Hey Keith....the Delta Grinder dresser uses a non obtainable 5/16 shank diamond, So I just turned down a 3/8" shank diamond to fit. IIRC...the shank was mild stell and no problem to turn. Additionally....I was dealing in old table saws for awhile, and ended up having about 20 cast iron tops left over. I have been using them periodically, by cutting a chuck out as needed for projects. If you want.....I will slice on an edge, and send it your way ....they are well seasoned! Good to see you are still using the LW chuck I sold you at ArnFest ....probably ten years ago by now! I also have a broken dovetail on a dresser like yours, but will need to check to see if the rod you need is still present. I have one like it that I use, otherwise, I'd send the whole unit ....bout the time I did....I'd need a part for myself!
Tool makers typically put a standard diamond point dresser in a grinding vice and then touch off the machine side of the wheel and move the head up and down to dress the wheel for side grinding. Rarely use specialty dressing tools only for rad grinding or form grinding. Angle the dressing point in the vice to obtain required angle.
The factory fences are made of cast iron. Cast iron retains less magnetism with the mag turned off and the "rat fur" sticks to it less. The factory ones also usually have a step in the vertical portion of the rail and a sideways offset in the slot so the rail can slide downward, sideways, and outward on the bolts and will then be clear below the chuck top surface in a storage position. All that being said, what you are doing will probably work just fine. I need to make a back rail and a front rail for my mag chuck, too... $75 is a good price for the factory rail. I think the cast iron will cost you most of that or more. Consider getting the front rail at the same time if you go in that direction. Walker chucks are the good stuff...
A couple things- Not sure if that back edge of the chuck is ground flat, if not it would be a good idea to grind it parallel first. That hot rolled surface on the angle iron will never index perfectly if you remove and replace it. I think you should have ground the inner leg of the angle flat first so you have a precision surface in case you need to remove and replace it at some time. With the back edge of the chuck ground parallel and the inner leg of the angle also ground you could remove and replace it without having to re-index or re-grind it each time. On the trimming of the angle, I would have doubled it with a second piece of angle iron in the vise and clamped the ends together to reduce vibration, then just made the initial trim cut with a 1/8" end mill or a slitting saw, eliminating the bandsaw cut and giving you a nice straight surface for the grinding.
Yes, that makes sense if you were grinding the edges of a part or a channel that required the sides to be parallel. I'm anxious to see the unit you get from the manufacturer, as I suspect it will be a heavier piece of material ground on all 4 sides with the relief also ground, even though 75.00 seems awfully cheap for such an object.
I know the feeling Keith. Time is our enemy. Sometimes it takes me a month to do a 4 hour job because I'm missing a few things. You have a great shop be patient. You will get there.
Keith - why not lay the work flat on the table of the horizontal mill (for the initial cut) and cut the lot off in one pass? Its more stable and would have saved time and been more rigid.
Is it not neccesary to grind the surface that mates with the magchuck? Is the stock flat enough so that it will register even if taken off and put back on?
So long you mount it perfectly still, read as, won't move on you, which includes cleaning both sides of any kind of raised surfaces, well, then simply dressing the front does it. I made several for my friend's grinder (various types that suit different tools) and all he asks me is a simple straight cut on the raised edge.
Not really as these are not meant to be taken off and put back on without regrinding. Once it's securely mounted and ground it will remain parallel to the motion of the table until it's taken off. They are meant to be replaced when they are out of material to true them.
How about this as a non-super-non-complicated holding system for the angle in the mill: Clamp another piece of angle iron with its flange pointing away from you, giving you some nice metal/strength to keep your work piece from bending.
just a suggestion for dressing a relief (also refered to as a bead) on the wheel. being a precision grinder myself (may sound like a cliche as everyone online is an apparent expert but i am actually a grinder haha) rather than using a tangent grinder on the bed as you are to dress a bead on it you can use a diamond dressing wheel like how you would dress a wheel as standard just at a 90 degree angle as you dont need to dress an angler more just have a smaller contact area between wheel and the back bar. or another option is using a cup cbm wheel however i am unaware what wheels you own to use. hopefully this is some help to you and is understandable. enjoy the videos on the channel keep up the informative videos thanks
Has your grinder got a long enough stroke to cover the length of the magchuck? If so why not just lay the angle iron on its back and grind vertically as usual. However that jig for dressing the back of the wheel looked very interesting so I'm looking forward to the next video showing you using it. Regards
Getting the edge ground flat is only part of the problem - you also need to grind it parallel to the movement of the machine. The only way to accurately do that is to grind it on the machine.
