The Biggest Problem with Gladiator II

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 76

  • @AW-uv3cb
    @AW-uv3cb 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +69

    I've only seen the trailers so far, but I feel for Paul Mescal. It was always going to be a tough act trying to match Russel Crowe at his best (especially when the plots are so similar, inviting comparisons between the two lead characters). Crowe's Maximus had charisma pouring out of every pore, the script gave him such memorable lines and Crowe delivered them with so much gravitas underpinned with feeling. [Edited for clarity]

    • @Suztvfan
      @Suztvfan 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      Apperently a lot of the script in Gladiator was written on the spot, especially the dialogue. The dialogue was horrible so some of the greatest lines were from the actors themselves. For Example: the term Strength and Honor before fights. Crowe came up with that based on something like a school chant and the description of Maximus's home was based on Crowe's home in Australia.
      Everbody also knows about Phoenix's ad lib of: "Am I not Merciful?" scream

    • @VeamStream
      @VeamStream 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      i have a short film with all the important pieces on my channel if you're interested. don't pay to watch this, movie is my advice 😂

    • @Sharpe1502
      @Sharpe1502 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      No, Maximus was all Crowe. The script was apparently garbage and only a few memorable things from the actual script made it in the movie. But the majority of big characters things (miniatures of his family, strength and honor, touching his wife’s feet, etc.) were all recommended or improvised by Crowe. The “Husband of a murdered wife” speech was apparently one of the few things from the original script they kept.
      In my opinion, Mescal was at a disadvantage because he’s an actor who’s always had the benefit of acting with a great script and the characters all were very internal. The script to Gladiator 2 was not good, and Lucius was a flat character that was only supposed to feel rage (an emotion that Mescal isn’t super known for in his characters…) and was supposed to be a good fighter (again, why not exactly what you’d think of when you think of Mescal.)
      I’m not sure who I would’ve picked to play Lucius. Probably the guy who plays Aegon in House of the Dragon.

  • @AndyForestall
    @AndyForestall 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +53

    I feel like Gladiator II had the chance to make Hanno a villain in the eyes of Rome but chickened out in favour of making him Maximus 2.0. Hanno is filled with rage and hatred towards Rome. He's spent most of his life outside of it, witnessing firsthand that Rome is not "the light" that Maximus believed it was. Macrinus and Hanno both come from the same ethical place, wanting to tear Rome down and having the abilities to do so, but in the third act Macrinus instead suddenly wants to rule the empire and Hanno/Lucius suddenly wants to save it. Both having suffered under Rome, I expected more empathy from the characters towards the people crushed under the empire, but the vague "dream of Rome" is supposed to be the lynchpin reason for us to accept this change and it does. not. work.
    Look, I'm a boy. I liked the shit out of this movie. I like watching people stab each other in the Colosseum. I like Paul and Denzel. But damnit if I didn't want to like it so much more than I did, and you articulated it's flaws very nicely. Thumb up.

    • @donp8136
      @donp8136 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Right? At some point I thought that Hanno and Macrinus would work together, they had so much in common! Such a missed opportunity. And the speech at the end was a disappointment. The dialogue was terrible from the beginning, but then the film seemed to have something going for it and then... supervillain vs superhero.
      P.S. I'm a girl and I enjoyed the battles. Poor rhino though... What happened to him?

    • @deankruse2891
      @deankruse2891 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      They did have empathy for the people crushed under the boot of Rome. The doctor was from the east and his wife was from Britannia

  • @miguelsantos-cd9tu
    @miguelsantos-cd9tu 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +56

    Revealing that Lucius is Maximus's son is a mistake.
    This makes Maximus into a cheater given that in first movie is told that Lucius and his son have same age.
    His revenge against Commodus for killing his wife and son felt shallow because he had Lucilla as lover.

    • @LUIZS87
      @LUIZS87 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Not really a reveal. Possibility

    • @alexman378
      @alexman378 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

      Yup. Not only that, Maximus now has unfinished business and left his son to his own fate, when his movie was about tying up all loose ends. Really undermines the whole “strength and honor” aspect, as well as his prayers to his ancestors, telling them he tries to live with the dignity they taught him.
      I just can’t accept this as a sequel. It doesn’t make sense.

