I'm glad God shows more grace than some of the people in this comment section. If I wanted to go to Greece and impress everybody, I would have began with modern Greek pronunciation. My goal in learning Greek has been to read and understand the Greek texts of the New Testament. That goal is the same for a lot of people. I suspect Bill Mounce has been used by God more than anybody in this comment section, and I'm thankful for his teaching and his many websites and Apps. I'm glad he has continued to teach on You Tube despite the negative feedback from some who come across as uncharitable and Pharisaical.
This is excellent. Can you do more? Can you also read it straight through at the end with no breaks between the words just so we can get a feel for what it is like when read through fluently. Many thanks
Hello, i am Greek and i would like to say a few things regarding the pronunciation. You stated that the erasmian way is academic and different from how we modern Greeks pronounce the language and i respect that. But you see our language is part of our tradition and while for some people (even Greeks) the ancient form of it is dead and belongs only to museums or libraries, i assure you that it is very much alive. So as living bearers of this tradition we are naturally more capable of pronouncing it correctly or if you like with fewer mistakes. Of course, the language has changed a lot since the ancient times. There is however one significant detail. The marks above the letters were initially introduced to maintain the wealth (sounds) of the language which was starting to decay from the vocal tradition. So if you pronounce it with the modern way and write it with these marks then you have the full ancient language with its musicality, its beauty and all its glory. And if you want to actually appreciate this glory you should listen to these holy texts sang by chanters of the Orthodox church. Just my thoughts on this subject.
This is fine for liturgical purposes, but not for an academic setting. I am sure that the traditional way of pronunciation is very aesthetically pleasing, however, it is not historical. Simply put, the pronunciation of modern Greek is not the same as the pronunciation 1,000 years ago. This is a fact. I don't think modern native Greek speakers are somehow more qualified to comment on accurate historical pronunciation than scholars and linguists who understand phonology. I am a native English speaker, but I would never argue that that makes me somehow more qualified to accurately pronounce Anglo Saxon (Old English) than someone who studies Anglo Saxon academically and understands the changes in the phonology. Trying to read Beowulf with modern English pronunciation might sound interesting, but it is not accurate. Pronouncing the Koine Greek of the Gospels with modern pronunciation might sound beautiful, but it is not historically accurate. Simply put, what is good for the church is not good for the classroom.
@@NLDlover no this a thing said by a DUTCH. A DUTCH. Who wrote these bull**** in the 15 century. And the byzantines at the time talked this language from 6 century.
@@NLDlover we in church as greek orthodox use koine greek only.those erasmius believers can tell us when supposed we change the way we say our language.
@@NLDlover Mounce speaks Erasmian Koine Greek with a bad American accent. He learned it from 2 or 3 other generations of American scholars who spoke it with horrible Erasmian pronunciation. It is layer after layer of bad only getting worse. The Greek Orthodox monks living in the monasteries in Greece have been using the same pronunciation for a thousand years. Do you really think you know it better than them?
hi, i'm new to greek, does καί mean "and" and "now"? do some words have have many meanings? can someone link me a video on how the translation process is carried out?
It can mean and, even, also or namely. I think Bill talks about how some words can have other meanings in other chapters although I'm only on chapter 4 myself. I don't know of any video to link for the translation process though sorry.
Not mad but I must say I totally agree with those who prefer the greek pronunciation. It would have been understandable to use a latinized pronunciation in a day when transportation and communication were arduous and dangerous and there was realy no option. But today with to clicks of any device that gets internet you can get the whole nt read in beautiful greek by native readers. Why would you settle for the middle ages. I started my greek study in 1986 and I had to catch a bus down town to the greek Orthodox church with my cassette player and greek nt and plead with a real greek speaker to read me a few verses. It's really not fair how easy todays Greek students have it !!!.
We have all sinned against a holy God. We have lied, stolen, and used His name as a cuss word. Since He is holy, he punishes sinners in the lake of fire. But God is rich in mercy to all who call upon Him. Jesus suffered and died on the cross for your sins, taking the punishment on Himself. He rose again on the third day after He died. “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” Please repent and believe in this gospel alone for salvation. Come to Him
Sir if you have put yourself in such a big effort to learn the Erasmian pronunciation, witch only a hundred people use worldwide, - ending like a Texan American Tourist reading the Greek menu in a restaurant of Athens - why don't you put the same effort in exercising the modern Greek pronunciation. Sorry to tell, but nobody read the Bible in 300 ad the way you read it. Otherwise thumbs up and a lot of credits to you for learning Greek.
