Is This The Saddest Doctor Who Finale Ever?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ย. 2024
- Over the years, Doctor Who's climactic Series 2 finale has become well-known due to the dramatic departure of companion Rose Tyler. But is it good?
► Patreon
/ harbowholmes
► Subscribe!
/ harbowholmes
► Twitter
/ harbowholmes
► Discord
/ discord
► Reddit
/ harbowholmes
#DoctorWho #Series2 #Review
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
(No it's not the saddest, but you know how the TH-cam game is played...)
Also, if you want early access to videos and other neat exclusives, check out my Patreon: www.patreon.com/harbowholmes
1:11 "Sidemen vs Daleks" Lol
I was about to say “Answer to the title, no it’s not. Stolen Earth/Journey’s End is sadder because Donna losing her memories is a fait worse than death and definitely worse than being stuck on another world and LIVING! Rose’s exit is so overrated and bad for me because I care for Daleks Vs Cybermen not a clingy BEECH complaining about leaving her boyfriend for a random spaceman! Sorry vented there for a bit 😬 if you count End of Time and Time of the Doctor and Twice Upon a Time then maybe they’d be sadder as all those regenerations are heartbreaking!”
Hah, I think its the saddest. Am I the only one that adores the Doctor and Roses romance?
@@Hazz22 Don't you worry. The 10th Doctor and Rose dynamic is my favourite!
To me, the saddest Doctor Who episode ever was "The Angels Take Manhattan".
My favourite moment is when Pete and Jackie meet again
“I’m rich”
“I don’t care about that.... how rich?”
“Very”
“I don’t care about that.... how very?”
"You will identify."
"You will identify first."
"After you."
"Ladies first."
"Daleks have no concept of gender."
"You have identified as Dalek."
"Bugger, that was clever."
"The Cybermen are known for their cleverness."
"So you are Cybermen."
"Bugger!"
A parody so good it makes you take the original less seriously lmao
"I like your handle bars! WHERE DID YOU GET THEM?"
Said the dustbin wearing a skirt covered in dIscO BalLs!
@@theredstonebuilder1120 THEY ARE NOT DISCO BALLS! EXTERMINATE!
Ahhh, I love that dalek/cyber man parody
Is this the saddest finale ever? Yes but actually no, because it introduces Donna who then goes on to have the saddest ending for a companion.
Yeah, and rose in the long time ends with a doctor anyway...
@@rodrigobueno8652 dirty old man,he’s nearly 900 years older than Rose 😳
@@CashelOConnolly not the one she ends up with. That one is like less than 24 hours old when we last saw him
@@rodrigobueno8652 Well, 3 years later, so does Donna
i'm not upate to dotor who anymore, i dropped out during twelve doctor and as any of the streamings i ahve have doctor who anymore i couldn't catch up D=@@drake96969
Murray Gold should definitely be a name heard more often when talking about DW. His job is insane and brings really a lot to the storytelling of the whole show.
He is to Doctor Who as John Williams is to Star Wars. (Sorry for bad english)
Man was a legend. I haven't watched any full chibnall era episodes or listened to any of the new composer's music, and I'm sure they're great, but Murray Gold was just THE doctor who composer
I always think it’s sad that this little moment setting up the ghost trap is overlooked-
Jackie: “Just think of it though- all the people we’ve lost. Our families coming back home. Don’t you think it’s beautiful?”
The Doctor: “I think it’s horrific.”
Standout underrated exchange between Jackie and the Doctor in both series I think. The reaction she has to his response. Almost disgusted that he could think like that. I believe drove that conversation with Rose about how she’s changed. She suddenly realised that the Doctor was hiding a whole lot more than she ever imagined, and Rose brushed it off because she knows the whole story of the Time War as far as she’s concerned.
That line also hits a lot harder after the reveal that the Time Lords were reanimating their own dead to use as soldiers during the Time War.
The Doctor's already seen the people they've lost for good coming back.
And it _was_ horrific.
Did anyone else notice the subtle hints of their seperation throughout the entire season? I'd say the RTD era's overarching plot hints are more subtle than Moffat's, like Badwolf following them in the background without being brought explicit attention to until later in the season, Saxon's name getting name dropped and the "election" happening in the background, the "Doctor-Donna" where everyone keeps mistaking them as being "together," and then Rose's face popping up everywhere in season 4, trying to catch the Doctor's attention.
So, I wondered if season 2 had any forshadowing about Rose's departure. I noticed that in Rose's adventures with the Doctor, they keep getting seperated in some way. Christmas Invasion, the Doctor is alseep for most of the episode. New Earth, Rose gets replaced by Cassandra for most of it. Tooth And Claw, Rose gets kidnapped and taken to the basement with the wolf. The Girl In The Fireplace, the Doctor momentarily gets stuck on the other side of France, thinking he can't get back to the spaceship where Rose and Mickey are. The Idiot's Lantern, she gets seperated from the Doctor again, getting face sucked by a TV for most of it. The Impossible Planet, she gets seperated when the Doctor ventures below the planet on the half-way mark, then Satan Pit where she's forcibly put on a spaceship against her will that will leave the planet and the Doctor behind. Then in Fear Her, she gets sucked away from the Doctor again, leaving him to solve the problem on his own. Has anyone else noticed this???
