
I love your videos so much! While I was already a coffee-lover before, after watching your channel I love coffee even more and gained so much more knowledge about coffee.
Yes, exactly. Me too!
Welcome to the coffee rabbit hole.
I wonder if Nespresso is doing some sort of post-grind sifting or processing to get the grind like it is. Definitely one of those things you can only do at an industrial scale cost-wise
Exactly what I was thinking.
Nespresso processes huge quantities of coffee. They use roller grinders for that. That’s a completely different way of grinding than burr grinders.
I was also thinking that they can use the grounds that are too fine or too course for other products and just get the particles that are exactly right.
@@bikergirl2000
The particle size is a factor but it’s not nearly as important as the amount of coffee used (Nespresso uses 1/3 of a typical espresso recipe), the quality (commodity vs hand picked specialty coffee) and the way it is brewed (hardly more than 1 bar vs 9 bars of pressure).
That's what I was thinking. They probably sift them and then use the smaller and bigger coffee ground to brew coffee before boiling it down to make instant coffee.
Fascinating. I have a budget Aldi coffee pod machine at home, and I must admit I absolutely love it. I know the pods are very wasteful, but the quality of cup you get for the amount of time & effort put in is so hard to beat. I use it more than once a day on average.
Thank you for the deep dive!
18:03 I've been using reusable pods for while now and I just recently started putting filter paper at the bottom to see if it would help, and it does. I don't quite have to coffee vocabulary to describe why it's better but I _can_ tell that it is indeed better. It's maybe a bit more creamy and less watery and as it's brewing it certainly looks less watery which makes me think that the paper does help reduce channeling to aid extraction. Anyway, I'm no expert on the matter but if any of you have reusable pods I'd say it's worth a try.
My mom has a nespresso machine, and she's always sworn by capsules from nespresso. Makes sense why now.
I love the knowledge you bring when assessing intentional design choices. I appreciate your experience and character with which you convey your thoughts.
This was a wonderful video! I love this level of detail, and I’m a lifelong Nespresso user/fan too!
Entertaining and informative all at once... again. Thanks James!
My coffee knowledge is so much richer thanks to his channel.
Never really cared for high quality coffee because i devour whatever is cheapest but once i found out how horrible nestle is and the crimes against humanity they've committed to push the profit margins further i decided to start looking into better coffee. I had no idea how much corners nestle cuts when it comes to their coffee products! i'd love if you did a video talking about the $3 extra cost of cheap coffee for a far superior product
James has talked a bit about this in his video on how to buy coffee, and one really useful shortcut he gave works even if you're buying ground coffee from the supermarket - look for the most traceable, specific single origin coffee on sale.
It's most likely to be ethical because it's coming from a specific region or even farm, so the roaster is tracking that rather than getting it from a faceless entity. Coffee is often grown in rural communities of developing countries, for roasting and sale in wealthy developed countries - it's surprising to no one that some exploitation goes on.
This buying pattern also has the bonus that the coffee is likely higher quality because the market for single origin beans is more likely to be from enthusiasts.
At least right now in the UK, this doesn't necessarily increase the price much in the supermarket. Eg you can buy single origin ground coffee from well-respected roaster Union in my Sainsbury's for the same price as Starbucks ground coffee.
I remember that in Houston, you could buy a wide assortment of unroasted green beans from Specs liquor store chains, so I had modified a popcorn popper incorporating a BBQ thermometer to roast my own coffee. The problem was you had to roast outdoors to prevent soft materials in your home from absorbing too much coffee odours which would then turn rancid and with popcorn popper I had being only 1,000 watts, the winter was too cold for decent roasting (it was taking terribly long to roast) and of course the summers were extremely hot and humid outdoors hence I was only roasting during the spring and fall. Ultimately, if you don't want over roasted beans, you need to self roast, as to whether or not the beans were fairly cultivated, I would suspect the green beans might have a better chance at being from sustainable and fair sources but I wouldn't rely on them for being so.
Thanks for mentioning this. I think a lot of people who want to start tasting slightly better coffee fall into the trap of Nestle's slavery-fueled business.
