Thanks for making this video. Had some thoughts on the BMS short circuit protection. The BMS is designed for 60A pulse discharge for up to 3 seconds and 24A continuous. Your steel alligator clamps and test lead are really small and might not be able to sustain 60A for three seconds. Try creating a bolted fault with a contactor or a DC marine circuit breaker with 10AWG wire. Remember that circuit breakers, fuses, and likely the overcurrent protection in a BMS is following a trip curve on a time/current chart. The other battery has a 30A continuous rating but no pulse or peak rating. It's BMS might not have a trip curve and clears the fault as soon as 30A is exceeded. Do you still have this battery? Also, if you want to test overcurrent protection with bolted faults, consider using two circuit breakers in series, so one doesn't close itself to a bolted fault (it damages circuit breakers through arc gap erosion). Keep up the great work. Nothing but good results from my Dakota Lithium 10Ah, I have two from 2016 and four new ones. Will run a capacity test on the old ones to see how they are getting along in lifecycle.
Thanks Jeremy for telling us like it is! I purchased a 12 amp hour Rebel last week Amazon didn't have it in stock so I ordered it from the Rebel web site on late Tuesday night and it arrived on Friday. Not bad service this time. I appreciate what you do for us. Your video helped with my decision to purchase that battery. It fits my needs perfect.
YOUR WRONG. How can you test short circuit protection using wire so thin? That’s like 24 gauge, It’s TOO SMALL. The resistance is way too high on such a small cable, the battery thinks it’s just a brief high load, not a dead short. The currant output on Dakota lithium batteries surpasses all others, they are known for this. that’s why they have a beefier bms than any other. And require a short with very low resistance so it can sense a short from a high draw load. I’ve used Dakota lithium batteries for high current applications such as charging capacitors, and running extremely large brushless motors. I’ve even first hand shorted them out with 1 gauge wire and had the bms trip to protect the pack. THESE HAVE SHORT CIRCUIT PROTECTION. You can even see the big ass mosfets that do that switching in this video! This is why I love Dakota lithium batteries. They’re bms is designed for the cells they use in they’re packs. Your “Amped” battery uses a generic off the shelf bms that trips it off immediately when it detects any load higher than it’s rating. Dakota lithium bms’s know the cells they’re running, they know the current output characteristics, it knows the cells, the wiring, the mosfets on the board can handle a 3 second spike of a hundred amps. You need to redo this test. You need bigger conductors for the short circuit, at least the size of the main conductors inside the battery, and you need to hold that short for a few seconds at least, not freak out and jump back continuously like we see here. Use a starter contractor if you don’t want to touch the wires together. If anything this is a win for Dakota Lithium. This just shows that they’re battery is capable of actually replacing lead acid counterparts. This battery dimension in particular is used in multiple high drain applications, like portable jump starters and mobility scooters, they can have current spikes up to 200amps. Good to see Dakota lithium’s battery can foot the bill without tripping. Can’t believe you recommend this amped battery that trips at under 1c.
In a world of mis- information I appreciate your honest reviews of the batteries you test. No matter who makes the battery you just tell it like it is! I'm a big Amped Outdoors fan, but they are not perfect either as you pointed out. Keep your videos rolling as I enjoy them and I know they help others decide which battery fits their needs. Thanks.
All i can say is i have owned this battery fir a year now and still blowns my mind i can run a 30lbs minkota trolling motor for 3 hours continious full speed. Fish all day stop and go in lower speeds last all day of fishing. Run my kids power wheels for days and also using to run my fish finder. Which led me to buy two more dakotas. Got a 60ah cranking-deep cycle and the little 10ah so i got three for each use on my livewell too last all day. Now the 60ah i fish all day my 55lbs trolling motor only use 20% of the capacity
Another great video. As a former ND resident of Grand Forks. I was proud of dakota lithium being regarded as the best lifepo4 batteries out there. My opinion is the short circuit protection and cold charge protections aren't necessary if you aren't a moron, but with as delicate and costly lifepo4 batteries are they are a good thing to have. These videos have shown they're not so great even if they have the longest warranty available. For the cost of a dakota lithium they have no excuse producing batteries that don't live up to their claims. The competition has surpassed dakota lithium and I would avoid this brand all together even.
This really bums me out. I am looking forward to buying a 12v 60amp for my 2015 Toyota Corolla S. Would you recommend that this battery is good, or should I just scrap the entire idea of using this type of battery to start my car, and radio, etc., when turned off at a park? $600 on sale is a lot of money to pay for junk -- one expects to get good stuff, tested, that works damnit. What do say? I look forward to your response, it will help many of us out here. Thanks in advance!!!
I have 3 Dakota Lithium 100ah batteries that failed when accidentally short circuited . The BMS failed and DL sent me 3 new batteries. A friend took them apart and the battery cells are fine. Will charge up to 14.5 volts. I would like to use them in a golf cart but would like to replace the BMS just for safety sake. Have you ever tore town a 100ah completely? We never went beyond removing the BMS and rebuilt the aluminum bridge between the 2 cells. There appears to be 4 cells total. Do these tear down more? Can you recommend a BMS that I could use?
I guess I got lucky a couple years ago (TOTALLY by accident) and got the Amped Outdoors 30Ah on sale for $109 w/charger. I say lucky because it's the Amped Outdoors instead of one of the test failures you've shown us. Love your channel and what you're doing for all of us. There seems to be a quality control issue or just a flat out misrepresentation issue among some of the manufacturers of these type of batteries. What you're doing is saving the rest of us from voiding OUR warranties and helping us find the companies that do what they say they do. Thanks for that.
28 year military veteran here. I definitely suffer from OCD because before I buy anything. I research the hell out of it. I have a list of possible batteries that I'm considering using in my boat. This is the middle of my research and Dakota batteries warranty of 11 years jumped out at me as a possibility. thank God for your videos because I have seen 3 out of 4 crap Dakota battery builds.......They just dropped to the bottom on my list of 5. Once again thank You Sir.
Man I fell ripped off I was about to order another one for my trolling motor. Dl recommended two to handle the amps. I put a fused 20 amp circuit breaker on it when running water snake 18lb. I up graded to minnkota 30 lb with same pwm and battey. I try to keep it under 20 because the bms is only 20amp. I think I am gonna order the power queen instead of another Dl 23. Any and all thoughts welcome. Thankyou for the video.
