The real painful part is the implication, that the dev wasn't even playing the game or even aware of what was actually happening to his players. What were the the play testers doing? Was anyone on his team playing the game at all and aware of these issue? How was he so oblivious to such a common issue, that he only changed things once he was personally put on the spot? Watching the video i just get the idea that the developers have no real clue what they are doing
@@bigdumbfatcat2869 Maybe the playtesters were playing the game "normally" hence don't see the degenerate shit being pulled off in real play, which reminds me of a saying in Magic the Gathering: "Just as Richard Garfield (the creator of MtG) intended". And similarly had a famous story where Richard was playing with a "fan" who was gushing about the game while infinitely locking Richard out from playing the game.
Reminds me of when the Anarchy Reigns Devs got whooped publicly on their unbalanced game Link: th-cam.com/video/Q2KScq3DsvY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Laam1z-1iETdGksQ
>be me >19 >work 16 hour shift >get home >"ill try to unwind after a terrible day" >bootup dbd as Michael Myers >proceed to get teamed up on by 4 very coordinated bills >"well it happens, onto the next ma-" >*you have received a message* >*is a meme of the dark souls knight telling me to "git gud" I havent played it since lol. Loved the gameplay but its taxing
What this game DOES have in common with league is a playerbase who constantly bitches about and bashes the game claiming their undying hatred for it, but still play it every single day for a decade.
I've been an onlooker and peanut gallery of the DBD community because I'm so fascinated with their revolving circus of angst, disappointment, boredom, and very rare moments of genuine fun and happiness that seem to fuel the whole thing, combined with the atrocious behavior of the development company in an almost poetically beautiful real life representation of The Entity feeding on emotions. It's fascinating, and entertaining. Kinda like how hating playing No Man's Sky was better than playing NMS when it first released, but stretched out over 8 years with no improvement whatsoever instead of the mud to magnificence story of NMS.
Everyone who has 1000 hours in a AAA game hates the game they play, but to feed the addiction they must keep playing. This is how I am with overwatch and siege.
Holy shit I'll steal this. It's so true!! I am personally a casual gamer (tm) so I'm rarely the asshole (I think) but man o man have other people in that game done shit to me. After playing since 2017 I grew thick skin. Not much gets me to have a real reaction any more - but sometimes some people still manage.
Man that's not even the woooooorst part. So the game had a rage quit penalty where if you disconnected before the game was over, you can't rejoin a new game for a few minuets. This penalty would increase drastically the more often you did it, until you couldn't play for days or even weeks. Dead by Daylight is fairly easy to hack, so hackers could force you to disconnect while telling the server you've disconnected 10 times in a row and ban you for a month. The issue was so bad that the devs just turned off the rage quit penalty because they couldn't figure out how to fix it. The problem is that the rage quit penalty exists because the scoring system in this game is based off interactions with other players. If every survivor quits, that's not 4 kills for the killer. That's still the killer failing to kill anyone as if they just sucked at the game. Which meant that both sides would quit the second they run into any minor inconvenience and they'd only stay on for games they're crushing, which mostly led to veterans fishing for games where they get matched with newbies and then destroying them. The matchmaking in this game is so bad that the last time i saw them have a free weekend, all of the new players didn't get matched with other new players despite there being an obvious massive jump in new player numbers. They got matched with veterans and the steam community board was flooded with threads and comments going "I'm new and just trying this for the free weekend, why am I being matched with rank 1 meta-players? I haven't even played this for an hour yet".
343 do the same thing, not only have hackers kicked you off for ages but 343's own framework is crap and will just randomly drop you, forcing you into a 20 minute wait. Useless company and always has been.
Sometimes when I play Killer, I feel like I actively have to hold myself back or else the game won't be fair. Other matches I literally don't get to do anything as three gens pop at the same time during the first chase. Also the fact that the same killer has been the best in the entire game for all eight years of its existence is telling of how poorly balanced the game can be
Same. And on the same killer too. I try to hook everyone at least once before deciding how sweaty I’m going to play. But if I double hook everyone at 5 or 4 gens I normally just let them all go. Matches like that aren’t really fun for anyone. And then the next match I’ll get curb stomped by a bunch of no migher bunny fengs with sniper rifle flashlights and head on. The matchmaking bands must be incredibly wide.
@@danirodriguez3682 it bothers me that tunneling is just the best strategy in a lot of situations, just knock this survivor out and gens (on paper) go 75% speed, especially if you can manage to hook them next to an already partially repaired generator, and then just play within a certain area of the hook until theyre dead, only giving chase if you know for a fact this survivor will be downed. Shit, you dont even have to hook camp them all the way just to second stage and then remember whos on their last. Like I have yet to see a proper counter to just "fuck this guy in particular". You have to bodyblock and even then, its not hard to get around a bodyblock or simply just take the free hit and continue tunneling. Shame to admit I did this when I was new, nowadays i dont really bother doing anything boring i just chase survivors and kick a gen if its convenient. I just play to win chases because the chase is the fun part of the game, and i dont care about my rank? Its literally more fun in lower ranks where people are running weird builds, gens are done at a reasonable rate, ect. billy aura build still the most fun thing on the planet, crossmap chainsaw hits are the best thing to do its so fun, esp with the perk that lets you see survivors at the start of the game, they dont realize im coming right for them off the rip
IMO, it's fine for the same killer to be top tier for multiple years as long as that killer is fun to play as/play against/watch. Dunno if the Nurse meets that description, mind.
@@athath2010 yeah exactly. I'm fine with Spirit, Blight and Huntress being so high-tier because they're interesting to fight and actually interact with the map geometry
That one segment where the dev is being put to the test against randos and gets beaten pretty bad, humiliated and then realizing that it's not fun is a worrying sign that devs might be laying out ideas, realizing it and do not test how it feels in practice.
This is every multiplayer game that is not balanced closely or has pros that help, while I am indiferent about tft (riot games) , mortdog the main guy working on it is challenger (highest rank) and while he isn't the top 50 players from what I remember he has a very good idea of the game
Valve should do a think where for like a year they hand CS2 over to a brand new cabal of devs who preferably don't play the game, or if they do they are not be allowed to have over 10K ELO. Just to see what kind of bullshit happens and break the brains of the pro scene. Train bots using Donk demos. Fuck it.
Often how devs *expect* players to play the game isn't how they actually *do* play the game - or something that is a minor issue if it happens infrequently becomes a major issue to any player unlucky enough to experience it many times in a row. Devs are always flying partly blind, no matter how dedicated they are. Even devs who play their game constantly can run into issues because they get USED to the problems and they start to feel 'comfortable' with them. Often playing a game too much numbs you to the major pain points, while exacerbating minor annoyances that might not even bother most players. It's important to regularly play competing games in the genre for this reason, to learn what the standards actually are and remember there are better ways to do things. You also should watch new players, expert players, and a lot of other players streaming to see how they experience the game, read community feedback, etc... All that is completely doable. If you don't have a dayjob. But you also have to make the game. And you should have some hours for things besides the game too. It's a constant resource management puzzle. Very easy to miss things.
Dead By Daylights greatest weakness is that trying to win the game makes the game less fun for everyone inherently. Any strategy you use to win is seen as a negative to the point basic strategies are seen as being a morally bad person. Balance in PVP games is so exceedingly important cause without it, no one is actually having any fun.
Yeah pretty much. The game is very fun when played at a low level, but even reaching moderate skill is painful. I played it years ago, reached red rank killer, and quit. Then I came back, and intentionally let everyone go after 2 hooking from then on. Game is fun now. It's a fundamentally broken game that is still very fun, but only if you play it incorrectly.
@@Garresh1 "The game is fun, but only if you play it incorrectly." Such a perfect summary of DbD. Me and my friends have more fun just goofing around in this game than really playing how it's intended.
Reminds me of Indie Survival game "The Isle", where the lead dev kept telling people who complained about the game being shoddy to "Just make their own game". Fast forward to now and "Isle clone" has become a niche subgenre that pumps out way more games than the small consumer base can reasonably support
Honestly don't bother. The game has been going in an "objectively" good direction now. It's way more balanced than it used to be. The community still constantly complains and is quite toxic (not everyone but even if they are a minority they're heard all right). To me at least it's become incredibly boring. There's really only one viable playstyle, for both roles.
It's actually really fun but when you win a few games as killer and get put up again a 4 man swf with all meta perks it loses its charm. You have to sweat and play in a way that will get you toxic messages from crybabies who think the killer is only the to mess with and bully until they do all gens and leave.
i feel like having the response to an oppressive survivor meta be releasing a new killer to counter it is possibly one of the worst decisions you could make to balance your game
exactly this. all it does is force players to pick a specific killer or insta-lose every match, which just saps the fun out of the game. wanna main X? too bad! the only way to win games is to play our brand new killer!
Nurse is free killer, so they could maybe only sell skins, but still that makes other killers sell less skins if nobody plays them. So lose/lose situation for devs and players.@@ultimaxkom8728
There is a term called "dogfooding" where the person who makes a product/service, actually consumes the product/service. (The root being a dogfood producer being so confident in the quality of their food they would be willing to eat it) Dogfooding is important in game development because without it you end up with situations like that twitch stream at 17:30. The dev clearly spends so much time looking at forests that he doesn't know what a tree is.
I mean, playing the game is important cause you can then see how you can improve your balance decisions on the game in the future until you decide to stop it
DBD devs are the most out of touch devs out there. They proudly admit that they dont play their own game and have no idea about anything. They just use some flawed statistic for their work.
@@someaccount5200 That would be a good point, but that only happens if the devs can maintain impartiality and objectivity when researching potential balance problems or coming up with improvements; those who are not just play testing but consuming their own product tend to fall victim to the same biases that consumers do.
@@robertnomok9750the final decision is up to lead designers and they almost never play their own games. Even if the game studios had a big round table weekly meeting where they consulted all their employees on game balance you would still have a majority of people have no idea what they’re talking about. Imagine working on a game, staring at character models, playtesting the content, coding, receiving community feedback (death threats) AND going home and launching the game that you work on. If someone does it, it’s like 2-3 people in the company who do not represent the playerbase with its varying playstyles and skill levels. What you’re left with is relying on community feedback, but look at any community of a pvp game, these people couldn’t give a crap about “balance”, they want their main to be strong and screw everybody else who’s trying to enjoy the game. Especially in DbD where everyone wants their own. Not only are skill levels juxtaposed but the roles aren’t your Overwatch variety of “character archetype” in a team of 5-6, it’s one strong character chosen from a roster with drastic differences in power levels and a team of four weak characters who function the same. Imagine asking someone who mains an F-tier killer in mid-ranks for their opinions on balancing the whole killer roster in *all* ranks. It’s not possible to keep the no-lifers who spend hours on the game daily happy while not scaring the beginner players with the likes of Pig who still absolutely stomps noobs while getting nerfed every few months. The devs are very much average in how they treat the game balance compared to other companies, the game itself just has an extremely peculiar design and a playerbase that is never happy and doesn’t actually know what it wants.
Player: "Hey im not really having a good time playing your game because its so unbalanced" Dev "Well fuckin play something else, or have you concidered taking a nap?"
As a game dev and enjoyer of DBD it's interesting to see it all laid out like that! So many of these issues (apart from the WTF were they thinking ones) seem to stem from the devs not recognizing that what might be good for low MMR would be bad for high MMR or vice versa. From what I've seen on other channels they seem to also fall into the trap of big-picture spreadsheet-based tweaks without considering the full implications for why things are the way they are. TL;DR It seems pretty clear that Behavior has a long history of neglecting player psychology when making changes. Good vid!
>developer only realizes his game is fucked when he is coaxed into playing a match on a korean tv program >he hadn't played his game and didn't know the state it was in What the fuck man
The history of the game, if you look at it, showed that from the beginning, the game was designed with bad/mediocre at best survivors in mind. The devs likely aren't very good players, and are likely mostly playing survivors. All the dumpsterfire balancing decisions from nerfing weak Freddys and pigs to never nerfing Nurses to having like, 20 different completely broken perks/add-ons for survivors vs... dunno, 2-3? broken stuff for killers only makes sense if the game is balanced based on their (bad to mediocre) survivor gameplay and taking everything else off statistics with zero weighing done. And it's shocking how much sense the balancing makes if seen from that angle.
to an extent every game has some form of silent social rules, like griefing your team by blocking things, targetting 1 person or just being toxic is BM regardless of which side you're on. But with that said, yeah DBDs balancing issues are really bad lmao
The single biggest reason for DBD's horrible balancing issue that has persists even 8 years since its release is that the Devs (BHVR) had and ALWAYS will only balance their game based on statistics instead of actual player's experience. Just look, the strongest killer of the game, and has been so since the game's release. Is the same one that has the lowest kill rate out of all killers.
@@Nobody77246 The thing about those stats that the devs don't realize is that the reason the strongest killer (Nurse) has such a low kill rate is because she is also one of the least played killers. So the kill rate they look at isn't even an actual kill rate, it's just a collection of kills - if Nurse was played more often then the 'kill rate' would be even higher
Making a dev go through the suffering they themselves create and in such a public display was one of the most satisfying stories I've ever heard of. I'll even take it one step further and call it a fantasy come true. One step further you say? If they were to make a reality show out of that concept alone I would watch it.
next step is make the executives who order microtransactions and lootboxes to be added into games be forced to obtain all the random items without spending money
Call it "The Grind" and challenge devs of games with a lot of backlash to reach one of the highest MMR tiers. If they win it's a big sponsorship bundle but if they give up they have to live with the shame of it being televised.
