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I need a smaller 3.1 WAF system for my mail living room. Primarily TV and music. I have a Denon 950. The shelf that I would like to put them on is a build-in and only 12.5” tall. I am trying to decide between the shorter speakers so I do not have to lay them on their side. What would you pick between the Paradigm 100B, Elac Debute Reference, and the Wharfdale 12.1. Which would you prefer out of those three. I could go larger but would have to lay them on their sides which is less than ideal. Thoughts?
Thank you so much for this video! I assume most people have a single living space that is for both music listening and home theater, and it's almost a requirement that the speakers are close to, if not mounted to, the wall. I wish speaker makers would design series' from the ground up that takes this into account.
@@cheapaudioman Any speaker company that wants to be in the surround sound business should have at least one series designed with wall-mounting in mind. And it should also be as good as possible for just music listening as well.
I own a pair of psbXt1 tower speakers. These speakers work very well in a corner or against the wall in fact the owners manual actually encourages wall experimentation for the kind of bass response that appeals to the listener as well as the room acoustics and size.
They were working on this for a while, but stopped after the rebellion found a way to exploit a very similar technology that was built into the Death Star.
My brain hurts from trying to solve physics to get a good sound at home. 😅I prolly can't hear it all anymore anyway. I'm frustrated this morning. But thank you for trying to help. Your channel is terrific! After trying to sort this stuff, I'm starting to guess why it's expensive. (Hours and hours and hours....)
Linn loudspeakers from 90s, and all my 80s Snell models always advocated near wall placement, except when using rear tweeters that came with some models. Good episode!
Yes you’re right. I worked for a Linn dealer in the early 90’s and the Linn Kaber floor standers, the Linn Helix, and my favorite, the Linn Nexus LS-250 on Kustone stands, were all made to sound best very near the wall. Try to find a pair, though…
I have the BRO3's and a funny shaped room and they do a great job of filling out the space and not picky with the placement like my Q350'S, Klipsch Blacks or my old Axioms. And I got them for $400 CAD, so they have been well worth it.
Larsen speakers were designed to work WITH the wall, and are amazing. Also, add vanatoo transparent one, pair with a sub, it cuts off low frequency from the mains.
Thanks for this, I have a tiny living room so pulling a speaker a foot out from the wall really chews up real estate. Super glad to see the B1+ on here...I think that speaker sounded great and is a great price.
Good video, Randy. I listen in my living room and at one time had huge Tekton Double Impacts pulled out into the room. One day I thought to myself, "I feel like these speakers have made me their b*tch. They've annexed my living room. I want my space back!" I sold them and bought a pair of Larsen speakers (thanks to Joe & Tell for bringing them to my attention). They are designed to go right up tight against the wall. I've been a real fan of Larsen ever since.
@@daniannaci3258 i went through Michael Vamos at Audio Skies. Michael is a great guy to work with and a lot of fun to talk to. Audio Skies is in LA and I'm over in southwest MI. He found me a dealer in WI and we were off and running.
this clip will be very useful for so many audiophiles who do to space limitations cannot put their book shelfs further out into their listening room.bravo,c.a.m.!
Many thanks. This is an under addressed topic. I can vote for the Axiom M3 with a loose sock in the rear port. They have a side wall bracket as an optional extra - extra safe when living with little ones. The slightly smaller M2 might be even better but I haven't heard them.
Not sure why it took me so long to watch this video. I upgraded my speakers a little over a year ago. After much research I bought a pair of Elac Uni-fi 2. ub52 speakers. Love them. I had them tucked in a corner with the fireplace between them. They were about 12" from the wall. In the last few day I've watched numerous videos on speaker placement all saying pull them out in, even in smaller rooms. So, today I did. After listening to several songs in both positions. I pushed them back where they had been.
Thank you for your video! I have Klipsch R50M in two rooms, both are about 5" off the wall. Ones are in a larger room are paired with a Klipsch KSW12 subwoofer. Another pair is in a smaller room. They both sound great.
Great vid. Most of us don’t have the space so good to see someone tackling the subject. BTW, landed in Austin today. Holy F..k how do you guys stand that heat. Thank god for air conditioning. 👍
Hi Randy, thank you for your work! Always inspiring. I have my Q acoustic concept 30 really tight in corners (!!) (only option in my living room). Suprisingly they still perform good. Soundstage is less deep but still very wide. I know they can sound better but I was surprised by the sound.
Thank you for your feedback. I am considering the concept 30 in a very small living room and quite close to the wall (12in or less). Hopefully it will work.
I started following your channel a few months ago as I got more serious about setting up a 2 channel system. I had mostly made up my mind with what I was going to purchase and when the Elac sale kicked off last week I pulled the trigger on the UBR62's. So timely video, as the the speakers will need to cozy up to the wall with how our living room is setup. I think I remember you mentioning the distance from the wall thing in regards to the Elac's in another video. I also ordered the Schitt Vidar when they dropped the price, along with a Saga + because... why not add something else that's cool to the order. Thanks for the great content and advice. Cheers.
I use the RSL CG5’s. Front slot port. The height and depth are about 11.5”. While they do benefit from being away from the wall they are pretty flexible in room placement. They are popular with some reviewers but they don’t get a lot attention from the majority of the TH-cam channels.
I never heard of these speakers, so I just did a quick google search. Wow these look beautiful! Dying to know how they sound. Guess I’ll be checking out the reviews on these now! Thanks lol 😊
Agreed, Unifi 2.0 needed some bass reinforcement from the wall. I have some DCM Timeframe 600s that were made to be close to a wall with the transmission line design.