I can understand the wish to only have to clean up one machine but I would have thought that the first milling would have been easier and better done on the K&T but I get it, did you mill the chuck matting face of the rail you are a very smart man Keith but in this case I think you were over thinking it just put a regular diamond point on an angle plate (sine bar ) to dress the wheel to relive the face so to get the job done
Since you've returned to machining, I assume that the oak tree that stood in your front yard and that was destroyed by a recent storm, has been cut into pieces and the debris removed.
Mine was missing the exact same pin. That pin is also used to set your offset by using gauge blocks between the side pin and missing pin you set either a concave or convex arc. You also need a center line height block for setting the diamond on center line If memory serves me correct on mine it is 3.400" That will help you to get the diamond on the center line of the spindle Rotate the spindle upside down so the diamond is facing down put the block under the diamond and lower it till it touches and tighten up the diamond holder. Then the diamond is exactly on center line of the spindle.
buddy, I love the content, but you know the right way to do this would have been to take the vise off the table and mount the rail sitting on some scrap on your mill table so it can be fully supported. Faster isn't better.
I do believe everyone watching can sympathize with that. It's like shop ADHD, you go from one shop issue to the next just trying too get the first one done.
Projects breed projects Keith! You are old enough that you should have accepted that fact by now. Never will everything be in the order you want and you will have everything that you need. That sure would be nice but I think the only way that happens is to quit doing projects at all. Keep at it you will get it. :-)
Very true, but being in a new shop has its challenges. Just wait until half of your stuff is in the new shop and the other half is in the old shop and you have no idea what half is where.....
why not clamp the angle profile flat on the mill table with a few toe-clamps and then mill the edge either with a vertical cutter or a horizontal cutter? Since the contact face which will later be clamped to the magnetic chuck is not ground perpendicular to the edge machined in this video you will have to regrind the fence edge each time you have moved it. To avoid regrinding the fence each time you would have to grind the contact surface of the fence and its contacting face on the magnetic chuck.
...Buying used tools, such as this and other 'larger' home shop machines....can be extremely frustrating when a couple small parts are lost/missing and no-one can recall what they look like? A friend of mine had a nice home machine shop....caught fire and burned to the ground....He gave me a few Tools, one is a 'universal cutter grinder'....has the major parts Base, and motor with spindle...also $250 CBN cup wheel....but arbor and spacers are missing....also the SUPER-MAX mill and new Japanese lathe were destroyed by combination of heat...and water from hoses.....sent off to the scrap yard by well-meaning grandson doing clean-up (Well Grandpa'....it was just a bunch of rusty metal stuff)........no tellin' the condition of that stuff....? I drove to junkyard and did retrieve a nice drilling machine....2 spindles, brand new motors in the boxes, 30"-48" table with coolant rail....cast iron legs....
Keith sense you have a stand in fence why not cast a iron one bound to be cheaper than $75 probably my foundry guy charge $20 or so. don't know what cattail would charge.
You grind it in again. It's basically a consumable. Think that you can modify it to suit various pieces, or even tools. A friend of mine that grinds professionally, has something like 20 different fences with cuts, slots, even attachment points for extensions, that themselves get ground and replaced as they wear out.
Got it. Good point and thank you for taking the time to respond. I still don't the stresses induced when a bent piece of angle iron is socked to the vice.
