Mauser 1912/14: Flapper-Delayed Blowback
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
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Starting in 1909, Mauser had a plan to introduce a family of automatic pistols, with a picket gun in 6.35mm (.25 ACP) and a military/police service pistol in 9mm Parabellum that shared the same basic look. The initial 1909 prototype in 9mm was simple blowback, and proved to be a failure. The next attempt was a simple blowback 6.35mm, which was quite successful, and was marketed as the Mauser 1910, as well as the 1914 in .32 ACP (7.65mm). With that selling well, the company went back to its 9mm gun, and began experimenting with locking systems. After failing to get a vertically tipping locking block to work, they came to a flapper-delayed blowback system that was expensive, but worked well. That was the Model 1912, in 9x19mm.
Between 1912 and 1914 about 200 examples of this gun were made, with production standardizing by about serial number 50. Later examples were made for a military market, with 500-meter tangent sights and detachable holster stocks. Any hopes of challenging the Luger in Germany military service were dashed by the death of Paul Mauser in May 1914, coupled with the outbreak of war in August. The project fizzled to an end, and was never restarted after the war - although elements would go with Josef Nickl to Czechoslovakia and eventually show up in the CZ Model 27...
For more information on this and other Mauser handgun developments, I recommend "Mauser Pistolen" by Schmidt, Speed, and Weaver:
amzn.to/31rr3KJ
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Of course fireplace guy has the pistol nobody has ever heard of that are both fabulously rare and fabulously valuable.
and four more of them for good measure
I guess it's safe to say fireplace guy has all the cool pistols you need to have.
You prolly dont care at all but does anyone know of a trick to log back into an instagram account..?
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@Cassius Jamir Instablaster :)
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Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Fireplace guy strikes again with a large number of very rare pistols...
That's Gun Jesus to you mister :)
@@WasatchSasquatchUtah Gun Jesus is the presenter but Fireplace Guy owns the pistols. : D. And bless him for giving Gun Jesus (and us) access to them.
Hehe, fireplace guy and Gun Jesus. Someone auta make a Fallout NV companion out of Ians dialogue
@@lukavmineav3489 no fireplace guy is the anonymous person who owns seemingly a very large number of incredibly rare pistols that periodically show up on this channel
Let’s fire that fireplace up!
Flapper delayed... I'm just imagining that every time you fire, it plays a few bars of the Charleston really loud instead of going "bang".
And Phrynie Fischer winks at you.
Flapper-delayed... when it's the 1920s and your stylish girlfriend is taking her sweet time getting ready again.
you won the comments lmao
The collection in the fireplace house is impressive.
The fireplace person is lege dary. Who ever they are
I would really like to see it all out at once
@@edwalmsley1401
Ian gives us these videos in a dosage that mortal man like us can handle.
When mere humans would dare to open the room(s) where everything is stored, your eyes would melt, your brain would be fried and your heart would explode.
Seriously, think about it.
Rows and rows of prototype after prototype.
Rooms full of one-of-kinds, oddities and "no idea what/when/why/who".
@@Kremit_the_Forg sounds like the best death I could ever imagine............bring it on
His identity is not a secret, Ian did an interview with him some years back.
This is probably the first gun I've seen where removing the mag is not the first step of the disassembly, but rather somewhere in the middle.
...not to mention, inserting, than removing the magazine again!😅
In mag, out mag, in mag ,out mag, disassemble, then smoke cigarette.
@@warrenokuma7264 look over at the gun and ask, "was it as good for you"
It was.
@@warrenokuma7264 giggity
200 pistols were made .... and Ian has 5 of them in front of him 👍
The legendary Fireplace Colection(s?) strikes again!
@@luisnunes2010 beat me to it lol.
Gun Jesus has magical abilities, he can summon whichever gun he wishes to give sermon on.
May he bless us all.
@@darrenbrashaw8409 Absolute legend. Makes all but a handful of museums look amateur!
That’s a flex and a half
These gun's are quite scarce, says Ian, with FIVE of them in front of him XD
He is the gun jesus, If jesus was able to make a fish 2, why couldn't Ian make 1 pistol into many
Ironic that, for contemporary non-Colt pistols, the video length is 1911 ...
I was just gonna mention that too!
Hah. It’s 19:12 now
Since YT usually cut off one second, it whould be 19:12. Much more fitting imo.
Nah, 19:11 for me. Should’ve been 19:10 for historic reasons
Tis the season for Gun Jesus to hearken back to the milestone dates in Gun History
Truly early 20th century mindset of having your pistol iron sights ranged out to 500 meters.
While also being so small that they’re unusable
They were better shots back then.