I'm using a pair of Emotiva B1+ speakers for my secondary PC. They sound great only 3.5" from the wall. The old Polk Monitor 10 sealed speakers in my main music system demand placement close to the wall (no more than 2 or 3"). I tried placing them a couple of feet from the wall, but all the magic disappeared.
Thank you! I have my Sony's about 5 inches off the wall at ear level. I really like them. Also, the KEF 150's actually have a wall mounting bracket and you can stuff the rear port. I called KEF at one point and they say this works really well.
Dali Menuets are great near or on a wall! Great episode and something not covered enough in reviews, as well as low volume play! Also Elac Carina ( And Vela) fire downward. I know not cheap but well engineered and sounding. Above all enjoyable
Thank you for this video! Unfortunately with how my living room is setup its very hard to place speakers more than 12" from the wall without them getting in the way so this is very important for me
The Fluance reference series also works well near a wall. You still do get a bit of room game even though they are front ported, but they kind of need it.
I have my Adam Audio A5X less than 12" from the wall, but with a GIK diffusion panel behind each of them. They really cleaned up the imaging. After I got the GIK's back there, I still pulled them further out, they sit about the center of the desk.
Great video - I love your videos that have “real world” relevance ( my wife would never allow speakers to be sitting in the room) What about the Polk ES series - reasonable cheap and have the same power port at the back so are designed to go against walls I have the ES20s and they are stunning would love your review
I think most sealed, front or bottom ports are best designed for being close to the wall. The rear ports typically needs some room to let the port breath. I wish more speakers were built without rear ports has I'm one that can't pull speakers out in the middle of my room.
I have Dali Oberon on wall speakers. They lack a little punch, but I've EQ'd this dip out with a micro 3000. Maybe it's more a Danish/Scandinavian thing to get speakers away from children and save some floorspace? EISA even has an on wall category now. Try some! They are all designed to be good off-axis as they're fixed. Cheers for the channel - you keep me entertained and informed 🙂🤘
@jamesbell7246 I'm very interested in these Dali On Wall speakers for a home gym which has no sound treatment, basically just an echo box, paired with a wiim amp, do you still like yours, what do you think of my plan?
I posted a couple of days ago on here to flag the Fyne Audio range of speakers. I have their f300 speakers and they are superb close to a wall. Having looked, I can't see my comment, so I've reposted now without the link to their website. I see there are a couple of other Fyne Audio aficionados here, so it's great to see folk using these brilliant speakers!
Randy really appreciate this info - even 2 years later. But…. There is a small wooden stand mount just over your shoulder. What is that for a little looker?
I have Elac Debut bookshelf speakers (rear port) from Crutchfield 5 or 6 years ago I think. I bought them on a humbug over their size (small shelf near the ceiling in my office) and I think they were on sale or discounted. A NAD 7240 receiver runs them and I liked them so much I bought a second pair and put them on the other end of the office being the NAD allows me to switch between which side (or both sides) play.
I have a pair of the Elac debut 6.2's on my dresser. All the way back about 1/2" from the wall and they sound good but I'm starting to get the itch to start speaker shopping again.
I recently got the Monitor audio Bronze 2's because of there forward firing port and about 2 inch of the back wall slightly toed in and they sound really epic with my Marantz PM7000N..😁👍
Good video. Not all of us can do what LOTS says and pull speakers far out into the room so they can be knocked over by small kids, fat cats, or large dogs. It is good that at least some speakers are designed for more "real world" applications where we HAVE to put them near a wall, even in a corner. One thing to perhaps clarify, when you are measuring the distance to the wall are you measuring from the front baffle of the speaker (where the drivers are) or from the rear of the speaker? Thanks.
I haven't read all the comments so not sure if this is a repeat....but as of your live stream on the 12th you had NOT raised your subwoofer when someone asked your opinion of raising one. If I saw correctly, you have a raised subwoofer in your living room. How does it sound and worth the effort? A video would be cool to do on that alone. Keep up the good work Randy!!
I have the Polk R100s about 6.5" from the wall, and I think it sounds pretty good at the lower volumes I usually listen. I set up an EQ to lower the bass a little when I play it loud to take a little boom out from the wall and I think it works pretty well.
I'd like to add a point about this - a rear port does need *some* room to function i.e. have a bit more air space around the port than the port itself. This keeps the tuning of the port as intended. BUT bass is essentially is *omnidirectional* - so where the port is located makes only a small difference to the room lift - the dimension of the cabinet depth is not all that close to the wavelength of the bass frequencies. This aspect of a speaker design *is* about bass *tuning* - if the port has a bass bump, then it may require it to be farther from the wall. But if the tuning is more even, or gently rolled off (like a sealed speaker typically is), then room lift is very good thing! Elac BS-41 is essentially flat to ~42Hz with the back within about 8" of the wall, in my room. Which is fantastic for a speaker with a nominal 4" mid/woofer. Getting the best possible tonal balance is more important to me, than imaging. Getting as much bass from the main speakers as possible means that integrating a sub is better/easier.
there are a couple wall mounted pairs of magnepans. Best part about those is they dont even sit on the floor, worst part is they're fairly small so they need a sub.
I need speakers to go within an inch of the wall in my man cave. The Bowers & Wilkins 686 S2 sound glorious. They are still easy to find on eBay. They are front ported.
