For anyone asking "Where's Part 2?" please refer to this community post from 3 days ago: th-cam.com/channels/f1OHsudbaKKF6zWf7rWoYg.htmlcommunity?lb=Ugkxc_0i4NfF8c-DuzFHUMj3CparR7JkWj44
Just say you didn’t like the film it’s simple.. You DON’T need fucking multiple parts to explain why it ruins the previous movie. it doesn’t need to be a fucking hour long for the first 10 minutes of the film!!
Here’s the thing: I’m not from an English speaking country so Evelyn’s name passed over my head. However it was still SO OBVIOUS that she was the villain that I was convinced she was actually NOT the villain, just the stereotype of the kinda weird person that you’re supposed to be suspicious of that turns out to be innocent. Edit: i was also just lying to myself cause i had a crush on her and didnt want her to be evil
A "red herring". Yeah, she was clearly introduced as a twist villain by her first scene and look: the increasingly darker colours in her palette, her way to sit legs crossed mostly in the shadow... Off-topic: she's clearly a shaggier-haired carbon copy of Roxanne from Megamind.
"Are you really criticizing the logic in a silly-" Yes. Even Bugs Bunny has pretty consistent logic, despite being a cartoon who regularly defies real world logic. If a setting decides one set of rules applies in the first episode, and then changes that expectation in the second, an explanation is required.
Right on. I really hate pretentious a**holes, who think people like GamingMagic13 and Mauler are nitpicking because they don't understand that internal logic is a thing.
The fact that you use bugs bunny as an example completely kills your credibility. You’re just making things up. Looney tunes isn’t even a world building heavy show. It was a sketch show 😂😂😂
@@timy9197 I think their point is that if even something as wacky as looney toons maintains it's internal logic, than something as serious as the Incredibles can do the same
Here's the thing. I never wanted to see their fight with the Under Miner. I had not expected a sequel given how the first movie ended, but I think picking up right where that one left off was a catastrophic mistake that subsequently held back the potential of a sequel. The Incredibles wasn't about the action, it was about the family dynamics, done to everyone's powers being a reflection of their role in the family. What they needed was a time skip like what happened with TS3. Allow them to have years of happiness culminating in new family dynamics to explore. A father son struggle where Mr. Incredible feels like he can't keep up with Dash, the new young face of modern Heroes. You could have Violet grown-up ready to leave her family and disappear into the bigger world. Jak-jak unsure of what direction to go as he's entering his teenage years, changing to fit in. And Helen trying to keep the family together. These are just bare bones thoughts, but the point is.... Incredibles 2 felt empty because it wasn't built on the core of the first.
Thank you. Literally, just take the weird pizza guy angle they were obviously going for before they got addicted to twist villains and use him as the main bad guy with the same "screens are evil" motive. Maybe have him against their version of automatic pizza delivery or something.
@@sonicnetwork2944 did you even read the comment you replied to? He gives all the reasons Incredibles 2 was nothing compared to the first 1. It’s not even an opinion at this point. Incredibles 2 was atrocious compared to its predecessor. So many things in the second 1 just don’t make logical sense. It’s not a based experienced. It was inconsistent with the first 1 with all the characters personalities. Violet was annoying as Hell. Bob was clueless. Dash looked weird as Hell. Jack Jack was WAY too much in focus. We don’t care THAT much about a damn mumbling baby. It’s cute but the amount of air time was just ridiculous. The movie also felt almost like it was too self aware. And many characters behaved so differently than they did originally. It was just a huge disappointment.
The annoying thing about the underminer fight is that they could’ve made it a close battle without nerfing Mr Incredible into oblivion. They were underground, which would be the underminer’s area of expertise. He could have a network of tunnels and use the darkness to land a bunch of sucker punches on Bob, with Bob having to adapt to a very different environment
@@SonicPlayer2004 He is a mole person, so something like smell or sensing vibration isn’t out of the question. They could also just give him night vision goggles since those would be very useful for someone who spends all their time underground
And on top of that, given that it's underground, the last thing he'd want to do is level the city by getting too intense -- the whole reason he had to STOP being a hero to begin with was because he wasn't able to prevent civilian casualties, even if people were only injured.
That's for sure. I mean the way you describe it has the suspense of a great battle. Mr. Incredible has the advantage on the surface while the Underminer has the advantage underground.
I never-Let me repeat. NEVER. Cared about the underminer plot at the end of the first film. To me that simply signified the fact that they would be fighting crime regularly as a family. The fact that they chose to start this plot right where the last one left off TEN YEARS LATER was such a let down when you know damn well they could have easily aged everyone and written an entirely new storyline from there!
Right, and it just makes it hard, because you have to actually continue the story immediately from that point--every character, every plot point, every object in the world, needs to be in exactly the same place. This is difficult to do when the first movie was a complete story, the arcs were all completed, etc.
YES! Thank you! He's not SUPPOSED to be an actual "next big villain"-he is written as a joke one-off character that signifies that the bad guys will always be out there, and that the Incredibles are now ready to fight them as a team. I hate that they continued with the fight against him in the second movie.
What bothered me the most about that scene of Winston picking Helen to be their representative was how selfish Bob was. Even before his arc in Incredibles 1 he was always shown to love his wife, despite their differences. He would never get upset at her getting to be a superhero and WOULD NEVER insult her by insinuating that he's a better superhero than she is. He would be more concerned about her safety or who will take care of the kids. Not that Helen is taking his glory from him.
Just like Disney is over correcting with Marvel, their normal films will suffer from the same. They feel the need to boost the female main character while also doing everything within their power to make the male main character as reprehensible or incompetent as possible.
@@qc6057 Exactly. It's all apart of the modern trend of male characters (especially established ones) having to be torn down in order for the female characters to step up and shine. Here's a question: Why can't they *both* shine? Seriously. It's been done in the past, and it can be done again. I swear, mainstream creators are *constantly* moving backwards and it's incredibly (no pun intended) *frustrating!*
@@CoCoCo1212 The idea that a male character needs to be dumbed down in order for a female character to get somewhere is insulting. It’s not the “girlboss” fantasy they think it is. But Disney has this very shallow idea of what makes a female character “strong” or great now, so it doesn’t surprise me. It’s times like these when I miss characters like Mulan, Jasmine, or even Belle. Anna was a pretty decent character too, and none of these females characters needed a male character to be dumbed down.
The most recent film that did this well is Edge of Tomorrow: Live Die Repeat. Watching the Tom Cruise and Emily Blunt character learn to work together to fight alien invaders is awesome.
I think it's brilliant that Dash's and Violet's arcs in the first movie are the complete opposite of each other: he wants to be special and she wants to be normal. Not only that, their powers are paralels to their emotional state: Dash is impatient and reckless (superspeed) and Violet is shy, insecure and doesn't want to come out of her shell (invisibility and force fields). Meanwhile in The Incredibles 2: Violet is sad because of a boy and Dash can't do math.
I just realized, how come everybody else (except for Jack Jack) has 1 power while Violet has 2 I most definitely could be wrong, but That’s just my thought process
@@8-Bitcrush i guess because Invisibility fits Violet's character more but she wouldn't have been able to have as cool action scenes as the others because that power isn't inherently impressive offensively? Dunno.
Well I guess you can argue for Dash that in the first movie, he’s shown to be slacking off, playing tricks on his teacher, instead of focusing in class. Especially since he’s shown to be doing this out of pettiness for his parents not letting him in sports.
@@osmanyousif7849 I can understand him, imagine being really good at something and your parents not letting you doing it. And Dash wanted to see how fast he could go, and pranking his teacher so fast that no one noticed him was his way of testing his limits.
"Did you stop the Underminer from inflicting more damage?" "YES." "The banks were insured" "That literally has nothing to do with the thousands of lives that would've been lost without the Incredibles' help" "If you had simply done nothing-" "Everybody would be dead. Next stupid argument?"
@@funveeable: I agree with everything, *Except* "Insurance Lawyers Never Lose". *1)* They lost their *Humanity,* considering how they manipulate people and the damage they cause! *2)* I *guaran-f***ing-tee* you they'd lose this case - *Because of lack of insurance from drills and explosives - SO hard,* you honestly have to wonder where the *WORLDWIDE* broadcast is of that case essentially ending all insurance lawyers' & companies' careers *For-eh-ver!!*
Not going to lie, the points he made here were inaccurate. The entire reason the drill was on the surface in the first place was that Mr Incredible confronted Underminer and forced him to abandon his drill. Mr Incredible then promptly broke the controls, unintentionally causing the entire machine to surface and plow through the city. So while in a meta sense, yes, the police are actually right on this one. If Bob did nothing, the Underminer would have just fled downward via his drill. The Underminer did not intend for that destruction to happen at all. However, the actual issue here is how would the police have known it was them who caused the drill to surface for this accusation. I suppose you could argue eyewitnesses saw Mr Incredible emerge from the drill and informed the police, but we're writing the script for them at that point.
We already knew that though, the first movie is one of the highest regarded pieces of animation in history and was long since heralded as a legendary masterpiece far before 2 was even announced. 2 did jack sh##
@@_-Lx-_ Yes, yes we did. But Incredibles 2 made us appreciate how much of a masterpiece THE Incredibles is even more than we ever have. That’s the memo here.
My dad's favorite movie of all time is The Incredibles, no joke. He's almost 70, and probably watched it like, 40 times or something now. Drives my mom absolutely crazy cause she's sick of it (as much as she still really enjoys it too). It's got everything he could want- good family themes, subtle-but-important conflicts, a happy and hopeful ending, fun action, and great messages all-around. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It's nigh perfect, and he loves it for it. I've never heard him talk about The Incredibles 2 once, despite him seeing it opening night.
I’m so sorry for your dad. Imagine looking forward to this after being such a fan of the original for FOURTEEN YEARS and it comes out and is an actual dumpster fire… It’s sad man. It’s really sad.
Bob's character assassination reminds me of how they treated Homer and Peter over the years. Please stop writing father characters this way, it hurts to see good characters suddenly become selfish and self centered for no reason.
At least before the second movie, I always assumed that by the end of the first movie, the family had moved into a new house and were able to return to a mostly normal life.
@@GamingMagic13 Wow. I can’t believe you really woke up and chose Violets. You seriously need to take this movie with a dash of salt. This video’s runtime is way too stretched out. Especially considering you’re criticizing a children’s movie smh. You’re arguments weren’t even that strong, you sped through everything, and you’re just force-fielding yourself from criticism. Unless you somehow aren’t, but that would be a stretch.
Anyone else notice how sometime when he says a word, the footage will show the characters doing that thing? Like when he says 'And they fumbled the ball completely ', you can see Helen fumbling the phone in the background. Now that is true dedication.
Yep, it's good editing. So many "video essays" with just have random clips or game footage playing in the background, so I appreciate when someone takes the time to show clips that provide proper context. Honestly, this guy reminds me a lot of Mauler. I'm interested to see more of his content.
I absolutely adore that type of editing. Small, yet greatly appreciated details that add so much to the viewing experience. Infinitely better than the over-edited garbage era we live in.
One of the biggest issues I take with a lot of Pixar sequels is retreading story beats while foregoing continuity for plot reasons. They don't tell a new story, they just insult the original one.
19:11 You know, when you mention Bob accidentally broke the control panel. I just realize, that even in the direst situation, Bob is still very calculating. When Syndrome kidnaps Jack Jack, his own son, he doesn't just try to throw something because it might hurt Jack Jack, even when Helen persuades him to do something. Only after Jack Jack has been saved, he does do something, throw his car and end Syndrome. This kinda makes me wonder if he ever kills or essentially puts the villain in the hospital for a very long time.
I mean, a punch from him can probably instantly KO a villain if well placed. But I think in the prime of his Superhero days he did try not to kill. However, at the same time, in the first movie when he threw the railcar at those 2 guards... Yeah they're dead. There's an argument either way.
@@donnythedingo To be fair, Bob had a lot a rage building up all those potential years. The throw through the wall wasn’t just for the prevention of a wallet stealing, it was payback for everything the boss put him through.
@@BabyGhast4 and he also couldn't save someone that was getting mugged nearby. You could see him getting angry because he can't do anything to help them.
1:09:55 Bob was actually very familiar with Gazer Beam considering he was at Bob's wedding which was a secret wedding, so you would assume all the people that were there are very close friends, which would explain Bob's reacting in seeing Gazer Beam's corpse in the first movie.
My biggest peeve i have with this movie is Hellen doing basically what her husband did in the first movi e and No One Sees History Repeating Itself. Its almost like what if they made a sequel to Wreck it Ralph where Vanelope's new dream is to go Turbo.
I believe the biggest killer of this movie was its conception. The movie was produced years after the original, and within that time society changed greatly. That plus I believe incredibles 2 was made solely off of fans wanting it. That within itself took away the potentially organicness of a sequel. I notice that a lot of projects that are brought to life because of fans either is a disappointment or cash grab
Yep goes to show people can't leave a good thing well enough alone. Star Wars is another example. People wanted more movies. They got them. Now the legacy is diminished
I feel like the only sequel that came about from fans wanting it was Aliens, which, to my understanding, came about because James Cameron wanted a sequel to the original.
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Uh, the only Star Wars movies arguably made for fans was Empire Strikes Back, which is fantastic, and Return of the Jedi, which is okay. The prequels were made for Lucas himself, and the sequels were made as cash grabs. Star Wars is the exact opposite of an example.
That's the thing about sequels, it's a hit or miss. Had the Incredible sequels been released in the time spots of the Car sequels they might have been great.
@@normadgarmez7026 same thing I felt when I heard 2 was being announced. At the time I was already content with the first being a stand alone hit, however I was willingly to give it a chance cause there are plenty of good sequels that I’ve seen
1:05:58 One point to make: it is implied in the first Incredibles that Bob's original Mr. Incredible suit is not made of ordinary material, as Edna immediately infers that Bob has been moonlighting hero work because of the fact that he managed to get it damaged. It doesn't *entirely* excuse the fact that both Bob and Helen's classic suits survived their home's destruction, but it is evidence that their supersuits have always been more durable than standard spandex, especially given that if they weren't exceptionally durable, Bob's suit would have suffered some significant damage in the first film's introductory scene from the friction of shaking that tree alone.
It's very sad to imagine someone dismissing this analysis and saying "it's just a movie". Any fictional media deserves respect and close attention, because that's how it improves. It's imbuing meaning to something that is really just smoke and magic and on some level is just entertainment, but it could be more.
Not to mention "it's just a movie" happens to mean, It's only the result of thousands of man hours of labor It's only the livelihoods of hundreds of families It's only the cost of several million dollar I think everyone can agree, it would be nice if all that could have been used to make an actually good piece of entertainment.
@@reggielacey2235 Your right it's not bad, if this movie was a standalone movie that is. But the thing is, this movie is a sequel to one of the most critically acclaimed Pixar movie. People are going to judge it as a sequel to something special and this movie compared to the first one it doesn't hold up lol...
The big issue with the opening sequence is how "obligatory" it feels. Much like Back to the Future Part 2, they're just doing whatever they can to resolve the hook the last movie left so they can move on to tell their main story. But at least BTTF had a whole act dedicated to it, instead of just a prologue.
Back to the future didn't have such problems, in fact it was "one" script for all three movies, every single detail was calculated, even seemingly insignificant things.
Whatever the case, the first one was written as a standalone, so even if it flopped, it wouldn't leave too much hanging. And when the second movie follows up on the hook of the first, going to the future actually has a significant role in kick-starting the plot, when Marty considers the idea of bringing a sports almanac back with him and Biff actually goes through with it.
