Tesla's Battery Supply Problem
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ย. 2024
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[1] www.statista.c...
[2] www.statista.c...
[3] arxiv.org/ftp/...
[4] www.sciencedir...
[5] courses.lumenl...
[6] Page 16 publications.li... and www.researchga...
[7] pubs.usgs.gov/...
[8]Page 51 pubs.usgs.gov/...
[9] www.theguardia...
[10] www.tesla.com/...
[11] www.benchmarkm...
[12] Page 9 www.mckinsey.c...
[13] Page 113 pubs.usgs.gov/...
[14] insg.org/index...
[15] www.mining.com...
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When you are done here, Real Science just uploaded a fascinating video about methods being developed to transform any blood into the universal O type blood.
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Hi
Good job on the vid always love them :)
I just took the first step towards my dream of working as an engineer for the betterment of the world by starting my bachelors and I want you to know that your videos played an important part by motivating me and showing me what my goal is. Thank you!
One criticism - your assertion that lithium-ion batteries are used for the grid because they are best suited - the only thing they are suited for is easy on-demand load-scaling. I doubt we'd need even 3% of our grid storing to batteries if we supplemented it with physics batteries like pumping water into man-made reservoirs, and tapping into them later through hydro-electric. Not to mention, this tactic is much better for dealing with green energy's climate based output scaling which leads to imbalanced output depending on weather and season. If Elon Musk actually intends to go for battery-only instead of other types of energy storage, he's either stupid or intentionally playing for an agenda (or secretly hates environmentalists for being retarded which they are - there's no reason to demand 40 environmental impact surveys for maintaining existing infrastructure).
I think there is a mistake near ~3:50 where you say (electrons) "returns to the cathode" but it returns to the anode.
Love your videos!
Any resource problem: *exist*
Every potential solution: *Under the sea*
Well, roughly 2/3 of surface are under water. Of course there are going to be resources.
*Sebastian the Crab starts singing
Who lives in a pineapple under the sea?
Elon Musk: I've been watching the little mermaid and been getting inspired
Once we can efficiently mine under the sea, territorial claims of the sea will really start getting out of hand...
I'm an electrical engineer that's works in the energy industry and energy storage is one of the most pressing issues in the field at this time. I design high voltage substations. We are constantly looking at new and different methods of finding sufficient way to store energy for the grid.
Isn’t hydrogen on the horizon?
@@ThePrikoki cost issues
@@ThePrikoki
The trouble with Hydrogen, as mentioned many times is that for every 10GWh produced, you only get 3GWh at the "point of use".
Several ways to look at that.
You face to produce 3 times the energy (90GWh) which is not only expensive to build, but at the moment *will not* be 100% "green", therefore it defeats the object, you might as well just use the fossil power directly.
Cost to the end user. If that power needs generating, the utilities *will* pass the cost on.
Logistics/ maintenance. Far more infrastructure and transport required.
@@ThePrikoki It's on the horizon the same way fusion is on the horizon.
What about energy vault?
There is nothing better then a Irish person saying "but".
Maybe an Irish person saying "3"?
Yeah only I just want to hear him say the word "butt".. is it the same like here?
@@GenerationAtomic So true💞👏🏽👏🏽
Annie got several mentions too. 🤣
Irish people always pronounce the ‘t’ at the end of a sentence or before a pauze as a ‘sh’
I love how these videos have a higher production value than most legit documentaries
But... Aliens!!!
Some of these animations are amazing
Are you saying this isn't legit?
Please don’t try to make this a fight in the comment section. I love this channel
It’s not tho.
Kurzgesagt: Let me introduce you to ASTROID MINING!
If only Elon had some sort of aerospace company
Ye
But only a few years
@@ryanfranz6715 Or the biggest reusable rocket on the earth.
We need a SpaceX Sea Dragon.
"While another Russian nickel producer spilled 20000 tons of diesel into a river"
Actually it happened just 3 months ago, one of the tanks for power plant supplying energy for Norilsk broke due to the poor (rust) conditions and 20 million (!!!!) liters of diesel poisoned the waters across Norilsk and Arctic Ocean.
I think this news was not a headliner in European and US media, however it shocked Russians...
Yikes, how was this not news here?!
bruh moment
It was headline material at least in some of Europe, I heard about it from the news. Terrible stuff...
h- how did that not make the news here?
hmm
I heard that it was due to the permafrost that it was built on partially melting and so the tank lost it's support.
Battery recycling would be a great topic for one of your next videos.
Battery recycling is the solution to many issues. It's starting to happen. Battery recycling won't hit its stride until there are enough 'used up' batteries to support plants. And Tesla batteries are lasting a long time. The EVs that have reached 200,000 miles still have over 90% of their initial range remaining, for the most part.
@@bobwallace9753 But what if recycling will be so expensive (even after all the innovations) that electric cars will become unprofitable? I am just wondering.
@@HaldirZero - that is the question?
@@HaldirZero recycling is cheaper than mining, and Tesla is already more or less profitable with mining:)
@@HaldirZero One of the founders of Tesla, J.B. Straubel, has started a company called Redwood Materials which is setting itself up to be a major recycler of used lithium batteries. This is only one of the companies that intend to carry out battery recycling.
Elon Musk has stated that recycling will be the least expensive way to obtain materials to use in manufacturing new batteries. A used battery is basically a hunk of highly refined battery materials. Grind it up and separate out the different materials for reuse.
Redwood Materials has started work with Panasonic at Tesla's Nevada gigafactory. They are recycling cells from the plant that aren't usable in EVs due to some manufacturing problem.
When you were talking about alternatives for grid level battery storage, I had to think immediately about Donald Sadoway and his liquid metal battery. I'm looking forward about your video featuring this technology!!!
i often wonder why his (Don Sadoway's) company Ambri isn't selling the hell out of their grid level batteries.
@@Mike-cn3qc Looks like they're still scaling up
rather than that, look up for liquid air battery - its much more promissing than Sadoway's liquid metal battery, plus its already under construction in Europe and also in US
@@Mike-cn3qc Es Elon often said, scaling and creating the production line is the bigger challenge, not developing a working prototype or producing for a small amount of premium customers.
