MONDAY NIGHT RUGBY | Leinster fall to the wayside | Ulster heartbreak | Stormers win at the death
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- Joe Molloy is joined by Grand Slam winner Fiona Hayes & the Irish Times’ Gerry Thornley for this week’s edition of Monday Night Rugby.
@VodafoneIreland #TeamOfUs
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As a South African fan, its weird how quickly we have bought in to it, surprising myself, I use to know very little about the home nation players, now watching them week in and out, you get used to the names and how good they are and what their skill levels are. In the past if any Southern nation would play a northern Nation i would always support the South, but this year for the first time I'm really hoping that Ireland, wales and Scotland do well in their tours. Really hoping for an Ireland win In NZ
really? i still cheer for the south, was rooting for sa vs the lions etc. but you're going to cheer against your fellow southern brothers now? pretty sad day
You just have to love the criticism about the South African style of rugby (a crime against the sport) when you consider that the URC attack stats place the bulls 2nd, Stormers 3rd and the Sharks 5th.
The SA sides have played some great flowing rugby this year but it’s the old fall back for a lot of NH commentators. Look at the stats and watch back,
However
It’s not a pool game, no bonus points, Its all about the result.
The Sprinboks and Rassie did commit a crime against Rugby last summer. Awful Lions tour
Well said
@@gavinmcgrath2303 The Springboks scored the only exciting tries of the whole series though. The Lions came and tried to beat us at our own game and if it wasn't for a ref we should have sent the little kitties home with a 4-0 thrashing.
@@gavinmcgrath2303 Consider this: Boks scored scored 6 tries in the 3 tests and SA A game, all from backline players, most from the back 3. Lions scored 3 tries in those 4 games. Guess how many backline players scored tries for the Lions? (Hint: It was less than 1).
That commentary around SA playing boring rugby is just pish. Look at which players and teams which are dominating the attacking stats. Marcel Coetzee most offloads, Bulls with most offloads of any team - guess who is 2nd? Stormers. Kurt Lee Arendse most line breaks, top 3 line breaks all South African back 3 players with Stormers leading the line breaks overall as a team and 2nd in defenders beaten. Evan Roos leads the stats for defenders beaten and Leolin Zas is top try scorer, Senatla 4th (both wingers from the Stormers). Top 2 individuals with meters gained are both back 3 players from the bulls.
Does this guy call himself a sports journalist? Has he even watched the URC games?
I won’t even comment much about the Lions tour comments but consider this: Boks scored scored 6 tries in the 3 tests and SA A game, all from backline players, most from the back 3. Lions scored 3 tries in those 4 games. Guess how many backline players scored tries for the Lions? (Hint: It was less than 1)
These guys don't know SA rugby. Each team plays a different style. Saying we play boring 10 mam rugby is just lazy and someone who doesn't watch rugby enough.
This. Different regions play their own unique style of rugby. The only constant is big forwards
All of the SA teams have played some great stuff this year, they all have incredible pace out wide and phenomenal attacking players.
Totally! Also seem very arrogant. South African teams needed time to adapt. Hopefully more interest will be shown next year and more respect. Next season the South African teams will be stronger I reckon. Especially the Sharks.
Sean Everitt will need to have a good season with the Sharks. I think anything but a URC / Heineken win will not be good enough with the talent they have. He needs to get a group of very talented individuals playing like a team (a.k.a Bulls)
Taking photos with their heroes, major respect...
The Irish stepped into the same kinda trap that the English did in RWC 2019. Forwards play is paramount for SA teams and Leinster was caught napping. The latter winning with a huge margin the week before and the Bulls result in round 1 maybe lulled them too.
I can see the SA teams getting stronger in the years to come. Big money is flowing into the francises and getting older and better players back from overseas alla Eben Etzebeth. Interesting times ahead.
How long before the European clubs become frustrated with subsidising SA's player retention, and financing South African wins in European competitions?
@@Formakiwi from day 1, but noting the will do about it, because it will improve their game as well.
@@Formakiwi Its a team sport mate and you should think about it like that. Have you heard Kolisi's story? Have you heard Mapimpi's story? That investment from Europe will have a huge impact on peoples lives. When players and teams were kneeling etc for BLM people asked what difference does that make. Including Africa will make a real difference.