With a shoulder stock you and your buddies can definitely harass an enemy unit at 500 meters.
@@hailexiao2770 Not me I cant see 500 meters except in a desert.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I was being sarcastic.
Mauser: Make rifle flapper lock
Mauser again: Make a pistol flapper lock
Mauser yet again: Make machinegun flapper lock!
H&K: Make literally everything roller or flapper delayed for the next 60 years
When you flap your wings you fly high.
@Vanya Secundus It makes tons of sense from a manufacturing standpoint. If you have a high enough precision and metallurgy standard, you can drastically reduce the number of parts over a comparable locked-breech gun. This means you can, for the same number of man hours, either produce a larger number of guns, or produce the same number of guns to a significantly higher standard of precision. You do end up with a comparably heavier bolt, but the increase in perceived recoil is largely exaggerated and generally an artifact of the use of worn-out mainsprings in Century Arms examples.
It’s impressive that those guns are over 100 years old but even inside the one that was taken apart they look like brand new.
Oiled well & stored out of harm’s way, I guess
When the camera zooms in for close ups you can see the fine workmanship and details in these beautiful hand made guns.
Fireplace guy has an awesome collection.
Fireplace Guy (aka Ian's Dad) has an incredible collection! And some serious security to go with that collection. I can imagine its setup much like a firearms museum. Just...impressive.
I have often thought the very same thing, if it's not that then it's his uncle or possibly even grandfather.
Not gonna lie, they look like they'd fit in a dieselpunk alt history setting.
It kinda looks like a precursor to the 12.7mm pistol from Fallout IMHO.
You don't know that they aren't there too
Or in Warhammer 40k as a Stub-gun
@@elroma7712 It looks a little too clean for a 40K weapon. No seals, etchings, markings etc :D
I can see what you mean though, an officer's pistol rather than a grunts as they start at .50 cal and get bigger!
@@MrGrimsmith Not to mention it's not nearly bulky/heavy looking enough haha.
At first glance it looks like something Steyr would make.
Kinda does
Yeah
🤔 Yeah I can see that.
You can tell it's a really rare gun when Fireplace Guy only has five of them.
Anytime I see an old antique firearm first search I do is here to see if Ian has documented it. Love the way you thoroughly research and then give an in depth and highly informative review. I've probably learned more from you than any other channel on YT. As always looking forward to the next video
"On the offchance that you are one these persons interested in esoteric stock handguns..."
Everyone here is! Everyone!
Why else would we be here.
@@KTo288 ikr, is like this whole channel is made specifically for that demographic lol
Many of us BECAUSE of this channel. I knew of very few of these rare pistols before becoming a FW fan. Now I do own the one I COULD get...a Chilean contract Steyr 1912..and find them all fascinating! I think there is one of the Swedish versions of the Browning 1905 (?) for sale locally... must investigate that. I load for 9mm Steyr..so 9mm Browning Long shouldn't be TOO much of a problem lol
Over one hundred years old, yet they still look beautiful and relevant...
My thought exactly, so....shiny :)
But is he going to shoot one of them?! I'm thinking they'd be pretty nice.
At the start of the video I was wondering what was in front, under the barrel - then has any modern design tried it?
The magic fireplace continues to deliver :)
As Peter mentioned, Ian has 5 of 200 and rarer yet, all 5 different calibers manufactured. Good show, Ian.
Nice to hear Ian mentioning Henk Visser who was a dutch collector,he had a large collection of weapons and armory(worth about 200milj.$)
Any idea where that collection is now?
@@remcodenouden5019 A part of it is in the army museum in Delft and in the Hermitage,Amsterdam.Especialy the ivory stocked pistols are gorgeous and very rare.
They look so beautifully clean and simple, yet modern.
I have lived a long, mostly successful, life. But I will die happy if Ian reveals the identity of "Fireplace Guy."
Thanks for the video, Ian!!
Ironically, his name is Guy Fireplace.
@@bentilbury2002 Naturally he's French, so it's actually Guy Cheminée.
In German: "Do you know what a Pistol is?" "No." "Good. You are our lead engineer. Please assemble a random group monkeys for a design project."
"Also...be sure it is the most convoluted, over engineered, and expensive, design concept possible.
@@roonbare2769 Actually the concept and design are really simple. The problem is the tight tolerance of the design making manufacturing really expensive.
I gotchu, fam: "Wissen Sie, was eine Pistole ist?" "Nein." "Gut, Sie sind jetzt unser Hauptingenieur. Stellen Sie bitte eine zufällige Gruppe Affen für ein Entwurfsprojekt zusammen."
