I always believed it was Sonny Forelli who tried to kill Tommy, especially considering the setup at the beginning of the game. When Tommy talks to Sonny on the phone, you can see Sonny with the money and drugs on the table, which made me think he was behind the ambush
In the mission "Rub out" seconds before Diaz is killed by Tommy and Lance, Lance said "this is for my brother". This is another reason to think Diaz ordered the attack at the docks
And Diaz never once said “I never killed your brother” Come on do we actually believe that Kent Paul wouldn’t know that it was actually Sonny who did it…
Guys .. thinking about it... If Diaz was behind the attack... Why does he still trust Lance? I mean... If he was behind, he should've gotten rid of both of them after the ambush But this also puts another question... If it was Sonny, then why did Lance join his gang on the last mission or why did Sonny trust him.. even if he kept it as a secret
Yes, he is, because he's speaking to him directly. His relationship with Cortez is probably valuable to him in some way or another, so he wants to stay on good terms with him. But while he's speaking with Tommy, the colonel can't hear him, so then we can see his true intentions towards Colonel. The exact line that the video refers to is: "Tommy, it's Ricardo Diaz. I want to thank you for looking out for me my man. I ask that *prick Cortez*, he say you the real deal, my friend, why you not come see me." Hope I made it clear : D
Just realized a big inconsistency between vice city and vice city stories. Lance and diaz knew eachother during vice city stories, and quite well at that. But during vice city when tommy first starts working with diaz it turns out lance is also there, but under the cover name Quinten. Which makes no sense as that implies diaz doesn't know who lance is.
His most trusted soldiers. I don't really think he cared about Harry and Lee because when Tommy told him that Harry and Lee were dead. The first thing he Said was Tell me you still got the money🤣
It was definitely Diaz, he had probably heard about a deal going on and hired Mr Black to send out a hit team to kill them. Cause we saw in his cutscenes he refuses to let anyone skim off his profits even if it’s only 1% and hates competition so killing a future rival at the deal before they actually become a threat was a good move to him.
Simple, it was either; 1: Diaz found out that this deal was taking olace and decided to help himself to the money and coke. 2: Sonny used Diaz to set up the ambush so it couldn't be linked to him, then had the coke and cash sent back to him. Hence why he's got all the cash & coke on the table after Tommy calls him.
WAKE UP !!!! ..it was DIAZ if you played the GAME after killing LEO you get a phone call and the unknown caller mentioned DIAZ on that phone call and he also said diaz merchandise so IT WAS DIAZ not SONNY WAKE UP !!!
@@cathallynch1 but how did the money and drugs ended up all the way in New York right after Tommy escaped the ambush? If you want to use the "6 hours passed after saving the game feature" logic, it still wouldn't make sense since it'll take more time than that to transport, especially drugs, in the 80's. Theory number 1 is probably the only acceptable one for now since it made more sense. Imo
Yes, definitely option 1. There is no evidence that Sonny and Diaz worked together or even knew each other. Two cutthroats that care about nobody but themselves also don’t make for very likely business partners. Why would they trust each other?
Considering how Sonny felt that Tommy was a threat to his own family since it would mean that Tommy would have ranked higher than Sonny in the latter's own family, I feel that Sonny sent Tommy to Vice City because he knew the deal would get ambushed as a means to have Tommy killed by Diaz's goons, and as soon as Sonny found out that Tommy, in fact, survived the ambush and had to move on to plan B by getting Tommy to murder Diaz and take over his mansion. Then after Tommy purchased every empire, Sonny would have Tommy pay for his execution as soon as the latter pays the former's "cut" to him and take over all of Tommy's empires. In other words, the Uriah Gambit, since Sonny was implied to be envious of Tommy's ranking during the time and wanted to get rid of him so he doesn't outshine Sonny in his own family.
*Fun facts about Vice City : It seems that the Forellis are the 3D era Gambinos ,so Sonny is the 3Ds Gotti , although I can't be 100% sure that the Gambinos were the 1st Italian - US crime organization in Miami ,* *Tommy's based on : Tony Montana and Joseph Ianuzzi Jr. however there's also a possibility that Jon Roberts (born John Riccobono) that supposedly was a Gambino soldier , was also taken as an inspiration to the creation of Tommy, while the original Vercetti's appearance was reminiscent of Ray Liotta , the Definitive Edition bears more similarity to Vincent Gigante who was the boss of the Genovese crime family on the other hand* *Upon further investigating the Gambinos and Florida , I found out another pallarel 'tween Tommy and Joseph Armone this time, as Gotti have sent 'em in '86 to Florida in order to supervise the Gambinos interests in there* *Adding to the fact of Ianuzzi Jr. working for Gambinos Thomas Agro to whom Ianuzzi was owning money to , was Gambinos consigliere and worked under the aforementioned Joseph Armone!* *I've something more , something that I ain't seen coming , well there was another guy related to the Gambinos making moves in Miami, before '70s and his name was Thomas Altamura , and that's not all , it turns out that beside being a Mobster he owned a food place that was called ... Sonny's Restaurant , ....and he had close ties with Santo Trafficante , coincidence? , his mugshot looks suspiciously familiar ain't it ??* *Also there's a possibility that Tommy and Sonny are a call back to the Two Crime families originally featured in The original Grand Theft Auto and that is the "Vercotti Crime Family" along with the "Sonetti Crime Family"*
0:05 - 0:06 is the part where the person that ordered the henchmen to ruined the deal and the clips actually the most perfect answer to the question of this video despite the person who did the voice over said *"Who Ordered This Attack?"* . What a perfect timing at 0:05 - 0:06 because that Ricardo Diaz's scene perfectly synced with the person who asked the *"Who Ordered This Attack?"* question
10:36 - Yeah I think you are right. Maybe it was the Cubans, who acted as buyers for Diaz's merchandise. I think so because later on in the story, Tommy receives a phone call from Cuban head, Umberto Robina, who at first thinks that it is Leo Teal on the call. Also, although i started to believe in the Sonny theory, I always thought that if Sonny was actually involved in all this, then why would he shout at Tommy with those expressions on the phone call in An Old Friend mission. His expressions wouldn't have been so detailed, if he was faking them when he said, "You better be kidding me Tommy. Tell me you still got the money", "That was my money Tommy, MY MONEY", and "You better not be screwing me Tommy, because you know I am not a man to be screwed with". I have a curiosity as well. Cubans were established on the Vice City Mainland. How did they manage to come to the Vice Beach Island in the mission Guardian Angels, when all the bridges were closed due to a hurricane? Thinking that they came from airways is impractical and illogical, as they brought in a Cuban Hermes with them. For context, Cuban Hermes is only seen in Little Havana, and on Havana-Haiti borders. Moreover, Cubans operated on ground and water level only. So, there is no chance that they used airways. Also, correct me if I am wrong but the boats and ships don't work in Vice City waters until you complete Phnom Penh' 86 mission, and the bridges get officially open. This makes sense, because there is a hurricane going on in the city, so why would anyone risk their life by being in waters at that time. So, there is no way they came from waterways. So, how did they come to this island along with their Cuban Hermes?