You’re testing it wrong. Think about what lithium capabilities are. A normal load is expected to be 1C with an instantaneous load of up to 3C. And you don’t want to trip SCP on a normal load, which means for a 60Ah, it needs to see a load of over 180A for 0.5s-1s before it classifies that load as a short circuit. Using that tiny wire will not handle 180A for 1s, it will catch fire, which you demonstrated quite well. What we witnessed was a failure of the testing method! I see i’m not the first to mention this but nevertheless that was my thought.
I have a 23ah Dakota and since I watched your video I placed a 3amp fuse to my fish finder. I also have a 36v 63ah trolling battery. Have you tested it before?
Ummm... all this griping about SSP. What current is their SSP rated for? The reason I ask, is because many Dakota Lithium batteries are designed for high current discharge (starter batteries, etc.). Just because it blew tgrough your little wire doesn't mean "it's not protected"... it just means it's capable of discharging more than your little jumper can sustain.
I'm a Dakota Lithium customer and I've always felt that it's a great company with a great product line. So I'm surprised by the results of your test. Has the company reached out to you with any comments after this test?
@@rickss69 Then don't buy it. I rely on design more than reviews and past history. Lithium batteries are still a new industry. They continue to increase in capacity at a rate of 5% per year.
I treat lifepo4 batteries like a lead acid and fuse the positive lead. I also put hot glue on the terminals to prevent a metal object from shorting them and use an sae plug instead of the terminals to disconnect the battery from a load. The batteries I’m using are small ones with small loads, a heavy load you would need much bigger than an sae plug
I've had one of these for about a year. That sucks that the short circuit protection doesn't work, wish you had finished tearing it down as I was curious as to what was inside!
actually it sounds like it has short circuit protection but just not in the way you expect it should. the buzz is the pulse width modulator limiting the current because if you connected a wire across the pack of cells it would be a much bigger spark and would have vaporized the clips.
I just bought this battery and your video has me concerned about my purchase. I reached out to customer service and they quickly replied: Thanks for reaching out. Yes, we have seen this video. The problem is that the tester is using a very small gauge wire to short the battery together. Because the battery can output 24 A max continuous, 60 A max pulse (
Dakota didn't impress me when I was looking to buy a 100Amp battery as it's totally made in China. Bought a Battle Born battery which is manufactured in Reno, Nevada. A disclaimer all lithium cells are made in China including Battle Borns but the big thing is they're put together with American workers here. I would like to see you test and review them. Thanks.
@@iceholepower8012 Yeah it was $900 and that's with the internal heater so you can charge it below 32 degree's. I use it in hunting camp where it can dip to 0 degree's so the heater gives me the ability to charge it every day in freezing temps. You should check out their website about their construction of the batteries.
As you say all batteries should have a fuse on them. Any chance you can recommend a video or instructions as to how to set this up? Recently bought a Marcum lithium shuttle and brute battery and would prefer to be as safe as possible.
Hey Benjamin, thanks for watching. I made a video about the importance of fusing power boxes. Basically you just need an inline fuse holder, put it right off the pos battery post, pop a fuse in and you're all set. th-cam.com/video/dLgYqO-3kMg/w-d-xo.html
I just received this very battery from Amazon and it arrived dead (almost) reading 1.5 volts DC. Placed it on a Dakota charger for 4 hours and nothing. A $228.00 battery plus tax ! Thanks to Amazon Prime, it's going back tomorrow. Thanks for your videos.
Very thorough reviews. Wish everybody else gave a s### like you . As stated above, your information given from these reviews are invaluable. I own a few Dakota 10ah but mostly Ampd. Thanks for all you do with theses batteries. My eyes have been opened.
@@iceholepower8012 I guess it’s more the battery won’t think it’s a short unless it exceeds its output rating. I don’t think that little wire can flow more than what that battery can output which would be why it’s not triggering the short circuit protection
@@19254514099 Exceeding the output rating is not the short circuit protection, that would be the over current protection. This battery is marketed for use with fish finders with small wires. The BMS should be sensitive enough to detect a short while using the wire size of the product that it is advertised to power. I have tested plenty of batteries with smaller fish finder size wires and the short circuit protection works in them.
@@iceholepower8012 I would think it’s a similar circuit. I would just think if that little wire can only flow maybe 20amps for the amount of time it was on there the battery would just see it as a load not a short. Just my $0.02
@@iceholepower8012 Every wire connected to a battery source needs a properly sized fuse. Use a small marine fuse panel to protect these individual wires the same way boats are wired up.
Think it would be better suited with a load bank, that you could see what exactly load it will take before cut off. I have a set of three Dakota 12 V hundred amp hour batteries in my golf cart right now and one disconnects under load way lower than it should… Emailed Dakota interested to see what the reply is. Thanks for your video.
I saw two of these for sale. Craigslist $250 for both. Not a big fan of used electrical anything. Especially a marine battery. What is your suggestion for a pre test.
I was considering buying Dakota 12.8V 23AH batteries for my mobility scooter, but now that's no longer an option. Thanks for testing it. I'm still considering the following 3 batteries for my scooter. If possible, please test and and disassemble the following 3 batteries that I am considering: Amped Outdoor Tall Version 12.8V 30AH Astro Lithium 12.8V 30AH Relion RB20-X 12.8V 20AH (X series) Astro has a much better warranty than Amped. Astro costs $10 more than Amped. My scooter's onboard controller computer electrical specs/needs are: Continuous current 14A (driving full throttle on level ground). 40A max current < 60 seconds (driving up steep ramps)
I believe most mobility scooters have inline fuses in the battery harness that you would be hooking up to this battery to protect you from a fire, should it somehow get shorted. I've been installing SLA batteries in mobility scooters for years and never popped a fuse yet. And we all know that SLA batteries sure don't have any short circuit protection!
@@randyinhawaii6310 @Randy in Hawaii SLA batteries are a different animal. Lithium (including LiFePo4) need a short circuit protection built into BMS for safety, IMO. Even if scooter has its own short circuit fuse.