I've had the same speakers since 1974. They're acoustic suspension that was the preferred design back then. I keep them in the corner of my living room and actually point them slightly wide and away. 12in woofer with 2way twin 1in tweeters on 8in stands. I added an SVS sub and it really seemed to brighten the whole set up. I was curious about new speakers, largely because of so many ads. I noticed that most of the new ported towers need to be way from walls. So I watched this. Not many acoustic suspension speakers anymore, most are legacy.
you said "obelisk"....lol....Denton 80th - running mine 9.5" toe in a few degrees. (as far as I dare put them into a 12'x12' room with a futon and a desk in it on other walls) Any further out and the left speaker could be walked into by someone coming though the door to the room. I added wall treatment to minimize the bass. Works well.
I know it's bumping the price up a bit but the ProAc Tablette 10, Harbeth P3ESR & Neat Petite 30 [Classic] are all supposed to deliver excellent sound when used in a small soundspace
I have the Sony bookshelf actually on a bookshelf with about 8 inches of space from the back of the shelf unit. They sound great! Condo life does not give me a lot of floor space.
@@NosEL34 I am thinking about doing that, maybe something basic like a cork pad. I don't have a lot of space for too much elevation of the speaker though.
@@SuperRhondalynn a buddy of mine uses little square cork pads to keep his little bookshelves from rattling too much on a table. He says it makes a difference as to how loud they sound in the next room. Just some generic brand, think he said like 15 bucks for 4 of them...but he does play his speakers loud lol
I use the Elac Debut Reference front stage for the front stage of my home theater system. A big deciding factor was the front port because I have a small room. I’m pretty happy with the choice
I wonder if the elac 2nd generation or the Sonys would be great for surround sound side speakers and front and back height speakers for dolby atmos... As well as All Channel stereo listening
Thanks for great content! What about the Polk s or es bookshelf series? With their rear flared port it looks like they could work. I have a pair of s60 speakers and love them and would like to put es20s in my basement, but they would have to be on the wall.
Great video! I don’t think you’ve done a review on the Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2. What made you not like them? Just wondering what I’m missing out on because I have them and love them. Wanna get an idea of what would be a good upgrade in the future.
Hi Randy, little off this topic, I have been comparing the Geshiile DAC with the built in on my McIntosh c50 preamp. I have to report I like the Geshiile DAC better! Richer midrange,wider and deeper soundstage and more detailed high end. I also hear the room better on the recording, as well as high pitch notes. It’s almost too much info, until I used my built in eq on the c50 and tone down the highs a bit. I tried a Gustard Pro 26 but returned it to Amazon, it sounded similar to the Geshiile, but it was not $1500 better than the McIntosh DAC. I thank you for reviewing the Geshiile DAC, I bought it solely on your recommendation. My other gear is Klipsch Hersey IV’s, Magnepan LRS, big ass McIntosh mc352 SS amp and a Carver Crimson 275 tube amp. A WiiM streamer, VPI Prime TT with Ortofon Quintet black cartridge and an IFi zen phono preamp that I like the sound better than my c50’s built in phono preamp. The carver sounds better to me than the McIntosh SS app for less than 1/2 the price. I cannot imagine a DAC sounding better than the Geshiile! Thanks! You should review the Carver Crimsons 275 tube amp. It’s under 2k, comes with 5 year warranty on everything including the tubes. I think is sounds as good as the McIntosh mc275 for 6K.
I am installing an in home sound system, using small wall mount speakers. The house is already hardwired throughout... I will be using a Sony CDP-CX355 unit as the source with a 6 or 8 zone audio distribution control. Can you recommend a decent control unit and suitable speakers? (cheap of course) ☺
Been looking for smaller speakers to replace Paradigm Monitor 7s in my smaller 10X12 ish office. Really enjoy your reviews. Just pulled the trigger in the Emotiva B1+ from your link. They’ll be running on vintage Carver M500-t amp and C-1 pre. Both have been upgraded. Been using older Yamaha 6390 speakers in the interim. Hoping for significant improvement.
This is really helpful...lots of folks have this problem. This might be fun to update once in a while, as new speakers come out. Well, fun for us and more work for you, Randy. ; )
Hey Randy, thanks for this very helpful video! One question: when you talk about the distance from the wall do you mean to the back of the speaker or to the front of the speaker?
My bookshelf speakers are closer to the wall then I would like. They are also on top of bookshelves. I would love to have them out and on stands. My wife had other ideas and since I do not like sleeping in the garage they are on top of shelves.
Vintage Dynaco A25 actually had brackets in the back so they can hung right against a wall. I'll go further: mine (A25XL) are installed horizontally, in enclosed shelves (alcove). And they sound awesome. Bookshelf speakers that can actually be installed on shelves! Power comes from a Pioneer SX-720.
On topic for me. Downsizing and in the process of buying a 1000 Sf house. Thanks as always! Would love to see you do a review of the Ohm micro tall, unfortunately not exactly cheap.
"We're not all Maniacs that have three feet to pull our speakers out from the wall." lmao the L.O.T.S. thumbnail was displayed on top of my suggestions list while you said that. Thanks to your live stream with New Record Day last week, I learned about his channel.
What on earth compelled you to do a video on this? It's exactly what I needed to know. What about the Polk S15 and S20? They seem to be designed for close-to-wall placement with their "power port".
Would the advice for the jamo also apply to the s803s? Im thinking about buying an hcs based on those, but my room is ultra small (9 x 12 ft2) and they must be slammed against the wall 😅. EDIT: Would a klipsch reference home theater pack be a better idea for such a small room? I would be upgrading from rinky dinky logitech z506 5.1 by the way, so I suppose anything would be massively better 😅😅
I feel the Dayton B652's (and the AIR model) both sound better closer to the wall. I used them on my PC desk for a few years about 3" off the wall. It definitely helped fill out the bass a bit and give more impact when gaming.