When dev dude picked Hag i thought it was some kind of weird flex at the time because Hag was bottom tier, but then i realized that he's just a complete noob who had no idea what he's doing.
when I saw the title, I dismissed the video as some hyperbolic-clickbait nonsense. I later click on it out of curiosity, and oh my god dude, I am sorry for ever doubting you
the biggest problem with this game is the devs dont seem to understand you cant make a 1 v 4 game where one player from the four person team can effectivly counter the solo killer
i had a much less important comment before don't worry about it 5:47 was such an outplay what the hell pretend to go put away your plate because the other player's watching your stream and use a controller to make sure you can grab them even while you're not at your keyboard actual god of deception
My friend gifted me this game. He had a thousand hours on it. I played it for a bit but had to stop because my PC wasn't that good at the time. The following week he told me he quit because the game was bad.
So it took a thousand hours before he realized the was bad? Sounds like he still got alot of value out of his money. $20 for a thpusand hours of playtime is an amazing deal
@@HerEvilTwin The game doesn't ever really stay the same. You might've really enjoyed the game at one point, but due to all the massive changes that has occured since then, you lost interest in it.
the game director telling you to play another game in response to player complaints is so insulting and absurd. Clearly does not give a shit about the game.
I firmly stand behind the fact that players ruin games just as much as devs do. People have been meta slaving and tryharding since before streamers and the big TH-cam boom simply because people will do anything to win because their fun isn't drawn from the games they play, its from how well they do at said games. It's a people problem, from the devs lack of legwork to the abrasive playerbases who make playing these games insufferable. People need to teach their kids not everything is about winning and the experience of doing what you like is more important than perceiving yourself as being really good at doing what you like.
@@DougdimmadinglelingI don’t really mind people who try their best to win. That’s on the devs to make the meta non-toxic. When I blame the players is things like bully squads who aren’t trying to win and just waste as much time as possible
@@Dougdimmadingleling From a young age it's drilled into your head that you get rewarded for doing the correct thing / giving the right answer, and punished if you do anything but that. I think some people may be very susceptible to this and don't have the space in their mind to consider why they have to do this or any other option. They just have to exploit, cheat, metaslave and ruin any semblance of fun or variety. Now combine this with basically 0 consequences in online gaming and most importantly; unable to choose who you play with (If you act like a dick, nobody is gonna play with you anymore in real life) and you end up with a small % of toxic players ruining it for the rest.
When I entered this video, I thought you were talking about League of Legends or something like that, and I thought to myself "I wish they knew Identity V, that's unbalanced" and the more I got into the video the more I realized that Identity V was not as unbalanced as I thought it was.
yeah same i want idv players who constantly whine about the game being unbalanced to watch this video (although gamekeeper and priestess do desperately need adjustments)
Idv has survivor roles that specialize in actually rescuing survivors. Also tunneling and camping is effectively incentiviced as it is an effective strategy as well but not as effective as it was in DBD. At its core idv is more balanced than DBD ever will. And that's saying something of a gacha Chinese game.
Legit, i could never get into dead by daylight because of this issue and played idv instead. Idv has its issues with balancing but it is in a much better state currently then DBD…
the fact that being camped is something you have to just expect and accept in idv sucks tho. players keep saying it’s a strategy, or that it’s required to win as killer, but that fact doesn’t make the experience more fun. it’s definitely one of the biggest reasons i lost interest in idv. both as a killer and survivor
@@rndThursday 01. is, that....the eve online franchise's (00:00)? 02. '-of The Worst Balanced Game Ever'. (Shortly, for now): Feh. those 'fellows', Majority on the Destinyverses franchise's (More so about their own PvP/player-only multiplayer. one of the root causes of bungo's current IP's state) section is relatively Fitting for that, yes (to This Day still. meanwhile, a bit sad for the Destiny 1 game's then. still having a forever, update-less, Broken Crucible section of modes ever since bungo and us all moved forward into the 'sequel''s lifespan). for a Big Example. (Gameplay-wise speaking).
@@blazaybla22 Keep in mind his comment was edited. So this unreadable brain diarrhea is what resulted from them trying to fix what was presumably worse before. I shudder to imagine.
I really appreciate how accessible this video is to someone only passingly familiar with Dead By Daylight. You could have told this exact same story with the exact same information but made it impenetrable. Great job.
I had a period of about a year, when I really liked Dead by Daylight. I played it a lot, as a dwight with generator perks, or as a trapper with the trapper perks, also hooking in the basement, trapping vaults and pallets, letting people run into them. I also played legion but I didn't like it. I watched a bunch of Otzdarva videos, and played it a lot. I didn't even know this video was about DBD, but it rings oddly true. I would play nice, would never hook the same person twice unless needed, wouldn't hook camp, deliberately leaving the hook. I would activate "annoying playstyle" when they played flashlights, speed medkits and genrush toolkits, trying to win. This video rings oddly true. You want to have fun until the others don't, and then it's just bad for everyone. I loved the game but I stopped playing it for these reasons, even if I didn't directly realize them. I like this video, it's a good video.
"Hey, I used to love playing killer but now they're not good. Can you make killer more fun to play?" "Well have you tried playing survivor?" I can't even think of a funny quip or anything it's just so stupid. Like, I shouldn't have to resort to that? Because it should be fun on both sides?
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he probably misinterpreted the message, thinking they were saying that killer was getting kinda stale after playing it for so long and not that killer was heavily underpowered
@@DoctorTheo No, he didn't misinterpret, he's done that crap multiple times. The game devs are pretty well known for being either actual morons or a-holes. One dev even snapped at people for them daring to keep asking for a specific accessibility option, only for the rest of the devs reveal said option after the backlash grew massive.
Replies like that are quite irksome. There were replies to questions in a Pokémon magazine I had once. One question asked simply "After catching all of the Pokémon and beating the Elite Four, is there anything else?", and the response they got was "What do you expect? A slap-up meal for two?" Like, what was the writer's problem? These were kids they were responding to
Dead by daylight, if you think the devs are bad, the player base is more so, simply put, "if you are not able to understand exactly everything under 1 second, fuck off"
The community is really what puts me off of this game. Even League doesn't have a community that hates the game so much they actively try to ruin it for others. From in-game to the Subreddit to the forums, everyone who plays this game sucks all around.
My fav thing was asking how to get into comp lobby's for practicing, and was told you need at least 1000 hours before you can even join. Thats just there rule. they wont even let you PRACTICE with them until you have 1000 hours. Funniest thing is, ive actually got in one because they said "we will show you how high the skill ceiling is" only for them to get 3ked by a killer who had 400 hours, while the had 7000 collectively. The only reason i didn't 4k was because of the hatch. They are legit delusional. None of them were particularly good might a add, not even as a dig, ive legit had more trouble in solo que, it was such a weird experience i just noped out of that scene right away.
@heavensgate2245 the L4D2 versus community isn't as bad, of course you will get called an idiot and a dumbass for simple mistakes sure but that is roughly tame.
@@ZombieKitty321LMAOO 😂 What a bunch of clowns 😂 nobody take this trash game seriously except idiot like them and they got destroy by a new player lol
The one thing that keeps getting repeated is "and there's nothing you can do." Legion's old stabbing mechanics, old Ruin, insta-blind flashlights, infinite loops, insta-heals, etc. They keep adding things that have no counter play that just give players game breaking "I win" buttons. The only difference is that when killers get them they get nerfed/reworked immediately, but survivors get to keep there's for up to years at a time...
To be fair, there are a few killer things that stayed in the game long past their welcome. Blight and Nurse were absolutely cracked for far too long to be healthy, Spirit's original design was horrifically uninteractive, old Undying, Shape's tombstone+piece (while that could be argued as a license decision, they _buffed_ tombstone, and tombstone piece still exists along side it for no real reason). That's not to say that there wasn't problems with survivor mechanics, too. Both had-and in some cases _have_ , mechanics that aren't designed well. This isn't even a "one side is favored more" thing, this is a "there is a non-zero chance that the current devs can't understand the code of the game enough to make meaningful changes" problem. And that's concerning for the overall health of both the game and the company. Rant over, thanks for reading; if we met I'd offer you a firm handshake-no hard feelings, your opinion is valid.
The things to keep in mind is that the "I Win Button" largely comes in the form of perks, and how you get perks? You buy characters and grind to unlock perks. The game is technically p2W BUT you still have to grind like it's a mobile game. DbD is a unique abomination in gaming.
Dead by Daylight is one of those games for me, where I've never played a solitary minute of it but I'm absolutely fascinated by everything surrounding it. It's the most unapologetic salt producing entity I've ever learned of in my life and I hope it goes on for a hundred years making people cry and scream.
I've heard people speak ill of it a few times over the years but holy crap I didn't know it was THIS bad. I actually thought it might have been a decent game that just had salty players, after watching this video I realize how wrong I was. And how fortunate I am that I never decided to try the game. You're right in that it's fascinating how much salt the game produces yet people still play it anyway.
I'm glad I took the time to watch. It's far from being as hyperbolic, clickbait-y and "complain-y" as I thought it'd be. I used to be very invested in DBD, like I felt personally insulted when a killer/group of survs would play the bullying game one way or the other. Nowadays I'm much more chill about it, and it's only fun times even when I'm being bullied.... BUT that doesn't mean the problem came from me, or that the game was perfect, it just meant that the solution to me not having fun *could* come from me and that's a massive difference. I'm a game dev myself, and sometimes I'm a little taken aback by certain choices. I find my fun, sure - but it doesn't mean that I don't find some aspects of the game completely boring in itself. My personal worst period was when every killer was running Ruin + Noed and survs had all the same perks combos. The games were all the same, the plot twists were not twists anymore... Really the best that happened was when I started randomising my perks and getting into games where other players would randomise theirs, or at least shake things up. Does that mean that you sometimes have a HORRIBLE build? Yeah of course, and it's just funny. But sometimes you stumble upon little gold nuggets of builds that are completely and unexpectedly fun.
As someone who used to play this game all the time, wayyyy back when, I feel like a big problem with it was how the gameplay for the survivors became more action-orientated rather than sneaky. When a chase occurs, from a survivors perspective, it should be the most terrifying and hard part, with careful use of windows and the pallets to give you enough time to escape. The majority of the game should be spent working on gens and trying to *hide* from the killer, I mean, look at all the walls perfectly sized to crouch behind and closets to hide in. Instead, through perks and flashlights, looping around pallets, it became better, if not *easier* to lead the killer on wild goose chases. Spending many minutes at a time wasting the killers time knowing there's not a lot they can do as long as there is a pallet nearby or if you have the right perks. One of the biggest reasons I stopped playing this game (aside from microtransaction hell) was the response so many people gave to killers struggling with chases. If you found yourself unable to catch a survivor, constantly chasing but never able to hit them, ask a member of the community what to do, and most of the time the response would be "Just give up on the chase." This baffled me, because then what? Find someone else who leads you on a chase too and just, never catch them? I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to have a good chase, but the idea that you could be the killer running after a victim, and the victim is the one in control the *entire* time completely beats the point, and theme, of being a killer in the game. Sorry for the long post, But I truly believe if they had just focused more on a stealth focus for the survivors rather than action, it would be a lot more balanced and fitting.
The problem is that a stealth focus gameplay would still be tedious than what we currently have, just in a different way You get survivors who can get hooked a total of 3 times before they die, on huge maps - you'd still likely lose as a killer, but with zero player interactivity in that regard. I think other asym games tried to remedy this, like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but then those games also suffered from the playerbase complaining about players being too stealthy which led to them speeding the game up a little.
@@cattysplatthe game has a consistent player base, it’s not dying or dead, and I haven’t seen a game where there are as much players with thousands of hours.
Look man I’m sorry but this sounds like a massive skill issue, if someone is really lopping your ass to the point where it is no longer beneficial to down them, then finding some else is a better idea because you might find them on a part of the map with easier loops and pallets or even complete dead zones. If you still cannot down them then play a different killer, there are more than 30 each with unique abilities that excel at different tactics. Want an early hit mixed with hit and run stealth? play Wraith. you want fast paced high adrenaline gameplay with great movement? Pick up Blight. you want strong anti loop with zoning ? Then pick up the pyramid head. Also on the matter of stealth, it become increasingly boring the more stealthy the player base gets, we can see that now with the perk “diversion” where it basically negates all aura reading perks and suppresses your scratch marks afterwards. There are several stealth perks that can work well but is that really what you want? To never interact with the killer and have them looking around for you until they spot you in a corner halfway through the game? With so many killers and so many abilities you would choose to just do gens and not interact with the most fun part of the game.
The problem here isn't stealth (as others already mentioned), but the MMR system being so broken Killer, especially newbies vs newbies, should easily get 2~4 kills (as in 6~12 hook stage) as this game is and should pro killers. Survivor should be terrified of the killers and do nothing their whole game until they finally learn something. But since MMR and balance issue, there is always some good survivors/killers in the match ready to destroy the opposite team, or killer just bring NOED and raise their MMR incorrectly. I still play this game as there is no game feels like it, but I seriously have no hope in their balancing
It is of course a complicated problem - to make an asymmetrical multiplayer game that can be enjoyed by casual players just dropping in as well as by experienced players running meta builds and communicating. But there *is* a quick and easy solution - simply nerf Pig.
It would probably be a LOT easier for them if they didn't have to consistently add new content, but "games as a service" is just how things are done these days, I guess 🙄 How else are you supposed to milk money from your playerbase?
I mean gameplay wise I feel like idv is doing better since it has an actual competitive mode and the tournament matches(official ones with monetary prizes) can get really exciting. Toxicty still a major issue though.@@uhmokay4316
It's not just the most unbalanced game btw, it's also the most toxic game. It at the very least makes it to the top 10 most toxic games I've ever played.
Predecessor is even worse, believe it or not. I don't get t-bagged and flashlight clicked into oblivion there, but everybody hates their own teammates just as much as they hate the enemy team.
A lot of these problems seem tied to the nature of horror itself. You aren't supposed to know things as a survivor. If a horror movie had people with too much experience or in constant communication, it wouldn't be a good horror movie.