The companion getting separated from the Doctor is one of the most used plot in the history of the show.
Yes and in Love and Monsters Elton says how long till Rose and Jackie pay the price for getting too close to the Doctor
You will die in battle was big plot line in that one
The doctor getting seperated is a trope but I do believe there is a difference here. Instead of splitting them up because of present characters or events it's usually at one of the characters expense. In the cyberman two parter she is practically marching to her death and is lucky survive and as you said in idiots lantern she loses her face.
I think Russel's writing is way better. Especially as Saxon posters showed up in the sister show Torchwood and he made a sister show from what was originally a name drop in I believe season 1
I wouldn't necessarily call the foreshadowing "subtle" but I do agree that it's good
I was so sad to see Billie Piper go. I heard that she was not able to adjust to living & working in Cardiff and was lonely there, which, I heard, was the main reason for her leaving.
Glad she left then I loved rose but if she was unhappy then its a good thing although when she came back is was perfect
@@FlamingoSundew She was interviewed by a female Cardiff Talk Show Host. To me, it seemed they hit it off, and could have been Best Friends. If they meet sooner, I think Billie would have stayed on longer. Oh Well...
Update: Not 100% sure, but I think this is the interview I was referring to:
th-cam.com/video/rWaVpMMc84o/w-d-xo.html
@@RPGmodsFan At the same time, Russell T. Davies always intended for her to come back. Everyone else was told Rose was gone, but Davies told Billie Piper "See you in two years".
Same goes for Russell. All the crew, I imagine. In one cold 2004 night, Cardiff Bay was flooded with depressive film workers. It's not an easy move.
4:45 "You even look like him."
I love how Russell did the "Companion wants to become the Doctor but pays the price" Arc years before Clara, but it's so subtle no one talks about it. Just pay close attention to Rose in Turn Left and you'll see what I mean.
Then he did it quite literally with Donna. You see why I'm not gushing over how groundbreaking, complex, and so-unlike-any other-companion/doctor relationship-before, Clara and 12 are.
@@Ben-vf5gk - yeahhhh, I didn't wanna be that blunt cos I know Harbo loves Series 9, but Russell just casually wrote "gRoUnDbReAkInG" arcs likes these way before Moffat.
I sound like such an RTD fanboy sometimes. I adore his other work, and he is my favourite writer, but - whilst I consider his tenure of Doctor Who to be the most consistent - I have yet to find an era of the show which I can properly hold close to my heart and say "That's _my_ Doctor Who." I guess Series 10, but that's hardly an era.
@@nightowl8477 Me too, honestly these days I might say the Charlie era on Big Finish. That S1, S4-5, S10, the Pertwee and Tom Baker era and any good Master stories are my favourite parts of Who
@@Ben-vf5gk - yeah, same! I just have these little inklings of what I'd want from Who - mainly Series 1, 3, and 10, but I can't really say "Anything with the Tenth Doctor!" or "Anything under Moffat!" like others can. I'm pretty envious, honestly. That's why I structure my own seasons and my own Doctors, it's the only proper outlet I have for my love for the show. Do you do any writing, Ben? You've got some great ideas.
@@nightowl8477 Oh thank you! I've dabbled and I would like to do it more but time is an issue. There are Doctor Who scripts I have ideas for (one of the Master starting a cult, another a trippy character study of why the Master keeps returning to evil a steampunk adaptation of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde where, for once, its not a split-sodding-personality disorder. The thing I've got mostly done is a script for a short film where an occultist finds out he's going to hell and tries to change his life to save himself.
Yall wrong the best line from this episode is '*laughs* no the Doctor will not'
That unhinged giggle he does is unsettling.
The Doctor will open the ark!!!!!
The best part about this two parter, is how terrifying the Daleks are. Even something like the Cybermen are just a nuisance to them, instead of a threat. In the words of Dalek Sec "This isn't war! This is pest control!". Shame they've become a more run of the mill villain over the years.....
They got absolutely ruined after the Iron Sides in 'Victory of the Daleks'. Idk why but after that the Doctor never seemed to get actually mad about the Dalek's existence ever again
''you are superior in only one respect''
''What is that''
''you are better at dying''
Perfection
@@jackbennett6114 well eleven lives a long time more than 10, and afer victory of the daleks they daleks became are continous force in the universe again until his death, makes sense he doesent feel the same frustration after because the dalekes dosent became almsot extcint again to re get frustred about then receovering..they already recovered, he lost
Didnt wath 12 ou 13 yet tho
It’s because the daleks changed, they have prison camps and democracy after that. The doctor still sees them as evil but less so
@@lachlanmercer9381 They had prisioner camps in Destiny of the Daleks.