What is wrong with playing a more forward oriented game? There is something that is beautiful and can be appreciated about great forward play aswell as a fast paced strike moves style
The best commentary I've heard, just about on any game. I think these results are going to help Irish rugby later this year, and for 2023 for that matter ... we just have to hope the French forget how good they are. Perhaps that's what happened to Leinster?
Agree
I didn’t appreciate the comments about the usual “boring rugby” trope. Any look at the attacking stats completely negates this argument. Bulls were just tactically smarter and played the required game plan that gave them the beat chance to beat a great team that hardly ever loses at home.
@@inBODwetrust13 we will play what ever we want to play.
@@inBODwetrust13 we will play what ever we want to play.
@@inBODwetrust13 did you see the urc stats? Offload...top try scores en en en...
From Leinsters point of view I get the sense that the stuffing was knocked out of them a bit after the La Rochelle game. They really should have that final as the last game of the season. In any case the SA teams were always going to bring the competition up a notch. Its why they were brought in. It was going to take a little bit of time to find their feet but have done it pretty quickly. Top quality teams which is what we want.
In the game itself Leinster fielded a few players that you wouldn’t want to see starting in a game of this magnitude. Sexton should have started. He retires in just over a year so what was the point in benching him? Larmour at FB would have been a better choice too with his recent form. Losing lineout after lineout on the bulls 5m line was a disaster. Should have just secured one at the front but they kept doing the same thing over and over.
Im not sure what talent is coming through at prop but re-enforcements are needed there badly. Frawley should probably start to get some regular game time at 10 as well. I think he could do great there. The bulls came and executed their game plan excellently. All in all a disappointing end to the season but with a few improvements Leinster can go even better next season.
Same stuff, different week. The common thread with all of Leinster and Ireland's recent defeats is simple and brutal: the Irish forwards were physically outmatched. It's unfortunate but true; the best forward-based rugby teams will always terrorise Irish packs, who despite significant advances in conditioning, still lag behind in the sheer grunt stakes.
Take a look at the pack weights - you will be surprised to see how often the Northern teams are heavier than their South African counterparts. Physicality isn't just about size it's an attitude.
Given the rugby system in SA there will come a time where it will be very difficult to compete against SA teams.
It is no secret that school and varsity rugbgy are really helping our teams, but still there are quality players from both varsity and school who are far better than the players who are playing professional rugby. Furthermore, you've got club rugby where you will find the most complete rugby players but no team is taking advantage of that.
SA need to develop quality coaches also. I think that is the most concern for me.
I honestly don't know how we struggle to monetize the game with so much talent. We should be able to have a proper big league of South African teams alone.
I wouldnt say SA have become dominant... semi finals were close. Competitive certainly.
Watch out next yr.again!!! Here we come.Still stronger 💪GO SA rugby.Lovely that there is not much of a time difference for the S.Africa sides👌👍👍
So basically it's either leinster win or they not playing their best. No franchise team can be better ... ok got it
is what I also thought. Don't worry next year they will realise that Leinster will not be playing their best too often. Also bragging about the B team picking 2 losing bonus points, they problem is their A-team isn't much better than the B-team.
I have watched Leinster for years and saying your DNA is running exciting rugby is so funny, go watch the Stormers over the years that is what I call running rugby.
Leinster DNA is playing touch rugby.
Leinster been smashing teams by 50 points for years, this doesn't create a fighting spirit for those tough games and there comes the problem. Now when they behind and being physically dominated they don't know how to turn it around. My opinion.
bit worrying from an Irish point of view in the short-term but long term it's good that we are exposed to this level of physicality. Better it happens now than right before a world cup
Even with that they weren't far off. 3 points loss in one match and 1 point in another.
@@johnmc3862 don't forget the Bulls should have had at least another try but some poor performances from some players that are usually very sharp. Was it a lack of game time or maybe a lack of real competition?
@@johnmc3862 also Bulls have 0 current Springboks.
@@patman142 End of season also maybe.
