Falchion or Messer? - Definition and Differences

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
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ความคิดเห็น • 903

  • @DonaldFromKingdomHearts
    @DonaldFromKingdomHearts 5 ปีที่แล้ว +468

    Mick: That's not a knoif. THAT'S a knoif!
    Germans: Hold mein beer.

    • @prismaticc_abyss
      @prismaticc_abyss 5 ปีที่แล้ว +90

      halt mein bier

    • @nicolaiveliki1409
      @nicolaiveliki1409 5 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      @@prismaticc_abyss also bei uns in Franggn könnd mer scho soung "Hold mei Bia"

    • @windwalker5765
      @windwalker5765 5 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      He ordered "three beers." Germans order "sree Biers."

    • @larsruhle5385
      @larsruhle5385 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Einmal drei Bier bitte ;)

    • @GaladorLP
      @GaladorLP 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Lars Rühle Oa Maß, bitt‘schön

  • @bretterry8356
    @bretterry8356 5 ปีที่แล้ว +455

    They've got curved swords. Curved. SWORDS!
    Yes, but was it a scimitar, a saber, a flachion, a messer, a cutlass, a machete, or something else?

    • @neilswientek624
      @neilswientek624 5 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      A shamshir.

    • @Lo-tf6qt
      @Lo-tf6qt 5 ปีที่แล้ว +39

      Whiterun guard : *sweats profusely*
      Have I told you about my knee?

    • @FirstDagger
      @FirstDagger 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Only the Lefthanded Elves will ever know.

    • @kovi567
      @kovi567 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @P Ciprian Aaaam, no. A scimitar is different weapon from the saber, mostly because the handle and pommel shape (early sabres had small cross-like guards, small ball-like pommels, and maybe curved handles, while later variants had knuckleguards, and the blade was a bit more straight).
      Scimitars are actually a group of swords, encompassing shamsirs, kilijs, pulwars, tulwars, shotels, kirpans, and nimchas. They differ quite much, but the assimmetric pommel(minus the shotel), and heavily curved blades seems semi-common. Only the kilij seems to have false edges, while sabres of the medieval ages usually had them.
      Cutlasses seems to have either no or very small pommels, knuckle guards that usually merge with the pin of the tang, S like guards, and sometimes baskethilts, seemingly the halved versions. They may also have completely straight variants.
      A katana is a fuckin' katana. You may call it a japanese bastard sword, but it's not a cutlass. It doesn't have a knuckle guard, the crossguard is small and oval shaped, the handle is straight (denying ergonomy btw), and they all seem to have that weird cross-like pattern grip coverage. Their construction is also very different, as cutlasses were used from the reinesance periods, when metalurgy had a boom, while japan was still using medieval and worse smithing techniques even in the modern ages.
      A machete doesn't have a crossguard, the blade is top heavy, and never has a false edge. They also don't have a pommel, as the handle covers the tang, and it's can be riveted as well.
      Messers can, and usually have curved blades, the differences are named in the video, so is the falchion's. Watch it. The two swords he shown were messers btw, he even told you.
      Lastly, it seems to me that you think swords are designated simply from their blades, which is wrong. Swords are made up of a blade, a crossguard, a handle, and a pommel, which all are reference ponts when designating them.

    • @patrickbrett66
      @patrickbrett66 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @P Ciprian Skal did specify in the video that he currently doesn't own a Falchion so what he held was just for demonstration only ;)

  • @Rjinsi667
    @Rjinsi667 5 ปีที่แล้ว +181

    You get a thumbs up for getting right and explaining the german grammar on the example of: "ein langes Messer" and "das lange Messer"

    • @Felixr2
      @Felixr2 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      And pronouncing it all without much of an accent, to boot!

    • @GaladorLP
      @GaladorLP 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Eingentlich ist beides was du geschrieben hast ein normales messer welches länger ist.
      Bei dieser Waffe muss Lange oder Langes ebenfalls groß geschrieben werden. Geben tut es das mit s oder ohne.
      Auch gibts das als ein Wort, Langmesser was aber auch eine waffe der Indianer bezeichnet.

    • @alexanderbertisch6328
      @alexanderbertisch6328 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think he used to live in München
      Bin Schweizer übrigens

  • @CJ_F0x
    @CJ_F0x 5 ปีที่แล้ว +362

    Falchion or messer. 'Not a legal loophole for owning a sword, but for making a sword. '

    • @Nerobyrne
      @Nerobyrne 5 ปีที่แล้ว +40

      indeed, if it wasn't for the German guild system, we probably wouldn't have the Messer as a weapon.

    • @StormBringare
      @StormBringare 5 ปีที่แล้ว +46

      So it was basically knifemakers that wanted to grab some of the sword market?

    • @CJ_F0x
      @CJ_F0x 5 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      @@StormBringare At least when it came down to single edged swords. Plus there was the whole thing about blade length. The swordsmiths tended to stick with certain lengths, whereas the knifemakers could basically do what they wanted seeming as at first, legally, the only difference between a sword and a knife was the shape of the handle.