A good friend of mine who is quite good at this game on both sides said before that the developers don't know what they're doing, this game is entirely an accidental success and does not play the way the devs think it plays or intended it to play and thus they have no clue how to actually balance it. What they do know is that all these big name IPs they bring in make them a ton of money. So even though the game is a mess, they're more focused on DLCs than trying to learn from their mistakes and actually make the game fun for everyone.
@@rndThursdayi actually did the same thing, purposely ignoring her and getting her perks as teachables from the shrine of secrets. i'm currently on my all achievement grind and want the two achievements related to her to be the only ones i'll never get
the biggest problem with BHVR's approach to balance is that they remain vague about whether or not certain strategies are acceptable. They're just like "camping 🤷♂" "tunneling 🤷♂" hiding 🤷♂"
Hiding was absolutely intended at the beginning. But in modern times when stealth options and the meta itself have changed? Yeah there's lots of ambiguity now
came back to this video after devs confirmed the killer "Skull Merchant" would be getting massive nerfs just to soft-disable her until they can rework her because how how much everyone hates her
My initial reaction was "wait, I don't remember DbD being *that* bad", but then I remembered that my experience was with more modern versions (what the hell was some of those old design decisions?) and with a "no perks, no items" policy, because they really made the game unfun. It definitely feels like that was what the game was intentionally designed for, at least to me.
I remember I once took in an item that gave everyone extra currency after the game. Rainbow intestines or something? And then the survivors teabagged me at the exit gate. I said something like “Maaan, I bring in the rainbow intestines and still get teabagged?” One of them actually commented on my profile and apologized for teabagging. Probably the only positive experience I ever had playing that game.
There's nothing more satisfying than seeing an ignorant and cocky developer believing their game perfect, and then playing their own game, live, in front of a massive crowd and witnessing for the first time just how badly it was balanced in the form of them getting mercilessly bullied in a public lobby. This is why you don't balance exclusively around data, because mechanics might seem fine in the controlled testing environment where they use skills as they "intended", but out in actual games the devs are just completely unaware of the disgustingly powerful true potential these things can have in a tryhard's toolkit.
One thing that frustrated me about this game isn't how it's balanced, but just how rage inducing it is to play with people. You're playing a horror game, it's supposed to be intense and stressful while also causing dread and fear. And like a real horror villain or serial killer, do you think they'd just drop you off at an area and expect you to stay dead? No, they'd stay with the victim and toy with them or torment them to prevent them from escaping. Apparently, you have to be a gentlemanly serial killer that allows players a chance to escape you? Also just how the survivors are played. You'd think for a horror game like this, the perspective role would be reversed. First person for them creating a more immersive and horrifying experience. Third person for the killers which would allow a wider view for them to make it easier to see survivors, creating an even more tense atmosphere for survivors because just one wrong move could get you spotted. The crazy part is just how content DBD players are, and when I try to bring it up with any player (Like my friends) they just complain about the complaints towards their favorite game even though it deserves its criticism. I'll never understand why people don't want a horror game to be horrifying or stressful 🤦🏻
19:25 Small thing, but this historical joke actually would've made more sense with Harry Truman instead of Oppenheimer. Since Oppenheimer deeply regretted making the nuclear bomb while the president had no regrets over dropping the bomb whatsoever, even calling Oppenheimer a "cry baby".
You missed the most broken part of Legion: being able to make it literally impossible to mend in time before the bleed downed you. You didn't have to chase them or keep hitting them, you could hit them twice with frenzy and just leave. With the right combination of add-ons and perks at the time, you could extend the amount of time it took to mend to be more than the max deep wounds timer so every two hits was a guaranteed down. It's one of the only times there's been a legitimately massive exploit.
the same way we got flashlights fixed by making the dev play against them, its time to force the devs to sit through 20 soloq survivor matches where they get tunnelled out every time so they can realise how boring that is too.
DbD is one of those games that looked like shit when I first saw it, but I figured it must have some redeeming factors behind its janky animations and shitty graphics since so many people liked it. Then everything I hear about it for the next decade from fans and critics alike is overwhelmingly negative, and it is still one of the ugliest, jankiest games I've ever seen. I'm genuinely convinced this game is only popular because of some sort of mass hysteria lmao.
dbd has a lot going for it that keeps it so popular (almost nothing to do with the game itself) 1. licenses for very popular franchises 2. lots of entertaining content creators 3. (probably most importantly) nearly no competitors in the market. games like VHS or Friday the 13th were promising but shut down it has tried improving the jank and visuals over the years, but at a snails pace tbh
@@rndThursday I guess that makes sense. I tried getting into it briefly because I liked Otzdarvas DS2 content so much in the past, but I just didn't get it. Good luck kicking the habit, and good job on the video!
DBD Is obviously so popular cause It's fun to play for a ton of people, also partly because people can play some cool characters from their favorite franchises.
@@rndThursday For the devs and their apparent lack of talent at making a game or even remotely balancing it, it probably was the right decision to just overlay counter upon counter for the previous unbalanced stuff instead of putting in lots of hours into still failing to fix it and instead pour the money into licenses that let them get people to play "as their favourite killer".
@@Starpotion Whether or not that's the case you, as a dev or any other salesman, should not be directing your audience to a rival or different product. It's bad for business and can even lead to bankruptcy because no one will be interested in your product, causing sales to plummet and leaving your company in financial stress.
One thing I’ve always thought was interesting is there are 2 kinds of rank 1 killers. One who abuses broken/op perks and killers and one who masters their craft to not need to rely on those things. There’s also 3 kinds of rank 1 survivors: assholes who abuse perks/items to their fullest, absolute gods of movement and mind games (usually I still see them running exhaustion perks but I think that’s a product of map design), and the immersed Claudette/Nea that got to rank 1 pip by pip hiding, barely touching gens, and letting their last teammate die to grab hatch every game.
holy shit why did that game director allow that to happen. It makes him look extremely incompetent. Any other studio would shoot down the request IMMEDIATELY because of the publicity. Frankly, It is a case of being so far removed from normal gamers that these project leads/studio managers don't even know just how broken their product is.
Oftentimes the issue for me isn’t even the balance of the asymmetrical game I’m playing, it’s that usually one side is way more fun to play than the other which means 50% of the time I’m guaranteed to not have fun just on a base level. In DBD I’d want to play the killer all the time because that sounds more fun to me than playing walking away sneakily simulator, like if ykyk
I think left 4 dead had the right approach. Every match players swap sides and play as both the infected, and survivors. Even if survivors were stronger than infected at high levels, it didn't matter as much because both sides had to play rounds as infected.
If the devs played the game and not "balance" everything by stats the game would be more fun. A klt of perks are useless, a lot of addons for killers (the majority) are useless, maps are too big, and skill based matchmaking in a no competitive game
spitting fax yuri. annoying that some killers have god tier addons that make them overpowered, but then you got trapper addons that make traps not hurt you
The problem there is that you get communities like League of Legends' where players insult devs for nerfing things they hate as abuse of power. E.g. the ping incident where a dev was accused of removing pings because he got spam pinged in a game, or when Pyke got nerfed a month after a dev got absolutely owned by a Pyke player. They were unrelated, but players are gonna make shit up to cope anyway.
@@cattysplat you are delusional if you think that a) single devs have enough power to push biased balance changes by themselves and that b) these balance changes aren't made by entire balance teams based on multivariate analyses (eg winrate, player satisfaction, rank distribution, etc). Either way, you didn't disprove my point which was exactly that because Devs can be personally biased, that's why they tend to balance with math rather than just throwing out opinions. + Even in a perfect world where devs arent biased, players will still accuse them of being biased.
What do you expect him to say? If you don't enjoy DBD, then leave. If you used to have fun and now don't, you're probably burned out. Once frustrations overtake fun, quit. The devs are doing their best to mitigate frustration and make it more fun but not everyone is gonna like it.
@@famulanrevengeance3044that just prove the game is complete garbage lol who in their right mind would play a game which even the own dev tell you to play something else
@@DOGEELLL The developer tells you to play something else if you're getting burned out and frustrated. He is not responsible for your emotions. It's a difficult, competitive game with many factors outside of your control. Deal with it, or leave.
Borderline the worst game I have ever played in my entire life. I bought it as I saw it was ADVERTISED as a casual hide and seek game where you play survivor with NO communication, 100+ hours into the game and I found out from the internet you can make premade groups which completely defeated the 'no communication part' so I was wondering why as killer some survivors were way too coordinated for the lack of communication. You cannot call this a casual game yet have game breaking killers that destroy casual players, and SWF who are destroying low tier killers. Nurse is still a killer that has no counter and is still in the game, in my opinion she should have been spoken about in this video because she is the only killer in the game that is able to ignore every single survivor mechanic that they have to defend themselves, to the point to actually win against her the player of that killer has to be the one making a mistake. And the blatant favourtism with licensed chapters. Chucky is the only killer in the game that has a third person view because they are small, which completely goes against the rules of the game, yet Victor who is practically smaller than him is in first person. You cannot even loop the guy because you cannot see him and has the ability to turn off the red stain. Latest chapters as well (Dracula and Vecna) all licensed have 3 abilities, because the developers are clearly running out of ideas. Dracula is arguably the stronger version of Spirit. Releasing killers in an already bloated game is a recipe for disaster, as even months in, every single player even me included have no idea how to counter them. I don't understand the competitiveness as well, this game doesn't have any unique mechanics to even be competitive, everyone is playing the exact same, what is there to even compete and the rewards is close to nothing, bloodpoints where most of it goes to the most useless items in the game. What are people even in competing for, for a non existent leaderboard? So many killers have the same ability but in a different font, survivor gameplay is non existent. The only people who play this game are the people who have never played a video game before, because this is the most shallow game ever.
When I still played R6 Siege many years ago, they would solely balanced the game based off statistics too (mainly pick rates vs win rates and nothing else) and it would lead to just random nonsensical nerfs that anyone who played the game couldn't understand why. Glad to be vindicated with yet more obvious proof that this is the absolute worst way to balance a game, because I never saw anyone else complaining about this surprisingly
@@razorback9999able I think nonsense decisions come from relying too much on stats, games are too complicated to treat it like a balance sheet where they try to hit magical 50-50 win rates on everything. Stats don't come close to telling the whole story of why things are the way they are. The best way would also be the most time consuming so I understand why they don't do it - playing the game with the community and taking feedback
IMO the main issue with trying to balance through stats is that it ignores making the game actually fun to play. Players don't actually notice or care a lot of the time if something is statistically slightly better than something else but feels similar to use. However, they will notice if you nerf said thing in tangible ways that make it less effective. The goal of balance shouldn't really be to make it as even as flipping a coin, but to be as enjoyable for the players as possible.
@@KittyTheKat441the stats didn't also take into consideration the time allotments the players had. Prolly need to separate players with 30 hrs experience from the newbies. 50 hrs separated from 30 hrs, 100 hrs separated from 50, etc.
@@razorback9999able How about actually listening to the feedback of the community? If your whole community says one perk is bad and ruins the game, why does it take a whole year before its nerfed?
As a casual gamer and an absolute noob I loved the first few weeks of the game where no one had any strategy and it was just a fun, scary game with friends. I stopped playing as soon as a friend of mine started to explain "camping" and different strategies and ranking to me. I am the exact opposite to a competetive player.
You can succeed without being an asshole in DBD if you just put in a little effort and realize that you're not always going to win the match. Yet, good performance will lead you to ranking up regardless. But people don't want to do that. Face camping used to be a guarantee of a kill. I guess some killers were so childish they couldn't handle the survivors having even the smallest victory and putting in effort to hook someone else was too much. And yet it made the game boring as fuck as EVERYONE now sits afk- The killer, the hooked person, the people doing gens and the person trying to rescue the hooked person, literally of them are afk because of this. It's insane how anyone accepted this, including the devs, should've been punished with suspensions. If a soccer team scores a point and then refuses to play, they don't automatically win, they get suspended and lose.
My exact thoughts. Only other time I've played this game aside from when it first launched was when pyramid head got added. I then uninstalled the game after realizing what a sweat fest the game had evolved into😂
I cannot believe you didn't mention the absolute horror everything was with the skull merchant as someone who had played on legion release Her release was abysmal. Great video though ill be seeing you in the entity's realm
The funniest thing about old Legion is that they sucked so hard that even unrelated killers were dragged down by them. In ye olden days, Nurse’s Calling used to reveal survivor auras whenever they performed any healing action, including the “snap out of it” command when facing Doctors. This made a certain amount of thematic sense: to “snap out” of their insanity, survivors had to stop and take a moment to reorient themselves and return to their senses. It makes sense then that Nurse’s Calling would beckon Doctors toward vulnerable survivors trying to heal their fractured psyches. Consequently, Nurse’s Calling was one of the best arrows in the Doctor’s quiver… Until the Legion was released. Shortly after the community got its hands on the Legion, a discovery was made: the mending action wouldn’t reveal a survivor to Nurse’s Calling! The assumption among the wider player base at the time was that this was a bug or an oversight on BHVR’s part, so the community brought this discrepancy to BHVR’s attention. If stitching together a shattered mind activated Nurse’s Calling, then surely stitching up a physical wound should do the same! BHVR heard these quibbles and leapt into action. The following patch, the Doctor was nerfed and his synergy with Nurse’s Calling went away over night. I’m still fucking mad about it.
Tbh nurse calling should have never worked with doctor power to begin with lmao. Perks should never affect directly powers or balance becomes problematix
@@broextraordinary4063 Agree to disagree. Personally, I think designing perks to meaningfully interact with a killer’s unique design adds flavor, depth, and variety to the game. I’ll concede that this is clearly contrary to the direction BHVR wants to take the game in (as recently evidenced by the nerf to STBFL), but I nonetheless believe that their binary approach to perk design has played a massive role in the game’s stagnant killer meta. Call me a contrarian, but I think it’s a good thing when some killers can make better use of a perk than others.