Good for you! I was going to mention these, but you beat me to it! Astounding speakers for $60/pair. Tweeter is amazing. I use these on my desktop. But I’ll confess im going to audition a pair of Sonus Faber Lumina I’s as a possible upgrade.
@@daniannaci3258 I enjoy the detail in that Air tweeter, even though it fatigue's me in extended music listening. Upgraded to Elac BS41's and am very happy so far. Good lock with those Sonus'
@@absufan I have an elderly NAD 3020 powering those B652s and the the tweezers are as smooth as silk. Lucky combination I guess. Though, those cardboard speaker cabinets can’t be helped 😆.
What about acoustic suspension speakers? Has everyone forgotten the invention by Edgar Vilchur and Henry Kloss? There are some speakers available that lack ports altogether.
@cheapaudioman - I've had my eye on the Arendal 1961 bookshelf speakers. I guess you haven't reviewed that one, but Erin, Nemo, and others have been pretty impressed with it. It's really quite small, sealed, and must be a good candidate in this category too. In fact, Erin did a KLIPPEL "on-wall" measurement for that one-the results are quite interesting. This particular speaker has keyhole and VESA mounting options on the back, as well, kinda begging to be wall mounted. I am definitely space and configuration constrained here. That reminds me, what are your thoughts on bookshelf speakers placed on an actually bookshelf? I see more chill "audiophiles" do this sometimes (with the right speakers and postion) and pack albums or books/magazines on the shelves around the speakers.
Unless you are fortunate enough to have a dedicated audio room, you pretty much need to have speakers that work well close to a wall ( but try to keep them out of the corners if possible). My vintage Dynaco A-25’s) not only work well close to a wall but even have brackets on the back to hang directly on the wall. My vintage Avant 5ax’s are a sealed design like the KLH 5’s and are sized like the JBL L100’s and also work well close to the wall. Also, the Castle Knight series (3,4 &5….I have the 5’s) are transmission line towers, bottom ported and can be placed close to the wall. The Zu Dirty Weekends (especially the new DW6) are also bottom ported and work well close to the wall. To name a few!
I am looking for a speaker that I need to put up against a wall for use on my computer / office system. I am looking to upgrade that sound system since I spend most of my time by my computer. I have the Sony SSCS5's already, but the rear port on that prevents placement up against the wall. On your list of speakers above, it would seem the Elac 2nd generation would be a good choice, but I am looking for something a bit smaller yet, and a bit less pricey. A while back you reviewed a speaker by the name of Neumi BS5. It is a front ported speaker and I would be curious to know how these would perform up against the wall, if you tried them out in that scenario.
Great job, Randy. Question about the Jamo c93ii’s: would you consider inverting them if the tweeter is well above ear level when seated, or are they good enough for off-axis listening?
Thanks for this video. I have been looking for info like this as I have a small music room and believe I have too much speaker for it. I recently saw your review on the Wharfdale Denton 80th Anniversary speakers. They definitely have me intrigued. I especially like the fact that they look like you can bi-wire and amp them. A little more than $500 here in Canada, but might be worth serious consideration.
Do a video on 'classic' speakers. I have these JBL 4311B control monitors (front ported and against the wall) and have been wondering if I should replace them with something new.
I suppose mounting on wall speaker brackets is considered "close". I've yet to hear an opinion on whether these are recommended for holding speakers though, in comparison to stands or sitting on a bookshelf, from a sonic perspective. Thoughts?
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I need a smaller 3.1 WAF system for my mail living room. Primarily TV and music. I have a Denon 950. The shelf that I would like to put them on is a build-in and only 12.5” tall. I am trying to decide between the shorter speakers so I do not have to lay them on their side. What would you pick between the Paradigm 100B, Elac Debute Reference, and the Wharfdale 12.1. Which would you prefer out of those three. I could go larger but would have to lay them on their sides which is less than ideal. Thoughts?
Thank you so much for this video!
I assume most people have a single living space that is for both music listening and home theater, and it's almost a requirement that the speakers are close to, if not mounted to, the wall.
I wish speaker makers would design series' from the ground up that takes this into account.
So true! There are a few that do but you're right, most don't
@@cheapaudioman Any speaker company that wants to be in the surround sound business should have at least one series designed with wall-mounting in mind. And it should also be as good as possible for just music listening as well.
This is much needed information Randy. I have a very small room where my system will go and I didn't even think of speaker space. Cheers.
Excellent!
I own a pair of psbXt1 tower speakers. These speakers work very well in a corner or against the wall in fact the owners manual actually encourages wall experimentation for the kind of bass response that appeals to the listener as well as the room acoustics and size.
Sith Audio Rear Port to Front Port Adapter needs to be invented! Think PVC tubes like the Blue Man Group.
They were working on this for a while, but stopped after the rebellion found a way to exploit a very similar technology that was built into the Death Star.
Except that the tube would significantly alter the length and tuning of the port, so no.
But of course you knew that, right?
Sith Plinths? Say that 10 times fast.....
My brain hurts from trying to solve physics to get a good sound at home. 😅I prolly can't hear it all anymore anyway. I'm frustrated this morning. But thank you for trying to help. Your channel is terrific! After trying to sort this stuff, I'm starting to guess why it's expensive. (Hours and hours and hours....)
Nice lighting and white balance on this one. Looking sharp!
Linn loudspeakers from 90s, and all my 80s Snell models always advocated near wall placement, except when using rear tweeters that came with some models. Good episode!