    • @Ranstone
      @Ranstone 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Whenever I see someone who knows this nuanced fact, it just makes my day.

    • @Gobl1n
      @Gobl1n 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@StormBringare exactly that

  • @PobortzaPl
    @PobortzaPl 5 ปีที่แล้ว +116

    Shadiversity made a series about falchion and messer. Difference is mostly in grip, falchion has sword grip (because it was made and sold by swordmaker), messer has riveted knife grip (since it was made and sold by knifemaker).

    • @CJ_F0x
      @CJ_F0x 5 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      Don't forget about our good friend James G. Elmslie

    • @ambrosewetherbee8301
      @ambrosewetherbee8301 5 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      And let's not forget the fact that the periods of regular use also dictated the general blade dimensions(not just thickness but also presence or absence of distal taper) of falchions and messers, as well as prominence of the implementation of a point/tip on the blade.
      It's a shame that some sword types don't get as much attention from a scholarly view. As far as I know only James Elmslie has given the falchion and messer sword types any thorough study. I suppose that's mainly why there is so much confusion as to what falchions and messers were/are.

    • @Skallagrim
      @Skallagrim  5 ปีที่แล้ว +41

      Yeah, that's what I pointed out.

    • @ambrosewetherbee8301
      @ambrosewetherbee8301 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Skallagrim True!

    • @PobortzaPl
      @PobortzaPl 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Skallagrim omg! OMG! I was noticed by great Skall!

  • @jeffk3570
    @jeffk3570 5 ปีที่แล้ว +266

    I just can't get over how good the Albion Knecht looks, such a cool looking sword

    • @postacorona6746
      @postacorona6746 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Jeff K same way with the town guard side sword man

    • @prismaticc_abyss
      @prismaticc_abyss 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      except that it doesnt have a pommel

    • @postacorona6746
      @postacorona6746 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Richard Graf true, you can’t end thine opponent rightly

  • @mbnhiphopmusik6429
    @mbnhiphopmusik6429 5 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    Honestly, I find the Kriegsmesser to be an incredebly gorgous weapon somehow... It just kinda looks elegant for a sword that size I think.
    Anyone else?

    • @limdoo-yr.8748
      @limdoo-yr.8748 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It is--

    • @DD_Dietriech
      @DD_Dietriech 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I main hand one when not using spears or polearms. I adore them and find they working incredibly well when switching between Longsword, saber, and messer techniques. Guaranteed to throw your opponent for a loop.

  • @strangerakari2836
    @strangerakari2836 5 ปีที่แล้ว +146

    Obviously, you can spam r1 with falchion.

    • @purplehaze2358
      @purplehaze2358 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Press "F" to pay respects
      For both this meme and the meme in the comment i am replying to.

    • @salvale9184
      @salvale9184 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      That’s literally my ds1 build

    • @ShrympyRS
      @ShrympyRS 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Moonlightblade + falchion + elite knight set + darkwood grain ring.
      I forgot who popularized that build but boy was it cancer to fight against

    • @salvale9184
      @salvale9184 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ShrympyRS *sweats nervously*

    • @Ropewatch
      @Ropewatch 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      You mean cmw + falchion + fast roll + sexy elite knight set? I fucking loved that shit!

  • @Cologne.1948
    @Cologne.1948 5 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    For some reason it makes me happy to hear you speaking German.
    Greetings from Germany ^^

    • @seretith3513
      @seretith3513 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Danke, Ebenso
      (Thanks, same to you)

    • @seretith3513
      @seretith3513 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      XD
      Nein, jetzt erst richtig gelesen, LMAO

  • @spencerjordan305
    @spencerjordan305 5 ปีที่แล้ว +332

    Sword nerds are the best kind of nerds

    • @CJ_F0x
      @CJ_F0x 5 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      And do you know why? Because swords are awesome, full stop.

    • @HenshinFanatic
      @HenshinFanatic 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      As much as I like swords, I generally prefer chain weapons like flails with polearms in a close second.

    • @EL_DORADO-db4gl
      @EL_DORADO-db4gl 5 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Hahaha sword nerds unite, except those nerds that overworship anime & katanas.

    • @EL_DORADO-db4gl
      @EL_DORADO-db4gl 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@CJ_F0x swords!!!

    • @CJ_F0x
      @CJ_F0x 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@EL_DORADO-db4gl SWOOOOOOOOORDSSSZZZ

  • @kairussell7372
    @kairussell7372 5 ปีที่แล้ว +127

    Im Not being " a hater " in the slightest
    But this is the skal video I've be waiting for. I feel like its been forever since we got just a regular video. Personally, I'm not a fan of the live streams or the let's play etc. If you're doing them, some people must like them, but itd be cool if we could still get like 1 or 2 videos like this per month. I've see a whole bunch of skallagrim notifications but they're were always live streams, vr let's plays, etc. These are the type of videos that won me over, and it just feels like its been forever since we got one thats all.