xx xx Sir you took my message all wrong. I'm not saying that he has a bad Greek pronunciation. I am saying that his pronunciation is not Greek at all. It's not like you trying to learn French and get the correct pronunciation. Of course I understand this and it is difficult to get to a foreign languages pronunciation easily. Rather I'm saying that this pronunciation he's using for the Greek doesn't exist in the world it's only an academic one an artificial one. In real world simply it doesn't exist. We Greeks can read the above text of John 1st in a total different way. And we are 11 million real humans who read this in a different way in real life than 100 academics closed inside their auditoriums isolated from The Real World Of course none of our ancestors is alive today to show us what Greek sound like 2000 years ago but we the modern Greeks are here. We can read it we can understand it we can explain it but in a different sound
Modern Greek pronunciation is perfectly fine for liturgy and religious purposes but it is not at all appropriate for academic study. The point of the Reconstructed and Erasmian pronunciations is to more closely approximate historical pronunciations of Greek to better understand these texts in their own context. I get that millions of people speak Greek as a native tongue. But the Gospels (nor the Illiad) were written in 2017. You're basically saying that we should not study anything historically and just go with whatever the modern version of something is. Changes in pronunciation DO have an impact on the semantics as any linguist will tell you; which is why it is important to try and understand the historical pronunciation for someone who is trying to study the Bible in its historical context. Contrary to your assertion that we cannot know how Greek was pronounced 2000 years ago, we can and have used literary and textual evidence through the lens of comparative linguistics to accurately reconstruct the pronunciations of various time periods. Are they complete, or perfect? No. Does that mean that we should abandon the pursuit of historical pronunciation altogether. Absolutely not! For example, we know FOR A FACT that the phoneme represented by the letter gamma was pronounced differently 2000 years ago than in modern Greek. Being a native Greek speaker doesn't actually qualify you to better understand how Greek was pronounced 2000+ years ago any more than ME being a native English speaker qualifies me to comment on the correct pronunciation of English 2000+ years ago (unless of course you've studied the subject). Based on your own logic, we should read Beowulf with a modern English pronunciation instead of the reconstructed Anglo Saxon (Old English) pronunciation. This, of course, would be absurd as it would do significant violence to the text and cloud our understanding of the story. Notice how you don't see modern English speakers throwing a huge tantrum or acting like their heritage is being attacked when someone reads Beowulf in the reconstructed pronunciation of Anglo Saxon?
But again, how can one say that academic Erasmian pronunciation is truly what we are looking for in terms of an ACCURATE reconstruction of New Testament Greek? Why doesn't anyone notice how it just sounds like speaking with an American accent, with its omicron sounding like 'o' in 'not', aspirated allophones of initial consonants /p, t, k/ (like in English) and lack of any attempt to roll 'r'? Most Greek teachers who use Erasmian actually seem not too concerned concerned with historical accuracy, only with finding a pronunciation that's easy for students? Actual reconstructions must be distinguished from basic classroom pronunciation. One should consult Gignac (1976), Teodorsson (1978), Horrocks (2010) or any well-known philological works on Koine Greek for the former.
I'm sure God's wrath is burning heavily for people who mispronounce the ancient language He chose to communicate His New Testament truths. Doesn't that sound like our God?
I wanna learn it so I can read it and understand it, I don't care about pronouncing it properly LOL! I wanna read them old Septuagint bibles in Greek...
Erasmian pronunciation should not be perpetuated, it is also a ridiculous pronunciation and an insult to the Greek speaking peoples. It's worse when you know it's wrong and you advance it anyway.
I'm glad God shows more grace than some of the people in this comment section. If I wanted to go to Greece and impress everybody, I would have began with modern Greek pronunciation. My goal in learning Greek has been to read and understand the Greek texts of the New Testament. That goal is the same for a lot of people. I suspect Bill Mounce has been used by God more than anybody in this comment section, and I'm thankful for his teaching and his many websites and Apps. I'm glad he has continued to teach on You Tube despite the negative feedback from some who come across as uncharitable and Pharisaical.
Thank you Mr. Bill Mounce for taking the time to make these videos.
I do love this. I am learning Greek on my own.
How did you go with learning Greek on your own? (If you didn't make it through yet, no worries, you can still do it!)
@@biblical.languages I have been going super slow and take a lot of breaks from it. But I have not given up.
This has helped me to prepare for my Greek Exam with Global University.
This is exactly what I needed. Thank you!
Thank you Dr. Mounce. So grateful I discovered your materials.
verse 1:5 begins at 1:25
Verse 2:1 begins at 11:55
thanks for doing God's work !
Am so grateful I got this video. Thank you Mr Mounce.