The only thing Don Sadoway sells is Don Sadoway. We’ll see Nuclear Fusion before he makes a difference.
10:20 That's not what reserves means. It has a very specific meaning in the mining industry, but it's essentially confirmed but unmined material.
Yeah, but it also means that if demand were to spike, companies already have claims they can exercise and start tapping into those reserves very, very quickly.
@@oasntet NO. Mining 'Reserves' = Years into the future -- and only after more Big Bucks on equipment.
The content is amazing but holy smoke the editing is next level too. The battery diagrams and that transition around 4:16, I had to stop and watch a couple of time. Just beautiful!!
@pjd412 Hey PJ, sorry, I didn't mean my comment to imply the content wasn't great. That is why I love and subscribed to this channel, just that the time to make it look so good is also amazing as well. Having editing on the level of this and creating it from scratch with the custom animations is just a ton of work. Sorry if it came off like that, the substance is absolutely key here. Thanks for clarifying that! 👍
🙏
@pjd412 Gotta love the way so many TH-cam commenters have superiority complexes against people complimenting the creator for small, subtle efforts.
@@Jdog1681
I non sarcastically love the way you beat me to calling out their garbage self superior attitude.
@pjd412 To be fair, James did say the content was amazing. I think that counts.
The Cobalt Problem makes me remeber the pcg grey videos of rules for rules:
"If the wealth of a nation is dug out from the ground, it is a terrible place to live.....because it can be run on diying slaves and still produce great treasure"
Alessandro Rodriguez agree they basically “to wealthy to be wealthy”
Isn’t the problem not mining, but the management of the mine?
@@thescarlethunter2160 My English fails me to get a good grasp of what you where trying to say
@@toddsmith4280 The point is how much are exploiting people doing the mining and DRC has zero interest in improve the well being of his citizens, because the objetives of the ruler aren't align with the objetives of the citizens, has both videos point out. Said that, technically you are right the cobalt work the same way being produced ethically or over the blood and tears of another human being and only our silly ethical considerations with management are in the way.
good ol PCG Ryeg
This was a great overview of why it's so hard to compete against the incredible energy density of a fossil fuel.
Yes you can. Most of the fossil fuel energy is wasted heat.
@@nordic5490 You just confirmed his point, the "wasted heat" is still energy that can maybe be harnessed with higher efficiencies.
@@ammaR00H and haven't in the many years they have been around
@@troyherrmann235 because to cost to make higher efficiency engines isn't worth it.
You're a dying breed.
Company: “How many bottlenecks are there in the production world?”
Elon Musk: *Yes*
ppl reuse this joke format so much that it doesn't even make sense anymore
Correction:
Elon Musk: I forget. How many democratic governments are there in the world?
@Smoke Tree Tesla's new format 4680 battery cell has no cobalt. They increased the nickel content to compensate. They have a pilot production plant now. A full production 4680 battery cell plant will be built in 1 to 2 years.
@@nathanlevesque7812 doesnt make sense? I mean making sense must be judged on a case by case basis not just a generalized overview of said "meme format". Ill give ya the fact almost none of them are funny but lots of, even the not funny ones, still "make sense".
TH-cam comment section: so Skizzik how many potatoes would you like in your chicken ring fishtank?
Skizzik: purple
@@skizzik121 The joke is answering an either or question with "yes", meaning both. Which is an unexpected answer. There is no excuse for mucking it up.
Once again, I love this channel-bravo! Comment: It seems you have new effects for making tables, graphs and documents interesting to look at, and although I wish the axis labels were more readable, overall, I think you've used them effectively.
Thanks for the feedback on that!
Some things to point out:
* There are three chemistries Tesla called out as being used concurrently in their new battery production based on the 4680 'tabless' design: LFP (iron/phosphorus), Nickel Manganese, and High Nickel. All three chemistries eliminate Cobalt entirely going forward.
* They specifically called out LFP for grid-level storage in their Battery Day presentation, which not only has no Cobalt, but has no Nickel either. While there are still issues with LION batteries as grid storage, and liquid metal batteries are a promising theory, a drain on Nickel resources is not going to be among them, at least for Tesla.
* You quoted the number of factories they would need with the older production lines, but you completely ignored their new production chains that reduce footprint tenfold, and that a single plant making the new batteries of a similar size to the Gigavolt plant in Nevada (and the ones currently being built in Texas and Berlin), would produce closer to a full TW of battery production, meaning less than a dozen of these would be needed. That's the sort of scaling efficiencies they are attaining in their pilot plant.
Tesla, and Elon Musk in particular, makes LOTS of claims. I'll believe them when I see them come true.
@@MrTaxiRob These aren't 'claims', these are numbers from their pilot plant already in production, and having been in production for months now.
@@ShneekeyTheLost you're talking about factories that they haven't built yet, therefore they are CLAIMS.
@@MrTaxiRob Okay, sure. Because the factories being built right now are somehow going to be *less* efficient than the pilot plant they've already got running. Suuuuure.
Fun fact, that 10GW 'pilot' plant? Twelfth largest battery production facility on the planet, just to put it in perspective. So they're already producing these new batteries on the same scale that everyone else is, from a vastly smaller footprint. They just consider it a tiny fraction of where they intend to be.
Additionally, the tabless cell isn't new, it's just the first time Tesla is using it. Not fair to the original designers at Maxwell and other supercap firms to pretend it's someone else's innovation and spread misinformation.
The real issue seems to be overlooked for the most part, acquiring these rare earth raw materials and then they are also very difficult to refine. Actually we need to come up with a battery that uses base materials that are readily available, not difficult to refine, and have no side issues such as dimensional stability while charging and discharging.
Wanted to go into refinement and manufacturing more, but the video was already insanely long. May revisit this later
Are these elements more available in space?
There are no rare earth metals in batteries. Where did you get this impression?
Don't forget modern batteries are also pretty hard to recycle once their lifetime usage is over, which means that we are slowly moving form one problem to another as more and more current batteries are being used. Regardless of what Tesla likes to pretend it's doing, the real engineering of battery technology has a long way to go and a short time to accomplish it.
