Middle Earth is Finnish - influences of Finnish mythology on J.R.R. Tolkien's world
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- #finnishmythology #lordoftherings
The Lord of the Rings is one of the most important works of fiction and the cornerstone of the fantasy genre. But did you know that much of it is inspired by or comes directly from the Kalevala and Finnish myths? This video explores the better and lesser known connections of J.R.R. Tolkien's world and mythical Finland.
00:00 Influences of Finnish mythology on J.R.R. Tolkien's world
01:42 Bombadil and Väinämöinen
02:37 Iluvatar and Ilmatar
03:17 Bride prices and Beren
03:43 Language Quenya
04:12 Ilmarinen and all the smithy business and Sampo and the Silmarils and the Rings and all of that stuff
05:12 Angband and Pohjola
05:47 Song, music and spells
06:11 Eagles and Gandalf/Väinämöinen
06:32 Túrin and Kullervo
07:21 Ending - departure by boat
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How Tolkien fell in love with Finland / @Irish in Finland:
th-cam.com/video/XrNsltgoaww/w-d-xo.html
He also fell in love with with Welsh.
@@vaughanrichards7438 can't blame him for that
The most memorable moment of the (both book and movie) trilogy was Gandalf telling the Balrog "You shall not pass, Perkele!"
😂😂👌
Now I am thinking of Gandalf speaking awesome and amazing Finnish - perkele paska!
The most Finnish praise ever: "Tolkien did alright with his stories"
For those who are not from the north, this is a massive praise to be taken with a humble heart.
Indeed! :D
You can almost feel the enthusiasm about Finnish mythology in your voice 😅😅
Almost!
And this is how my dive into finnish mythology begins
I hope it's an interesting dive and you won't get eaten by a vetehinen or Iku-Turso
@@Anttimation By the way, Vetehinen and Iku-Turso were the names of two of the five submarines of the Finnish navy during WW2.
@@Murgoh damn right!
I'm definitely reading the Kalevala now... I knew it influenced Tolkien but now it is time to dive in since I've never read it. Finns rock!
Now I can't unsee elves basically going around shouting PRRRRKLE on the battle field.
Hahaha sounds more fitting for the orcs but I see what you mean!
@@Anttimation Or maybe dwarves.
Tolkien fell in love with the Finnish language ( and who wouldn’t? ) which led him to Kalevala and eventually creating The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Which is really cool.
My point is a matter of historical, biographical fact. You can look it up in books on Tolkien.And of course he read the sagas and Edna’s; they fell within his academic field.
Text was mid-corrected from “Eddy’s” to Edna’s”! - sometimes autocorrect is a hoot.
Miscorrected again! Autocorrect doesn’t like”Eddas”!
@Marcus It is because of Kalevala that we have the story of the Ring.
Great video! My English partner refused to listen to your reasoning but I think there’s a clear link between Kalevala and LOTR. He was trying to make a national epos for England to look like the ones he loved and even if he didn’t mean all the parallels there are still a lot of similarities.
It's no secret Tolkien studied Finnish mythology so naturally he would incorporate what he had learned. Your partner sounds very closed minded 😂
@@_SimpleJack_ His point was that Tolkien wanted to give an origin story for England not copy Finland. I don’t think he bothered to listen to the point because the video never denied it being what Tolkien intended to write.
That's was Kalevala is pretty much - a fictional story wound together by Lönnrot from old runes. If human civilization survives another 100 years, Lord of the Rings may well be considered a national epic of England.
@@Anttimation The same way Kalevipoeg is put together from old stories combined and made into a cohesive epic poem by Kreutzwald.
@@N_0968 I really have to read that.
The Elvish Quenya indeed brought Kvens to my mind as well. There are different forms of the name in old maps and other sources with similar pronunciation. Kvenland, known as Cwenland, Cwenaland, Qwenland, Kænland. (Kvens, Qwens, Quens, Cwens, Cwenas, Kvænir) Qwnio, Qwens - by Ulfilas (in Gothic: Wulfila), c. 352; Finnas, Cwenas - by Ohthere of Hålogaland, c. 888; Finnas, Cwenas, Qwen (Qwensae) - by King Alfred the Great of Wessex, c. 890.
Epic video. Very informative. Greetings goes out from Hungary Suomi Cousins.
May the Gods bless all the Finno-Ugric Nations/Tribes.
Thank you. Greetings back!