"even though it's sassy and camp, i love--" lol I love it BECAUSE it's sassy and camp.
Legit!
Yesss
Those are my favorites too, and Jackie does it to perfection.
When writing this story, Russell had said he pivoted the entire plot around the two levers and the Void Wall, and - watching it back - he's quite right. The whole two-parter is building up to some colossal event in that room, with those levers, and he really stuck the landing when it came to that final scene in Torchwood Tower. Deus Ex Machina done right! All the Daleks and Cybermen are sucked out of the plot, but the structure and seeding of the mechanics to make it happen are planted so well that it works. One of Russell's better resolutions.
Just a quick note: where are the cybermen when they get sucked into the void? All I see are Daleks getting pulled in.
@@theredstonebuilder1120 - they sort of teleport in? The visuals are a little skewed. But I think there are more Daleks than Cybermen, if they helps.
I still think this is one of the greatest companion departure stories of all time. Love it.
The best departure for a very deserving character!
It usually always makes me cry.
you love the fact that a heart broken girl got left trapped in a universe without the love or her life?
@@Nebenthez87 It's dramatically excellent.
@@Nebenthez87 dude, she got her dead dad back effectively, her lonely mother who needed her, and Mickey whom was lost to time willingly in a world without rose as a way for him to heal, Rose ruined them, she got them all back in end, sans Doctor.... she got lucky but in typical rose fashion didn't care hehe, i recall thinking whilst she cried, how bad it probably made her family felt
This is one of the only Doctor Who episodes that I've not only watched over and over but can still feel that constant dread and butterfly nerves for how Rose will 'die', despite knowing what will happen! Like always, another great video!
3:23 Yvonne's so interesting, yeah! All that bollocks about the "The good of the British Empire", "Torchwood refuses to go metric", and - my personal favourite - "We must protect our borders from the aliens." And yet she's so much more than the archetypal Thatcherist Harriet-Jonesite. She stands her ground for humanity, but knows when to listen to the Doctor. Phenomenal character work.
3:57 Those dead eyes, the single tear, and the repeated line "I did my duty for Queen and Country" might just be the most evocative image of modern Doctor Who. Well, aside from the final shot of Family of Blood. Gets me every time.
"Rather than being like a kid bashing some action figures together"
*Shows Moffat playing with action figures*
As a not-really-fan, the verbal confrontation between the Cult of Skaro and the Cybermen is basically the highlight of the entirety of NuWho. Practically everything the Daleks say is absolute gold, and the Cybermen get a lot of good jabs in as well, with their different robotic voices adding so much to the absurdity of what is, essentially, just a verbal slapfight that ends with the Daleks throwing a tantrum and hanging up the phone.
I like the:
*Doctor leaves the room, walking in one direction*
"No, Doctor!"
*Doctor reappears walking the other way*
moment. Perfect little trait! Kind of like the "Quit snoring!" moment from Abyss.
Couple things here.
1. This is probably my favorite Jackie in all of Doctor Who. She's hilarious, yet heartfelt. She acts as such a mediator type character, and it's amazing that she finally got her happy ending, even if she had to watch her daughter crumble. On that note:
2. It often seems like I'm the only non-teenager, male Doctor Who fan who likes Rose and the Doctor's romance. Tennant (and Eccleston) was always a more human (still quite alien, though) Doctor. Thus, it made sense that he'd fall in love. And he's not the first to do so. Hartnell had a romantic interest in the Aztecs. I wasn't a fan of this, but whatever. Not to mention, it has been stated that he's had a family (Susan Foreman, anyone?), meaning he must have had a wife at one point. The movie (which sucked, don't get me wrong) also established a romantic role for the Doctor. In all honesty, saying the Doctor has always been a non-romantic character is disingenuous. He had kids, he had a wife. Who's to say that after 900 years and a war that wiped out his people that he wouldn't be open to a more personal relationship with someone. Note, at first he didn't feel this way, but after everything in Series 1 an 2, it's not unrealistic that the two would develop a romance. Time Lords are just as much a sexual species as humans. DISCLAIMER: Tumblr fangirls take it way too far. I agree. They do that with EVERYTHING. But that shouldn't be your only reason for writing this off. Note that I'm not saying you should like it because I say so. No, like what you want. However, it's not as "stupid" or "out of character "as you'd think. And yes, purists, I do watch Classic Who. I quite like it, in fact. Tennant's my favorite, but all of them (except Jodie) are held in high regard by me.
3. Can we go back to this level of writing? Please? This isn't just a Chibnall problem, this started in Series 7, some would argue Series 6. I love Smith and Capaldi's Doctors, and there are aspects of Series 7 through 10 that are amazing, but the magic, the character work, the gadget tinkering, the heart that Classic Who and the Davies era had... just peter out after the Ponds leave (that episode sucked anyway, though). I wanted to like both Clara and Bill, but Clara got old by Series 9, and Bill couldn't stop reminding you that she was gay. Like what you like, but you don't have to push it (like making her tell the First Doctor off when he mentions being "seasoned with the fairer sex" or whatever garbage they made my boy say. What did they do to my boy!?). Eccleston, Tennant, Piper, Agyeman, Barrowman, Tate, Cribbins, Clarke, Simm, and so many others brought Doctor Who to life. Smith, Darvill, and Gillan kept it going, and Capaldi and Gomez kept it alive. Now, I only really like Sacha Dawan's (I may have spelled that wrong, forgive me) Master. The show has lost its magic. We need writers, actors, and showrunners who understand the root of the show again.