Idk how many times I've addressed this but here goes . Diaz ordered the hit on the deal at the request of Sonny this explains the drugs and money being on Sonny's desk . If not it was Sonny himself who sent the hitmen .
Sonny knew an awful lot about what was going on in Vice City, that tells Me he was doing business down there before Tommy arrived his cousin was on trial so why wouldnt he use him to set up the deal ?
What we know for certain is that Lance was in cahoots with Sonny at some point. It’s very possible Lance was informing him from the beginning. Lance even says “I’ll be watching you Tommy.”
I've been playing Vice City for 20 years and when I looked into in detail I realised the plot doesn't make any sense if we believe the story as it was told. I don't know if Rockstar wanted to make it that hard and made Tommy a little naive, or if they really didn't put that attention in the storytelling. I still don't know who busted the deal...
It's definitely Sonny, not Diaz. The Mafia is structured to keep the boss's hands as clean as possible. He would not kill Tommy in Liberty City. That would immediately point the finger at him. Sonny could use any made man to expand. This was supposed to be a three for one deal that failed. Sell his product twice, expand and get rid of a rival.
I dont think so, remember Sonny Forelli is sent 2 mobs with 2 briefcase full money following you (Tommy Vercetti) ? and who died going together are Harry and Lee and it goes together Vic Vance. it's obvious it was Ricardo Diaz , for setting up ambush deal, how did Diaz know from ambush deal ? it's very simple from Lance Vance. because Lance can betrayal your brother Vic vance.
I recently went back through the ps2 of vice city. I know 100% that it was Lance who did it. I even know how he did it. Lance basically told Diaz about it as you know he works for Diaz as you can even see in Vice city and Vice city stories he calls Lance by the name Quentin. It's also shown many times that Lance wanted to be at the top and not work for anyone. Once Diaz was gone and out of the picture. Just remember how Lance starts to act. It's other signs that he wasn't out for revenge. He knew that if his brother was out of he picture he could get what he wanted. Just question on how did Lance figure out your location in some missions. Like he boat mission where you have to race to get a package. How did Lance know what you were doing as Diaz only told you about the mission which was to take the fastest boat to get he package first. Notice how Diaz didn't say you was going to have Quentin help you but he was already in the boat waiting and then at the end of that mission Lance just drives off with that boat lol. Even the guns Lance brings aren't his guys. He says he was saying them for a rainy day but he had the fire power to kill Diaz a long while ago if that were the case. My Theory is that Lance knew what was going down. He used Diaz as a scapegoat so no one would suspect him. As you can notice that Diaz doesn't trust anyone. He also gets made very fast. So i don't see him having the brains to use a assassin or hitman to kill someone he could have his own men do for free. Lance makes the most sense because he would be willing to get his brother killed, he is also willing to take anything to get him rich faster. Also what i think is that it is one major mission is when Lance is taken to a junkyard and is being killed. If you noticed that Lance look more like he was being interragted. If they wanted to kill Lance they would've just shot him dead. So why do any of that? It's because Lance was the one who took the drugs and set everything up just to get Tommy to do all of his dirty work then betray Tommy and take everything Tommy had built up without doing much of anything.
That’s a really good theory, But what about Tommy at the deal if Lance was planning on having his brother murdered and you said that Lance wanted To use Tommy and then steal everything but what about Tommy in that situation was he just in the wrong place at the wrong time? How did Lance know about Tommy being there did Diaz tell ‘’Quentin’’ that Tommy was gonna be there? I got so many questions lol
Have you ever played gta vcs. The events of vcs says otherwise. Lance couldnt have betrayed his brother considering their family relationship. Near the end of vcs vic becomes more of a mind washed goon in the hand of Lance. He sees all the events he did earlier in gta vcs as a disgrace, all because of Lance interaction with him later. In the beginning vic just wanted to help his brother who has athma,but after Lance came it all turned to us(the whole family).Lance didnt really care about money more than his brother, as one of the gta vcs mission shows Lance throwing away all the drugs they made just because of vic telling him to not get high
You my be onto something. It seems that Lance is a mildly talented person who seems himself as a Don but hasn't got what it takes, so he ends up selling out each business partner to the bigger dog in the hopes of being the big dog himself some day.
I can see that considering Vic wanted nothing to with drugs but in the 2 years between the 2 games Lance more than likely used Louise’s death on Vic as a guilt trip to get him to go against his morals and by Vice City wanted to take his own brother out bc even though Vic probably embraced the lifestyle knew that it was wrong and probably told Lance that after that it was done. So I can see Lance’s ambition purposely getting Vic killed, as for Tommy just in the wrong place at the wrong time and decided to use him to make the take over and killing of Diaz even easier than it would’ve been had Tommy been killed
There was supossed to be missions dealings with the people that attack the drug buy with Tommy , Harry and Lee but it got refuce to just Tommy killing Leo
It was Forelli. I think the plan was to have Tommy take out the competition and take over the entire town for the Forellis. If it was Diaz he would have killed Lance and Tommy too, instead of working with them. He could have done it by placing a time bomb in the helicopter they used in the air attack against the rival gang. That way it would have looked like Lance and Tommy were shot down during the battle. Lance would join Forelli, even if he killed his brother because he doesn't care about his brothers like Vic does.
Sometimes I think that were Sonny and Lance whoes set up the attack on the deal and Diaz was just the "scapegoat" of them. And yes I say that Lance was involved too because think about it, Lance was very jelaous of Vince on VCS since he was always was the shadow, the second on command or the minion of his brother, so killing him or even damage him if the attack failed it will no get any suspicion towards Lance. And the reason of my theory is how Lance and Sonny got together very well and fast after Lance betrayed Tommy and also I found it quite curious that Lance didn't accompany Vince to the deal and he stayed on the helicopter and also he just escaped instead of get out and save his brother when the hitmen started to attack them (not counting also the fact that he let Vince to go alone without any henchmen with him).
Not to mention even though Vic told Diaz they were even at the end if VCS after he helped eliminate the Menendez Bros I believe the Vance Bros still technically owed Diaz money. So in Diaz's coke fueled paranoia he could have forgotten they're even and wanted amends for the money owed.
That literally makes no sense. There’s no way that sonny would know that a rich man like Diaz who has control of vice city is the one that stole the money and drugs so saying that he expected to set Tommy up and take over vice city is really far-fetched and doesn’t make sense.
I think Ricardo Diaz and Sonny Forelli were in cahoots, up to a point anyway. Sonny is angry at Tommy for the deal being botched as a way to keep Tommy in line and enact Plan B. Since Tommy lived, Sonny figures he can still use Tommy to help Ken keep Giorgio out of prison and also weaken potential competitors in Vice City. Sonny knows how cunning and competent Tommy is and probably assumed Tommy would eventually find out about Diaz and one would destroy the other.
If you play through the game and pay attention to the story, you know it’s Diaz that paid those mercenaries to stop the deal in the beginning in the game because if Tommy actually got set up, it would mean competition.