I grew up watching the LoTR, I have a nice bookset on my bookshelf too, guess what sets before it, The Kalevala. They definitely have a strong link, but you can tell he gets a lot of other inspiration from Norse Mythology too. Great video though, much better than those who think it's linked to WWI. He wrote LoTR as an escape, not to be reminded.
I think it's good for new stories to come about from the gods of Nordic Mythology though instead of these comic superheros.
Growing up watching LotR was the best thing! I wish I'd been born just a couple of years earlier so I could have seen them in the cinemas.
@@Anttimation I only missed seeing the final one in the cinema because I was ill. I hadn’t read the book when I saw the first one and read it in English and Finnish before the second one came out. It was such a different experience to see the second film and how the creatures I imagined came to life (like Treebrard!).
One thing I have never seen mentioned is that the Kalevala in Finnish, and some translations (Crawford for example), has a meter of eight syllables per line. Many of Tolkien's songs follow the same pattern. Have a look at the magical struggle between Sauron and Finrod in the Tale of Beren and Luthien.
I have not paid attention to that. Thanks for enlightening!
I grew up watching films and readings books about Tolkien’s legendarium. 3 years ago I also started learning Finnish because I loved how it sounds 🧡
Thank you so much for your video! Now it’s my favourite TH-cam channel 🌿
Amazing comment, thank you! :)
Hieno homma. Kippis !
I have always wanted an epic Kalevala movie but if all we get is quality of Rings of Power and Hobbit movies, nah, no thanks!
Great video!
There was a project in pre-production involving Markus Selin (hyi saatana) but never got done, probably better that way. Now would be a better time than ever, there is stronger skill in the Finnish film industry unlike ever before, now someone just needs to secure funding, which is a bit of a problem. Would be so good to see instead of a millionth instalment of some Luokkaputoussimohedberg trash.
Great stuff, thanks Antti!
Thanks for watching!
Great info. Nicely done!
Thank you! 🙌🙌
such a discovery! thanks for your video offerings.
Glad you hear you've found your way here!
Another great video, I just loved it, thank you for making them. Sending all my best to you, Maggie
Thanks so much Maggie!
Great video, thanx for making this, keep up the good work!
Thank you! A new episode is in the making...
Looking forward to that👍@@Anttimation
Have to say Im soooo happy that there are great history content, like your channel nowadays in youtube.
If I wouldnt have become a musician, maybe a historian really.
Well I did have to do the decision, as I was accepted to study history in uni, but turned that down because music studies. But it has remained passion of mine.
Going to start to do more History content on my channel (or maybe start a new channel for that). Lets see.
At the moment drinking morning coffee and watching fourth video by you.
Cheers from the Village of Fiskars, have great day!
@@Anttimation
Brilliant. Simply brilliant. This was a really great video. I’ve read LOTR and other books by Tolkien many, many times and the Kalevala a couple of times and have read how he found inspiration from old Finnish mythology. Thanks! 🙏🏻
Thanks so much for the kind words! Made my day 😎
Love all the puns and word plays!
Haha I'll make sure to include some in the next one then...
The overall spirit of the mythology I saw in this film had many similarities to Turkic Shamanist/Tengriist mythology, which by the way, also has a Middle Earth where the humans, animals, and so on, live. Add the similarities between Finno-Ugric languages and Turkic, one can see the evidence of some common ancestry in Siberia.
Interesting! I am not familiar with Turkic myths at all... at least not yet.
I think the concept of word-based magic in Kalevela prophesied the development of computer science and computational modelling for engineering. In ancient times, people just looked at the deep complexity of nature, and realized there is some deep order inside that could potentially be understood and controlled. In our time, our modern blacksmiths use the language of computers to investigate the nature of reality and create new tech products.
That's an interesting way to look at it and something I've certainly never thought about. Thanks for sharing
@@Anttimation I think Kalevala is a lot about thinking about what things are physically made of and the deeper meaning (such as cultural meaning) behind why they are made that way. Also, I think Kalevala shows awareness of how poetry and language shape our minds to perceive the world in different ways, which is a power of language that can be used for good or evil (e.g., sharing the truth vs. making propaganda/false narratives). Basically, it is a kind of ancient folk psychological and philosophical wisdom.
Great video and animation (sinä olet velho)! I have a growing love and respect for Finnish things, and I end up doing deep dives in things I love.
I think that part of what Tolkien did was to make a believable, cohesive take on the ancient stories surrounding greater Europe, finding commonalities in them. Finnish lore definitely plays a part in the world he built. The inspiration is there.
