Putting a Bachmann Motor in a Hornby Loco | The Broken B12 Saga
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- Download the files for free: www.thingiverse.com/thing:546...
I found some motors that looked suspiciously like (though maybe not identical to?) the ones Bachmann use in their latest locos... so why not try one in a Hornby engine?
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0:00 Intro
1:33 The Motor
2:35 Making a Motor Mount
4:24 Fitting the New Motor
8:30 First Test
9:00 Track Testing
16:08 Final Improvements - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I'm glad you included the bit at the end about the adapter. A free-running mechanism can make such a difference.
Here’s a video idea: try and fit one of those coreless new motors in an older Triang or Lima loco using one of your 3D printed motor mountings. I’ve always wanted to try it but don’t have a 3D printer to make the mounting.
I despise you for suggesting putting a coreless into a Tri-ang locomotive 😡😡😡😡
@@111greatbear3 Well if you use an adapter then you can change it back… plus I’d only do it to a non-runner wreck anyways
Nice example of Heljan thinking in reverse : simpler, easier and better !
Why not a series on "improve your old/nonfunctional engines" ? I'm in if you make one !
Congratulations on a successful conversion. Its nice that you didn't give up on the B12.
Thanks a lot Stuart - I'm glad I didn't give up too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great to see the massive improvement, brilliant job. A reliable locomotive and well worth all the work, nicely done Sam.
When you said that the new bigger motor was "more expensive" than the other one, I was thinking that it was going to be like £20. or something! Not just £5, odd! Re the original motor(s) in the B12s' anybody with a faulty one ought to be able to send them back direct to Hornby for a NONE faulty motor to be fitted at Hornby's expense, and they should cover the postage/shipping cost.
This video makes me want to do a motor swap it's made such a huge improvement to that loco as soon as you started running it with coaches I thought "that's only infinitely better than before". Great job
I’m always really interested to see how you deal with model railway issues with your‘limited’ budget that apparently the big two companies can’t
This is a really interesting avenue to keep investigating
I hope they see your videos
It’s great Salvage or scrap is back again
Your 3D printing is getting better and better
I’d love to see another project on that
How accurate can you eventually get with it?
Can you reach ready to run standards?
Well done, Sam! Your last tweak of the mechanism really did the trick. But I think the main moral of this story is "Penny wise, pound foolish" when it comes to motors. Considering the original cost of the engine, saving a few quid on the replacement motor just doesn't make sense, eh? By the way, between watching you and OOBill I've gathered enough courage to work on loco mechanisms, even though I'm "mechanicially challenged." Wish me luck, and cheers from Wisconsin!
Excellent as always! Watching you work on faulty locos is always encouraging, I've now started DCC converting steamers I wouldn't have thought of opening up before. Thanks for the videos.
It looks like there may indeed be an issue with the drive train or wheels. Look at 10:48 when you hold it back you can see the rods are not level when running as they should be .
That's just how Hornby manufactures their con rods. They're generally really flimsy and have lots of slack in them.
I agree, that looks like its in the quartering, part of the issue is that the axle under the cab is the first driven axle.
Interesting video. Looks like an engine was salvaged after all, despite the ending to season 2's premiere.
haha thanks David - yes at least this one made it!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I’ve got an idea: Use the same method from the B12 to fix your plastic ta- I mean… Beattie well tank and Adams O2. The O2 could also be if it from some metal side rods.
I would have been tempted to check out the tightness, to see if it could be something that could be imprived on. EG made to roll more freely without the motor in place! To my way of thinking it should be free to roll, and not have any tightness. *(although I could be wrong)
Well done yet again. Your trials and tribulations educate us lesser folk and help us understand model railway engines better. Thank you.
Excellent, Sam. Glad you found a solution to the problem.
Good to see you fixed it. All it needs now is a flywheel on the shaft at the other end of the motor
Congrats on 123k
Decent video Sam always good when you can fix a loco yourself in my eye.
Thanks a lot David - it sure is!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Very well done Sam, your engineering skills are becoming legendary!
I initially thought the stiffness was down to the position of the worm drive on the spindle. Then I watched to the end 😉…
An old trick I was taught when fitting worm gears was to use a cigarette paper between the drive gear and the worm
Very well done Sam.