Yes you’re right. I worked for a Linn dealer in the early 90’s and the Linn Kaber floor standers, the Linn Helix, and my favorite, the Linn Nexus LS-250 on Kustone stands, were all made to sound best very near the wall. Try to find a pair, though…
I have the BRO3's and a funny shaped room and they do a great job of filling out the space and not picky with the placement like my Q350'S, Klipsch Blacks or my old Axioms.
And I got them for $400 CAD, so they have been well worth it.
nice. with them down below $400 I think it's a solid speaker to consider
@@cheapaudioman very helpful review! I need another set for a tight space, so this was a timely video.
Larsen speakers were designed to work WITH the wall, and are amazing. Also, add vanatoo transparent one, pair with a sub, it cuts off low frequency from the mains.
Thanks for this, I have a tiny living room so pulling a speaker a foot out from the wall really chews up real estate. Super glad to see the B1+ on here...I think that speaker sounded great and is a great price.
Great Video. Practical advice is always needed and appreciated. I have my Goldenear BRX'S between 12 and 18 inches from a wall. They sound great.
Good video, Randy. I listen in my living room and at one time had huge Tekton Double Impacts pulled out into the room. One day I thought to myself, "I feel like these speakers have made me their b*tch. They've annexed my living room. I want my space back!" I sold them and bought a pair of Larsen speakers (thanks to Joe & Tell for bringing them to my attention). They are designed to go right up tight against the wall. I've been a real fan of Larsen ever since.
Darn good choice. I’m heard the Larsen’s at a show and was beguiled. No dealer anywhere near me, though. Sigh.
@@daniannaci3258 i went through Michael Vamos at Audio Skies. Michael is a great guy to work with and a lot of fun to talk to. Audio Skies is in LA and I'm over in southwest MI. He found me a dealer in WI and we were off and running.
Woooooo!!! The video I asked for! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! 💪💪💪
this clip will be very useful for so many audiophiles who do to space limitations cannot put their book shelfs further out into their listening room.bravo,c.a.m.!
Many thanks. This is an under addressed topic. I can vote for the Axiom M3 with a loose sock in the rear port. They have a side wall bracket as an optional extra - extra safe when living with little ones. The slightly smaller M2 might be even better but I haven't heard them.
Not sure why it took me so long to watch this video. I upgraded my speakers a little over a year ago. After much research I bought a pair of Elac Uni-fi 2. ub52 speakers. Love them. I had them tucked in a corner with the fireplace between them. They were about 12" from the wall. In the last few day I've watched numerous videos on speaker placement all saying pull them out in, even in smaller rooms. So, today I did. After listening to several songs in both positions. I pushed them back where they had been.
Thank you for your video!
I have Klipsch R50M in two rooms, both are about 5" off the wall. Ones are in a larger room are paired with a Klipsch KSW12 subwoofer. Another pair is in a smaller room. They both sound great.
Great points that are often overlooked when purchasing a speaker.
Great coverage Randy. Kudos to you and who ever provided the video. Wish I would of spotted you around on Saturday. All the best.
Great vid. Most of us don’t have the space so good to see someone tackling the subject.
BTW, landed in Austin today. Holy F..k how do you guys stand that heat. Thank god for air conditioning. 👍
Hi Randy, thank you for your work! Always inspiring. I have my Q acoustic concept 30 really tight in corners (!!) (only option in my living room). Suprisingly they still perform good. Soundstage is less deep but still very wide. I know they can sound better but I was surprised by the sound.
Thank you for your feedback. I am considering the concept 30 in a very small living room and quite close to the wall (12in or less). Hopefully it will work.
I have my Jamo S807 towers right smack against the wall in our bedroom. I’m repeatedly amazed how good they sound.
I started following your channel a few months ago as I got more serious about setting up a 2 channel system. I had mostly made up my mind with what I was going to purchase and when the Elac sale kicked off last week I pulled the trigger on the UBR62's. So timely video, as the the speakers will need to cozy up to the wall with how our living room is setup. I think I remember you mentioning the distance from the wall thing in regards to the Elac's in another video. I also ordered the Schitt Vidar when they dropped the price, along with a Saga + because... why not add something else that's cool to the order.
Thanks for the great content and advice. Cheers.
I use the RSL CG5’s. Front slot port. The height and depth are about 11.5”. While they do benefit from being away from the wall they are pretty flexible in room placement. They are popular with some reviewers but they don’t get a lot attention from the majority of the TH-cam channels.
I never heard of these speakers, so I just did a quick google search. Wow these look beautiful! Dying to know how they sound. Guess I’ll be checking out the reviews on these now! Thanks lol 😊
@@NoEscape459 check out the Audioholics review as well as Jim Wilson’s on avsforum.
Agreed, Unifi 2.0 needed some bass reinforcement from the wall. I have some DCM Timeframe 600s that were made to be close to a wall with the transmission line design.
I still have my DCM Time-frame 600s...but I have them about 3 feet from the wall...
I'm using a pair of Emotiva B1+ speakers for my secondary PC. They sound great only 3.5" from the wall. The old Polk Monitor 10 sealed speakers in my main music system demand placement close to the wall (no more than 2 or 3"). I tried placing them a couple of feet from the wall, but all the magic disappeared.
Thank you! I have my Sony's about 5 inches off the wall at ear level. I really like them. Also, the KEF 150's actually have a wall mounting bracket and you can stuff the rear port. I called KEF at one point and they say this works really well.
What did they recommend stuffing the port with?
@@spamcan9208 The speakers actually ship with foam plugs
@@alanmodimages that's clever, too bad more companies don't do that.