I don’t really want to watch RoP, though I own multiple copies of LoTR, including books and movies. I have also read and seen The Hobbit. I’m a fan of what Tolkien created. RoP takes quite the modern, creative license on things. Too much seems out of character and spirit for me (mostly Galadriel). They worked hard and I’m sure it will appeal to some fans.
Thank you Joshua!
RoP was set to fail from the moment they decided to make a Second Age show without the rights to Silmarillion. So instead of giving the fans the story they already love, they made their own. Might work if you'd not read the books.
@@Anttimation From what I've seen of RoP, it's täysi susi. Having read the Kalevala which deals with Kullervo's life and Sibelius' fabulous orchestration of it alongside the Silmarillion, the influence on the story of Turin Turambar is extremely strong. To paraphrase a well-used sananlasku: you can tell the new tales, when you've told all the old ones.
As a full blooded Finnish American, at the age of 64 I’m delving into my history and heritage.
Now I can understand why I just never spiritually understood Biblical fiction and the blood spilled in its name…
Glad to hear! And also hoping you'll find these videos useful
Thank you
Thank you for watching.
Ilúvatar may contain traces of Ilmatar, but it is also a linguistic incarnation of the Allfather, Odinn.
I had no idea about this at all, im swedish and a hobby historian and lotr nerd, how did i miss this?
Glad you discovered it eventually!
Oldiest part of Kalevala are from stone age. Kalevala has inflict much that later come Eddas and Beowulf. Beowulf has odd connect to Kalevala.
Not suprize that Tolkien like it.
Also versions of the creation myths (the diver myth) are also found in N. America, likely formed before the migration of the ancestors of the Native Americans. Really old stuff!
Salve Karjala ! 😇
Well, at least Finland has become the opposite of Middle Earth in the modern times. Very few castles, fortresses, oak forests or surviving traditions and no royalty, mountains, legendary people or great waterfalls. This is mostly a cold country filled with concrete boxes: not even close to what Tolkien had in mind. The language is nice, if you detach it from the context.
Well if we add the woods/nature spoiled in favour of industry, don't we then pretty much have Mordor?
Ilmarisen vasara on Otava.
Sen voi kuvitella näyttäneen eniten vasaralle muinaiselle ihmiselle.
Esim. Hakaristi symboli on tullut kun yhdistetään yhteen kuvaan Otavan sijainti eri päivätasauksissa.
Otava sijaitsee pohjantähden vierellä ja pyörii vuoden mukaan sen ympäri.
Tässä havaitaan myös ns. Ilmarisen taonta.
Iso sampo pyörii jauhaen pois vanhaa, samalla luoden uutta.
Mistäs tämä tieto?
Not to be complete grape in mouth about you're video, i had to check the Tom Bombadil part since i've forgotten about him, i readed LOTR after the movies and really did not remember anything about Tom Bombadil so thank you for the reminder. It was nice to read the LOTR parts again where Tom Bombadil appears, he is the most mysterious character in Middle-Earth and maybe unfinished character since J.R.R has gone to heaven, maybe i will hear who Tom Bombadil is after i die :) Bombadil uses singin to free the hobbits from "Old Man Willow" by singing into it's tree trunk, this magical tree lures his pray then makes em sleep but his powers are nowhere near of Tom Bombadil
The identity of Bombadil has been speculated a lot but I think there's an interview where he admits that he's a riddle, hehe
@@Anttimation Ok the words that come out of J.R.R Tolkien are golden in my book, so he is a mystery :) Thank you for telling me !
Music by Karneh. :)
Fits like a sword tip between the ribs!
Greetings to Finnish paganism from German paganism! If Russian Orthodoxy tries to get their grubby hands on Finland again, Finland deserves more international backing than last time!
Well, let's hope they're smarter than to try that again...
Well, he took heavy inspiration from many cultures and sagas and myths. Greek, Nordic, Slavic, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Irish, etc. So not surprising he also got inspiration from Finnish myths and language. Only thing Tolkien didnt like, was French which he openly stated. Such an open mind yet so narrow in some regards 🙂
Specific taste, but I guess not uncommon for the English to not like some things French. If I remember correctly, he also criticized his friend CS Lewis' mixing of Greek and Nordic myths in Narnia.
@@Anttimation So Lewis came up with God of War Ragnarök?
He got Theodoric of the Visigoths in there. And he had influences from the song of Roland which is basically French. And Gondor has a lot in common with Byzantium.