Am happy with this, it is helping me as am on training of Greek getting ready for Bible translation into lukonzo
Thank you for being so apologetic about the pronunciation. It is an unfortunate situation, and you're handling it with equinimity.
Your book is awesome! I'm getting ready for seminary, and this is immensely helpful!
This is excellent.
Can you do more?
Can you also read it straight through at the end with no breaks between the words just so we can get a feel for what it is like when read through fluently.
Many thanks
OH WOW. THANK YOU. BEYOND HELPFUL!
Love this post.. easier learn bible grèek thanks
Please post more videos like this thank and may God bless you
Nice video, thanks for sharing it with us, well done :)
Hello, i am Greek and i would like to say a few things regarding the pronunciation. You stated that the erasmian way is academic and different from how we modern Greeks pronounce the language and i respect that.
But you see our language is part of our tradition and while for some people (even Greeks) the ancient form of it is dead and belongs only to museums or libraries, i assure you that it is very much alive.
So as living bearers of this tradition we are naturally more capable of pronouncing it correctly or if you like with fewer mistakes. Of course, the language has changed a lot since the ancient times. There is however one significant detail. The marks above the letters were initially introduced to maintain the wealth (sounds) of the language which was starting to decay from the vocal tradition. So if you pronounce it with the modern way and write it with these marks then you have the full ancient language with its musicality, its beauty and all its glory.
And if you want to actually appreciate this glory you should listen to these holy texts sang by chanters of the Orthodox church.
Just my thoughts on this subject.
This is fine for liturgical purposes, but not for an academic setting. I am sure that the traditional way of pronunciation is very aesthetically pleasing, however, it is not historical. Simply put, the pronunciation of modern Greek is not the same as the pronunciation 1,000 years ago. This is a fact.
I don't think modern native Greek speakers are somehow more qualified to comment on accurate historical pronunciation than scholars and linguists who understand phonology. I am a native English speaker, but I would never argue that that makes me somehow more qualified to accurately pronounce Anglo Saxon (Old English) than someone who studies Anglo Saxon academically and understands the changes in the phonology. Trying to read Beowulf with modern English pronunciation might sound interesting, but it is not accurate. Pronouncing the Koine Greek of the Gospels with modern pronunciation might sound beautiful, but it is not historically accurate.
Simply put, what is good for the church is not good for the classroom.
@@NLDlover no this a thing said by a DUTCH. A DUTCH. Who wrote these bull**** in the 15 century. And the byzantines at the time talked this language from 6 century.
@@NLDlover we in church as greek orthodox use koine greek only.those erasmius believers can tell us when supposed we change the way we say our language.
@@NLDlover Mounce speaks Erasmian Koine Greek with a bad American accent. He learned it from 2 or 3 other generations of American scholars who spoke it with horrible Erasmian pronunciation. It is layer after layer of bad only getting worse. The Greek Orthodox monks living in the monasteries in Greece have been using the same pronunciation for a thousand years. Do you really think you know it better than them?
@@beijingbro2 Somehow I knew this conversation would end up back at Mt. Athos!
Thanks so much bro!
We learned your pronunciation in seminary.
To further clarify this is the Nestle's text the Textus Receptus.
I did this back in the 1980s but we didn't use Computers,we had to HANDWRITE everything out.
Hallelujah
Thank you.
What Bible software do you use in this video?
This is Accordance, its great for seeing English and Greek side by side. (But dont let that side track you from learning the Greek 😀 )
What app are you using?
Thanks Bill
If you have this for the entire new testament and LXX I would pay good money for it
hi, i'm new to greek, does καί mean "and" and "now"? do some words have have many meanings? can someone link me a video on how the translation process is carried out?
It can mean and, even, also or namely. I think Bill talks about how some words can have other meanings in other chapters although I'm only on chapter 4 myself. I don't know of any video to link for the translation process though sorry.
"And," for sure.
vocab flash card playlist th-cam.com/play/PLcOdvtrBqYyy7KBMsbiYtWJ7lfgJpoDNe.html
Not mad but I must say I totally agree with those who prefer the greek pronunciation. It would have been understandable to use a latinized pronunciation in a day when transportation and communication were arduous and dangerous and there was realy no option. But today with to clicks of any device that gets internet you can get the whole nt read in beautiful greek by native readers. Why would you settle for the middle ages. I started my greek study in 1986 and I had to catch a bus down town to the greek Orthodox church with my cassette player and greek nt and plead with a real greek speaker to read me a few verses. It's really not fair how easy todays Greek students have it !!!.
Obrigado!