All we need is a bit of awareness
Having spent a good portion of my career in an ink lab, I’m very familiar with roll milling. They’re are industry standard for manufacturing pigment dispersions for a wide variety of inks and coatings. They are simple enough in design concept and produce very repeatable grinds with narrow particle size distribution curves. Being relatively new on my espresso journey, I wonder why there aren’t affordable home-usable mill grinders for the coffee industry?
I'm intrigued.
It's difficult to scale it down for home use. I believe Cometeer uses large rollers to grind their coffee though.
The main reason why roller grinders haven't made it into the domestic space is because of size! I mean, these things are really BIG!! If you imagine a fridge + size grinder on your kitchen bench, then go ahead and buy one. Why are they so big one? Well, its mostly got to do with diameters. The roller are precision drums made out of hardened, highly polished stainless steel. Normally there are a few different rollers that progressively grind the coffee down in two or more stages, the first generally being slightly corrugated to grip the bean so it doesn't pop back out of the rollers. If you have smaller diameter rollers, the likely hood of the bean or bean particle popping back becomes higher. The same applies to the final grind rollers - too small drum diameters would have a tendency to popcorn bean particles away from the drums. Additionally, a bigger drum diameter provides a more gradual final crushing of the bean than a smaller diameter roller. Some rollers have diameters of 300-500+mm. To support rollers of this size without ANY movement also requires a lot of rigid and heavy supporting structure.
These roller grinders obviously have additional benefits of high volume through-put with very consistent particle size results and fairly low wear and tear for extended use requiring little maintenance and, obviously, no sharpening is ever needed.
So, given the current state of technology, it is unlikely that you will see roller grinder in the domestic space. I researched all this while developing a counter top pod-packing machine a while back. As James mentions in his wonderful vid, the only practical way at home to grind coffee for pods is with good quality flat burrs.
I remener a few years ago alex made chocolade from beans and he got a domestic mill grinder from india to grind the cacao beans.
@@jamesgibbs4151 I appreciate the detail in your response, but why can't that be scaled down? I see no reasons the rollers couldn't just be smaller, for processing a smaller quantity of coffee at once...
This video answered questions that I got over +3 years…..magnificent!
I've got a smeg coffee maker and grinder. Looks simple enough. I buy good coffee and seriously, the coffee is better than 80% of stuff I get at cafes. Much better than Nespresso. Good halfway point.
I'm using those plastic capsules lately. The key for better results for me was measuring the coffee by weight and tamping it with 3D printed jig. You cannot fit 5g of coffee into those unless you're compacting it in some way.
i've used several years Bluecup reusable capsules, in which, you get (or buy) ready made aluminium foils and have a little "capsule maker" to press the foil down on the capsule perfectly, which does have a rubber seal. it works great and i used the same plastic capsules for 100s of usages and they still worked perfectly. that's when i tried filling them with specialty coffee from a local roaster and realized how coarse it had to be ground in order to get coffee out in a reasonable amount of time. i got to a point where i actually bought my own manual burr grinder (Timemore C3) , from this point on, the road to getting a proper lever espresso machine was quite short
Haha thanks for sharing
Really interesting video and it made me think about something I have never thought about before but perhaps you have?
we always think about choosing one grind setting, grinding, and then looking at the distribution - but what if Nespresso grind their coffee, separate out broadly the grind sizes and then picking and choosing from different size bands, recreate a new size distribution that you couldn't achieve with any grinder set to just one size? Might lead to some interesting results
Good video. If you really want to save on waste, you should brew with French press, aero press, Moka pot, metal filter pour over, and other zero waste options. They all make great coffee. The pods are always going to generate avoidable waste.
Aeropress is not zero waste my friend. Unless you brew your aeropress filterless?
You can buy a reusable metal filter, though they have their own downsides.
alu is valuable enough to induce recycling, as it is 10x cheaper to recycle than to make from scratch. tech + AI will incredibly increase the quality of waste management without bothering us too much.
also the pods make a bad taste coffee compared to the moka pot. tastes like something that a cheap espresso machine does. but this is only what I experienced
I would love to see a comparison of super high end nespresso machines like sage vs the cheapest ones, maybe even pitted against some of the alternatives like senseo, sjöstrand and coffeeb 🤔
This is an excellent Christmas present from James, 3 videos in a row!