Terve! Kiitos! Perkele! That's the extent of my Finnish, I doubt Tolkien would be impressed. XD
That's a solid foundation! 😁
I like that is a troll or a goblin is explaining Kalevala here.
Due to limited budget I couldn't hire an actor. Trolls have reduced rates.
What a cute little troll! Or whatever. Most impressive animation.
It is a troll indeed! Thank you!
@@Anttimation I subbed :)
@@bookmouse2719 welcome! A new video should be out soon 😎
You did not mention that Silmarillion is "S ILMARI LLION". 😅
😂😂
4:35 ...prosperity...and lots of trouble...! 🙁
🐸
🐸
supposedly, the very idea that wizards use staffs to cast spells comes from finnish mythology but i don't see that
Hmm, I haven't heard of that nor can I think of a Finnish example off the back of my head
Kalevala day. 12 sons of Kaleva, three reached ancient Finland. 12 judge stones in the old pennic fennic villages also for wives. High calling of wives vis-a-vis Proverbs 31. Kveenit Kainuu kvinna queens the vikings and Tacitus laughed. Suomi Seem Shem saame Saimaa shamaani mythological legacy.
Sauna at saturdays, sapatti Sabbath. Megalith stones via Arzareth plains of Siberia, druid refers to "oaks" where the bones of patriarcs and matriarchs wait sequencing at Mamre. Paternal Y chromosome & maternal mitochondrial DNA.
Hebrew Finnish affinity: Em - emo, emä emäntä, äiti. Ab - appi, father of wife Chaverim- kaveri, haveri. Tippa - tippa. Pissa - pissa. Ovi, avata. Jalan. Car - karja. Loo nirhaa - äLä murhaa thou shall not murder.
Puoch - puhua. Nuoch - nuokkua, nukkua. Perse. Cherpah. Ruoch - ruoka/henki.
Map of USA resembles a whale. Sign of Jonah for the evil generation that demolishes marriagehood. Cetos, not iktys.
Decapoli, 10 heathen mother cities. Scythapolis at the west bank of Jordan where Jeshua worked as naggare nikkari plough smith for the invaders. Manly ex drunk Andreas Antero Vipunen from beth-Araba Qumran og Zadokite Temple priests trained by Jouchanan Joukahainen and sent by Magister Jeshua to Scythia Scotland and Magog Ukraine but wandered up to kake Ladoga, Antreas town and contemporary Arkangel arch angel. Both keep the cross of Andrew as heraldic symbol. Antero Vipunen vipuristi key figure in Kalevala. Big Oak Babeltower: Strong central government was a curse to pen Finns. Pen, Pun the son of Issaschar grandson of Job. Only the names of the 3 daughters of old Job are mentioned, not 7 sons
Rx-100 LPA S1P for radiation poisoning
www.biokemia.fi/Bushism_sins_of_the_fathers.htm
www.dinoglyphs.fi
359 number of Shin Thet Nuun 25.12. 359. Day of the year. Saturnalia Ukon & Raunin maljat Mithras. Jeshua was born 9 months after the darkest day.
www.biokemia.fi/Kalevala.html
www.biokemia.fi/Vainamoisen_veneenveistosta.htm
www.biokemia.fi/Dinosauruslegendat.htm
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I pray that you regain your sight little goblin guy.
That could be arranged...
Germanic + Uralic = based
For those (well most) who don't know: Kalevala was, unfortunately, mostly stolen by Lönnrot from Karelians. :/ It's not really Finnish. But I expect Tolkien was unaware of this.
Half of Kalevala's material can be found in Estonia. Did they "steal" it as well? In Lönnrot's time Karelia was not seen as a separate nation with people much different to the Finns as far as I know. The rune singing was a common tradition of Finnic peoples, and many of the runes of Kalevala originate e.g. in Western Finland.
Haistappa kuule.
Where you think Savonians came from? Finnish Karelians? Those Finns who descent from Karelian evacuees? I mean if you are Finno-Swede living in Ostrobothnia then I can understand the argument that the book has nothing to do with you but other than that haistappa vaan.
Karjalaiset ovat suomalaisia… eli Lönröt ei varastanut keneltäkään mitään, koska itseltään ei voi varastaa
LOTR is implicitly Nordic so its very reasonable for people to get annoyed with Hollywoods constant "Brown washing" I dont like when movies white wash characters either..