Up next on Sam's Trains: Can we put a Chevy LS in a Mercury Bobcat?
Very nice job Sam. That was very smart of you to use the same motor which sort of looks like the ones which Bachmann uses on their newer models and the B12 from Hornby runs much better with that new coreless motor than its original 5 pole motor which was unfortunately faulty.
Thanks Bryan - it sure paid off as the performance was amazing!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Fantastic work
Excellent work Sam 👍👍
This turned out nicely! Maybe you can try sometime to see if it would be possible to make a 3D printed adapter for the Triang X03/X04 motors in the future?
Nice work Sam, that’s a great fix.
Great trouble shooting, Sam.👍
now put a hornby motor in a bachmann loco,
also unrelated but sometimes when you say bachmann the captions say batman
I just find that funny.
I recently fixed my old BR Blue B12. I was surprised that the motor and gearing were just regular Hornby 0-6-0 parts.
Wow thank goodness you was able to fix it very interesting video today Sam
Amazing showcase Sam, if possible could you release the design? I would quite like to attempt tis myself
Well done for getting it running well again. It sounds a little noisy, but it's running as I'd expect again.
Brilliant. Having researched micro/mini motors lately, it seems to be quite the intricate big tech industry on its own with motors ranging from 1 USD to over 100. The latter e.g. for medical devices I suppose. This type of coreless design seems to be according to Faulhaber’s blueprint (original patent) and are available on Aliexpress, Ebay today in various voltages, amps and RPM. We’ve understood somewhere that Bachmann have some of their motors custom made by Buhler who make micro motors on special design request by various manufacturers. But if you shop around, there seems to be plenty ways to go around and find solutions with some extra work; tons of micro motors out there of ~13000 rpm and 6-12, 12-24 volts which should do the job. However, in the end perhaps the expensive ones do offer finer speed controls and higher durability. It’s an interesting subject on its one these micro motors.
Nice experiment you did on the B12!
Good job Sam
Nice job! you've really found a great solution. The motor clearly runs well and has no trouble with the Hornby chassis. If they really are the Bachmann type of motor (certainly look-e-likees), perhaps Hornby might like to sub-contract to them...I really hope they monitor your channel..... I've followed your lead and ordered a couple just in case Hornby can't source a replacement motor themselves for my B12's - that they still have - (or if they fail again when they finally complete the repair - have faith?). Thanks for all of your efforts.
Hi Sam, brilliant work, I have three of those motors standing by. How did you reduce the friction in the mech? My B12 had incredibly stiff pickups on the backs of the driving wheels, was yours like that? Top work mate, Mike
Thanks so much Mike! I just widened the drive shaft adapter so that it didn't grip the shaft so much... then it was perfect... turns out it wasn't anything in the mechanism itsself!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This reminds me of my two later Mantua Mikados having warped chassis, causing no adhesion to the 4 middle drivers. I recently got an older chassis but it needs some drilling to accept the newer mechanism and shells.
Sam, you might wanna check the tender drawbar, the tender still clips when it turns left at the 2nd radius S bend
Absolutely brilliant Sam. Unlike the poor Dock Shunter this loco repair has a happy ending. Its very interesting how well it actually runs on that in my opinion still tiny motor. The upgrade was definately worth it it's still cheap as hell to repair it if you have a 3d printer (unlike me)
I'd buy a bracket in a heartbeat.
Hi Sam, great video. Have you had a go at replacing the noisy motor in the Hornby N2 locos ? I looked at getting one and even though Hornby did release an "updated" model R2214 it seems they re-used the old motor and thus did not fix the noisy running problem which you showed in one of your videos
Wow Sam that's amazing are the links to the motors available and any chance do you share your 3d designs or sell them on? I've got a couple of sad locos that could do with being made happier lol 😆
Success. What you are doing with the printer and CAD software is quality. It's good to see what a bit of lateral thinking can achieve in making a 'silk purse' out of a sows ear.
Very interesting! It was interesting how the old Tri-ang 3 pole and XO 4 and the original Hornby Dublo motors were (Hornby Double before the original Ringfield, which would stall and burn out if you weren't careful). I have some still operational.