I'm currently doing my thesis that its related to Nespresso Capsule Coffee Makers and this video was amazing! Thank you very much
Excelente informe! El mejor análisis que encontré sobre las cápsulas de café. 👍
I would be curious to see a comparison between capsules and paper pods, because it seems a lot easy to find coffee from local roaster in that format. Anyway I'm so happy to have so much of your videos in this weekend :)
I find that the pods with paper in place of foil don't have the same boldness or depth of flavor, oftentimes there's some decent amount of grounds at the bottom of a cup, and the paper can sometimes get suck inside the capsule receptacle in the machine.
My favorite part was James casually roasting Nespresso indirectly by mentioning how it doesn't truly matter what temperature their machines end up brewing at, since the coffee they use is so crappy, hahaaha.
Also the part where he keeps talking about their much superior tech and then goes: Still tastes like crap compared to the indie pod.
Dose anyone notice the plasticy taste when hot water brews in plastic pods, or pods with plastic lids? Nespresso at least uses aluminum pods. Or do they coat the insides with a thin film of plastic?
I wonder about the vertuo!
The best coffee machine ever my daughter bought it for me over 5 years love it it's a little pricey but it's worth it better than going to Starbuck ❤ love it I bought a few in Dubai the price is the same as in USA, thank you Nespresso good idea 💡💡
That was absolutely fascinating James! Thanks for looking into this and sharing! I'd love to hear more about any further tech related to this you find in the future!
Thanks for the look INTO the machine. I tried the reusable capsules and found the sealed one to be the best imo as well. Grind did make a difference, but I don't have a "fancy" grind, but finer versus coarser did make a slight difference in the coffee "taste" for me. Fast forward a year or so and I basically just use my Aeropress on a daily basis, grinding what I want and using the ratio of water to coffee to time that you teach and hopefully, I learned to a degree for my use. There is the exception on the days I am in a "rush" for whatever reason that a capsule in my Nespresso will be the "have to" basically for time efficiency. Loved the video James AND would love to find out if you ever discover a way to make a "great" shot/cup of coffee from the Nespresso machine that could somewhat compete with a decent pour-over for us "poor" folk who can't afford the industrial machines😁☕
I’ve been using evergreen reusable capsules to get away from high pod prices before being able to afford a proper machine. They had quite the selection of reusable pods not only for Nespresso but also other pod types, would be interesting to see a comparison between Nespresso and some of the other pod brands/types to see if there’s much of a quality difference 🤔
Pretty cool video, I have the exact same machine at home and it is really useful when you are in a hurry. Few points:
- The capsules could be recycled - Nespresso gives me a bag to carry the waste back to the store
- Price is OK: about 0.5€ per coffee
- Large variety of tastes, true to their description
Love it. Plain and simple, it delivers.
You're love of teaching is infectious
I know you did the nespresso taste test already but can we get a taste test for speciality nespresso pods from a variety of companies?
I second this here! What specialty pod did James use? What brands of specialty pods are good/better than Nespresso?
One of Nestlé's best war crimes!
Probably not even in their top 10 😅
Being a bit technically minded and love to delve into things plus being a home coffee roaster and drinker with both pod and conventional espresso machines I found this bloody interesting. Thanks.
Thanks for this great information! I rarely use a self-filled capsule (we are keurig users, moving to Nespresso… just choosing
which machine), so I feel the one with the foil lid is the one we will choose since we use grounds infrequently.
This is awesome - thank you! I'd love to see you do the same report on the Vertuo system, and specifically those refillable pods
I love when you talk about Nespresso. Having worked for their call center, I'm always interested to know what coffee experts think.
We were taught to ask customers what kind of capsule they were using while troubleshooting their machines. The idea, supposedly, is that hard plastic or reusable metal pods could damage the prongs inside meant to peirce the pod. I would be very interested to see how true this is.
Regarding the "woody" note, they actually taught us in our 2 week training to recognize certain notes in their coffee. Woody was one of the notes they were very adamant about us learning and understanding. It was a very bizarre company to work for. Free coffee all day though! 🤪
I never thought there would be so much information about nespresso pods packed into an actually enjoyable video like this
Nespresso Ethiopia pods are my go to. The lightest roast I've found with good acidity. The darker, Italian style pods produce pure toilet water, all of them. For convenience, speed and price, nespresso machines are fantastic.