Well, it DID work out for MG-42... even if the design needed 3 more years to iron out with other professionals invloved.
Later: "OK, boss, my troop of monkeys came up with a great concept. Now I need ALL the monkeys to grind the ends of the flappers until the pistols work."
Fireplace (guy?) strikes again, 5/200 guns made, nice!
The machining in that guns is gorgeous.
you know its going to be a good video when Ian brings out the combination holster/stock!
17:35 I was totally expecting to hear 'War were declared'
Ah yes, the fireplace. I know this place well
When you mentioned the summer of 1914, I was really hoping for a "war were declared!" 🤣
Pistols with wooden holster/stocks are my jam.
Love the look of these pistols, especially the stocked one
Beautiful firearms and beautiful design! Thanks
What an awesome design. Looks steampunk. It has some surprisingly modern design cues to it.
Yes, I agree. I immediately thought "surely some prop master at Star Wars is watching this video and salivating right now."
Fireplace guy strikes again. God damn dude. What a collection.
Those are REALLY cool pistols. Wish they were not so rare!!
Excellent machine work and finishing on those pistols. The looks just say quality manufacturing.
Beautiful guns. Old world craftsmanship you never see today.
This looks like normal wear would become a big problem when the flaps and the block looses the sharp edges, gradually making the gun cycle in too high pressure... still a cool precursor to the roller delay mechanism though
You are very privileged to be able to do what you are doing with these.
Everytime I hear Ian sharing his knowledge on the gun in question, I am reminded to my time at university:
It is just marvellous to hear someone lecturing, who knows his stuff!
This is a really neat pistol. I want one. Too bad they only made 200, the system looks like it would work quite well. I always enjoy unusual methods of delay/locking.
@@thecommissaruk well they had to stop development because of WW1. I'm not saying it is the best system, i just think it is workable and could have been further refined if WW1 didn't stop development.
Hahahaha that tangent sight, someone was VERY optimistic
Even the early Hi Power had sights like this. I'll never understand why.
Happy Easter 🐣 to all of you!
And to you too.
The fireplace aesthetic works very well with these pistols. Only thing its missing a bears head above the fireplace and a bottle of scotch.
They are just gorgeous!
Thank you , Ian .
"There are only two hundred of these, and the stocked version is made of unobtainium. I happen to sit here in front of 5 of them. Two stocked. With one version of each interesting iteration in the development."
I don't know who the guy with the fire place is... but he must both like Ian very very much AND have the coolest gun collection on the face of the earth! Both of which are sentiments I can 100% get behind! :P
I've gotta leave for work.
Forgotten Weapons Video drops.
I guess I'll just make up the time by staying at work late today.
Priorities 👍
Watch the video as you're drinking coffee at work?
I just held off watching until I got in the door.
@@ScottKenny1978 doing that right now at work.
WC time?
One look at these pistols and I can fully appreciate what Ian said about Mauser “trying” to do something here. Fascinating pistols though to say the least.
I so wanna see some slo-mo shooting of this!
You and me both!
*0:15* these are quite scarce, only 200 made in total *acquires 5 of them*
Plus 3 more in .45ACP, which I filmed a separate video on. ;)
I had no idea that these existed! Well done!
That's the perfect sight picture in my opinion.
I too, always shoot my pistol half a kilometer from my target, and I always hit the area code I am aiming for!
this honestly looks like something out of Blade Runner. cool.
What a great looking design. I really like the aesthetic
I can see why the fireplace guy has remained anonymous, that collection must be insanely valuable. I wonder if we could ever get a tour as we did with that dutch collection because I'd love to see what other cool guns he has.
Damn...... Those are beautiful examples brother.
It's interesting, the striker looks a lot like the striker in the baby browning. Cool video!
It never ceases to impress me how well-made many firearms were from the late 19th and early 20th century, especially those for the civilian market.
These ones look amazing, I'm very intrigued about the system (flapper delayed and stricker fire). I can see myself carrying one of these as expensive as they might be.
I actually want to know the numbers involved in this collection.....it must be huge,must make for an awesome display
Looks like a quality piece
Hmmm, I guess you could call this the grandpa of the roller-delayed system.
Also, Ian transitions from steam punk pistols to diesel punk ones.
Holy crap, I have one of these. I inherited it from my Great Grandmother, had no idea it was so rare. Also you can release the slide with out a magazine by quickly pulling the slide back and releasing it, this also works if there is already a loaded mag in it and it's still locked back. Won't lie, it feels awesome doing it that way too. Prob not the best for it tho
The slide hitting on the flapper looks like it make the gun have a limited life with all that banging.