@@Undkor it is right that some killers should gain more value from s perk than others. But perks shouldn't affect the power itself or that becomes a mess. Example: Third seal and Ruin are top tier on twins because they almost always use victor and as such these two perk synergies with what the power causes but not with the power itself. OR Wesker gain more value from starstruck, but that's because he has 40 meters terror radius and it doesn't affect directly his power
About the Legion section---it's not that Legion was powerful. In fact, they were very bad. It's that there was no nuance to Legion's gameplay. The skill ceiling was as high as the floor, and no matter what you as a survivor did in chase, the legion always downed you in a little over one minute. This meant that every chase was slow, but inevitably you'd still die,
@@wickermind6668 Legion could only guarantee one kill, maybe two max, per match because the process took so long. Meanwhile these were the days of hillbilly instasaw where you were dead within a second of him catching up to you It was horribly slow murderer with a spoon shit. You would die eventually but your team would be fine if they weren't brain dead.
@@commiekin - Uses a lil shaft - Built like a twink - Still manages to be able to down half the survivors team before the match ends Legion the Gigachad
This video brought back memories of the last year I spent working on balancing for a Dawn of war mod…what a nightmare experience, not because of there being 30+ races in an rts, no, but because of the devs doing things similarly to what was being done here. I learned the hard way that “everything being broken means nothing is broken” is an excuse from people either being lazy or who don’t understand the problem. Gimmick abilities countered by even more gimmicky abilities that reinforce a cancerous playstyle, all while the player base is holding out hope that if that ONE thing is fixed then the real game underneath it all will finally be worth it
This dev team is the reason I stopped playing. They have made, by far, the most ridiculous and most unintelligent balancing decisions I have ever seen a dev team make. They literally cannot achieve a W. And the number of times I've seen them make the exact same mistake, over and over again, is so mind blowing that I just gave up on them. If chat gpt had been around when this game came out, I would've thought that that is where they get all their code and come up with all their ideas.
Its because of the spreadsheet deving they do, they legit just made a whole revamp to twins, only too have the revert the whole things within hours because it was so bad. They are no redoing the whole thing and the community's response was "Hey how about asking us next time instead of wasting all this time and money on this?
Yeah instead of changing a broken perk or killer, they add an EVEN MORE broken perk or killer to counter the previous problem, making everything FAR WORSE 😭
The funny part is that there's plenty of stuff that wasn't even mentioned here, such as Blight, hex undying, 3 gening and of course chess merchant. And then there's the hilarious fact that despite ALL of this, dbd is the only successful asymmetrical game that has survived long-term.
Personally I think the worst balanced game is brood war, but due to the players in the maps it's actually the greatest balanced game that has ever been created. Literally everything in starcraft is broken if you have the APM to do it all.
My girlfriend plays this, and she says it's unfun when the killer just tries to win. I can't think of a single moment in my life where I'd say comradery should be depended on for a good game.
@@counter8595legit nobody thinks the killer shouldn't want to kill. It just shouldn't be at the major cost of a survivor's ability to play the game. Being tunneled out early on means you're leaving the match with barely anything gained from it (like 6k blood points or something). Being slugged or camped is like being stun locked for 1-4 minutes. You can't even "git gud" in this case cuz how can you improve if you're barely able to interact with the game mechanics.
You don't think good sportsmanship is important for a fair and fun match? Lol. It's so fun when people take a dive in soccer, when referees are partial to one side, when people argue about rule violations that may or may not have happened or when people go for illegal strikes in fighting sports. Every game becomes extremely unfun unless everyone agrees to keep it above the belt. Choose to have fun, don't choose to ruin it for others because you think your own fun is more important.
@@famulanrevengeance3044 It's a video game, dumbo. If there was a button in a game to "take a dive" then it'd be a stupid video game. You want me to slow down if I'm beating you in a race just so you can feel better about yourself?
One thing that I recently heard someone say about the game is that it’s not competitive. When I thought about it, it’s true. There is no “winner” really. If you look at each match as just an opportunity to gain XP and to have fun playing. Once I started playing like that it became way more satisfying and less intense.
Worst game i've ever played in my life. Recieved racism and death threats for using post nerf legion and old clown and never went back. the streamers i played against at old rank 1 were some of the most vile people i've ever interacted with. 4 years clean of this garbage
Good thing bro the people that play this game and the game itself is garbage I might put it in my list of the worst overrated game of all time its that bad along with fortnite league ect
Spirit wasn't even a bad thing, she was just what survivor players deserved: something that is hard to play against and their toys couldn't counter her.
Not only the most unbalanced game, but also with one of if not THE most toxic gaming communities out there. *BUT WAIT! There's more!* DbD also has some of the most virulent cases of "Stockholm Syndrome" out of every other game out there. A lot us have tried quitting several times by now, and live in a perpetual state of raging at the very thought or mention of DbD... But because of the unique sort of addiction that this game can inflict on you? We still keep coming back to *SUFFER* it, time and time again. DbD, in essence, is the EPITOME of the meme phrase: "Not even once". Seriously, if you've never played this game? Don't do it. *Avoid it like the plague, if you know what's good for you.*
Dead by Daylight's toxicity really is magnificent. Never in any other game I've played (No, I haven't played League) have I encountered such excessive vitriol. And I played Overwatch competitive.
The only crime worse than how unbalanced this game looks, is how boring it looks. Id rather smash my toes with a log than play "Run in circles and repair generators" Simulator.
Ive never played dbd amd dont intend to (especially after watching this lmao) but seeing the community manager die inside when director said to play a different game is one of the funniest things ive ever seen lmao
I do think a big problem feels as a killer is how long it takes for Survivor stuff to get nerfed compared to survivors use of abusing it, whereas killer feels like it gets nerfed way quicker
There is absolutely a bias, presumably because the game wants a 4:1 ratio, meaning Survivors being happy with the role is more valuable to the devs that Killers' enjoyment.
The dev can solve DBD's issue's and bugs by adding new Feng skins, buffing Blight, nerfing Pig, and then the final recipe is adding a new DLC that comes with more issue's and bugs then the cycle repeats
This might be a stupid question but why does the game look so ugly in most of the clips. Like i know that the game was made in 2016 but it has to look better than this. Maybe im wrong and its just a valorant/csgo scenario where playing on the lowest graphics gives an advantage?
To this day I don't know why Bhvr refuses to add some kind of dedicated ranked competitive mode. It really sucks loading into a match with a fun but suboptimal setup, realizing that the other side has brought their sweatiest loadout possible and the next 10-15 minutes are going to be absolutely miserable for you because you decided NOT to tryhard. I would much rather have a segmented playerbase with longer queue times across the board if it meant that I could predict what kind of experience I was going to have beforehand
it’s because this game is mind numbingly boring as a competitive game. every single match it is the nurse vs 4 blendettes with genrush builds. the mode wouldn’t be competitive with the standard mode as everyone would get bored. the small number of people who enjoy that already play it via custom games.
Evolution of the meta is the most fascinating yet horrible thing to witness in multiplayer game development. I've seen your tf2 vids before so I know you have much familiarity with that 😂😂
I'm a trapper main, who played during the meta of destroying hooks, with Hangman's Trick. Whenever a survivor sabotages a hook just before I hook their friend, I stare at them for 10 seconds, and then hook the survivor when it automatically repairs. I know I soiled a few pants in my day.
More like Alan Sleep
Kekekek gotteeeeem
so real
Alan wake chapter was hot garbage 😭
Ligma balls.
Alan wake me up inside
I love that the dev approved solution for if you are upset with ballance is to just play civilization 6 a famously perfectly balanced game
Dbd is too perfectly balanced for even you to touch.
a perfectly balanced comment. im in awe
Omg, Spiff!
This game is to balance. You wont be able to break it 😂😂😂
@@rndThursday A perfectly balanced Reply!
The dev being publicly put on display with the flash light gauntlet was painfully funny
And it appeared like he took it with grace.
@@Depressed_Spider yeah, kinda wish he kept that humility, that "go play a diffrent game" thing was nasty
The real painful part is the implication, that the dev wasn't even playing the game or even aware of what was actually happening to his players. What were the the play testers doing? Was anyone on his team playing the game at all and aware of these issue? How was he so oblivious to such a common issue, that he only changed things once he was personally put on the spot? Watching the video i just get the idea that the developers have no real clue what they are doing
@@bigdumbfatcat2869 Maybe the playtesters were playing the game "normally" hence don't see the degenerate shit being pulled off in real play, which reminds me of a saying in Magic the Gathering: "Just as Richard Garfield (the creator of MtG) intended". And similarly had a famous story where Richard was playing with a "fan" who was gushing about the game while infinitely locking Richard out from playing the game.
Reminds me of when the Anarchy Reigns Devs got whooped publicly on their unbalanced game
Link: th-cam.com/video/Q2KScq3DsvY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Laam1z-1iETdGksQ
>be me
>19
>work 16 hour shift
>get home
>"ill try to unwind after a terrible day"
>bootup dbd as Michael Myers
>proceed to get teamed up on by 4 very coordinated bills
>"well it happens, onto the next ma-"
>*you have received a message*
>*is a meme of the dark souls knight telling me to "git gud"
I havent played it since lol. Loved the gameplay but its taxing
lmaooo. id rather work in the mines than trying to play DBD for any length of time. fun for a bit, but wears you down
@bigmetalfan1 Cringe and go back to working, average discord mod.
@MisterSomeone12271 peace and love brotha, peace and love
@@Amis5474touch grass 🙏
@@Amis5474 Are you okay?
What this game DOES have in common with league is a playerbase who constantly bitches about and bashes the game claiming their undying hatred for it, but still play it every single day for a decade.
1000 hour league player 🤝 1000 hour dbd player
this game is trash
I've been an onlooker and peanut gallery of the DBD community because I'm so fascinated with their revolving circus of angst, disappointment, boredom, and very rare moments of genuine fun and happiness that seem to fuel the whole thing, combined with the atrocious behavior of the development company in an almost poetically beautiful real life representation of The Entity feeding on emotions. It's fascinating, and entertaining. Kinda like how hating playing No Man's Sky was better than playing NMS when it first released, but stretched out over 8 years with no improvement whatsoever instead of the mud to magnificence story of NMS.
This is so real wtf ahhhahhahahahaa
I quit playing Dead by Daylight due to having the most toxic community and a greedy inept developer. Without licensed content this game would be dead.
Everyone who has 1000 hours in a AAA game hates the game they play, but to feed the addiction they must keep playing.
This is how I am with overwatch and siege.
One comment I've seen that perfectly captures DBD's history is this
"The game isnt survivor sided or killer sided, it's asshole sided"
omg this is so frickin true
U nailed it.
The people that play DBD are furries and just weird people. No one with good taste in games would play this game.
That's so on point it's not even funny
Holy shit I'll steal this. It's so true!! I am personally a casual gamer (tm) so I'm rarely the asshole (I think) but man o man have other people in that game done shit to me. After playing since 2017 I grew thick skin. Not much gets me to have a real reaction any more - but sometimes some people still manage.
Man that's not even the woooooorst part. So the game had a rage quit penalty where if you disconnected before the game was over, you can't rejoin a new game for a few minuets. This penalty would increase drastically the more often you did it, until you couldn't play for days or even weeks. Dead by Daylight is fairly easy to hack, so hackers could force you to disconnect while telling the server you've disconnected 10 times in a row and ban you for a month.
The issue was so bad that the devs just turned off the rage quit penalty because they couldn't figure out how to fix it. The problem is that the rage quit penalty exists because the scoring system in this game is based off interactions with other players. If every survivor quits, that's not 4 kills for the killer. That's still the killer failing to kill anyone as if they just sucked at the game. Which meant that both sides would quit the second they run into any minor inconvenience and they'd only stay on for games they're crushing, which mostly led to veterans fishing for games where they get matched with newbies and then destroying them.
The matchmaking in this game is so bad that the last time i saw them have a free weekend, all of the new players didn't get matched with other new players despite there being an obvious massive jump in new player numbers. They got matched with veterans and the steam community board was flooded with threads and comments going "I'm new and just trying this for the free weekend, why am I being matched with rank 1 meta-players? I haven't even played this for an hour yet".
343 do the same thing, not only have hackers kicked you off for ages but 343's own framework is crap and will just randomly drop you, forcing you into a 20 minute wait. Useless company and always has been.
@@CrashHeadroomImaginary problems. Infinite has it's issues, but connectivity has NEVER been one I've witnessed, let alone and people I play with. 🖤
Sometimes when I play Killer, I feel like I actively have to hold myself back or else the game won't be fair. Other matches I literally don't get to do anything as three gens pop at the same time during the first chase. Also the fact that the same killer has been the best in the entire game for all eight years of its existence is telling of how poorly balanced the game can be
we need a group therapy session cuz same
Same. And on the same killer too. I try to hook everyone at least once before deciding how sweaty I’m going to play. But if I double hook everyone at 5 or 4 gens I normally just let them all go. Matches like that aren’t really fun for anyone. And then the next match I’ll get curb stomped by a bunch of no migher bunny fengs with sniper rifle flashlights and head on. The matchmaking bands must be incredibly wide.
@@danirodriguez3682 it bothers me that tunneling is just the best strategy in a lot of situations, just knock this survivor out and gens (on paper) go 75% speed, especially if you can manage to hook them next to an already partially repaired generator, and then just play within a certain area of the hook until theyre dead, only giving chase if you know for a fact this survivor will be downed. Shit, you dont even have to hook camp them all the way just to second stage and then remember whos on their last. Like I have yet to see a proper counter to just "fuck this guy in particular". You have to bodyblock and even then, its not hard to get around a bodyblock or simply just take the free hit and continue tunneling. Shame to admit I did this when I was new, nowadays i dont really bother doing anything boring i just chase survivors and kick a gen if its convenient. I just play to win chases because the chase is the fun part of the game, and i dont care about my rank? Its literally more fun in lower ranks where people are running weird builds, gens are done at a reasonable rate, ect.
billy aura build still the most fun thing on the planet, crossmap chainsaw hits are the best thing to do its so fun, esp with the perk that lets you see survivors at the start of the game, they dont realize im coming right for them off the rip
IMO, it's fine for the same killer to be top tier for multiple years as long as that killer is fun to play as/play against/watch.