    • @bernicedavies5721
      @bernicedavies5721 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I think maximus’s son with his wife looks about 6 whereas Lucius is 12

    • @miguelsantos-cd9tu
      @miguelsantos-cd9tu 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @bernicedavies5721 I based information that they were same age based on line spoken by characters,Maximus and Lucilla.
      It's very common to actors not having age as characters.

    • @VeamStream
      @VeamStream 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      they did maximus so dirty, makes part 1 completely stupid if he had another woman and another son 😑

  • @Trank__2
    @Trank__2 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +22

    Nailed it again. This film could be studied in film schools. An obscene budget + 2.5 hour run time and what we get is a nonsensical story, caricature-esque characters and no likeable one to root for, and some cool special effects, I guess? And they basically made it seem like Maximus died for nothing since Rome is in the state it’s in in just 20 years. Hollywood is going through a collective brain rot it seems, judging by the recent mega-budget bad movies that basically insult the audience’s intelligence and taste.

  • @lord-licht
    @lord-licht 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    You analyse so well why the movie does not work on an emotional level, thank you for that! Personally, I have never been a fan of the type of stoic good guy male characters whose wives die for their development, but at least in the original Gladiator that was structured in a way that did actually work for the narrative. To kill the only two (2) female characters in a movie at this day and age AND miss the mark emotionally left me completely hollow and combined with all the things you mentioned made me care absolutely zero about Lucius, his motivations or his sudden rise to leadership that kind of just. happened. Moreover, the speeches were so flat and despite the dramatic score evoked no emotion whatsoever in me. I really wanted to enjoy the movie as just a big spectacle but even the spectacle fell short since the arena fights have little emotional impact. By the end I was more moved by the dynamic between Caracalla and Geta, and had ofc was living for Denzel’s Macrinus, but as you pointed out, the end for him was also incredibly badly done. And that’s without mentioning the quite frankly obscene historical inaccuracies.

  • @macdonnell.damien22
    @macdonnell.damien22 10 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    One of the major problems is that Maximus’s only son was killed with his mother at their estate in the original film. So canonically this doesn’t make a lot of sense.
    Another glaring issue is no matter who your father was, whole armies were very unlikely to follow an unknown 20 year old stranger with no combat experience just because his father may or may not have been a commander of legions in Britannia. They don’t know this man, he is not combat tested; it doesn’t add up at all.
    They played the nostalgia card and they disappointed us.

  • @SeanvanBerlo
    @SeanvanBerlo 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +28

    The only gripe I would have is you saying that the term 'Africa' wasn't used until the 17th century when there's a Roman general who famously took his cognomen (Scipio Africanus) from his invasion of the continent.

    • @jrrtalkin
      @jrrtalkin  9 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      Totally fair - my bad - I was thinking of the term for the continent rather than the northern region

    • @laisphinto6372
      @laisphinto6372 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      The Term was First used for the provinces of africa aka north africa

  • @svetlanaandrasova6086
    @svetlanaandrasova6086 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    If make a sequel at all, it should have been about Lucius and how senate stole his throne from him and tried to kill him,he escapes, gets captured and is thrown into gladiator schoool and he is decicated to get into Rome and Colosseum to fight for his throne.

  • @redsquirrel7572
    @redsquirrel7572 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    One of my biggest problems with Gladiator 2 is that the conceit of this film completely undermines the very satisfying ending of the first Gladiator. Maximus had a very clearly defined goal: kill Commodus and restore power to the senate, thereby getting personal revenge and also restoring Rome to a good moral state. But in Gladiator 2, Rome is just as corrupt if not worse, and apparently so dangerous that Lucius has to go into hiding (but just him and not Lucila too??) So Maximus’s death and story arc had no effect in the long run.
    This would be fine if the sequel didn’t want SO BADLY to remind us of the original. So much reuse of dialogue, scene framing, characters, etc. They even replay the Maximus’s death scene itself, making for a super jarring tonal shift from the somber, slow procession of Maximus’s body to the frantic energy of “Quick, my son! You must flee!!” I’m actually fine with sequels ret-conning things for the sake of telling their own good story. But in this case I’m left confused who their intended audience was? Clearly you want to appeal to fans of the first Gladiator, so why did you ruin its famously satisfying ending?