@@charliecrome207 yes, because space is much bigger than earth... but we are still a long way from starting mining operations in space
One thing I think we fail to realize is the hard labor mining that goes into making us drive our electric cars, use electronic devices, and it's true for actually any industry, in terms of harsh labor
A sad truth
@IamtheFleecer nhhh, it's true for almost every commodity, from gold/diamond to textile/farming
And without mining, no electricity at all, we return to the dark ages, i ask people how far they are prepared to go to 'save' the earth, using facts to inform them of all the things they will no longer have access too, such travel, communication and education. It's amazing how many people do not actually realise what goes into making technology.
Most of these minerals do not require hard labor. If you’re thinking of cobalt, it is used for oil refining as well. The difference being that Tesla, GM, and others don’t buy their cobalt from Africa, but oil companies don’t care where it comes from.
The worst thing you could do, is to take those poor miners only source of income. If not working in the mines was was better than working in the mines, then they wouldn't work in the mines.
@@juliahello6673 You don't have any idea what you're talking about. Every oil company has an AML. Oil companies don't buy minerals anyway. They buy the finished product. You're doing the equivalent of blaming the Tesla car dealership for where Tesla get's its raw materials.
"Untapped lithium in cell phone batteries"
Oh yes, let me just quickly take the back cover off my used cell phones so I can recycle them properly- oh wait, I can't. Thanks Apple!
Read it as unfapped
Just hit it on the side with a hammer, it'll pop right open. Destructive disassembly.
Apple: 'Users shall not replace batteries'
Every manufacturer ever: 'yes master..'
Fairphone. I agree it's crazy that being able to replace the battery became a commercial argument... At least, Fairphone may be almost as overpriced as iphones, but it's with the goal to improve reusability & working conditions in the supply chain, not to increase revenue of a bubling company. They just launched an improved version of their last model (better audio & cam), but instead of buying the whole phone I can just buy the new camera and replace it on my phone if I want.
I don't want to play the devil's advocate, but… why not use Apple's recycling program? Presumably you want to throw away your old phone anyways, so just send it in and they take it apart for you.
OK, If Tesla has a battery issue how in the heck are other OEM's going to get involved?
Presumably other OEMs are not going to get involved by starting with "solve all the world's energy problems on day 1." Any new competitor will need to do better than Tesla in some fashion, whether that's a new battery tech or new production methods or whatever they come up with. Certainly someone who is just starting to day and being a 100% clone of Tesla without doing anything different would face some significant uphill battles, but that's no different from a new competitor trying to enter any other market without something to make them stand out.
As for competition more generally, most of the major automotive manufacturers have had a pure EV line to compete with Tesla for several years now, and hybrids are so common that companies barely even bother advertising that as a feature anymore. Similarly, competition in the battery sector is not trivial. Tesla tends to get all the credit in part because of Elon's high profile and their penchant for doing big, flashy things like the Australian grid installation, but in terms of researching new chemistries (which is the really important thing for the future,) there are quite a few people in both the private and public sectors pursuing multiple ideas to improve (or even replace) Li-Ion. Its not like Duracell and Energizer are going to sit their watching their markets dry up as Li-Ion becomes a more and more suitable (and rechargeable) replacement for traditional alkalines. And its not unfamiliar territory to either of those companies who have already had to fight a similar battle 30-40 years ago when NiCd (and later NiMH) started appearing in AA form factors.
I think issues like the DRC's control over cobalt is far more problematic for the industry as a whole than Tesla's particular vision of the future. And their vision is likely 20+ years away from being realized even if everything goes perfectly for them -- plenty of time for competitors to join the market, for Tesla to change their vision, for nuclear fusion to be invented (its only 20 years away after all!), etc. This isn't something that'll be done and dusted by tomorrow.
@@altrag I was very interested about your analyse until you said 20 years for fusion.
We are farrrrrr more away of having fusion energy.
@@ARCopros Yes its a joke. There's a common saying that "nuclear fusion has been 20 years away for half a century," or some such paraphrasing.
Though we might actually be closer than the joke suggests. Certainly no guarantee, but the amount of private investment we've seen in the past decade is an interesting shift. Governments may be happy to pursue pie-in-the-sky ideas (especially if there's a potential military application) but private investors tend to be a little more cautious with their dollars. So the fact that we're seeing such private investment makes me wonder if viable fusion might finally be falling within that 20-year window they keep promising. (Of course, even if we proved one of the technologies tomorrow, it would likely take another 20+ years to scale it up from "viable" to "commercially relevant." City-scale power generation isn't cheap or easy no matter the underlying tech!)
@Strawberry Kiys Yes and no. Mines are absolutely terrible for the local landscape to be sure, but as long as tailings ponds are maintained and aren't allowed to leak their collected toxins into the environment, the overall damage from mines is very localized -- nature typically still remains undisturbed mere meters away from the edge of the mining operation. (Of course maintenance of tailings ponds is somewhat contentious.. mining companies have a bad habit of sucking out all the profit then abandoning the site entirely, leaving it up to the public coffers to continue maintenance for decades to come in addition to any ecological recovery we want to attempt. But that's more a legal problem than an environmental one.)
Air and water pollution are more serious specifically because they can't typically be contained in any meaningful way. Once you've pumped your gas into the air or your chemicals into the stream, everyone (and everything) downwind/stream will be affected and there's nothing they nor even you can do about it after that happens.
So no, nobody is claiming that mining operations are "clean," but if I had to choose between a hundred square miles of Peruvian mountain being dug out for Lithium or burning another hundred billion barrels of oil, the former is going to be the safer solution in the long-term. The area around that mine will quickly be reclaimed by nature once the mining is done. The CO2 buildup in the atmosphere will be around for possibly hundreds of years.
And we don't really have the option of "do neither." We're struggling to convince people to switch to green energy -- a change that would be practically imperceptible in the average person's life. Convincing anyone at all (never mind everyone) to completely shut down our grid and go back to living in the stone age is.. just not really worth considering.
Is beneficial to Tesla that there is no competition
Can you do a video titled "Nikola's Gravity Supply Problem"?
😂😂😂omg you're savage
Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha
It always amazes me to see Australia so consistently in the top 5 or so countries for supply of *every* mineral. I know we do a lot, but it can be easy to forget just how much.