I always wondered like if your a time lord and are married to another would it matter what gender you would be and if there even was marriage on his planet
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Very well said Sir. My thoughts exactly about s11 and 12: where is the heart? There was a hint of character development with Graham in s11 but Chibnall watered him down so much in s12 that it came to nothing. I felt so sorry for Bradley Walsh and the Doctor’ss ‘socially awkward’ line was unforgivable.
I also am a fan of their romance. Don't really know anyone who isn't as I think it works well for all the reasons you said. I'd also argue the issue with the writing started in season 5. Even the weaker episodes of the 2005-2009 era are stronger than a lot of the considered "better" episodes since 2010. The writing, acting, and story telling was just so strong throughout.
I have to say, I always thought it made no sense for Pete to come back and save Rose, but Harry's Haunted House (Harry's Moving Castle) had a good explanation. He said that there was likely an argument on the other side about whether to leave Rose with the Doctor and go back for her. Jackie won the argument and Pete managed to save Rose just in time and with a second to spare before the void would've grabbed him too (he was able to resist the pull of the void, because of his stance and footing whereas Rose had absolutely nothing to hold her back from the void).
Doomsday is one of my favourite episodes of the revived series. Indeed, the ending of "Doomsday" was truly sad and one of the saddest Doctor Who moments when The Doctor says goodbye to Rose. The Doctor crying in the TARDIS was so heartbreaking and good acting by David Tennant. Billie Piper was crying for real when the goodbye scene was filmed. A real shame Billie Piper had to go at the end of Series 2.
I love the little exchange between Jackie and Pete. where she tries to act like she doesn't care that he's rich and he made it and the doctor's little smile at that moment and how it starts as them trying to skate around the elephant in the room but in the end that doesn't matter and they just run towards each other like in a cheesy romcom. its so saccharin but i love it.
5:01 the doctor doesn’t accidentally pull jackie out, that was intentional maybe both to protect rose and because he knows/trusts rose is skilled enough to investigate on her own. that way he has one up on torchwood.
Regarding the Doctor pulling Jackie out of the TARDIS, I think he intentionally took Jackie, so that Rose could snoop around. Gotta love the cliffhanger at the end of Army of Ghosts. Just when you think it can't get any worse, the Daleks appear. Jackie's role in this episode is great. Wonder what happened to the Tyler's flat after they ended up in the parallel world.
Torchwood would officially declare Rose, Jackie and Mickey dead. The landlord (going by how much money they seem to have probably rented) would be notified and he'd rent it out. Torchwood would likely confiscate their personal belongings for study (for example a shirt Rose had worn on a trip that contained trace amounts of extraterrestrial substances.)
I remember being devastated when I saw this growing up..
I still cry everytime I watch it
I have suffered a neurotic breakdown and stopped growing.....tbh.
My Dad had warned my sister and I that Billie Piper was leaving around about the time the Ood double parter was airing so I used to reenact different ways I thought she would die in my back garden because I was a psychopath 😂
The Doctor checks it's Jackie before pulling her out. It was no accident, he did it on purpose so that after he gets taken away and all the attention is on them, Rose is free to explore.
Also, not only should Pete and Rose both have been sucked in in the time he was standing there for, I also find myself asking - "How did he know to teleport in in the first place anyway?"
He didn't know, jackie made him go back for her and somehow he came through at the exact right spot
Also when. He'd have no indication so itd be funny if she got sucked into "hell", it sealed up, and then Pete showed up lol
I actually cried at the end of Doomsday. I think the love between Rose and the Doctor was just so strong that I couldn't bare it.
The Greatest Showdown in 40 years in the making
Excuse me! What are you doing outside of my Cult. Come back or you will Exterminated!!!
Am I the only one who’s realised that Dalek Jast stands for:
Jacquline
Andrea
Suzette
Tyler
TheRedstoneBuilder ohhhhh shit lol woah
I like how this episode of Dr who was had a fair few call-backs like how the cybermen cut through the plastic sheets referencing the cyber tombs, the partly converted agents that had earpods like in age of steel etc. as well as a level of mystery that you could try to solve and the twist does not come out of left field as when I first looked at the void ship I thought that looks like a Dalek ball ball and the ghosts march and move very robotically. The clues where there from the start so when they are revealed you tend to go "ooooooooooh " rather then "that makes no sense".