    • @snoweefrost4412
      @snoweefrost4412 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      He needs to do what makes money. Like he said a long time ago his HEMA videos don't always bring in money.

    • @fabiovarra3698
      @fabiovarra3698 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      in this last month, with cristmast and all, he put on 14 video, of this 2 are vr let's play and 4 from lives
      all the other 8 video are his classic video:
      swords tests
      sword review
      hema
      historic autencity in videogame

    • @Skallagrim
      @Skallagrim  5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      Last month I put up the video on partial sharpening of sword blades, the Darksword Armory testing and review, the video about the high end messer, historical accuracy in Assassin's Creed Odyssey, and the ones about strength in sword fighting, longsword techniques, and leather / bone armor. Sounds like you might have missed a lot?

    • @kairussell7372
      @kairussell7372 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Skallagrim I watched some of them. This is the just first video in a long time that had that spark though, thats all I'm saying. Armor, video games accuracy, I skip those videos personally.
      Must have been a soft spot because your cronies came to bat lol.

    • @shawnwolf5961
      @shawnwolf5961 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I personally love his live streams. I try to make it to every one, but there's been a few I've had to miss. As for "his cronies coming to bat," I'll skip the mild offensive nature of that comment and just say that his scrutiny of fantasy weapons and video game weapons are extremely popular. He himself has said he's not sure why that is, but they are. And his actual HEMA type videos, though widely requested, get much fewer views. (I wish they didn't because I love those too, and his sparring videos).
      Then again, I am a fan of Skallagrim and have been for a long time so, anything he puts out, I will watch.

  • @danteangel
    @danteangel 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Shad did a great video series on the modern classification and distinction of the Messer and Falchion which Skallagrim did a good job of summarizing. Great content as always Skallagrim

  • @shellum
    @shellum 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    How does this have dislikes? It's informative and entertaining. I love this channel.

    • @Skallagrim
      @Skallagrim  5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Every video in existence with more than 1000 views has dislikes. Doesn't matter if you save kittens or work on curing cancer, somebody is going to dislike it.

    • @shellum
      @shellum 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@Skallagrim It's stupid and shows how childish mankind really is. I don't know, maybe i'm looking too far into it.

  • @vinland5558
    @vinland5558 5 ปีที่แล้ว +152

    I mean the Falchion in fire embelm is not *a* Falchion, it is a named weapon.
    Why it's called that, who the hell knows, but it's not like there's 10 of them kicking around in a game.

    • @boartank
      @boartank 5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      I guess you haven't tried using cheats. I make sure to arm Eirika with at least 2 Falchions everytime.

    • @FerunaLutelou
      @FerunaLutelou 5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      I remember that in one of the games there were 2 Falchions, cause time travel. Still the same sword.

    • @HenshinFanatic
      @HenshinFanatic 5 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      Actually two different named weapons. The Falchion belonging to Chrom is the same one that once belonged to the hero - king Marth while the Parallel Falchion is a separate sword that has time travel powers. Notably when the Falchion is empowered by the titular Fire Emblem it becomes the Exalted Falchion, a more powerful form that has different properties than the Falchion. Now why Nintendo and Intelligent Systems decided to name what appear to be arming swords after a different style of sword is beyond me.

    • @ChrissieBear
      @ChrissieBear 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      I am immediately reminded of Caliburn/Caladbolg. Both were the names of mythical swords, but are also believed to have been generic words for "sword".

    • @Nerobyrne
      @Nerobyrne 5 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      that's the weirdest part.
      It's a sword NAMED Falchion.
      I guess it's like how Geralt's horse is named Roach.
      But in that case it would be more like if it's named Donkey. Frankly it's just confusing and I also have no idea why they did this.

  • @lamiasfaust6867
    @lamiasfaust6867 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Id love a commonly confused classification series, this was super helpful and knowing more about say a saber vs a cutlass or a cutlass vs a scimitar would be awesome too

  • @conqvistguides7313
    @conqvistguides7313 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    If a messer's nail is pointing up instead of down, is that more preferable? I would assume catching is better than deflecting, but I would like to know. If they dont make them that way would that be an upgrade hypothetically?

  • @cegorach3135
    @cegorach3135 5 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Falchion is better because they have pommels that are bigger to be thrown

    • @antonf.9278
      @antonf.9278 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You are comparing knives with swords

  • @kemvaros5031
    @kemvaros5031 5 ปีที่แล้ว +47

    It it cuts, Grog use.

    • @dragonkid1818
      @dragonkid1818 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Only that Fjord is the one using a falchion, not Grog xD

    • @joynelbonetdelgado4952
      @joynelbonetdelgado4952 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wow,wow i thought Grog was an Orc beer?

  • @TwentythreePER
    @TwentythreePER 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I really like how the messer, especially your example, looks. I don't know what it is about Germanic blades but they had a unique style and look that I appreciate. Thanks for the video.