Yeah I recently fried the ringfield in my tender driven 9F evening star
Weldone Sam maybe you should market the idea to Hornby lol 😂🤣😂🤣
Super. You cracked it. What a difference. So Sam is a fully functional B12 replacement engineer. You did well, and perseverance prevailed. Like the information you give and the ability to show it in live format. Great video Sam .
Hi Sam, Nice review, glad it was ok, (any ideas for a new motor on a class 42 ???) Many thanks , All the best Brian 😃
That's a fantastic tutorial of how to make things better than ... well, what manufacturers sells at a pretty hefty price?
Also coreless motors still have 3 or 5 poles, as in principle these are regular DC motors but construction is just physically very different (and very high-techy, the way the rotors (especially as tiny as these ones) are wound is seriously impressive). The downside is that brushes and commutators of coreless motors are close to being completely unserviceable, making the motor disposable.
Also the step beyond that gets rids of poles is brushless (stepper) motors, these ones are torquy as hell at low speed, and nearly wear-free, but way more expensive and it's a whole different job of retrofitting one, as it would require a dedicated controller paired to it.
Anyway, well done, works beautifully, I hope this beautiful and very classy looking engine will be seen times to times in the future.
Modify it's running board to make it look like one of the loaned engines in the early railway series!
Add a (one of the original) flywheel! Maybe?
Well done Sam.
Start taking orders for conversions 🤔
i see your getting into the world of motor swaps, glad to see the b12 running smoother now
sidenote: you can try to fit high powered motors for a new speed test without propellers
At the very least you're getting content out of that loco. In fact, more than if it had just worked and not been faulty.
Loved this conversion Sam. Are we going to see " Sam's Motors and Mounts". So with this in mind do you think it could be possible to do a tender drive to accompany a loco drive, so we could pull trains of 10 to 14 coaches without double heading 😜
Never thought I would see a title like this for a Hornby video.
Especially not the B12
Lots going on Sam enjoyed your video and like and share thanks DD.
can you put a link to some similar coaches for sale? I love the look of them
I was gonna say that it would be interesting to try and add a flywheel on the other motor shaft and see if it gets smoother, but now I don't think it could get any smoother. The final result is very much factory performance
Well done Sam - I don't think that I could of done that!!! 🤔🚂🚂🚂
So amazing
Thanks Justin! :D
Great job Sam!!! Now, add a flywheel? 😬
Looks like you have the key now to re-motor a number of your old locos that disappointed and give them a wonderful new life!
Thanks Piers - absolutely - this is definitely the way to go... same with the Bachmann locos too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam interesting concept maybe try this with the hornby king which wasn’t up to standards either or any other loco in the future Cheers Guy 😁
Thanks a lot Ed - I may well do that! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
You are a genius
Got to get your hands on a Broadway LTD steamer so ya have a benchmark of top notch is.
You are somehow a master OO gauge engineer
hi Sam cracking video, i recently brought a b12 in lner green and had it sound fitted and the motor start to hum at me and lost a lot of low end talk to the point it was having problems starting.
Thanks a lot Jason - ahh that's not good - could well be the same problem!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The true absolute unit
haha! ;D
@@SamsTrains :)
Excellent work - Hornby, take note and provide mechanisms that actually operate properly out of the box.
How do manufacturers keep getting it wrong, when Sam proves time and time again, it's really not that difficult.
Hi Sam, great broadcast again.............my wounded B12 is currently at Hornby's for a warranty repair; call me cynical I'd be surprised if it runs as intended with a new motor.
I like the model very much, so I wonder if you could supply the bits I need to install this bachman motor into my B12 when it comes back from Dr. Hornby? I'm sure you'll get asked this question ad nauseam. Clearly there'll be a cost element if you could quantify that I can settle up with you. Much appreciated Shane
Awesome video Sam's trains
Thanks Brian! :D
@@SamsTrains you're welcome
I think it will be very interesting to see if other, not so good running loco's can benefit from this type of coreless motor.
They seem to have enough torque and speed to do there job.
Very interesting Sam
Cheers Felix & Laura
Thank you! :D
Hmmm...very interesting...both rival brands put together to make one...very very interesting... Cheers mate and have a good one!
haha it sure is - and works very well too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam,, to get any loco going again for even 10 quid (20 buks aus $) well worth the exta $$$ in my eyes especially for something that looks sooo good.
