Please remember, there are two huge factors in heating water. Water expands when heated, and water does not compress well. The reason for the outer drum is to act as way to keep your water piping from becoming a "bomb". Never seal the tank from the atmosphere. The drum being open stops pressure building up, it also keeps the water at 212F or 100C Also, there should be a pressure/temperature relief valve in the outlet of the supply line side of the inner coil. (You can get one at almost any hardware) Even heating water from 60F to 140F will cause expansion, if all the valves are closed it could burst a pipe. Both of these reasons are also why you never just heat a coiled supply line. You can create excess pressure and temps that could really hurt someone
Well presented for the common man like me to understand. Love the efficiency of this sys, i.e., low fuel consumption, minimal smoke output. As a non-engineer looking at this, a few self-preservation alarms are going off in my head. As I was reading through the commentary some others have voiced the same concerns. The first thought that came to me was the need for a larger or an additional pressure release pipe off the filled-water drum. Secondly, it is imperative the water filled drum does not ever evaporate completely (boiled off) under heat. Suddenly filling an empty heated drum with cold water can cause an explosion. I believe historically this has happened at some boiler industry building when testing locomotive boilers. Can't recall where I read about it. Thirdly, if your incoming copper line is under pressure (let's assume 40 - 60 p.s.i.), and all output valves are turned off to where it is sealed, what happens if the water in that copper line becomes too hot or even boils? Is there some kind of pressure release valve in place for your hot water copper line? Perhaps some type of thermo-gauge can be set up to monitor your hot water line temp? Finally, I do not understand how the copper loop is installed. Perhaps the tank is cut out and then welded after the copper installation?
I like this,it looks like you live in a warm climate.I dont,it would be also possible to hook up mass water to a pump and use for radiators in the house?with an expansion tank as well of course! : ) Even further,where i live we have very hard water!! And i know there is anti freeze mix especially for radiator/Heating/Boiler use. I like this a lot!!! Brilliant!!! Nice one Geoff!!
Geoff. Not sure if this is your channel or not, but if you read this, I have sort of a funny story about "hot water heaters". I use to work as a plumber for a while, and anytime I would say "hot water heater" in front of my boss, he would go off, telling me in a real smart way, "you don't heat hot water bo, it's a water heater. If the water is hot, there's no need to heat it" (god rest his soul). He use to get on my nerves, but he was right. I thought you might get a kick out of that story. But here in the USA, everything is built disposable. Everything in a water heater is replacable, except the tank of course, when it leaks, there's no repairing it. So here, if we find an old water heater tank, it's usally no good. I heard you mention stainless steel tanks. I'd like to have a water heater made from stainless steel, it would never need replacing, only repaired. Or even high heat resistant plastic. But no company wants to build a water heater (or any other product for that matter)to last forever. Cool video.
well done...and in fact one could pipe that hot mass water exiting the system into a house and use as a boiler heat system and then pump the water back into the mass container once it has transferred heat into the building and cooled off
Geoff Thanks for sharing instead of sitting on this practical example! What would it take to use the 'top up hot water' (that bit you showed) to make cup of tea? Thanks for your efforts God bless Dave
Thanks Geoff, could you give me an idea of how long, it took too get the water hot enough for the taps or shower? I really love this idea for hunters cabin or a tiny house.
Hey Geoff , I'm still trying to work out how to feed that copper coil inside and get it connected without access through another part of the tank . Do you cut an access hatch and weld it up again after fitting pipe and fittings to inlets and outlets ?
thanks Geoff great vid the best system I have seen to date . I have an off gride property with no infrastructure and you have just solved my hot water problem cheers ps only another 50 or 100 other problem to solve but will be loving every minute
Like the idea that the unit is outside but with -35 winters the pipes would have to be well insulated as well as the barrel. I own a forest so no shortage of blow down wood. When we had hot water radiators even they had a blow-off valve, in case. My father would bleed them annually and the water was always rusty. Loved the rads as a source of heat as it's steady.
Have you tried a copper brazed fin heat exchanger, they are much more efficient than a coil, it's used widely in industry and can be found in oil boilers.
Guys/Gals - once again, if you want answers to your questions, then please comment on the post this video is embedded in (see link in 'About' section below the video above). The people with the answers you want won't see your comments here....
Hi great project , I was thinking of having the copper coil directly exposed to the fire , its gonna be a lot quicker, but what you said about having a steady fixed temperature makes a lot of sense , its a great point but my question was is the water hot enough yo use for radiators of a home central heating system with a pump pumping continuesly hot water in loop system , thanks
Awesome technology. I'm still addicted to cheap natural gas but in a remote setting this would be a great alternative to propane. The non-pressurized tank to heat the shower water is genius. I bet a toilette tank, set at the same level as the top of the heating tank could keep it full since water seeks it's own level.
cardiologist told me he has seen several cases lately that he believes are related to the vaccine. He mentioned he has also seen recent cases of myocarditis he believes are vaccine related. He advised me against any boosters in the future.