  • @jowaru5545
    @jowaru5545 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really awesome, that you checked the german grammar and pronunciation. Most people do not do that. That shows again how much effort you put in your videos.

  • @Psiberzerker
    @Psiberzerker 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Also Hanger. I mostly call mine a hanger, basically the same concept. "Swords are being misnamed." Well, actually, most of them are just called "Swords." Even Katana is just Japanese for Sword. Arming swords, Longswords, broadswords, bastard swords... Most of them were just called a "Sword." if you want to get technical.

    • @Psiberzerker
      @Psiberzerker 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      0:38 "This thing." I'd call that a yataghan.

    • @mancubwwa
      @mancubwwa 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Psiberzerker well some were called sabers. Usually curved ones as oposed to straight ones were both were in use...

    • @Psiberzerker
      @Psiberzerker 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mancubwwa Yes, and Most of them were called Swords. A saber is a class of Sword. You can get more specific, but when you get to "That's not a Fachion, it's a Messer" you're splitting hairs. You know what sei Germans called Dussaks when they got to Czecheslovakia? "Messers." A Shamshir, Talwar, Dhao, Cutlass, Hanger, or Katana could all be called Sabers, so could they be called Swords. In fact, if you look up Hanger on Wikipedia, you'll be re-directed to Cutlass.

    • @Chaotic-warp
      @Chaotic-warp 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Psiberzerker Schwert, Säbel

  • @mythguard6865
    @mythguard6865 5 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    The yatamessaber has returned!

  • @r.matthews594
    @r.matthews594 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was a fantastic video. I'm a bit late because the semester began, but it was worth the wait. Just excellent.

  • @Shatteredlightunderfadingstars
    @Shatteredlightunderfadingstars 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks Skal. I've been trying to explain this very subject for years.

  • @marimariowo3317
    @marimariowo3317 5 ปีที่แล้ว +193

    Isn't Falchion the actual name of the sword and not the type of sword though?

    • @Sabshark
      @Sabshark 5 ปีที่แล้ว +48

      You are correct

    • @windhelmguard5295
      @windhelmguard5295 5 ปีที่แล้ว +54

      yes, thats why the F is capitalized.

    • @alphaxtitania5597
      @alphaxtitania5597 5 ปีที่แล้ว +79

      Yes, but it having that name gives wrong implications. Whether the developers actually THINK that's what a falchion looks like or not, the fact that Skall felt the need to clarify it means that more than a few people DO think it's an actual falchion.

    • @ChrissieBear
      @ChrissieBear 5 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      @@alphaxtitania5597 This has historical precedent, though, several mythical swords have names which are words used to describe a sword, such as Caliburn, Caladbolg, and Lævateinn.

    • @JakenTheGreat
      @JakenTheGreat 5 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      @@alphaxtitania5597 I feel as though the majority of people will look at falchion in Fire Emblem and know right away that that's not a real sword

  • @MannyBrum
    @MannyBrum 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I think it's important to note that the falchion (and glaive as well) have the archaic definition of simply meaning sword, though the usage has changed. I think in fantasy lore which draws inspiration from older writings the term falchion might be used interchangeably with sword. Fantasy is kind of unique in that a lot of words get used with their archaic definitions quite commonly.

  • @tubekulose
    @tubekulose 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Both, your knowledge about the German grammar and your pronunciation amaze me every time! Well done!

  • @sullyb23511
    @sullyb23511 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Shadversity's falchion and messer video series really opened my eyes on this subject.

  • @Pouraud
    @Pouraud 5 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    Yeah, like the others are saying, Falchion is the name of Naga's tooth. The type of sword is never mentioned, though it is likely a longsword due to it's two-handed grip and near one-handed blade.

  • @ShikiRen
    @ShikiRen 5 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    Pretty well pronounced German there for the most part :D

    • @AAAAAAAA-vd6zv
      @AAAAAAAA-vd6zv 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      He’s scandinavian. As much as I know those languages are rather simillar.

    • @ArsinoMeteor
      @ArsinoMeteor 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@AAAAAAAA-vd6zv they are indeed. I knew norwegians who learned and spoke german without any accent

    • @LurkerDaBerzerker
      @LurkerDaBerzerker 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Skall is German, though I believe he said something about his German being rusty due to not using it much.
      (And he also apparently doesn't like his German side/heritage, for whatever reason.
      Oh well, I guess that just means more gothic plate for me.)

    • @ArsinoMeteor
      @ArsinoMeteor 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@LurkerDaBerzerker He is definitely not german. His german is not rusty, he has an accent. A scandinavian one. After researching he is norwegian or sweden and worked in germany for a while where his german is from.

    • @LurkerDaBerzerker
      @LurkerDaBerzerker 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Arsino Meteor Then I don't get why he says he doesn't identify with his heritage, if he is identifying with his heritage?
      (Scandinavian/Norwegian)
      (I would like to ask where you got this info from, considering he has said himself he was born in Germany during a livestream?)