Dali Menuets are great near or on a wall! Great episode and something not covered enough in reviews, as well as low volume play! Also Elac Carina ( And Vela) fire downward. I know not cheap but well engineered and sounding. Above all enjoyable
Great idea for a video! With Christmas coming up, all the cheap audiophile enthusiasts need to finalize their list!
Great review from the cheap audio man. Larger speakers - Zu speakers and Ohm speakers are bottom ported. Klipsch Cornwalls are front ported.
Thank you for this video! Unfortunately with how my living room is setup its very hard to place speakers more than 12" from the wall without them getting in the way so this is very important for me
The Fluance reference series also works well near a wall. You still do get a bit of room game even though they are front ported, but they kind of need it.
I have my Adam Audio A5X less than 12" from the wall, but with a GIK diffusion panel behind each of them. They really cleaned up the imaging. After I got the GIK's back there, I still pulled them further out, they sit about the center of the desk.
Same for A3x
Great video - I love your videos that have “real world” relevance ( my wife would never allow speakers to be sitting in the room)
What about the Polk ES series - reasonable cheap and have the same power port at the back so are designed to go against walls
I have the ES20s and they are stunning would love your review
I think most sealed, front or bottom ports are best designed for being close to the wall. The rear ports typically needs some room to let the port breath. I wish more speakers were built without rear ports has I'm one that can't pull speakers out in the middle of my room.
I have Dali Oberon on wall speakers. They lack a little punch, but I've EQ'd this dip out with a micro 3000. Maybe it's more a Danish/Scandinavian thing to get speakers away from children and save some floorspace? EISA even has an on wall category now. Try some! They are all designed to be good off-axis as they're fixed. Cheers for the channel - you keep me entertained and informed 🙂🤘
@jamesbell7246 I'm very interested in these Dali On Wall speakers for a home gym which has no sound treatment, basically just an echo box, paired with a wiim amp, do you still like yours, what do you think of my plan?
Larsen (former Carlsson) speakers are designed to be placed up against the wall. Great speakers.
I posted a couple of days ago on here to flag the Fyne Audio range of speakers. I have their f300 speakers and they are superb close to a wall. Having looked, I can't see my comment, so I've reposted now without the link to their website. I see there are a couple of other Fyne Audio aficionados here, so it's great to see folk using these brilliant speakers!
Randy really appreciate this info - even 2 years later. But…. There is a small wooden stand mount just over your shoulder. What is that for a little looker?
I have Elac Debut bookshelf speakers (rear port) from Crutchfield 5 or 6 years ago I think. I bought them on a humbug over their size (small shelf near the ceiling in my office) and I think they were on sale or discounted. A NAD 7240 receiver runs them and I liked them so much I bought a second pair and put them on the other end of the office being the NAD allows me to switch between which side (or both sides) play.
I have a pair of the Elac debut 6.2's on my dresser. All the way back about 1/2" from the wall and they sound good but I'm starting to get the itch to start speaker shopping again.
Ok…. SITH AUDIO is amazing 😂, but ELAC and Andrew Jones are also LEGENDS😍😍😍 also the Emotiva offerings are fantastic!! ❤️
Couldn't agree more!
I recently got the Monitor audio Bronze 2's because of there forward firing port and about 2 inch of the back wall slightly toed in and they sound really epic with my Marantz PM7000N..😁👍
Good video. Not all of us can do what LOTS says and pull speakers far out into the room so they can be knocked over by small kids, fat cats, or large dogs. It is good that at least some speakers are designed for more "real world" applications where we HAVE to put them near a wall, even in a corner.
One thing to perhaps clarify, when you are measuring the distance to the wall are you measuring from the front baffle of the speaker (where the drivers are) or from the rear of the speaker? Thanks.
I haven't read all the comments so not sure if this is a repeat....but as of your live stream on the 12th you had NOT raised your subwoofer when someone asked your opinion of raising one. If I saw correctly, you have a raised subwoofer in your living room. How does it sound and worth the effort? A video would be cool to do on that alone. Keep up the good work Randy!!
I have the Polk R100s about 6.5" from the wall, and I think it sounds pretty good at the lower volumes I usually listen. I set up an EQ to lower the bass a little when I play it loud to take a little boom out from the wall and I think it works pretty well.
I'd like to add a point about this - a rear port does need *some* room to function i.e. have a bit more air space around the port than the port itself. This keeps the tuning of the port as intended.
BUT bass is essentially is *omnidirectional* - so where the port is located makes only a small difference to the room lift - the dimension of the cabinet depth is not all that close to the wavelength of the bass frequencies.
This aspect of a speaker design *is* about bass *tuning* - if the port has a bass bump, then it may require it to be farther from the wall. But if the tuning is more even, or gently rolled off (like a sealed speaker typically is), then room lift is very good thing!
Elac BS-41 is essentially flat to ~42Hz with the back within about 8" of the wall, in my room. Which is fantastic for a speaker with a nominal 4" mid/woofer.
Getting the best possible tonal balance is more important to me, than imaging. Getting as much bass from the main speakers as possible means that integrating a sub is better/easier.
What about Klipsch RP-500M and Q Acoustics 3020i that were in your past videos ?
there are a couple wall mounted pairs of magnepans. Best part about those is they dont even sit on the floor, worst part is they're fairly small so they need a sub.
I need speakers to go within an inch of the wall in my man cave. The Bowers & Wilkins 686 S2 sound glorious. They are still easy to find on eBay. They are front ported.
I have the Reference 2.0 in my office _because_ they work so well against a wall and they really sound great!