I suspect that Rocket Stove can also provide a solution for toilet problem. Suppose exhaust gas stream (a.k.a. smoke) is being somehow directed to where poo is. It takes away all water and smell very fast, right?
Thank you very much for elaborating and drawing it out very well done and im about to get started on mine ....And im educated now .THANK U THANK U THANK U !!!
You can do this without the copper pipe inside the tank.. you just need to feed the cold water in the bottom of the stainless tank and the hot water comes out the top.. its called a donkey and works very well.. much less complicated than cutting the ss tank open to insert the copper pipe and welding it up again.
I'd have this set up in a lean-to greenhouse next to the house to reuse all 'waste heat'. This puts it near where I need it while allowing certain safeties.
Would you be able to conserve the water better if you had a steam blowoff with a weighted door? That way, the steam only blows off after reaching a certain pressure instead of constantly blowing off.
That’s the part that seems tricky. Need a large plug with a reducing bushing to feed in. Bushing gets put on after copper is threaded in, then probably a compression fitting.
This is a great setup. One correction though: IMO the burn is all done before it leaves the riser. Because beyond that it will get only colder, thus not burn anything more.
I always come back to this one. Great video. How about coiling a hot water pipe around the heat riser/combustion chamber too? Would be too hot for showering, but could feed underfloor heating.
I think it's because to have complete combustion, you need a hot temperature, and wrapping that with water would cool it down too much. Besides, it seems like they're already extracting nearly all the heat from the main chamber area.
i would make 1 modification, were the fire is started i would have some sort of panel that could be removed for easy removal of ash and this would make running a chimney brush easier as well for cleaning the flute directly after the fire, but awesome video thanks for making it!
great video geoff but a few comments and questions: - i think you should mention that the type of electric hot water unit you've found is rare and that people need to make sure it is a low-pressure indirect system rather than direct - isn't it usually the tank lining itself in old electric hot water systems that gives way and not the electrical resistance component? - isnt the tank usually insulated itself which would reduce the efficiency of your unit, leading to hotter exhaust temperatures?
how do you effectively feed the copper coiled pipe into the closed tank with out a kink or an issue of any sort and smoothly get it to come out the other end?
Hi. Can you tell me if you will be able to have a continuous hot water supply. Is the heat input sufficient enough for a constant hot water flow demand or does it cool down?
Great video, Thanks. Just a quick question.... Where the feed to and from the copper coil pass through the heated chamber is there not the chance that it could turn to steam in the pipe if maybe you were running water via a pump and the pump failed?
cardiologist told me he has seen several cases lately that he believes are related to the vaccine. He mentioned he has also seen recent cases of myocarditis he believes are vaccine related. He advised me against any boosters in the future.
Wondering if it would be worth it to hook a used dismantled turbine housing from a car turbo up to the steam outlet. Attach a ribbed pulley leading to an alternator and you've got an additional 13.8v to charge a battery bank
Maybe vent it a little sooner and make a wood gasification generator , I'm sure you could trick it out to get the best of both worlds hot water AND electricity
He's building at the Antiquated way, there's a better way to build it using the out ventilation pipe and a copper coil surrounding the out ventilation pipe for the stove in which the heat from a stove heats the water from a separate tank and circulated back into the main system. This can be found on the show, off-grid builders.
Very good. Seems a little over complex to me however. How about simply a copper coil around a standard rocket stove barrel setup? Has that been tested?
Maybe by storing the heated water in another large insulated tank could make the system have more use for some situations. Just an idea. I havent made this yet..
Yes my brother use propane on a regular water heater with gravity feed water worked great .just light the water heater up when you wanted to take a shower ..then turn it off ..but I'm with ya ..how can you make a rocket stove to heat a regular water tank .would be great instead of propane ?
Interesting model, but I have some questions. I found that steel does not respond well to temperatures of 1000 °C - it will essentially slowly burn and not last for a long time, thus the longevity and thus sustainability of such systems are in question. Are there solutions for that? Another question: How do you make it that the hot air "spirals" around the tank? thank you
Ok I`ve only just seen this and think it`s a great idea. I`m wondering if that excess steam/water from the release could go up into a pipe then dog leg and be collected into another vessel (Maybe a 20litre SS urn for instance) so it could be returned back to the heat chamber with the other water it came from. This would theoretically still have an open circuit for the pressure but also allow repeated use of the same water in the heating chamber. All it would need is a tap on the vessel which is opened after a little cooling to allow the water to flow back into the 200litre drum. Steam would still be vented off but allow collection of the liquid. Just a thought in trying to prevent water loss making something a little more efficient
maybe has been asked before, but could not find it... how do you clean the ash from the stove? and could you center the stove heat to the center of the tank and have the hot air exit from the top? or more efficient from one end to end? maybe does not matter? nice video,ty.
