I think if you're in a hurry 8 minutes is definitely worth taking the faster charger. The EV6 and IONIQ 5 also take about 7 more minutes to charge on a 150 vs a 350 (Although that 7 minutes is a lot more pronounced: They do 18 minutes on a 350 and 25 minutes on a 150) So 18 vs 25 feels like a bigger difference than 42 vs 50. So if you're in a hurry and taking the 350 saves you 8 minutes and costs an EV6 driver 7 minutes I think that's a fair trade off. On the parts discussion: I think your assessment is right on. EA has publicly stated many times that parts availability is their primary challenge with keeping the units maintained so it makes sense that the technician would spend more time working on units that actually have parts available.
You could also look at it in relative terms though. That 7 minutes is 19% longer on the Rivian vs 39% longer on the Ioniq 5/EV6. The EV6 might also be in a hurry, and given its smaller pack and increased efficiency it might not even need to go all the way to 80%, so a blast of like 8 or 10 minutes on the EV6 might be all they really need to get to the next station or to their destination. So just that extra 8 minutes the truck is taking could be the entire charge they need/want. I would say the absolute best practice with DCFC would be to stay with your car while charging as much as possible. Treat it like a gas station, not a parking spot. Pee, grab a snack, and back to your car. If you see someone else pull up with a car capable of charging faster than you can, have a simple conversation about your needs vs theirs and be prepared to switch chargers if that makes the most sense. That goes double if you actually need a full 100% for whatever reason. After 80% when charging drops off, it’s just kind of a dick move to stay on a 350kw at that point if there is anyone else charging. Hopefully in the not too distant future, every charger will be hyper fast and it won’t be an issue anymore.
thanks for doing both tests. I guess I will try to charge up to 62% (that was when you’re 350 station dropped to 130kw )on the 350kw station then switch over since at that point there isn’t a benefit from the faster station. I will be interesting to see how software updates continue to change the curve.
I would said that it all depends on what kind of EV car you have have and how fast is that configuration so it can take advantage of a 350, Iconic 5 is a good example of that.
Great information. Good to know this since I have a trip from VA to FL coming up in my R1T soon. Trying to plan out all my stops. There are lots of choices but now I know I do not have to have 350KW charger for a reasonable stop time, either will do. I doubt I will ever let it go down to 10%
Our company just got a Chargepoint Charger installed. But the display says 6.4kw. Can you explain what that means in terms of how much DC charge speed that is? Can’t seem to find a simple answer to conversion. Trying to understand if that is a fast or slow charger. Thanks!
It means that it will optimally charge at 6.4kw per hour, so if you had a 100kw battery it would take a little over 15 and a half hours to charge from 0 to 100%
@@Tach41 yes it’s kind of slow and what would be considered level 2 charging although a kind of slow level 2. They have a 240v hook up but it is AC powered vs a DC fast charger. Level 1 which is just a regular 120v outlet will charge at about a third that rate. With that said when you are at work plugged in to a 6.4 Kw charger you will fill up about half of a 100kwh battery or in the case of a Rivian add about 100miles of range which is probably more than your daily commute, so if it is free at work that’s a great benefit.
The lightning can charge to 80% then its charge rate drops off. It looks like the Rivian might be closer to the 70% SOC when it drops off. That's all software programmed. So might be best to just move on after 70%. Then make more frequent charging stops, but shorter.
@@AllElectricFamily The A/C running on full blast on a hot day pulls around 1,500 watts max. So let's just say 2kW to make the math easy. So if the charger is pushing 120kW you'd have 118kW going into your battery. It's such a small amount of power that the difference is almost difficult to measure. So you're talking about a 1-1.5% increase in time which would result in around 60 extra seconds of charging time.
When you charged it on the 350Kw did you get peak charging of >200KW? 8min difference isnt much. I'd say if you have an R1T and an Ioniq 5 comes in. Move to a 150KW. It won't make much difference.
8 minute extra time is nothing compared to extending the life of your battery. I've always heard a slower charge is better on lithium batteries. Just like the fast chargers you can get for your phones, get your phone charged faster but decreases the battery life faster too.