Bulls targeted doris they knew he would cough off ball and he did ! That was the winning of the game for them
Honoured to have 7 mins of airtime to Ulster. A rarity for OtB.
Leinster supporter ! But for the last 3 years we couldn’t say anything negative about them or we were Munster supporters ! If you couldn’t see faults in your team you are just a hanger on
3 years? Was always the case.
Where are the usual suspects tonight though? Hiding behind their Dublin Football jerseys probably.
that type of match and the one against la rochelle will be great experience to learn from for Ireland come the world cup, may be what they need to get over the quarter final hump.
Leinster are a great side who were neutralised by a superior pack in the bulls. This disrupted their game plan and they weren't able to find a way to win from there. The South African sides will always carry that threat.
The Heineken Cup is the major test. As exciting as this is for South African rugby, there is still a lot of learning to be done. We should not let this get to our heads. The Stormers still have a couple of gears they can hit, the Sharks have been very underwhelming thus far, and the Lions can improve a considerable amount still. The Bulls seem to have a very clear long-term plan and inspire a lot of confidence at this point, and I can only see them getting better. But the point is that the job is nowhere near being done. This needs to be viewed as just the beginning.
Completely agree Siyabonga.
If Jonny Sexton starts for Ireland at the WC we will get nowhere. Well past it
Yep. Has been for a while. However he's still Ireland's best performing 10, so the prospects for Ireland starting anyone else are equally grim. The pressure from fans and pundits for short term success has prevented any form of long term planning around succession, and stymied the development of secondary options at fly-half to the point where Johnny is the only likely option for 2023. This summer's tour to NZ would be the last chance to blood someone else in a top tier test environment ahead of the main event, but the prospect of being whitewashed by the ABs (again) will ensure Johnny travels, and probably starts every match.
@@Formakiwi your both absolute spoofers bo offence “well past it “ 😂
The bulls had 5 Springboks who played , Bismarck , Marcel Coetzee Arno Botha, Morne Steyn , Cornal Hendricks. Maybe not current Springboks .
Steyn and Bismarck are about 40 and nowhere near the team. Let’s drag out okelly and Horgan
@@dgmclar the presenter said the bull had no Springboks playing .
@@deonabrahams6451 previous Springboks from years ago....not current ones. These guys went to Europe, came back home and are playing at an age where most have retired💚💛✌🇿🇦
Jirre so if naas went on to bring water, then we had another one?
While I agree with this all, another way of looking at it, of the 6 games Leinster lost, they were all by one score.
They should really change it from OTB to the Leinster and Some Other Irish provinces show , What happened to the Ulster coverage almost non-existent
6 mins on Ulster, 25 mins on Leinster come on lads. (Correction not even 4 mins)
Fiona is right - Leinster didn't look as engaged. Maybe the starters have been asked to go the well too many times this year in high pressure games for club and country. Here’s my lineup for the first NZ test if everyone is available: 1-Porter, 2-Kelleher, 3-Furlong, 4-Henderson, 5-Ryan, 6-Beirne, 7-van der Flier, 8-Doris, 9-Gibson Park, 10-Sexton, 11-Lowe, 12-Aki, 13-Henshaw, 14-Baloucoune, 15-Keenan / 16-Herring, 17-Warwick, 18-O’Toole, 19-Baird, 20-O’Mahony, 21-Cooney, 22-Burns, 23-Larmour
I'd have the full Ulster front row off the bench - far from a front row expert but the familiarity has to count for something... Thoughts?
Scarlets?
You guys really don't watch south african teams much do you, the bulls are the top offloading team in the urc, the stormers and lions are basically all out attack sides and they have been that way for as long as i can remember. Our super rugby sides back in the day were extremely expansive the difference now is we have gotten some key experienced players in our teams now that were lacking before covid and before our teams got into europe because all our top players would go and play for european teams. Lastly you can talk all you want about the physicality but in reality the leinster backline tried and failed to get away from the bulls and la rochelle quick back threes. Also saying the bulls are a side without springboks is misleading, cornal hendriks, marcell coetzee, arno botha and others have got test caps and players like nortje, arendse, elrigh louw have made the boks most recent squad.