The line "This is not war, this is pest control" has no right going as hard as it does but holy fuck is it amazing
So true
One thing I’ve never understood is why 10 was heartbroken about rose going to a parallel world when that was the initial plan anyways😂 when the doctor put the 3D glasses on rose he explained the plan and what it meant for rose and if you watch the scene he doesn’t seem to be bothered that much by it. Then when rose zaps herself back to the doctor he shouts at her for doing so but when she goes back to the parallel world he’s heartbroken for almost his entire era he never really got over it.
Also another thing in doomsday when the doctor has the 3D glasses he said that anything that’s been to a parallel universe or travelled in time will get sucked in the void, how come The tardis didn’t considering it is a time machine and it literally went through the void to the parallel universe a few episodes before? Might be a stupid question but I’ve always wondered
Sorry for responding after 3 years; I've just seen your 2 comments. Well, a good one with Tardis, I haven't thought about it before. When it comes to the Doctor/Rose separation, I was also initially puzzled by it and angry with the Doctor for telling Rose to go to the parallel universe as if it was nothing but then upon a rewatch, I noticed that when the Doctor went for the thing to hold his weight, he took two of them, even though it was previously stated that one of them could hold many kilograms or pounds (I don't remember how many but a lot) and he defititely didn't need two. He took one of them for Rose. I think he knew he had to do the right thing and let Rose go,but deep down he hoped she wouldn't accept it and prepared himself for this situation. He acted it cold, so Rose would want to save herself and go with her family, seeing how he "doesn't care". I would say he did the same in the Metacrisis Doctor parallel universe scene when he pretended he didn't care and ran away, even though we saw his joy when they were running towards each other and then we could see his reaction when Rose kissed the Metacrisis Doctor. I think he acted cool in both situations, so she would go and be safe and to protect himself from feeling heart-broken.
I absolutely adore this two-parter, and even after 10+ years "Doomsday" still makes me sob more than any other episode of television since. Really enjoyed this review! Also appreciate that you take time to look at things objectively re: your reviews in general, and don't really seem to automatically jump to the negative side. Your channel is very refreshing for that reason, and I'm looking forward to your series 3 reviews! =)
I only just realised Yvonne is val from Friday night dinner
holy shit she is
Bloody Val!
I was watching this video the whole time thinking "I recognise her" I'm glad you said this!
Not that anyone will care about this comment, but I actually had Murray Gold's "Doomsday" played at my father's funeral, as one of the three songs we were allowed to choose. My step mom had never heard it before, and told me later it was "perfect."
Rewatched Doomsday just tonight (and Army of Ghosts last week), so this was well timed!
Brilliant story. It does feel a bit mid-series two-parter in scale, but Rose's separation and departure really raises the stakes. All the cast are on top-form, and I love that we get to explore the parallel world idea more, since there's so many directions you can take it. Pete and Jackie's "reunion" is a particularly satisfying clashing of worlds. I only wish Background Radiation was explained in an earlier story. Maybe the Doctor doesn't use his Regeneration Energy to recharge the TARDIS in Rise of the Cyberman, but uses Background Radiation instead? Just comes out of nowhere otherwise.
"i'm... the doctor."
"i ShOuLd SaY hOoRaY" *clap clap clap*
idk why i love this so much
Since the TenRose relationship is a romance for the ages, the separation is equally (and properly) epic!
One major plot flaw I noticed on my most recent viewing, as much as I love this episode: Why isn't the Tardis affected by the portal suck, even tho it's been through the void? Could Rose and Co. have just hidden themselves inside and been fine?
Probably got stuck in a door frame, or to the ceiling
@@jessicaable5095 lmao that makes it sound like Rose coulda just stood in another room, imagine
I cry without fail every time I watch this ending. Such a good finale.
I actually love doomsday (but that’s probably because rose is my favourite companion) it was absolutely heartbreaking 😔💔
Thank god I'm not the only one that likes rose haha.
Hazz22 don’t worry I love her!🥰😂
I don't
Exterminate, EXTERMINATE!!!!!!! You’re a dalek, of course you’re not going to like Rose!
I adore Rose, as well! 💜 But tbh, even if I dislike a character, I wouldn’t rant about it on the internet. That mentality has never made sense to me. Just like what you do like and focus on that! Positivity rocks.
I love the Cult of Skaro, especially Dalek Caan. Dalek Sec was great too but his shift from Dalek to Human was as much based around his biological change as any real character growth. Dalek Caan was still a full Dalek at the end of his life but since he witnessed the horrors of the Time War after his Emergency Temporal Shift at the end of Evolution of the Daleks (thanks to the context of Day of the Doctor, the Moment must have let him through the Time Lock), he had a change of heart that was purely based around his own view of the universe, rather than having it altered by becoming more Human. They do this again with Rusty during the Peter Capaldi era but not only did Caan do it first, but Capaldi seemed to forget all about his encounters with redeemable Daleks. Considering Clara WAS a Dalek in one of her echo lives, I understand why she slapped him because he seemed to forget about Oswin's sacrifice - Clara hinted in her final episode, although she framed it as a joke, that constantly being forgotten by the Doctor hurt more than she let on - but now I'm getting close to having one of my "Capaldi's Doctor was a sociopathic shitbag" rants.