Uh oh...now one very pissed Wendover is going to come over
I am the ALPHA MALE of this comment section and I command RESPECT. Right now I am ordering you to NOT view any of my videos. Instead just look at my thumbnails and be JEALOUS. Bye bye ethan
@@AxxLAfriku ...
@@AxxLAfriku That's cool but who asked?
Why? It's not like this was a video about airplanes...
I don't see any airplanes in this video
I literally watched this for 24 mins without realising it's too long
then it's not too long.
It's so engaging if you are interested in the topic.
True but I watched al the way through.
Because it was factual rather than a lot of waffle like some other channels....
Dam I bet that failed coup in Bolivia didn’t help lol
Although if the CIA and Elon had succeeded it
would help but
Lithium already comes from
Nevada and Australia
Cobalt mining is a big problem. It’s mined by kids but we still pay a huge amount for it. With the amount we pay we should skip all the middle men and pay the Congo people some real wages
Corporations will never do what is right.
Let them do their work and let them decide if they are happy.
It is mined by adults that can't send their children to school because they dont make enough money. Investing in thing like free scholing for children in affected area’s, agriculture scholing for adults to make a living growing enough food, investing in systems like solar energy + battery so people can work at home when it is dark etc, That will help with ending child labour. Stopping making batteries with cobalt is not the solution for child labour.
@@taylorc2542,are you stupid on purpose?
"We need to transition away from fossil fuels, quickly!" ... "The batterie supply chain starts with mining." SOUNDS LEGIT
The amount of carbon producing the electricity released charging them is worse.
Funny and true
@Home 2 Sky There isn't a massive difference in emissions between the 2. The electric vehicle comes out of the plant with a higher amount of emission cost compared to a gasoline vehicle. The gasoline vehicle does pass it over its lifetime but not by a lot.
@@samuelhowie4543 even if that's true today its a totally unfair comparison, it would be like comparing a 2021 corolla to a car from the 1920s. this tech is in its infancy and already is comparable to what its trying to replace? that sounds very promising to me. it needs more time, and its time will come.
@@samuelhowie4543 You are wrong. Plenty of material out there to read that clearly shows you are wrong. And anyway even if you are right then EVs do 0 harm from the engine to the people living in the city. Just alone that would save million of lifes and billion upon billions of dollars in healt care.
Also what ever report you have read, then read it again and see if they even mention the energy use of the drill rigs, the pumps, the tank ships, the gas station, the semi transporting and the raffineries. I bet you they do now.
There are several issues with the battery explanation: 1. anode and Kathode swap when switching from charge to discharge. 2. Lithium is not chosen for its low density but rather high electronegativity/position in the galvanic series.
Could you please do a video on thorium (MSRs) Molten Salt Nuclear Reactors as an update to your nuclear energy video? These are poised to solve many of the current problems with nuclear energy and be economical at that
MSRs have large downsides that are conveniently avoided by those that champion them. Number one is that you have to have onsite reprocessing of the fuel mix to remove fission products. The cost of this is the primary reason that spent fuel rods are not reprocessed in most countries such as the U.S. Extracting and refining uranium ore (which is massively abundant in the U.S.) is cheaper then reprocessing spent fuel.
It's a technology that has potential to be useful to certain places such as India that is poor in uranium but rich in Thorium. But it is not a miracle tech, nor is it magically more environmental friendly.
That said I firmly believe we must explore, improve, and utilize nuclear power if we truly wish to cut down CO2 emissions as it and hydro are the only two reliable 24/7 power sources that don't release CO2.
@@Cragified That's exactly why RE should make a video on it.
Nuclear fusion is better if still a little way of
With enough funding it will solve all our energy needs.
We just have to get everyone on the same page and globally push for fusion...
Electric cars cannot be a replacement for a fundamental restructuring of how people transport themselves to heavily favor mass transit and walkable urban design. They're an important tool, but Tesla wants to make it the single silver bullet for a problem that more cars, even electric ones, will just make worse.
Say what?
Walkable urban design? In new zealand, norway, switzerland`?
If someone is actually that retarded to believe that electric cars can even come close to being as efficient as as good diesel engine I have no hope
Tesla also pushes heavily for grid scale battery storage and solar . they are driving the industry in all 3. All the other companies following suit will help
@@kommissarjupiter7667 ??? dafuk you saying lmao the best internal combustion engine can convert maybe 30-35% of the gasoline's stored chemical energy into kinetic energy (speed), while the least efficient electricity plants get about double that. Electric engines lose a minuscule amount of power converting between AC and DC, so electric engines are going to be much more efficient than gas cars.
@@kommissarjupiter7667 what?
Are you sure you mean "efficient"?
Max theoretical efficiency for any combustion engine is about 50%, existing diesels are 20-30% efficient.
Electric cars today are about 80% efficient, including charging, battery and inverter.
That's already 3-4 times better than a "good diesel".
3:02 the cathode is negatively charged not positively charged. Cations are positively charged
Depends really, an electrolytic cell has a positive anode and negative Cathode, while a galvanic has negative Cathode and positive anode. During charging, the battery becomes electrolytic. During discharge, battery is galvanic.
the cathode is positive in a battery, electrons flow into it and charge flows out.
@N Satheesan what you're thinking of is a primary cell battery. An irreversible reaction providing a voltage and is only a galvanic cell.
The batteries in question are not primary cells.
They are secondary cell batteries. Meaning they are rechargable and exhibit both galvanic and electrolytic behaviour in the discharging and charging process.
You can't just take one side of the story and call it the whole story.
@Srajan Agrawal lol hello there
Real Engineering episode: comes out
Me: "Brilliant"
One thing I would like to add:
The cathode is the minuspole and
the anode the pluspole.
Yes, you are the only person, other than me, who caught this. Congrats on being "woke". Most aren't.
Yes and,
The cathode is the positive electrode and
the anode the negative electrode
The electrode of a battery that releases electrons during discharge is called anode; the electrode that absorbs the electrons is the cathode. The battery anode is always negative and the cathode positive. This appears to violate the convention as the anode is the terminal into which current flows
@@peterwilson9327 erm I spotted it as soon as he said it, but I am only watching this in december 20th
This always tripped me up before. From my understanding when the conventions were made they didn't understand that electrons were negative or something like that (they had no knowledge of sub-atomic particles). Still not quite sure how that came to be but it is what it is.