Our teams have always had the ability to attack much like la rochelle but if we get ahead in knockout games we will look to play a territory game in the exact same way that leinster and ireland do in games that they know are going to be close
I love how ignorant you guys are about SA style of rugby, putting your noses up acting like you play some incredible brand of rugby. You will learn very quick that SA rugby is not just a pack of forwards.
A refreshing end to the league. The final will be a better. This can only be good for Irish rugby, a bit of competition was badly needed.
I don’t know why Leinster persisted with going for the sideline instead of taking the three points on offer. They weren’t winning these line outs and should have changed the tactic. Strange.
Easy fix……more Saffers 😉
Has Thornley watched any rugby in the last three years? Or just he just recycle the same talking points and update the dates and scores to make it look like he's working for his money. "Lack of imagination from SA teams" when we have some of the best attacking stats for the tournament - What utter waffle.
Big game temperament ! Leinster blew it again. Forget about big physical team. Errors compounded on errors and lack of respect for opposition.
Biggest issue is we now have to cope with one eyed Boks in the comment section boring us half to death. Come back, Munster heads, all is forgiven! You are Renaissance Men by comparison 😅
and being Irish I doubt you can cope with much, will most likely just roll over and give up.
@@jonathandavis8599 That's precisely the type of rapier wit and scathing repartee to which I refer. Jesus wept.
europeans are such entitled whinners , plays self proclaimed rugby loses: sulks
plays in favour of the ref loses: sulk
chokes multiply in playoff rugby losed: SULKS ABOUT EVERYTHING
plays away games loses: sulks
just learn to be humble learn from defeat and tip the hat for better teams
ehem, dont confuse leinster people with the rest of us. nick mallet is the sorest loser of them all. Irish sport has always punch above our weight considering we have the population of a city we do well. its not arrogance its belief.
I think that's a bit rich after the South African video during the lions tour, its just as important to be a good winner as a good loser
AL WAT JY SIEN IS DIE BLOU MASJIEN
Plenty off youngsters in SA that won't get a lookin because of the need to include equally as good players off colour...maybe the talent scouts can lure these lads who are so eager for a game.
From a South African, this speaks volumes about the mentality of European rugby... looking to poach other players instead of growing the game at grassroots levels. I also hate the quotas though. I love Ireland as a country and a rugby team and so I think the problem you guys have is with the multiple different sporting codes you guys play. GAA etc. Lots of potentially excellent rugby players are playing hurling or GAA.
That's the NORTHERN HEMISPHERE way, poach,poach, poach to compete. Complain about SA style, but always ready to poach.
Buy the way think Doris is a brilliant player he will learn from this setback
Take the South Africans, New Zealanders, Australians and Pacific Islanders out of Europe and you stuck with mediocracy, except France. This proves super rugby was the most challenging competition to win in rugby. No Irish team would survive in New Zealand if the best cant win at home against a Bulls team with no active boks. Coetzee last played 2019, Steyn retired. SA rugby and the franchises should prepare their new crop as I'm sure plenty of players will now be poached.
Stormers fan here. I love Ireland Irish rugby. Those games could have gone either way. The refs never helped. As hard as this may sound, it looks like the Irish teams have not got what is needed to get the job done, probably since 2019 world cup finals in Japan. I think the All blacks defeat is still hurting you.
I hope you get one over the All Blacks on the comin tour, but do you have what it takes?
This is hilarious! 😆🤣😂 The URC is boring for now. There’s potential but for now it’s predictable. Just stick with this format for 20 years, it’ll be something special if you don’t change it every couple years
I wouldn’t overthink this to much. From a South African point of view i think Leinster is the better side. Bulls got lucky. However i do think a mistake was made with the replacements. Maybe thats something that could be worked on a bit. Irish rugby came a long way and the future looks bright, taken what you guys learned from this season, and take it to next year. Best of luck.
I mean Harold Voster was so lucky to slip on his way scoring a try, but wait what about the time the Bulls were on their line and the tackler never released the ball, another try gone.
geez I never want to be as lucky as they were.
Take into account, the Bulls played away, they played against 13 current Irish internationals and their scrum isn't up to standard (which should be rectified next season).
The last try was basically when the Bulls realised that they had won the game.