  • @KillingMeat
    @KillingMeat 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your videos always make my day, thanks Skall ^^

  • @BladeFitAcademy
    @BladeFitAcademy 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Skall, your bumper music. It always makes me feel I've just found a treasure map and I'm gearing up for some epic quest.

  • @jeremyknop5378
    @jeremyknop5378 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I've always just looked at the grip and pommel to tell the difference. Messers in my experience always have a knife grip and pommel construction where as falchions have sword hilt construction. I was always led to believe that Messers came about by the knife makers guild who used a loophole in the manufacturing laws for sword making by making swords with knife hilt construction to then sell them as "knives" at lower prices then swords to undercut the competition (sword makers guild).

  • @RagPlaysGames
    @RagPlaysGames 5 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    One's pinned, ones riveted. One has a pommel, one doesn't.

    • @veliest1886
      @veliest1886 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      of course, we all know which one is more useful.
      (on the sidenote messers look usable aswell)

    • @Tobias-pu2rc
      @Tobias-pu2rc 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And the third is made out of a Devine Dragons fang

  • @jonathan.calabrese
    @jonathan.calabrese 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have to say your vids are very well done and extremely enjoyable, keep it up.

  • @hammatron8403
    @hammatron8403 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    my only proper reference for falchion before this video was critical role, and I always assumed the main part was the clip end and curved blade, this is really interesting, love your work

  • @alfatazer_8991
    @alfatazer_8991 5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    What I want to know is...
    Where did you get that dope-ass shirt?!

  • @BenSenf
    @BenSenf 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Did you ever heard of the Emslie Typology? James Elmslie has an interesting take on the matter.

  • @EzioTheDemonicOne
    @EzioTheDemonicOne 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for clearing up the fire emblem situation. I have lost count of how many times I've had to explain that one

  • @erikvarela2045
    @erikvarela2045 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great rundown, and bonus points for the German grammar lesson!

  • @LukiParkour
    @LukiParkour 5 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    Knappe, man bringe mir das lange Messer! Schneller! Oder wollt ihr dass ich einen Knauf nach euch werfe?! - German Skal

    • @daanwilmer
      @daanwilmer 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Die Knaufwurf: die tötlichste Waffe des Mittelalters und der Renaissance.

  • @vast634
    @vast634 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    A dull practice sword is called "Buttermesser"

  • @Coffeepotion
    @Coffeepotion 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hearing you pronounce german words warms my heart :) It's almost flawless!

  • @jasondearborn2349
    @jasondearborn2349 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    More of this kinda stuff skal! Also made me wonder about covering messer and buckler if it was a thing

    • @vote4wes
      @vote4wes ปีที่แล้ว

      Definitely a thing 😁

  • @Dave-so7fy
    @Dave-so7fy 5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    I have your sword mod in Skyrim!

  • @connorforce01
    @connorforce01 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Basically:
    Falchion = Sword hilt
    Messer = Knife hilt
    Blade shape and size is irrelevant since both can have either.

    • @lalli8152
      @lalli8152 ปีที่แล้ว

      I personally think its bit more complex over all. Would you call for example knife or dagger with no riveted handle with scales, but peened construction sword suddenly just because of the handle? I think basicly criteria Skall listed applies to historical specific germanic sword we call messer, but its confusing since it just means "knife" but its not really that more confusing how in china word dao means both knife, and sword sized objects. But we sort of need list of criteria today classifying the messers i doubt people back then cared that much like german guy who ends up with english falchion likely would call it just messer or sword some english falchions even have the nagel. But i would personally say both falchions, and messers are type of sword

  • @marcusfridh8489
    @marcusfridh8489 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Matt easton said in one of his videos, that the biggest diffrence between falcoins and messers are that falcions has more of a common swordsmithingprocess with a normal swordshilt, while the messer is often smithed as a knife, with most of them fulltanghilts

  • @camerontungate
    @camerontungate 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    2:39 Nice to see a shoutout to a museum in my home city.

  • @KanaiIle
    @KanaiIle 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hmn. Shad made some very lenghty videos on this topic, and the baseline there was "Messer and Falchion are the same swords, just with different handle constructions".

  • @nthesinningfish1938
    @nthesinningfish1938 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    shad's five part mini-series on the difference between the two

  • @Marty-im8qb
    @Marty-im8qb 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think it is the most helpfull to see the Messer as a literall long version of a Mushroom knife. Many people (especially older ones) have these kind of small knifes. More modern ones are foldable but the older ones look basically exactly like a messer just smaller and without the guard.

  • @nicholaswhitman4620
    @nicholaswhitman4620 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Kriegsmesser is one of my favorites youve got on here. Love hearing about it and seeing it

  • @FirebladeXXL
    @FirebladeXXL 5 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    your german is not bad my dude!

    • @acediadekay3793
      @acediadekay3793 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      he is half german, half norwegian but he lives in Canada now, If I remember correctly.

    • @FirebladeXXL
      @FirebladeXXL 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@acediadekay3793 from what i gathered over the years, he is born in norway and moved to canada. because of his accent i originally thought hes from germany but i think he actually never lived there.