@@iceholepower8012 Live Scope, 126sv and 106sv which are all fused individually using 7.5 amp fuses. I thought each different AH battery would have a amperage recommendation for fuse size or maximum fuse size
@@iceholepower8012Have you started a petreon yet? If everyone who asked you to "please test X battery " chipped in $10, you'd be able to test and break down those batteries in no time.
It seems their quality does not match what they advertise. Sounds like I need to stay away from that brand. I bought a rebel battery after you tested it. Love it. Thanks for all your testing.
I literally just purchased one of these. Is there a way I can safely test the BMS in mine without damaging the battery? If it isn’t working I want to return it.
Rock and a hard spot there. Not really, if you intentionally short circuit it, you will void the warranty. You could put a inline fuse right off of the positive battery terminal or try and return it.
Create a bolted fault with a 60A circuit breaker and 4AWG wire. If the BMS fails to interrupt the current it is a manufacturing defect. Also put a fuse on every wire that leaves a battery.
I am sure there are better battery's them Amped but you have solid me on the Amped. Sorry my brother in law messed up my box but my battery is working just right. and as you subjected I did add a inline fuse for added safety.
Is it possible that you are getting faulty batteries from Amazon or is Amazon just selling Dakota batteries for them kinda thing I know Amazon has knock off stuff labeled as the actual things in other categories of stuff
I bought a tin of JSB pellets on Amazon last week. Everything looked good on the outside, but inside the pellets had some sort corrosion and the pellets had a lot of damage. JSB makes top of the line stuff, so the pellets I received were some sort of scam. I hope Amazon doesn't completely turn into Ebay.
Appreciated your voltage and amp draw video. I have all ECO Worthy batteries in my bass boat. BPM works excellent. Check them out. 2 150 ah for my Ultrex. 1 100ah for 2 10” ultras and 1 9” Garmin 93sv. Live scope 1 30 ah, 1 30ah Garmin 10” Ultra. 2024 Nitro Z
You probably have some automotive jumper cables handy. That would be the right tool for a proper BMS short circuit test. I know that you repeatedly say the typical application of your users has light gauge wire, but that’s an issue for choosing the appropriate fuse to match their wire capacity. If the battery is designed to produce a lot of current safely you need to test the BMS accordingly. I like your videos and approach in general but you’re off the mark defending your little jumper wire. It’s not able to properly test the BMS itself. I grew up on a farm making stuff work and wiring up irrigation pumps and the like. Eventually got an MSEE and probably learned about as much on the farm as in college. I’ve seen a few melted wires and blown some big fuses. I would use some high capacity jumper cables for that short circuit test, wear some protective gear, and do it outdoors.
Little disappointed that I'm already using these inside my kid's electric dirtbike, shirt circuit protection was a consideration. But I am glad I saw this before I used Dakota for my next, very large project that I'm planning right now. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for another great test Jeremy! I'm bummed because I bought two of these last fall. They're working OK so far. Fingers crossed. Any chance you can test a reBel 50Ah?
My 100 AMP Hour Dakota lithimum only went a few hours before something went haywire and the charger would show "green" and the battery as fully charged even thought it had been used for a few hours that day. Customer support has been non-existent. For $900 this has been a tough pill to swallow.
@@frankhunt5018 They sent me a new charger and that fixed the problem. it took them a bit to get around to me but they did. I'm willing to give them another chance. I suppose they're just overwhelmed with business right now.
I have this 23ah battery, and you confirmed that I have a piece of junk! It has never held charge for longer than 5 to 6 hrs, after a full night of charging. I am trying to get them to replace it, and so far DL just giving me the run around. That 11 yr warranty is crap. Honestly will not buy anymore DL Batteries, now that I have witnessed this!
Dakota lithium made alot of money with great advertising, early to the market and over charging the consumer. Ive seen more than a few fail test and not be the best built options all while dakota charged extremely high prices.
Wow. I am disappointed, as I was looking at buying one of these. Based on your recommendations, I bought 12v 12ah reBel batteries. I am currently building a power box for it, with solar. You mention fusing a lot. I took out a fuse block and added an inline fuse instead. One question I have "When wiring my boxes, I use an SAE connector, and run it straight to the solar charge controller(SSC), so I plug the solar panel into it directly. My inline fuse is on the battery lead running from battery directly to the main power switch, then the main power switch is run to the SCC. Is this wired correctly?" Keep up the awesome vids. When you have small glo cups back in stock l'll order one. Thanks again.
I got a reply: Thanks for reaching out. Yes, we have seen this video. The problem is that the tester is using a very small gauge wire to short the battery together. Because the battery can output 24 A max continuous, 60 A max pulse (
Mike, thanks for the feedback from Dakota Lithium. I understand their point on why the wire melted however, that doesn't explain why this test showed over 2x the max pulse at 60 amps and short protection did not kick on. Additionally, I see nothing on their sight stating that smaller gauge wires not intended to carry up to 60 amps should be used on this battery. That's significant since may boat owners are unaware of the drawback ans battery design. If they were to wire something like a small pump for bait to this battery with small gauge wire and it shorts out without the battery short protection, that could be dangerous. Just my opinion, thanks.
Wow. So the way you do your short circuit test is dangerous on many levels. You should watch some of Will Prowses videos. The 23 amp DL battery has a 3 second surge of 60 amps. I'm guessing it will surge higher for a shorter amount of time. Shorting the wires together is NOT the way to do this. I suggest you use an inverter or some other way to load this battery and measure the current draw to find out at what the cut off current is. -Ray
Hi Ray. Thanks for watching! I think that you might think that the short circuit protection and the high load protection features of a BMS is the same thing. It's not. The BMS should detect the presence of a short circuit condition almost instantly and open the circuit. Where in a high current situation, the BMS should recognize a higher load than it was rated for and then open the circuit. My channel is geared towards anglers so with that in mind, DL heavily markets this battery to kayak fishermen and ice fisherman. Our fish finders typically have 20-16 AWG wire to connect them to a battery. In the test I went with the middle ground of an 18AWG wire to simulate a fish finder dead short. Will does not do the short circuit test in his videos but I have seen him do the high load test here and there. I'm not too concerned with the high load test because fish finders are low current devices. Will does the high load test because his audience is running their RV or in many cases, their houses on solar and batteries.