I believe Sonny planned and wanted Tommy to be executed, as we see in the film Goodfellas, (great film by Ray Liotta BTW), which is one of the inspirations of the game, that after the main character comes out of Jail, he will never be as valuable to the Mafia.
all the money and the goods on the Sonny's table really makes sense as you said its such a solid reason. I like it. And also i was gonna say that you didnt even mention Gonzalez until the end of the video who was Colonel's man snitched for Diaz. Mr. Black's first phone mission explains everything but the game is deficient about not telling Colonel was the arranger for this deal clearly.(to explain Gonzalez' story) It would have been much easier to follow the story of the game ngl
Diaz and the vance brothers were on good terms. Diaz must have known that one of the parties involved in the deal were them. It wouldn't make sense for diaz to allow lance walk around freely in his mansion, after the fact. Also Sonny is a scumbag. He tried to kill tommy once already. Tommy was his close friend at some point and sonny betrayed him. He would not care about harry and lee.
i always thought it was diaz. my first gta game was vice city stories and i know that the vance bros got to worked with diaz, but at that time the kingpins were the Mendez bros. remember that in vcs, u helped diaz to take down the mendez bros so that he can be the kingpin of vice city. but ironically, it was you, the player, specifically vic vance who established the biggest gang in vice via that game mechanic where u need to take over territories. basically, u were expected to take over every gang in the city, so when u become the kingpin of vice, running drug labs and any other schemes, surely diaz wont be that much happy 😂 tho the vance brothers were known to lay low after that final mission in vcs, but after 2 years, it was the time diaz got to order a hit when he learned that the vance brothers where to go back into dealing and with a huge mafia family from liberty. maybe hitting 2 birds in one stone, but that moment really did marked his chance, because in vice city, he is the biggest kingpin now, not until tommy whacked him
Man, Rockstar really missed the chance to deliver vice & liberty city stories to current systems, I super would've bought those two under appreciated GTA's
By the way if you have the original copy of vc doesn’t matter what version 1.0-3.0v under menu-display- select “trails” to Off. and the game will get rid of the hazy pink look in the game and be much cleaner and clearer.
It was all Diaz. Sonny setting up the deal to be a trap, while using HIS OWN MONEY, just doesn’t make sense. Gonzalez informing Diaz about the deal also doesn’t make sense if Diaz and Sonny are working together. Sonny’s anger on the phone calls and body language in the cutscene is too convincing for it to all be an act. The stuff on Sonny’s table just isn’t enough evidence of the theory. I always just took that as a symbol of the mob’s recent involvement in the trade in general.
Sonny only care about himself he has no loyalty. I don't put it past him to set Tommy up while sacrificing his 2 best men & while losing money. I definitely got Sonny doing some dumb ass shit like that. You underestimate how much of a narcissistic backstabber he is
Guys .. thinking about it... If Diaz was behind the attack... Why does he still trust Lance? I mean... If he was behind, he should've gotten rid of both of them after the ambush But this also puts another question... If it was Sonny, then why did Lance join his gang on the last mission or why did Sonny trust him.. even if he kept it as a secret Even more of Lance was sometimes staying over at Diaz's mansion.. isn't it a little doubtful? Like he set up goons to ice his brother and would let him in his house and give him errands?
*Lance's behaviour was suspicious from the beginning of the game "I'll be watching you Tommy" to the end " I'm sorry Tommy, this is Vice City, this is business"* *, which leads me to think that he was a spineless scum ready to even sacrifice his own Brother*
@@domasavpedzivin the quote where he said that he will be watching him would most likely mean that Lance will be keeping an eye on him as a back up and ally to help out that doesn’t automatically mean that he’d planned on betraying him from the beginning.
I still think it was Sonnie, he saw Tommy as a threat and a liability, so he just uses him to get into the drug trade. Sonnie must of instructed the hit men to not kill Tommy so he can start building his drug empire for him. So that way when Tommy takes over VC, Sonnie can kill him and claim everything for himself.
This whole "Sending Tommy away without revealing to him he's not part of the family no more" is not true. Sonny intended to use Tommy as the Forellis' man and muscle in Vice City, a proxy which would fulfill the Forellis' desire for expansion in the drug market. Tommy killing Sonny is when he fully separated himsefl from the family, similar to how Vito Scaletta killed Don Carlo Falcone. Diaz ambushed the deal. Mr. Black was the middle man who hired hitmen. Others knew of it because word got around due to Leo's bragging about his new-found wealth. Lance likely still had some pepole who worked with him from his and Vic's gang who may have discovered Diaz' plan. While this would be incredibly sloppy and foolish of Lance to slip up about the deal to Diaz, I don't think it's what happened as Lance and Vic returned to Vice after a long while away. Besides, Lance appears to have stopped using cocaine and Vic seemed to want Lance to stay away from Diaz as Diaz easily manipulated him.
Did Tommy had a phone before he picked up Leo's phone? Because as we know, Sonny is calling you, and if it's Leos phone that Tommy is using, were did he get the number from
Sonny DEFINITELY wanted Tommy dead since the 70s. He tried then, but failed, and instead settled for locking him up for an indefinite period of time (presumably for life in his eyes), which catches him by surprise in May 1986 when he heard about his release ("Huh, $#!+! Didn't think they'd ever let him out" 'he kept his head down, helps people forget' "People will remember soon enough, as soon as they see him walking down the streets of their neighborhoods, it will be bad for business".). He then brings up southern expansion and gets the idea to send him there for the summer, intending to kill him and take control by August. What he DIDN'T realize was that Ricardo Diaz was the kingpin of Vice City thanks to a pair of brothers solidifying it 2 years before, and catching Cortez' "right-hand gimp", Gonzalez in the act and made him squeal on anything that would be detrimental to his empire. Cortez was naive in trusting Gonzalez ever since catching him steal "product" from him a couple times before. As it was from him that Gonzalez relayed to Diaz the info about Forelli was trying to break into Vice City, thus, he hired hitmen from Mr. Black (one of which was Leo Teal, the same guy Tommy kills later) and tried to rub out the competition by killing them all on the spot and take the money and drugs for himself. However, Tommy barely outruns the bullets and one of the brothers was still in the chopper at full takeoff mode who flies away. Those 2 start sniffing around for leads on who was responsible, at the same time, Sonny starts concocting his plan to kill Tommy to get him out of the way once and for all. Also at the same time, Diaz becomes suspicious of Lance, who's undercover as "Quentin", and by the time the bridges open, the jig is up and they know he did it. But Vance's emotions got the better of him and tries to kill Diaz in revenge-filled grief, only to almost get killed himself, forcing Tommy to abandon his own plans of catching Diaz with the stolen money and merchandise. This also marked the beginning of a relationship on the rocks between the 2 "avengers", so to speak. And the rest is history
My opinion: it was Sonny, but made Lance believe it was Diaz. There are tons of evidence, such as sending Lance to follow Tommy closely and keep reporting back to Sonny. If it would have been Diaz, he would never let Tommy close to him, especially not let him work for him.