What a great, well researched video, as always. Thanks for keeping up the great work!
If Tesla wants to sell more cars, stop opposing “the right to repair “ .
I think they want to control the process to prevent a self-driving Tesla car from having an accident because of bad repairs.
It's a non-issue to at least 90% of people.
They already sell every car they make. It is funny you somehow overlooked entire damn video about bottlenecks in production chain.
@@madcio dude can't grasp the scale and depth of supply chain complexity.
@@LibertyDankmeme why do you even care what someone identifies as? I don’t think you should be fined or anything for misgendering though
Seeing this video one can understand why these so called renewable energy is a fallacy. This is the reason Bill and Melinda Gates Institute supports nuclear power. Because the amount of resources you need to provide battery for wind and solar energy to work reliably is ridiculous and it hurts environment a lot.
yeah I'm all for going electric and against fossil fuels, but the current state of renewables really does more harm than good
nuclear is amazing if used responsibly, bit it has lost the trust of the public after events like Chernobyl
Now compare that to the consequence of climate change and air pollution that kills 7 million a year. It's not even close.
@@Itaintme31178 that is a huge guess. Statistics at this scale and about climate is gamble.
@@drac124 Bro that's just not true. Almost every climate scientist calls for a renewable transition. Generating a MW with solar or wind just outputs objectively fewer pollutants. Show me one source that demonstrates otherwise. Check out drawdown 2020 if u want to learn more.
For those of you against nuclear power consider this: conventional power plants kills significantly more people than nuclear power does. The key difference is that in a nuclear disaster a bunch of people can die all at once. Conventional power plants kill thousands of people just by operating normally.
Am I the only one who loves the way he says " but"? hahahahahaha
I love big buts
@@RealEngineering And you cannot lie.
@@RealEngineering who doesn't
beut
Beutzch
I think the best way to get the raw materials for the batteries is "Battery Recycling". But it has to be done safely and environment friendly manner. That's the best solution, will create great job opportunities and also a chance for entrepreneurs to bring some creative solution.
Edit: Waiting for a video about Grid Scale Storage and Liquid Metal Batteries.
Working on a recycling video too. There are a lot of problems to solve. All the different chemistries makes it difficult to have a single process for recycling. Pretty much all the inventory available for recycling right now is from the Nissan Leaf, with nickel cobalt manganese, but soon there will be a huge range of chemistries. The main driver for recycling is recovering cobalt, and with the lowering percentages of cobalt in the batteries it’s becoming less economical to recycle.
But I guess recycling will be still useful for resource less nations like India where there is no deposits of battery raw materials.
This would help is reducing the dependence on importing raw materials from other nations
No idea about the recyclablity of materials inside a battery, your upcoming video will really help 😁
Thank you for the great knowledge.!
Tesla wont have any battery to recycle befire 10 or 20 years. Used car batteries are put in power walls or other larger grid rectification storage fields ...
As usual, fantastic research and insane amount of effort in the video production. Great video, thank you.
yes, this is a top tier channel on youtube for sure
i listen to this 3 times, since it related to one of the paper i'm working on for my renew energy class. I hope i can collect my ideas and present them in such a professional and fun presentation
I would suggest taking a look at mining uranium from sea water. Technically, it makes nuclear energy renewable for the next million years or so.
11:57 me last night getting lit
"isn't that *high* of a concern"
genuine LoL
Lets all charge our cars tonight. Wonder where that electricity is coming from. Must be solar panels, or wind farms....ya,nah
You wouldn’t belive me as someone who works in a related field, how often people tell me you can charge cars at night cleaner because power plants aren’t producing and you’re using waste energy
😅
at least you can use solar and wind power in EV's it will put us in good stead for whenever the world actually produces a decent amount of renewable energy rather than developing and commercializing it in 2050 lol
You are knocking it out of the park with the new animations and motion graphics 👍🏻
"Artisanal Mining"
Bruh
What else would you call it? Artisanal mining is the correct term to describe unaffiliated miners.
@@InnocentEX Non-regulated mining.
@@Doomroar So, you can use both. Who cares if you use the less common one?
@@InfiniteDeckhand The most common one shamelessly hides the myriad of human right violations and environmental problems that come with that kind of mining.
But to be fair it's not like regular industrial mining is any better, it can be argued that is actually worse.
So yeah, you are technically correct, it doesn't matters.
@@InnocentEX being technically correct doesn't mean that you didn't intentionally choose a manipulative term.
Can we take a second to appreciate the amount of effort he has stared to put it to his animation
Take a swig every time he says “bottleneck.”
My liver: I don't like cirrhosis!
"Inspect the neck of a bottle closely every time he says 'bottleneck' "
No need to ask twice.
Missed opportunity. Could've said "neck a bottle every time he says bottleneck."
We'll become Irish!
@@buttersquids Nyet, we'll become something else entirely.
First time I give a “like” to a TH-cam video, great content, great visual aids, great editing, great narrative, well supported conclusion
I really loved that you provided a well explained link between physics, chemistry, economy and politics! It gave me really interesting perspective upon how one ought to look at processes like choosing the right battery for an electric car. Beautiful complexity!
Alternate title: *Elon, you fucked up.*
Much love, your friends at Rev Media!!
The use of batteries to overcome the drawbacks of solar and wind generated electricity is ridiculous, the answer lies harnessing the nuclear process in some way.
Exactly. And natural gas isn't even bad.
Someone calling "use of batteries to overcome the drawbacks of solar and wind generated electricity" ridiculous wants nuclear energy? Good joke. Nuclear energy is absolutely uneconomical.
Nuclear energy has proved expensive, at least in the United States, primarily because of the regulatory overheads imposed by fear-mongering. Development of the techniques that would open the door to cheaper solutions has also,to some extent, been held back from this negativity, here small modular reactors manufactured in a factory would short circuit many of the delays of building onsite. In the longer term there are other inherently safer designs that utilise molten salts, which besides being more efficient and almost impossible to fail catastrophically supplement there value by reducing the production of dangerous left overs, indeed they may be able to reduce the current stockpiles of used fuels. The world needs an international effort to develop these answers, fields full of solar arrays and hugely destructive wind turbines along with batteries are no solution.