Only have to chase bits and bobs one time, if.... Finding logical storage space for them is important. I can't remember where I laid down anything, any more. I've got to know where it's supposed to be and hope I didn't malfunction last time. It's another pain in the butt precursor to flippin' the switch, but for me, it's not as bad as knowing I had the damned thing once, but it walked away. For me, it's double frustrating to lose the widget I remember having. Growl.
As has been commented here, you may be over complicating the job of dressing the wheel. This can even be done free hand with carborundum if you're careful. But there are plenty of guys that will do the side dress of the wheel with a diamond clamped sideways in a grinding vice and then put a couple thousandths recess starting about 1/8th away from the rim using the grinders own adjustments. Sometimes we get so caught up in doing it the way we were taught that we forget to consider if there might be an alternative method. I know I've been guilty of this many a time.
All the experts. You're a very patient man, Mr. Rucker.
A little progress is still progress. Thanks for the video.
Hey Keith....the Delta Grinder dresser uses a non obtainable 5/16 shank diamond, So I just turned down a 3/8" shank diamond to fit. IIRC...the shank was mild stell and no problem to turn. Additionally....I was dealing in old table saws for awhile, and ended up having about 20 cast iron tops left over. I have been using them periodically, by cutting a chuck out as needed for projects. If you want.....I will slice on an edge, and send it your way ....they are well seasoned! Good to see you are still using the LW chuck I sold you at ArnFest ....probably ten years ago by now! I also have a broken dovetail on a dresser like yours, but will need to check to see if the rod you need is still present. I have one like it that I use, otherwise, I'd send the whole unit ....bout the time I did....I'd need a part for myself!
Tool makers typically put a standard diamond point dresser in a grinding vice and then touch off the machine side of the wheel and move the head up and down to dress the wheel for side grinding. Rarely use specialty dressing tools only for rad grinding or form grinding. Angle the dressing point in the vice to obtain required angle.
best perspective you got one more thing on its way. the good part is it'll be like Christmas when that stuff shows up. that's the part I love.
TH-cam's automatic captions refer to your machine noise as "[applause]". Apparently it likes it.
That's funny! I have also heard that TH-cam has a hard time interpreting my "southern English".
WILKI PRODUCTS, TN. I WOULD HAVE ADDED A HEAVY BAR BEHIND THE ANGLE,THAT STOPED ANY VIBES, DONE THIS IN THE PAST AND IT WORKED FINE
Just as long as you never crack out a "Y'all watch this!!!" we are fine
The factory fences are made of cast iron. Cast iron retains less magnetism with the mag turned off and the "rat fur" sticks to it less. The factory ones also usually have a step in the vertical portion of the rail and a sideways offset in the slot so the rail can slide downward, sideways, and outward on the bolts and will then be clear below the chuck top surface in a storage position. All that being said, what you are doing will probably work just fine. I need to make a back rail and a front rail for my mag chuck, too... $75 is a good price for the factory rail. I think the cast iron will cost you most of that or more. Consider getting the front rail at the same time if you go in that direction. Walker chucks are the good stuff...
A couple things- Not sure if that back edge of the chuck is ground flat, if not it would be a good idea to grind it parallel first.
That hot rolled surface on the angle iron will never index perfectly if you remove and replace it. I think you should have ground the inner leg of the angle flat first so you have a precision surface in case you need to remove and replace it at some time. With the back edge of the chuck ground parallel and the inner leg of the angle also ground you could remove and replace it without having to re-index or re-grind it each time. On the trimming of the angle, I would have doubled it with a second piece of angle iron in the vise and clamped the ends together to reduce vibration, then just made the initial trim cut with a 1/8" end mill or a slitting saw, eliminating the bandsaw cut and giving you a nice straight surface for the grinding.
If you remove the fence, it is standard practice to regrind it again when you put it back on.
Yes, that makes sense if you were grinding the edges of a part or a channel that required the sides to be parallel. I'm anxious to see the unit you get from the manufacturer, as I suspect it will be a heavier piece of material ground on all 4 sides with the relief also ground, even though 75.00 seems awfully cheap for such an object.
I know the feeling Keith. Time is our enemy. Sometimes it takes me a month to do a 4 hour job because I'm missing a few things. You have a great shop be patient. You will get there.