It was Sonny. Here’s my theory: he already tried to kill Tommy in Hardwood but failed so he set up Tommy in Vice City as a pawn to start the business. He didn’t tell the other associates at the bistro that he was going to actually kill him instead. My evidence is that the shooters were Mr Black’s men. Sonny called Mr black because he is a 3rd party and the forelis won’t know except Sonny. He then transported the money in a private jet which explains how the money got back to Sonny so fast, during transport, Ken calls Sonny about the sour deal. At this point Ken will obviously say Tommy is still alive, which puts a dent in Sonny’s plan. Sonny now has to treat Tommy as a part of the family again to disguise himself. At the end of the game, Sonny tells the mob he’s gonna kill Tommy. The time between Sonny sending out the order to kill Tommy’s business owners and Sonny actually arriving was extremely short which is how I know he used the same jet to go to Vice. He also needed a private plane to transport guns. Why it couldn’t be Diaz: we already know that Lance has a bad coke problem since vcs. He trusted a fed, then fucked up deals with the Mendez brothers etc. anything he says is not actually trustworthy. Hell, Lance starts accusing YOU of his own faults. Cortez also speaks in gossip, never fact. Cortez always speaks in maybe, never certain. Cortez can’t be trusted neither. Diaz doesn’t actually have a reason to sabotage a deal from the Vance brothers because they are previous partners and the forelis just aren’t known in Vice at the time. People think Diaz is unpredictable, stupid and impulsive. But in both vcs and vc, he has been nothing but smart and fair. He’s just really, really high all the time.
It's clear that Sonny was a bastard but he wasn't idiot about the business. Tommy could be more useful with 20 kilograms of coke that without it. 20 k that could had been more money and power.
@@patrikzotaj4528 no he was suposed to die in the exchange i think but things didnt go as expected so after that he went to solve the problem and the oportunity he created Tony is important so its not only more $ its also improved ranks
You all are wrong Diaz Is Not Person Behind The That deal it was Lance vance Stabber. Lance was sunny friend and they both are behind this sunny says Lance to stay with Tommy and diaz for while takeout all information about businesses and that's how that happen Lance Know About Diaz Sunny Knows about Tommy. If you noticed mission where lance and Tommy goes to kill diaz diaz says Tommy i want to make big player and have to part of our business and this lance not like lance wants part of diaz but diaz wants to give to Tommy vercetti.
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Leo and chefs stolen the money and coke and Gonzalez told on the Vance brothers to Diaz
I AM worrying, Tommy. That's my style because I seem to have this problem in my life with unreliable people. Don't be an unreliable person, Tommy, please.
That not true, actually Diaz wished to kill Vic Vance from (VCS) if something not trust him (did nothing hapens). but Diaz's ambushers did ultimately killed Vic vance and Harry and Lee it was planned by Lance Vance but dont forget Harry and Lee was carrying 2 briefcase full of money. which means there no way to Sonny Forelli to betrayal to Tommy Vercetii once again and in 1971 after arrested by cops and Cops was interrogated to Tommy Vercetti he didn't cough a single word he went silent which means Tommy is loyal to Forelli.
If he’s not a psychopath, then why did he choose to ignore Lances personal feelings that he wasn’t treating him fair and yell at him to do dirty work like a lapdog? And wasn’t it was quite extreme that he killed Sonny Forelli only because he called the cops on him and didn’t give him a chance to explain himself that he didn’t set him up? Why did he abandon Ken Rosenberg instead of having any sincere consideration to help him? come on from these three points It’s obvious that he is.
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@@InsurgentHarbinger fool he did tell him to take days off also he told Lance if he screwed up let him know and he told Lance he would not backstab him which Lance did in return but Lance is a lying sociopath selfish capitalist narcissist opportunist it's displayed in Vice City stories he did the same gaslighting shit with Vic Tommy is not a psychopath if he was he was not be pissed at the forellis beating up the old and wouldn't criticize the woman at the Cherry Popper who hate kids which he thought is fucked up
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@@InsurgentHarbinger plus Tommy did more for the best than Lance has and Lance did was be lazy like he was in Vice City stories
If Sonny had played any part in the ambush at the beginning of the game I highly doubt Lance would’ve know about it. He wouldn’t want to work with someone who killed his brother even if it involved taking over someone else’s empire. Lance would want to avenge Vic straight away, just look at how impatient he got with Tommy and attack Diaz on his own completely ruining Tommy’s careful planning
I always believed it was Sonny Forelli who tried to kill Tommy, especially considering the setup at the beginning of the game. When Tommy talks to Sonny on the phone, you can see Sonny with the money and drugs on the table, which made me think he was behind the ambush
Exactly
Yeah but I have a hard time believing that you got all that back to Liberty City in just a couple hours
This has to be true story behind it when they wrote
@@troymartin4260 this cutscene happens after you save the game, which skips like 6 hours ahead
It's impossible to get that in 6 hours @@ker1SHxD
In the mission "Rub out" seconds before Diaz is killed by Tommy and Lance, Lance said "this is for my brother". This is another reason to think Diaz ordered the attack at the docks
Yeah I always thought that to with Lance be kidnapped of Diaz Crew and when he says he killed my brother what you expect me to do mow his lawns
And Diaz never once said “I never killed your brother” Come on do we actually believe that Kent Paul wouldn’t know that it was actually Sonny who did it…
Guys .. thinking about it... If Diaz was behind the attack... Why does he still trust Lance? I mean... If he was behind, he should've gotten rid of both of them after the ambush
But this also puts another question... If it was Sonny, then why did Lance join his gang on the last mission or why did Sonny trust him.. even if he kept it as a secret
He thought it was Díaz they both did
@@darkprince2998Sonny didn't trust him he was probably gonna kill him afterwards
12:43 but Diaz is friendly with Cortez in the party, even warning him about the "barbarians at the gate"
Yes, he is, because he's speaking to him directly. His relationship with Cortez is probably valuable to him in some way or another, so he wants to stay on good terms with him. But while he's speaking with Tommy, the colonel can't hear him, so then we can see his true intentions towards Colonel. The exact line that the video refers to is: "Tommy, it's Ricardo Diaz. I want to thank you for looking out for me my man. I ask that *prick Cortez*, he say you the real deal, my friend, why you not come see me."
Hope I made it clear : D
Keep your friends close...
Vice City just makes me want to go watch Miami Vice or Scarface, Gotta love 80s miami
Gta 6 will never had the same vibe
@@Paulinho_66no shit, 6 is set in the modern day
RIP HARRY AND LEE
Harry and Lee are dead!
@@benpaye9364 that was MY money, Tommy!
@@unde4dmemesauce you better not be screwing with me Tommy cos you know I’m not a man to be screwed with!
May god bless their sole
Just realized a big inconsistency between vice city and vice city stories. Lance and diaz knew eachother during vice city stories, and quite well at that. But during vice city when tommy first starts working with diaz it turns out lance is also there, but under the cover name Quinten. Which makes no sense as that implies diaz doesn't know who lance is.
It's possible that Diaz was simply sniffing Vance out all along.
He also called himself like that in VCS.