@@Mr.Heller Sorry but no, BTTF was supposed to be a one-and-done thing, that's why Jennifer goes to the future with Marty. I'm gonna try to find the clip where Robert Zemeckiz stated that they didn't really know what to do with her in the follow-up movie because like I said BTTF was conceived as a one-and-done project. Now BTTF 2 and 3 were actually made pretty much at the same time, so they wouldn't have a similar issue (that's my guess). Edit: th-cam.com/video/aoEQmgDWF4Q/w-d-xo.html (here it is)
The Underminer just got a BIG W! 1. He declared War on Happiness and Joy and got no consequences. 2. He got rich. 3. Beats up the one and only Mr. Incredible at Hand To Hand combat. 4. Escape freely with all the city’s cash and nothing bad happens to the underminer.
First movie Mr. Incredible: He can throw a giant robot with no problem Second movie Mr. Incredible: A moleman kicks his ass, he only can defeat a super as strong as him with help, can't smash some tubes that obstruct his way
@@richadoruisuthegod3674 On the jungle, he was able to punch the omnidroid and toss him a certain distance away from him and on the city he could stop him from crushing his kids and later tackle him with no problem
It is not possible that Brick is anywhere close to the strength of Mr Incredible because she would have been dead since making an Omni droid as strong as Bob was very important to Syndromes plan
Personally, I think the movie should have started a year or two after the first one ended. Maybe reference the Underminer fight, but not begin with it. This movie could have benefitted with a small time jump. I also think that Screenslaver had potential to be a good villain but they dropped the ball. The scene at the apartment was awesome and they could have expanded on it in more interesting ways.
Was literally just thinking this, did not actually expect them to continue directly from the underminer but i feel a big part of why they did that is because of jack jack jokes 🤦🏿♂️
nah, this fight just had to be on a truly epic scale, and for the right reasons. It would've started the movie on an 'incredible' high. And if they could follow that, the movie would've been a masterpiece Like starting ROTS with that epic space battle to ship boarding to duel to rescue of Palpatine, to 'another happy landing.' Something like that; truly epic
Start the movie with (a differently choreographed) Underminder fight so we can get the satisfaction of seeing that after all the years of build up. Then, have the rich mf find them based on his connections from working with Mr. D and seeing their fight with the robot on TV (it took time because surprise-surprise, it's hard to find supers through a government program). I think it'd be much better for pacing while keeping some sense to what's established.
that was what I was thinking, a time skip would been the way to go and deluge into new struggles the family have to get through as Superheroes like Maybe Violet struggling with juggling her responsibilities with hero work and normal life that it stresses her out to the point it puts a strain on her [her renouncing superheroes would of been a big thing as it mirrors back to how she wants to be normal in which case it be like Spider Man 2 where Peter Parker mentally shuts her powers off wanting to be normal and not bearing anymore the weight of responsibility which was costing her time with Tony and the ordinary mundane life only when something bad happens and Tony gets caught in it that she must accept her role as a superhero while maybe coming to the big decision that she must let go of Tony as she doesn't want the mental baggage and strain her role has put on both of them throughout the movie [it be a tearful moment for her as she is letting go of someone she wants to be with even though she still has her heart set on him which in turn means letting go of the thing she sought for which is being just a normal human being. Maybe Tony makes his own choice and decides to still want to be with Violet despite the difficulties the two will face in short Violet finds herself someone who is willing to go the distances with her despite difficulties they will face]. Heck maybe Dash gotten rebellious over time and starting to go the same way Dick Greyson went as he got older and not wanting to be in Batman's shadow as Robin which leads to a period of estrangement and resentment between father and son much to Helen's distress and Bob regretting what he did to lead to his own son to hate him now and trying to make amends to no avail till some point in the movie the two must make up and put what happened to them behind them in order for unity to happen again in the family/ Superhero team. Helen doesn't really need much of an arc but rather she be the one to play an important role in the whole Dash Bob conflict and helping Violet in her own personal struggle, who knows maybe now that she is getting older and isn't as good as she was in the during her "top of her game" time and the events and in between of the first film when the family were together, her role as a damsel in distress is the reason to lead both father and son to set aside whatever pains that has now walled their bond to unify and save a love one from death as for Jack Jack, he is still a Superhero in training with some control of his power. maybe he will act as Helen's support and rock to hold her up on her own journey and quest to try to keep the family together. that is what I think the sequel should been, if Pixar aged up Andy in Toy Story 3 why not with the Parr family.
I love listening to people talk so passionately, it's so good :p Also, Mr Incredible is getting Superman writing, where he's precisely as strong as the writers need him to be at that very moment in time, where sometimes he can lift earth one handed with ease, sometimes he struggles to lift a rock half the size of his body.
As a parody of Superman, Wordgirl is the same way. She can destroy a giant robot with ease (most of the time, anyway) but gets defeated when The Butcher buries her in an avalanche of meat.
I like how you actually mention how it makes no sense that many witnesses can testify that the Incredibles family saved people and prevented destruction and not caused the destruction as the police were trying to imply at the beginning of the movie.
My biggest problem with it is how much Bob is so selfish and incompetent as a father even though in the first movie it was the total opposite. My second biggest problem is how useless the kids are, I really thought they were gonna be the main focus of this movie and Jak Jak kinda is but is mostly used for laughs and Hellen I love her I really do but she did not deserve to be the main character of the movie in my opinion not that it’s her fault she’s still one of my personal favorite.
Dash was completely left in the dust compared to first one. Guy was the one who protected his sister from other mercenaries by luring them away and then took them all out by using terrain to his advantage, all while only running. Meanwhile Dash in sequel is stoned when facing other super heroes even though he could have took out some of them by himself even without Violett or Frozone just for the fact how fast he is.
i though when movie was coming out it would focus on parents try to explain to kids about adult world with heroes being illegal and what not. like they stop a villain or something and while parents what to bail from eyes, kids want to show off before world. a growing up theme of movie but instead we got two steps back
Fun fact about the original Incredibles: Supers were able to get sued during the prologue of the movie because the good samaritan law wasn't in the same effect as today. Matpat from film theory video call "can you sue a superhero" goes into much more detail about this but long story short the original went the extra mile to place it during the only time it could of to make any legal sense.
When Disney bought Pixar I talked to a friend about how long we guess it would take until Pixar loses its magic and their movies become mediocre. Incredibles 2 and Toy Story 4 answered those questions very clearly.
That’s two movies out of like 20. And this just seems like you’re picking the two sequels that were made out of properties you grew up with after you were no longer a kid. Of course those are the ones you would pick.
@@timy9197 Light Year seems to be bad, Luca seems mediocre, Turning Red is weird, Incredibles 2, Toy story 4. Not the best streak. But recently-ish we also got Coco, maybe Soul (I'm not sure how to judge Soul exactly yet), Onward (I think it's pretty good). Personally right now, I think Coco is the strongest out of those. Also, both of those were sequels that the original movies came out years ago. I think the real link is that Disney is bad at sequels.
When Disney bought Pixar I thought it would suck too - and for the first half of the buyout the red flags hadn't popped up yet for me until Brave. After that their movies went on a slow, steady trail toward declining.
@@eatatjoes6751 I don’t blame Disney for Pixar’s movies going on a decline. Even if Disney hadn’t bought them I’m pretty sure we still probably would’ve gotten their more mediocre to bad movies anyway.
I remember going to the theater with my younger sister to see this and we were both left incredibly confused. The whole time we were laughing at the bad plot holes and how so many things were never getting answered. For example, we immediately talked about how The Underminer just....escapes, and NOBODY ever mentions it ever again in the plot, or how every character's motivations just flip to an instant 180* for "reasons" that just ruins how this was supposed to be like a week after the events of the first movie.
Actually, one of the nitpicks you mentioned could have changed the story. If Violet didn’t have a stroller for Jack Jack, she would’ve had to hold him in her arms, which likely would have prevented her from throwing her mask down, causing the entire “arc” of her character throughout the movie to be nonexistent
I guess she could have held him one handed/in one arm while taking off then throwing the mask but......who wants to go through that effort or risk dropping their infant brother?
I'll never forget Brad Bird saying he'd only make an Incredibles sequel if he had a really good idea. I don't know what Disney did to have him turn this but this is what we got. Especielly when the other idea I heard about Incredibles sequels while nothing crazy at least didn't retcon Supers being illegal.
they forced his hand and pixar itself is now disney's slave, churning out sequels and crap on command. they have lost most of their original talent to other studios and only make new movies once every few years. it's sad, really.
You know what this video is making me realize? The kids' arc (or at least Dash's) in this movie should have been focused on collateral damage. Think about it: in that opening action scene, he's rushing to save people from debris. But what if, in a moment that could be reminiscent of A-Train from The Boys, he rushes to save someone, but with his super speed gives them whiplash? Or dislocates a wrist that he yanks on to rescue someone from debris? Immediately, he'll be ripped from the high of getting to participate in superheroics down to the reality of what happens when someone with super speed doesn't have complete control and restraint of that overwhelming power? Dash would then have to grapple with his desire to be a superhero and use his great powers and the damage he can easily do to innocent people. This can be something he can dwell on and retreat into himself a bit because of it, he could even visit the people he accidentally damaged. Guilt ridden, traumatized, demoralized, etc. He could even come to a realization that making superheroes illegal made sense and was for the best. He could devolve into a (kinda) self hating super for a second, think about how powerful that would be for Dash. The kid that was giddy when he asked "As fast as I can?!" when his mother finally told him it was okay for him to unleash his full powers. The kid that was excited beyond belief that someone thought enough about him to create a specially made suit for him to unleash his unique powers. The kid that was geeking out in the car after the adventure was over and flailing all over the place about how much he loves being part of a superhero family. Only to have him realistically devolve into the state of mind that superheroes are dangerous and were better off in hiding. He should have remained in hiding. He doesn't deserve to be a superhero, he doesn't deserve his powers, he doesn't deserve to be incredible. Then Bob could notice this change in his son's behavior and finally he can have a scene with Dash that would mirror the scene Helen had with Violet in the first movie. Bob can explain that the reason heroes were banned in the first place began with him saving someone and accidentally hurting them. We can finally get some introspection on that moment in his life, that time period in this world, Bob's development shining through as he gives Dash whatever wisdom he needs to get past this traumatic event and give Dash the development he needs to be a greater hero and a better character. Think about it: Dash never really addresses the problems with his impulsiveness and rash decisions, not even the first movie touches on this. So in this movie, we along with Dash, can reassess how we feel about untrained children with awesome powers jumping into life and death situations and how badly innocent people can get hurt because of this choice. Is this the child's fault? Should they bench someone with powers so incredibly useful as super speed? Is Dash the problem or is his powers the problem? Is his impulsivity just part of his powers? Is he just doomed to be reckless forever? Will he always be a danger to others? How can he even begin to balance training with homework and running track? Should he attempt to balance all that or simply admit he doesn't have what it takes to be a hero? And most importantly, why does Dash want to be a superhero as opposed to anything else he could do to utilize his powers i.e. track and racing? And in the final act, all these questions can be answered, ending with Dash realizing why he wants to be a superhero and becoming much more methodical and careful with his powers. Thus, making him a better hero and strengthen the family as a superhero team, eliciting pride and joy in his father, THE Mr. Incredible. Dash could come out in the clutch at the very end of the climactic action, earning a "That's my boy" as opposed to Violet earning a "That's my girl" in the first movie. A neat callback that is carefully built up to as a satisfying payoff specifically for Dash's arc and Bob's relationship with his son. Plus, if you allow Dash to go through this trauma and grapple with it, you can use the development he went through with Violet in the first movie to establish how close they've become as siblings. How far they've come from the typical petty sibling stuff, how they lean on each other because they're the only super powered kids they know, because they know they've got each other's backs after the island attack. Also we'd be really touching on collateral damage instead of just barely touching it to kinda dress up the story, it's actually a core part of a main character's arc. And you could use the kids causing collateral damage be the reason why Helen is backtracking on letting them be superheroes. Instead of "things were different on the island", it would be "things are different because you're in need of training/you're not ready for saving innocent people. You were only allowed to fight the giant robot because we had no other choice but to include you since you were already in the thick of it. But now, in light of the people you've hospitalized, you're on the bench for now". And that's the important bit, *for now*. Not forever, not "you were wrong to act and save the city". Just "you aren't quite ready for the field, let's try and train you to be better". I dunno, at least it's a lot better than "hElP mE wItH tHe MaThS"
That sounds really smart. When I saw the part where dash moved the old lady out of the way of a falling car, I was sort of amazed that she was fine after such a rapid movement, given how fragile old ladies can be.
My least favorite part is not even about Bob or Helen lol. My least favorite part is that they stopped having a world of superheroes and suddenly had a world of mutants. Not the same thing. Everyone in the first movie was a human, and some of them had powers. Not everyone in the second movie was a human. It was a weird shift that hit me, personally, so hard that I immediately was removed from the world on the screen and didn’t really like the movie. The first one is maybe my favorite western animated movie. Mask of the Phantasm is pretty legit too. Edit: assuming this isn’t a one-off, I’m glad to have found a channel that still does long form videos.
Personally I quite enjoy long videos, long videos can allow more evidence to be given to a viewer and can give more points. With this you very well explained why you felt the way you did and it honestly makes you feel more authentic, thanks for this awesome video my dude.
The biggest flaw of Incredibles is that it was clearly intended to be a self-contained film, but they had to have the cliffhanger comic trope. The audience would have begged for a sequel regardless, but the hook raised the expectation to a ridiculous level. Not only was a sequel going to struggle to recapture the lightning in the bottle, but Underminer was never designed to be a good villain, making Jack Jack effectively a god was not the direction any writer planning to continue the story would have made.
I’m glad somebody thought the same thing as me. I always got the impression that the incredibles was one of those one off movies. Up until there were talks of a 2 I just assumed there was never gonna be a sequel
Me as well. I rolled my eyes for years at anyone saying the Underminer was a sequel hook (the tie-in sequel video games didn’t help lol) Haven’t these people ever heard of the “and the adventure continues” ending?
Never got a chance to play it, but apparently there was a video game where the Incredibles fought the Underminer right after the events of the first film that’s completely ignored and retconned by this opener. Guess Lightyear wasn’t the first in this area either?
You are absolutely correct my friend. In fact I had the game when I was a kid. I really wish they made the plot of that game the actual sequel plot. Rather than sneaking one of the soundtrack from the game, as an Easter egg.
I seriously prefer the plot from that game than the one they decided upon in this "sequel" Even my mom,who watched the original movie with me on the theather said she didn't like the movie at all and would rather have them not focus on Elastigirl and just do what the first movie did. The completely destroyed the characters of everyone and threw all logic and worldbuilding aside in order to push an idea that just didn't fit in the world as it was established in the first movie. I hate when people do that to their stories,because it just feels unecessary and pointless and shows that, as a storyteller, you are unable to focus on what made the story work and that you aren't able to comprehend the universe you yourself created. It shows that you just want to shoehorn in a thing into the sotry just because you find it "cool" or wanted to show a message through the story regardless of if it actually made sense or if it would fit with the whole context of the narrative. People nowadays think it's ok to just toss aside all logic and reasoning in order to put in stuff in their stories just because they found that idea to be cool, but if you are to make a decent story, you gotta work with what you have, and if an idea doesn't fit in the worl you created, tearing down all the world building you did just because of one concept or event isn't the right thing to do, you're basically throwing out all of your story and what made it original or good because of one simple thing that adds nothing to your work. That, to me, is what happened here, I recall people saying that at pixar, they usedto rewrite the stories multiple times before they got to the production phase, I do believe that they have just discarded this habit and it really shows, this movie feels more like a first draft of a story than a final product that was well thought out and thoroughly looked at to iron out any mistakes or inconsistencies. Altough a lot og people criticize the ROTU game for it's flaws, I still prefer that to this, The Incredibles is, and probably will always be my Favorite Super Hero movie! I'd rather them not do a second movie than do something like this and completely ruin the legacy of something that to me is the best super hero movie of all time.