Dunno if the Nurse meets that description, mind.
@@athath2010 yeah exactly. I'm fine with Spirit, Blight and Huntress being so high-tier because they're interesting to fight and actually interact with the map geometry
That one segment where the dev is being put to the test against randos and gets beaten pretty bad, humiliated and then realizing that it's not fun is a worrying sign that devs might be laying out ideas, realizing it and do not test how it feels in practice.
This is every multiplayer game that is not balanced closely or has pros that help, while I am indiferent about tft (riot games) , mortdog the main guy working on it is challenger (highest rank) and while he isn't the top 50 players from what I remember he has a very good idea of the game
Valve should do a think where for like a year they hand CS2 over to a brand new cabal of devs who preferably don't play the game, or if they do they are not be allowed to have over 10K ELO. Just to see what kind of bullshit happens and break the brains of the pro scene.
Train bots using Donk demos. Fuck it.
Often how devs *expect* players to play the game isn't how they actually *do* play the game - or something that is a minor issue if it happens infrequently becomes a major issue to any player unlucky enough to experience it many times in a row. Devs are always flying partly blind, no matter how dedicated they are. Even devs who play their game constantly can run into issues because they get USED to the problems and they start to feel 'comfortable' with them. Often playing a game too much numbs you to the major pain points, while exacerbating minor annoyances that might not even bother most players. It's important to regularly play competing games in the genre for this reason, to learn what the standards actually are and remember there are better ways to do things. You also should watch new players, expert players, and a lot of other players streaming to see how they experience the game, read community feedback, etc...
All that is completely doable. If you don't have a dayjob. But you also have to make the game. And you should have some hours for things besides the game too.
It's a constant resource management puzzle. Very easy to miss things.
what does the phrase "best weapons" mean if a bunch people don't have them. you're meant to feel bad if you didn't buy the best things.
What no QA testers does to a mf
Dead By Daylights greatest weakness is that trying to win the game makes the game less fun for everyone inherently.
Any strategy you use to win is seen as a negative to the point basic strategies are seen as being a morally bad person. Balance in PVP games is so exceedingly important cause without it, no one is actually having any fun.
Yeah pretty much. The game is very fun when played at a low level, but even reaching moderate skill is painful. I played it years ago, reached red rank killer, and quit. Then I came back, and intentionally let everyone go after 2 hooking from then on. Game is fun now. It's a fundamentally broken game that is still very fun, but only if you play it incorrectly.
@@Garresh1 "The game is fun, but only if you play it incorrectly."
Such a perfect summary of DbD. Me and my friends have more fun just goofing around in this game than really playing how it's intended.
"Go play another game" is such wonderful advice from the dev. I think I will continue to do so, and not bother giving this game a chance.
most sensible thing a dbd dev has said
Reminds me of Indie Survival game "The Isle", where the lead dev kept telling people who complained about the game being shoddy to "Just make their own game".
Fast forward to now and "Isle clone" has become a niche subgenre that pumps out way more games than the small consumer base can reasonably support
Honestly don't bother. The game has been going in an "objectively" good direction now. It's way more balanced than it used to be.
The community still constantly complains and is quite toxic (not everyone but even if they are a minority they're heard all right).
To me at least it's become incredibly boring. There's really only one viable playstyle, for both roles.
I played over 200 hours of DBD and when I finally moved to something else I never looked back at it.
"For a week". I think he's just trying to encourage people to spend some time outside of obsessing over this one thing- which actually is good advice.
The funniest thing about this developer match in Korea is that after that Hag difficulty tag was changed from "easy" to "hard"
Intermediate to hard but yeah.
You know what's funny? One day, someone's gonna reply with a nerd emoji to this reply here.
@@linkibear8644 👰🏿♂️
@@linkibear8644😎
@@linkibear8644🤓
🤓 @@linkibear8644
Everything I hear about this game makes it sound like the most miserable game to ever become popular
Yeah , not true. Git gud.
@@SkyGrid11SkyGridXG1lmao, thanks for being the example
@@mrziiz6893 ok
@@mrziiz6893 ok
It's actually really fun but when you win a few games as killer and get put up again a 4 man swf with all meta perks it loses its charm. You have to sweat and play in a way that will get you toxic messages from crybabies who think the killer is only the to mess with and bully until they do all gens and leave.
i feel like having the response to an oppressive survivor meta be releasing a new killer to counter it is possibly one of the worst decisions you could make to balance your game
exactly this. all it does is force players to pick a specific killer or insta-lose every match, which just saps the fun out of the game. wanna main X? too bad! the only way to win games is to play our brand new killer!
**Cough loudly** Money.
Nurse is free killer, so they could maybe only sell skins, but still that makes other killers sell less skins if nobody plays them. So lose/lose situation for devs and players.@@ultimaxkom8728
Sounds like identity V
@@ultimaxkom8728The nurse was a free DLC
There is a term called "dogfooding" where the person who makes a product/service, actually consumes the product/service. (The root being a dogfood producer being so confident in the quality of their food they would be willing to eat it)
Dogfooding is important in game development because without it you end up with situations like that twitch stream at 17:30. The dev clearly spends so much time looking at forests that he doesn't know what a tree is.
I mean, playing the game is important cause you can then see how you can improve your balance decisions on the game in the future until you decide to stop it
DBD devs are the most out of touch devs out there. They proudly admit that they dont play their own game and have no idea about anything. They just use some flawed statistic for their work.
@@someaccount5200
That would be a good point, but that only happens if the devs can maintain impartiality and objectivity when researching potential balance problems or coming up with improvements; those who are not just play testing but consuming their own product tend to fall victim to the same biases that consumers do.
@@Darkstar198 I'd even argue that devs generally have stronger but more hidden biases than players at large. That's why outside feedback is important.
@@robertnomok9750the final decision is up to lead designers and they almost never play their own games. Even if the game studios had a big round table weekly meeting where they consulted all their employees on game balance you would still have a majority of people have no idea what they’re talking about. Imagine working on a game, staring at character models, playtesting the content, coding, receiving community feedback (death threats) AND going home and launching the game that you work on. If someone does it, it’s like 2-3 people in the company who do not represent the playerbase with its varying playstyles and skill levels. What you’re left with is relying on community feedback, but look at any community of a pvp game, these people couldn’t give a crap about “balance”, they want their main to be strong and screw everybody else who’s trying to enjoy the game. Especially in DbD where everyone wants their own. Not only are skill levels juxtaposed but the roles aren’t your Overwatch variety of “character archetype” in a team of 5-6, it’s one strong character chosen from a roster with drastic differences in power levels and a team of four weak characters who function the same. Imagine asking someone who mains an F-tier killer in mid-ranks for their opinions on balancing the whole killer roster in *all* ranks. It’s not possible to keep the no-lifers who spend hours on the game daily happy while not scaring the beginner players with the likes of Pig who still absolutely stomps noobs while getting nerfed every few months.
The devs are very much average in how they treat the game balance compared to other companies, the game itself just has an extremely peculiar design and a playerbase that is never happy and doesn’t actually know what it wants.
it's weird watching a random video in the morning in your boxers and you pop up in it.
Player: "Hey im not really having a good time playing your game because its so unbalanced"
Dev "Well fuckin play something else, or have you concidered taking a nap?"
i wonder what the person who wrote that is doing now
@@rndThursday hopefully playing Civ VI
@rndThursday youd think playing something else
@@yannickgrignon2473 Civ 6 was so shit that they had to give away free copies of it in order to get a player base.
@@SyndicateOperative as a civ noob ive always liked it, whats so wrong with it?
Basically, the devs don't know how to play their own game and never learned to. So every time they notice something is broken, they nerf Pig.
Genji’s rival
Nerf pig. She can move more than 1 MPH. Nerf pig again.
@@Echoe-14 Irelia's rival
We can call that The pig syndrome
Chamber 🤝 Pig 🤝 Irelia🤝Genji
As a game dev and enjoyer of DBD it's interesting to see it all laid out like that! So many of these issues (apart from the WTF were they thinking ones) seem to stem from the devs not recognizing that what might be good for low MMR would be bad for high MMR or vice versa. From what I've seen on other channels they seem to also fall into the trap of big-picture spreadsheet-based tweaks without considering the full implications for why things are the way they are.
TL;DR It seems pretty clear that Behavior has a long history of neglecting player psychology when making changes.
Good vid!
>developer only realizes his game is fucked when he is coaxed into playing a match on a korean tv program
>he hadn't played his game and didn't know the state it was in
What the fuck man
he basically said "skill issue" before getting *MASSIVELY* _skill issue'd_
The history of the game, if you look at it, showed that from the beginning, the game was designed with bad/mediocre at best survivors in mind. The devs likely aren't very good players, and are likely mostly playing survivors. All the dumpsterfire balancing decisions from nerfing weak Freddys and pigs to never nerfing Nurses to having like, 20 different completely broken perks/add-ons for survivors vs... dunno, 2-3? broken stuff for killers only makes sense if the game is balanced based on their (bad to mediocre) survivor gameplay and taking everything else off statistics with zero weighing done. And it's shocking how much sense the balancing makes if seen from that angle.
Not even just some dev - literally the director of the game.
You know a game and its community is bad when the playerbase has to make up their own rules and get mad when said made up rules aren’t followed.
Call Of Duty
Small correction: rule #1 exists in rocket league and it's a by definition perfectly balanced game
to an extent every game has some form of silent social rules, like griefing your team by blocking things, targetting 1 person or just being toxic is BM regardless of which side you're on.
But with that said, yeah DBDs balancing issues are really bad lmao
Magic the Gathering's Commander format:
@@crack4184cod community has absolutely no rules except in sniper 1v1s
The single biggest reason for DBD's horrible balancing issue that has persists even 8 years since its release is that the Devs (BHVR) had and ALWAYS will only balance their game based on statistics instead of actual player's experience.
Just look, the strongest killer of the game, and has been so since the game's release. Is the same one that has the lowest kill rate out of all killers.
@@Nobody77246 The thing about those stats that the devs don't realize is that the reason the strongest killer (Nurse) has such a low kill rate is because she is also one of the least played killers. So the kill rate they look at isn't even an actual kill rate, it's just a collection of kills - if Nurse was played more often then the 'kill rate' would be even higher
Making a dev go through the suffering they themselves create and in such a public display was one of the most satisfying stories I've ever heard of. I'll even take it one step further and call it a fantasy come true. One step further you say? If they were to make a reality show out of that concept alone I would watch it.
I would love a show where the devs of games that have horribly unhappy communities are forced to see the problems in their game live.
next step is make the executives who order microtransactions and lootboxes to be added into games be forced to obtain all the random items without spending money
Call it "The Grind" and challenge devs of games with a lot of backlash to reach one of the highest MMR tiers. If they win it's a big sponsorship bundle but if they give up they have to live with the shame of it being televised.
when i read the title i knew it was dead by daylight
every dbd player be like: "true"
@@rndThursday true
true
True
no you did not, npc comment
I love the fact you used “pigstep” on the section about the pig
When dev dude picked Hag i thought it was some kind of weird flex at the time because Hag was bottom tier, but then i realized that he's just a complete noob who had no idea what he's doing.
it was his favorite actually! idk if it still is, just remember him saying that at the time
2024 and you still don't know his name?
@@siei3i37What does the year have to do with knowing an obscure developer’s name?
@@siei3i37 who needs to
@@angel_of_rust I mean if he still plays DBD then it's kinda crazy that he still doesn't know his name
when I saw the title, I dismissed the video as some hyperbolic-clickbait nonsense. I later click on it out of curiosity, and oh my god dude, I am sorry for ever doubting you
LOL
It takes a lot of class to admit something like that publicly. Good on you.
I was in the same boat. Wth
i clicked and watched fully and just prooved myself it was a waste of time
Been playing dbd since 2017. Every part of this video rattled me, it's like going to a senior center with Vietnam war footage
the biggest problem with this game is the devs dont seem to understand you cant make a 1 v 4 game where one player from the four person team can effectivly counter the solo killer
i had a much less important comment before don't worry about it
5:47 was such an outplay what the hell
pretend to go put away your plate because the other player's watching your stream and use a controller to make sure you can grab them even while you're not at your keyboard
actual god of deception
bros skull can hardly contain that massive brain
@@rndThursday the webcam had a filter on he'd look like megamind if there wasn't a filter
he actually didn't get up at all, he levitated away from the desk
He used his massive IQ to edit his stream in real-time and make it look like he left
That shit cracked me up, what an intellectual chad
My friend gifted me this game. He had a thousand hours on it. I played it for a bit but had to stop because my PC wasn't that good at the time. The following week he told me he quit because the game was bad.
So it took a thousand hours before he realized the was bad? Sounds like he still got alot of value out of his money. $20 for a thpusand hours of playtime is an amazing deal
god, reminds me of when I used to play; kept getting temp bans because i kept getting disconnected from games for NO reason
@@HerEvilTwinyou do realize the game changed over time right? The video itself shows how much its change,d so the guy just grew outta it likely 🤔
Bro had to pass the game to someone else like a curse
@@HerEvilTwin The game doesn't ever really stay the same. You might've really enjoyed the game at one point, but due to all the massive changes that has occured since then, you lost interest in it.
the game director telling you to play another game in response to player complaints is so insulting and absurd. Clearly does not give a shit about the game.
"Players will optimize the fun out of a game if given the opportunity" - Soren Johnson
it should be noted that Soren Johnson was the lead designer of Civilization IV
"It's a good game, just play that!"