I've had the same speakers since 1974. They're acoustic suspension that was the preferred design back then. I keep them in the corner of my living room and actually point them slightly wide and away. 12in woofer with 2way twin 1in tweeters on 8in stands. I added an SVS sub and it really seemed to brighten the whole set up. I was curious about new speakers, largely because of so many ads. I noticed that most of the new ported towers need to be way from walls. So I watched this. Not many acoustic suspension speakers anymore, most are legacy.
you said "obelisk"....lol....Denton 80th - running mine 9.5" toe in a few degrees. (as far as I dare put them into a 12'x12' room with a futon and a desk in it on other walls) Any further out and the left speaker could be walked into by someone coming though the door to the room. I added wall treatment to minimize the bass. Works well.
Great Vid Randy. Love your content. I sprung for a pair of Elac UNI-FI 5.2s and powering them with the Emotiva Basx A2. Incredible bang for the buck.
It follows that these would all make really good surround speakers since they're usually near or on the wall.
I know it's bumping the price up a bit but the ProAc Tablette 10, Harbeth P3ESR & Neat Petite 30 [Classic] are all supposed to deliver excellent sound when used in a small soundspace
What a video ! So much information ! I am going on watching it for the 3rd time.
I have the Sony bookshelf actually on a bookshelf with about 8 inches of space from the back of the shelf unit. They sound great! Condo life does not give me a lot of floor space.
yeah. they do well right on a wall
I bet putting them on some iso-acoustics or something similar would really help the sound as well as keeping the rumble quiet to the neighbors.
@@NosEL34 I am thinking about doing that, maybe something basic like a cork pad. I don't have a lot of space for too much elevation of the speaker though.
@@SuperRhondalynn a buddy of mine uses little square cork pads to keep his little bookshelves from rattling too much on a table. He says it makes a difference as to how loud they sound in the next room. Just some generic brand, think he said like 15 bucks for 4 of them...but he does play his speakers loud lol
I use the Elac Debut Reference front stage for the front stage of my home theater system. A big deciding factor was the front port because I have a small room. I’m pretty happy with the choice
LOL I am watching this way after the initial post, but hey, better late to the party than never! Thanks ; )
I wonder if the elac 2nd generation or the Sonys would be great for surround sound side speakers and front and back height speakers for dolby atmos... As well as All Channel stereo listening
Thanks for great content! What about the Polk s or es bookshelf series? With their rear flared port it looks like they could work. I have a pair of s60 speakers and love them and would like to put es20s in my basement, but they would have to be on the wall.
Great video! I don’t think you’ve done a review on the Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2. What made you not like them? Just wondering what I’m missing out on because I have them and love them. Wanna get an idea of what would be a good upgrade in the future.
I am waiting for Sith Audio Audiophile adjustable wall ports. No need to worry about speakers against a wall that is ported!
Love this type of video. Thank you randy
Very welcome
Hey Randy don’t forget about the Front ported Klipsch RB-61 2s
Hi Randy, little off this topic, I have been comparing the Geshiile DAC with the built in on my McIntosh c50 preamp. I have to report I like the Geshiile DAC better! Richer midrange,wider and deeper soundstage and more detailed high end. I also hear the room better on the recording, as well as high pitch notes. It’s almost too much info, until I used my built in eq on the c50 and tone down the highs a bit. I tried a Gustard Pro 26 but returned it to Amazon, it sounded similar to the Geshiile, but it was not $1500 better than the McIntosh DAC. I thank you for reviewing the Geshiile DAC, I bought it solely on your recommendation. My other gear is Klipsch Hersey IV’s, Magnepan LRS, big ass McIntosh mc352 SS amp and a Carver Crimson 275 tube amp. A WiiM streamer, VPI Prime TT with Ortofon Quintet black cartridge and an IFi zen phono preamp that I like the sound better than my c50’s built in phono preamp. The carver sounds better to me than the McIntosh SS app for less than 1/2 the price. I cannot imagine a DAC sounding better than the Geshiile! Thanks! You should review the Carver Crimsons 275 tube amp. It’s under 2k, comes with 5 year warranty on everything including the tubes. I think is sounds as good as the McIntosh mc275 for 6K.
Totem Sky, even though rear ported... Right up against the wall seem to work better(sound fuller) than out in the room.
Great video. Keep ‘em coming
More to come!
I am installing an in home sound system, using small wall mount speakers. The house is already hardwired throughout...
I will be using a Sony CDP-CX355 unit as the source with a 6 or 8 zone audio distribution control. Can you recommend a decent control unit and suitable speakers? (cheap of course) ☺
Been looking for smaller speakers to replace Paradigm Monitor 7s in my smaller 10X12 ish office. Really enjoy your reviews. Just pulled the trigger in the Emotiva B1+ from your link. They’ll be running on vintage Carver M500-t amp and C-1 pre. Both have been upgraded. Been using older Yamaha 6390 speakers in the interim. Hoping for significant improvement.
This is really helpful...lots of folks have this problem. This might be fun to update once in a while, as new speakers come out. Well, fun for us and more work for you, Randy. ; )
Hey Randy, thanks for this very helpful video!
One question: when you talk about the distance from the wall do you mean to the back of the speaker or to the front of the speaker?
My bookshelf speakers are closer to the wall then I would like. They are also on top of bookshelves. I would love to have them out and on stands. My wife had other ideas and since I do not like sleeping in the garage they are on top of shelves.
Probably not considered strictly budget, but I've found Totem standmounts work and image really well close to walls. Dreamcatchers, Rainmaker etc.
Vintage Dynaco A25 actually had brackets in the back so they can hung right against a wall. I'll go further: mine (A25XL) are installed horizontally, in enclosed shelves (alcove). And they sound awesome. Bookshelf speakers that can actually be installed on shelves! Power comes from a Pioneer SX-720.