@@petelike2024 the whole game? I haven't been able to get my hands on VCS so far
Diaz also calls Lance “Quentin” in VCS
I also think that. And also why would diaz want Tommy and lance to work for him? He knows that they are out to find who busted the deal.
His most trusted soldiers. I don't really think he cared about Harry and Lee because when Tommy told him that Harry and Lee were dead. The first thing he Said was Tell me you still got the money🤣
First time I played vc once I heard that I knew tommy is going to kill him.
It was definitely Diaz, he had probably heard about a deal going on and hired Mr Black to send out a hit team to kill them. Cause we saw in his cutscenes he refuses to let anyone skim off his profits even if it’s only 1% and hates competition so killing a future rival at the deal before they actually become a threat was a good move to him.
Simple, it was either;
1: Diaz found out that this deal was taking olace and decided to help himself to the money and coke.
2: Sonny used Diaz to set up the ambush so it couldn't be linked to him, then had the coke and cash sent back to him. Hence why he's got all the cash & coke on the table after Tommy calls him.
WAKE UP !!!! ..it was DIAZ if you played the GAME after killing LEO you get a phone call and the unknown caller mentioned DIAZ on that phone call and he also said diaz merchandise so IT WAS DIAZ not SONNY WAKE UP !!!
@@TheAlone-xc6dg alright, chill out. It's only a game.
With 2, don't we see the money on the table before we get the call saying a buyer has been found for Diaz's merchandise?
@@cathallynch1 but how did the money and drugs ended up all the way in New York right after Tommy escaped the ambush? If you want to use the "6 hours passed after saving the game feature" logic, it still wouldn't make sense since it'll take more time than that to transport, especially drugs, in the 80's. Theory number 1 is probably the only acceptable one for now since it made more sense. Imo
Yes, definitely option 1. There is no evidence that Sonny and Diaz worked together or even knew each other. Two cutthroats that care about nobody but themselves also don’t make for very likely business partners. Why would they trust each other?
Considering how Sonny felt that Tommy was a threat to his own family since it would mean that Tommy would have ranked higher than Sonny in the latter's own family, I feel that Sonny sent Tommy to Vice City because he knew the deal would get ambushed as a means to have Tommy killed by Diaz's goons, and as soon as Sonny found out that Tommy, in fact, survived the ambush and had to move on to plan B by getting Tommy to murder Diaz and take over his mansion. Then after Tommy purchased every empire, Sonny would have Tommy pay for his execution as soon as the latter pays the former's "cut" to him and take over all of Tommy's empires. In other words, the Uriah Gambit, since Sonny was implied to be envious of Tommy's ranking during the time and wanted to get rid of him so he doesn't outshine Sonny in his own family.
CJ: *What stays in family, STAYS in family*
or himself.
It just doesn’t make sense for Sonny to throw away $20 million of his own money intentionally.
*Fun facts about Vice City : It seems that the Forellis are the 3D era Gambinos ,so Sonny is the 3Ds Gotti , although I can't be 100% sure that the Gambinos were the 1st Italian - US crime organization in Miami ,*
*Tommy's based on : Tony Montana and Joseph Ianuzzi Jr. however there's also a possibility that Jon Roberts (born John Riccobono) that supposedly was a Gambino soldier , was also taken as an inspiration to the creation of Tommy, while the original Vercetti's appearance was reminiscent of Ray Liotta , the Definitive Edition bears more similarity to Vincent Gigante who was the boss of the Genovese crime family on the other hand*
*Upon further investigating the Gambinos and Florida , I found out another pallarel 'tween Tommy and Joseph Armone this time, as Gotti have sent 'em in '86 to Florida in order to supervise the Gambinos interests in there*
*Adding to the fact of Ianuzzi Jr. working for Gambinos Thomas Agro to whom Ianuzzi was owning money to , was Gambinos consigliere and worked under the aforementioned Joseph Armone!*
*I've something more , something that I ain't seen coming , well there was another guy related to the Gambinos making moves in Miami, before '70s and his name was Thomas Altamura , and that's not all , it turns out that beside being a Mobster he owned a food place that was called ... Sonny's Restaurant , ....and he had close ties with Santo Trafficante , coincidence? , his mugshot looks suspiciously familiar ain't it ??*
*Also there's a possibility that Tommy and Sonny are a call back to the Two Crime families originally featured in The original Grand Theft Auto and that is the "Vercotti Crime Family" along with the "Sonetti Crime Family"*
Why u fat writing😮🤡🐷💩
Glad this popped up as a suggestion - this is one of those things I've been deep thinking about since I took a recent dive into VC content.
0:05 - 0:06 is the part where the person that ordered the henchmen to ruined the deal and the clips actually the most perfect answer to the question of this video despite the person who did the voice over said *"Who Ordered This Attack?"* . What a perfect timing at 0:05 - 0:06 because that Ricardo Diaz's scene perfectly synced with the person who asked the *"Who Ordered This Attack?"* question
Diaz never liked the competition of the Vance brothers and it was him
RIP RAY LIOTTA 💔, thanks for making my childhood 😢
10:36 - Yeah I think you are right. Maybe it was the Cubans, who acted as buyers for Diaz's merchandise. I think so because later on in the story, Tommy receives a phone call from Cuban head, Umberto Robina, who at first thinks that it is Leo Teal on the call. Also, although i started to believe in the Sonny theory, I always thought that if Sonny was actually involved in all this, then why would he shout at Tommy with those expressions on the phone call in An Old Friend mission. His expressions wouldn't have been so detailed, if he was faking them when he said, "You better be kidding me Tommy. Tell me you still got the money", "That was my money Tommy, MY MONEY", and "You better not be screwing me Tommy, because you know I am not a man to be screwed with".
I have a curiosity as well. Cubans were established on the Vice City Mainland. How did they manage to come to the Vice Beach Island in the mission Guardian Angels, when all the bridges were closed due to a hurricane? Thinking that they came from airways is impractical and illogical, as they brought in a Cuban Hermes with them. For context, Cuban Hermes is only seen in Little Havana, and on Havana-Haiti borders. Moreover, Cubans operated on ground and water level only. So, there is no chance that they used airways. Also, correct me if I am wrong but the boats and ships don't work in Vice City waters until you complete Phnom Penh' 86 mission, and the bridges get officially open. This makes sense, because there is a hurricane going on in the city, so why would anyone risk their life by being in waters at that time. So, there is no way they came from waterways. So, how did they come to this island along with their Cuban Hermes?
Idk how many times I've addressed this but here goes . Diaz ordered the hit on the deal at the request of Sonny this explains the drugs and money being on Sonny's desk . If not it was Sonny himself who sent the hitmen .
Sonny knew an awful lot about what was going on in Vice City, that tells Me he was doing business down there before Tommy arrived his cousin was on trial so why wouldnt he use him to set up the deal ?
What we know for certain is that Lance was in cahoots with Sonny at some point. It’s very possible Lance was informing him from the beginning. Lance even says “I’ll be watching you Tommy.”
I've been playing Vice City for 20 years and when I looked into in detail I realised the plot doesn't make any sense if we believe the story as it was told. I don't know if Rockstar wanted to make it that hard and made Tommy a little naive, or if they really didn't put that attention in the storytelling. I still don't know who busted the deal...