I bought the .25 acp version. thought I broke it when I couldn't get the slide to go forward and then the "slide lock" got stuck in the down position. luckily the seller is an old hand and showed me how to operate it before I bought it. he got a good chuckle when I freaked out about it though.
Fireplace guy has the best private collection!
Roller-locking was derived from flapper-locking. So flapper-delay is sort of the precursor of roller-delay. I always love me some delayed blowback!
These are really rare... And heres a whole pile of 'em, with accessories!
Where does he get those wonderful toys?
That specific method of delaying blowback - relying on friction and offset force rather than mechanical disadvantage moving an otherwise free-moving mass - has me curious what the actual service life of those flaps would be. I suspect they’d round off quite quickly, and their ability to delay would become worse.
Peak pressure in the chamber, and hence on the working surfaces is of very short duration. During that time, the locking flaps are probably acting only as struts in compression, with very little relative movement between their faces and the block that works against them. As the pressure drops, the flappers/block structure collapses, and the faces slide over each other, but under constantly decreasing pressure. Providing the components are properly hardened and polished, and treated to the occasional spot of Waffenfett, it would probably last OK.
Fascinating Mechanics
the quality of the machining on these is just beautiful, can't really see any milling marks left by cutters, everything smooth and quite perfect... only something slightly resembling sandbelt finish near the tangent sights on one of them, the rest seem immaculate
I loved my 1910 Mauser. It was a very accurate little pistol. I made a lot of money with that little pistol. I also sold it for $300 more then I paid for it. I also had a extra magazine.
That flapper system is actually very simple and would be easy to produce with modern cnc systems. Someone should make reproductions of these!
Yes, but that button on the trigger guard is scary and would have to be changed. Shooting this with some popular grip techniques would result in potential disaster.
I bet this system is also tricky to maintain. I believe that the contact angle between the flap tips and the locking wedge-block is precisely determined by the coefficient of friction between them. If that surface gets dirty, the coefficient of friction changes. I expect this mechanism is fairly sensitive to cleanliness.
@@claudiodiaz9752 Even as a "never ever shot at pistol" guy it struck me as a potentional "disengage all locking" disaster with modern grip technique. I could however see it redesigned as a "modernized" grip safety
@@aaronclair4489 that's a petty sealed system. Easy to maintain so long as you're not literally dragging it through the mud. Also, the flappers don't rely on friction (the Blish Principle has been pretty much disproven) but on mechanical disadvantage. The flappers basically act as a pendulum and it takes a lot of force to push them apart, whether cycling the gun manually (hence the disconnecter) or during a course of fire.
The design itself could easily be improved upon with access to advanced CAD software and high end 3D printers that extrude metal. It's actually impressive how old school gun designers were able to come up with sophisticated devices while using relatively primitive tools. Imagine what John M. Browning could have achieved if he had access to modern manufacturing technology.
These are pretty cool. I didn't even know that they existed. I wish Fireplace Guy a long and happy life, but I think that all of us are going to know when he dies because the market for ultra-rare early semiautos will immediately become flooded (as much as that market CAN get flooded).
These are lovely pistols!!! I deeply enjoy how 'mechanical' they are. A shame they didn't use rollar-delay/locking, but the flapper is sufficiently interesting in itself. The look of the thing reminds me quite a lot of Deckard's pistol, although that of course was a mash-up of a Bulldog and a Mannlicher in real life.
In a way Mauser was quite lucky to expire when he did. He enjoyed the old world right up to almost its very end but missed the indescribable horror of the next four years.
Ein Volk, eine Nation dies ist unsere Kommentarsektion!
They have an astonishing grey color.