Yup its important to make your game have reliable vector of enjoyment that are parallel to those of success.
I firmly stand behind the fact that players ruin games just as much as devs do. People have been meta slaving and tryharding since before streamers and the big TH-cam boom simply because people will do anything to win because their fun isn't drawn from the games they play, its from how well they do at said games. It's a people problem, from the devs lack of legwork to the abrasive playerbases who make playing these games insufferable. People need to teach their kids not everything is about winning and the experience of doing what you like is more important than perceiving yourself as being really good at doing what you like.
@@DougdimmadinglelingI don’t really mind people who try their best to win. That’s on the devs to make the meta non-toxic. When I blame the players is things like bully squads who aren’t trying to win and just waste as much time as possible
@@Dougdimmadingleling From a young age it's drilled into your head that you get rewarded for doing the correct thing / giving the right answer, and punished if you do anything but that. I think some people may be very susceptible to this and don't have the space in their mind to consider why they have to do this or any other option. They just have to exploit, cheat, metaslave and ruin any semblance of fun or variety. Now combine this with basically 0 consequences in online gaming and most importantly; unable to choose who you play with (If you act like a dick, nobody is gonna play with you anymore in real life) and you end up with a small % of toxic players ruining it for the rest.
When I entered this video, I thought you were talking about League of Legends or something like that, and I thought to myself "I wish they knew Identity V, that's unbalanced" and the more I got into the video the more I realized that Identity V was not as unbalanced as I thought it was.
yeah same i want idv players who constantly whine about the game being unbalanced to watch this video (although gamekeeper and priestess do desperately need adjustments)
Ahahah yeah idv players don't know what unbalanced looks like
Idv has survivor roles that specialize in actually rescuing survivors. Also tunneling and camping is effectively incentiviced as it is an effective strategy as well but not as effective as it was in DBD. At its core idv is more balanced than DBD ever will. And that's saying something of a gacha Chinese game.
Legit, i could never get into dead by daylight because of this issue and played idv instead. Idv has its issues with balancing but it is in a much better state currently then DBD…
the fact that being camped is something you have to just expect and accept in idv sucks tho. players keep saying it’s a strategy, or that it’s required to win as killer, but that fact doesn’t make the experience more fun. it’s definitely one of the biggest reasons i lost interest in idv. both as a killer and survivor
I wholeheartedly agree, DBD Bad
based department is calling
I like that footage of a Spirit bargaining with survivors to drop their flashlight to be let go. That's pretty funny.
i like to domesticate the survivors i play against
@@rndThursday 01. is, that....the eve online franchise's (00:00)?
02.
'-of The Worst Balanced Game Ever'.
(Shortly, for now): Feh. those 'fellows', Majority on the Destinyverses franchise's (More so about their own PvP/player-only multiplayer. one of the root causes of bungo's current IP's state) section is relatively Fitting for that, yes (to This Day still. meanwhile, a bit sad for the Destiny 1 game's then. still having a forever, update-less, Broken Crucible section of modes ever since bungo and us all moved forward into the 'sequel''s lifespan). for a Big Example.
(Gameplay-wise speaking).
@@CaptainPilipinasAre you okay?
@@blazaybla22 Keep in mind his comment was edited.
So this unreadable brain diarrhea is what resulted from them trying to fix what was presumably worse before. I shudder to imagine.
@@CaptainPilipinaswhat the fuck?
I really appreciate how accessible this video is to someone only passingly familiar with Dead By Daylight.
You could have told this exact same story with the exact same information but made it impenetrable. Great job.
i've literally only heard of the game's title before (never saw any gameplay) and yet it was explained so nicely so that I knew what was going on.
Same here. Never seen footage before now, but am now morbidly fascinated by this game.
I had a period of about a year, when I really liked Dead by Daylight. I played it a lot, as a dwight with generator perks, or as a trapper with the trapper perks, also hooking in the basement, trapping vaults and pallets, letting people run into them. I also played legion but I didn't like it.
I watched a bunch of Otzdarva videos, and played it a lot.
I didn't even know this video was about DBD, but it rings oddly true. I would play nice, would never hook the same person twice unless needed, wouldn't hook camp, deliberately leaving the hook. I would activate "annoying playstyle" when they played flashlights, speed medkits and genrush toolkits, trying to win.
This video rings oddly true. You want to have fun until the others don't, and then it's just bad for everyone.
I loved the game but I stopped playing it for these reasons, even if I didn't directly realize them.
I like this video, it's a good video.
"Hey, I used to love playing killer but now they're not good. Can you make killer more fun to play?"
"Well have you tried playing survivor?"
I can't even think of a funny quip or anything it's just so stupid. Like, I shouldn't have to resort to that? Because it should be fun on both sides?
That was such an out of touch comment. Don't think that guy has played a game of DBD in the last 5 years
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he probably misinterpreted the message, thinking they were saying that killer was getting kinda stale after playing it for so long and not that killer was heavily underpowered
@@DoctorTheo No, he didn't misinterpret, he's done that crap multiple times.
The game devs are pretty well known for being either actual morons or a-holes. One dev even snapped at people for them daring to keep asking for a specific accessibility option, only for the rest of the devs reveal said option after the backlash grew massive.
Replies like that are quite irksome. There were replies to questions in a Pokémon magazine I had once. One question asked simply "After catching all of the Pokémon and beating the Elite Four, is there anything else?", and the response they got was "What do you expect? A slap-up meal for two?" Like, what was the writer's problem? These were kids they were responding to
@@AdiG1to be fair though, that is like the whole point of the games. Like you can't even complete the Pokédex by yourself with just one game
Dead by daylight, if you think the devs are bad, the player base is more so, simply put, "if you are not able to understand exactly everything under 1 second, fuck off"
The community is really what puts me off of this game. Even League doesn't have a community that hates the game so much they actively try to ruin it for others. From in-game to the Subreddit to the forums, everyone who plays this game sucks all around.
@@ThorDude it helps that League actually has a decent structure.
"assymmetrical" multiplayer game just sounds like a funamentally bad idea
My fav thing was asking how to get into comp lobby's for practicing, and was told you need at least 1000 hours before you can even join. Thats just there rule. they wont even let you PRACTICE with them until you have 1000 hours. Funniest thing is, ive actually got in one because they said "we will show you how high the skill ceiling is" only for them to get 3ked by a killer who had 400 hours, while the had 7000 collectively. The only reason i didn't 4k was because of the hatch. They are legit delusional. None of them were particularly good might a add, not even as a dig, ive legit had more trouble in solo que, it was such a weird experience i just noped out of that scene right away.
@heavensgate2245 the L4D2 versus community isn't as bad, of course you will get called an idiot and a dumbass for simple mistakes sure but that is roughly tame.
@@ZombieKitty321LMAOO 😂
What a bunch of clowns 😂 nobody take this trash game seriously except idiot like them and they got destroy by a new player lol
The one thing that keeps getting repeated is "and there's nothing you can do." Legion's old stabbing mechanics, old Ruin, insta-blind flashlights, infinite loops, insta-heals, etc. They keep adding things that have no counter play that just give players game breaking "I win" buttons. The only difference is that when killers get them they get nerfed/reworked immediately, but survivors get to keep there's for up to years at a time...
funny u say that cuz thats what they almost did with the twins rework lol (they decided to cancel it after the community response)
To be fair, there are a few killer things that stayed in the game long past their welcome.
Blight and Nurse were absolutely cracked for far too long to be healthy, Spirit's original design was horrifically uninteractive, old Undying, Shape's tombstone+piece (while that could be argued as a license decision, they _buffed_ tombstone, and tombstone piece still exists along side it for no real reason).
That's not to say that there wasn't problems with survivor mechanics, too. Both had-and in some cases _have_ , mechanics that aren't designed well. This isn't even a "one side is favored more" thing, this is a "there is a non-zero chance that the current devs can't understand the code of the game enough to make meaningful changes" problem.
And that's concerning for the overall health of both the game and the company.
Rant over, thanks for reading; if we met I'd offer you a firm handshake-no hard feelings, your opinion is valid.
The things to keep in mind is that the "I Win Button" largely comes in the form of perks, and how you get perks? You buy characters and grind to unlock perks. The game is technically p2W BUT you still have to grind like it's a mobile game. DbD is a unique abomination in gaming.
@@FreeArtFreestheWorldNot to mention DbD has the monetization of a F2P game despite being pay to play
@Clown_the_Clown Don't mean to be that guy but it's despite
Dead by Daylight is one of those games for me, where I've never played a solitary minute of it but I'm absolutely fascinated by everything surrounding it. It's the most unapologetic salt producing entity I've ever learned of in my life and I hope it goes on for a hundred years making people cry and scream.
Yep I love to watch streams but the gameplay is just simply not fun. You either stomp or get stomped.
don't play it
I've heard people speak ill of it a few times over the years but holy crap I didn't know it was THIS bad. I actually thought it might have been a decent game that just had salty players, after watching this video I realize how wrong I was. And how fortunate I am that I never decided to try the game. You're right in that it's fascinating how much salt the game produces yet people still play it anyway.
@@JohnDoeWasntTaken You should look up its tournament history lmao
Basically Tf2, OW, Paladins
I'm glad I took the time to watch. It's far from being as hyperbolic, clickbait-y and "complain-y" as I thought it'd be. I used to be very invested in DBD, like I felt personally insulted when a killer/group of survs would play the bullying game one way or the other. Nowadays I'm much more chill about it, and it's only fun times even when I'm being bullied.... BUT that doesn't mean the problem came from me, or that the game was perfect, it just meant that the solution to me not having fun *could* come from me and that's a massive difference. I'm a game dev myself, and sometimes I'm a little taken aback by certain choices. I find my fun, sure - but it doesn't mean that I don't find some aspects of the game completely boring in itself. My personal worst period was when every killer was running Ruin + Noed and survs had all the same perks combos. The games were all the same, the plot twists were not twists anymore... Really the best that happened was when I started randomising my perks and getting into games where other players would randomise theirs, or at least shake things up. Does that mean that you sometimes have a HORRIBLE build? Yeah of course, and it's just funny. But sometimes you stumble upon little gold nuggets of builds that are completely and unexpectedly fun.
video essay andy
the only essays i can make (im illiterate)
CRAZY PSYCHO FORCES innocent (and very handsome) audience into watching his INSANE RAMBLINGS (true story) (very scary)
forsenLevel yourself
I am max leveling
@@rndThursday The pyro pipeline
As someone who used to play this game all the time, wayyyy back when, I feel like a big problem with it was how the gameplay for the survivors became more action-orientated rather than sneaky. When a chase occurs, from a survivors perspective, it should be the most terrifying and hard part, with careful use of windows and the pallets to give you enough time to escape. The majority of the game should be spent working on gens and trying to *hide* from the killer, I mean, look at all the walls perfectly sized to crouch behind and closets to hide in.
Instead, through perks and flashlights, looping around pallets, it became better, if not *easier* to lead the killer on wild goose chases. Spending many minutes at a time wasting the killers time knowing there's not a lot they can do as long as there is a pallet nearby or if you have the right perks.
One of the biggest reasons I stopped playing this game (aside from microtransaction hell) was the response so many people gave to killers struggling with chases. If you found yourself unable to catch a survivor, constantly chasing but never able to hit them, ask a member of the community what to do, and most of the time the response would be "Just give up on the chase."
This baffled me, because then what? Find someone else who leads you on a chase too and just, never catch them? I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to have a good chase, but the idea that you could be the killer running after a victim, and the victim is the one in control the *entire* time completely beats the point, and theme, of being a killer in the game.
Sorry for the long post, But I truly believe if they had just focused more on a stealth focus for the survivors rather than action, it would be a lot more balanced and fitting.
It's why the game basically devolved into smurfing to pubstomp newbies who then quit the game. Ultimately destroying the long term playerbase.
The problem is that a stealth focus gameplay would still be tedious than what we currently have, just in a different way
You get survivors who can get hooked a total of 3 times before they die, on huge maps - you'd still likely lose as a killer, but with zero player interactivity in that regard. I think other asym games tried to remedy this, like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but then those games also suffered from the playerbase complaining about players being too stealthy which led to them speeding the game up a little.
@@cattysplatthe game has a consistent player base, it’s not dying or dead, and I haven’t seen a game where there are as much players with thousands of hours.
Look man I’m sorry but this sounds like a massive skill issue, if someone is really lopping your ass to the point where it is no longer beneficial to down them, then finding some else is a better idea because you might find them on a part of the map with easier loops and pallets or even complete dead zones. If you still cannot down them then play a different killer, there are more than 30 each with unique abilities that excel at different tactics. Want an early hit mixed with hit and run stealth? play Wraith. you want fast paced high adrenaline gameplay with great movement? Pick up Blight. you want strong anti loop with zoning ? Then pick up the pyramid head.
Also on the matter of stealth, it become increasingly boring the more stealthy the player base gets, we can see that now with the perk “diversion” where it basically negates all aura reading perks and suppresses your scratch marks afterwards. There are several stealth perks that can work well but is that really what you want? To never interact with the killer and have them looking around for you until they spot you in a corner halfway through the game? With so many killers and so many abilities you would choose to just do gens and not interact with the most fun part of the game.
The problem here isn't stealth (as others already mentioned), but the MMR system being so broken
Killer, especially newbies vs newbies, should easily get 2~4 kills (as in 6~12 hook stage) as this game is and should pro killers. Survivor should be terrified of the killers and do nothing their whole game until they finally learn something. But since MMR and balance issue, there is always some good survivors/killers in the match ready to destroy the opposite team, or killer just bring NOED and raise their MMR incorrectly. I still play this game as there is no game feels like it, but I seriously have no hope in their balancing
It is of course a complicated problem - to make an asymmetrical multiplayer game that can be enjoyed by casual players just dropping in as well as by experienced players running meta builds and communicating. But there *is* a quick and easy solution - simply nerf Pig.
exactly it is not easy! People make it seem like its a piece of cake to balance dbd when realistically no game is balanced.