It's definitely Sonny, not Diaz. The Mafia is structured to keep the boss's hands as clean as possible. He would not kill Tommy in Liberty City. That would immediately point the finger at him. Sonny could use any made man to expand. This was supposed to be a three for one deal that failed. Sell his product twice, expand and get rid of a rival.
I dont think so, remember Sonny Forelli is sent 2 mobs with 2 briefcase full money following you (Tommy Vercetti) ? and who died going together are Harry and Lee and it goes together Vic Vance. it's obvious it was Ricardo Diaz , for setting up ambush deal, how did Diaz know from ambush deal ? it's very simple from Lance Vance. because Lance can betrayal your brother Vic vance.
I recently went back through the ps2 of vice city. I know 100% that it was Lance who did it. I even know how he did it. Lance basically told Diaz about it as you know he works for Diaz as you can even see in Vice city and Vice city stories he calls Lance by the name Quentin. It's also shown many times that Lance wanted to be at the top and not work for anyone. Once Diaz was gone and out of the picture. Just remember how Lance starts to act. It's other signs that he wasn't out for revenge. He knew that if his brother was out of he picture he could get what he wanted. Just question on how did Lance figure out your location in some missions. Like he boat mission where you have to race to get a package. How did Lance know what you were doing as Diaz only told you about the mission which was to take the fastest boat to get he package first. Notice how Diaz didn't say you was going to have Quentin help you but he was already in the boat waiting and then at the end of that mission Lance just drives off with that boat lol. Even the guns Lance brings aren't his guys. He says he was saying them for a rainy day but he had the fire power to kill Diaz a long while ago if that were the case.
My Theory is that Lance knew what was going down. He used Diaz as a scapegoat so no one would suspect him. As you can notice that Diaz doesn't trust anyone. He also gets made very fast. So i don't see him having the brains to use a assassin or hitman to kill someone he could have his own men do for free. Lance makes the most sense because he would be willing to get his brother killed, he is also willing to take anything to get him rich faster. Also what i think is that it is one major mission is when Lance is taken to a junkyard and is being killed. If you noticed that Lance look more like he was being interragted. If they wanted to kill Lance they would've just shot him dead. So why do any of that? It's because Lance was the one who took the drugs and set everything up just to get Tommy to do all of his dirty work then betray Tommy and take everything Tommy had built up without doing much of anything.
That’s a really good theory, But what about Tommy at the deal if Lance was planning on having his brother murdered and you said that Lance wanted To use Tommy and then steal everything but what about Tommy in that situation was he just in the wrong place at the wrong time? How did Lance know about Tommy being there did Diaz tell ‘’Quentin’’ that Tommy was gonna be there? I got so many questions lol
Have you ever played gta vcs. The events of vcs says otherwise. Lance couldnt have betrayed his brother considering their family relationship. Near the end of vcs vic becomes more of a mind washed goon in the hand of Lance. He sees all the events he did earlier in gta vcs as a disgrace, all because of Lance interaction with him later. In the beginning vic just wanted to help his brother who has athma,but after Lance came it all turned to us(the whole family).Lance didnt really care about money more than his brother, as one of the gta vcs mission shows Lance throwing away all the drugs they made just because of vic telling him to not get high
You my be onto something. It seems that Lance is a mildly talented person who seems himself as a Don but hasn't got what it takes, so he ends up selling out each business partner to the bigger dog in the hopes of being the big dog himself some day.
@cathallynch8269 he was the big doge back in vcs, but he sold all his businesses to diaz so he and his brother can get revenge
I can see that considering Vic wanted nothing to with drugs but in the 2 years between the 2 games Lance more than likely used Louise’s death on Vic as a guilt trip to get him to go against his morals and by Vice City wanted to take his own brother out bc even though Vic probably embraced the lifestyle knew that it was wrong and probably told Lance that after that it was done. So I can see Lance’s ambition purposely getting Vic killed, as for Tommy just in the wrong place at the wrong time and decided to use him to make the take over and killing of Diaz even easier than it would’ve been had Tommy been killed
There was supossed to be missions dealings with the people that attack the drug buy with Tommy , Harry and Lee but it got refuce to just Tommy killing Leo
It was Forelli. I think the plan was to have Tommy take out the competition and take over the entire town for the Forellis. If it was Diaz he would have killed Lance and Tommy too, instead of working with them. He could have done it by placing a time bomb in the helicopter they used in the air attack against the rival gang. That way it would have looked like Lance and Tommy were shot down during the battle. Lance would join Forelli, even if he killed his brother because he doesn't care about his brothers like Vic does.
Sometimes I think that were Sonny and Lance whoes set up the attack on the deal and Diaz was just the "scapegoat" of them.
And yes I say that Lance was involved too because think about it, Lance was very jelaous of Vince on VCS since he was always was the shadow, the second on command or the minion of his brother, so killing him or even damage him if the attack failed it will no get any suspicion towards Lance.
And the reason of my theory is how Lance and Sonny got together very well and fast after Lance betrayed Tommy and also I found it quite curious that Lance didn't accompany Vince to the deal and he stayed on the helicopter and also he just escaped instead of get out and save his brother when the hitmen started to attack them (not counting also the fact that he let Vince to go alone without any henchmen with him).
**Vic /Victor , in the /heli'/*
Darn you are right, lol!.
Forgot his name was Victor Vance, stupid memory and combined the names. 😂
Not to mention even though Vic told Diaz they were even at the end if VCS after he helped eliminate the Menendez Bros I believe the Vance Bros still technically owed Diaz money.
So in Diaz's coke fueled paranoia he could have forgotten they're even and wanted amends for the money owed.
0:08 - HOLY CRAP! I DIDN'T NOTICE THAT UNTIL NOW!
In gta vcs at the end of the game, lance stole 20k of drugs from diaz before getting out of town in the helicopter.
When did it say he got them from Diaz? I know he mentioned making moves but I don't recall anything specific about their source.
Yeah, well. We do not know where Lance got these drugs from
@tempestfennac9687 and @SebaCOYG, yeah sorry you are rights.
@@azurekite6547 Fair enough (just figured I'd check in case I'd forgotten something).
Sonny allowed Tommy to be set up and go to prison. And then he wanted Tommy to set up in Vice City, and Sonny would kill Tommy and just take over
That literally makes no sense. There’s no way that sonny would know that a rich man like Diaz who has control of vice city is the one that stole the money and drugs so saying that he expected to set Tommy up and take over vice city is really far-fetched and doesn’t make sense.
I think Ricardo Diaz and Sonny Forelli were in cahoots, up to a point anyway. Sonny is angry at Tommy for the deal being botched as a way to keep Tommy in line and enact Plan B. Since Tommy lived, Sonny figures he can still use Tommy to help Ken keep Giorgio out of prison and also weaken potential competitors in Vice City. Sonny knows how cunning and competent Tommy is and probably assumed Tommy would eventually find out about Diaz and one would destroy the other.