You do NOT talk too long. I love how in depth you go. I listen to these video essays at work, I'm a metal finisher and I put my earphones in and listen to you destroy these writers for being so lazy. Don't listen to anybody complaining. They can turn the video off at anytime. Do not stop doing what you're doing and how you're doing it. It's fucking perfect.
I watched Kyle Kallgren's video on Cinemasins, and while it was a really good video, he dissed GamingMagic13's review of Toy Story 4 in a really confusing way, by saying "This guy complained about the first 10 minutes of Toy Story 4 for an hour. It's a performance art piece. We've found the Marina Abramović of TH-cam Movie Reviewers". Like, I'd be madder if I understood what you were even trying to say. How is an hour-long review of Toy Story 4 a "performance art piece?" And why is that a bad thing?
@@jeremyusreevu237 exactly. Like how is that hurting him? Nobody is making him watch it. I have all these kind of thoughts when I watch movies, so to have so much content to listen to is amazing. Like the whole point of a video essay is to go in depth and explain your points. Like wtf 😂
@@jeremyusreevu237 the more someone has to say, the longer it takes. it's not a hard concept. It's just a deflection tactic to try and defend sunk cost fallacy in things they care about for X reason . for Toy Story, it's nostalgia and holding Pixar up as the golden calf.
@@soulsearcher9620 I guess. It's just I never saw hour-long reviews as a bad thing. A lot of people I watch, like Caddicarus, Friendly Space Ninja, and Good Bad Or Bad Bad, make videos that are an hour or 2 hours long, and their long videos are pretty descriptive, fun, and entertaining, without any bad points. Same with watching some of GamingMagic13's longer videos, like his Toy Story 4 series, and his Top 10 Worst Video Games list (which was hilarious btw). The only long video I disagreed with him on is his Free Guy review, and that's only because it's a movie I like, but can still see why someone would take issue with. Plus, that doesn't explain why he called an hour-long review of Toy Story 4 a "performance art piece". Like, that doesn't make any kind of sense.
Thank you for saying exactly how I felt. The Incredibles is one of my favorite movies of all time. The way they fumbled the sequel is absolutely insane, and honestly would have been much better if there never was one.
I wish this movie had been a story about the family learning to fight together instead of whatever this mess was. Imagine getting an opening fight where they fumble with each other, trying to figure out how to make each power work together as one team. Watching them develop their powers with smaller villains and unraveling a deepening conspiracy about the return and rise of new supervillains. Watch them put the pieces together both of their teamwork and their incoming, new age enemies. Watch them bring in modern villain groups rather than one off solo acts. Imagine Violet learning how to do the force field slash after training with Frozone! Or seeing Helen teach Dash about momentum and movement in a battle. Like, there’s so much fun stuff that could happen with them learning how to teamwork. And you can still open with a team battle in the opening, albeit a fumbling and uncoordinated one. And then end with them taking out some lesser villain in a villainous syndicate who’s posing a threat, using their newly gained teamwork skills and ingenuity to win the day. And then leave us hoping for another with a hint at a larger, international or global threat. Give us that “with the return of heroes comes the return of evil” sort of plot. There were so many ways this movie could have been done better.
Yea it just didn’t have the same feel as the 1st. I did notice the inconsistencies at the beginning however the movie was fine to me. I actually forgot about most of the plot until I seen this video
BTW Violet Force Field Blades is another example of doing something risky and cool instead of something safer that you already know. Violet could have saved those citizens by just dropping a forcefield on them or dropping a forcefield around the rocks, no need to use an attack to explode the rocks and potentially send SHARPNEL on the people you're supposed to protect, its the same issue that the RC in TS4 had, they were so focused on the stunt they didnt think there were more practical ways of doing the task.(like Drop Buzz to take RC out of the gutter before pulling him back instead of doing whatever they did in TS4.)
i mean yeah just a forcefield blocking it would be , make more sense, she could do that risky when it makes sense he tries to be risky, clearly, like her confessing and then her getting more risky.
@@KaizerHiwatari Toy Story 4, Remote Control Car, stuck in the gutter, just bring Buzz Lightyear, the very strong toy, to take RC out of the water. instead of doing that convoluted "Operation pulltoy" using Slinky and the monkey barrel, and the porcelain doll to pull everyone back inside Molly's room.
I think the fact that there are quite literally a hundred lines from the first movie that my family quotes all the time is a testament to the sheer perfection of the writing in that movie. There's literally NOTHING quotable about the second film.
I honestly forgot all these lines and found them annoying when people quote them. And even then, five quotable lines against literal hundreds really is nothing
As someone who has a lot of the same opinions shared in this video, the thing that pissed me off the most was that the sequel received better ratings than the first movie on its release.
There was potential for a much more intriguing Deavor backstory. To set the scene. Winston's voice after he talks about how their father idolised the supers and reacted to them being made illegal: "He was heartbroken when you were all forced to go underground. Then the vultures saw the opportunity." His voices turns to hold hints of pride and anger. "They knew our father had publicly defended supers, even bailing them out of liability on multiple cases including your's Mr Incredible. They sued him, and slandered his name. He tried to fend them off but the damage was done." Winston's voice takes on a mournful tone. "After so much, our fathers health rapidly declined. He died 3 months after you were made illegal, a heartbroken and devastated man."
42:14 "Long video = bad video" I believe the exact opposite. I cannot tell you how excited I feel whenever I see a video essay longer than 15 minutes regardless of wether I like what the content is about. I am so glad that this video appeared in my recomended and am now preparing to binge your Toy Story 4 video.
As long as the video actually has something to say beyond nitpicking or rambling, it's length doesn't matter. A well thought analysis can either take you through a thought process step by step, or hit like a truck with a simple phrase. It's not the length, it's how you use it.
Everything with Bob just feels wrong, It just doesn’t feel right for bob to feel THIS flawed, he had flaws in the first film but they didn’t feel as bad and less uncomfortable feeling, genuinely Bob’s outbursts are truly hard to watch for me. Mr Fantastic from Marvel Comics is someone who has very clearly defined and constant character flaws, but everything about Reed makes him a Fascinating, Nuanced and Morally grey character. So when he does some of the pretty fucking bad shit he’s done, no matter how little or big, it Feels believable that Reed would do it, but with Bob, i don’t know, it just feels wrong
This. I genuinely cringed and squirmed in the theater during some of his scenes. The worst part is that I'm not even surprised they went in this direction with his character. I feel like Disney (including Marvel, Pixar, and Star Wars) have forgotten how to write good male (or female, look how they did with Mrs. Incredible in this movie) characters. I wish we could've gotten a completely different movie smh.
I like how nowadays Pixar sequels completely demolish strong, memorable characters, but give a mouthful of new abilities to everyone else (especially new characters) in the most ludicrous way I mean, I know the reason why, but the end rarely justifies the means Especially these grotesque
@@osmanyousif7849 this is a bit harsh I believe there is a way to create masterpieces again (just... don't let them make sequels, time has shown they are not capable keeping the story consistent)
1. Toy Story 2 and 3 are the exceptions to good Pixar continuations 2. Monsters University is decent as a prequel 3. Cars 2 is bad in a case of what bad a Pixar sequel can be 4. Incredibles II? is it on the same bad as Cars 2 or meh to the level of Monsters University?
@@Thomasmemoryscentral 1. "Nowadays" is a key word 2. "Nowadays" is a key word 3. Yes 4. In the middle... but because of some writing issues (caused by deadline) it slowly creeps towards cars 2 type of bad
Although... monster university could do the "nerf the ogs, but make new characters "cooler"" troupe Honestly, I don't remember But it has a prequel pass, since characters can mature from prequel to main animation
I'm only now finishing the intro and can I just say that your editing is amazing. Like the way you wrote the script and your delivery is already fantastic, but the way you align your words with fitting shots from the movie (like from 4:03-4:14 ) is a really entertaining touch. Super stoked to watch the rest of this
I'm very proud of you, your toy story reviews were one of the most entertaining videos I've seen in youtube, I'm from a latin american country and grew up watching animated movies; watching your videos not only make me value more the films that marked my childhood but also practice my english skills, thank you so much.
Amazing video as always. I would also like to add to the whole "it's just a kids movie" thing. Just because a movie is "kid-friendly" doesn't make it "a kids movie". For example The Incredibles is a pretty "kid-friendly" movie, but it's not made strictly for kids. There's aspects of the movie adults would enjoy much more than a kid, but a kid can watch it and get enjoyment from it too. So just because a movie is "kid-friendly", it doesn't mean it's made for kids.
They should make that an official category. Kid’s movies and kid *friendly* movies. Because there are too many people who think all kid’s movies are just dumb fun when there’s a lot of great stuff out there (including The Incredibles).
I too felt like Violet throwing her mask on the ground was incredible idiotic and out of character for her. We know she’s young and still has growing to do but that scene seemed way too extreme for her.
Thank you! I thought that was so out of character for her too especially when her mom gave tht speech about keeping ur ID safe on the island. Then she keeps going on a temper tantrum for an OOC thing they made her do
@@andrewgreeb916 Yeah, you'd think someone getting mad would maybe accidentally use their powers like when how some people get mad they'll hit something. Hell, you could even have the blast go somewhere near the guy hiding under the car, thus causing him to run away anyway and continue the plot.
About 3 months ago I watched Incredibles 2 for the first time and my dad started watching it with me soon after the movie began- sometime around the Underminer fight. I have no idea when was the last time he saw the first movie but I distinctly remember when Bob was getting folded, my dad was like “that…doesn’t make any sense” and we proceeded to make jokes about how the Underminer would basically become a stain on the drill interior in one second lol
Why is Helen so skeptical and cynical into thinking that saving the city was a mistake and that they’re kids are not “old enough” or capable of handling these type of situations when they’re the reason why they’re all alive!
I guess it's what happens when a sequel takes place immediately after the prior installment, but was actually made over a decade later--the WRITERS are thinking about things way later, way after the fact, forgetting that the CHARACTERS literally just had whatever experiences they just had, and aren't going to do total 180's or even develop doubts in those mere minutes.
you forgot to mention the REAL sequel to the Incredibles which is a video game called The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer. it takes place directly after the movie where mr. incredible and frozone team up to take down the underminer. Sadly the family does not get to appear much in the game it mostly leaves the heavy work to Mr. incredible and frozone
This video essay is too perfect and really clearly illustrates what I would NEVER be able to do. Forever, I have wanted to pick apart the 2nd movie and just haven't been able to on the level and to the degree you have. Kudos, truly. This is an incredible video. Thank you for making this!
Just wanted to thank you for having an entire section dedicated to nitpicks and "it's just a kid's movie" argument. It helped clear a lot of things for me, and I'm sure it did for other people as well!
@Brainfart studios 28 As an aspiring animator and writer who's written three short stories for kids so far, I detest that argument. Because I'll never understand why kids don't deserve quality content, especially when every generation has a set of classics that are celebrated. Basically we have a paradox of several generations of classics that have stood the test of time, yet at the same time we're not supposed to take kids' movies and cartoons "too seriously." WTF...?
@@DemonicRemption Anyone who makes that argument to me is either not a parent o r the kind of parent wo lets a tablet raise their children. Who in all good conscience willing believes that their kid doesn't deserve quality content but instead dumbed down stuff simply because "my kid is stupid". They have to have that thought process to make that argument to people.
They could've give Evelyn's name a small backstory. That she changed her name after her father's death because it's based on a superhero. Or her other gripe with heroes is because her father's declined mental health he can recall perfectly clear about superheroes but not about his children. Or/And their company almost got bankrupt if it weren't for her but her father still praises heroes because Evelyn used heroes technology to invent new technology. So in a way it is the opposite of villain's goal/mentality from the first movie.
Finally someone is tearing this movie apart. When I left the theater and everyone praised it, I thought I crazy in thinking it sucked. It feels like the first movie didn’t happen. So disappointing. But like you said in your Toy Story 4 review, I can’t really be mad at the people working on this film as it’s release date was suddenly moved up a year. I just pretend that it doesn’t exist just like with TS4
38:11 the baby Carrier would be a 100% better than the stroller and could bring Jack-Jack to be closer to the fight letting the family fight together again and even win so really affecting how this story could play out a little different and probably better
I remember talking to a colleague about ideas for this movie, and from the top of my head it should be about the parents learning how to deal with their kids growing up, becoming more independent and a less arrogant. I know it's a stretch, but I wish they could meet super heroes from all over the world in a competition or something. The message should be everyone has something to learn with each other because they're a big family. But nope! Incredibles 2 talks about women in charge? Matriachy? Men having no idea how to be a father? Wtf do the Incredibles have anything to do with this? It's horribly bad and boring. I remember Mr Incredible looked like the biggest loser ever, a complete needy idiot. So disappointing.
I actually wanna talk about the deavor backstory for a bit- and how I think this movie could have been improved. When I first saw the scene, and saw that the guy called the superhero’s when there was a bank robbery after they were made illegal, I thought the reason why they didn’t pick up was because they were killed by syndrome. I feel like that would be so much sadder if they didn’t pick up because they were dead, and not because they simply weren’t allowed to. This brings me to a point that I think should have been focused on more. Since so many of these superhero’s got murdered, why not try to focus on that part of it? Maybe have it be more existential and ask what’ll happen if they’re the last superhero’s? And to people who say like “woah, don’t you think that’s a bit dark for a family friendly movie?” Avatar the last airbender touched on this topic multiple times, and with several different characters. Hama being one of the last waterbenders of the southern tribe, the dragons almost being hunted to exctincyion, and of course, aang’s people and nations completely being wiped out. And the show was TV-Y7. Meaning it’s for 7 year olds.
It'd could even still feed into the plot, since because they weren't allowed to use their powers, none of the supers could help each other, leading to the Superhero genocide
I think Helen should have simply pointed out that Violet's powers are the most conductive to protecting Jack-Jack, and afterwards have the family form a plan as to what to do if in a battle and Jack-Jack is with them.
About Violet's New Move, I think there's one slight argument that could be made. While Incredibles 2 picks up immediately after the first movie, the Underminer attack was clearly 3 months after the Parr house blew up, as proven by the fact that when we get to the track meet scene at the end of the first movie, it says "3 Months Later." So maybe, just maybe Violet was practicing that new move during those 3 months.
I am amazed.....stunned at the amount of work that you put into this video. You have to be (hands down) the best Animation Editorialist on TH-cam (and I mean that!)!!
The firs time I watched the incredible 2, I felt like it was empty or lacking something. After watching the first one like 3 times to figure out why (not all at once), I came to realize it was because of the very human like struggles that the characters faced (mainly Bob). For the sequel, Helen just doesn’t do it as much for me. Even though not as intuitive as Bob’s first trail, in the sequel I find him a heck of a lot more entertaining than Helen. And like, 60-70% of the movie is about her. She doesn’t have as much as an emotional hook as bob, and thus makes me feel like I wasted time. That’s the main reason I find the sequel less memorable or thrilling.