What a clever idea and thoroughly explained..even looks simple enough for me to give it a go... Just one question...what size copper pipe do you coil inside the steel centre?? Thank you :)
i dont think it would matter too much as long as the water in the copper coil spends enough time in the water chamber. its all bloody hot water inside. it just takes the heat from the out side water as it passes through to your taps. hope that helps.
I've so far gathered bricks, a 44 gallon drum, a broken hotwater system, insulation and a friend to help...just need the copper pipe and fittings :) I'll let you know how it turns out and try to even send a photo. This is absolutely one of the most brilliant ideas I've ever seen!! Thank you so much!!
Stefan Dingenouts Sorry Stefan for my late reply....still haven't built it, as summer is here, and currently enjoying cold water in my out door spa :) ...I have been gathering bits and pieces for it, and thought bessar concrete bricks around a 3mm pipe would do the job ? Thank you for your advice.
Question (and pardon my stupidity please), Would it be a good idea to add an extra steam outlet for added protection against the build up? I am all for checking, re-checking, and checking again. So for me, nothing wrong with extra precaution. Having said, would it be wise to have two steam outlets, and if so, would it effect the heat output of the unit? Thanks in advance, and again, pardon my stupidity.
he showed in the video how to replenish the tank, as far as removing ash, wait till the burn is completely cooled and stick a shop vac down in there lol
oyinbo - the resident copper would be the remains of a heating element so not useable. This would require new copper tubing. I think you need to watch the video again.
That would work IF you ran it through some sort of cooling coil. Otherwise you'd simply be pumping boiling water back into an over heated system. You still want an emergency relief valve in place though. Just in case.
You have a length of copper pipe pre-coiled to the interior volume of the hot water heater. Then you thread it through the opening you cut for the cold water inlet and out through the hot water outlet.
how about if you flatten the top of the burn chamber and have a metal lid that can seal it shut to shut off the fire, then to activate this lid automatically you have the water overflow pipe fill up a container fixed on a pivot where the weight of it will pull the lid down after enough water has entered
I feel like an air to water heat exchanger or a pot on the stove + a hot water pump would be a lot simpler and more efficient. Every heated surface in your design is a form of resistance and heat loss. Sure all the layers insulate the heat but they also conduct it away from the copper tubing (which is really all you want to heat) until the wind comes and convects it off the corrugated sheet.
I've seen another design where the exhaust gas from the heat riser is sent through ducting, and in that ducting is a coil that holds the water you will use. That line has a pressure release on it, but the setup in this system is a bit safer, and you will continue to get hot to warm water with this system after the fire goes out, so long as the water tank hasn't been cooled down.
great video - it may be a dumb question but how does the water pressure happen - gravity feed water? electric pump ? solar pump? plus the insulation on outside could use something more earth friendly?
That's a great question! Water pressure is created by the interaction of 3 basic forces. 1) Thermal expansion 2) Adhesion - of water due to hydrogen bonding. 3) Cohesion - of water due to hydrogen bonding. The water in the coil is pressurized, therefore when the water heats and expands the pressure increases. Then when you open a spigot the pressure releases through the spigot. Then once the water begins flowing, it will continue to flow until you shut the spigot due to adhesion & cohesion - a suction like force that is inherent to water and certain other fluids.
Is there any reason why a copper water cylinder couldn't be used for this purpose. Stainless steel cylinders are rarely used in the UK but can be picked up as scrap for between £20 and £50. An indirect cylinder would already have a coil of copper inside.
good system but does not have an actual relief valve; if the steam vent should plug up (not a relief valve) from hard water deposits, an explosion will occur ,,,
Richard Cockburn - T&P valves plug up from hard water deposits too... Either require maintenance, but an open 3/4" tube will require less frequent cleaning than the T&P valve's smaller opening... And everyone should watch mythbuster's exploding water heater video, to truly understand the hazard of uncontrolled heating of water in a closed system, or improperly vented open system, and how important a vent of some sort is. T&P or pressure valves are only needed in a closed system. A system like this, where the only directly heated water is open to the atmosphere, can use a simple tube vent like this, just fine. Actually safer than a T&P valve as there is no pressure required for steam to start venting. The closed copper coil part of the system should have T&P valve though, in case anyone ever fires up the rocket core with no water in the open buffer/water mass tank that the closed copper lines pass through.
Why do you need that stainless steel tank with the water in it? Can it be just a bare copper coil? it got heat up directly. What is the scientific reason behind it? Just asking.