@@iceholepower8012 You're welcome. I just found your channel. What you say does makes perfect sense. I email DL to see what their response is. If you are interested is selling the battery you took apart I would like to do further testing. If not I may order one to test.
Sounds good. I actually keep the batteries that I teardown so I can compare them to other builds from the same company to determine if the build quality is consistent.
DO NOT buy the AMP outdoor. Dakota is the winner here. It shows us how wide of an application Dakota can deliver. Short protection almost redundant in these type of batteries. Dakota shows that their cells can resist a lot of heat before bursting. I am buying one today. For fire protection, please put a fuse rated for your wire close to the battery terminal using thick wires. Fires are mostly started by low quality cell during charging. than from shorts. You might test for fires while charging.
For your information the co-owner of Dakota has admitted in a TH-cam response that Dakota BMS only provide internal cell protection and not external. Therefore you didn't test a "dud" BMS. th-cam.com/video/vraRhNpEWcE/w-d-xo.html. Keep up the good work. People should not be paying more for a product in the mistaken belief that they are buying quality. Thanks for helping to expose the lie.
Thanks a lot for the video. I was about to buy this 23ah for my helix 9. Now I’d stay away from all these premium “American” brands like ND and battle born. There is no way to justify for that price.
So much wrong with this video/your testing. Im sorry man. Dakota lithium short circuit will absolutely work if you absolutely gave it a dead short other than with your "resistance wire" you're using lol. You gotta be kidding me man? I don't need a battery that cuts out during extreme surge load. If you're going to do a short circuit test, you gotta mean it. Wow. Understand wire gauge and resistance before you go messing around. As far as I'm concerned your other batteries failed the short circuit test because they cut out way too easily with your "resistance wire"
That little wire you tried to short circuit the battery with will not consume more current than the battery can safely supply so was never going to make it trip. If it had tripped with that little wire the battery would be unable to provide any cranking power. You clearly don't understand how this works which in my book makes your review worthless.
WOW...with the price they charge and trying to position themselves as a premium product, you would think they'd have all the bases covered. Turns out Dakota is just more Chinese junk? That is incredibly disappointing.
@@iceholepower8012 - If a guy could source the right components, including a quality BMS with true protection against short-circuit, high-temp, low-temp, along with high and low voltage, plus the cells, cases and other parts, you would probably go broke on the labor to put them together, because you couldn't sell them for what they're worth. 😕
I do have this battery. It just failed this weekend. I use it to drive my Garmin Echomap 94sv. When a company buys all their products from China, you are going to get crap. I’m done with them.
*I DOWNVOTED THIS VIDEO BECAUSE THERE WAS NO FOLLOWUP AFTER THE COMPANY BECAME AWARE OF THIS VIDEO.* They immediately fixed the short protection. I called them and they stand by their product. They DO answer the phone during business hours. There is no point in a 'teardown'. Performance comes from the terminals and if you have no schematic you have no clue what you are seeing when you open it.
This video here definitely shows lots of bias. I really wish you could've taken a genuinely neutral stance and completed testing and teardown as it and all the others deserve. Shame
Thanks for making this video. Had some thoughts on the BMS short circuit protection. The BMS is designed for 60A pulse discharge for up to 3 seconds and 24A continuous. Your steel alligator clamps and test lead are really small and might not be able to sustain 60A for three seconds. Try creating a bolted fault with a contactor or a DC marine circuit breaker with 10AWG wire. Remember that circuit breakers, fuses, and likely the overcurrent protection in a BMS is following a trip curve on a time/current chart. The other battery has a 30A continuous rating but no pulse or peak rating. It's BMS might not have a trip curve and clears the fault as soon as 30A is exceeded. Do you still have this battery? Also, if you want to test overcurrent protection with bolted faults, consider using two circuit breakers in series, so one doesn't close itself to a bolted fault (it damages circuit breakers through arc gap erosion). Keep up the great work. Nothing but good results from my Dakota Lithium 10Ah, I have two from 2016 and four new ones. Will run a capacity test on the old ones to see how they are getting along in lifecycle.
Thanks Jeremy for telling us like it is! I purchased a 12 amp hour Rebel last week Amazon didn't have it in stock so I ordered it from the Rebel web site on late Tuesday night and it arrived on Friday. Not bad service this time. I appreciate what you do for us. Your video helped with my decision to purchase that battery. It fits my needs perfect.
YOUR WRONG. How can you test short circuit protection using wire so thin? That’s like 24 gauge, It’s TOO SMALL. The resistance is way too high on such a small cable, the battery thinks it’s just a brief high load, not a dead short.
The currant output on Dakota lithium batteries surpasses all others, they are known for this. that’s why they have a beefier bms than any other. And require a short with very low resistance so it can sense a short from a high draw load. I’ve used Dakota lithium batteries for high current applications such as charging capacitors, and running extremely large brushless motors. I’ve even first hand shorted them out with 1 gauge wire and had the bms trip to protect the pack. THESE HAVE SHORT CIRCUIT PROTECTION. You can even see the big ass mosfets that do that switching in this video!
This is why I love Dakota lithium batteries. They’re bms is designed for the cells they use in they’re packs. Your “Amped” battery uses a generic off the shelf bms that trips it off immediately when it detects any load higher than it’s rating. Dakota lithium bms’s know the cells they’re running, they know the current output characteristics, it knows the cells, the wiring, the mosfets on the board can handle a 3 second spike of a hundred amps.
You need to redo this test. You need bigger conductors for the short circuit, at least the size of the main conductors inside the battery, and you need to hold that short for a few seconds at least, not freak out and jump back continuously like we see here. Use a starter contractor if you don’t want to touch the wires together.
If anything this is a win for Dakota Lithium. This just shows that they’re battery is capable of actually replacing lead acid counterparts. This battery dimension in particular is used in multiple high drain applications, like portable jump starters and mobility scooters, they can have current spikes up to 200amps. Good to see Dakota lithium’s battery can foot the bill without tripping. Can’t believe you recommend this amped battery that trips at under 1c.