Because women can do no bad in modern hollywood. Hence she was written with way too little human elements (aka flaws). There was no deeper conflict for her beside "being a hero vs family" - which was very quickly undermined after the train scene where she calls Bob and is super happy towards him about being a hero. Essentially there was almost no conflict to her character. And that little bit that was there was instantly resolved with "you go girl"
Well, in defense of the old suits being able to survive explosions, Bob old suit got slashed, yes, but Edna states it was made from MegaMesh and she was impressed that he managed to open such a large cut into it, so the suit is super resistant, and that cut did send alert Edna to Bob secret job, thats why she called Hellen, because in no way Bob suit got a cut that large just by him doing Normal day2day activities. Still unlikely that they managed tl rummnage their suits from all the debris tho.
The thing I hate the most besides spamming Jack-Jack and the lame, predictable villain is everyone's regression as a character. Violet: Goes from coming out of her shell, showing her full face and even taking the baton when Tony gets nervous asking her out. But then Tony forgets her and she's back to being a depressed sourpuss but with angry outbursts. It's like the first movie never happened. Dash: An essential part of defeating the Omnidroid and learning that he doesn't have to be the center of attention, is now Jack-Jack's babysitter who can't do math. Bob: Learns that his glory days as the most important guy in the room are done, and gladly embraces being the patriarch of an amazing family of talented people while becoming less self-absorbed. Now he and Helen switched places I guess and he's incredibly jealous of his wife to the point where he acts like a teenager who's upset that his girlfriend is better at baseball than he is. Helen: I can't say she's regressed as a character, she just switched roles with Bob. Neat I guess. I was expecting this movie to be later in time, like maybe Dash is a freshman Jack-Jack's like a third grader and Violet's in college and we can see how everyone's roles and opinions about being supers have evolved or changed. But nope we literally start right where the first movie leaves off and everyone's given an excuse to be the exact same character they were the first time. No lessons learned, no growth, no changes, just the exact same people we all know and love. Also, "She normally doesn't drip like this" - Mr. Incredible talking about his daughter to her crush. How did that line make it past everyone?
Actually, the stroller thing might actually not be a nitpick because could change the first act (partially) if Helen had the... baby backpack at all times. And probably make it a bit safer for Jackjack while the family is stopping a 3 story sized drill that is rampaging in the city.
21:40 - 21:57 Ironically, there's actually a deleted scene to explain how Lucius/Frozone manages to get there. It was basically a similar scene to scene when the Omni-droid attacks the city and the whole "WHERE'S MY SUPERSUIT?!?!" in the original. Except this time, the audience would get to see Lucius's wife. But Brad Bird claims that they chose to take it out because, "A. We stayed away from the big action scene TOO LONG and kill the momentum. And B. We believed that the off-camera-ness of not showing Lucius's wife was meant to be part of the joke." OK, so I could understand point B. But with point A, considering what you've pointed out in the past 10 minutes, I doubt any momentum was being killed. The creators could've simply had Lucius witness the attack and trying to get his suit and nothing would have been changed much. Edit: I hope in your next parts of your analysis, you bring in the director’s commentary like you did for Toy Story 4 to see if Brad Bird is turning into Josh Cooley.
As a person who LOVES running gags. It really is a shame to see that cut out for rather foolish reasons. It would also be another good scene in a terrible movie. At least we still have other drops of incredible in this film to look forward to.
Some people mentioned in his video on toy story 4 (at least one of the parts) that Brad Bird doesnt feel up to creating sequels and this 2018 sequel got made because Disney told him too
1:09:25 there may have been a detail I missed, but instead of having supers being illegal the explanation for the phone idea not working, why didn’t the writers have an interesting connection to the first movie by having the omnidroid and by extension syndrome being the reasoning for this plan failing, because deavor senior didn’t realize that gazerbeam and vironic were murdered by a giant killer robot? That way, him not knowing the phones wouldn’t work would make much more sense. Granted, the attitude of the robbers and the placement of the phones would still be a problem, but at least some level of continuity would’ve been preserved. The only problem is that I admittedly have no idea *when* the omnidroid killed them, so it’s possible that it happened after the illegality of supers. But given Edna’s cape rant which showcases the fact that supers dying did happen during the glory days, there’s definitely the possibility that it happened before (if there isn’t a confirmed time of their deaths that I forgot about).
I really wish they had ties underminer back into the story somehow and made him a supporting villain, with what seems like a measly bank robbery actually having much bigger implications than was originally assumed.
I, too, had a really big issue with what they did to the Underminer in this movie. I really thought he would’ve had a bigger part in this movie, working alongside the main villain. Oh how wrong I was. The very beginning let me down significantly, and know what it was really supposed to be like, because I’ve played the Rise Of The Underminer video game as a kid. I still love playing it to this day. All those robots and drills destroying the city was just awesome. And when I saw this movie, expecting to see what I saw in the game, I had never felt so unsatisfied in all of my life. It destroyed what I loved about the Underminer from my childhood. Let’s face it people; the game did it better than this film did
Thank you for this. I've been writing a personal analysis of this movie for awhile and hearing these things helps give me some perspective. The Incredibles is easily one of my favorite movies and the Incredibles 2 was the most disappointing piece of media I've ever encountered. So much potential and they just reset the character development across the board. It didn't look bad, it wasn't awful as a movie, but as the long awaited sequel to such a legitimately fantastic movie? Most disappointing thing I've ever seen. These kinds of videos are extremely cathartic. I watch everything that isn't music on 2x speed so the length of the videos has never bothered me. You do good work and I have distant dreams of someday creating media analysis... things.
Please encourage Gaming Magic Thirteen to do this: (please treat this like a letter to him) "I've seen some Sonic fans take a solid stab at reviewing Sonic X, yet I believe they're not as in-depth and lengthy as the videos you did on Toy Story 4 (no offence). So I really hope that you could take a good shot at reviewing all 78 episodes both sub and dub or whichever of the two versions suits you -the same way you did the Toy Story 4 videos (again, no offence)." "Many Sonic fans could learn loads of things from Gaming Magic 13 in this way! As Sonic would say: “It's the only way to live life without regrets!”🦔 Amelia Walker
I’m having a really hard week, and I wanted to say that this and your TS4 videos have helped me immeasurably. And I haven’t even seen either of the movies you’re talking about, so I’m just going “oh god no they didn’t really desecrate my beloved characters that way, DID THEY” right along with you. Thanks!!! I think.
36:05 - The most unexpected moment, but it had me laughing my head off because of how perfectly relevant it was both as a visual to tie to the movies you were discussing as well as the relevancy to the conversation that was actually being discussed. Bravo. 👏👏👏
Something that I believe is worth saying about the kind of "nitpicks" in TS4 is that, yes, movies will often use tricks and cuts to make some things run more smoothly etc etc, BUT doing it constantly non stop absolutely sets a tone on how the inner universe of the movie works, problems, distances and so on start to feel contrived and fake, manufactured, and the stakes feel much lower if things are just all the time edited to "suit" the moments of the movie, its harder to keep tension and investment if there is no real need for the toys to be clever and sneaky as they have their world having to remain hidden from the humans, which clearly was NOT a thing in Ts4, things have never mattered so little, everything was SO in the open it was absolutely jarring, pushing the suspension of disbelief SO far speaks miles about the care and attention put in the movie as well as the lazyness of the script and ALL that attention and care shows in the small details, in which things they are willing to bend or say "dont matter" to the audience, it sets a BLATANT tone when they are willing to change the basic structure of the house, fabrics of the dress, timings to solve problems "magically" on how much effort and care writters are putting into the franchise, and those details PILE UP, and they pile up FAST, a movie is a sum of it's parts and the end result shows how all those little things for SURE affect the world's consistency and immersion as a whole I remember a lot felt wrong while watching TS4 in the cinema, asides from the obvious character destruction and those major story points that I hated, but it was a constant feeling through it all, something wrong with the world and pacing but on that one viewing I wasnt able to pin point what it was exactly, not to mention I was distracted with all the other things going horribly wrong, but your video help me notice it was THOSE little "nitpicks" piling up, the botched timing of scenes lasting seconds here and there, the characters and props teleporting around non stop, the cheating at solving issues AND creating sudden conflict, it just PILES UP and it created an experience were things felt artificial and manufactured and weirdly paced and just.. wrong Also, kids are as deserving of good smart movies as adults, im sick and tired of people thinking so poorly of childrens media, what is this hate towards kids?? what is this disrespect to animation and family oriented stories? they can be wonderfully writtend and should be damn respected
"Also, kids are as deserving of good smart movies as adults, im sick and tired of people thinking so poorly of childrens media, what is this hate towards kids?? what is this disrespect to animation and family oriented stories? they can be wonderfully writtend and should be damn respected" Friggin, PREACH, Em! I 100% agree. Kids deserve to have quality entertainment, and the fact that there are people who think animation is only for kids, and that kids' movies and shows are awful by design is friggin disgusting. If you haven't seen it, I recommend checking out Dumbsville's video, "Why "It's Just a Kid's Movie" Doesn't Work", as it's a pretty effective condemnation of that way of thinking.
The thing that annoyed me the most is how long it took to open a WINDOW and then the Director(?) commenting in the scene where they get the key that "it has to be quick and funny"
As someone who adores animation, children deserve good stories and animation, screw this whole mentality of 'well its for children so who cares'? Children aren't as dumb as people think, so they shouldn't have to be subjected to dumb media just because they're young.
"Just because it's made for kids doesn't mean it has to be made stupid, because kids surely are not dumb" Pretty sure I quoted it wrong, but the point still stands ☝️
I wish it was possible to have remastered versions of older animated movies like this one, but with updated graphics like games. Although that isn’t really a thing it’s still a neat thought
For anyone asking "Where's Part 2?" please refer to this community post from 3 days ago:
th-cam.com/channels/f1OHsudbaKKF6zWf7rWoYg.htmlcommunity?lb=Ugkxc_0i4NfF8c-DuzFHUMj3CparR7JkWj44
Its okay, take your time with your video so it can be the best that it can be
I wish mobile devices could support community posts
Just say you didn’t like the film it’s simple..
You DON’T need fucking multiple parts to explain why it ruins the previous movie.
it doesn’t need to be a fucking hour long for the first 10 minutes of the film!!
@@alantheartist624 this is just what movie analyzers do. Schraffrilas Productions is someone else who does similar videos.
@@alantheartist624 ??
Here’s the thing: I’m not from an English speaking country so Evelyn’s name passed over my head. However it was still SO OBVIOUS that she was the villain that I was convinced she was actually NOT the villain, just the stereotype of the kinda weird person that you’re supposed to be suspicious of that turns out to be innocent.
Edit: i was also just lying to myself cause i had a crush on her and didnt want her to be evil
A "red herring". Yeah, she was clearly introduced as a twist villain by her first scene and look: the increasingly darker colours in her palette, her way to sit legs crossed mostly in the shadow... Off-topic: she's clearly a shaggier-haired carbon copy of Roxanne from Megamind.
Sadly, that would require Creativity, which Hollywood has been losing for the past decade
I remember watching Super Carlin Brothers make a prediction video and they instantly got her name and predicted her being the villain
@@delaneylipkin2194 Another SuperCarlinBrothers fan? A fellow person of culture.
Yeah for me Evelyn goes neck on neck with big hero 6 villain as the most obvious one scene "twist" villain.
"Are you really criticizing the logic in a silly-"
Yes.
Even Bugs Bunny has pretty consistent logic, despite being a cartoon who regularly defies real world logic.
If a setting decides one set of rules applies in the first episode, and then changes that expectation in the second, an explanation is required.
Right on. I really hate pretentious a**holes, who think people like GamingMagic13 and Mauler are nitpicking because they don't understand that internal logic is a thing.
The fact that you use bugs bunny as an example completely kills your credibility. You’re just making things up. Looney tunes isn’t even a world building heavy show. It was a sketch show 😂😂😂
@@timy9197 one thing you can kinda see is they'll run off a cliff and as long as they don't notice they're in the air they'll keep running forward
Ti My and now we have another one
@@timy9197 I think their point is that if even something as wacky as looney toons maintains it's internal logic, than something as serious as the Incredibles can do the same
Here's the thing. I never wanted to see their fight with the Under Miner. I had not expected a sequel given how the first movie ended, but I think picking up right where that one left off was a catastrophic mistake that subsequently held back the potential of a sequel. The Incredibles wasn't about the action, it was about the family dynamics, done to everyone's powers being a reflection of their role in the family. What they needed was a time skip like what happened with TS3. Allow them to have years of happiness culminating in new family dynamics to explore. A father son struggle where Mr. Incredible feels like he can't keep up with Dash, the new young face of modern Heroes. You could have Violet grown-up ready to leave her family and disappear into the bigger world. Jak-jak unsure of what direction to go as he's entering his teenage years, changing to fit in. And Helen trying to keep the family together. These are just bare bones thoughts, but the point is.... Incredibles 2 felt empty because it wasn't built on the core of the first.
Yes. It just felt like they wanted to continue the story but without thinking about what makes the Incredibles work.
Thank you.
Literally, just take the weird pizza guy angle they were obviously going for before they got addicted to twist villains and use him as the main bad guy with the same "screens are evil" motive. Maybe have him against their version of automatic pizza delivery or something.
Exactly this.
I had no problem with inc 2
@@sonicnetwork2944 did you even read the comment you replied to? He gives all the reasons Incredibles 2 was nothing compared to the first 1. It’s not even an opinion at this point. Incredibles 2 was atrocious compared to its predecessor. So many things in the second 1 just don’t make logical sense. It’s not a based experienced. It was inconsistent with the first 1 with all the characters personalities. Violet was annoying as Hell. Bob was clueless. Dash looked weird as Hell. Jack Jack was WAY too much in focus. We don’t care THAT much about a damn mumbling baby. It’s cute but the amount of air time was just ridiculous. The movie also felt almost like it was too self aware. And many characters behaved so differently than they did originally. It was just a huge disappointment.
The annoying thing about the underminer fight is that they could’ve made it a close battle without nerfing Mr Incredible into oblivion. They were underground, which would be the underminer’s area of expertise. He could have a network of tunnels and use the darkness to land a bunch of sucker punches on Bob, with Bob having to adapt to a very different environment
Sounds better than the wide tunnels with a open roof
How would the Underminer be able to see Bob?
@@SonicPlayer2004 He is a mole person, so something like smell or sensing vibration isn’t out of the question. They could also just give him night vision goggles since those would be very useful for someone who spends all their time underground
And on top of that, given that it's underground, the last thing he'd want to do is level the city by getting too intense -- the whole reason he had to STOP being a hero to begin with was because he wasn't able to prevent civilian casualties, even if people were only injured.
That's for sure. I mean the way you describe it has the suspense of a great battle. Mr. Incredible has the advantage on the surface while the Underminer has the advantage underground.
I never-Let me repeat. NEVER. Cared about the underminer plot at the end of the first film. To me that simply signified the fact that they would be fighting crime regularly as a family. The fact that they chose to start this plot right where the last one left off TEN YEARS LATER was such a let down when you know damn well they could have easily aged everyone and written an entirely new storyline from there!
Right, and it just makes it hard, because you have to actually continue the story immediately from that point--every character, every plot point, every object in the world, needs to be in exactly the same place. This is difficult to do when the first movie was a complete story, the arcs were all completed, etc.
YES! Thank you! He's not SUPPOSED to be an actual "next big villain"-he is written as a joke one-off character that signifies that the bad guys will always be out there, and that the Incredibles are now ready to fight them as a team. I hate that they continued with the fight against him in the second movie.
The fact that they undermined the ending of the first movie is so full of irony that it’s actually sad.
Very funny...
Undermined the Underminer. haha
Disney probably could never recreate another movie that I’d anything like the Incredibles
Hehe... Undermined... Irony....
That's some dirty comment you got going there.
Why I outta... Did you have to dig below the surface for that comment.