Really you have to understand that the charging curve for the Rivian and most vehicles is to charge to 70% and move the H on to the next charger. And then do the same for the next and so on and so on. If you have that mindset for a long trip it makes the most sense to go up to 70% and move on. 80% makes no sense for a comparison between the 150 or 350 for that last 10% because the efficiency drops off a cliff and is so inefficient. It skews any worthwhile comparison. If you compare the 10% to 70% most are very close between the 150 and 350 so the conclusion is 1. Don't charge to 80%, do 70% and 2. the difference between 150 and 350 is almost negligible when you do 10% to 70%. 3. don't wait or fret that the 350's are either full or not working as the 150's for the 10-70% are almost equal and you will not have that heating issue situation where the truck will slow down transmission. Better long term for the truck and you can keep the AC or heater on longer and have that more effective. I am sick and tired of this 10-80% mindset unless we get more vehicles with charge curves that can stay very high after the 70% level. The extra 10% for the time wasted makes no sense. Understand that and let's bring the narrative to that. I understand you tow a lot and that extra 10% might help with extra miles to get to the next DCFC, but it is so inefficient to charge that extra 10% for so much less bang for the buck in miles and cost and time with almost any vehicle on the road today. I thank you for the consideration.
THAT MAKE SENSE SO: 1. WE'RE STILL IN THE JUNK ERA OF EV TECH 2. WITH CURRENT TECH, WE THEN NEED MORE CHARGING STATIONS TO TRAVEL REASONABLY OR SIMPLY LEAVE THE EV AT HOME IF TIME IS AN ISSUE 3. WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS ONE MEGAWATT BATTERIES THAT CAN BE CHARGED AT HOME SO NONE OF THIS IS AN ISSUE. INSTEAD OF CHARGING EVERY 100 MILES WE COULD CHARGE OVER NIGHT, WHEN ALL OF THIS WOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE, WHICH COULD LAST FOR 2,000 MILES. EVENTUALLY WE COULD GET IT UP TO MAYBE 10 MEGAWATTS IN WHICH CASE A RECHARGE COULD BE SERIVCED LIKE AN OIL CHANGE, WHERE IT TAKES ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS AN OIL CHANGE, WHICH NOBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT, DURING THE RECHARGE AN INSPECTION COULD TAKE PLACE
I think if you're in a hurry 8 minutes is definitely worth taking the faster charger. The EV6 and IONIQ 5 also take about 7 more minutes to charge on a 150 vs a 350 (Although that 7 minutes is a lot more pronounced: They do 18 minutes on a 350 and 25 minutes on a 150) So 18 vs 25 feels like a bigger difference than 42 vs 50.
So if you're in a hurry and taking the 350 saves you 8 minutes and costs an EV6 driver 7 minutes I think that's a fair trade off.
On the parts discussion: I think your assessment is right on. EA has publicly stated many times that parts availability is their primary challenge with keeping the units maintained so it makes sense that the technician would spend more time working on units that actually have parts available.
That's a good way of putting it, thanks.
You could also look at it in relative terms though. That 7 minutes is 19% longer on the Rivian vs 39% longer on the Ioniq 5/EV6. The EV6 might also be in a hurry, and given its smaller pack and increased efficiency it might not even need to go all the way to 80%, so a blast of like 8 or 10 minutes on the EV6 might be all they really need to get to the next station or to their destination. So just that extra 8 minutes the truck is taking could be the entire charge they need/want. I would say the absolute best practice with DCFC would be to stay with your car while charging as much as possible. Treat it like a gas station, not a parking spot. Pee, grab a snack, and back to your car. If you see someone else pull up with a car capable of charging faster than you can, have a simple conversation about your needs vs theirs and be prepared to switch chargers if that makes the most sense. That goes double if you actually need a full 100% for whatever reason. After 80% when charging drops off, it’s just kind of a dick move to stay on a 350kw at that point if there is anyone else charging. Hopefully in the not too distant future, every charger will be hyper fast and it won’t be an issue anymore.
thanks for doing both tests. I guess I will try to charge up to 62% (that was when you’re 350 station dropped to 130kw )on the 350kw station then switch over since at that point there isn’t a benefit from the faster station. I will be interesting to see how software updates continue to change the curve.
I would said that it all depends on what kind of EV car you have have and how fast is that configuration so it can take advantage of a 350, Iconic 5 is a good example of that.
It definitely is the EV. We have also done this same test with our Ford Lightning.
Good info. This is how I road trip, although there have been a few times I’ve pulled in with zero.
Good comparison. Thanks for sharing.
Definitely worth using the higher power chargers when available.
Agreed!
What color R1T is this?
El Cap!
@@AllElectricFamily looks dark blue in the thumbnail 😮
Great information. Good to know this since I have a trip from VA to FL coming up in my R1T soon. Trying to plan out all my stops. There are lots of choices but now I know I do not have to have 350KW charger for a reasonable stop time, either will do. I doubt I will ever let it go down to 10%
Our company just got a Chargepoint Charger installed. But the display says 6.4kw. Can you explain what that means in terms of how much DC charge speed that is? Can’t seem to find a simple answer to conversion. Trying to understand if that is a fast or slow charger. Thanks!
don't really need fast charging if your car is sitting at work for 8 hours.