In a world of mis- information I appreciate your honest reviews of the batteries you test. No matter who makes the battery you just tell it like it is! I'm a big Amped Outdoors fan, but they are not perfect either as you pointed out. Keep your videos rolling as I enjoy them and I know they help others decide which battery fits their needs. Thanks.
Thank you Paul, your comment made my day!
All i can say is i have owned this battery fir a year now and still blowns my mind i can run a 30lbs minkota trolling motor for 3 hours continious full speed. Fish all day stop and go in lower speeds last all day of fishing. Run my kids power wheels for days and also using to run my fish finder. Which led me to buy two more dakotas. Got a 60ah cranking-deep cycle and the little 10ah so i got three for each use on my livewell too last all day. Now the 60ah i fish all day my 55lbs trolling motor only use 20% of the capacity
Another great video. As a former ND resident of Grand Forks. I was proud of dakota lithium being regarded as the best lifepo4 batteries out there. My opinion is the short circuit protection and cold charge protections aren't necessary if you aren't a moron, but with as delicate and costly lifepo4 batteries are they are a good thing to have.
These videos have shown they're not so great even if they have the longest warranty available. For the cost of a dakota lithium they have no excuse producing batteries that don't live up to their claims. The competition has surpassed dakota lithium and I would avoid this brand all together even.
Which competition would you recommend?
This really bums me out. I am looking forward to buying a 12v 60amp for my 2015 Toyota Corolla S. Would you recommend that this battery is good, or should I just scrap the entire idea of using this type of battery to start my car, and radio, etc., when turned off at a park? $600 on sale is a lot of money to pay for junk -- one expects to get good stuff, tested, that works damnit. What do say? I look forward to your response, it will help many of us out here. Thanks in advance!!!
Can you tear down datoka 100ah and test
I have 3 Dakota Lithium 100ah batteries that failed when accidentally short circuited . The BMS failed and DL sent me 3 new batteries. A friend took them apart and the battery cells are fine. Will charge up to 14.5 volts. I would like to use them in a golf cart but would like to replace the BMS just for safety sake. Have you ever tore town a 100ah completely? We never went beyond removing the BMS and rebuilt the aluminum bridge between the 2 cells. There appears to be 4 cells total. Do these tear down more?
Can you recommend a BMS that I could use?
I guess I got lucky a couple years ago (TOTALLY by accident) and got the Amped Outdoors 30Ah on sale for $109 w/charger. I say lucky because it's the Amped Outdoors instead of one of the test failures you've shown us. Love your channel and what you're doing for all of us. There seems to be a quality control issue or just a flat out misrepresentation issue among some of the manufacturers of these type of batteries. What you're doing is saving the rest of us from voiding OUR warranties and helping us find the companies that do what they say they do. Thanks for that.
That's a hell of a deal!!! Thanks for watching!
28 year military veteran here. I definitely suffer from OCD because before I buy anything. I research the hell out of it. I have a list of possible batteries that I'm considering using in my boat. This is the middle of my research and Dakota batteries warranty of 11 years jumped out at me as a possibility. thank God for your videos because I have seen 3 out of 4 crap Dakota battery builds.......They just dropped to the bottom on my list of 5. Once again thank You Sir.
Did I miss the 30ah Amped review?? Thanks so much for making these videos! Much appreciated.
No, just have not gotten there yet.
Thanks for all your great info!
Man I fell ripped off I was about to order another one for my trolling motor. Dl recommended two to handle the amps. I put a fused 20 amp circuit breaker on it when running water snake 18lb. I up graded to minnkota 30 lb with same pwm and battey. I try to keep it under 20 because the bms is only 20amp. I think I am gonna order the power queen instead of another Dl 23. Any and all thoughts welcome. Thankyou for the video.
You’re testing it wrong. Think about what lithium capabilities are. A normal load is expected to be 1C with an instantaneous load of up to 3C. And you don’t want to trip SCP on a normal load, which means for a 60Ah, it needs to see a load of over 180A for 0.5s-1s before it classifies that load as a short circuit. Using that tiny wire will not handle 180A for 1s, it will catch fire, which you demonstrated quite well.
What we witnessed was a failure of the testing method! I see i’m not the first to mention this but nevertheless that was my thought.
Can you please review a Bioenno Power battery please? Teardown and all.
I have a 23ah Dakota and since I watched your video I placed a 3amp fuse to my fish finder. I also have a 36v 63ah trolling battery. Have you tested it before?
Ummm... all this griping about SSP. What current is their SSP rated for? The reason I ask, is because many Dakota Lithium batteries are designed for high current discharge (starter batteries, etc.). Just because it blew tgrough your little wire doesn't mean "it's not protected"... it just means it's capable of discharging more than your little jumper can sustain.
Pls review the Anti-Gravity battery
I JUST BOUGHT 2 DAKOTA 12V 20AH BATTERIES I TEST SHORT CIRCUIT BMS MINE WORKED FINE
I'm a Dakota Lithium customer and I've always felt that it's a great company with a great product line. So I'm surprised by the results of your test. Has the company reached out to you with any comments after this test?
They immediately corrected the issue. I called them. They stand by their warranty. The terminals are especially good now.
@@popeyegordon No explanation of the issue and why it slipped through inspection/quality control? This does nothing to ease my mind.
@@rickss69 Then don't buy it. I rely on design more than reviews and past history. Lithium batteries are still a new industry. They continue to increase in capacity at a rate of 5% per year.
would love to see what an FVP power looks like, those battery are tiny compared to the other well known brands.
I treat lifepo4 batteries like a lead acid and fuse the positive lead. I also put hot glue on the terminals to prevent a metal object from shorting them and use an sae plug instead of the terminals to disconnect the battery from a load. The batteries I’m using are small ones with small loads, a heavy load you would need much bigger than an sae plug
I've had one of these for about a year. That sucks that the short circuit protection doesn't work, wish you had finished tearing it down as I was curious as to what was inside!
Yeah sorry, I was just so disappointed by the end of the video i didn't want to waste anymore time on it.
have you tested there 135ah battery they sell - would love to see how well those are built and what are used inside to fit 135ah in a small package -
Loved the video, thank you! Do you know anything about an IONIC Lithium Batteries? Have you ever tested one?