This is simple and easy However I can think of 2 minor improvement. You could use thermal syphoning with a second water mass drum with insulation but an open lid to allow pressure release, this would reduce wastage from the blow off and increase the amount of hot water you could have after the fire is out. The second improvement I would add would be a pre mixer that mixes the outgoing hotwater with a bit of cold water so you aren't getting near boiling water from your taps. But of course those changes add complications
Wish I could have this built, I live in a smoke free area so Am probably not allowed to have this done. Can this work as well as a house heater like those American mass heaters? They connect a steel pipe from the stove then run it along side a wall and window and then bend it to bring it back to the chimney. then cover the pipe with bricks and shaped it like a bench or a sofa.
isn't it bad to use pine cones because of the soot it puts in the "chimney" or does it get trapped by the water...but then could it clog up the lower holes??
The key to little or no soot is that whatever you burn be "seasoned" (thoroughly dry) wether it's hardwood or "resinous" wood. It all burns great if there is no water in them. (even tho it's hard to have it 100% moisture free)
Nice Job. the insulation just under the corrugated sheet metal is not really necessary if you use a pipe to extract air from this space for your feed air inlet. The top of the feed tube would need to be sealed with a simple lay on lid and the feed air would come through a pipe that draws the heat from between your barrel and outer metal cover. yep it is more complex but will give two advantages. One : your inlet air would be at a higher temperature and dry Two : the heat that would have been lost in the insulation or to atmosphere will be directed back into the flue.
Why introduce all the additional variables of multiple tanks, multiple water inlets/outlets, steam outlets, etc. Why not simply wrap your copper coils (far fewer needed since the heat would more directly transfer) around the chimney? If this is too efficient heat transfer for even few wraps of copper (water too hot) then you could add insulation between the chimney and copper coil. Manage water temperature by flow using a temperature gauge on the output side that controls flow (slows/increases flow). Just a thought.
That small amount of water could fluctuate and build up pressure real quick. Heating the tank of water and using water inside tubing running through the tank water gives you a buffer. Introducing flow limiting/increasing device based on a temperature sensing device adds complexity. If the water in the tubing gets too hot, what do you do? Pump it faster? Pump it to where? Back to a reservoir tank? He refers to a blow off valve but he really shouldn't as it's merely an open tube*which should be bigger imho and of course aimed out of harm's way). That means there's no moving parts, no temp or pressure valve, no thermostat or heating element. Nothing to fail really.
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Please remember, there are two huge factors in heating water. Water expands when heated, and water does not compress well. The reason for the outer drum is to act as way to keep your water piping from becoming a "bomb". Never seal the tank from the atmosphere. The drum being open stops pressure building up, it also keeps the water at 212F or 100C
Also, there should be a pressure/temperature relief valve in the outlet of the supply line side of the inner coil. (You can get one at almost any hardware) Even heating water from 60F to 140F will cause expansion, if all the valves are closed it could burst a pipe.
Both of these reasons are also why you never just heat a coiled supply line. You can create excess pressure and temps that could really hurt someone
Well presented for the common man like me to understand. Love the efficiency of this sys, i.e., low fuel consumption, minimal smoke output. As a non-engineer looking at this, a few self-preservation alarms are going off in my head. As I was reading through the commentary some others have voiced the same concerns. The first thought that came to me was the need for a larger or an additional pressure release pipe off the filled-water drum. Secondly, it is imperative the water filled drum does not ever evaporate completely (boiled off) under heat. Suddenly filling an empty heated drum with cold water can cause an explosion. I believe historically this has happened at some boiler industry building when testing locomotive boilers. Can't recall where I read about it. Thirdly, if your incoming copper line is under pressure (let's assume 40 - 60 p.s.i.), and all output valves are turned off to where it is sealed, what happens if the water in that copper line becomes too hot or even boils? Is there some kind of pressure release valve in place for your hot water copper line? Perhaps some type of thermo-gauge can be set up to monitor your hot water line temp? Finally, I do not understand how the copper loop is installed. Perhaps the tank is cut out and then welded after the copper installation?
How can anyone not like this guy. Great video. Thanks.
Great video, great info. I will be attempting to build one in the future. Geoff is one of my role models. Thanks for sharing
Very clear and lots of how to do instruction!! Thank you so much Geoff; I'm on my way making one for my family!!
You need a float valve in your outer tank to keep it topped up.
Nicely put across
I like this,it looks like you live in a warm climate.I dont,it would be also possible to hook up mass water to a pump and use for radiators in the house?with an expansion tank as well of course! : )
Even further,where i live we have very hard water!! And i know there is anti freeze mix especially for radiator/Heating/Boiler use.
I like this a lot!!!
Brilliant!!! Nice one Geoff!!
Geoff. Not sure if this is your channel or not, but if you read this, I have sort of a funny story about "hot water heaters". I use to work as a plumber for a while, and anytime I would say "hot water heater" in front of my boss, he would go off, telling me in a real smart way, "you don't heat hot water bo, it's a water heater. If the water is hot, there's no need to heat it" (god rest his soul). He use to get on my nerves, but he was right. I thought you might get a kick out of that story.
