I can personally vouch for this as Archer played a fully formed demo cassette to my friend, Mark Dunn, and I when we briefly visited him in his flat on the Hagley Road in the early eighties. I didn't realise it at the time and just thought how brilliant the demo was. It was only after hearing "Come on Eileen" later, that I thought... hang on Rowland has completely stolen Archer's sound.
Paul, You have Rowlands own words of admission on this video he stole the entire arrangement and style and was threatened by Archers possible success without him at 1:29 and then his own half assed apology for not crediting Archer at 2:06. Big Jimmy must be full of it cause this is from a 2012 interview Kevin did: "help came when KEVIN ARCHER, who left Dexys to start his own band The Blue Ox Babes, GAVE ROWLAND A TAPE OF HIS NEW MATERIAL: folk-influenced pop driven by three violins and Motown-style piano. Inspired, ROWLAND POACHED ONE OF THE VIOLINISTS and adapted the sound for Dexys. He dressed the band as scruffy gypsies in dungarees, rechristened them with Irish names and told the brass section they needed to learn string instruments - quickly." www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/interview-dexys-kevin-rowland-one-day-i%E2%80%99m-going-to-soar.html Kevin Archer played with Kevin Rowland in the punk rock group The Killjoys originally, and in 1978 Rowland and Archer formed Dexys Midnight Runners. Kevin Archer was forced to used the name "Al" Archer because Kevin Rowland decided that the group was not big enough to accommodate two Kevins. Archer left the group in early 1981 and foolishly trusted Rowland with a tape copy of Archers new music project. Then in 1982 Too Rye Aye came out with a strangely familiar sound, style, and all the same instrument and singing style including the exact violinist Archer had worked with on the demo tape. The reason Rowland hasn't had the success since Too Rye Aye is because no one has dared to trust him again with any original quality demo tape or cd of their new material since then for him to use to make his own. As a longtime fan I think the whole thing is really sad but to blindly deny the truth of the facts makes the whole thing even worse. It literally drove Archer into an asylum for a while seeing Rowland succeed having stole with his original ideas and songwriting style, his hired musicians and even the signature singing style. I will give you Rowland had a stronger voice than Archer. But Archer still sang the same before, during and after Dexy's.
Didn't Kevin Rowland (Dexys) have a number one critically acclaimed album in 2012, which was not only a commercial success but top of the editorial pics (aka BBC album of 2012 and a whole host of others).
At the end of the day, Kevin Rowland is probably one of the best musicians in Britain. We all get our ideas from somewhere but come on no one does it better than KR with that distinct voice and attitude.
So sad, about time you let it go, the reason the BOB did not work is because they were not good enough, Dexys with Kevin voice were always better and as Big Jimmy said "He stole nothing and did not even hear the tape when he wrote the music" None of the bands that formed when they left Dexys had much success and that's because none of them had a front man like Kevin Rowland, he made it work by putting everything he had into it no matter what it cost him....
Claiming Rowland did it better means nothing. He couldn't do it at all without stealing the sound. I don't think sycophantic weirdos realize that this was a deliberate theft and that not every artist has to resort to that. Only the less talented, overly competitive or vindictive ones.
I can personally vouch for this as Archer played a fully formed demo cassette to my friend, Mark Dunn, and I when we briefly visited him in his flat on the Hagley Road in the early eighties. I didn't realise it at the time and just thought how brilliant the demo was. It was only after hearing "Come on Eileen" later, that I thought... hang on Rowland has completely stolen Archer's sound.
Paul,
You have Rowlands own words of admission on this video he stole the entire arrangement and style and was threatened by Archers possible success without him at 1:29 and then his own half assed apology for not crediting Archer at 2:06.
Big Jimmy must be full of it cause this is from a 2012 interview Kevin did:
"help came when KEVIN ARCHER, who left Dexys to start his own band The Blue Ox Babes, GAVE ROWLAND A TAPE OF HIS NEW MATERIAL: folk-influenced pop driven by three violins and Motown-style piano. Inspired, ROWLAND POACHED ONE OF THE VIOLINISTS and adapted the sound for Dexys. He dressed the band as scruffy gypsies in dungarees, rechristened them with Irish names and told the brass section they needed to learn string instruments - quickly."
www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/interview-dexys-kevin-rowland-one-day-i%E2%80%99m-going-to-soar.html
Kevin Archer played with Kevin Rowland in the punk rock group The Killjoys originally, and in 1978 Rowland and Archer formed Dexys Midnight Runners. Kevin Archer was forced to used the name "Al" Archer because Kevin Rowland decided that the group was not big enough to accommodate two Kevins. Archer left the group in early 1981 and foolishly trusted Rowland with a tape copy of Archers new music project. Then in 1982 Too Rye Aye came out with a strangely familiar sound, style, and all the same instrument and singing style including the exact violinist Archer had worked with on the demo tape.
The reason Rowland hasn't had the success since Too Rye Aye is because no one has dared to trust him again with any original quality demo tape or cd of their new material since then for him to use to make his own. As a longtime fan I think the whole thing is really sad but to blindly deny the truth of the facts makes the whole thing even worse. It literally drove Archer into an asylum for a while seeing Rowland succeed having stole with his original ideas and songwriting style, his hired musicians and even the signature singing style. I will give you Rowland had a stronger voice than Archer. But Archer still sang the same before, during and after Dexy's.
Didn't Kevin Rowland (Dexys) have a number one critically acclaimed album in 2012, which was not only a commercial success but top of the editorial pics (aka BBC album of 2012 and a whole host of others).
At the end of the day, Kevin Rowland is probably one of the best musicians in Britain. We all get our ideas from somewhere but come on no one does it better than KR with that distinct voice and attitude.
So sad, about time you let it go, the reason the BOB did not work is because they were not good enough, Dexys with Kevin voice were always better and as Big Jimmy said "He stole nothing and did not even hear the tape when he wrote the music" None of the bands that formed when they left Dexys had much success and that's because none of them had a front man like Kevin Rowland, he made it work by putting everything he had into it no matter what it cost him....
That's it exactly. The actual tunes and lyrics themselves from this period came from Kevin and Jim, and no one else.
Kevin Rowland has admitted he stole the style, but Dexy's did it better.
He took an idea and thought "hey i could do that better". No reason to be be bitter
Claiming Rowland did it better means nothing. He couldn't do it at all without stealing the sound.
I don't think sycophantic weirdos realize that this was a deliberate theft and that not every artist has to resort to that. Only the less talented, overly competitive or vindictive ones.