What bothered me the most about that scene of Winston picking Helen to be their representative was how selfish Bob was.
Even before his arc in Incredibles 1 he was always shown to love his wife, despite their differences. He would never get upset at her getting to be a superhero and WOULD NEVER insult her by insinuating that he's a better superhero than she is.
He would be more concerned about her safety or who will take care of the kids. Not that Helen is taking his glory from him.
Just like Disney is over correcting with Marvel, their normal films will suffer from the same. They feel the need to boost the female main character while also doing everything within their power to make the male main character as reprehensible or incompetent as possible.
@@qc6057 Exactly. It's all apart of the modern trend of male characters (especially established ones) having to be torn down in order for the female characters to step up and shine. Here's a question: Why can't they *both* shine?
Seriously. It's been done in the past, and it can be done again. I swear, mainstream creators are *constantly* moving backwards and it's incredibly (no pun intended) *frustrating!*
@@CoCoCo1212 The idea that a male character needs to be dumbed down in order for a female character to get somewhere is insulting. It’s not the “girlboss” fantasy they think it is. But Disney has this very shallow idea of what makes a female character “strong” or great now, so it doesn’t surprise me. It’s times like these when I miss characters like Mulan, Jasmine, or even Belle. Anna was a pretty decent character too, and none of these females characters needed a male character to be dumbed down.
The most recent film that did this well is Edge of Tomorrow: Live Die Repeat.
Watching the Tom Cruise and Emily Blunt character learn to work together to fight alien invaders is awesome.
@@Barnabas64 Friendly reminder to please read the original manga. It's quite different but still a great story :)
I think it's brilliant that Dash's and Violet's arcs in the first movie are the complete opposite of each other: he wants to be special and she wants to be normal. Not only that, their powers are paralels to their emotional state: Dash is impatient and reckless (superspeed) and Violet is shy, insecure and doesn't want to come out of her shell (invisibility and force fields).
Meanwhile in The Incredibles 2: Violet is sad because of a boy and Dash can't do math.
I just realized, how come everybody else (except for Jack Jack) has 1 power while Violet has 2
I most definitely could be wrong, but That’s just my thought process
@@8-Bitcrush I think Violet has 2 powers because shes based off the Fantastic Four's Invisible Woman who has the same powers.
@@8-Bitcrush i guess because Invisibility fits Violet's character more but she wouldn't have been able to have as cool action scenes as the others because that power isn't inherently impressive offensively? Dunno.
Well I guess you can argue for Dash that in the first movie, he’s shown to be slacking off, playing tricks on his teacher, instead of focusing in class. Especially since he’s shown to be doing this out of pettiness for his parents not letting him in sports.
@@osmanyousif7849 I can understand him, imagine being really good at something and your parents not letting you doing it. And Dash wanted to see how fast he could go, and pranking his teacher so fast that no one noticed him was his way of testing his limits.
The thing I was most excited about while watching Incredibles 2 is going home and watching the original
"Did you stop the Underminer from inflicting more damage?"
"YES."
"The banks were insured"
"That literally has nothing to do with the thousands of lives that would've been lost without the Incredibles' help"
"If you had simply done nothing-"
"Everybody would be dead. Next stupid argument?"
LITERALLY
What an *Incredible* idea: To come down with bad writing *Syndrome* to *Undermine* the fans' expectations!!
Banks are never insured from giant drill machines. Insurance lawyers never lose and that money is not coming back.
@@funveeable: I agree with everything, *Except* "Insurance Lawyers Never Lose". *1)* They lost their *Humanity,* considering how they manipulate people and the damage they cause! *2)* I *guaran-f***ing-tee* you they'd lose this case - *Because of lack of insurance from drills and explosives - SO hard,* you honestly have to wonder where the *WORLDWIDE* broadcast is of that case essentially ending all insurance lawyers' & companies' careers *For-eh-ver!!*
Not going to lie, the points he made here were inaccurate.
The entire reason the drill was on the surface in the first place was that Mr Incredible confronted Underminer and forced him to abandon his drill. Mr Incredible then promptly broke the controls, unintentionally causing the entire machine to surface and plow through the city.
So while in a meta sense, yes, the police are actually right on this one. If Bob did nothing, the Underminer would have just fled downward via his drill. The Underminer did not intend for that destruction to happen at all.
However, the actual issue here is how would the police have known it was them who caused the drill to surface for this accusation. I suppose you could argue eyewitnesses saw Mr Incredible emerge from the drill and informed the police, but we're writing the script for them at that point.
All Incredibles 2 did was make us realize how much of a masterpiece The Incredibles really was.
We already knew that though, the first movie is one of the highest regarded pieces of animation in history and was long since heralded as a legendary masterpiece far before 2 was even announced.
2 did jack sh##
And make us understand that making a sequel 15 years later to an animated movie is a bad idea.
@@_-Lx-_ Yes, yes we did. But Incredibles 2 made us appreciate how much of a masterpiece THE Incredibles is even more than we ever have. That’s the memo here.
@@the_sam_strong nah
26:29 i detect alphabet lore
My dad's favorite movie of all time is The Incredibles, no joke. He's almost 70, and probably watched it like, 40 times or something now. Drives my mom absolutely crazy cause she's sick of it (as much as she still really enjoys it too). It's got everything he could want- good family themes, subtle-but-important conflicts, a happy and hopeful ending, fun action, and great messages all-around. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It's nigh perfect, and he loves it for it.
I've never heard him talk about The Incredibles 2 once, despite him seeing it opening night.
This comment speaks volumes.
Welp. There ya go.
Ain’t no way i could watch it that many times. It’s really not that deep lol space jam yea i could understand because bugs bunny
I’m so sorry for your dad. Imagine looking forward to this after being such a fan of the original for FOURTEEN YEARS and it comes out and is an actual dumpster fire… It’s sad man. It’s really sad.
My stepfather
Bob's character assassination reminds me of how they treated Homer and Peter over the years. Please stop writing father characters this way, it hurts to see good characters suddenly become selfish and self centered for no reason.
no shit hollywood hates fathers since they are a symbol of "toxic masculinity"
If you want to see a positive portrayl of fathers, watch Riots' series 'Arcane'. So perfect!
Who will win a battle?
ANY battle for that matter (including battles of physical strength)?
Bob in Incredibles 2 or everyone else?
I think the latter.
Idk if Peter was ever a good father but yeah Homer used to be a Good but “dumb” dad but definitely a loving one
Loki, dr strange, Thor, The list goes on and they are tied to one company. It’s propaganda. “See her to be her”
The title should have been, “how Incredibles II UNDERMINED everything!”
Even if their house and belongings were destroyed, what happened to Bob's TRIPLED ANNUAL SALARY he was making? Did he store it in the house?
I think it's weirder that Bob doesn't insure their tiny house when he literally works for an insurance company and knows the loophole for it
@@good__person ...That is an EXCELLENT point to bring up.
Why wasn't their house insured?
ESPECIALLY with super children running around inside it?
Shhhh, dont think about that guys, just consume product
@@Mr_Vosakisen Oh yeah, I almost forgot to consume product
At least before the second movie, I always assumed that by the end of the first movie, the family had moved into a new house and were able to return to a mostly normal life.
This movie was quite the evil endeavour. I can’t believe they completely undermined the original. It’s honestly pretty incredible
Coincidence? I think NOT
You really dashed to create these incredibly stretched excuses of puns. Made my face turn a shade of violet from embarrassment.
@@GamingMagic13 Wow. I can’t believe you really woke up and chose Violets.
You seriously need to take this movie with a dash of salt. This video’s runtime is way too stretched out. Especially considering you’re criticizing a children’s movie smh. You’re arguments weren’t even that strong, you sped through everything, and you’re just force-fielding yourself from criticism.
Unless you somehow aren’t, but that would be a stretch.
I love these puns, they make me feel incredibly happy.
I love how strong all these puns are. None of them are too much of a stretch. Whoever makes the next pun, FREEZE!
right away i was shocked that violet took off her mask, whatever happened to "your identity is your most valuable possession, protect it"
She had no real reason to do so, but the plot god demanded it.
Because she was angy, and apparently being more assertive also makes you more stupid
Anyone else notice how sometime when he says a word, the footage will show the characters doing that thing? Like when he says 'And they fumbled the ball completely ', you can see Helen fumbling the phone in the background. Now that is true dedication.
he does a great job of selecting video to represent his text
Yes. I thought that was hilarious and clever every time
Yep, it's good editing. So many "video essays" with just have random clips or game footage playing in the background, so I appreciate when someone takes the time to show clips that provide proper context.
Honestly, this guy reminds me a lot of Mauler. I'm interested to see more of his content.
The editing is top notch. It's the same idea that MauLer uses whenever he makes an entry into the Unbridled series
I absolutely adore that type of editing. Small, yet greatly appreciated details that add so much to the viewing experience. Infinitely better than the over-edited garbage era we live in.
One of the biggest issues I take with a lot of Pixar sequels is retreading story beats while foregoing continuity for plot reasons. They don't tell a new story, they just insult the original one.
Except Toy Story 2, Cars 2, Toy Story 3, Finding Dory, and Cars 3
@@pranavrao6370 Yes
@@pranavrao6370 Agreed
19:11 You know, when you mention Bob accidentally broke the control panel. I just realize, that even in the direst situation, Bob is still very calculating. When Syndrome kidnaps Jack Jack, his own son, he doesn't just try to throw something because it might hurt Jack Jack, even when Helen persuades him to do something. Only after Jack Jack has been saved, he does do something, throw his car and end Syndrome. This kinda makes me wonder if he ever kills or essentially puts the villain in the hospital for a very long time.
I mean, a punch from him can probably instantly KO a villain if well placed. But I think in the prime of his Superhero days he did try not to kill.
However, at the same time, in the first movie when he threw the railcar at those 2 guards... Yeah they're dead. There's an argument either way.
he almost killed his boss
@@donnythedingo To be fair, Bob had a lot a rage building up all those potential years. The throw through the wall wasn’t just for the prevention of a wallet stealing, it was payback for everything the boss put him through.
Some people deserve death so it would make sense if he's done it.
@@BabyGhast4 and he also couldn't save someone that was getting mugged nearby. You could see him getting angry because he can't do anything to help them.
Basically this movie: You should do nothing and just let people get hurt because the banks are insured.
Same logic in Man of Steel. Clark: "What was I supposed to do? Just let 'em die?" Pa Kent: "Maybe."
The government in a nutshell
@@EUMAN10God I hated that. That was not Pa Kent. That movie was utter garbage.
1:09:55 Bob was actually very familiar with Gazer Beam considering he was at Bob's wedding which was a secret wedding, so you would assume all the people that were there are very close friends, which would explain Bob's reacting in seeing Gazer Beam's corpse in the first movie.
There's a deleted scene where bob speaks at Gazerbeam's funeral, Bob intoduced him to superhero work and was good friends with him
My biggest peeve i have with this movie is Hellen doing basically what her husband did in the first movi e and No One Sees History Repeating Itself. Its almost like what if they made a sequel to Wreck it Ralph where Vanelope's new dream is to go Turbo.
The fact that Helen even referenced it is even more disgusting.
Well, Vanellope did actually go Turbo in the sequel, so...
@@EugenioScamardella thats the joke.
@@NarfIarg don't worry, I did get it ahah.
Haha,, yeah,, “if”
I believe the biggest killer of this movie was its conception. The movie was produced years after the original, and within that time society changed greatly. That plus I believe incredibles 2 was made solely off of fans wanting it. That within itself took away the potentially organicness of a sequel. I notice that a lot of projects that are brought to life because of fans either is a disappointment or cash grab
Yep goes to show people can't leave a good thing well enough alone. Star Wars is another example. People wanted more movies. They got them. Now the legacy is diminished
I feel like the only sequel that came about from fans wanting it was Aliens, which, to my understanding, came about because James Cameron wanted a sequel to the original.
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Uh, the only Star Wars movies arguably made for fans was Empire Strikes Back, which is fantastic, and Return of the Jedi, which is okay. The prequels were made for Lucas himself, and the sequels were made as cash grabs. Star Wars is the exact opposite of an example.
That's the thing about sequels, it's a hit or miss. Had the Incredible sequels been released in the time spots of the Car sequels they might have been great.
@@normadgarmez7026 same thing I felt when I heard 2 was being announced. At the time I was already content with the first being a stand alone hit, however I was willingly to give it a chance cause there are plenty of good sequels that I’ve seen
1:05:58 One point to make: it is implied in the first Incredibles that Bob's original Mr. Incredible suit is not made of ordinary material, as Edna immediately infers that Bob has been moonlighting hero work because of the fact that he managed to get it damaged. It doesn't *entirely* excuse the fact that both Bob and Helen's classic suits survived their home's destruction, but it is evidence that their supersuits have always been more durable than standard spandex, especially given that if they weren't exceptionally durable, Bob's suit would have suffered some significant damage in the first film's introductory scene from the friction of shaking that tree alone.
It's very sad to imagine someone dismissing this analysis and saying "it's just a movie".
Any fictional media deserves respect and close attention, because that's how it improves.
It's imbuing meaning to something that is really just smoke and magic and on some level is just entertainment, but it could be more.
Exactly
Not to mention "it's just a movie" happens to mean,
It's only the result of thousands of man hours of labor
It's only the livelihoods of hundreds of families
It's only the cost of several million dollar
I think everyone can agree, it would be nice if all that could have been used to make an actually good piece of entertainment.
@@theirDevil the incredibles 2 is good
BUT at the same time, you can acknowledge the valid points made against it and still like it.
But yeah, The Incredibles 2 is incredibly mid.
Fun is not something one considers when performing media autopsies. But this, does put a smile on my face.
It wasn't even that bad
@@reggielacey2235 Your right it's not bad, if this movie was a standalone movie that is. But the thing is, this movie is a sequel to one of the most critically acclaimed Pixar movie. People are going to judge it as a sequel to something special and this movie compared to the first one it doesn't hold up lol...
ADoseOfBuckley makes Musical Autopsies fun as hell. Maybe it's cathartic, since pop music is so shit 🤣
@@Player-dw3pe just because they it didn't like ve up to your standards doesn't means it's a bad sequel
@@alexvaughan1013 pop music isn't shit
The big issue with the opening sequence is how "obligatory" it feels. Much like Back to the Future Part 2, they're just doing whatever they can to resolve the hook the last movie left so they can move on to tell their main story. But at least BTTF had a whole act dedicated to it, instead of just a prologue.
You could time jump if it didn't fit, it's a workaround.
Back to the future didn't have such problems, in fact it was "one" script for all three movies, every single detail was calculated, even seemingly insignificant things.
Whatever the case, the first one was written as a standalone, so even if it flopped, it wouldn't leave too much hanging.
And when the second movie follows up on the hook of the first, going to the future actually has a significant role in kick-starting the plot, when Marty considers the idea of bringing a sports almanac back with him and Biff actually goes through with it.
@@Mr.Heller Sorry but no, BTTF was supposed to be a one-and-done thing, that's why Jennifer goes to the future with Marty. I'm gonna try to find the clip where Robert Zemeckiz stated that they didn't really know what to do with her in the follow-up movie because like I said BTTF was conceived as a one-and-done project. Now BTTF 2 and 3 were actually made pretty much at the same time, so they wouldn't have a similar issue (that's my guess).
Edit: th-cam.com/video/aoEQmgDWF4Q/w-d-xo.html (here it is)
At least BTTF2 was actually enjoyable and memorable unlike Incredibles 2 and Ghostbusters 2.