It would probably be a LOT easier for them if they didn't have to consistently add new content, but "games as a service" is just how things are done these days, I guess 🙄 How else are you supposed to milk money from your playerbase?
I mean gameplay wise I feel like idv is doing better since it has an actual competitive mode and the tournament matches(official ones with monetary prizes) can get really exciting. Toxicty still a major issue though.@@uhmokay4316
@blxrwtch you are against new content? I've never heard that complaint before.
@@SmugPrikAdding new content (with minimal playtesting) without addressing fundamental issues with the game just smacks of greed and apathy.
It's not just the most unbalanced game btw, it's also the most toxic game. It at the very least makes it to the top 10 most toxic games I've ever played.
Predecessor is even worse, believe it or not. I don't get t-bagged and flashlight clicked into oblivion there, but everybody hates their own teammates just as much as they hate the enemy team.
Yeah Ive heard several DbD players say the same thing
Dbd isn't that toxic tbh, it's just that so many people are entitled and have the "us vs them" mentality
you haven’t played a lot of games then….
@@perseus1666 Tell me which games I have and have not played lol
A lot of these problems seem tied to the nature of horror itself. You aren't supposed to know things as a survivor. If a horror movie had people with too much experience or in constant communication, it wouldn't be a good horror movie.
thats definitely a big part of it
Unfortunately DbD reverses this. Survivors get a ton of information, and Killers really don't.
@@Clown_the_Clownyea that’s what they just said
@@Clown_the_Clown killers CAN get a lot of Information with perks and If they pay attention to their surroundings
@@aWigglyssame time though, SWF isn’t a perk and breaks the game
A good friend of mine who is quite good at this game on both sides said before that the developers don't know what they're doing, this game is entirely an accidental success and does not play the way the devs think it plays or intended it to play and thus they have no clue how to actually balance it. What they do know is that all these big name IPs they bring in make them a ton of money. So even though the game is a mess, they're more focused on DLCs than trying to learn from their mistakes and actually make the game fun for everyone.
I love that the only killer you don't own is skull merchant
lmaooo. somebody noticed. f that killer
@@rndThursday based and tinfoil-mask-pilled
@@rndThursdayI’m absolutely convinced that skull merchant was at one point a predator collaboration even that fell through during development
Mf sounds like she is from Dead -V- Cells
@@rndThursdayi actually did the same thing, purposely ignoring her and getting her perks as teachables from the shrine of secrets. i'm currently on my all achievement grind and want the two achievements related to her to be the only ones i'll never get
the biggest problem with BHVR's approach to balance is that they remain vague about whether or not certain strategies are acceptable. They're just like "camping 🤷♂" "tunneling 🤷♂" hiding 🤷♂"
Hiding was absolutely intended at the beginning. But in modern times when stealth options and the meta itself have changed? Yeah there's lots of ambiguity now
came back to this video after devs confirmed the killer "Skull Merchant" would be getting massive nerfs just to soft-disable her until they can rework her because how how much everyone hates her
infinite view hack cuz the video will always be relevant 😂
@@rndThursday lolll true
The duality of ‘oh look, another blight’ and ‘it’s a Freddy?!?!’
Then the Freddy gets obliterated and plays blight
My initial reaction was "wait, I don't remember DbD being *that* bad", but then I remembered that my experience was with more modern versions (what the hell was some of those old design decisions?) and with a "no perks, no items" policy, because they really made the game unfun. It definitely feels like that was what the game was intentionally designed for, at least to me.
I remember I once took in an item that gave everyone extra currency after the game. Rainbow intestines or something? And then the survivors teabagged me at the exit gate. I said something like “Maaan, I bring in the rainbow intestines and still get teabagged?” One of them actually commented on my profile and apologized for teabagging. Probably the only positive experience I ever had playing that game.
There's nothing more satisfying than seeing an ignorant and cocky developer believing their game perfect, and then playing their own game, live, in front of a massive crowd and witnessing for the first time just how badly it was balanced in the form of them getting mercilessly bullied in a public lobby.
This is why you don't balance exclusively around data, because mechanics might seem fine in the controlled testing environment where they use skills as they "intended", but out in actual games the devs are just completely unaware of the disgustingly powerful true potential these things can have in a tryhard's toolkit.
watching the developer get bullied by flashlight spam was the most hilarious thing i’ve ever seen
One thing that frustrated me about this game isn't how it's balanced, but just how rage inducing it is to play with people.
You're playing a horror game, it's supposed to be intense and stressful while also causing dread and fear.
And like a real horror villain or serial killer, do you think they'd just drop you off at an area and expect you to stay dead? No, they'd stay with the victim and toy with them or torment them to prevent them from escaping.
Apparently, you have to be a gentlemanly serial killer that allows players a chance to escape you? Also just how the survivors are played. You'd think for a horror game like this, the perspective role would be reversed. First person for them creating a more immersive and horrifying experience. Third person for the killers which would allow a wider view for them to make it easier to see survivors, creating an even more tense atmosphere for survivors because just one wrong move could get you spotted.
The crazy part is just how content DBD players are, and when I try to bring it up with any player (Like my friends) they just complain about the complaints towards their favorite game even though it deserves its criticism.
I'll never understand why people don't want a horror game to be horrifying or stressful 🤦🏻
19:25 Small thing, but this historical joke actually would've made more sense with Harry Truman instead of Oppenheimer. Since Oppenheimer deeply regretted making the nuclear bomb while the president had no regrets over dropping the bomb whatsoever, even calling Oppenheimer a "cry baby".
He must have been very alpha smegma kekpilled individual not to womp womp
@@buggothTruman was in fact, pretty based
More like TrueMan
This is factually incorrect.
Source: I saw it in a movie
You missed the most broken part of Legion: being able to make it literally impossible to mend in time before the bleed downed you. You didn't have to chase them or keep hitting them, you could hit them twice with frenzy and just leave. With the right combination of add-ons and perks at the time, you could extend the amount of time it took to mend to be more than the max deep wounds timer so every two hits was a guaranteed down. It's one of the only times there's been a legitimately massive exploit.
the same way we got flashlights fixed by making the dev play against them, its time to force the devs to sit through 20 soloq survivor matches where they get tunnelled out every time so they can realise how boring that is too.
DbD is one of those games that looked like shit when I first saw it, but I figured it must have some redeeming factors behind its janky animations and shitty graphics since so many people liked it. Then everything I hear about it for the next decade from fans and critics alike is overwhelmingly negative, and it is still one of the ugliest, jankiest games I've ever seen. I'm genuinely convinced this game is only popular because of some sort of mass hysteria lmao.
dbd has a lot going for it that keeps it so popular (almost nothing to do with the game itself)
1. licenses for very popular franchises
2. lots of entertaining content creators
3. (probably most importantly) nearly no competitors in the market. games like VHS or Friday the 13th were promising but shut down
it has tried improving the jank and visuals over the years, but at a snails pace tbh
@@rndThursday I guess that makes sense. I tried getting into it briefly because I liked Otzdarvas DS2 content so much in the past, but I just didn't get it. Good luck kicking the habit, and good job on the video!
DBD Is obviously so popular cause It's fun to play for a ton of people, also partly because people can play some cool characters from their favorite franchises.
@@rndThursday For the devs and their apparent lack of talent at making a game or even remotely balancing it, it probably was the right decision to just overlay counter upon counter for the previous unbalanced stuff instead of putting in lots of hours into still failing to fix it and instead pour the money into licenses that let them get people to play "as their favourite killer".
@@b130610 the Otz Dark Souls to DbD downfall has to be studied
When the CEO is not smart enough to realize that directing people to playing another game is bad for his own business..... 41:28
he thought he cooked
hes not the CEO his last name is CETO
Sweaty players really should do this tho
@@Starpotion Whether or not that's the case you, as a dev or any other salesman, should not be directing your audience to a rival or different product. It's bad for business and can even lead to bankruptcy because no one will be interested in your product, causing sales to plummet and leaving your company in financial stress.
I want to believe that the day before he bought a bunch of stocks in Sid Meier
One thing I’ve always thought was interesting is there are 2 kinds of rank 1 killers. One who abuses broken/op perks and killers and one who masters their craft to not need to rely on those things. There’s also 3 kinds of rank 1 survivors: assholes who abuse perks/items to their fullest, absolute gods of movement and mind games (usually I still see them running exhaustion perks but I think that’s a product of map design), and the immersed Claudette/Nea that got to rank 1 pip by pip hiding, barely touching gens, and letting their last teammate die to grab hatch every game.
holy shit why did that game director allow that to happen. It makes him look extremely incompetent. Any other studio would shoot down the request IMMEDIATELY because of the publicity.
Frankly, It is a case of being so far removed from normal gamers that these project leads/studio managers don't even know just how broken their product is.
Ego.
To be fair balancing an asymmetrical game sounds very hard. I can’t imagine there could be anything more difficult to balance than that.
Oftentimes the issue for me isn’t even the balance of the asymmetrical game I’m playing, it’s that usually one side is way more fun to play than the other which means 50% of the time I’m guaranteed to not have fun just on a base level. In DBD I’d want to play the killer all the time because that sounds more fun to me than playing walking away sneakily simulator, like if ykyk
@@collinsnow2203 Survivor is like only fun with friends.
I think left 4 dead had the right approach. Every match players swap sides and play as both the infected, and survivors. Even if survivors were stronger than infected at high levels, it didn't matter as much because both sides had to play rounds as infected.
@@huckmart2017 That’s good example of proper asymmetrical balancing. Too bad they couldn’t make Back for Blood as good as that.
@@collinsnow2203Survivor is only really fun to play with at least one friend I feel.
Imagine being one of those people who queued up with the game dev by pure chance and (literally) beat him at his own game
If the devs played the game and not "balance" everything by stats the game would be more fun.
A klt of perks are useless, a lot of addons for killers (the majority) are useless, maps are too big, and skill based matchmaking in a no competitive game
spitting fax yuri. annoying that some killers have god tier addons that make them overpowered, but then you got trapper addons that make traps not hurt you
The problem there is that you get communities like League of Legends' where players insult devs for nerfing things they hate as abuse of power. E.g. the ping incident where a dev was accused of removing pings because he got spam pinged in a game, or when Pyke got nerfed a month after a dev got absolutely owned by a Pyke player. They were unrelated, but players are gonna make shit up to cope anyway.
@@jonaza2105 You are delusional if you think developers don't have favourites based on what they play.
@@cattysplat you are delusional if you think that a) single devs have enough power to push biased balance changes by themselves and that b) these balance changes aren't made by entire balance teams based on multivariate analyses (eg winrate, player satisfaction, rank distribution, etc). Either way, you didn't disprove my point which was exactly that because Devs can be personally biased, that's why they tend to balance with math rather than just throwing out opinions. + Even in a perfect world where devs arent biased, players will still accuse them of being biased.
@yuri_8368 hey where did you get your profile pic from
"Your game's changes have drained all the fun out of it. What can be done to fix it?"
"Play a different game lol"
thats what happens when the fanbase just complain
The funniest part? He was absolutely right
What do you expect him to say? If you don't enjoy DBD, then leave. If you used to have fun and now don't, you're probably burned out. Once frustrations overtake fun, quit. The devs are doing their best to mitigate frustration and make it more fun but not everyone is gonna like it.
@@famulanrevengeance3044that just prove the game is complete garbage lol who in their right mind would play a game which even the own dev tell you to play something else
@@DOGEELLL The developer tells you to play something else if you're getting burned out and frustrated. He is not responsible for your emotions. It's a difficult, competitive game with many factors outside of your control. Deal with it, or leave.
Borderline the worst game I have ever played in my entire life. I bought it as I saw it was ADVERTISED as a casual hide and seek game where you play survivor with NO communication, 100+ hours into the game and I found out from the internet you can make premade groups which completely defeated the 'no communication part' so I was wondering why as killer some survivors were way too coordinated for the lack of communication.
You cannot call this a casual game yet have game breaking killers that destroy casual players, and SWF who are destroying low tier killers. Nurse is still a killer that has no counter and is still in the game, in my opinion she should have been spoken about in this video because she is the only killer in the game that is able to ignore every single survivor mechanic that they have to defend themselves, to the point to actually win against her the player of that killer has to be the one making a mistake.
And the blatant favourtism with licensed chapters. Chucky is the only killer in the game that has a third person view because they are small, which completely goes against the rules of the game, yet Victor who is practically smaller than him is in first person. You cannot even loop the guy because you cannot see him and has the ability to turn off the red stain. Latest chapters as well (Dracula and Vecna) all licensed have 3 abilities, because the developers are clearly running out of ideas. Dracula is arguably the stronger version of Spirit. Releasing killers in an already bloated game is a recipe for disaster, as even months in, every single player even me included have no idea how to counter them.
I don't understand the competitiveness as well, this game doesn't have any unique mechanics to even be competitive, everyone is playing the exact same, what is there to even compete and the rewards is close to nothing, bloodpoints where most of it goes to the most useless items in the game. What are people even in competing for, for a non existent leaderboard? So many killers have the same ability but in a different font, survivor gameplay is non existent. The only people who play this game are the people who have never played a video game before, because this is the most shallow game ever.
God, hearing this man say... "Balanced Landing" in the same section as old Haddonfield gave me PTSD flashbacks
When I still played R6 Siege many years ago, they would solely balanced the game based off statistics too (mainly pick rates vs win rates and nothing else) and it would lead to just random nonsensical nerfs that anyone who played the game couldn't understand why. Glad to be vindicated with yet more obvious proof that this is the absolute worst way to balance a game, because I never saw anyone else complaining about this surprisingly
Then how to properly balance a game as a game developer? You don't think of balancing a game, is that all?