But here in the USA, everything is built disposable. Everything in a water heater is replacable, except the tank of course, when it leaks, there's no repairing it. So here, if we find an old water heater tank, it's usally no good. I heard you mention stainless steel tanks. I'd like to have a water heater made from stainless steel, it would never need replacing, only repaired. Or even high heat resistant plastic. But no company wants to build a water heater (or any other product for that matter)to last forever.
Cool video.
well done...and in fact one could pipe that hot mass water exiting the system into a house and use as a boiler heat system and then pump the water back into the mass container once it has transferred heat into the building and cooled off
Geoff
Thanks for sharing instead of sitting on this practical example!
What would it take to use the 'top up hot water' (that bit you showed) to make cup of tea?
Thanks for your efforts
God bless
Dave
Attach a collector to steam vent and you have distilled water.
which is safe to drink.
Thanks Geoff, could you give me an idea of how long, it took too get the water hot enough for the taps or shower? I really love this idea for hunters cabin or a tiny house.
How did you thread the copper line into the tank?
Hey Geoff , I'm still trying to work out how to feed that copper coil inside and get it connected without access through another part of the tank . Do you cut an access hatch and weld it up again after fitting pipe and fittings to inlets and outlets ?
thanks Geoff great vid the best system I have seen to date . I have an off gride property with no infrastructure and you have just solved my hot water problem cheers ps only another 50 or 100 other problem to solve but will be loving every minute
I find this quite ingenious. Well done
Like the idea that the unit is outside but with -35 winters the pipes would have to be well insulated as well as the barrel. I own a forest so no shortage of blow down wood. When we had hot water radiators even they had a blow-off valve, in case. My father would bleed them annually and the water was always rusty. Loved the rads as a source of heat as it's steady.
Have you tried a copper brazed fin heat exchanger, they are much more efficient than a coil, it's used widely in industry and can be found in oil boilers.
Guys/Gals - once again, if you want answers to your questions, then please comment on the post this video is embedded in (see link in 'About' section below the video above). The people with the answers you want won't see your comments here....
Hi great project , I was thinking of having the copper coil directly exposed to the fire , its gonna be a lot quicker, but what you said about having a steady fixed temperature makes a lot of sense , its a great point but my question was is the water hot enough yo use for radiators of a home central heating system with a pump pumping continuesly hot water in loop system , thanks
Awesome technology. I'm still addicted to cheap natural gas but in a remote setting this would be a great alternative to propane.
The non-pressurized tank to heat the shower water is genius. I bet a toilette tank, set at the same level as the top of the heating tank could keep it full since water seeks it's own level.
cardiologist told me he has seen several cases lately that he believes are related to the vaccine. He mentioned he has also seen recent cases of myocarditis he believes are vaccine related. He advised me against any boosters in the future.
I suspect that Rocket Stove can also provide a solution for toilet problem. Suppose exhaust gas stream (a.k.a. smoke) is being somehow directed to where poo is. It takes away all water and smell very fast, right?
Thank you very much for elaborating and drawing it out very well done and im about to get started on mine ....And im educated now .THANK U THANK U THANK U !!!
You can do this without the copper pipe inside the tank.. you just need to feed the cold water in the bottom of the stainless tank and the hot water comes out the top.. its called a donkey and works very well.. much less complicated than cutting the ss tank open to insert the copper pipe and welding it up again.
I'd have this set up in a lean-to greenhouse next to the house to reuse all 'waste heat'. This puts it near where I need it while allowing certain safeties.
Would you be able to conserve the water better if you had a steam blowoff with a weighted door? That way, the steam only blows off after reaching a certain pressure instead of constantly blowing off.
I'd like to have seen this being made - especially how the copper coil got threaded...
That’s the part that seems tricky. Need a large plug with a reducing bushing to feed in. Bushing gets put on after copper is threaded in, then probably a compression fitting.
Is there a reason why the hot water tank is laying on it's side? Would it work just as well if the tank is standing up?
This is a great setup.
One correction though: IMO the burn is all done before it leaves the riser.
Because beyond that it will get only colder, thus not burn anything more.
If you've ever watched a rocket stove in action, typically flames shoot out the top beyond the insulated heat riser.
I always come back to this one. Great video. How about coiling a hot water pipe around the heat riser/combustion chamber too? Would be too hot for showering, but could feed underfloor heating.
I think it's because to have complete combustion, you need a hot temperature, and wrapping that with water would cool it down too much. Besides, it seems like they're already extracting nearly all the heat from the main chamber area.
i would make 1 modification, were the fire is started i would have some sort of panel that could be removed for easy removal of ash and this would make running a chimney brush easier as well for cleaning the flute directly after the fire, but awesome video thanks for making it!