This has to be one of the most quotable ep.
"I did my duty for queen and country" "daleks have no concept of elegance" ... etc. Also the song doomsday is a dagger to the heart
it may not be the saddest to some but it was the saddest to me. She didn't get to hear him say it back until years later. Thinking that would be the last she saw of him and never getting to hear him say the words. ugh.
Is there something more adorable in the universe than David Tennant saying "WHAT?!"
WOT?!
oh man does this story get me. i know lots of people hate the romance, but the end is acted SO well, my heart always breaks for them. it makes me cry every time i watch it
8:15 - Me when my dad buys a new doorbell with a camera
i remember being soooo utterly shattered when ten and rose parted but funnily enough i never quite caught on to the romance aspect while watching the show i just thought rose was very fascinated with how cool the doctor is and how special she herself feels to be going along on these adventures with him so imagine my shock and quadrupled sadness when i realized they like each other loool when i watch back all the hints are pretty obvious and i can see why some people might not like the romance but i definitely do if not for anything else but the nostalgia lol
God I remember watching this episode for the first time. I kept wondering when she was going to “die” but then the story distracted me and I forgot about it until it almost happened.
Jackie is absolutely fantastic in this. Such beautiful scenes. I love the acoustic rendition of the Father’s Day theme while The Doctor is talking with Rose and Jackie about the ghosts x
- Such a bombastic Finale that was always such a joy to watch. Also, LOVE Yvonne xx
One of the few bad things about this episode is that it's the reason why Cyberwoman exists...
To quote Stubagful's Snuggly Chibnall Time:
Stubagful - "The building was on fire, he was trying to get her out in a hurry and yet he had time to bring the entire Cyber Conversion unit."
Jon - "I imagine him running back in with a sack and going, I need to pick up a Cyberman Helmet and this chest plate..."
Yeah...we don't talk about that.
@@jackofalltrades8412 and yet it's one of the 3 things that immediately think of whenever anyone mentions Chris Chibnall.
Am I the only one that likes the episode?
@@xenon8117 well it is so bad it's funny.
"This isn't war... it's pest control!"
That may be my all-time favourite quote from Doctor Who
"There is one thing Cybermen are better at then Daleks."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."
@@WraithReaper09 ahh I had forgotten that one! Cheers for the laugh.
The ending was beautiful ....the doctor gave her himself....or his meta-self. The doctor gave her himself and a tardis seed....he gave her more time to travel the universe with him :)
Great video! I remember loving this episode when I first watched it and growing to hate it, but I've recently rewatched it and it's actually really good!
Clara Jacintho 2 minutes since video release. Comment posted a day ago, you truly are a time traveler
I've always loved this ep, but I've actually gone through that exact process you mentioned with several other episodes over time! "Tooth and Claw" is one I can name off the top of my head, but there are others. I feel like time and changing as a person really affects my view of a lot of these episodes and allows me to look at them more objectively.
"I did my duty, for Queen and country!"
'Despite what tumblr would probably tell you, the main heart of this story . . . is Jackie Tyler'
I genuinely don't know what this is supposed to mean.
it's a jab against TenRose shippers
@@tatltails3923 Beacuse he hates Rose.
The hook of Daleks vs Cybermen would have been good if the Cybermen weren't obviously completely and utterly outclassed. They didn't get a single Dalek kill if I remember correctly, so the Cybermen may as well have just been humans.
I can understand this seeming underwhelming, but even as someone who prefers the Cybermen to the Daleks in concept, it seems completely natural and "correct" to me that the Daleks should completely destroy the Cybermen in a fight. Especially these Cybus Industries Cybermen who really aren't all that advanced beyond the robot suits and stuff, they don't hold a candle to the Daleks. You say they may as well have been humans but... well they sort of ARE when you really look at it.
If they really wanted to have a Cybermen vs Daleks showdown where the Cybermen stood more of a chance they'd have to use something like the Nightmare in Silver Cybermen I suppose, although those ones lost a lot of what makes the Cybermen interesting to me personally
@@michaelmartin6985 I 100% agree with the idea that the Daleks *should* have won completely, especially considering they were fresh Time War Daleks. My issue wasn't with that specifically, it's with the commentary in this video where he said something along the lines of the battle being epic in scale and nature, or words to that effect. I disagreed with that notion because the fight was just so laughably one-sided.