@@razorback9999able I think nonsense decisions come from relying too much on stats, games are too complicated to treat it like a balance sheet where they try to hit magical 50-50 win rates on everything. Stats don't come close to telling the whole story of why things are the way they are.
The best way would also be the most time consuming so I understand why they don't do it - playing the game with the community and taking feedback
IMO the main issue with trying to balance through stats is that it ignores making the game actually fun to play. Players don't actually notice or care a lot of the time if something is statistically slightly better than something else but feels similar to use. However, they will notice if you nerf said thing in tangible ways that make it less effective. The goal of balance shouldn't really be to make it as even as flipping a coin, but to be as enjoyable for the players as possible.
@@KittyTheKat441the stats didn't also take into consideration the time allotments the players had. Prolly need to separate players with 30 hrs experience from the newbies. 50 hrs separated from 30 hrs, 100 hrs separated from 50, etc.
@@razorback9999able How about actually listening to the feedback of the community? If your whole community says one perk is bad and ruins the game, why does it take a whole year before its nerfed?
Morale of the story, bring back kink shaming. Dont let your friends fall into the DBD cycle of pain
As a casual gamer and an absolute noob I loved the first few weeks of the game where no one had any strategy and it was just a fun, scary game with friends. I stopped playing as soon as a friend of mine started to explain "camping" and different strategies and ranking to me. I am the exact opposite to a competetive player.
You can succeed without being an asshole in DBD if you just put in a little effort and realize that you're not always going to win the match. Yet, good performance will lead you to ranking up regardless. But people don't want to do that. Face camping used to be a guarantee of a kill. I guess some killers were so childish they couldn't handle the survivors having even the smallest victory and putting in effort to hook someone else was too much. And yet it made the game boring as fuck as EVERYONE now sits afk- The killer, the hooked person, the people doing gens and the person trying to rescue the hooked person, literally of them are afk because of this. It's insane how anyone accepted this, including the devs, should've been punished with suspensions.
If a soccer team scores a point and then refuses to play, they don't automatically win, they get suspended and lose.
My exact thoughts. Only other time I've played this game aside from when it first launched was when pyramid head got added. I then uninstalled the game after realizing what a sweat fest the game had evolved into😂
"the only real victory is making sure that the other side isn't having any fun." 😂😂😂
I cannot believe you didn't mention the absolute horror everything was with the skull merchant as someone who had played on legion release Her release was abysmal. Great video though ill be seeing you in the entity's realm
The funniest thing about old Legion is that they sucked so hard that even unrelated killers were dragged down by them.
In ye olden days, Nurse’s Calling used to reveal survivor auras whenever they performed any healing action, including the “snap out of it” command when facing Doctors. This made a certain amount of thematic sense: to “snap out” of their insanity, survivors had to stop and take a moment to reorient themselves and return to their senses. It makes sense then that Nurse’s Calling would beckon Doctors toward vulnerable survivors trying to heal their fractured psyches. Consequently, Nurse’s Calling was one of the best arrows in the Doctor’s quiver… Until the Legion was released.
Shortly after the community got its hands on the Legion, a discovery was made: the mending action wouldn’t reveal a survivor to Nurse’s Calling! The assumption among the wider player base at the time was that this was a bug or an oversight on BHVR’s part, so the community brought this discrepancy to BHVR’s attention. If stitching together a shattered mind activated Nurse’s Calling, then surely stitching up a physical wound should do the same!
BHVR heard these quibbles and leapt into action. The following patch, the Doctor was nerfed and his synergy with Nurse’s Calling went away over night.
I’m still fucking mad about it.
Tbh nurse calling should have never worked with doctor power to begin with lmao.
Perks should never affect directly powers or balance becomes problematix
making a perk reveal healing on any killer while also revealing one particular action on a certain killer makes no sense at all
@@broextraordinary4063 Agree to disagree. Personally, I think designing perks to meaningfully interact with a killer’s unique design adds flavor, depth, and variety to the game. I’ll concede that this is clearly contrary to the direction BHVR wants to take the game in (as recently evidenced by the nerf to STBFL), but I nonetheless believe that their binary approach to perk design has played a massive role in the game’s stagnant killer meta. Call me a contrarian, but I think it’s a good thing when some killers can make better use of a perk than others.
@@Undkor it is right that some killers should gain more value from s perk than others.
But perks shouldn't affect the power itself or that becomes a mess.
Example: Third seal and Ruin are top tier on twins because they almost always use victor and as such these two perk synergies with what the power causes but not with the power itself.
OR
Wesker gain more value from starstruck, but that's because he has 40 meters terror radius and it doesn't affect directly his power
About the Legion section---it's not that Legion was powerful. In fact, they were very bad. It's that there was no nuance to Legion's gameplay. The skill ceiling was as high as the floor, and no matter what you as a survivor did in chase, the legion always downed you in a little over one minute. This meant that every chase was slow, but inevitably you'd still die,
So "Legion is not powerful and is bad" but at the same time "You will still die regardless what you try to do"
@@wickermind6668 Legion could only guarantee one kill, maybe two max, per match because the process took so long.
Meanwhile these were the days of hillbilly instasaw where you were dead within a second of him catching up to you
It was horribly slow murderer with a spoon shit. You would die eventually but your team would be fine if they weren't brain dead.
@@commiekin
- Uses a lil shaft
- Built like a twink
- Still manages to be able to down half the survivors team before the match ends
Legion the Gigachad
This video brought back memories of the last year I spent working on balancing for a Dawn of war mod…what a nightmare experience, not because of there being 30+ races in an rts, no, but because of the devs doing things similarly to what was being done here.
I learned the hard way that “everything being broken means nothing is broken” is an excuse from people either being lazy or who don’t understand the problem. Gimmick abilities countered by even more gimmicky abilities that reinforce a cancerous playstyle, all while the player base is holding out hope that if that ONE thing is fixed then the real game underneath it all will finally be worth it
This game has had so many bullshit metas that I don't think a 5 hour long video would be enough to go through all of them lmao
literally every meta was bullshit
And that's what makes dbd the best. The meme material is ENDLESS!!!
This dev team is the reason I stopped playing. They have made, by far, the most ridiculous and most unintelligent balancing decisions I have ever seen a dev team make. They literally cannot achieve a W. And the number of times I've seen them make the exact same mistake, over and over again, is so mind blowing that I just gave up on them. If chat gpt had been around when this game came out, I would've thought that that is where they get all their code and come up with all their ideas.
they wanted fun by making spending money never was about balance
Its because of the spreadsheet deving they do, they legit just made a whole revamp to twins, only too have the revert the whole things within hours because it was so bad. They are no redoing the whole thing and the community's response was "Hey how about asking us next time instead of wasting all this time and money on this?
Yeah instead of changing a broken perk or killer, they add an EVEN MORE broken perk or killer to counter the previous problem, making everything FAR WORSE 😭
The funny part is that there's plenty of stuff that wasn't even mentioned here, such as Blight, hex undying, 3 gening and of course chess merchant. And then there's the hilarious fact that despite ALL of this, dbd is the only successful asymmetrical game that has survived long-term.
I think a big problem, at least back then, is that Behavior's design philosophy was to just add DLC to "fix " issues rather than overhaul them.
Survive with friends sounds like it's only truly fun if all five people in a match are in the same discord call.
True, it is! However the game doesn't reward you for playing 5-stacks and good luck finding 4 other people who still play the game.
customs with friends in this game is really fun, if they made it so customs gave bloodpoints I would probably exclusively play it lol
Personally I think the worst balanced game is brood war, but due to the players in the maps it's actually the greatest balanced game that has ever been created.
Literally everything in starcraft is broken if you have the APM to do it all.
“Just go play another game” is such a great advice that most people never take 😭
My girlfriend plays this, and she says it's unfun when the killer just tries to win.
I can't think of a single moment in my life where I'd say comradery should be depended on for a good game.
It’s not a sign of a good game when your opponent trying to win makes the game unfun
God forbid the killer wants to kill
@@counter8595legit nobody thinks the killer shouldn't want to kill. It just shouldn't be at the major cost of a survivor's ability to play the game. Being tunneled out early on means you're leaving the match with barely anything gained from it (like 6k blood points or something). Being slugged or camped is like being stun locked for 1-4 minutes. You can't even "git gud" in this case cuz how can you improve if you're barely able to interact with the game mechanics.
You don't think good sportsmanship is important for a fair and fun match? Lol. It's so fun when people take a dive in soccer, when referees are partial to one side, when people argue about rule violations that may or may not have happened or when people go for illegal strikes in fighting sports.
Every game becomes extremely unfun unless everyone agrees to keep it above the belt. Choose to have fun, don't choose to ruin it for others because you think your own fun is more important.
@@famulanrevengeance3044 It's a video game, dumbo. If there was a button in a game to "take a dive" then it'd be a stupid video game.
You want me to slow down if I'm beating you in a race just so you can feel better about yourself?
One thing that I recently heard someone say about the game is that it’s not competitive. When I thought about it, it’s true. There is no “winner” really. If you look at each match as just an opportunity to gain XP and to have fun playing. Once I started playing like that it became way more satisfying and less intense.
Dude that fuckin' Helldivers survive-until-extraction song took me by surprise. Well done
democracy never sleeps
@@rndThursday that's one more video for the right side of history.
Liberty has seen this video through
Title??
Worst game i've ever played in my life. Recieved racism and death threats for using post nerf legion and old clown and never went back. the streamers i played against at old rank 1 were some of the most vile people i've ever interacted with. 4 years clean of this garbage
Good thing bro the people that play this game and the game itself is garbage
I might put it in my list of the worst overrated game of all time its that bad along with fortnite league ect
@heavensgate2245l4d2 is so much more chill when youre not playing versus. Its fantastic.
Ive seen a lot of youtubers that out DBD streamers as the most toxic and holy shit the things they say live??? Ive never seen a more toxic playerbase
Spirit wasn't even a bad thing, she was just what survivor players deserved: something that is hard to play against and their toys couldn't counter her.
Not only the most unbalanced game, but also with one of if not THE most toxic gaming communities out there.
*BUT WAIT! There's more!* DbD also has some of the most virulent cases of "Stockholm Syndrome" out of every other game out there. A lot us have tried quitting several times by now, and live in a perpetual state of raging at the very thought or mention of DbD... But because of the unique sort of addiction that this game can inflict on you? We still keep coming back to *SUFFER* it, time and time again.
DbD, in essence, is the EPITOME of the meme phrase: "Not even once".
Seriously, if you've never played this game? Don't do it. *Avoid it like the plague, if you know what's good for you.*
Death is not an escape
Me with Warframe
Dead by Daylight's toxicity really is magnificent. Never in any other game I've played (No, I haven't played League) have I encountered such excessive vitriol. And I played Overwatch competitive.
I escaped for over a year and a half and mistakenly played a match after missing it like you would miss a line of cocaine.
Now I’m trapped again 😢
@@LilacHeather I'm so sorry to hear.
The only crime worse than how unbalanced this game looks, is how boring it looks. Id rather smash my toes with a log than play "Run in circles and repair generators" Simulator.
I just lost a toenail to a log that's not funny man. 😢
Chases can actually be fun if you're going against the handful of killers that don't largely negate all chase mechanics.
Ive never played dbd amd dont intend to (especially after watching this lmao) but seeing the community manager die inside when director said to play a different game is one of the funniest things ive ever seen lmao
I do think a big problem feels as a killer is how long it takes for Survivor stuff to get nerfed compared to survivors use of abusing it, whereas killer feels like it gets nerfed way quicker
There is absolutely a bias, presumably because the game wants a 4:1 ratio, meaning Survivors being happy with the role is more valuable to the devs that Killers' enjoyment.
It's to make the game better for new players (mainly new survivors)
Ruin/Undying killer meta lasted three months. Unbreakable/Decisive strike meta lasted 5 years. There's a pretty clear bias, like you said.
@@athrielleviera678 only three months I thought it was at least a year
@@athrielleviera678 Old Ruin was in the game for over 3 years. You're just selectively remembering/forgetting things to fit your agenda.
The dev can solve DBD's issue's and bugs by adding new Feng skins, buffing Blight, nerfing Pig, and then the final recipe is adding a new DLC that comes with more issue's and bugs then the cycle repeats
This might be a stupid question but why does the game look so ugly in most of the clips. Like i know that the game was made in 2016 but it has to look better than this. Maybe im wrong and its just a valorant/csgo scenario where playing on the lowest graphics gives an advantage?
To this day I don't know why Bhvr refuses to add some kind of dedicated ranked competitive mode. It really sucks loading into a match with a fun but suboptimal setup, realizing that the other side has brought their sweatiest loadout possible and the next 10-15 minutes are going to be absolutely miserable for you because you decided NOT to tryhard. I would much rather have a segmented playerbase with longer queue times across the board if it meant that I could predict what kind of experience I was going to have beforehand
TF2 has shown me that this wouldn't make much of a difference. Tryhards would still frequent the casual lobbies.
it’s because this game is mind numbingly boring as a competitive game. every single match it is the nurse vs 4 blendettes with genrush builds. the mode wouldn’t be competitive with the standard mode as everyone would get bored. the small number of people who enjoy that already play it via custom games.
@@corsacs3879ranked base on each killer then for each survivor so you can compete for best to use a specific character.
There's something interesting about how power players will always find the least fun way to win a game
Evolution of the meta is the most fascinating yet horrible thing to witness in multiplayer game development. I've seen your tf2 vids before so I know you have much familiarity with that 😂😂
bros response to "hey killer isn't fun anymore" is just "don't play our game, go play civ, a much better game" and yknow what, he's not wrong
I'm a trapper main, who played during the meta of destroying hooks, with Hangman's Trick.
Whenever a survivor sabotages a hook just before I hook their friend, I stare at them for 10 seconds, and then hook the survivor when it automatically repairs. I know I soiled a few pants in my day.