  • @madamoisellechampignon5340
    @madamoisellechampignon5340 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Omgah you literally expressed every little thought i had while watching this movie. I literally had to rewatch thr first 10 minutes of Gladiator bc i wanted to cleanse my mind after getting home from the theater. The cast had so much potential, but the writing utterly disappointed me. For how often i hear that Ridley Scott despises sentimentalism, the entire sequel felt like a nostalgic sentimentality. But not original at all. Sad.
    I already had low expectations, so i was surprised at how disappointed i felt after. And rage bc i honestly felt like i wasted my time xD

  • @wrldtrvlr4vr
    @wrldtrvlr4vr 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

    Gladiator II the movie no one asked or needed

    • @belovedobserver
      @belovedobserver 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      True. I don’t think I’ll see it anytime soon. It’s better than a shot for shot remake of the original with a new cast at least 😓

  • @Undone545
    @Undone545 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    I agree with you the story needed be one built from from its themes and moral assumptions. "The dream of rome" was the perfect motif because the dream made men like marcus, maximus and pedro pascal. However it put hannos wife to death, it exports wars and slavery upon the defeated. Hanno is a "product" of rome in every meaningful way. A product of its wealth and honour, and its barbarity. The tension of his character should have been (and is even though poorly done) does he join those men like pedro and live the dream he knows is a lie or does he join denzel and tear down dream and live a life devoid of hope

  • @adriantrejo8397
    @adriantrejo8397 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Do you think you're funny for coming up with the name J.R.R. Talkin'?.. Cause I do 👀..😂

  • @MrAzijn
    @MrAzijn 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    You're my favourite video essayist, love your work

  • @amalali504
    @amalali504 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Great analysis and totally agree. You've articulated perfectly why I felt indifferent to emotional plot of the film. Thank you.

  • @katjons_
    @katjons_ วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    This was a great and very thourough review! ✨️

  • @robynmarler1951
    @robynmarler1951 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    He hasn't got the face. It's important in movies.

  • @apricot8301
    @apricot8301 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    I was okay with giving the movie some leeway in not living up to the original, but as a standalone film it was really lacking. I was okay with almost everything up to the ending. Sure it wasnt amazing by any means, but it was fun and exciting and I was definitely hooked through out the entire film.
    But then the movie kind of just... ends? And I felt like the entire 2 hours leading up to it was kind of wasted. Like damn we went through all that and for what? One last lousy fight scene? Idk it definitely felt incomplete.
    Like the final fight scene I really enjoyed. The moment where Maximus's armor protects Hanno from the final blow was a really gripping moment, and tied the two movies together. But we didnt get any real build up to that moment! Hanno kind of just changes his desires and perspective mid-way and it doesnt feel like a genuine pay-off. If they would have had the movie built up to that one moment, and connecting the two films in such a way, I would have absolutely loved this film and been okay with everything up to it. But it felt more like a too little too late moment and I didn't resonate with it like I feel I should have.

  • @YaminoSeigi
    @YaminoSeigi 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I expect a Rome period epic from Gladiator 2 but got an expensive version of Hamlet instead

    • @onkelgreifenklau
      @onkelgreifenklau วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      omg, if only it were a version of Hamlet! What an absurd comparison. There’s not the slightest trace of Hamlet in Gladiator 2-

  • @conormcmullen6437
    @conormcmullen6437 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    Just found your channel and love your video style. Subscribed.

  • @redsquirrel7572
    @redsquirrel7572 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Well said! I had such an awful time with this movie, I hated it. Because of the story. A lot of bad reviews I’ve seen/read are really mean-spirited, because negativity sells. So it’s really refreshing to hear your review of “look, I appreciate all the hard work that the whole film crew did for this movie. But at the end of the day we’re telling a story. And this story is really poorly constructed.” I wholeheartedly agree.