I tested a 12Ah Ionic. Was pretty surprised by what i found. Thanks for watching! th-cam.com/video/7zkmxIegRz8/w-d-xo.html
Tear down a Battery Tender battery. I’ve had one for 7 yrs in my Harley and was curious how if stacks up. Thanks
actually it sounds like it has short circuit protection but just not in the way you expect it should.
the buzz is the pulse width modulator limiting the current because if you connected a wire across the pack of cells it would be a much bigger spark and would have vaporized the clips.
I believe this is a cranking battery and is capable of 290 cca amps . Most likely you wold need to do the short test with proper cables. Perhaps….
I just bought this battery and your video has me concerned about my purchase. I reached out to customer service and they quickly replied: Thanks for reaching out. Yes, we have seen this video. The problem is that the tester is using a very small gauge wire to short the battery together. Because the battery can output 24 A max continuous, 60 A max pulse (
What size is the wire on your fish finder?
Tear down the rebel 24ah next! Just bought one
What is the best batteries do you recommend me for my mobility scooter
Dakota didn't impress me when I was looking to buy a 100Amp battery as it's totally made in China. Bought a Battle Born battery which is manufactured in Reno, Nevada. A disclaimer all lithium cells are made in China including Battle Borns but the big thing is they're put together with American workers here. I would like to see you test and review them. Thanks.
I would love to check out the Battle Born battery. The channel needs to grow some more to justify the cost.
@@iceholepower8012 Yeah it was $900 and that's with the internal heater so you can charge it below 32 degree's. I use it in hunting camp where it can dip to 0 degree's so the heater gives me the ability to charge it every day in freezing temps. You should check out their website about their construction of the batteries.
will it work with a trolling motor? I am a kayak angler looking to drop some weight.
54ah Test is next. Right?
As you say all batteries should have a fuse on them. Any chance you can recommend a video or instructions as to how to set this up? Recently bought a Marcum lithium shuttle and brute battery and would prefer to be as safe as possible.
Hey Benjamin, thanks for watching. I made a video about the importance of fusing power boxes. Basically you just need an inline fuse holder, put it right off the pos battery post, pop a fuse in and you're all set. th-cam.com/video/dLgYqO-3kMg/w-d-xo.html
@@iceholepower8012 Thanks a ton. Great videos.
Would love for you to review the Lossigy 200ah lithium Battery
Can you do a review on limitless lithium battery
Why does this battery switch itself off periodically and then need a 120v charger to switch it on again?
I just received this very battery from Amazon and it arrived dead (almost) reading 1.5 volts DC. Placed it on a Dakota charger for 4 hours and nothing. A $228.00 battery plus tax ! Thanks to Amazon Prime, it's going back tomorrow.
Thanks for your videos.
Here I thought you should go after DL for the power box copy...
Very thorough reviews. Wish everybody else gave a s### like you . As stated above, your information given from these reviews are invaluable. I own a few Dakota 10ah but mostly Ampd. Thanks for all you do with theses batteries. My eyes have been opened.
You need to try a bigger wire for the short circuit test. That wire will have to much resistance and burn up. You need like a 10 or 8 gauge wire
The wire to fish finders are not that big.
@@iceholepower8012 I guess it’s more the battery won’t think it’s a short unless it exceeds its output rating. I don’t think that little wire can flow more than what that battery can output which would be why it’s not triggering the short circuit protection
@@19254514099 Exceeding the output rating is not the short circuit protection, that would be the over current protection.
This battery is marketed for use with fish finders with small wires. The BMS should be sensitive enough to detect a short while using the wire size of the product that it is advertised to power. I have tested plenty of batteries with smaller fish finder size wires and the short circuit protection works in them.
@@iceholepower8012 I would think it’s a similar circuit. I would just think if that little wire can only flow maybe 20amps for the amount of time it was on there the battery would just see it as a load not a short. Just my $0.02
@@iceholepower8012 Every wire connected to a battery source needs a properly sized fuse. Use a small marine fuse panel to protect these individual wires the same way boats are wired up.
I'd like to see a review on the Zpro batteries
I was going to use Dakota 23AH batteries in my mobility scooter. Thanks for saving me from this fire hazard. I could have been burned alive.
WOW! I'm surprised. Not looking good for Dakota. Thank you for the video.
disappointing
What manufacturer/type battery would you recommend in 12v 1000CCA for a full size Farm tractor in northern VA
Please test amped outdoors 38 amp battery.
Think it would be better suited with a load bank, that you could see what exactly load it will take before cut off. I have a set of three Dakota 12 V hundred amp hour batteries in my golf cart right now and one disconnects under load way lower than it should… Emailed Dakota interested to see what the reply is. Thanks for your video.
What happened? Did Dakota Lithium reply and warranty your battery?
I saw two of these for sale. Craigslist $250 for both. Not a big fan of used electrical anything. Especially a marine battery.
What is your suggestion for a pre test.
I was looking at buying this battery, thanks for the video.
I was considering buying Dakota 12.8V 23AH batteries for my mobility scooter, but now that's no longer an option. Thanks for testing it.
I'm still considering the following 3 batteries for my scooter. If possible, please test and and disassemble the following 3 batteries that I am considering:
Amped Outdoor Tall Version 12.8V 30AH
Astro Lithium 12.8V 30AH
Relion RB20-X 12.8V 20AH (X series)
Astro has a much better warranty than Amped. Astro costs $10 more than Amped.
My scooter's onboard controller computer electrical specs/needs are:
Continuous current 14A (driving full throttle on level ground).
40A max current < 60 seconds (driving up steep ramps)
I believe most mobility scooters have inline fuses in the battery harness that you would be hooking up to this battery to protect you from a fire, should it somehow get shorted. I've been installing SLA batteries in mobility scooters for years and never popped a fuse yet. And we all know that SLA batteries sure don't have any short circuit protection!
@@randyinhawaii6310 @Randy in Hawaii SLA batteries are a different animal. Lithium (including LiFePo4) need a short circuit protection built into BMS for safety, IMO. Even if scooter has its own short circuit fuse.
I have the Ampoutdoors 30AH, what size fuse should I use, Thanks
What are you using it for?