Oh! I will listen hard.
thanks v much
Erasmius way to say greek is stupidity and insult to greeks
We have all sinned against a holy God. We have lied, stolen, and used His name as a cuss word. Since He is holy, he punishes sinners in the lake of fire.
But God is rich in mercy to all who call upon Him. Jesus suffered and died on the cross for your sins, taking the punishment on Himself. He rose again on the third day after He died.
“He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
Please repent and believe in this gospel alone for salvation. Come to Him
Sir if you have put yourself in such a big effort to learn the Erasmian pronunciation, witch only a hundred people use worldwide, - ending like a Texan American Tourist reading the Greek menu in a restaurant of Athens - why don't you put the same effort in exercising the modern Greek pronunciation.
Sorry to tell, but nobody read the Bible in 300 ad the way you read it.
Otherwise thumbs up and a lot of credits to you for learning Greek.
xx xx Sir you took my message all wrong.
I'm not saying that he has a bad Greek pronunciation.
I am saying that his pronunciation is not Greek at all.
It's not like you trying to learn French and get the correct pronunciation. Of course I understand this and it is difficult to get to a foreign languages pronunciation easily.
Rather I'm saying that this pronunciation he's using for the Greek doesn't exist in the world it's only an academic one an artificial one.
In real world simply it doesn't exist.
We Greeks can read the above text of John 1st in a total different way.
And we are 11 million real humans who read this in a different way in real life than 100 academics closed inside their auditoriums isolated from The Real World
Of course none of our ancestors is alive today to show us what Greek sound like 2000 years ago but we the modern Greeks are here.
We can read it we can understand it we can explain it but in a different sound
Modern Greek pronunciation is perfectly fine for liturgy and religious purposes but it is not at all appropriate for academic study.
The point of the Reconstructed and Erasmian pronunciations is to more closely approximate historical pronunciations of Greek to better understand these texts in their own context. I get that millions of people speak Greek as a native tongue. But the Gospels (nor the Illiad) were written in 2017. You're basically saying that we should not study anything historically and just go with whatever the modern version of something is.
Changes in pronunciation DO have an impact on the semantics as any linguist will tell you; which is why it is important to try and understand the historical pronunciation for someone who is trying to study the Bible in its historical context. Contrary to your assertion that we cannot know how Greek was pronounced 2000 years ago, we can and have used literary and textual evidence through the lens of comparative linguistics to accurately reconstruct the pronunciations of various time periods. Are they complete, or perfect? No. Does that mean that we should abandon the pursuit of historical pronunciation altogether. Absolutely not! For example, we know FOR A FACT that the phoneme represented by the letter gamma was pronounced differently 2000 years ago than in modern Greek.
Being a native Greek speaker doesn't actually qualify you to better understand how Greek was pronounced 2000+ years ago any more than ME being a native English speaker qualifies me to comment on the correct pronunciation of English 2000+ years ago (unless of course you've studied the subject). Based on your own logic, we should read Beowulf with a modern English pronunciation instead of the reconstructed Anglo Saxon (Old English) pronunciation. This, of course, would be absurd as it would do significant violence to the text and cloud our understanding of the story. Notice how you don't see modern English speakers throwing a huge tantrum or acting like their heritage is being attacked when someone reads Beowulf in the reconstructed pronunciation of Anglo Saxon?
But again, how can one say that academic Erasmian pronunciation is truly what we are looking for in terms of an ACCURATE reconstruction of New Testament Greek? Why doesn't anyone notice how it just sounds like speaking with an American accent, with its omicron sounding like 'o' in 'not', aspirated allophones of initial consonants /p, t, k/ (like in English) and lack of any attempt to roll 'r'? Most Greek teachers who use Erasmian actually seem not too concerned concerned with historical accuracy, only with finding a pronunciation that's easy for students? Actual reconstructions must be distinguished from basic classroom pronunciation. One should consult Gignac (1976), Teodorsson (1978), Horrocks (2010) or any well-known philological works on Koine Greek for the former.
I'm sure God's wrath is burning heavily for people who mispronounce the ancient language He chose to communicate His New Testament truths. Doesn't that sound like our God?
I wanna learn it so I can read it and understand it, I don't care about pronouncing it properly LOL! I wanna read them old Septuagint bibles in Greek...
Erasmian pronunciation should not be perpetuated, it is also a ridiculous pronunciation and an insult to the Greek speaking peoples. It's worse when you know it's wrong and you advance it anyway.
Yes, it's biblical Greek, not "restaurant Greek". Get over it. OR make your own videos and fulfil your destinies.
Terrible
Honestly, this Erasmian pronunciation is ridiculous 🤨
A most idiot person he was