If you play through the game and pay attention to the story, you know it’s Diaz that paid those mercenaries to stop the deal in the beginning in the game because if Tommy actually got set up, it would mean competition.
You got a new subscribeer I would not known have the shit keep it up gang
I believe Sonny planned and wanted Tommy to be executed, as we see in the film Goodfellas, (great film by Ray Liotta BTW), which is one of the inspirations of the game, that after the main character comes out of Jail, he will never be as valuable to the Mafia.
Thanks for always keeping posting Vice City content
all the money and the goods on the Sonny's table really makes sense as you said its such a solid reason. I like it. And also i was gonna say that you didnt even mention Gonzalez until the end of the video who was Colonel's man snitched for Diaz. Mr. Black's first phone mission explains everything but the game is deficient about not telling Colonel was the arranger for this deal clearly.(to explain Gonzalez' story) It would have been much easier to follow the story of the game ngl
“Doug’s Discount Mercenaries Warehouse: Guaranteed success or your next hit is FREE!”
i noticed they were aiming at tommy and his 2 friends
I just found out about this channel. I like it. It is different.
Diaz and the vance brothers were on good terms. Diaz must have known that one of the parties involved in the deal were them. It wouldn't make sense for diaz to allow lance walk around freely in his mansion, after the fact. Also Sonny is a scumbag. He tried to kill tommy once already. Tommy was his close friend at some point and sonny betrayed him. He would not care about harry and lee.
Makes perfect sense!
I can't tell if this is good writing or not by Rockstar to keep us thinking all these years.
Ricardo Diaz Leo Teal and two Cortez goons.
*How do you know that ??*
i always thought it was diaz. my first gta game was vice city stories and i know that the vance bros got to worked with diaz, but at that time the kingpins were the Mendez bros.
remember that in vcs, u helped diaz to take down the mendez bros so that he can be the kingpin of vice city. but ironically, it was you, the player, specifically vic vance who established the biggest gang in vice via that game mechanic where u need to take over territories.
basically, u were expected to take over every gang in the city, so when u become the kingpin of vice, running drug labs and any other schemes, surely diaz wont be that much happy 😂
tho the vance brothers were known to lay low after that final mission in vcs, but after 2 years, it was the time diaz got to order a hit when he learned that the vance brothers where to go back into dealing and with a huge mafia family from liberty. maybe hitting 2 birds in one stone, but that moment really did marked his chance, because in vice city, he is the biggest kingpin now, not until tommy whacked him
Man, Rockstar really missed the chance to deliver vice & liberty city stories to current systems, I super would've bought those two under appreciated GTA's
By the way if you have the original copy of vc doesn’t matter what version 1.0-3.0v under menu-display- select “trails” to Off. and the game will get rid of the hazy pink look in the game and be much cleaner and clearer.
4:44 who is the guy on the meat hook in the freezer?
It was Sonny, Diaz and Mr Black working together
You put it together nicely beautiful
Where do you get all this information
It was all Diaz. Sonny setting up the deal to be a trap, while using HIS OWN MONEY, just doesn’t make sense. Gonzalez informing Diaz about the deal also doesn’t make sense if Diaz and Sonny are working together. Sonny’s anger on the phone calls and body language in the cutscene is too convincing for it to all be an act. The stuff on Sonny’s table just isn’t enough evidence of the theory. I always just took that as a symbol of the mob’s recent involvement in the trade in general.
Sonny only care about himself he has no loyalty. I don't put it past him to set Tommy up while sacrificing his 2 best men & while losing money. I definitely got Sonny doing some dumb ass shit like that. You underestimate how much of a narcissistic backstabber he is
If you check textures of the hitmen, one of them is actually Tommy's evil (?) twin.
Guys .. thinking about it... If Diaz was behind the attack... Why does he still trust Lance? I mean... If he was behind, he should've gotten rid of both of them after the ambush
But this also puts another question... If it was Sonny, then why did Lance join his gang on the last mission or why did Sonny trust him.. even if he kept it as a secret
Even more of Lance was sometimes staying over at Diaz's mansion.. isn't it a little doubtful? Like he set up goons to ice his brother and would let him in his house and give him errands?
*Lance's behaviour was suspicious from the beginning of the game "I'll be watching you Tommy" to the end " I'm sorry Tommy, this is Vice City, this is business"* *, which leads me to think that he was a spineless scum ready to even sacrifice his own Brother*
@@domasavpedzivin the quote where he said that he will be watching him would most likely mean that Lance will be keeping an eye on him as a back up and ally to help out that doesn’t automatically mean that he’d planned on betraying him from the beginning.
@@InsurgentHarbinger *It can be interpreted in both ways, I guess*
did sonny want to get rid himself of tommy.
yes because sonny hide his envious and jealousy over tommy from tommy.
I still think it was Sonnie, he saw Tommy as a threat and a liability, so he just uses him to get into the drug trade. Sonnie must of instructed the hit men to not kill Tommy so he can start building his drug empire for him. So that way when Tommy takes over VC, Sonnie can kill him and claim everything for himself.
a long time ago when I was a kid I thought they were cops lol. But they would just arrest them.
They were actually cops, but from GTA V 🤡
I knew Ricardo was behind killing Vic
Ricardo Diaz’s men was trying Tommy and Victor
This whole "Sending Tommy away without revealing to him he's not part of the family no more" is not true. Sonny intended to use Tommy as the Forellis' man and muscle in Vice City, a proxy which would fulfill the Forellis' desire for expansion in the drug market. Tommy killing Sonny is when he fully separated himsefl from the family, similar to how Vito Scaletta killed Don Carlo Falcone. Diaz ambushed the deal. Mr. Black was the middle man who hired hitmen. Others knew of it because word got around due to Leo's bragging about his new-found wealth. Lance likely still had some pepole who worked with him from his and Vic's gang who may have discovered Diaz' plan. While this would be incredibly sloppy and foolish of Lance to slip up about the deal to Diaz, I don't think it's what happened as Lance and Vic returned to Vice after a long while away. Besides, Lance appears to have stopped using cocaine and Vic seemed to want Lance to stay away from Diaz as Diaz easily manipulated him.
I feel it was Diaz he legitimately saw Vic and Lance as a threat.
Did Tommy had a phone before he picked up Leo's phone?