    • @ArsinoMeteor
      @ArsinoMeteor 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@FirebladeXXL he is definitely not german native. You can hear a scandinavian accent when he speaks german

    • @FirebladeXXL
      @FirebladeXXL 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ArsinoMeteor i mean his english accent.

    • @ArsinoMeteor
      @ArsinoMeteor 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@FirebladeXXL Yeah I know, but this accent is more like a germanIC accent, like languages like german, norwegian and so on

  • @bar0nger
    @bar0nger 5 ปีที่แล้ว +147

    But what about a Falchion that thinks it's trapped in a Messer's body

    • @zakd2124
      @zakd2124 5 ปีที่แล้ว +59

      "my halberd identifies as a longsword so you have to allow me to use it in HEMA"

    • @fitzyakamcsyke
      @fitzyakamcsyke 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      I used to be a Falchion, now I'm a Messer.
      More people pander to me now.

    • @nickburton9366
      @nickburton9366 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Or in fairness you could use this as an example of why strict yes or no definitions don't work in history or biology, cuz historically sword making didn't have a trading standards body and neither does mother nature

    • @Yehnsei
      @Yehnsei 5 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      Did you just assume that sword's classification?

    • @VikingBadass94
      @VikingBadass94 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Oh...you went _there._
      *slow clap*
      Oh you cheeky devil

  • @greyriddance64
    @greyriddance64 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for clearing this one out.
    It was pretty messered up before your explanation.

  • @DrIngo1980
    @DrIngo1980 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very good pronunciation of all the German terms. And great explanation of the German grammar thing. Overall very interesting video. Vielen Dank!

  • @JustinY.
    @JustinY. 5 ปีที่แล้ว +188

    If you aren't certain about the, just use both!

    • @ryanr3357
      @ryanr3357 5 ปีที่แล้ว +40

      WHY WHY WHY IS NOWHERE SAFE

    • @thegdpwhytea439
      @thegdpwhytea439 5 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      GET A LIFE

    • @micohazakin8576
      @micohazakin8576 5 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      You again! Silver chariot,slice this boi up

    • @Game...007
      @Game...007 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hello there again.

    • @BittyBittyBongHit
      @BittyBittyBongHit 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@micohazakin8576 is that a jojo reference? :p

  • @bizarreworld2510
    @bizarreworld2510 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Skall you missed an opportunity to collaborate with Shad on this Falchion topic

    • @Skallagrim
      @Skallagrim  5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Did he cover it too? I don't have the time to keep up to date with what everyone else is doing, so no idea.

    • @shadiversity
      @shadiversity 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      ​@@Skallagrim Yep, I'd definitely suggest part three of the series as the previous parts covers more commonly known stuff.

    • @Leubast
      @Leubast 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I actually thought this was a @Shadiversity video when I first saw it in my feed.

  • @ryanhingston575
    @ryanhingston575 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    skall has been fighting his demons so hard lately he bust two knuckles god daymnnn,awesome video keep it up

  • @DudokX
    @DudokX 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I really like how your big messer looks. Pretty cool sword!

  • @nickodriver
    @nickodriver 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    How about the Dark Souls falchion? 10/10, would dual-wield again?

    • @LorisTheUntethered
      @LorisTheUntethered 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Dual-wield? Pffft, stick Darkmoon Blade on and 2-hand that bish.

  • @purplehaze2358
    @purplehaze2358 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The messer
    AKA
    The dank shank.

  • @Velkan1396
    @Velkan1396 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    5:20 Here in the Iberian península we've found various types of messers, we didn't called them messers obviusly but there are equivalents spread all over europe.
    Also, as far I'm concerned, one handed messers are called langes messers

  • @procrastinatinggamer
    @procrastinatinggamer 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Started wondering about this subject recently when I started watching campaign 2 of Critical Role. Travis Willingham’s character in that, the half-orc Fjord, wields what’s called a falchion but - since there’s no such weapon in the D&D 5th Edition ruleset - is mechanically a longsword, which in the game is a weapon that can be wielded either with one hand or both (with 5e simplifying the difference to just “you roll a d10 for damage instead of a d8”).
    What this has meant for both how the DM describes the weapon as Fjord unlocks more of his class’ powers (he’s a Hexblade Warlock, so an Eldritch being is giving him power via the sword) and how the various fan artists have interpreted it... the sword’s appearance in fan art tends to end up looking like some kind of falchion/kriegsmesser/scimitar hybrid. You can really see what I mean in the new animated intro the show has - just search for “Critical Role intro Mighty Nein” and you’ll find it, thumbnail should have a huge red dragon looming over the party.

  • @Helsvga
    @Helsvga 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Kriegmesser ftw.