Awesome explanation and demonstration! Legend! You look like my mate Jaffa
great video geoff but a few comments and questions:
- i think you should mention that the type of electric hot water unit you've found is rare and that people need to make sure it is a low-pressure indirect system rather than direct
- isn't it usually the tank lining itself in old electric hot water systems that gives way and not the electrical resistance component?
- isnt the tank usually insulated itself which would reduce the efficiency of your unit, leading to hotter exhaust temperatures?
how do you effectively feed the copper coiled pipe into the closed tank with out a kink or an issue of any sort and smoothly get it to come out the other end?
Hi. Can you tell me if you will be able to have a continuous hot water supply. Is the heat input sufficient enough for a constant hot water flow demand or does it cool down?
Great video, Thanks. Just a quick question.... Where the feed to and from the copper coil pass through the heated chamber is there not the chance that it could turn to steam in the pipe if maybe you were running water via a pump and the pump failed?
yes you have to have a pressure relief valve somewhere on that line
cardiologist told me he has seen several cases lately that he believes are related to the vaccine. He mentioned he has also seen recent cases of myocarditis he believes are vaccine related. He advised me against any boosters in the future.
Wondering if it would be worth it to hook a used dismantled turbine housing from a car turbo up to the steam outlet.
Attach a ribbed pulley leading to an alternator and you've got an additional 13.8v to charge a battery bank
Maybe vent it a little sooner and make a wood gasification generator , I'm sure you could trick it out to get the best of both worlds hot water AND electricity
Sorry I see now why it would not work trying to think outta da box what can I say picture of an idiot in action :)
He's building at the Antiquated way, there's a better way to build it using the out ventilation pipe and a copper coil surrounding the out ventilation pipe for the stove in which the heat from a stove heats the water from a separate tank and circulated back into the main system. This can be found on the show, off-grid builders.
how long to heat that tank , and how many pine cones/ sticks did it take?
It is very important to have a well insulated heat rise too. That is vitally important according to Ianto Evans
Very good. Seems a little over complex to me however. How about simply a copper coil around a standard rocket stove barrel setup? Has that been tested?
The water buffer tank stops a small amount of water in a copper coil from flashing to steam and exploding.
I would cut the stainless water tank in half so I could do a good job coiling the copper tubing inside and then re-weld.
Maybe by storing the heated water in another large insulated tank could make the system have more use for some situations. Just an idea. I havent made this yet..
So how can you incorporate the "water heater" into the "rocket mass heater" that people are building into newer homes?
Yes my brother use propane on a regular water heater with gravity feed water worked great .just light the water heater up when you wanted to take a shower ..then turn it off ..but I'm with ya ..how can you make a rocket stove to heat a regular water tank .would be great instead of propane ?
Interesting model, but I have some questions. I found that steel does not respond well to temperatures of 1000 °C - it will essentially slowly burn and not last for a long time, thus the longevity and thus sustainability of such systems are in question. Are there solutions for that? Another question: How do you make it that the hot air "spirals" around the tank? thank you
Ok I`ve only just seen this and think it`s a great idea. I`m wondering if that excess steam/water from the release could go up into a pipe then dog leg and be collected into another vessel (Maybe a 20litre SS urn for instance) so it could be returned back to the heat chamber with the other water it came from. This would theoretically still have an open circuit for the pressure but also allow repeated use of the same water in the heating chamber. All it would need is a tap on the vessel which is opened after a little cooling to allow the water to flow back into the 200litre drum. Steam would still be vented off but allow collection of the liquid.
Just a thought in trying to prevent water loss making something a little more efficient
Can't believe you don't have more sub's, probably since everyone would rather watch useless stuff instead of stuff like this
This isn't his channel. Here's his/their channel. th-cam.com/channels/uMqPxtWBj86FREJCHB75_A.htmlfeatured
maybe has been asked before, but could not find it... how do you clean the ash from the stove? and could you center the stove heat to the center of the tank and have the hot air exit from the top? or more efficient from one end to end? maybe does not matter? nice video,ty.
What a clever idea and thoroughly explained..even looks simple enough for me to give it a go... Just one question...what size copper pipe do you coil inside the steel centre?? Thank you :)
i dont think it would matter too much as long as the water in the copper coil spends enough time in the water chamber. its all bloody hot water inside. it just takes the heat from the out side water as it passes through to your taps. hope that helps.
I've so far gathered bricks, a 44 gallon drum, a broken hotwater system, insulation and a friend to help...just need the copper pipe and fittings :) I'll let you know how it turns out and try to even send a photo. This is absolutely one of the most brilliant ideas I've ever seen!! Thank you so much!!