Well the idea of adapting a historical or classic fiction to reflect today's society takes a lot away from the work it's supposed to adapt to begin with.
and i discorved finnish mythology through metal
Not uncommon! Proud of our bands :)
@@Anttimation ensiferum for example
Christian Finnish Frostiis J.R.R Tolkien was very angry about his favorite story in Silmarillion the Túrin Turambar's story is just plagiarization of Kalevala's Kullero story, even if the author himself was angry the finnish still keep the mention of Kullervo on the back of J.R.R Tolkien's books and that is disrespecting. Gandalf is a angel J.R.R himself explained that the deities of Middle-Earth are better understood by christians as they know of the hierarchy of angels. Lets remember that J.R.R Tolkien wanted to make a story that promotes christian values (the author of Narnia books also went with this route after the two had a converstation about the issue) no longer would Britain have to endure they're national epoch being pro-christian fiction The King Arthur's story. So as you can see the Middle-Earth is more inspired by christianity than pagan beliefs, not to say J.R.R Tolkien was not interested in them but you can go so much overboard with this that you actually got J.R.R Tolkien angry. I am finnish and i've in the same boat with J.R.R just if the story has similar features, that does not make the story plagarization and he had every right to be offended. Let's finnish people be glad what we have contributed to Middle-Earth but let's also remember who wrote the books and we finnish did not write Tolkiens work but we as anyone else get to enjoy them. Iluvitar is just Ilmatar... to much jumping to conclusions ! Tolkein wanted to spread christian values thorough his work, he would not name his prime deity as just wind. You read too much into paganism, this is the attitude that ruins the feeling of J.R.R Tolkiens work, just purely like the historians like vultures you rip pieces of the original meaning away. Sampo gives only profit, Middle Earth relics give power Louhi is just a human as Morgoth is Arch-Angel type being, you cannot compare. You too would make J.R.R mad with you're plagarization accusations on the Túrin Turambar & Kullervo story. That story is like i said J.R.R favorite and my favorite of Silmarillion, maybe you should read more J.R.R than you're pagan endorsing pages
Turin's story is Kullervo's story but set in Middle Earth ;)
@@Anttimation Sorry no if J.R.R is a pissed about that accusation and i am also a christian like him i believe him and i am pissed. I know everyone says that since the stories have 1 similar situations, but my God give J.R.R Tolkien who said that's his favorite Silmarillion story (mine too, probably everyones) some credit as he wrote the story of Túrin Turambar and it's not a plagarization of Kullervo since that would go against the original concept of J.R.R Tolkien to spread christian values without making christian fiction thorough fantasy it would be the polar opposite where J.R.R Tolkien is thorough plagarization spreading pagan mythology thorough fantasy but as you've seen J.R.R Tolkien really hid the christian values in the story, as for the similarities of Túrin Turambar & Kullervo all for all to see. I do not believe Túrin Turambar is the Kullervo in middle-earth, Túrin Turambar story starts with his father Húrin and you could say that Túrin story is still a piece of a larger story known as the The Children of Húrin
@@Anttimation Not to be complete grape in mouth about you're video, i had to check the Tom Bombadil part since i've forgotten about him, i readed LOTR after the movies and really did not remember anything about Tom Bombadil so thank you for the reminder. It was nice to read the LOTR parts again where Tom Bombadil appears, he is the most mysterious character in Middle-Earth and maybe unfinished character since J.R.R has gone to heaven, maybe i will hear who Tom Bombadil is after i die :)
Your tone makes it hard to followed, it seems you did that on purpose, it's not cool , it's boring, doesn't keep your attention
I'm only a writer, illustrator, animator, refrigerator - but no voice actor.
Consider it your introduction to the Finnish pattern of talking, too ;)
So Middle Earth is Wacist coz it is Finnish??? hahaha
Wacist? 😅
@@Anttimation Dont pay the weeb too much attention, he's just jealous cuz he cant make videos 🙂 But wacist is slang for "Descriptor for things that retarded, attention horny " Stay strong, trolls dont fear daylight but being ignored 🙂
Great video, im only just beginnin to learn about finnish mythology so please forgivr me if im wrong: you note that iluvatar is a clear analogue for the christian God because tolkien was christian, but i think you fail to mention that lönnrot was also a devout christian, and that was his analogy for Ilmatar as well, there are also references to the virgin birth (impregnated by a lingenberry), i might have misunderstood what you were saying though
No, sounds right to me! I don't remember from the back of my head what is said in the video :D