@@chtholly8084 Ah yes I see what you mean, and I agree. The verbal jabs ARE about the only few jabs the Cybermen really got it before getting brushed aside heh. Makes me even sadder that these episodes started the troublesome trend of them almost always being sidelined for bigger threats
Yes-we all love Rose (as does the Doctor), and her leaving is beyond heartbreaking....
and you can't ignore that Ghostbusters Reference
It's too early to be crying 😭
though maybe in nostalgic. Ut this episode will never age, and I think you can always pick apart things in doctor who episodes. And I think having it as a 3 parter would've been brilliant. Allowing the cyberman to shine a little more
People despise this ending? Woah when I started watching Doctor Who (well into the Smith's era) this was held in such an high regard, at least between the people I'd read
You know, the scene of them banging on the wall and that AMAZING Doomsday score, it was one of the things I knew would be really big and hit really hard (and honestly it did)
And yeah the I'm burning up a sun just to say good bye/Rose Tyler I- thing as well (also the memes about it were kinda funny imo)
The only episode of Doctor Who I’ve ever cried at
ANOTHER EPIC FINALE! Damn this two-parter's great! Rewatched it recently and it still epic to see Daleks, Cybermen, parallel universes and the departure of Rose all cramped in an almost 2-hour extravaganza! "Army Of Ghosts" is one of my favourite episodes in the show and is basically perfect to me, but the cliffhanger! THE CLIFFHANGER! My favourite cliffhanger EVER! I still get chills every time the Cybermen says "The sphere is not ours" and then BAM, DALEKS! What really sells it is Rose's reaction, her complete horror, really sells how AWESOME the Daleks are in RTD stories. Though "Doomsday" got some problems, like the Cybermen being overshadowed and the end scene with Rose being a bit drawn out, its still a great finale, and an emotional farewell to Rose...for now. But how the heck did Pete save Rose??? Like, he just happened to appear at the last minute and transport two people with one device??? Well, if that didn't happen, might have been a bit too dark. Anyways, enjoy watching these reviews. Takes us back to the golden age of DW.
I find the cyber men scarier than the daleks because the cyber men capture you and force you into a metal suit and strips away your personality whilst the daleks just kill you and that’s it.
Also the person who looks like Martha/is acted by the same person who acted as Martha are cousins in doctor who
The greatest part was the Cyberman-Dalek sass off. It was brilliant.
My Mum was away on a cruise the weekend Doomsday aired and my little seven year old brain couldn't comprehend how she would cope missing it. She was very good at hiding the fact that she didn't really care and only watched the show because it became compulsory family viewing on a Saturday evening 😂
I loved Martha in this story.
The only thing that really bugs me about this one is Pete's waaaaay too convenient timing and, what, wearing antivoid magnetic boots?? A better way to do it would have been to have it be a major coincidence, that Pete came back for Rose at Jackie's insistence, and Rose immediately slamming into his chest. He would grab her out of pure startled reflex, and she would have smacked the button with her arse, sending them both back to Pete's world. Not an inspired alternative, but it would have played better.
I do dearly love that you declared this to be Jackie's episode. I would have forgiven much more just for the scene of her and Pete running to each other after that awkward but loving conversation.
Honestly Jackie deserves a lot more appreciation.
The saddest moment EVER in Doctor Who is when 10 regenerates.❤️❤️David you are and ALWAYS will be the best doctor ever.
I disagree
i actually assumed the doctor pulled jackie out of the tardis on purpose so rose could stay behind unnoticed and investigate
Companion : I'm going travel with the doctor forever
Me : oh well, I wonder who the next companion will be?
In some ways "the Parting of the Ways" is more touching, especially for those of us who could see Nine falling in love with Rose!
y'know, I think the only reason I didn't like army of ghosts/doomsday for a while was because of how people overplayed the romantic bits of it which irks me, but nowadays I can tune that stuff out and focus on what I do like... like the bitchfight of canary wharf. also gonna say this the scientist in the voidship room is kinda hot ngl
The scientist getting S U C C ed by the cult of skaro shit me up as a kid, so cool
Rose is as responsible for the reinvigorated Who as much as the Doctor
Rose was pretty awful ngl
In my opinion The Parting of the Ways is the saddest because of Ecclestons regeneration
WE STAN JACKIE TYLER IN THIS HOUSE
maybe it's not being a brit, and having no idea who Catherine Tate was at the time. But these stingers never work for me. Didn't care who she was, still processing what had just happened. I felt the same with Matt Smith at the end of Ten's run, him being quirky and cute right after"I don't want to go" kinda pissed me off. I get what they are doing, I truly do, it just doesn't work for me. Moments after "I will always remember when the Doctor was me" I really did not give a damn if Capaldi could fly the ship.
I suppose I want a little longer than ten seconds to grieve, rather than have the blow soften by the next thing we're meant to love.
Bro that exist of rose made me cry. No bs it killed me. This tough guy fighter... tears from TV show
While not the show itself the most saddest gutwrenching finale of Doctor Who would be "Lucie Miller/To The Death" from Eight Doctor's Big Finish Adventures and nothing will ever top that for me.
Love this video, but have to disagree on a small point. I think the Doctor didn't grab Jackie by accident. He didn't plan to introduce his companion at all, and when forced to, he choose to leave Rose in the TARDIS. The look he shares with Rose while being escorted away communicates loads.
I agree, above all, that this could have done well as a 3-parter with the opening of the Genesis Ark as the cliffhanger of episode 2; in fact, episode 2 could have been titled "The Genesis Ark" (very Doctor Who, don't you think?) There *was* so much action that it's hard to keep up.