Because as we know, Sonny is calling you, and if it's Leos phone that Tommy
is using, were did he get the number from
Sonny DEFINITELY wanted Tommy dead since the 70s. He tried then, but failed, and instead settled for locking him up for an indefinite period of time (presumably for life in his eyes), which catches him by surprise in May 1986 when he heard about his release ("Huh, $#!+! Didn't think they'd ever let him out" 'he kept his head down, helps people forget' "People will remember soon enough, as soon as they see him walking down the streets of their neighborhoods, it will be bad for business".). He then brings up southern expansion and gets the idea to send him there for the summer, intending to kill him and take control by August. What he DIDN'T realize was that Ricardo Diaz was the kingpin of Vice City thanks to a pair of brothers solidifying it 2 years before, and catching Cortez' "right-hand gimp", Gonzalez in the act and made him squeal on anything that would be detrimental to his empire. Cortez was naive in trusting Gonzalez ever since catching him steal "product" from him a couple times before. As it was from him that Gonzalez relayed to Diaz the info about Forelli was trying to break into Vice City, thus, he hired hitmen from Mr. Black (one of which was Leo Teal, the same guy Tommy kills later) and tried to rub out the competition by killing them all on the spot and take the money and drugs for himself. However, Tommy barely outruns the bullets and one of the brothers was still in the chopper at full takeoff mode who flies away. Those 2 start sniffing around for leads on who was responsible, at the same time, Sonny starts concocting his plan to kill Tommy to get him out of the way once and for all. Also at the same time, Diaz becomes suspicious of Lance, who's undercover as "Quentin", and by the time the bridges open, the jig is up and they know he did it. But Vance's emotions got the better of him and tries to kill Diaz in revenge-filled grief, only to almost get killed himself, forcing Tommy to abandon his own plans of catching Diaz with the stolen money and merchandise. This also marked the beginning of a relationship on the rocks between the 2 "avengers", so to speak. And the rest is history
diaz didn't order the attack it was sonny diaz had nothing to do with it till he said this "I TRUSTED YOU TOMMY"
My opinion: it was Sonny, but made Lance believe it was Diaz. There are tons of evidence, such as sending Lance to follow Tommy closely and keep reporting back to Sonny. If it would have been Diaz, he would never let Tommy close to him, especially not let him work for him.
Why do you think sonny ambushed tommy in the past? I thought he went to jail for murdering 15 dudes
It was Sonny. Here’s my theory: he already tried to kill Tommy in Hardwood but failed so he set up Tommy in Vice City as a pawn to start the business. He didn’t tell the other associates at the bistro that he was going to actually kill him instead. My evidence is that the shooters were Mr Black’s men. Sonny called Mr black because he is a 3rd party and the forelis won’t know except Sonny. He then transported the money in a private jet which explains how the money got back to Sonny so fast, during transport, Ken calls Sonny about the sour deal. At this point Ken will obviously say Tommy is still alive, which puts a dent in Sonny’s plan. Sonny now has to treat Tommy as a part of the family again to disguise himself. At the end of the game, Sonny tells the mob he’s gonna kill Tommy. The time between Sonny sending out the order to kill Tommy’s business owners and Sonny actually arriving was extremely short which is how I know he used the same jet to go to Vice. He also needed a private plane to transport guns.
Why it couldn’t be Diaz: we already know that Lance has a bad coke problem since vcs. He trusted a fed, then fucked up deals with the Mendez brothers etc. anything he says is not actually trustworthy. Hell, Lance starts accusing YOU of his own faults. Cortez also speaks in gossip, never fact. Cortez always speaks in maybe, never certain. Cortez can’t be trusted neither. Diaz doesn’t actually have a reason to sabotage a deal from the Vance brothers because they are previous partners and the forelis just aren’t known in Vice at the time.
People think Diaz is unpredictable, stupid and impulsive. But in both vcs and vc, he has been nothing but smart and fair. He’s just really, really high all the time.
Sonny Forelli tried to kill Tommy in the beginning.
I love the GTA games and Rockstar. But the writing and narrative are usually all over the place
It's clear that Sonny was a bastard but he wasn't idiot about the business. Tommy could be more useful with 20 kilograms of coke that without it. 20 k that could had been more money and power.
It's diaz, he sent men to ruin the deal
But why did the culprit not kill tommy at the docks?
The Assassination Contractor is Cortez
It was Sony Forelli he wanted tommy to go away with a reasonable cause (fallen in combat)
from himself.
@@patrikzotaj4528 no he was suposed to die in the exchange i think but things didnt go as expected so after that he went to solve the problem and the oportunity he created Tony is important so its not only more $ its also improved ranks
I was responsible
Ba é an Ricardo Diaz dhá aghaidh. Luaigh sé Tommy.
You all are wrong Diaz Is Not Person Behind The That deal it was Lance vance Stabber.
Lance was sunny friend and they both are behind this sunny says Lance to stay with Tommy and diaz for while takeout all information about businesses and that's how that happen Lance Know About Diaz Sunny Knows about Tommy. If you noticed mission where lance and Tommy goes to kill diaz diaz says Tommy i want to make big player and have to part of our business and this lance not like lance wants part of diaz but diaz wants to give to Tommy vercetti.
Leo and chefs stolen the money and coke and Gonzalez told on the Vance brothers to Diaz
Lance betrayed tommy
I AM worrying, Tommy. That's my style because I seem to have this problem in my life with unreliable people. Don't be an unreliable person, Tommy, please.
Ricardo Diaz was kind of close to Victor and Lance, why would he kill both of them?
That not true, actually Diaz wished to kill Vic Vance from (VCS) if something not trust him (did nothing hapens). but Diaz's ambushers did ultimately killed Vic vance and Harry and Lee it was planned by Lance Vance but dont forget Harry and Lee was carrying 2 briefcase full of money. which means there no way to Sonny Forelli to betrayal to Tommy Vercetii once again and in 1971 after arrested by cops and Cops was interrogated to Tommy Vercetti he didn't cough a single word he went silent which means Tommy is loyal to Forelli.
Got here 11 sec when the vid came out
The Forellis did it.
Diaz's men. End of story
Tommy is not a psychopath Dimitri Catalina and Claude are
If he’s not a psychopath, then why did he choose to ignore Lances personal feelings that he wasn’t treating him fair and yell at him to do dirty work like a lapdog? And wasn’t it was quite extreme that he killed Sonny Forelli only because he called the cops on him and didn’t give him a chance to explain himself that he didn’t set him up? Why did he abandon Ken Rosenberg instead of having any sincere consideration to help him? come on from these three points It’s obvious that he is.
@@InsurgentHarbinger fool he did tell him to take days off also he told Lance if he screwed up let him know and he told Lance he would not backstab him which Lance did in return but Lance is a lying sociopath selfish capitalist narcissist opportunist it's displayed in Vice City stories he did the same gaslighting shit with Vic Tommy is not a psychopath if he was he was not be pissed at the forellis beating up the old and wouldn't criticize the woman at the Cherry Popper who hate kids which he thought is fucked up
@@InsurgentHarbinger plus Tommy did more for the best than Lance has and Lance did was be lazy like he was in Vice City stories
Nice
the professional does a much better job on these
You know what i dont understand why is lance in vice city stories cause didn't he die in the original vice city tho????? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤨🤨🤨🤷♂️
Vcs is 2 years prior
First viewer 😂🎉
I got here 11 sec after the video came out
sonny did nothing wrong.
me awt de
If Sonny had played any part in the ambush at the beginning of the game I highly doubt Lance would’ve know about it. He wouldn’t want to work with someone who killed his brother even if it involved taking over someone else’s empire. Lance would want to avenge Vic straight away, just look at how impatient he got with Tommy and attack Diaz on his own completely ruining Tommy’s careful planning
Diaz
I think it was Diaz who hired Mr Black's Hitman It kind of makes sense to me when I started playing this game but then again I can be wrong