Seems like the older we get the less time we find. Time is a tricky bastard...
Keith - why not lay the work flat on the table of the horizontal mill (for the initial cut) and cut the lot off in one pass? Its more stable and would have saved time and been more rigid.
Is it not neccesary to grind the surface that mates with the magchuck? Is the stock flat enough so that it will register even if taken off and put back on?
So long you mount it perfectly still, read as, won't move on you, which includes cleaning both sides of any kind of raised surfaces, well, then simply dressing the front does it. I made several for my friend's grinder (various types that suit different tools) and all he asks me is a simple straight cut on the raised edge.
Not really as these are not meant to be taken off and put back on without regrinding. Once it's securely mounted and ground it will remain parallel to the motion of the table until it's taken off. They are meant to be replaced when they are out of material to true them.
That is what happens to me most of the time on any project. Thanks for the video.
Morning Keith....I use a wheel dressing stone to make the angle on the back face of the wheel. Just do it by hand.....
www.mcmaster.com/#grinding-wheel-dressing-sticks/=17x7qk1
How about this as a non-super-non-complicated holding system for the angle in the mill: Clamp another piece of angle iron with its flange pointing away from you, giving you some nice metal/strength to keep your work piece from bending.
Or lay the angle iron flat on its back on the table and run the mill over it.
just a suggestion for dressing a relief (also refered to as a bead) on the wheel. being a precision grinder myself (may sound like a cliche as everyone online is an apparent expert but i am actually a grinder haha) rather than using a tangent grinder on the bed as you are to dress a bead on it you can use a diamond dressing wheel like how you would dress a wheel as standard just at a 90 degree angle as you dont need to dress an angler more just have a smaller contact area between wheel and the back bar. or another option is using a cup cbm wheel however i am unaware what wheels you own to use. hopefully this is some help to you and is understandable.
enjoy the videos on the channel keep up the informative videos
thanks
Thank you Keith! Learned from you as always.
Has your grinder got a long enough stroke to cover the length of the magchuck? If so why not just lay the angle iron on its back and grind vertically as usual. However that jig for dressing the back of the wheel looked very interesting so I'm looking forward to the next video showing you using it. Regards
Getting the edge ground flat is only part of the problem - you also need to grind it parallel to the movement of the machine. The only way to accurately do that is to grind it on the machine.
I can understand the wish to only have to clean up one machine but I would have thought that the first milling would have been easier and better done on the K&T but I get it, did you mill the chuck matting face of the rail
you are a very smart man Keith but in this case I think you were over thinking it just put a regular diamond point on an angle plate (sine bar ) to dress the wheel to relive the face so to get the job done
It could have been milled on the K&T but there were workholding issues there as well.
Since you've returned to machining, I assume that the oak tree that stood in your front yard and that was destroyed by a recent storm, has been cut into pieces and the debris removed.
Was doing a frame for a Cushman scooter using same angle iron. Had to reduce edges
I see the humidity is playing hell on your vice. Unless it's just the camera angle. Just looks like the ways are rusty. Thanks for the videos.
I like it , That should work just fine Keith ! I will be watch'en , THUMBS UP .. take care man !!
Mine was missing the exact same pin. That pin is also used to set your offset by using gauge blocks between the side pin and missing pin you set either a concave or convex arc.
You also need a center line height block for setting the diamond on center line If memory serves me correct on mine it is 3.400" That will help you to get the diamond on the center line of the spindle Rotate the spindle upside down so the diamond is facing down put the block under the diamond and lower it till it touches and tighten up the diamond holder. Then the diamond is exactly on center line of the spindle.
Yes, when I start using it to grind a radius, I will need to have the point set on center and a custom height gauge is just the ticket for that.
30 seconds with a carborundum stick will dress that wheel plenty good enough for this job.
Nice job, but my concern is that it looks like a lovely place for grinding grit to gather under.