@@christylbk true story. But I’m more just curious about the conversion rate just to know
It means that it will optimally charge at 6.4kw per hour, so if you had a 100kw battery it would take a little over 15 and a half hours to charge from 0 to 100%
@@Andrew-dq6bo seems pretty slow for a full proper plug-in that isn’t a wall socket style then, no?
@@Tach41 yes it’s kind of slow and what would be considered level 2 charging although a kind of slow level 2. They have a 240v hook up but it is AC powered vs a DC fast charger. Level 1 which is just a regular 120v outlet will charge at about a third that rate. With that said when you are at work plugged in to a 6.4 Kw charger you will fill up about half of a 100kwh battery or in the case of a Rivian add about 100miles of range which is probably more than your daily commute, so if it is free at work that’s a great benefit.
The lightning can charge to 80% then its charge rate drops off. It looks like the Rivian might be closer to the 70% SOC when it drops off. That's all software programmed. So might be best to just move on after 70%. Then make more frequent charging stops, but shorter.
Slow charging is always better if you have the time! Saving 10 minutes is no big deal unless the boss is waiting on you!
Favorite word "So..."
My second favorite word is anyways😂
What an absolute nightmare. Wasting your lives, sitting around for an hour for batteries to charge.
If it was a hot day and you had to run the A/C full blast during the charging, about what percentage would that add to your charging time ?
Good question, I don’t think it be much more this a minute or two but not sure how to figure that out.
@@AllElectricFamily The A/C running on full blast on a hot day pulls around 1,500 watts max. So let's just say 2kW to make the math easy. So if the charger is pushing 120kW you'd have 118kW going into your battery. It's such a small amount of power that the difference is almost difficult to measure. So you're talking about a 1-1.5% increase in time which would result in around 60 extra seconds of charging time.
When you charged it on the 350Kw did you get peak charging of >200KW? 8min difference isnt much. I'd say if you have an R1T and an Ioniq 5 comes in. Move to a 150KW. It won't make much difference.
8 minute extra time is nothing compared to extending the life of your battery. I've always heard a slower charge is better on lithium batteries. Just like the fast chargers you can get for your phones, get your phone charged faster but decreases the battery life faster too.
A lower rate of charge will extend the lifetime of the battery SO I think the 8 minutes extra is worth it
Well worth it if you weren’t in a hurry. Thanks for your answer.
Slower charge is definitely better on your battery. Longer battery life.
Really you have to understand that the charging curve for the Rivian and most vehicles is to charge to 70% and move the H on to the next charger. And then do the same for the next and so on and so on. If you have that mindset for a long trip it makes the most sense to go up to 70% and move on. 80% makes no sense for a comparison between the 150 or 350 for that last 10% because the efficiency drops off a cliff and is so inefficient. It skews any worthwhile comparison. If you compare the 10% to 70% most are very close between the 150 and 350 so the conclusion is 1. Don't charge to 80%, do 70% and 2. the difference between 150 and 350 is almost negligible when you do 10% to 70%. 3. don't wait or fret that the 350's are either full or not working as the 150's for the 10-70% are almost equal and you will not have that heating issue situation where the truck will slow down transmission. Better long term for the truck and you can keep the AC or heater on longer and have that more effective. I am sick and tired of this 10-80% mindset unless we get more vehicles with charge curves that can stay very high after the 70% level. The extra 10% for the time wasted makes no sense. Understand that and let's bring the narrative to that. I understand you tow a lot and that extra 10% might help with extra miles to get to the next DCFC, but it is so inefficient to charge that extra 10% for so much less bang for the buck in miles and cost and time with almost any vehicle on the road today. I thank you for the consideration.
THAT MAKE SENSE SO:
1. WE'RE STILL IN THE JUNK ERA OF EV TECH
2. WITH CURRENT TECH, WE THEN NEED MORE CHARGING STATIONS TO TRAVEL REASONABLY OR SIMPLY LEAVE THE EV AT HOME IF TIME IS AN ISSUE
3. WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS ONE MEGAWATT BATTERIES THAT CAN BE CHARGED AT HOME SO NONE OF THIS IS AN ISSUE. INSTEAD OF CHARGING EVERY 100 MILES WE COULD CHARGE OVER NIGHT, WHEN ALL OF THIS WOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE, WHICH COULD LAST FOR 2,000 MILES. EVENTUALLY WE COULD GET IT UP TO MAYBE 10 MEGAWATTS IN WHICH CASE A RECHARGE COULD BE SERIVCED LIKE AN OIL CHANGE, WHERE IT TAKES ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS AN OIL CHANGE, WHICH NOBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT, DURING THE RECHARGE AN INSPECTION COULD TAKE PLACE