Ep243: Scholar Practitioner - Charles Manson

In this episode I am joined by Charles Manson, author of ‘The Second Karmapa Karma Pakshi’ published by Shambhala, and librarian for the Tibetan Collections at the Bodleian Library (Oxford University) and the British Library.
Charles begins by discussing the remarkable life of Karma Pakshi, the second Karmapa, Tibet’s oldest continuous reincarnation lineage. Charles traces Karma Pakshi’s adventures as a yogic trainee, personal guru to Mongol Khans, figure of political intrigue, and reformer of monasteries.
Charles goes on to tell the story of his own life, from brutal treatment at elite British boarding schools to undergraduate studies at the renowned Columbia University. Charles recounts how arrest and deportation saw his academic prospects dashed. After a period of homelessness, he became a master woodcarver training under craftsmen in England and Germany.
Charles recalls his encounter with Buddhism, his contact with spiritual teachers such as the 16th Karmapa, his reckoning with the untimely death of his son’s mother, and details his experiences undertaking 8 years of closed retreat including challenging group dynamics, the painful complications of energetic yogas, and the mechanisms of spiritual transformation.
Charles also discusses his remarkable time with the terton Karma Rinpoche, receiving sacred chulen instructions and witnessing the mahasiddha miraculously press a footprint into rock; as well as Charles’ own return to academia, with postgraduate studies at Harvard and longstanding work at Oxford University and the British Library.
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01:48 - Karma Pakshi, the 2nd Karmapa
07:57 - Summoned by the Khan
15:26 - Persecution and imprisonment by Kublai Khan
25:58 - The tulku tradition of Tibetan Buddhism
33:18 - Interested in Karma Pakshi and the tulku tradition
35:12 - The difficulties of Karma Pakshi’s memoirs
39:02 - Childhood in Venezuela
43:49 - Brothers in oil
45:28 - Suffering at boarding school
49:34 - Institutional cruelty and formation for empire
52:07 - Coping strategies and intellectual rebellion
54:33 - Attraction to Buddhism
56:18 - Love of reading and research
59:11 - Attraction to religion
01:02:08 - Study at Columbia
01:04:42 - Changes in the UK private school system
01:05:33 - Opportunities at Columbia
01:07:30 - The social and political scene at Columbia
01:08:36 - Joining the Black Panthers
01:09:30 - Psychedelic experimentation
01:12:21 - Arrest and deportation
01:16:34 - Homeless in London
01:20:32 - Resilience and free-wheeling
01:22:30 - Searching accentuated
01:23:18 - Druidry, Zen, and karate
01:24:22 - Career as a woodcarver and training in Germany
01:28:07 - Unplanned pregnancy
01:28:41 - Finding Buddhism
01:31:07 - Seeking Chogyam Trungpa
01:35:06 - Samye Ling
01:36:17 - 16th Karmapa and beginning ngondro
01:37:48 - Regrets about Sherab Palden
01:39:33 - Early days at Samye Ling and meeting Kalu Rinpoche
01:41:04 - First retreats and extensive reading
01:45:12 - The charisma of the 16th Karmapa
01:46:26 - What is charisma?
01:49:40 - How to develop spiritual power
01:51:37 - Lineage transmission
01:53:21 - Time with the 16th Karmapa
01:55:09 - Maggie’s cancer and a sacred pilgrimage
01:59:06 - Struggles around the treatment process
02:01:53 - Charles’ regrets
02:03:54 - Maggie’s death and the aftermath
02:07:44 - Entering into long-term retreat
02:09:26 - Preparation for long-term retreat
02:13:20 - Were the 3-year retreats successful?
02:23:29 - Group dynamics and structural challenges
02:26:26 - Charles’ experience on extended retreat
02:26:57 - Spiritual obstacles
02:30:47 - Should 3-year retreatants call themselves ‘Lama’?
02:37:24 - Advice for those coming out of retreat
02:39:23 - Reintegrating into society
02:40:46 - Terton Karma Rinpoche
02:42:58 - What is chulen?
02:44:06 - Karma Rinpoche’s siddhi
02:50:50 - Journeys to Tibet
02:52:34 - Mountain yogis in Tibet
02:56:40 - Chulen retreat in Nepal and Scotland
03:00:34 - Harvard and return to academia
03:06:46 - British Library and the Bodleian
03:07:38 - PhD work at Oxford and Paris
03:08:33 - Writing a book about Karma Pakshi, the 2nd Karmapa
03:09:05 - 1000 year old Tibetan documents at the British Library
03:11:16 - The Bodleian collection and the John Stapleton Driver project
03:14:27 - Why physical libraries are important in the digital age
03:16:19 - Charles’ teaching activities and other work
03:21:10 - Objections and religious arguments
03:22:51 - Contacting Charles
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To find our more about Charles Manson, visit:
- www.shambhala.com/authors/the...
- / charles-manson-07420911
- [e-mail]
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For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- www.guruviking.com
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Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James

[@lydiaparwa2758]

I was fortunate to meet recently Charles Manson when he presented in Lekdanling in London his book (which I'm looking forward to read), especially poems with fascinating introduction about Karma Pakshi, which I didn't know that much about before. Thanks Steve that you always can tune in with your speakers skilfully, and in this interview is the same. Captivating way of describing his adventurous and mystical life of main character , it was good to hear about Charles's biography and how it evolved in early years. Feeling real inspiration and sympathy for his work along buddhist path and how it evolved.

[@PirateRadioPodcasts]

Wow! Thought he'd DIED, in prison, several years ago.
Reformed his criminal ways, huh? Good stuff!

[@littledarkone1995]

Please tell me there are sufficient amount of Charles Manson jokes in this episode.

[@alankuntz6494]

[@acupunctureyoga]

I really enjoyed this one. Thanks Steve.

[@charlesmanson9594]

Thanks, Steve.

[@GuruViking]

Thank you for a wonderful interview! 🙏

[@joshuakinney256]

Quite touching to hear such personal details, but then no follow up about the relationship between Charles and Alastair post-retreat, unless I skipped mention of it. Did it work out like when Siddhartha returned from the forest as a Buddha and his son Rahula became a disciple?

[@charlesrae3793]

Incidentally, the Indian teacher he mentions was then known as Maharaji.