Stefan Dingenouts Sorry Stefan for my late reply....still haven't built it, as summer is here, and currently enjoying cold water in my out door spa :) ...I have been gathering bits and pieces for it, and thought bessar concrete bricks around a 3mm pipe would do the job ? Thank you for your advice.
good video. Does the hole unit put off heat or is the only heat coming from the chemony port ?
Excellent vid clearly explained, many thanks.
Question (and pardon my stupidity please), Would it be a good idea to add an extra steam outlet for added protection against the build up? I am all for checking, re-checking, and checking again. So for me, nothing wrong with extra precaution. Having said, would it be wise to have two steam outlets, and if so, would it effect the heat output of the unit? Thanks in advance, and again, pardon my stupidity.
+Scott Noble Yes the copper line can go into a boil, not a good thing. LOL.
Where do you run the cold water through so you don't get scalded and where should the adjustment valves be?
I assume the cold feed would come from a header tank or that could dangerously pressurise too?
Excellent explanation mate! Subscribed
What happens when the water in the copper coil turns to steam? Do you have a release valve in it?
How do you remove the ash ? and replenish the water in the tank ? (if the relief valve lifts)
he showed in the video how to replenish the tank, as far as removing ash, wait till the burn is completely cooled and stick a shop vac down in there lol
How do you get the copper tube inside the tank?
oyinbo - the resident copper would be the remains of a heating element so not useable. This would require new copper tubing.
I think you need to watch the video again.
This is inspiring, because their burn chamber doesn't even look that impressive, but obviously it works
Wow! That is amazing! Thank You so much for showing this to other people!
I think Heat Exchanger is the description here
fascinating - I want to use a rocket stove setup to heat up a spa pool. Do you recommend a system like this to heat the spa pool?
Seems you could add a hose connection to the end of the steam outlet refill while still cool and eliminate the need for two lines to weld. Yes?
That would work IF you ran it through some sort of cooling coil. Otherwise you'd simply be pumping boiling water back into an over heated system. You still want an emergency relief valve in place though. Just in case.
Is there much of a delay between lighting fire to actually getting hot water out of tap? Thanks, great video.
Stefan Dingenouts Ah ok, yes that makes sense. Thanks for reply
How do you deal with creosote build-up inside the 200 litre tank?
Why would you heat "Hot" water? Good video and good instructions.
Because it's not hot enough?
same reason you put "cold ice" in your drink aka "frozen ice"
Very informative but a question how would one pass the coiled copper pipe through the tank and bring it through the other side?
You have a length of copper pipe pre-coiled to the interior volume of the hot water heater. Then you thread it through the opening you cut for the cold water inlet and out through the hot water outlet.
Is it possible to scale this down? I am wanting a very small system to go into a bus conversions to just heat water only.
how about if you flatten the top of the burn chamber and have a metal lid that can seal it shut to shut off the fire, then to activate this lid automatically you have the water overflow pipe fill up a container fixed on a pivot where the weight of it will pull the lid down after enough water has entered
I feel like an air to water heat exchanger or a pot on the stove + a hot water pump would be a lot simpler and more efficient. Every heated surface in your design is a form of resistance and heat loss. Sure all the layers insulate the heat but they also conduct it away from the copper tubing (which is really all you want to heat) until the wind comes and convects it off the corrugated sheet.
I've seen another design where the exhaust gas from the heat riser is sent through ducting, and in that ducting is a coil that holds the water you will use. That line has a pressure release on it, but the setup in this system is a bit safer, and you will continue to get hot to warm water with this system after the fire goes out, so long as the water tank hasn't been cooled down.
in the drawing, is the orientation of tank (horizontal) correct? so evrything is laying on its side???
I like this video i would like to do this my self.
Could you use the steam for power use?
It should really be noted that this system was designed and built by Tim Barker, a guy who was managing Zaytuna farm at the time.
How often do you add the water to the barrel around the copper?
So how do you get your ash out? Very complicated system and the ash is a big flaw
great video - it may be a dumb question but how does the water pressure happen - gravity feed water? electric pump ? solar pump? plus the insulation on outside could use something more earth friendly?
That's a great question!
Water pressure is created by the interaction of 3 basic forces.
1) Thermal expansion
2) Adhesion - of water due to hydrogen bonding.
3) Cohesion - of water due to hydrogen bonding.
The water in the coil is pressurized, therefore when the water heats and expands the pressure increases. Then when you open a spigot the pressure releases through the spigot. Then once the water begins flowing, it will continue to flow until you shut the spigot due to adhesion & cohesion - a suction like force that is inherent to water and certain other fluids.
They get all their water from ponds way up a hill so gravity and the weight of the water volume in the ponds gives them plenty of head pressure.
is there any reason you couldn't use this system in a yurt and how easy is it moved from one place to another.