@@iceholepower8012 Live Scope, 126sv and 106sv which are all fused individually using 7.5 amp fuses. I thought each different AH battery would have a amperage recommendation for fuse size or maximum fuse size
@@ernie9819 each battery has its own max current rating but the thing you are running off of them really determines the fuse size.
Do this test on a SOK battery 100amp. Thanks again
If the channel grows enough to justify the cost, I will dig into those bigger batteries.
Do a 100ah Dakota lithium next. Or an amped outdoors 100ah next.
The channel needs to grow a bit more to justify the cost of those bigger batteries. Thanks for watching!
@@iceholepower8012Have you started a petreon yet? If everyone who asked you to "please test X battery " chipped in $10, you'd be able to test and break down those batteries in no time.
Love to see the Dakota DL+ 12V 135
Now you got me worried. I have 2 54ah DL in series to my trolling motor.
It seems their quality does not match what they advertise. Sounds like I need to stay away from that brand. I bought a rebel battery after you tested it. Love it. Thanks for all your testing.
I am disappointed that they just have not had consistent quality. I think Rebel will be a great battery.
I just bought one and now I’m worried.
Should I return it or just be smart and use an inline fuse?…what would you do?
I would put an inline fuse on it for sure.
@@iceholepower8012 what size fuse would you run on it... I am going to be running a Garmin 1222 and Helix 9 off of it. Thanks
I literally just purchased one of these. Is there a way I can safely test the BMS in mine without damaging the battery? If it isn’t working I want to return it.
Rock and a hard spot there. Not really, if you intentionally short circuit it, you will void the warranty. You could put a inline fuse right off of the positive battery terminal or try and return it.
Create a bolted fault with a 60A circuit breaker and 4AWG wire. If the BMS fails to interrupt the current it is a manufacturing defect. Also put a fuse on every wire that leaves a battery.
I am sure there are better battery's them Amped but you have solid me on the Amped. Sorry my brother in law messed up my box but my battery is working just right. and as you subjected I did add a inline fuse for added safety.
Jeremy, have you tested and torn down any Roy Pow batterys?
I have, I tore down their 6Ah. Here is a link to that video. th-cam.com/video/mQQoYzrj3rY/w-d-xo.html
I'm happy I didn't buy that now because I started looking at Amped after you mentioned the price and it not being bad.
They are a good buy! Thanks for watching!
Is it possible that you are getting faulty batteries from Amazon or is Amazon just selling Dakota batteries for them kinda thing I know Amazon has knock off stuff labeled as the actual things in other categories of stuff
I have sold batteries on Amazon in the past and I don't think that is the issue.
@@iceholepower8012 ok just figured I'd ask since I've heard shady stuff happen with Amazon
I bought a tin of JSB pellets on Amazon last week. Everything looked good on the outside, but inside the pellets had some sort corrosion and the pellets had a lot of damage. JSB makes top of the line stuff, so the pellets I received were some sort of scam. I hope Amazon doesn't completely turn into Ebay.
Why not continue the breakdown? Construction is important! How about how to properly fuse a system?
Appreciated your voltage and amp draw video.
I have all ECO Worthy batteries in my bass boat. BPM works excellent. Check them out.
2 150 ah for my Ultrex. 1 100ah for 2 10” ultras and 1 9” Garmin 93sv.
Live scope 1 30 ah, 1 30ah Garmin 10” Ultra.
2024 Nitro Z
You probably have some automotive jumper cables handy. That would be the right tool for a proper BMS short circuit test. I know that you repeatedly say the typical application of your users has light gauge wire, but that’s an issue for choosing the appropriate fuse to match their wire capacity. If the battery is designed to produce a lot of current safely you need to test the BMS accordingly. I like your videos and approach in general but you’re off the mark defending your little jumper wire. It’s not able to properly test the BMS itself. I grew up on a farm making stuff work and wiring up irrigation pumps and the like. Eventually got an MSEE and probably learned about as much on the farm as in college. I’ve seen a few melted wires and blown some big fuses. I would use some high capacity jumper cables for that short circuit test, wear some protective gear, and do it outdoors.
Try a Lynac Lithium battery! Maybe the 30Ah!
I will add them to the list!
Little disappointed that I'm already using these inside my kid's electric dirtbike, shirt circuit protection was a consideration. But I am glad I saw this before I used Dakota for my next, very large project that I'm planning right now. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for another great test Jeremy! I'm bummed because I bought two of these last fall. They're working OK so far. Fingers crossed. Any chance you can test a reBel 50Ah?
I would like to crack open the reBel 50Ah, I think it will be a good one. but the channel needs to grow a bit more to justify the cost.
My 100 AMP Hour Dakota lithimum only went a few hours before something went haywire and the charger would show "green" and the battery as fully charged even thought it had been used for a few hours that day. Customer support has been non-existent. For $900 this has been a tough pill to swallow.
Please update this comment on how it worked out with Dakota, I'm in the market for a Lithium battery.
@@frankhunt5018 They sent me a new charger and that fixed the problem. it took them a bit to get around to me but they did. I'm willing to give them another chance. I suppose they're just overwhelmed with business right now.
Which battery would you recommend for a semi-tractor?
I have this battery so far so good. But I have fuse on everything.
I have this 23ah battery, and you confirmed that I have a piece of junk! It has never held charge for longer than 5 to 6 hrs, after a full night of charging. I am trying to get them to replace it, and so far DL just giving me the run around. That 11 yr warranty is crap. Honestly will not buy anymore DL Batteries, now that I have witnessed this!
Such a disappointment to see a "PREMIER" battery fail the simplest of tests!
You need real roadside jumper cable otherwise this review is a dud.
Dakota lithium made alot of money with great advertising, early to the market and over charging the consumer. Ive seen more than a few fail test and not be the best built options all while dakota charged extremely high prices.
Why does this battery switch itself off periodically and then need to use 120v to switch it on again?
Wow. I am disappointed, as I was looking at buying one of these. Based on your recommendations, I bought 12v 12ah reBel batteries. I am currently building a power box for it, with solar. You mention fusing a lot. I took out a fuse block and added an inline fuse instead. One question I have "When wiring my boxes, I use an SAE connector, and run it straight to the solar charge controller(SSC), so I plug the solar panel into it directly. My inline fuse is on the battery lead running from battery directly to the main power switch, then the main power switch is run to the SCC. Is this wired correctly?" Keep up the awesome vids. When you have small glo cups back in stock l'll order one. Thanks again.