that is a really cool mechanism
I don't think any other man has the ability to summon 5 of 200 produced firearms that were made over 100 years ago
That was an amazing gun video with a lot of history gun development and an interesting story
I have always wanted all the Mauser 1910 style pistols. I had a 1910 I would have loved to get a 1914 and a 1934. I was working at a Gunshop in Colorado and there were a lot of old fírearms there. We had one come in and I liked it so they bought it and they knew I was going to buy it. I think that the shop bought it for $100.00 in 1998. Not today that would just be wrong. They sold it to me for $110.00 that se day. I was really big in the fírearms sales community or other gunshops that were friends. We were all basically connected in some way. Because I loved old fírearms other shops would buy a old fírearm and of they couldn't sell it in a year or so they would ask is if we were interested in it. Most the time we would buy it from them and try to be as fair as possible with them. Of we beat them up on a gun then they won't work with us next time. Our shop had about 2,000 fírearms in it at all times. About 300 of them were antique firearms or unique fírearms. It was a good draw for some people who love old fírearms like I do. Especially pocket pistols from 1860 to 1940 when the craze was over. We still had junk like jennings and davis. I never owned one of those but I probably should have just to round out the collection I wanted to make a shadow box frame for my pocket pistols but I have like 30 of them. That shadow box would get kind of heavy and I would really have to anchor that sucker with lags to hold it up. Anyway I will have to do a series 9n my pocket pistols taking them to the range after I explain how they work and a brief history. I think I would like to have your help on that but I know you don't read these messages anyway. But I would love to be able to pick your brain and learn something. I'm 51 years old and you make me feel like a infant when it comes to fírearms information and I was the go-to guy at the shop when it came to odd or unique fírearms. Even the owner came to me a few times for information. That's before the internet was the center of our lives. That's why I have so many books on fírearms. Before 2000 that's how we learned about firearms and those books are noy cheap either. My boss would order what ever book I wanted plus he had a really nice collection of old fírearms books starting in 1890 or so. It was always changing. Hell I got one of Jeff Coopers books Live right and shoot straight or something like that from when he was in the shop and signed a few for us. He signed mine thanks for the great conversation your shooting friend and his name. He wanted to go with me when I got lunch. I think he just wanted to get out of the shop because it was so busy. We were having out annual founders week sale where everything was at cost and we had reps from all the companies but not competitors at the same time like a Glock rep one day and a smith rep the next along with a leopold rep and a Redfield rep. You understand what im talking about. It was nice too because the General manager would always end up working for one of the companies. I was supposed to be the GM but my mom had a stroke and I had to quit my job to take care of my mom because my dad couldn't really do it. He was too old but he had a great paying job as a military contractor building test equipment for the Abrams tank and the current attack hilocopter. They both used the same machine to make things easier. They also made maintenance equipment for other vehicles also. They were the size of a small shipping container for the big ones to ones the size of a 3 drawer tool box for some other kind of equipment. I'm sorry my posts go all over the place. I love to talk especially when I'm on my pain meds. Happy Safe Shooting 🇺🇸💪.
I like that auto drop slide.
In the early 60s, a Mauser 1914, maybe 34 was used as the basis for a firearm carried by agents of a (not so) secret police organization, and were convertible to carbine by with the addition of a skeletonized metal stock, a longer barrel and pistol scope, these were quickly replaced with larger p38s with the same attachments, I've wondered why the Mauser was initially chosen and now wonder if someone in the prop making department had somewhere seen one of these beauties
This gun looks both Steampunkish and Cyberpunkish at the same time. I love it
I can see where Mallorian Arms got inspiration for Johnny’s pistol; but, as someone said above, it should play a few bars of the Charleston when the slide locks open.
I'm imagining in some alternative WW1 universe where this was adopted by the Germans that some Sergeant is telling a brand new 2nd Lieutenant that if they hold down the button on the trigger guard it will double the rate of fire.
Those built in stocks for pistols have always tickled my fancy. I'm imagining one is for my old Detective Special.
“Very rare, less than 200 made” ...has 2.5% of production on the table....flex
Thank you again
I've always had a love affair with handguns with attachable stocks.
The aesthetics are just amazing.
Especially with more modern-style versions like the M93R: masterpiece.
I want an Inglis Chinese contract Hi-Power with stock so bad....
nice collection
I find it strange that there are no small firearms manufacturers willing to reproduce *_rare_* historical models of firearms. Obviously they would carry a _HEFTY_ price tag, given the limited demand. But surely the demand is greater than zero! This pistol, for example, is really cool. And doubtless there would be customer-base willing to pay extra for such a novel gun.
Such a beautiful and interesting action wish the flapper locking system had cought on more imagine using one of these pistol alongside a m1916 selbstalader
I like how people literally will argue with Mauser, the company that made the firearms
Could you arrange an '"Ask Fireplace Guy" interview with community-sourced questions, to whatever extent he is willing to divulge? Wouldn't have to be on camera or microphone, you could just relay his answers yourself in a format that'd look a lot like your usual Q&A videos.
Can the pistol be fired when the flapper delay release lever is pulled down while the trigger is pulled?
I think it'd break the gun.
I thought the same, could lead to accidents and dangerous malfunctions
I'm not seeing any kind of interlock that would prevent that so, yeah, you could probably do it. You'd essentially be operating it as a blowback-only system, with inadequate mass. Best case, you have extraction under very high pressure. Worst case, you have a case rupture and possibly even a projectile stuck in the barrel. It would be a very bad day. But afterwards, maybe you get a cool eyepatch and do a Paul Mauser cosplay!