The best recommendation one can give for this 2-parter finale is that whatever its faults, it never ceases to make me emotional no matter how many times I view it. And not just the ending. I absolutely love lighter moments like the Doctor getting sassy with the Cult of Skaro ("The Doctor will open the Genesis Ark!" ~laughs~ "The Doctor will not!" Davies did this kind of humor-in-the-middle-of-crisis well, as revisited when Ten confronted Davros in Journey's End ("Oh, I have the word: You're the Dalek's PET!") The scene of Mickey returning to Rose make me smile, Jackie and Pete's reunion makes my heart swell right along with Rose's, and the scene at Bad Wolf Bay makes me snot-cry as much as Rose. Fabulous stuff.
All episodes have holes and this one being so huge did have some huge holes, but it still ranks among the best of RTD's era.
I cried when everyone left (except for Martha). Martha left alive and wasn't as heart wrenching. I still cried a lot during "Doomsday." I cried a lot during "Face the Raven." I cried a lot during "Journey's End." And I cried a lot during "World Enough and Time."
Why did they choose to have the same actress who played 'Martha' in the episode shortly before Martha was a thing I'm so confused
Russel T. Davies cast her because of this episode, and they try to explain it in Smith and Jones that it’s Martha’s cousin but that’s Doctor Who for you
@@dreamleak1543 oh really?! That's amazing thank you for telling me. It just seemed a bit odd😂😂
Tahlia Green25 Doctor Who has a really bad habit of recycling actors lol. I know that just off the top of my head, both Karen Gillan and Peter Capaldi appeared in The Fires of Pompeii before being casted as their respective characters. Then you have Freema appearing here in The Army if Ghosts. But there’s many more who were recycled in the classic series that I just can’t pinpoint to describe.
@@hannahmerlino2462 YES I noticed that. I think that seemed less weird though because their main features were later on down the timeline- 'Marthas' one seemed way too soon😂😂😂
@@hannahmerlino2462 Probably the biggest was Colin Baker as a time lord named Maxil before he played the 6th doctor. Donna's grandfather Wilfred Mott's actor Bernard Cribbins played in the second doctor who movie (from 1966). Original companion Barbara played by Jacqueline Hill appeared in a story with Tom Baker (Meglos). Finally, Bernard Hosrfall played several roles including one of the time lords who exiled the second doctor and Chancellor Goth.
One brilliant quote
“So you’re sending the Daleks and Cybermen to Hell?” *turns to friend* “Told you he was good!”
I always assumed the doctor pulled Jackie out deliberately so Rose could explore later on.
@dr103 More amazing things happen in the show than this so it's not hard for me to believe he knew.
Rose was a better companion for Nine.
Imo the most underrated part of Doomsday is the Dalek and Cybermen banter. The cocky daleks make it so fun to watch
I know it's not the point of this video but I found it really interesting that you said he pulled jackie out of the tardis by accident - i'd always thought he did it on purpose so that rose could investigate, I've never considered that he just messed up! I like your take more honestly because it gives rose her agency where she chose to sneak around on her own, and wasn't just following orders
No, I'm fairly sure he pulled Jackie out intentionally in order to try and protect Rose
Our Premier League win has no asterisks thank you very much, other than that huge insult nice vid haha
This was a perfect exit for rose and it was a great epic story however I felt the ending of her exit was kind of ruined when they brought her back in series 4 cause it felt not only self loathing but also it overshadowed Donna's final story abit the whole series 4 should had only been bout her and the final still would had worked. I like rose but I felt her original goodbye was a better one than the second one i felt it was just too melodramatic.
4:48 I always thought the doctor pulled Jackie intentionally, to allow rose to use the psychic paper to snoop around.
That ending...iconic.
I think the new series has the reverse problem when it comes to companion departures. They are all far too overdramatic. I think Martha and Mickey actually have the best departures from the Tardis.
Hmm. Yeah, I can see why you think that.
You can’t deny Donna’s exit was amazing though. Tragic and brutal.
Yeah, there's strength in the simplicity and minimalism of a lot of the classic series companion departures, like Susan in The Dalek Invasion of Earth, or Victoria in Fury from the Deep
@@MrGreaves Yeah it is, I just find that when all the departures are trying to be like that, it dilutes them.
Overloard 7 yeah, I’m with you there
The idea of the daleks vs the Cybermen start back in 1968 in the original script of the wheel in space lost missing story in pat trougton's second season I think
And it also started the trope of Cybermen being overshadowed by an "even greater threat" in every future finale in which they appear.
the king of WhoTube never leave us
III Nino's "How Can I Live?" would make a good tribute song for this 2 parter.
also, did anyone else notice the scene with the Cybermen cutting through the plastic is a clever reference to Tomb of the Cybermen?
STOP PRESS -
Cyberman and Dalek both in Season 1's "Dalek"
Best season finale, in my opinion