  • @notmynameanymore941
    @notmynameanymore941 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I just got done watching 'Alec steele' finish/making a 'Falchion' and was like "gotta consult ' *ende* of all men RIGHTLY*

  • @TheTaleForge
    @TheTaleForge 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Going by Wikipedia, the biggest difference is in the hilt; a messer is technically a knife, and the hilt construction often reflects that. I have also heard it tossed around (with no confirmation) that this construction and terminology may be a way of manipulating sword bans in the interest of keeping a blade for self defense.

  • @waylandwarner7727
    @waylandwarner7727 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    3:18. I'm actually descended from John Conyers, Skall. Thank you so much for pointing out his sword.

  • @ct7567CaptRex
    @ct7567CaptRex 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Shad has a good series about this topic. Id advise to watch it.

  • @venturapaco11
    @venturapaco11 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Skall, shadiversity already made a video on this and even brought out a classification system for single egged medieval swords, I think you should check it out. In the end the only true difference is in the handle and pommel

  • @Noromdiputs
    @Noromdiputs 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Oh Shadiversity did this once. I remember coming away with the impression that there was a large amount of overlap(possibly it was just the handle?). Now I wonder if there even is a commonly agreed upon definition.

  • @B1GSL1M
    @B1GSL1M 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Im sure there is a vid somewhere from a person who is considered an expert in Falchion/Messers who said that there have been examples found of the same type of blade being used on both swords, but as you clearly say the only determinable difference between the two is the handle and crossguard and thats what determines whether it is a Falchion or Maesser

  • @connorkenyon
    @connorkenyon 5 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    To defend the Falchion from FE (aside from the fact it's a fantasy game) it doesn't purport to be a Falchion it's the Falchion (Or Parallel Falchion) it's a name rather than a type.

    • @minte1972
      @minte1972 5 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      Still, thats like naming a trumpet the Legendary Saxophone

    • @DragonXZero
      @DragonXZero 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@minte1972 Bitch don't you wanna be the wielder of the legendary Saxophone?

    • @minte1972
      @minte1972 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@DragonXZero Fair

    • @kahate7328
      @kahate7328 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      If it called falchion. IT CAN KILL A DURAGON

    • @JK-ko6en
      @JK-ko6en 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      We all know Skall can't resist making pointless criticisms of fantasy swords in general.

  • @lord_termy5142
    @lord_termy5142 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    It would be "Das Langmesser" because "Das Lange Messer" would only be a long knife. Same with "Großmesser" and "Großes Messer"

    • @bloodfrog8657
      @bloodfrog8657 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I think it depends on the time period. In modern german yes, but back in the days even the longsword was called „Das lange Schwert“ instead of „Das Langschwert“.

    • @ArsinoMeteor
      @ArsinoMeteor 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Actually he said the long knife. His translations were correct.

    • @ArsinoMeteor
      @ArsinoMeteor 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@bloodfrog8657 Yeah but you also say longsword in english instead of long sword so.

    • @Ranstone
      @Ranstone 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Das cool.

  • @dukeofmania6504
    @dukeofmania6504 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'll be honest I never knew the difference between a messer and falchion, let alone what a messer was. Thanks for the video

  • @Peacich
    @Peacich 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good video. Very informative. Thank you

  • @igorlorenc1445
    @igorlorenc1445 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Shadiversity made a whole series about it already.

    • @juandelata
      @juandelata 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      But hey, this one's shorter

    • @ambrosewetherbee8301
      @ambrosewetherbee8301 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@juandelata True but Shad's is far more informative, especially because of his collaboration/consultation with James Elmslie on his work on falchion and messer typology.
      I enjoy Skallagrim's work but to be quite frank, nothing he said in this video isn't anything that can't be found upon a cursory web search for falchions and messers. However, it does aggregate the commonly shared information so it's still a video worth watching but I believe that anyone who wants to really get substantial information about falchions and messers should watch Shad's video series on the topic because of its thoroughness as well as its presentation of information not found in most other discussions on the matter.

  • @ColtNomad
    @ColtNomad 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Any Critical Role fans here for the falchion talk?

    • @AlephSharp
      @AlephSharp 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Im a fan of his, and CR. This channel is *great*, for, in addition to interesting historical combat context and interesting tool reveiws, a way of dealing with a little more accurate D&D combat and weapon descriptions.

    • @elgostine
      @elgostine 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      well i was a sword nerd before critical role but yeah

    • @AlephSharp
      @AlephSharp 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@elgostine also yeah, swords and other historical weapons are interesting

    • @ColtNomad
      @ColtNomad 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I was a CR fan first but because of d&d I have started looking into medieval and all of historical weaponry, combat, and even food.

    • @elgostine
      @elgostine 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ColtNomad just a tip, be wary of weights, most swords are ok, some of the maces and axes are overwight,
      its not as bad as earlier editions (pathfinder lists a heavy mace as 8lb which is the equivelent of a sizable sledgehammer

  • @DeVeloxVulpes
    @DeVeloxVulpes 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Informative indeed. Thank you.

  • @fellsbane1126
    @fellsbane1126 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video! Lindybeige has a really good video explaining messers as well.