  • @joywagner979
    @joywagner979 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I'm sad that this will be many people's first exposure to Paul Mescal, who is so good in all his other roles. Whatever happened here, I'm not sure, but maybe it's safe to just say "Ridley Scott is not the director he once was."

    • @onkelgreifenklau
      @onkelgreifenklau วันที่ผ่านมา

      I agree, but doubt that Mr Mescal had no idea what he was getting into. After all, you finger a script before you accept a role. However, I do hope to see some more independent movies with him - he‘s a indeed a brilliantly authentic actor.

    • @joywagner979
      @joywagner979 2 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@onkelgreifenklau oh, I agree he definitely knew what he was signing on to, and suspect he thought something like "I'm cast in this new Ridley Scott movie?!? Best get to channeling Russell Crowe, then! G'wan g'wan g'wan!"
      And then he ended up basically acting in an entirely different movie from everyone else.

  • @JustMe-tk4po
    @JustMe-tk4po 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Great review and commentary. Well done!

  • @Sharpe1502
    @Sharpe1502 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    The movie lost me when he was watching his wife get a free ride across the River Styx. Like seriously Ridley Scott! Do you know how easy it would’ve been to add Lucius being devastated about how he didn’t get to give his wife a proper burial? That he wouldn’t get to see her in the afterlife? That her soul would be left to wander the banks for all eternity? It would’ve added to the tragedy!

  • @swymaj02
    @swymaj02 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    13:56 Macrinus's true story was a lot different to Denzel's portrayal.

  • @johnnyoldenjr.
    @johnnyoldenjr. 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    His momma call him Lucious imma call him lucious

  • @Richard71834
    @Richard71834 8 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Lucius wasn’t mad because his mom sent him away to “protect him” he was mad bc A: she didn’t go with him and B: she never sent anyone to look for him and at least make sure he was alive let alone safe but I wouldn’t expect you to criticize one of your fellow sisters😂

  • @DeannaR-c5o
    @DeannaR-c5o ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    "Hanno"'s motivation feels like a (bad) combination of Maximus & Spartacus (Starz).

  • @rickyfactz
    @rickyfactz 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    One thing that got me confused and idk if was touched upon. Did Maximas and the mom have an affair before the 1st movie or were they dating before they met their respective partners? Felt like that was a little plot hole in this movie as well.

  • @Zack-f6p
    @Zack-f6p 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Christ saves 🇻🇦✝️

    • @Zeupater
      @Zeupater 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      An all powerful God wouldn’t have to save its own creation.

    • @Zack-f6p
      @Zack-f6p 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ that’s a misunderstanding of why he wanted to it. He wanted to show his love for us, even when we don’t care for him.

    • @Zeupater
      @Zeupater วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Zack-f6p I think I understand okay. I wouldn’t try to speak for another person. Certainly not someone who’s supposedly all-knowing.

    • @Zeupater
      @Zeupater วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Zack-f6p I think I understand okay. But I wouldn’t try to speak for someone else. Certainly not someone supposedly all-knowing.

    • @Zack-f6p
      @Zack-f6p วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Zeupater huh?

  • @deankruse2891
    @deankruse2891 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    It was a fun film. It was never going to match the first

  • @ketasar2278
    @ketasar2278 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I loved gladiator. At first loved gladiator II gave it 5/5. Then I saw this video. Me, a history rat in school, showed the history nonsense in this movie, made me disgusted by this movie. It was so so so wrong that I cannot fathom how I loved it at first.

  • @WorkinWithWood
    @WorkinWithWood 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I thought the movie was fantastic! It had big shoes to fill but it did great!

  • @minatobowerman4625
    @minatobowerman4625 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    That ahh MF DOOM Mask

  • @migueldiaz7939
    @migueldiaz7939 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Is that a scab on her forehead a cross of hair like on a chin. just asking I'm I'm not passing judgment😂

  • @Jaycelestra
    @Jaycelestra 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    it's absolutely a very good film....