I also seen in the video the conrods were bending so if they were a tad thicker well that should increase the traction effort only by a small tad it seems to run pretty.good anyways.
Cheers from john in Australia.
Hi Sam, don’t suppose you could make the adapter file available?? Desperately trying to find a replacement motor for mine!
would you consider posting the 3d design for that custom mount you made?
Was there no space for at leasst one of the flywheels?
Sam, can you tell me where you got the bigger screws to fit the new motor cradle?
Try a motor from the hornby b1, they have the earlier version of the spec motor and can take the flywheels with a little adjustment :)
I wonder how one of these motors would work out in a bachmann hall? They have particularly hateful little 3 poles, might be an idea!
Good work, Sam. I never liked the B12 myself, as I always think that the tender looks too small, like it's from another locomotive. 🚂
Interesting and fun. But I have a suggestion. Why not of seen if swapping the motor from the bargain Hornby King reviewed with similar issues and this loco. Would be interesting to see if the motors truly were the issues or the loco chassis. Would be very interesting to see the results
When I first saw it wheelslipping, I thought it was because the new motor doesn't weigh as much as the old one, and lighter locos have less traction. Guess I was wring though.
Thank goodness that my B12 doesn't need a new motor
Cheers Jasper & Willow
That is very good news!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thanks for this excellent techno-refit video using the newer coreless motor in your Hornby B12. What is the correct gauge to success? What a fabulous result! Well done, Sam. I have three Hornby B12's - in their original boxes - which say they are: R150-9300's. The tenders have a 'mechanical simulator sound effect'! I bought all three new for 28 pounds 65p.! I do not know how these versions compare to your version. All three have the Loco Number: 7476 and pickup is on the Loco's front and back Drivers. Boiler handrails are silver-painted on a plastic extrusion part of the boiler. How cheap is that?!
The price I quoted was the total price for all three. One was 10 Pounds, one at 9.65 and one at 9.00. Made by Rovex, Margate.UK
What is the pulling power with this new motor ?
Did/are/do you fix the broken front step on the loco. ?
Does the LBSC Gladstone locomotive have one of these, or is it one of the smaller ones in there?
Gladstone was too small for one of these sadly - space permitting, I'd use these every time!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Fascinating. Makes me wonder whether manufacturers would do better offering a choice of motors in new models in preference to add-on extras like tinted cab windows or etched nameplates.
I just wish they'd installed decent motors to begin with to justify some shockingly extortionate prices manufacturers charge!
@@aveedub7403 Does make you wonder when a superior motor can be had off EBay for little more than a fiver.
Interesting video. I wonder if you could put other companies motors into other locos
Thanks Oliver - you sure could!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Well done Sam. I would like to see a comparison between a 5-pole and a coreless motor. Same rpm. What difference in torque / amp draw etc. Interesting !
Having gone through some extensive research on micro DC motors lately, in theory coreless should be more efficient and therefore drawing less current (amps) at the same rpm. They offer finer controls at all speeds as well. Disadvantages could be that they heat up quicker and higher, and not handle an overload well (e.g. a combination of steep inclines and/or total weight of wagons or coaches to pull). Since they lack a core mass, they speed up and slow down quicker. Hence, inertia isn't great. However, finer controls and higher efficiency speak for this type of motor. Perhaps Sam could one day elaborate on it by some comparing examples, and also show amp testing, etc.
@@lindaoffenbach Thanks for this information. Cheers, filip
Oxford Adams Radial Tank up next? Would be keen to see if that engine can be fixed with the same methods?
Absolutely - that's very high up on my list now!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi sam I hope you're ok
At least it runs better now and those motors do look good quality
Hope you are too Lewis - really impressed with these... will definitely use them more oftenn!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The resistance you felt in the mechanism could be affecting the crawl on this model. The slightly more expensive coreless motor seems to be worth the extra money for those models that warrant it to be spent on them. I mean, it's still less than 10 in a loco that Hornby have some very high RRP on.
Good find on the adaptor. You saved Hornby having to replace it with a good one, but you've also proven Hornby have a serious motor quality issue with some of their models. I hope someone from Hornby watches your videos.
Sam you are the only person who could life my spirits when I'm feeling down, really appreciate the hard work you put in your videos.
Well that's very lovely to hear - thanks for this, glad to hear you're feeling better!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)