Incredibles 2 should have been an exploration of whether or not Syndrome was right
(and/or a scenario where his super-tech gets leaked to the public)
"Continuity isn't a thing anymore" is the perfect synopsis of modern Hollywood.
for real man
The Underminer just got a BIG W!
1. He declared War on Happiness and Joy and got no consequences.
2. He got rich.
3. Beats up the one and only Mr. Incredible at Hand To Hand combat.
4. Escape freely with all the city’s cash and nothing bad happens to the underminer.
He really did get away with everything, absolute W
Who will stand up for Happiness now?
What does "W" mean?
@@drewbug93 "Win"
@@tonyknighton4019 K thank you
First movie Mr. Incredible: He can throw a giant robot with no problem
Second movie Mr. Incredible: A moleman kicks his ass, he only can defeat a super as strong as him with help, can't smash some tubes that obstruct his way
Bob didn't throw a giant robot with ease
@@richadoruisuthegod3674 On the jungle, he was able to punch the omnidroid and toss him a certain distance away from him and on the city he could stop him from crushing his kids and later tackle him with no problem
Don't forget that Bob can uproot a giant tree like it's a tiny garden stake
It is not possible that Brick is anywhere close to the strength of Mr Incredible because she would have been dead since making an Omni droid as strong as Bob was very important to Syndromes plan
@@richadoruisuthegod3674 You're right. He punched it with ease. When he wasn't even in his physical prime, I may add.
Personally, I think the movie should have started a year or two after the first one ended. Maybe reference the Underminer fight, but not begin with it. This movie could have benefitted with a small time jump. I also think that Screenslaver had potential to be a good villain but they dropped the ball. The scene at the apartment was awesome and they could have expanded on it in more interesting ways.
Was literally just thinking this, did not actually expect them to continue directly from the underminer but i feel a big part of why they did that is because of jack jack jokes 🤦🏿♂️
nah, this fight just had to be on a truly epic scale, and for the right reasons. It would've started the movie on an 'incredible' high. And if they could follow that, the movie would've been a masterpiece
Like starting ROTS with that epic space battle to ship boarding to duel to rescue of Palpatine, to 'another happy landing.' Something like that; truly epic
I would argue that Screenslaver was always doomed to failure as a hamfisted stereotype of "kids today and their phones! Social media sucks amiright?"
Start the movie with (a differently choreographed) Underminder fight so we can get the satisfaction of seeing that after all the years of build up. Then, have the rich mf find them based on his connections from working with Mr. D and seeing their fight with the robot on TV (it took time because surprise-surprise, it's hard to find supers through a government program). I think it'd be much better for pacing while keeping some sense to what's established.
that was what I was thinking, a time skip would been the way to go and deluge into new struggles the family have to get through as Superheroes
like Maybe Violet struggling with juggling her responsibilities with hero work and normal life that it stresses her out to the point it puts a strain on her
[her renouncing superheroes would of been a big thing as it mirrors back to how she wants to be normal in which case it be like Spider Man 2 where Peter Parker mentally shuts her powers off wanting to be normal and not bearing anymore the weight of responsibility which was costing her time with Tony and the ordinary mundane life only when something bad happens and Tony gets caught in it that she must accept her role as a superhero while maybe coming to the big decision that she must let go of Tony as she doesn't want the mental baggage and strain her role has put on both of them throughout the movie [it be a tearful moment for her as she is letting go of someone she wants to be with even though she still has her heart set on him which in turn means letting go of the thing she sought for which is being just a normal human being. Maybe Tony makes his own choice and decides to still want to be with Violet despite the difficulties the two will face in short Violet finds herself someone who is willing to go the distances with her despite difficulties they will face].
Heck maybe Dash gotten rebellious over time and starting to go the same way Dick Greyson went as he got older and not wanting to be in Batman's shadow as Robin which leads to a period of estrangement and resentment between father and son much to Helen's distress and Bob regretting what he did to lead to his own son to hate him now and trying to make amends to no avail till some point in the movie the two must make up and put what happened to them behind them in order for unity to happen again in the family/ Superhero team.
Helen doesn't really need much of an arc but rather she be the one to play an important role in the whole Dash Bob conflict and helping Violet in her own personal struggle, who knows maybe now that she is getting older and isn't as good as she was in the during her "top of her game" time and the events and in between of the first film when the family were together, her role as a damsel in distress is the reason to lead both father and son to set aside whatever pains that has now walled their bond to unify and save a love one from death
as for Jack Jack, he is still a Superhero in training with some control of his power. maybe he will act as Helen's support and rock to hold her up on her own journey and quest to try to keep the family together.
that is what I think the sequel should been, if Pixar aged up Andy in Toy Story 3 why not with the Parr family.
I love listening to people talk so passionately, it's so good :p
Also, Mr Incredible is getting Superman writing, where he's precisely as strong as the writers need him to be at that very moment in time, where sometimes he can lift earth one handed with ease, sometimes he struggles to lift a rock half the size of his body.
They do that with Superman? I guess that's what happens when you have multiple writers doing something.
As a parody of Superman, Wordgirl is the same way. She can destroy a giant robot with ease (most of the time, anyway) but gets defeated when The Butcher buries her in an avalanche of meat.
I like how you actually mention how it makes no sense that many witnesses can testify that the Incredibles family saved people and prevented destruction and not caused the destruction as the police were trying to imply at the beginning of the movie.
My biggest problem with it is how much Bob is so selfish and incompetent as a father even though in the first movie it was the total opposite. My second biggest problem is how useless the kids are, I really thought they were gonna be the main focus of this movie and Jak Jak kinda is but is mostly used for laughs and Hellen I love her I really do but she did not deserve to be the main character of the movie in my opinion not that it’s her fault she’s still one of my personal favorite.
Dash was completely left in the dust compared to first one. Guy was the one who protected his sister from other mercenaries by luring them away and then took them all out by using terrain to his advantage, all while only running. Meanwhile Dash in sequel is stoned when facing other super heroes even though he could have took out some of them by himself even without Violett or Frozone just for the fact how fast he is.
I feel this. I wanted more of the family working together like in the jungle in the first movie. Not this :(
i though when movie was coming out it would focus on parents try to explain to kids about adult world with heroes being illegal and what not. like they stop a villain or something and while parents what to bail from eyes, kids want to show off before world. a growing up theme of movie but instead we got two steps back
Still not as bad as Bo Peep in TS4 or Mushu in Mulan 2
Think this would be better
th-cam.com/video/Qsk59APfmj0/w-d-xo.html ?
Fun fact about the original Incredibles: Supers were able to get sued during the prologue of the movie because the good samaritan law wasn't in the same effect as today. Matpat from film theory video call "can you sue a superhero" goes into much more detail about this but long story short the original went the extra mile to place it during the only time it could of to make any legal sense.
And yet the Second movie, even though it's set directly after the first movie, seems to have fast forward like 40-50 years
How can you sue a superhero, when you don't know who they are?
@@ntfoperative9432 yeah I noticed that too. What a whiplash that gave me
@@prufan supers were on government payroll in this universe
THHHHAATS just a theory… a F I L M THEORY.
When Disney bought Pixar I talked to a friend about how long we guess it would take until Pixar loses its magic and their movies become mediocre. Incredibles 2 and Toy Story 4 answered those questions very clearly.
That’s two movies out of like 20. And this just seems like you’re picking the two sequels that were made out of properties you grew up with after you were no longer a kid. Of course those are the ones you would pick.
@@timy9197 Light Year seems to be bad, Luca seems mediocre, Turning Red is weird, Incredibles 2, Toy story 4. Not the best streak.
But recently-ish we also got Coco, maybe Soul (I'm not sure how to judge Soul exactly yet), Onward (I think it's pretty good). Personally right now, I think Coco is the strongest out of those.
Also, both of those were sequels that the original movies came out years ago. I think the real link is that Disney is bad at sequels.
When Disney bought Pixar I thought it would suck too - and for the first half of the buyout the red flags hadn't popped up yet for me until Brave. After that their movies went on a slow, steady trail toward declining.
Cars 2 is when they lost it, Inc 2 and TS4 is when that magic ceased to exist
@@eatatjoes6751 I don’t blame Disney for Pixar’s movies going on a decline. Even if Disney hadn’t bought them I’m pretty sure we still probably would’ve gotten their more mediocre to bad movies anyway.
I remember going to the theater with my younger sister to see this and we were both left incredibly confused. The whole time we were laughing at the bad plot holes and how so many things were never getting answered. For example, we immediately talked about how The Underminer just....escapes, and NOBODY ever mentions it ever again in the plot, or how every character's motivations just flip to an instant 180* for "reasons" that just ruins how this was supposed to be like a week after the events of the first movie.
Actually, one of the nitpicks you mentioned could have changed the story. If Violet didn’t have a stroller for Jack Jack, she would’ve had to hold him in her arms, which likely would have prevented her from throwing her mask down, causing the entire “arc” of her character throughout the movie to be nonexistent
So... basically, because of a continuity error, a stupid "character arc" exists for no reason. 🙄
I guess she could have held him one handed/in one arm while taking off then throwing the mask but......who wants to go through that effort or risk dropping their infant brother?
I'll never forget Brad Bird saying he'd only make an Incredibles sequel if he had a really good idea. I don't know what Disney did to have him turn this but this is what we got. Especielly when the other idea I heard about Incredibles sequels while nothing crazy at least didn't retcon Supers being illegal.
they forced his hand and pixar itself is now disney's slave, churning out sequels and crap on command.
they have lost most of their original talent to other studios and only make new movies once every few years. it's sad, really.
Money
I will never understand how the incredible 2 video game from 2005 or something handled this so much better
Rise of the Underminer is the true sequel!
You know what this video is making me realize? The kids' arc (or at least Dash's) in this movie should have been focused on collateral damage. Think about it: in that opening action scene, he's rushing to save people from debris. But what if, in a moment that could be reminiscent of A-Train from The Boys, he rushes to save someone, but with his super speed gives them whiplash? Or dislocates a wrist that he yanks on to rescue someone from debris? Immediately, he'll be ripped from the high of getting to participate in superheroics down to the reality of what happens when someone with super speed doesn't have complete control and restraint of that overwhelming power? Dash would then have to grapple with his desire to be a superhero and use his great powers and the damage he can easily do to innocent people.
This can be something he can dwell on and retreat into himself a bit because of it, he could even visit the people he accidentally damaged. Guilt ridden, traumatized, demoralized, etc. He could even come to a realization that making superheroes illegal made sense and was for the best. He could devolve into a (kinda) self hating super for a second, think about how powerful that would be for Dash. The kid that was giddy when he asked "As fast as I can?!" when his mother finally told him it was okay for him to unleash his full powers. The kid that was excited beyond belief that someone thought enough about him to create a specially made suit for him to unleash his unique powers. The kid that was geeking out in the car after the adventure was over and flailing all over the place about how much he loves being part of a superhero family. Only to have him realistically devolve into the state of mind that superheroes are dangerous and were better off in hiding. He should have remained in hiding. He doesn't deserve to be a superhero, he doesn't deserve his powers, he doesn't deserve to be incredible.
Then Bob could notice this change in his son's behavior and finally he can have a scene with Dash that would mirror the scene Helen had with Violet in the first movie. Bob can explain that the reason heroes were banned in the first place began with him saving someone and accidentally hurting them. We can finally get some introspection on that moment in his life, that time period in this world, Bob's development shining through as he gives Dash whatever wisdom he needs to get past this traumatic event and give Dash the development he needs to be a greater hero and a better character.
Think about it: Dash never really addresses the problems with his impulsiveness and rash decisions, not even the first movie touches on this. So in this movie, we along with Dash, can reassess how we feel about untrained children with awesome powers jumping into life and death situations and how badly innocent people can get hurt because of this choice. Is this the child's fault? Should they bench someone with powers so incredibly useful as super speed? Is Dash the problem or is his powers the problem? Is his impulsivity just part of his powers? Is he just doomed to be reckless forever? Will he always be a danger to others? How can he even begin to balance training with homework and running track? Should he attempt to balance all that or simply admit he doesn't have what it takes to be a hero? And most importantly, why does Dash want to be a superhero as opposed to anything else he could do to utilize his powers i.e. track and racing? And in the final act, all these questions can be answered, ending with Dash realizing why he wants to be a superhero and becoming much more methodical and careful with his powers. Thus, making him a better hero and strengthen the family as a superhero team, eliciting pride and joy in his father, THE Mr. Incredible. Dash could come out in the clutch at the very end of the climactic action, earning a "That's my boy" as opposed to Violet earning a "That's my girl" in the first movie. A neat callback that is carefully built up to as a satisfying payoff specifically for Dash's arc and Bob's relationship with his son.
Plus, if you allow Dash to go through this trauma and grapple with it, you can use the development he went through with Violet in the first movie to establish how close they've become as siblings. How far they've come from the typical petty sibling stuff, how they lean on each other because they're the only super powered kids they know, because they know they've got each other's backs after the island attack. Also we'd be really touching on collateral damage instead of just barely touching it to kinda dress up the story, it's actually a core part of a main character's arc. And you could use the kids causing collateral damage be the reason why Helen is backtracking on letting them be superheroes. Instead of "things were different on the island", it would be "things are different because you're in need of training/you're not ready for saving innocent people. You were only allowed to fight the giant robot because we had no other choice but to include you since you were already in the thick of it. But now, in light of the people you've hospitalized, you're on the bench for now". And that's the important bit, *for now*. Not forever, not "you were wrong to act and save the city". Just "you aren't quite ready for the field, let's try and train you to be better".
I dunno, at least it's a lot better than "hElP mE wItH tHe MaThS"
I like this version of the movie much MUCH more than what we ended up with. In fact, it makes me sad we didn't get this story.
That sounds really smart. When I saw the part where dash moved the old lady out of the way of a falling car, I was sort of amazed that she was fine after such a rapid movement, given how fragile old ladies can be.
This would have been excellent writing for Dash. Just makes me sad reading this thinking about how the sequel could have been so much more
You should be a writer, this would have been so much better to see than what we got, man this movie is disappointing especially after reading this
Wonderful
My least favorite part is not even about Bob or Helen lol. My least favorite part is that they stopped having a world of superheroes and suddenly had a world of mutants. Not the same thing. Everyone in the first movie was a human, and some of them had powers. Not everyone in the second movie was a human. It was a weird shift that hit me, personally, so hard that I immediately was removed from the world on the screen and didn’t really like the movie. The first one is maybe my favorite western animated movie. Mask of the Phantasm is pretty legit too.
Edit: assuming this isn’t a one-off, I’m glad to have found a channel that still does long form videos.
That's a good point. There's a huge difference.
Personally I quite enjoy long videos, long videos can allow more evidence to be given to a viewer and can give more points. With this you very well explained why you felt the way you did and it honestly makes you feel more authentic, thanks for this awesome video my dude.
The biggest flaw of Incredibles is that it was clearly intended to be a self-contained film, but they had to have the cliffhanger comic trope. The audience would have begged for a sequel regardless, but the hook raised the expectation to a ridiculous level. Not only was a sequel going to struggle to recapture the lightning in the bottle, but Underminer was never designed to be a good villain, making Jack Jack effectively a god was not the direction any writer planning to continue the story would have made.
I’m glad somebody thought the same thing as me. I always got the impression that the incredibles was one of those one off movies. Up until there were talks of a 2 I just assumed there was never gonna be a sequel
Me as well. I rolled my eyes for years at anyone saying the Underminer was a sequel hook (the tie-in sequel video games didn’t help lol)
Haven’t these people ever heard of the “and the adventure continues” ending?
I really hate that the end of the first movie has that cliffhanger now because the rewatch value is diminished because of this piece of junk.