  • @mranapra6439
    @mranapra6439 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Africa existed tho dude what do you think Scipio’s title was Africanus?

  • @devanman7920
    @devanman7920 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    It just such a mid film. Not bad but nowhere near being good

  • @danielyoung5342
    @danielyoung5342 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    There is nothing wrong with the term Africa, there was a part of north Africa region named Africa during Roman rule, the province of Africa

  • @kamoheloiannk617
    @kamoheloiannk617 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Lol Rome was always the bad guys... Luscious is no hero he's just an angry boy who happens to someone important 💀
    The dream of Rome was always bullshit. The sequel makes perfect sense ... It's the continuation of the Roman empire's story...
    Maximus was a good man who had y'all convinced Rome was right

    • @FrancT-
      @FrancT- 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      What are u on? How can you define an entire empire, throughout thousands of years of complex history as good or bad?

    • @kamoheloiannk617
      @kamoheloiannk617 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ lol wot?😂😂 no, I’m not … im compartmentalising like a normal person who watches movies that aren’t documentaries.
      I’m not talking to the real Rome.. I’m talking to the Rome of the movies. Which is also very LOOSELY based on the actual Roman Empire.

    • @alexman378
      @alexman378 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      It really doesn’t make sense either way. Commodus dies, his sister is alive, the Senate was in on it, Lucius is next in line, but he had to be sent away for his safety? Why? If anything, he was safer then, than before.
      Then, the twins take over. How? They don’t intimidate, they don’t charm, they don’t command authority, they don’t have any blood claim, they don’t seem intelligent, they’re not physically imposing, nor have any influence. The people dislike them, the Senate schemes against them, the military is loyal to Acacius who also doesn’t like them.
      But somehow, they managed to overpower Lucilla and the Senate, as well as the people. Lucilla, daughter of Marcus Aurelius, also marries the most popular man in Rome, who commands entire legions, and the people love him so much, they want him to be spared when he’s branded a traitor (a social death sentence)… But she’s somehow still overpowered by those two…
      And it all makes complete sense. Yeah, OK.

    • @kamoheloiannk617
      @kamoheloiannk617 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ so you’re complaining that you didn’t see how these specific 25 years played out?
      Cause i mean we can come up w/ a tone of theories as to why luscious wasn’t safe while Lucilla could still be pawned off as a bride to anyone .
      What if they were benefactors of someone else scheming? In house of the Dragon Aegon is named king while Rhaenyra should have been because of the scheming of his grandfather.. i think most of y’all just wanted a different movie and aren’t really willing to engage with this one..
      Another theory is they could’ve just played to the blood lust of the people, couple that w/ the fear of the servants to expose any assassination or overthrowing kind of idea .
      Joe Quinn’s twin has a quiet menace if you pay attention the way looked at Hano after that poem .. we could be also seeing them in the peak of their excess and recklessness while Acacias goes out as the new “ maximus “ conquering lands under their names… furthering their lore as Roman leaders.

    • @kamoheloiannk617
      @kamoheloiannk617 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ also something i think you’re forgetting is Macrinus.
      He’s the reason they killed him in the coliseum and not that night.. cause Macrinus convinced them even through he knew how much the people like the general and what that would most likely lead to ..
      The IDEA OF ROME DIED WITH MARCUS AND MAXIMUS. is basically the point of the movie..
      Maybe the 3rd one will be how the dream now becomes are reality through Luscious.

  • @LUIZS87
    @LUIZS87 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    It was more accurate than the first if you guys looked up history

    • @onkelgreifenklau
      @onkelgreifenklau 23 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@LUIZS87 Accurate history is not at all a precondition for a good movie. Shakespeare‘s history plays are all but accurate and still great plays. What I expect is a good script and good acting. The script is ridiculous and the actors are probably excellent (P.Mescal certainly is) but are not given the slightest chance to show their art.

  • @ornebatmagoo7128
    @ornebatmagoo7128 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    This brutal review is not only a perfect x-ray of the film; it is also a stunning screenwriting lesson. Thanks for this!