  • @potatoradio
    @potatoradio 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Talks about Falchion vs Messer, holding a sword that could be also considered a cutlass... God I am that nerd... lets call them Dadao and heavy scimitar choppas, sabers most Japanese swords slashers, rapier - chinese straight swords pokers, estocks , semanches(?) Straight chisel tip "ninja" sword as armor piercing.

  • @franciscojaviernavarroabad7757
    @franciscojaviernavarroabad7757 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Messer? This means knife in german

    • @InSanic13
      @InSanic13 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah, there have been some theories about the origins of the "messer" sword. One of the more plausible theories is that knife-making guilds wanted to get into the sword market, so they started making really long knives (hence why the messer sword has a somewhat knife-like grip).

    • @someramdomguy9951
      @someramdomguy9951 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Ja so ist das

    • @trollobob4799
      @trollobob4799 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Aber sowas von mein lieber Freund Messer heißt das hier

    • @windhelmguard5295
      @windhelmguard5295 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      well that depends on the type of messer.
      the "messer" that you cut bread with is translated as "knife"
      the "messer" that is really just a flachion with a knife hanlde is usually refered to as a "knoif"
      proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apocalypsesurvivalist.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2FRubberKnife2.jpg&f=1
      you call this a knife.
      proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.m0pZ7fy7i4u9mm_nMkqR6QHaEL%26pid%3D15.1&f=1
      this is a knoif.

    • @Wolfuskaktus
      @Wolfuskaktus 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jes

  • @Riceball01
    @Riceball01 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    You know, some of those falchions from those old paintings remind me a lot of what used to be called scimitars in popular media. I've also seen that style of sword used a lot as "pirate swords" in cartoons and games for kids.

  • @ghostlygardener5644
    @ghostlygardener5644 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You should probably look up the Elmslie typology. Messer and Falchion is pretty much the same, the hilts is what differs.

  • @pegglethon4553
    @pegglethon4553 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think distinguishing from a Falchion and a Messer is a matter of how long/big the guard is. I've noticed recently in my very, very short time observing and telling apart sword types that a Messer generally has a smaller guard than a Falchion does.

  • @zhenbiaoli297
    @zhenbiaoli297 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Da Dao is not just means“big knife”,it also means a tpye of polearm which has a single edge blade on it--just like a glaive--in Chinese martial arts and ancient Chinese army.When we talk about the Chinese martial art only using a single edge sword(without shield or twin knives),it calls “单刀”(Dan Dao,one knife).

  • @kemvaros5031
    @kemvaros5031 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video, as always btw

  • @sealo97
    @sealo97 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Take a look at Elmslie’s typology of single edged medieval era swords that’s the best method I have found in identify differences between these two

  • @thebenforever
    @thebenforever ปีที่แล้ว

    That top picture of a peasant's defense knife 8:50 reminds me of Aragorn's hunting knife.

  • @HiopX
    @HiopX 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Do you know about the Elmslie typology of Falchions and Messer? Shad made a video about it a year or so ago.

  • @MarcellusGrey
    @MarcellusGrey 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting. I would love to build my sword collection with these weapons.

  • @spencerburkhart555
    @spencerburkhart555 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    4:10 I like that top blade seems like something I can make easily just a little bit less extravagant handle

  • @MrDmitriRavenoff
    @MrDmitriRavenoff 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The Messer is probably my favorite historical sword. I just like the look of it and its utility.

    • @windhelmguard5295
      @windhelmguard5295 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      a messer is literally just a falchion with a knife grip.

  • @JaayCeez
    @JaayCeez 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Question: Did pirates primarily used Falchion swords? The style you showed here are similar, at least the hilt area of them. I'm curious if they used them or they are just similar swords but not actual Falchion.

  • @ApothecaryTerry
    @ApothecaryTerry 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    11 minutes of pure pedantry. Gets a like from me!

  • @Ravenblues
    @Ravenblues 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    0:15 I did that to an author he fixed it on the next book, he thought a broadsword was this huge two-handed weapon like a zweihander on steroids. It is good to advocate for accuracy.

  • @user-yc6hn3gm6z
    @user-yc6hn3gm6z 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Please make a video about Seax (Scramasax) knives

  • @Cysubtor_8vb
    @Cysubtor_8vb 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I was pondering adding a kriegmesser just the other day. Was wondering, though, do they ever have a sharpened false edge to allow more carryover from longsword?

  • @matthewledford6693
    @matthewledford6693 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Will you make a video on how to display/store swords? I have a decent of swords and and a cluttered room to store them in, so I'd love suggestions or ideas. By the way, I've been watching your videos since 2014 and love your content!!

  • @TheFischsalat
    @TheFischsalat 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    @skallagrim
    As a german myself i congratulate you fir your proper pronounciation of the word "nagel". It is much apreciated that you try to pronounce words of forein languages in a proper way.
    For your interest: your r sounds still a little to english. Try a rolling scottish r if you want that shoult nail it more.