How long does it take from lighting before the water is ready to use ?
how long does it take to go from cold start to steaming / also could u use the blowoff outlet hooked to radiant house heating
I know that you made the video 5 years ago but I am wondering how long do you run the stove and how long does the h20 stay hot?
How long does the wood put into this system last for?
Few hours?
8?
how long can you have hot water if you decide to turn off the fire once the water is hot?
you have more effect than any other trillions dollar government plans.
allah bless your heart geof
Is there any reason why a copper water cylinder couldn't be used for this purpose. Stainless steel cylinders are rarely used in the UK but can be picked up as scrap for between £20 and £50. An indirect cylinder would already have a coil of copper inside.
I recommend a mixing valve so you avoid burns.
good system but does not have an actual relief valve; if the steam vent should plug up (not a relief valve) from hard water deposits, an explosion will occur ,,,
Richard Cockburn - T&P valves plug up from hard water deposits too... Either require maintenance, but an open 3/4" tube will require less frequent cleaning than the T&P valve's smaller opening...
And everyone should watch mythbuster's exploding water heater video, to truly understand the hazard of uncontrolled heating of water in a closed system, or improperly vented open system, and how important a vent of some sort is.
T&P or pressure valves are only needed in a closed system. A system like this, where the only directly heated water is open to the atmosphere, can use a simple tube vent like this, just fine. Actually safer than a T&P valve as there is no pressure required for steam to start venting.
The closed copper coil part of the system should have T&P valve though, in case anyone ever fires up the rocket core with no water in the open buffer/water mass tank that the closed copper lines pass through.
Just needs a stern warning sign at the firebox about double checking the water level before firing.
how much will it cost between electrician and plumber to install it?
Galvanic corrosion between the dissimilar metals? Longer term removal of bituminous build up on ss tank?
The water in the tank isn't used in the house. Only the water in the copper tubing.
thank you so much for sharing great videos and information.. great video..
800-1 000 degrees C, this is enough to break down plastic isn't it ? Thoughts?
Why do you need that stainless steel tank with the water in it? Can it be just a bare copper coil? it got heat up directly.
What is the scientific reason behind it? Just asking.
How do u get rid of your ashes & where do you replace the water that decapitates through the steam outlet?
This is simple and easy However I can think of 2 minor improvement. You could use thermal syphoning with a second water mass drum with insulation but an open lid to allow pressure release, this would reduce wastage from the blow off and increase the amount of hot water you could have after the fire is out. The second improvement I would add would be a pre mixer that mixes the outgoing hotwater with a bit of cold water so you aren't getting near boiling water from your taps. But of course those changes add complications
How do you get rid of the ash?
How do you clean the chimney chamber?
***** Thanks, have a great day
Wish I could have this built, I live in a smoke free area so Am probably not allowed to have this done. Can this work as well as a house heater like those American mass heaters? They connect a steel pipe from the stove then run it along side a wall and window and then bend it to bring it back to the chimney. then cover the pipe with bricks and shaped it like a bench or a sofa.
wonder if this is allowed in London?
isn't it bad to use pine cones because of the soot it puts in the "chimney" or does it get trapped by the water...but then could it clog up the lower holes??
The produced heat circles around the barrel containing the water, so the soot never enters your water supply.
The key to little or no soot is that whatever you burn be "seasoned" (thoroughly dry) wether it's hardwood or "resinous" wood. It all burns great if there is no water in them. (even tho it's hard to have it 100% moisture free)
Good video mate !
Nice Job.
the insulation just under the corrugated sheet metal is not really necessary if you use a pipe to extract air from this space for your feed air inlet. The top of the feed tube would need to be sealed with a simple lay on lid and the feed air would come through a pipe that draws the heat from between your barrel and outer metal cover.
yep it is more complex but will give two advantages.
One : your inlet air would be at a higher temperature and dry
Two : the heat that would have been lost in the insulation or to atmosphere will be directed back into the flue.
Why introduce all the additional variables of multiple tanks, multiple water inlets/outlets, steam outlets, etc.
Why not simply wrap your copper coils (far fewer needed since the heat would more directly transfer) around the chimney? If this is too efficient heat transfer for even few wraps of copper (water too hot) then you could add insulation between the chimney and copper coil. Manage water temperature by flow using a temperature gauge on the output side that controls flow (slows/increases flow). Just a thought.
That small amount of water could fluctuate and build up pressure real quick. Heating the tank of water and using water inside tubing running through the tank water gives you a buffer. Introducing flow limiting/increasing device based on a temperature sensing device adds complexity. If the water in the tubing gets too hot, what do you do? Pump it faster? Pump it to where? Back to a reservoir tank? He refers to a blow off valve but he really shouldn't as it's merely an open tube*which should be bigger imho and of course aimed out of harm's way). That means there's no moving parts, no temp or pressure valve, no thermostat or heating element. Nothing to fail really.
I love this guy so much lol. so helpful and humble.