Those Dyna’s, like early Advents and EPI’s, just always sounded, well, right.
Klipsch RB 61s !! Front ported 600
On topic for me. Downsizing and in the process of buying a 1000 Sf house. Thanks as always!
Would love to see you do a review of the Ohm micro tall, unfortunately not exactly cheap.
"We're not all Maniacs that have three feet to pull our speakers out from the wall." lmao the L.O.T.S. thumbnail was displayed on top of my suggestions list while you said that. Thanks to your live stream with New Record Day last week, I learned about his channel.
Thanks for the view
What on earth compelled you to do a video on this? It's exactly what I needed to know.
What about the Polk S15 and S20? They seem to be designed for close-to-wall placement with their "power port".
You should check out Larsen speakers, made for wallplacing!
Would the advice for the jamo also apply to the s803s? Im thinking about buying an hcs based on those, but my room is ultra small (9 x 12 ft2) and they must be slammed against the wall 😅. EDIT: Would a klipsch reference home theater pack be a better idea for such a small room? I would be upgrading from rinky dinky logitech z506 5.1 by the way, so I suppose anything would be massively better 😅😅
I feel the Dayton B652's (and the AIR model) both sound better closer to the wall. I used them on my PC desk for a few years about 3" off the wall. It definitely helped fill out the bass a bit and give more impact when gaming.
Good for you! I was going to mention these, but you beat me to it! Astounding speakers for $60/pair. Tweeter is amazing. I use these on my desktop. But I’ll confess im going to audition a pair of Sonus Faber Lumina I’s as a possible upgrade.
@@daniannaci3258 I enjoy the detail in that Air tweeter, even though it fatigue's me in extended music listening. Upgraded to Elac BS41's and am very happy so far. Good lock with those Sonus'
@@absufan I have an elderly NAD 3020 powering those B652s and the the tweezers are as smooth as silk. Lucky combination I guess. Though, those cardboard speaker cabinets can’t be helped 😆.
How about the KEF Q150? I heard those are capable, as long as you seal up the rear port.
What about the Wharfedale 240s? Those are bottom port too.
What about acoustic suspension speakers? Has everyone forgotten the invention by Edgar Vilchur and Henry Kloss? There are some speakers available that lack ports altogether.
@cheapaudioman - I've had my eye on the Arendal 1961 bookshelf speakers. I guess you haven't reviewed that one, but Erin, Nemo, and others have been pretty impressed with it. It's really quite small, sealed, and must be a good candidate in this category too. In fact, Erin did a KLIPPEL "on-wall" measurement for that one-the results are quite interesting. This particular speaker has keyhole and VESA mounting options on the back, as well, kinda begging to be wall mounted. I am definitely space and configuration constrained here. That reminds me, what are your thoughts on bookshelf speakers placed on an actually bookshelf? I see more chill "audiophiles" do this sometimes (with the right speakers and postion) and pack albums or books/magazines on the shelves around the speakers.
Klipsch RP280FA to me sounds good about 1 foot from a back wall and about 16" from a side wall.
Unless you are fortunate enough to have a dedicated audio room, you pretty much need to have speakers that work well close to a wall ( but try to keep them out of the corners if possible). My vintage Dynaco A-25’s) not only work well close to a wall but even have brackets on the back to hang directly on the wall. My vintage Avant 5ax’s are a sealed design like the KLH 5’s and are sized like the JBL L100’s and also work well close to the wall. Also, the Castle Knight series (3,4 &5….I have the 5’s) are transmission line towers, bottom ported and can be placed close to the wall. The Zu Dirty Weekends (especially the new DW6) are also bottom ported and work well close to the wall. To name a few!
I am looking for a speaker that I need to put up against a wall for use on my computer / office system. I am looking to upgrade that sound system since I spend most of my time by my computer. I have the Sony SSCS5's already, but the rear port on that prevents placement up against the wall. On your list of speakers above, it would seem the Elac 2nd generation would be a good choice, but I am looking for something a bit smaller yet, and a bit less pricey. A while back you reviewed a speaker by the name of Neumi BS5. It is a front ported speaker and I would be curious to know how these would perform up against the wall, if you tried them out in that scenario.
What about the Focal Chora 806? Front ported
Apparently nobody likes Focal?
Great job, Randy. Question about the Jamo c93ii’s: would you consider inverting them if the tweeter is well above ear level when seated, or are they good enough for off-axis listening?
Buchardt s400 mkii? What would you recommend distance ethe wall?
My NHT classic 3 acoustic suspension speakers don't seem to care about close wall placement. Mandatory to have a sub for these speakers
Thanks for this video. I have been looking for info like this as I have a small music room and believe I have too much speaker for it.
I recently saw your review on the Wharfdale Denton 80th Anniversary speakers. They definitely have me intrigued.
I especially like the fact that they look like you can bi-wire and amp them. A little more than $500 here in Canada, but might be worth serious consideration.
Glad it was helpful!
Do a video on 'classic' speakers. I have these JBL 4311B control monitors (front ported and against the wall) and have been wondering if I should replace them with something new.
I suppose mounting on wall speaker brackets is considered "close". I've yet to hear an opinion on whether these are recommended for holding speakers though, in comparison to stands or sitting on a bookshelf, from a sonic perspective. Thoughts?
SITH AUDIO for POTUS 2024. 😂😂😂😂
You should try the Indiana Line Tesi 261, front reflex bookshelf designed in Italy, underrated and cheap imho