I would say yes. As long as your fuse is between the battery and your first component. Thanks for watching!!
@@iceholepower8012, awesome man, thanks for putting my OCD at ease!🤣🤣🤣
You left 1 connected and just touched 1. leave it hooked up longer.
lame the bms failed but the cells were great but you can see the cells cause I quit?
Did you ask Dakota Lithium for a comment on this?
Viewers have asked them and never got a reply.
I got a reply:
Thanks for reaching out. Yes, we have seen this video. The problem is that the tester is using a very small gauge wire to short the battery together. Because the battery can output 24 A max continuous, 60 A max pulse (
Mike, thanks for the feedback from Dakota Lithium. I understand their point on why the wire melted however, that doesn't explain why this test showed over 2x the max pulse at 60 amps and short protection did not kick on. Additionally, I see nothing on their sight stating that smaller gauge wires not intended to carry up to 60 amps should be used on this battery. That's significant since may boat owners are unaware of the drawback ans battery design. If they were to wire something like a small pump for bait to this battery with small gauge wire and it shorts out without the battery short protection, that could be dangerous. Just my opinion, thanks.
Wow. So the way you do your short circuit test is dangerous on many levels. You should watch some of Will Prowses videos. The 23 amp DL battery has a 3 second surge of 60 amps. I'm guessing it will surge higher for a shorter amount of time. Shorting the wires together is NOT the way to do this. I suggest you use an inverter or some other way to load this battery and measure the current draw to find out at what the cut off current is. -Ray
Hi Ray. Thanks for watching! I think that you might think that the short circuit protection and the high load protection features of a BMS is the same thing. It's not. The BMS should detect the presence of a short circuit condition almost instantly and open the circuit. Where in a high current situation, the BMS should recognize a higher load than it was rated for and then open the circuit. My channel is geared towards anglers so with that in mind, DL heavily markets this battery to kayak fishermen and ice fisherman. Our fish finders typically have 20-16 AWG wire to connect them to a battery. In the test I went with the middle ground of an 18AWG wire to simulate a fish finder dead short. Will does not do the short circuit test in his videos but I have seen him do the high load test here and there. I'm not too concerned with the high load test because fish finders are low current devices. Will does the high load test because his audience is running their RV or in many cases, their houses on solar and batteries.
@@iceholepower8012 You're welcome. I just found your channel. What you say does makes perfect sense. I email DL to see what their response is. If you are interested is selling the battery you took apart I would like to do further testing. If not I may order one to test.
Sounds good. I actually keep the batteries that I teardown so I can compare them to other builds from the same company to determine if the build quality is consistent.
DO NOT buy the AMP outdoor. Dakota is the winner here. It shows us how wide of an application Dakota can deliver. Short protection almost redundant in these type of batteries. Dakota shows that their cells can resist a lot of heat before bursting. I am buying one today.
For fire protection, please put a fuse rated for your wire close to the battery terminal using thick wires. Fires are mostly started by low quality cell during charging. than from shorts. You might test for fires while charging.
For your information the co-owner of Dakota has admitted in a TH-cam response that Dakota BMS only provide internal cell protection and not external. Therefore you didn't test a "dud" BMS.
th-cam.com/video/vraRhNpEWcE/w-d-xo.html.
Keep up the good work. People should not be paying more for a product in the mistaken belief that they are buying quality. Thanks for helping to expose the lie.
You did test for short circuit wrong. Because you did it wrong you can be liable for incorrect results.
this are so over price.. you can make one way cheaper and more capacity
Thanks a lot for the video. I was about to buy this 23ah for my helix 9. Now I’d stay away from all these premium “American” brands like ND and battle born. There is no way to justify for that price.
Powerhouse Lithium
Overpriced i went with litime 300ah
So much wrong with this video/your testing. Im sorry man. Dakota lithium short circuit will absolutely work if you absolutely gave it a dead short other than with your "resistance wire" you're using lol. You gotta be kidding me man? I don't need a battery that cuts out during extreme surge load. If you're going to do a short circuit test, you gotta mean it. Wow. Understand wire gauge and resistance before you go messing around. As far as I'm concerned your other batteries failed the short circuit test because they cut out way too easily with your "resistance wire"
I have no problems with Dakota lithium maybe it’s you mister
That little wire you tried to short circuit the battery with will not consume more current than the battery can safely supply so was never going to make it trip. If it had tripped with that little wire the battery would be unable to provide any cranking power. You clearly don't understand how this works which in my book makes your review worthless.
WOW...with the price they charge and trying to position themselves as a premium product, you would think they'd have all the bases covered. Turns out Dakota is just more Chinese junk? That is incredibly disappointing.
When I started this video series, I expected them to be the gold standard. Just been a disappointment.
@@iceholepower8012 - If a guy could source the right components, including a quality BMS with true protection against short-circuit, high-temp, low-temp, along with high and low voltage, plus the cells, cases and other parts, you would probably go broke on the labor to put them together, because you couldn't sell them for what they're worth. 😕
@@jasonbroom7147 sounds like a good idea for a future video ;)
@@iceholepower8012 - Ya know what else it might be is a new DIY kit? A bit more involved, but I'm sure some guys would be interested.
I do have this battery. It just failed this weekend. I use it to drive my Garmin Echomap 94sv. When a company buys all their products from China, you are going to get crap. I’m done with them.
You have an 11 year warranty. Everything comes from China, duh!!
*I DOWNVOTED THIS VIDEO BECAUSE THERE WAS NO FOLLOWUP AFTER THE COMPANY BECAME AWARE OF THIS VIDEO.* They immediately fixed the short protection. I called them and they stand by their product.
They DO answer the phone during business hours. There is no point in a 'teardown'. Performance comes from the terminals and if you have no schematic you have no clue what you are seeing when you open it.
This video here definitely shows lots of bias. I really wish you could've taken a genuinely neutral stance and completed testing and teardown as it and all the others deserve. Shame
Why does this battery switch itself off periodically and then it needs to use 120v to switch it on again?