What this video tells me is it isn’t much cleaner to go “green” than to drill & burn oil! Mining for these metals on the scale needed is a very dirty and pollution intense process.
Yes.
But people won't accept any kind of diminishing of their standard of living. And since we're living in (and want to continue to live in) liberal capitalist economic systems, there is no feasible way of making them do so. So what are we supposed to do?
Climate change is the most pressing issue, globally speaking. We simply have to tackle it, there's no way around it. And we're almost out of time already. So we kind of have to find ecologically acceptable solutions on the run.
We need to engineer our way through this problem. It's happening.
Electrical engineer here. Building EVs does currently produce a bit more emiddions than producing regular petrol fueled cars. But, they can well be less polluting in the long term. It just depends on how the electricity used to charge the cars is produced. In countried like Indian where a lot of the electricity is produced by burning coal, the EVs aren't really worth buying to cut emissions. In countries like Norway where nearly all of the electricity is produced by hydro power, EVs become overall smaller polluters that petrol fueled cars in just few years.
Don't forget that easily available oil is a finite resource. There will be a day, when cheap oil won't be available anymore. Ok, now it looks like it is 100 years away, but either way, it is much easier to start solving this problem now, than wait until the the last moment.
It depends on what you mean by "green". If the grid electricity comes from nuclear or renewables, than it addresses climate change. Mining is a separate environmental issue.
I hope you do a video about Hydrogen storage solutions in the future (directly relates to grid power storage). It could be a whole series actually. Would be great to make for Nebula. In particular, Hydrates offer a very exciting solution for high density storage and availability of Hydrogen.
this one is worth checking out : th-cam.com/video/7ynupYBLlyA/w-d-xo.html
the only feasibly way to to dramatically reduce global carbon emissions is through a large investment in nuclear power
A breakthrough in geothermal could help, but currently it’s only viable in volcanically active zones.
As if we have a carbon emission problem. Just read the leaked emails about ClimateGate on Wikileaks. Get real!
Yes nuclear power is a great solution!!
@@James-sk4db Iñdonesian: yessss
Renewables are cheaper.
@@JasonSmith709 do you have any clue about Thorium? Do you have any clue about physics?
Thankyou for making the video 25 mins, im sick of ten minute videos by other youtubers on subjects i really enjoy. I like it drawn out so i have alot to watch
AND THIS IS WHY we still need nuclear power as a base and to alleviate some load on the battery production...
@jocaguz18 as long as you ignore nuclear ships...
@jocaguz18 Just saying it sounds like the point of what it said, removing the need for batteries in the grid aliviates the need for battery production
@jocaguz18 No it isn't. If you have a nuclear baseload instead of replacing ALL energy production by solar/wind, you need less solar panels / wind turbines, wich means you reduce the total amount of battery storage needed to accomodate the energy production of these intermittent sources.
So kindly fuck off. You are the kind of guy who doesn't think before speaking, and it shows.
Question: What’s more important, climate change or human rights?
Answer: Profit margins
Capitalism?
Every political system would end the same way: planet wasted. The difference that at least we have the freedom to speak out about it. Ask a Chinese to criticize China industry impact on the environment to see what happen. They just disappear.
@@Ronirvan Lol you are saying that like its not profit margins that dictate chinese policy. China is communist only in name.
@@stuartd9741 Capitalist nations are typically the ones providing solutions. Under socialism, are you going to go without your phone or computer? (or air travel?).
@@channel1_channel
How would I not have a phone or computer
in a socialist country ?
Capitalism in of itself is ok.
It's Rapacious Capitalism - the out of control capitalism - the gov favours where the rules are not equal for everyone.?
I won't pretend a socialist country would be any better.
I'd like to think it would be a more equal society.?
When it comes to grid, or long term energy storage I always thought about Hydrogen. Excess electricity would be used to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen. Store it over time, and then as needed use it as a power supply when the demand is needed.
I am sure that I am missing a lot of key issues in the process, from cost to efficiencies, still this has potential I believe.
The most obvious issue is: it needs to be compressed and this means energy loss.
Also some of the parts needed in hydrogen duel cell are also not cheap, is my guess. But it's not the only option, the Wikipedia page for hydrogen storage is long.
Some hydrogen plants for grid energy storage do exist: Canada, Germany.
From what I know, hydrogen extraction from water is extremely unefficient compared to other storage methods, which is the reason why hydrogen is very often produced from oil.
But with more research, who knows what could be possible in this sector?
@@Theimtheimtheim "which is the reason why hydrogen is very often produced from oil." I believe it's actually natural gas, not oil. But I'm no expert.
@@autohmae yeah, me neither, but you're probably right...
Many people have already thought about that. It's called Hydrogen Batteries. Since Elon Musk families owned mines in Africa since before he was born, he has not only ignored but attacked the technology.
This really is an outstanding video. The content, production, and the flow. Engaging.
We need to make personal transportation much much smaller and lighter. Pushing heavy cars around with batteries is not scalable. Electric city trolleys need to come back in a big way. Direct grid powered transport is the only way to solve these problems.
Small vehicles with capacitor pacs to cover the small gaps between road grid source lines is the way to go. Basically a personal trolley with a small capacitor pack to push the vehicle between power lines.
small vehicles would be able to ride only on smooth city roads, and why would you need personal vehicles in cities at all? Public transport is faster and more reliable in most cities. And direct grid powered transport has not gone anywhere, most big, and not so big, cities use it constantly.
@@minaolenella869 Public transportation would be good, and should be increased, but I feel what will have the biggest impact is self-driving vehicles. We will need significantly less vehicles on the road if they can drive themselves to serve people instead of sitting in a parking lot or garage for 97% of their life. This equates to much fewer raw materials and a host of other benefits. Honestly, I think self-driving cars will be very major in our fight against climate change and I don't see people making this connection enough. Thoughts?