Great video by the way. The speed of nespresso extraction always surprised me. Happy I know a bit more about how my machine works now.
Great video love the research you put into it. I’m a big fan of the speed and lack of mess Nespresso machines provide.
Luckily I can still find independent roasters who create compatible pods because I don’t want to support Nestle more than necessary
"That's a weird thing to promise, but I'm sure they'll deliver" made my day, thank you for the great review and the explanation bits.
I've spent a lot of time trying and searching out different decafs and had some good successes...and some good failures! I'm glad you made this video and brought some more awareness to the decaf side of coffee! It does often feel forgotten :(
Did you make this comment on the wrong video?
Yes, yes I did 😂. Thanks to TH-cam app TV player skipping videos whilst I wrote it... *sigh*
@@Chrisa1112 I saw they had a decaf video up, so I was like hmmm, something has gone awry here. Haha. Anyway good day to you stranger, I hope the weekend ahead brings you joy and rest.
Well Tom, I’m sad to see you move on from TH-cam but flying away hanging on to a helicopter at the end of this video was an amazing way to end your channel!
Well played
Hey James seeing as you're so fascinated in the different ways of brewing coffee, I thought I'd share my method. I use a Lab Magnetic Hotplate stirrer.
It's those things you see in the lab which can keep liquids heated at a constant temperature while stirring them. Thought that maybe you might be interested in exploring it since i can't find much others on the internet trying it seriously
So far it's my go to way to get consistently well brewed coffee, although my method does take a long time, quite the opposite of the Nespresso
I use a medium coarse grind size of 14.5 grams of coffee to 250 grams of water
Using the kettle to heat the water up close to 61 Celcius, i put the water in a beaker on top of the hotplate to keep the water heated at 61 Celcius.
I also have the magnetic stir bar inside spinning at about 600-800 rpm
After getting the water heated up to 61 Celcius on the hotplate, I pour the ground coffee on top and use a spoon to stir a bit to make sure it's properly mixed/wet
I leave it for 20 mins and then come back to give it another stir to break the crust at the top and scoop out some of the floaty bits and foam
Then I leave it for another 25 mins. My Hotplate is set to keep the water heated for 40 mins and then turn off, so there's 5 mins in which it's not stirring or heating
Finally, I take the solution and pour it into an Aeropress to filter out. Nothing fancy here, I just like using the Aeropress for filtering since I find it quite efficient and easy to clean
The motivation for this method was to figure out if there's a medium temperature that avoids the "bitter" or "burnt" flavour no matter how long you brew while also brewing the coffee for a long period of time to get good extraction even at this lower than boiling temperature. Ive experimented with a few beans now and found these specs to get a pretty good result, with a little tweaking on grind size or temperature depending on the bean
Haha I generally go for a run and a shower during those 20 min intervals as part of my morning routine, so that i'm not actually "waiting" for the coffee to brew
Let me know if you give it a try!
I’m not a coffee expert - I drink two, maybe three coffees a day. Crawling to my Nespresso every morning I know I can choose from variety of pods and my coffee will be ready in seconds. The same consistent experience, speed and plethora of pod options is something that keeps me hooked on Nespresso. To me this little machine is a proof that I don’t need to buy a coffee shop to enjoy my morning brew.
I understand what you‘re saying. I think the success a ruthless, community-killing company like Nestle has is mainly based on consumers who don‘t care about fair trade etc.
I am using the icafilas reusable pods and they are exactly the same as the "Motti" ones you have. I roast my own coffee and usually dark. I use my 1zpresso hand grinder to grind it to espresso grind size, then using the supplied nylon filling adapter, I can get fairly good brews out of them. My set also comes with a nylon tamper that is slightly larger than the steel one, I can fill up to a maximum of 4.8 grams of ground coffee. I also found that grinding coarser will not allow me to fill in more than 4.5 grams of coffee despite tamping down hard. If I grind the coffee too fine, the water will get stuck, however when dialed in to the right grind size, I can get great tasting brews out of the reusable pods. The resulting brew has a large foamy head especially when freshly roasted coffee is used.