Never got a chance to play it, but apparently there was a video game where the Incredibles fought the Underminer right after the events of the first film that’s completely ignored and retconned by this opener.
Guess Lightyear wasn’t the first in this area either?
You are absolutely correct my friend. In fact I had the game when I was a kid. I really wish they made the plot of that game the actual sequel plot. Rather than sneaking one of the soundtrack from the game, as an Easter egg.
Yeah, that's right. I remember when they announced this movie I though they'd adapt the plot of the game in some way.
I remember that game, had it on my DS
Rise of the underminer!
I seriously prefer the plot from that game than the one they decided upon in this "sequel"
Even my mom,who watched the original movie with me on the theather said she didn't like the movie at all and would rather have them not focus on Elastigirl and just do what the first movie did.
The completely destroyed the characters of everyone and threw all logic and worldbuilding aside in order to push an idea that just didn't fit in the world as it was established in the first movie.
I hate when people do that to their stories,because it just feels unecessary and pointless and shows that, as a storyteller, you are unable to focus on what made the story work and that you aren't able to comprehend the universe you yourself created. It shows that you just want to shoehorn in a thing into the sotry just because you find it "cool" or wanted to show a message through the story regardless of if it actually made sense or if it would fit with the whole context of the narrative.
People nowadays think it's ok to just toss aside all logic and reasoning in order to put in stuff in their stories just because they found that idea to be cool, but if you are to make a decent story, you gotta work with what you have, and if an idea doesn't fit in the worl you created, tearing down all the world building you did just because of one concept or event isn't the right thing to do, you're basically throwing out all of your story and what made it original or good because of one simple thing that adds nothing to your work. That, to me, is what happened here, I recall people saying that at pixar, they usedto rewrite the stories multiple times before they got to the production phase, I do believe that they have just discarded this habit and it really shows, this movie feels more like a first draft of a story than a final product that was well thought out and thoroughly looked at to iron out any mistakes or inconsistencies.
Altough a lot og people criticize the ROTU game for it's flaws, I still prefer that to this, The Incredibles is, and probably will always be my Favorite Super Hero movie! I'd rather them not do a second movie than do something like this and completely ruin the legacy of something that to me is the best super hero movie of all time.
You do NOT talk too long. I love how in depth you go. I listen to these video essays at work, I'm a metal finisher and I put my earphones in and listen to you destroy these writers for being so lazy. Don't listen to anybody complaining. They can turn the video off at anytime. Do not stop doing what you're doing and how you're doing it. It's fucking perfect.
I watched Kyle Kallgren's video on Cinemasins, and while it was a really good video, he dissed GamingMagic13's review of Toy Story 4 in a really confusing way, by saying "This guy complained about the first 10 minutes of Toy Story 4 for an hour. It's a performance art piece. We've found the Marina Abramović of TH-cam Movie Reviewers". Like, I'd be madder if I understood what you were even trying to say. How is an hour-long review of Toy Story 4 a "performance art piece?" And why is that a bad thing?
@@jeremyusreevu237 exactly. Like how is that hurting him? Nobody is making him watch it. I have all these kind of thoughts when I watch movies, so to have so much content to listen to is amazing. Like the whole point of a video essay is to go in depth and explain your points. Like wtf 😂
@@jeremyusreevu237 the more someone has to say, the longer it takes. it's not a hard concept. It's just a deflection tactic to try and defend sunk cost fallacy in things they care about for X reason . for Toy Story, it's nostalgia and holding Pixar up as the golden calf.
@@soulsearcher9620 I guess. It's just I never saw hour-long reviews as a bad thing. A lot of people I watch, like Caddicarus, Friendly Space Ninja, and Good Bad Or Bad Bad, make videos that are an hour or 2 hours long, and their long videos are pretty descriptive, fun, and entertaining, without any bad points. Same with watching some of GamingMagic13's longer videos, like his Toy Story 4 series, and his Top 10 Worst Video Games list (which was hilarious btw). The only long video I disagreed with him on is his Free Guy review, and that's only because it's a movie I like, but can still see why someone would take issue with.
Plus, that doesn't explain why he called an hour-long review of Toy Story 4 a "performance art piece". Like, that doesn't make any kind of sense.
Exactly, I love how in depth these go! It’s entertaining hearing all about what’s wrong with the movie and listening while I draw!
Thank you for saying exactly how I felt. The Incredibles is one of my favorite movies of all time. The way they fumbled the sequel is absolutely insane, and honestly would have been much better if there never was one.
I wish this movie had been a story about the family learning to fight together instead of whatever this mess was. Imagine getting an opening fight where they fumble with each other, trying to figure out how to make each power work together as one team. Watching them develop their powers with smaller villains and unraveling a deepening conspiracy about the return and rise of new supervillains. Watch them put the pieces together both of their teamwork and their incoming, new age enemies. Watch them bring in modern villain groups rather than one off solo acts.
Imagine Violet learning how to do the force field slash after training with Frozone! Or seeing Helen teach Dash about momentum and movement in a battle. Like, there’s so much fun stuff that could happen with them learning how to teamwork. And you can still open with a team battle in the opening, albeit a fumbling and uncoordinated one. And then end with them taking out some lesser villain in a villainous syndicate who’s posing a threat, using their newly gained teamwork skills and ingenuity to win the day. And then leave us hoping for another with a hint at a larger, international or global threat. Give us that “with the return of heroes comes the return of evil” sort of plot.
There were so many ways this movie could have been done better.
YES!
Dang that sounds far better than what we got
Should have focused on the family struggling to balance their normal life since becoming hero’s.
I never hated The Incredibles 2, but I always had a weird feeling about it. Like something was off.
Yeah, Incredibles 2 was mid for me, but compared to the first movie is worse
And now I know why.
Yea it just didn’t have the same feel as the 1st. I did notice the inconsistencies at the beginning however the movie was fine to me. I actually forgot about most of the plot until I seen this video
@@carlososoriohernandez3979 the incredibles 2 is good it didnt detroy everything
BTW Violet Force Field Blades is another example of doing something risky and cool instead of something safer that you already know. Violet could have saved those citizens by just dropping a forcefield on them or dropping a forcefield around the rocks, no need to use an attack to explode the rocks and potentially send SHARPNEL on the people you're supposed to protect, its the same issue that the RC in TS4 had, they were so focused on the stunt they didnt think there were more practical ways of doing the task.(like Drop Buzz to take RC out of the gutter before pulling him back instead of doing whatever they did in TS4.)
i mean yeah just a forcefield blocking it would be , make more sense, she could do that risky when it makes sense he tries to be risky, clearly, like her confessing and then her getting more risky.
Cut to me, wondering wtf RC, TS4, and Drop Buzz even mean
@@KaizerHiwatari Toy Story 4, Remote Control Car, stuck in the gutter, just bring Buzz Lightyear, the very strong toy, to take RC out of the water. instead of doing that convoluted "Operation pulltoy" using Slinky and the monkey barrel, and the porcelain doll to pull everyone back inside Molly's room.
I think the fact that there are quite literally a hundred lines from the first movie that my family quotes all the time is a testament to the sheer perfection of the writing in that movie.
There's literally NOTHING quotable about the second film.
Math is Math
@@oscar1012 THEY CHANGED MATH
"I'm incredible!" - Mr. Incredible, 'The Incredibles 2'
"I eat thunder and crap lightning, okay?! Because I am Mr. Incredible!"
I honestly forgot all these lines and found them annoying when people quote them. And even then, five quotable lines against literal hundreds really is nothing
As someone who has a lot of the same opinions shared in this video, the thing that pissed me off the most was that the sequel received better ratings than the first movie on its release.
WHAT????
@@kawaiipastaaaa6819 Likely a nostalgia fueled honeymoon period like what happened with The Force Awakens.
There was potential for a much more intriguing Deavor backstory.
To set the scene. Winston's voice after he talks about how their father idolised the supers and reacted to them being made illegal: "He was heartbroken when you were all forced to go underground. Then the vultures saw the opportunity." His voices turns to hold hints of pride and anger. "They knew our father had publicly defended supers, even bailing them out of liability on multiple cases including your's Mr Incredible. They sued him, and slandered his name. He tried to fend them off but the damage was done." Winston's voice takes on a mournful tone. "After so much, our fathers health rapidly declined. He died 3 months after you were made illegal, a heartbroken and devastated man."
Oh. The resentment,that sounds a cool direction to take it in
42:14 "Long video = bad video"
I believe the exact opposite. I cannot tell you how excited I feel whenever I see a video essay longer than 15 minutes regardless of wether I like what the content is about.
I am so glad that this video appeared in my recomended and am now preparing to binge your Toy Story 4 video.
Gen z don't agree, henceforth all TH-camrs need to make shorts.
@@TempoLOOKING I'm gen z, and I agree with OP
As long as the video actually has something to say beyond nitpicking or rambling, it's length doesn't matter. A well thought analysis can either take you through a thought process step by step, or hit like a truck with a simple phrase.
It's not the length, it's how you use it.
@@lazaroskarmaniolas7410 youre making me want to watch maulers dark souls videos again.
@@TempoLOOKING TH-camrs make shorts for the algorithm my guy
Everything with Bob just feels wrong, It just doesn’t feel right for bob to feel THIS flawed, he had flaws in the first film but they didn’t feel as bad and less uncomfortable feeling, genuinely Bob’s outbursts are truly hard to watch for me.
Mr Fantastic from Marvel Comics is someone who has very clearly defined and constant character flaws, but everything about Reed makes him a Fascinating, Nuanced and Morally grey character. So when he does some of the pretty fucking bad shit he’s done, no matter how little or big, it Feels believable that Reed would do it, but with Bob, i don’t know, it just feels wrong
Bob was flawed in the first movie because the writers saw him as a human. Bob is flawed in this movie because the writers only see him as a man.
This. I genuinely cringed and squirmed in the theater during some of his scenes. The worst part is that I'm not even surprised they went in this direction with his character. I feel like Disney (including Marvel, Pixar, and Star Wars) have forgotten how to write good male (or female, look how they did with Mrs. Incredible in this movie) characters. I wish we could've gotten a completely different movie smh.
@@gottesurteil3201 A normal man wouldn't be as flawed as Bob; modern writing entails making all men super dumb and incompetent
@@RonniV2 feminist agenda forbids solid writing 4 male characters
I like how nowadays Pixar sequels completely demolish strong, memorable characters, but give a mouthful of new abilities to everyone else (especially new characters) in the most ludicrous way
I mean, I know the reason why, but the end rarely justifies the means
Especially these grotesque
If I’m being honest, Pixar should have ended in 2010, with the release of Toy Story 3.
@@osmanyousif7849 this is a bit harsh
I believe there is a way to create masterpieces again (just... don't let them make sequels, time has shown they are not capable keeping the story consistent)
1. Toy Story 2 and 3 are the exceptions to good Pixar continuations
2. Monsters University is decent as a prequel
3. Cars 2 is bad in a case of what bad a Pixar sequel can be
4. Incredibles II? is it on the same bad as Cars 2 or meh to the level of Monsters University?
@@Thomasmemoryscentral 1. "Nowadays" is a key word
2. "Nowadays" is a key word
3. Yes
4. In the middle... but because of some writing issues (caused by deadline) it slowly creeps towards cars 2 type of bad
Although... monster university could do the "nerf the ogs, but make new characters "cooler"" troupe
Honestly, I don't remember
But it has a prequel pass, since characters can mature from prequel to main animation
after 14 years of waiting for this movie, it's finally out and nobody talks about it. Big impact pixar, big impact
I'm only now finishing the intro and can I just say that your editing is amazing. Like the way you wrote the script and your delivery is already fantastic, but the way you align your words with fitting shots from the movie (like from 4:03-4:14 ) is a really entertaining touch. Super stoked to watch the rest of this
I'm very proud of you, your toy story reviews were one of the most entertaining videos I've seen in youtube, I'm from a latin american country and grew up watching animated movies; watching your videos not only make me value more the films that marked my childhood but also practice my english skills, thank you so much.
*TÚ. ERES. UN. JUGUETEEE!!!*
Wholesome
@@yt.lilsantee TÚ NO ERES EL VERDAD BUZZ LIGHTYEAR; TU ERES UN FIGURA DE ACCIÓN!!! TU ES UN NIÑOS JUGAR COSA!!!
@@yt.lilsantee
Tu eres un strange little man…
Amazing video as always.
I would also like to add to the whole "it's just a kids movie" thing.
Just because a movie is "kid-friendly" doesn't make it "a kids movie". For example The Incredibles is a pretty "kid-friendly" movie, but it's not made strictly for kids. There's aspects of the movie adults would enjoy much more than a kid, but a kid can watch it and get enjoyment from it too. So just because a movie is "kid-friendly", it doesn't mean it's made for kids.
Exactly. It's a family movie. That's the entire theme of the first. Seems the writers of the sequel forgot.
People cofounds 'kids move' with 'for all publics'. An honestly everybody seems to been forgetting that was a thing, miss those times.
The only thing that is made for kids is TH-cam flagging videos and ruining youtubers careers with such nonsense
They should make that an official category. Kid’s movies and kid *friendly* movies. Because there are too many people who think all kid’s movies are just dumb fun when there’s a lot of great stuff out there (including The Incredibles).
I too felt like Violet throwing her mask on the ground was incredible idiotic and out of character for her.
We know she’s young and still has growing to do but that scene seemed way too extreme for her.
Thank you! I thought that was so out of character for her too especially when her mom gave tht speech about keeping ur ID safe on the island. Then she keeps going on a temper tantrum for an OOC thing they made her do
What if she instead launched one of those energy blades at the ground, which would make her using them later make more sense...
@@andrewgreeb916 Id rather that least her random use of them wouldn't feel weird to me. Guess we needed a tony plot though...
@@andrewgreeb916 Yeah, you'd think someone getting mad would maybe accidentally use their powers like when how some people get mad they'll hit something. Hell, you could even have the blast go somewhere near the guy hiding under the car, thus causing him to run away anyway and continue the plot.
About 3 months ago I watched Incredibles 2 for the first time and my dad started watching it with me soon after the movie began- sometime around the Underminer fight. I have no idea when was the last time he saw the first movie but I distinctly remember when Bob was getting folded, my dad was like “that…doesn’t make any sense” and we proceeded to make jokes about how the Underminer would basically become a stain on the drill interior in one second lol
Why is Helen so skeptical and cynical into thinking that saving the city was a mistake and that they’re kids are not “old enough” or capable of handling these type of situations when they’re the reason why they’re all alive!
I guess it's what happens when a sequel takes place immediately after the prior installment, but was actually made over a decade later--the WRITERS are thinking about things way later, way after the fact, forgetting that the CHARACTERS literally just had whatever experiences they just had, and aren't going to do total 180's or even develop doubts in those mere minutes.
@@BWMagusok I don’t blame them for ghat
you forgot to mention the REAL sequel to the Incredibles which is a video game called The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer. it takes place directly after the movie where mr. incredible and frozone team up to take down the underminer. Sadly the family does not get to appear much in the game it mostly leaves the heavy work to Mr. incredible and frozone
This is the first thing I thought. That game was amazing I remember it well, the co-op mode was great
This video essay is too perfect and really clearly illustrates what I would NEVER be able to do. Forever, I have wanted to pick apart the 2nd movie and just haven't been able to on the level and to the degree you have. Kudos, truly. This is an incredible video. Thank you for making this!
Just wanted to thank you for having an entire section dedicated to nitpicks and "it's just a kid's movie" argument. It helped clear a lot of things for me, and I'm sure it did for other people as well!
@Brainfart studios 28
As an aspiring animator and writer who's written three short stories for kids so far, I detest that argument.