@@dylanlong6269 Would also reduce accident rates if you think about, one problem is that obviously they need to convince the public that it's safe, efficient, and most importantly, cost-effective
@@justyourrandomvideos1645 Definitely, so many benefits. Less accidents leads to less on first responders, possibly reducing emissions/electricity usage by a small amount and allowing them to respond to more emergencies. Might even see a small, but noticable amount of increase in overall work time because less people are being hospitalized too.
@@dylanlong6269 why does self driving = less cars? You mean because people could share them or what?
Please do a video on the SABRE engine by Reaction Engines.
I know the reverse is true in "real" current, but conventionally we say that the Anode is positive, and the Cathode is negative.
Well, in chemistry anode is electrode which facilitates oxidation.
@@Kycilak Yes, oxidation occurs at the Anode, which is the positive electrode. (Conventionally)
@@JesusHChrist2000 Nope, depends on what the cell is doing. As a source of voltage it has swapped polarity to electrolysis cell.
Also the direction current flows by convention has nothing to do with polarity. The + and - stay the same in a given circuit whether you suppose positive or negative charge carriers.
@@Kycilak Ok? But the explanation of batteries in the video incorrectly shows Cathode as positive and Anode as negative is all.
Yes this had me confused too. I would have assumed an error (the cathode is the negative electrode in every context I've ever encountered) but Brian researches stuff thoroughly.. so went back to Google and I believe he's right in the context of lithium ion chemistry.
Another beautifully made video. Thank you for putting out such great content for free
Where it's possible, pumping water uphill is a pretty effective energy storage system.. already in the 1960's Switzerland reversed the turbines and generators at night to pump water uphill at night when grid demand was low, it may not be as efficient as charging a battery (I haven't done the math), but it should achieve at least 60% overall, but it requires far fewer limited resources to do, especially with well chosen locations
Damn I'm a 17yo boy in Iran and even I'm rooting for them.
Is this a Tesla commercial?
Tesla doesnt have a marketing department
This whole channel looks sometimes like a big Tesla commercial.
is he selling you Tesla cars?,.. then the answer is no
This is an engineering channel. Tesla is a company that talks about their engineering to a huge degree. It's no surprise that this channel would cover Tesla.
He's knocked Tesla and especially outlandish claims by Elon in previous videos, so I don't think he's shilling for them. Tesla has made a few important innovations to the electric vehicle market, and the EV industry as a whole has many maturing technologies with interesting engineering and logistical challenges worthy of videos from this channel. I appreciate some of the insights from this video that weren't covered during Tesla's battery day event.
I used to live in a toll road state and honestly the toll roads were awesome just because people went out of their way to avoid them.
Whomp Whomp. Sorry that coup went the wrong way and you have to pay more for them Elon.
Bolivia currently has no lithium mining capacity and, even if their resources were to be developed, they would be on the expensive side of things due to high amounts of impurities in their brines, especially for LiOH, the form needed for high Nickel cathodes.
There are cheaper, and way less risky ways of expanding LiOH supply than staging a coup in Bolivia (lithium carbonate has been oversupplied for years). Because of this Tesla has secured Lithium from South Carolina, and is developing Lithium mining in Nevada.
Tesla simply has no interest in Bolivia.
@@jonashageboke8993 all I'm reading is "hoes mad."
@@WhiteCollarCrimeDNB There's nothing stopping you from believing whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy, or just the right amount of righteous outrage, but the facts simply don't agree with you.
Sassy replies won't change that.
@@jonashageboke8993 keep backing right wing coups in an attempt to exploit a country's natural resources... I think the phrase goes "fuck around and find out."
I still can't believe these never even have ads on the videos 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Indeed your right. How strange?
Im getting at least 5 ads per video now😒
I love seeing stuff like this and I wish I could change my career to get involved with stuff like this.
@Trumps Wall would know where to start
I for one welcome our new lithium-wealthy Australian overlords.
Yet it is one of the most expensive places to buy Lithium batteries .........
Solution ; build the Giga factory's around the world in different locations to reduce the bottle necks
and thus governing the labour to better workers rights ? maybe ?
It would be so cool if you released well-designed physics books. Would read them all in a breeze
The lithium "reserves" shown on the USGS page aren't some stockpile being held back to support the price... it's the estimate of the total (currently know and identified / "proven") lithium available to be mined in those countries.
i've been working on a Tesla project where we are configuring and testing the element Samarium (Sm) employed into the Cathode ... (looks promising)
When I clicked the video I knew there would be no mention to the US backed coups in Chile and Bolivia, but making Elon Musk look like a savior instead of villain is a little too much for me.
Err are you suggesting Elon Musk has with USA backing no controlling Chile and Boliva, if you are maybe you want to fact check that.
One of the best presentation video i have ever came across. Great reach and solid presentation. I need to learn the way you write the script for your presentation
Guess they didn't expect the coup to fail XD
^ Judging by what Musk said previously, he really didnt expect that outcome. Hubris much?
To quote Elon "we'll coup whoever we want"
He must be seething and I am loving for it
are you uploading the same time with Real Science?
As a mining engineer, you've got a bit of an error on reserves and resources. Mineral reserves just mean a mine has that much left to go, it doesn't mean production is being held back. You can only mine at a certain speed and you need to mine from the top downwards. You can't build a mine on a short life, you'd never get the financing
I feel like you missed the point of Tesla’s use of multiple chemistries and in particular not using nickel in grid storage and only using cobalt (in increasingly reduced ratios) in a subset of their products. Not to detract from other grid storage options, your point regarding lithium still holds.
Yeah, they'll likely use the lithium iron phosphate batteries in the megapack which will be much cheaper and last probably 4,000 cycles minimum before being scrapped for recycling.
How Tesla is going to Intervene in another country's Politics?
Ask Bolivia about that.
Their Current election shot him in the foot. Lol
US puppet got voted out, but the Lithium deal will be hard or impossible to reverse
I highly doubt that Tesla had anything to do with the "coup" in Bolivia. And if the US had anything to do with it (they probably did) it sure as hell wasn't for the dismal lithium supply. It's probably your average anti-socialist, anti-democratic, American coup. I know you're making a funny haha joke or whatever but this gives people the wrong idea about what drives the United States to support fascists. At least in Bolivia's case.