Howdy Keith great video also can't wait till part two... well back to sleep in go
THANK YOU...for sharing.
buddy, I love the content, but you know the right way to do this would have been to take the vise off the table and mount the rail sitting on some scrap on your mill table so it can be fully supported. Faster isn't better.
I disagree - the right way to get something done is to get it done with what you have. Many ways to skin a cat and in the end, I skint the cat.
I do believe everyone watching can sympathize with that. It's like shop ADHD, you go from one shop issue to the next just trying too get the first one done.
Projects breed projects Keith! You are old enough that you should have accepted that fact by now. Never will everything be in the order you want and you will have everything that you need. That sure would be nice but I think the only way that happens is to quit doing projects at all. Keep at it you will get it. :-)
Very true, but being in a new shop has its challenges. Just wait until half of your stuff is in the new shop and the other half is in the old shop and you have no idea what half is where.....
Already have that problem where the tool I need is in the other shop, getting plenty of excercise walking back and forth at least!
Why aren't you grinding the inside, so it would fit true against the side of the chuck ?
Paddy
why not clamp the angle profile flat on the mill table with a few toe-clamps and then mill the edge either with a vertical cutter or a horizontal cutter?
Since the contact face which will later be clamped to the magnetic chuck is not ground perpendicular to the edge machined in this video you will have to regrind the fence edge each time you have moved it. To avoid regrinding the fence each time you would have to grind the contact surface of the fence and its contacting face on the magnetic chuck.
I think I might have stiffened that piece of angle with a hunk of box beam or even just a 2x4.
...Buying used tools, such as this and other 'larger' home shop machines....can be extremely frustrating when a couple small parts are lost/missing and no-one can recall what they look like? A friend of mine had a nice home machine shop....caught fire and burned to the ground....He gave me a few Tools, one is a 'universal cutter grinder'....has the major parts Base, and motor with spindle...also $250 CBN cup wheel....but arbor and spacers are missing....also the SUPER-MAX mill and new Japanese lathe were destroyed by combination of heat...and water from hoses.....sent off to the scrap yard by well-meaning grandson doing clean-up (Well Grandpa'....it was just a bunch of rusty metal stuff)........no tellin' the condition of that stuff....? I drove to junkyard and did retrieve a nice drilling machine....2 spindles, brand new motors in the boxes, 30"-48" table with coolant rail....cast iron legs....
Keith sense you have a stand in fence why not cast a iron one bound to be cheaper than $75 probably my foundry guy charge $20 or so. don't know what cattail would charge.
Yeah, but I would have to make a pattern first. Time is money....
I Love building patterns
Never fails, you go to do something and it turns into another project...
Fence won't repeat if taken off and replaced.
You grind it in again. It's basically a consumable. Think that you can modify it to suit various pieces, or even tools. A friend of mine that grinds professionally, has something like 20 different fences with cuts, slots, even attachment points for extensions, that themselves get ground and replaced as they wear out.
Got it. Good point and thank you for taking the time to respond.
I still don't the stresses induced when a bent piece of angle iron is socked to the vice.
Only have to chase bits and bobs one time, if.... Finding logical storage space for them is important. I can't remember where I laid down anything, any more. I've got to know where it's supposed to be and hope I didn't malfunction last time. It's another pain in the butt precursor to flippin' the switch, but for me, it's not as bad as knowing I had the damned thing once, but it walked away. For me, it's double frustrating to lose the widget I remember having. Growl.
As has been commented here, you may be over complicating the job of dressing the wheel. This can even be done free hand with carborundum if you're careful. But there are plenty of guys that will do the side dress of the wheel with a diamond clamped sideways in a grinding vice and then put a couple thousandths recess starting about 1/8th away from the rim using the grinders own adjustments.
Sometimes we get so caught up in doing it the way we were taught that we forget to consider if there might be an alternative method. I know I've been guilty of this many a time.
I think I'd have just put it on top of the magnetic chuck, and ground it that way.
unless its ground in position, it wont be 100 percent true though
bloody hell man, just hold the diamond by hand and shape the wheel, this is not a precision job
Really enjoy it. Let's check woodprix plans also.