Because I'll never understand why kids don't deserve quality content, especially when every generation has a set of classics that are celebrated.
Basically we have a paradox of several generations of classics that have stood the test of time, yet at the same time we're not supposed to take kids' movies and cartoons "too seriously." WTF...?
@@DemonicRemption Anyone who makes that argument to me is either not a parent o r the kind of parent wo lets a tablet raise their children. Who in all good conscience willing believes that their kid doesn't deserve quality content but instead dumbed down stuff simply because "my kid is stupid". They have to have that thought process to make that argument to people.
I enjoyed seeing Grug slapping the wall whenever you said "everybody would have died" lol
They could've give Evelyn's name a small backstory. That she changed her name after her father's death because it's based on a superhero. Or her other gripe with heroes is because her father's declined mental health he can recall perfectly clear about superheroes but not about his children. Or/And their company almost got bankrupt if it weren't for her but her father still praises heroes because Evelyn used heroes technology to invent new technology. So in a way it is the opposite of villain's goal/mentality from the first movie.
Finally someone is tearing this movie apart. When I left the theater and everyone praised it, I thought I crazy in thinking it sucked. It feels like the first movie didn’t happen. So disappointing. But like you said in your Toy Story 4 review, I can’t really be mad at the people working on this film as it’s release date was suddenly moved up a year. I just pretend that it doesn’t exist just like with TS4
38:11 the baby Carrier would be a 100% better than the stroller and could bring Jack-Jack to be closer to the fight letting the family fight together again and even win so really affecting how this story could play out a little different and probably better
I remember talking to a colleague about ideas for this movie, and from the top of my head it should be about the parents learning how to deal with their kids growing up, becoming more independent and a less arrogant. I know it's a stretch, but I wish they could meet super heroes from all over the world in a competition or something. The message should be everyone has something to learn with each other because they're a big family.
But nope! Incredibles 2 talks about women in charge? Matriachy? Men having no idea how to be a father? Wtf do the Incredibles have anything to do with this? It's horribly bad and boring. I remember Mr Incredible looked like the biggest loser ever, a complete needy idiot. So disappointing.
This made me realize how bad the writing was in this movie and how it retconned the whole narrative of the first movie.
i love that after syndrome's hero murder spree suddenly the world is repopulated with heroes again
I actually wanna talk about the deavor backstory for a bit- and how I think this movie could have been improved. When I first saw the scene, and saw that the guy called the superhero’s when there was a bank robbery after they were made illegal, I thought the reason why they didn’t pick up was because they were killed by syndrome. I feel like that would be so much sadder if they didn’t pick up because they were dead, and not because they simply weren’t allowed to.
This brings me to a point that I think should have been focused on more. Since so many of these superhero’s got murdered, why not try to focus on that part of it? Maybe have it be more existential and ask what’ll happen if they’re the last superhero’s? And to people who say like “woah, don’t you think that’s a bit dark for a family friendly movie?” Avatar the last airbender touched on this topic multiple times, and with several different characters. Hama being one of the last waterbenders of the southern tribe, the dragons almost being hunted to exctincyion, and of course, aang’s people and nations completely being wiped out. And the show was TV-Y7. Meaning it’s for 7 year olds.
It'd could even still feed into the plot, since because they weren't allowed to use their powers, none of the supers could help each other, leading to the Superhero genocide
También esta kung fu panda 2 con po siendo el último panda lo cual se desmantelo en la 3 pero en la 2 fue increíble y oscuro
I think Helen should have simply pointed out that Violet's powers are the most conductive to protecting Jack-Jack, and afterwards have the family form a plan as to what to do if in a battle and Jack-Jack is with them.
I thought it was really weird at how apprehensive Bob was when Mr. Incredible basically became the poster-boy for the superhero era falling
About Violet's New Move, I think there's one slight argument that could be made. While Incredibles 2 picks up immediately after the first movie, the Underminer attack was clearly 3 months after the Parr house blew up, as proven by the fact that when we get to the track meet scene at the end of the first movie, it says "3 Months Later." So maybe, just maybe Violet was practicing that new move during those 3 months.
I am amazed.....stunned at the amount of work that you put into this video. You have to be (hands down) the best Animation Editorialist on TH-cam (and I mean that!)!!
The firs time I watched the incredible 2, I felt like it was empty or lacking something. After watching the first one like 3 times to figure out why (not all at once), I came to realize it was because of the very human like struggles that the characters faced (mainly Bob). For the sequel, Helen just doesn’t do it as much for me. Even though not as intuitive as Bob’s first trail, in the sequel I find him a heck of a lot more entertaining than Helen. And like, 60-70% of the movie is about her. She doesn’t have as much as an emotional hook as bob, and thus makes me feel like I wasted time. That’s the main reason I find the sequel less memorable or thrilling.
Because women can do no bad in modern hollywood. Hence she was written with way too little human elements (aka flaws). There was no deeper conflict for her beside "being a hero vs family" - which was very quickly undermined after the train scene where she calls Bob and is super happy towards him about being a hero.
Essentially there was almost no conflict to her character. And that little bit that was there was instantly resolved with "you go girl"
Well, in defense of the old suits being able to survive explosions, Bob old suit got slashed, yes, but Edna states it was made from MegaMesh and she was impressed that he managed to open such a large cut into it, so the suit is super resistant, and that cut did send alert Edna to Bob secret job, thats why she called Hellen, because in no way Bob suit got a cut that large just by him doing Normal day2day activities.
Still unlikely that they managed tl rummnage their suits from all the debris tho.
The thing I hate the most besides spamming Jack-Jack and the lame, predictable villain is everyone's regression as a character.
Violet: Goes from coming out of her shell, showing her full face and even taking the baton when Tony gets nervous asking her out. But then Tony forgets her and she's back to being a depressed sourpuss but with angry outbursts. It's like the first movie never happened.
Dash: An essential part of defeating the Omnidroid and learning that he doesn't have to be the center of attention, is now Jack-Jack's babysitter who can't do math.
Bob: Learns that his glory days as the most important guy in the room are done, and gladly embraces being the patriarch of an amazing family of talented people while becoming less self-absorbed. Now he and Helen switched places I guess and he's incredibly jealous of his wife to the point where he acts like a teenager who's upset that his girlfriend is better at baseball than he is.
Helen: I can't say she's regressed as a character, she just switched roles with Bob. Neat I guess.
I was expecting this movie to be later in time, like maybe Dash is a freshman Jack-Jack's like a third grader and Violet's in college and we can see how everyone's roles and opinions about being supers have evolved or changed. But nope we literally start right where the first movie leaves off and everyone's given an excuse to be the exact same character they were the first time. No lessons learned, no growth, no changes, just the exact same people we all know and love.
Also,
"She normally doesn't drip like this" - Mr. Incredible talking about his daughter to her crush. How did that line make it past everyone?
Actually, the stroller thing might actually not be a nitpick because could change the first act (partially) if Helen had the... baby backpack at all times. And probably make it a bit safer for Jackjack while the family is stopping a 3 story sized drill that is rampaging in the city.
Your editing style of using scenes of the content to express feelings about aspects of the content, reminds mod of Mauler
Keep up the good work
He's the Longman of animated movies.
I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been found and invited for an episode of EFAP.
21:40 - 21:57
Ironically, there's actually a deleted scene to explain how Lucius/Frozone manages to get there. It was basically a similar scene to scene when the Omni-droid attacks the city and the whole "WHERE'S MY SUPERSUIT?!?!" in the original. Except this time, the audience would get to see Lucius's wife.
But Brad Bird claims that they chose to take it out because, "A. We stayed away from the big action scene TOO LONG and kill the momentum. And B. We believed that the off-camera-ness of not showing Lucius's wife was meant to be part of the joke."
OK, so I could understand point B. But with point A, considering what you've pointed out in the past 10 minutes, I doubt any momentum was being killed. The creators could've simply had Lucius witness the attack and trying to get his suit and nothing would have been changed much.
Edit: I hope in your next parts of your analysis, you bring in the director’s commentary like you did for Toy Story 4 to see if Brad Bird is turning into Josh Cooley.
As a person who LOVES running gags. It really is a shame to see that cut out for rather foolish reasons. It would also be another good scene in a terrible movie. At least we still have other drops of incredible in this film to look forward to.
Some people mentioned in his video on toy story 4 (at least one of the parts) that Brad Bird doesnt feel up to creating sequels and this 2018 sequel got made because Disney told him too
@@Thomasmemoryscentral , oh? So if Disney told him to jump off a bridge, would he do it?
1:09:25 there may have been a detail I missed, but instead of having supers being illegal the explanation for the phone idea not working, why didn’t the writers have an interesting connection to the first movie by having the omnidroid and by extension syndrome being the reasoning for this plan failing, because deavor senior didn’t realize that gazerbeam and vironic were murdered by a giant killer robot? That way, him not knowing the phones wouldn’t work would make much more sense. Granted, the attitude of the robbers and the placement of the phones would still be a problem, but at least some level of continuity would’ve been preserved.
The only problem is that I admittedly have no idea *when* the omnidroid killed them, so it’s possible that it happened after the illegality of supers. But given Edna’s cape rant which showcases the fact that supers dying did happen during the glory days, there’s definitely the possibility that it happened before (if there isn’t a confirmed time of their deaths that I forgot about).
the amount of work that you put in your videos is truly incredible.
Heh, INCREDIBLE
Heh, I see what you did there
Pun intended?
I really wish they had ties underminer back into the story somehow and made him a supporting villain, with what seems like a measly bank robbery actually having much bigger implications than was originally assumed.
"If I were to create an incredibly detailed analysis breaking down how amazingly well-written The Incredibles is for 5 hours..."
DO IT
My biggest problem with this movie was how the most entertaining part was the b-plot which had barely anything to do with super hero’s
what was the b-plot again?
@@GavinsBazaar313 it was just Mr Incredible taking care of the kids which would’ve worked better a bunch of shorts film
@@Matt-zu2lu ah so basically sorta like in the first film where Helen looked after the kids in a way
@@GavinsBazaar313 yeah only it takes up more screen time
@@Matt-zu2lu pretty much yeah
I, too, had a really big issue with what they did to the Underminer in this movie. I really thought he would’ve had a bigger part in this movie, working alongside the main villain. Oh how wrong I was. The very beginning let me down significantly, and know what it was really supposed to be like, because I’ve played the Rise Of The Underminer video game as a kid. I still love playing it to this day. All those robots and drills destroying the city was just awesome. And when I saw this movie, expecting to see what I saw in the game, I had never felt so unsatisfied in all of my life. It destroyed what I loved about the Underminer from my childhood. Let’s face it people; the game did it better than this film did
Thank you for this. I've been writing a personal analysis of this movie for awhile and hearing these things helps give me some perspective. The Incredibles is easily one of my favorite movies and the Incredibles 2 was the most disappointing piece of media I've ever encountered. So much potential and they just reset the character development across the board. It didn't look bad, it wasn't awful as a movie, but as the long awaited sequel to such a legitimately fantastic movie? Most disappointing thing I've ever seen. These kinds of videos are extremely cathartic. I watch everything that isn't music on 2x speed so the length of the videos has never bothered me. You do good work and I have distant dreams of someday creating media analysis... things.
Please encourage Gaming Magic Thirteen to do this: (please treat this like a letter to him)
"I've seen some Sonic fans take a solid stab at reviewing Sonic X, yet I believe they're not as in-depth and lengthy as the videos you did on Toy Story 4 (no offence). So I really hope that you could take a good shot at reviewing all 78 episodes both sub and dub or whichever of the two versions suits you -the same way you did the Toy Story 4 videos (again, no offence)."
"Many Sonic fans could learn loads of things from Gaming Magic 13 in this way! As Sonic would say: “It's the only way to live life without regrets!”🦔
Amelia Walker
I’m having a really hard week, and I wanted to say that this and your TS4 videos have helped me immeasurably. And I haven’t even seen either of the movies you’re talking about, so I’m just going “oh god no they didn’t really desecrate my beloved characters that way, DID THEY” right along with you. Thanks!!! I think.
36:05 - The most unexpected moment, but it had me laughing my head off because of how perfectly relevant it was both as a visual to tie to the movies you were discussing as well as the relevancy to the conversation that was actually being discussed.
Bravo.
👏👏👏
Man you are what keeps me sane when people tell me to stop overanalyzing movies, im not overthinking it, im just thinking
Something that I believe is worth saying about the kind of "nitpicks" in TS4 is that, yes, movies will often use tricks and cuts to make some things run more smoothly etc etc, BUT doing it constantly non stop absolutely sets a tone on how the inner universe of the movie works, problems, distances and so on start to feel contrived and fake, manufactured, and the stakes feel much lower if things are just all the time edited to "suit" the moments of the movie, its harder to keep tension and investment if there is no real need for the toys to be clever and sneaky as they have their world having to remain hidden from the humans, which clearly was NOT a thing in Ts4, things have never mattered so little, everything was SO in the open it was absolutely jarring, pushing the suspension of disbelief SO far speaks miles about the care and attention put in the movie as well as the lazyness of the script and ALL that attention and care shows in the small details, in which things they are willing to bend or say "dont matter" to the audience, it sets a BLATANT tone when they are willing to change the basic structure of the house, fabrics of the dress, timings to solve problems "magically" on how much effort and care writters are putting into the franchise, and those details PILE UP, and they pile up FAST, a movie is a sum of it's parts and the end result shows how all those little things for SURE affect the world's consistency and immersion as a whole
I remember a lot felt wrong while watching TS4 in the cinema, asides from the obvious character destruction and those major story points that I hated, but it was a constant feeling through it all, something wrong with the world and pacing but on that one viewing I wasnt able to pin point what it was exactly, not to mention I was distracted with all the other things going horribly wrong, but your video help me notice it was THOSE little "nitpicks" piling up, the botched timing of scenes lasting seconds here and there, the characters and props teleporting around non stop, the cheating at solving issues AND creating sudden conflict, it just PILES UP and it created an experience were things felt artificial and manufactured and weirdly paced and just.. wrong
Also, kids are as deserving of good smart movies as adults, im sick and tired of people thinking so poorly of childrens media, what is this hate towards kids?? what is this disrespect to animation and family oriented stories? they can be wonderfully writtend and should be damn respected
"Also, kids are as deserving of good smart movies as adults, im sick and tired of people thinking so poorly of childrens media, what is this hate towards kids?? what is this disrespect to animation and family oriented stories? they can be wonderfully writtend and should be damn respected"
Friggin, PREACH, Em! I 100% agree. Kids deserve to have quality entertainment, and the fact that there are people who think animation is only for kids, and that kids' movies and shows are awful by design is friggin disgusting. If you haven't seen it, I recommend checking out Dumbsville's video, "Why "It's Just a Kid's Movie" Doesn't Work", as it's a pretty effective condemnation of that way of thinking.
The thing that annoyed me the most is how long it took to open a WINDOW and then the Director(?) commenting in the scene where they get the key that "it has to be quick and funny"
As someone who adores animation, children deserve good stories and animation, screw this whole mentality of 'well its for children so who cares'? Children aren't as dumb as people think, so they shouldn't have to be subjected to dumb media just because they're young.
And I’m not reading that. But you get a like 👍
@@jeremyusreevu237 oh thank you so much I'll totally check it out! Is something I feel really strongly about
"Just because it's made for kids doesn't mean it has to be made stupid, because kids surely are not dumb"
Pretty sure I quoted it wrong, but the point still stands ☝️
I wish it was possible to have remastered versions of older animated movies like this one, but with updated graphics like games. Although that isn’t really a thing it’s still a neat thought