@@whitdodge1851 Not according to Musk.
@@whitdodge1851 "we will coup whoever we want! Deal with it." Elon musk about lithium interest when called out on his support of the coup on July 24th 2020.
Great video but at 3:05 you mixed up the cathode and anode. Anode is positive and cathode negative.
I thought reserves were a measure of unmined resources? The sum total of the material that could be accessed.
No
Mineral reserves (or ore reserves) are resources known to be economically feasible for extraction.
It depends on what reserve hes talking about. There are Proven reserves which is the Sum total of accessible materials and reserve capacity which is when a mine operates at lesser capacity then possible. The problem in the video is he uses them interchangeably without mentioning which reserve hes talking about. IE: the Indonesia mines running at less than capacity. and the Cobalt mines in the DRC which are running at near capacity.
@@caliph20 Actually: THE vid host doesn't have a damned clue and bollixed it up. Reserves are those economically able to be mined. Period. Definition used by everyone for the history of the mining community. Strategic reserves are amount of mineral set aside in storage... No one has this other than a very few select countries and they are ONLY there for military purposes and have nothing to do with civilian life. NO mining company EVER states what their mining capacity is. And nickel mining companies the world over are seeing DRASTIC push back from local people for environmental reasons. Phillipines has effectively killed off their Nickel mining operations because of the horrific effects. Australia has large reserves of Nickel, but effectively mines very little of it. So, TESLA, if they actually WANT Nickel, you have 2 friendly nations more than willing to mine it, if one PAYS for the environmental side of things. Same goes for Canada.
@@w8stral Well, yes. But, giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. Within the video he speaks of companies not mining due to supply/demand curves with companies choosing to leave capacity unused within the context of a "reserve" So, sometimes hes talking about this. Other times he is specifically mentioning proven/probable reserves. Like the Cobalt. *12 years value etc* I think he couldve done a better job of differentiating the talking points.
Sadoway is my professor for my chemistry class. He's hilarious!
Wow I never say this about a TH-camr, but you provide excellent explanations based on objective research. Well done and thank you.
I have studied that cathode is negative and anode is positive ???
Depends ....
It threw Me at first also .....
Rechargeable batteries are a little tricky .....
The polarities kind of depend on whether it's charging or discharging .....
Chemically, the anode is negative and the cathode is positive.
Not sure why you learned it the other way around, maybe something to do with how electricity travels form + to - in engineering, but from - to + in physics/chemistry?
Actually cathode mean where the current exits the device and anode, where the current enters. The polarity depends of the device, but for discharging batteries the cathode is positive
@@jonashageboke8993 Phone Company guy here ..... Positive anode , negative cathode ..... In a vacuum tube (Yeah , I'm an old Boomer) the cathode is always NEGATIVE or You have problems ..... I think the disconnect is coming from the fact that it depends on whether the "thing" is acting as a load or as a source for power ......
EDIT :: Rechargeable cells offer a helpful way to see why the cathode in a galvanic cell becomes the anode in an electrolytic cell. Rechargeable cells work in both galvanic and electrolytic modes - galvanic when they are powering devices; electrolytic when they are being recharged.
@@stevenattanasso2003 that makes sense. Thanks!
Asteroide mining is the solution
Yeah Betalowda!
To those complaining that the video has mislabelled the anode and cathode: you are wrong for the most part. In a galvanic cell, the cathode is positive and the anode is negative. In an electrolytic cell, the cathode is negative and the anode is positive. When a battery is delivering power to an external load, it is a galvanic cell, so the diagram at 3:00 is correct. When a battery is being recharged, it is an electrolytic cell, so the diagram at 3:45 is incorrect and should have the anode and cathode reversed. Interestingly though, he does correctly say the word 'cathode' at 3:50.
I took 3.091 from Professor Sadoway about 20 years ago. Amazing teacher. :)
It will be interesting to see if the US coups Bolivia again, to get a sweet deal for their Lithium.
Or it could get lithium from Australia or Nevada for the same price, I have 50/50 odds of it being a coup or sanctions. If the US coups Bolivia it will not be for lithium but rather that the US won’t tolerate communism in their backyard
@@evboto.5597 but the bolivian government is socialist, and usa already coup'ed bolivia
Could be China too
Hopefully Russia and China stop the US
@@revatronprime4120 first off they will not be able to and second be very very careful what you wish for
zinc-bromide flow batteries are already commercially available and are comparable in price to lithium for grid tied applications
13:00 joe scott has a great video on “artisanal mining” of cobalt
Without a doubt, real engineering has the best ad transitions on the Internet
Impressed you presented this with not one ad! Bravo!
Just increase the number of your child workers and reduce their wage
It shall be done.
Literally about to sleep, guest just be 10 more minutes
Looks like it'll be 20m more
*stays awake until 4 am*
How do you watch a 24 minute video in 10 minutes?
@@the3rdid485 2.4x speed.
Ha
For trucks, the eHighway system by Siemens being tested in Germany seems like a great solution to reducing the amount of batteries required
Love the video, you should do a video on carbon capture technology at some point, I find it really interesting and potentially impactful
Bolivia? Bolivia? Bolivia?
Time of change- time to pay
☮️ 🌎if you want it.
>peace on earth
Yeah ill look at the pile of bodies history has created and the charnal house that the 20th century was and some how believe peace is an option
I'm legitimately curious: why focus on energy storage for the grid, when we could invest more in nuclear for baseload instead, lessening the battery requirement for our total grid usage? This has some secondary benefits as well
Irrational safety concerns but people are starting to understand this was a mistake. The other is: upfront costs, time to build and project risks.
And risks of nuclear weapons development.
Nuclear fusion is better. We shouldn't well, not in the distant future, rely on fission but push towards fusion.
Yes still some way of but is our best clean energy hope that we currently know of.
What i learned?
We need asteroid mining soon..
Thats not more profitable
I thought the same thing...
@@Mr2winners it actually is
there is spacex with Starship for that
Actually, hybrid batteries. Including ultra-capacitors. Rather then create a monolithic cell relying on one chemistry for storage. The switch cells to optimize on performance, range and lifecycle.