Chalamet's delivery during the conclave in the south was bloody magic. I found his charisma to be lacking up to that point...and I've become convinced that was on purpose.
The post water of life scene with Jessic is in my top 5 favorite scenes of all time. The drastic change in demeanor, his eyes, subtle scoffing, and menancing prowess. My god
He's a boy of 15 before then and has to portray the inner conflicts of the book more visually. His performance was always building a contrast into Emperor Muad'dib
I knew absolutely nothing about the cast going into the movie, as I largely am not interested in anything as much as the overall piece of art. I first thought they had cast him because he fit the "young heart-throb protagonist" archtype of actor, the kind you think is there moreso for being cute And then bam! I felt bamboozled, in only the best of ways
"Dune part 2 is exactly as long as it must be" I think Villeneuve said in an interview that there will be no Director's Cut. The theatrical version IS the director's cut and it is exactly what he wanted us to see.
I do think that a director's cut would be beneficial for the Dune universe though, given the sheer breadth of scale that it has. I would have liked to have seen Paul's mentat ability and how that allows him to filtre his prescience. I would have also liked the inclusion of Hawat in Part 2 and how his role was pivotal in the gladiatorial games and later in plotting within the Harkonnen's court. That said, the cinematic cut is sufficient but a director's cut is more than welcomed.
One of the rare movies where within a week of watching it I had to watch it again , and again (normally I wait a year.). So many aspects of it were great.
One extra thing I liked about Lady Margot's segment was showing that THE VOICE can be used seductively in addition to all the aggressive uses we see in parts 1 & 2.
If you consider yourself a sci-fi fan you owe to yourself to at least read the original novel, "Dune". It is a masterpiece. Personally, I believe it to be the single best sci-fi novel ever written. It was only on my sixth reading (over the years) when I stopped finding new things in it.
@@Sakyn4 I think you will be disappointed. The difference between them is night and day, and you will be disappointed in the films after reading them. How they got it so wrong is beyond me but they’ve turned the Fremen into some DEI-fest. Again the screenwriters have taken a great work(s) and ruined it. The Original Fremen were from North Africa and taken as slaves to various places in the Dune Galaxy planets. But if you know N Africa, then you’ll know that they don’t have black Africans there, or Egypt or Libya, or Tunisia or Morocco either.in addition , they have turned it into another females are stronger fest, and make out that their communities are run by acclimation, and it really wasn’t so. Do read the books but you’ll think much less of the films after you do.
Apparently Villeneuve is going to wait at least 3 years so the actors can age up a bit, and that should also give him more time rework the script. It’s going to be epic.
I felt the length of the first Dune, but never once in the second. The script was as compact as it could be. It was an experience I thought up again when the Lord of the Rings extended edition trilogy was rereleased in theaters this year, and I remember being grateful that the movies had NOT launched with the deleted scenes because *goddamn* were they unnecessary. The final cut was crisp and clean perfection. Kinda appropriate that two cinematic adaptation of two infamously wordy novels yielded such efficient writing!
I actually have to disagree with you there. I find it hard to go back to the theatrical cuts of LOTR because some of the deleted scenes add so much to the story. I think The Two Towers has the most unneeded guff added (Gimli’s post-Helm’s Deep scene is pointless and so is Pippin and Merry drinking the growth water). But Boromir’s flashback in Osgiliath is very moving, as is Theoden mourning his son (an unforgettable scene for me). Then in the Fellowship there is lots of added worldbuilding and landscape stuff which I just adore, even if it makes the story less tight as you say. But we do kinda need Saruman’s death scene so for me the extended version of Return of the King is essential. However I agree that for the most part the cinematic adaptions are insanely efficient in terms of what they achieve with the writing.
@@WrongIdeasChannel eh, the only scenes I'd personally fight for 1.) The fellowship in mirkwood, especially the pairs of legolas & gimli and Aragorn & Boromir bonding (though the latter was perhaps a little long). More interesting for legolas and gimli, imo, as Boromir gets plenty of pathos later 2.) Boromir's victory of osgiliath, especially as an emotional touchstone after the climax of the fellowship of the ring and the catalyst of faramir's decision 3.) Saruman at the beginning of return of the king, because of international treasure Christopher Lee The scene itself, though seemed to set up redundancies, as Saruman trying to turn Theoden and Aragorn (Rohan and Gondor) against one another is established in a later scene in theoden's hall and reinforced during the scenes of the army mustering. (Also for WHY he's still distrustful of Gondor after fighting alongside Aragon, well we know that the steward is EXACTLY the kind of person that would leave others out to dry!) His insecurity about his legacy is also established when he tells eowyn that it was Aragon, son of arathon, that saved their people at helm's deep. That's all he needs to set up for the greatest charge of the trilogy. And the palantir just being there I thought was kinda like the ring just you an abandoning golum in the narration of the first movie.
Dune mirrors how exactly geopolitics works now: Religion, technology, industrialization, colonization and war are all merely tools accessible to the powerful in their quest for dominance.
I truly hope that Denis Villeneuve finishes Dune Messiah and then starts Rendezvous With Rama. A movie adaptation that Denis Villeneuve can and should do.
I went to see it 4 Times and wish i could have gone more. Everytime i liked it more and knowing i Will Never get to see it for the first Time again genuienly Makes me sad.
Good movie but it was so devastating sitting in the theater slowly realizing that Thufir Hawat had been completely cut. Hawatheads such as myself lost big time in this movie 😔
In terms of pacing, I actually had the thought that this movie should have been split into 2 movies. And thus you could have added 20 min before and 20 min after re-uniting with Gurney. We needed the the romance to be made more meaningful, thus making the betrayal hurt more. And we needed the lead up to the final battle to raise the tension more.
You could argue that the book should've been turned into 4 movies, given what else was cut. Gotta stop somewhere, and distill the plot down to the essence of it. The same complaint came up when the LoTR movies came out
It was long, yet it seemed not long enough. It seemed almost as if the narrative was unfolding more or less by numbers. I also question the writing changes on Chani. Visually it was remarkable, I liked the final battle with the worms.
I think they changed Chani to make the theme of the story more explicit. It's easy to read the story as a straight hero's journey (which the Lynch movie does) instead of a warning about following charismatic leaders. Herbert actually wrote Dune: Messiah because he felt like the first book failed to adequately convey the theme. I fully agree about the length. Going from the Lisan al Gaib speech directly the the climactic battle was a bit jarring. . I would have liked a few scenes of the Harkonnen's being utterly annihilated by the unified Fremen army before the Emperor is forced to intervene.
It’s a cinematic triumph for sure. I’d even argue better than any epic fantasy/sci-fi yet. I’m still skeptical the Hollywood ivory tower will recognise a science fiction film for best picture. They basically had to for LOTR - ROTK just given the scale of the trilogy as a whole. Maybe they’ll award it after Messiah though I don’t know. Anyway… it’s just one award which to me is not important. I have a “shelf” system for films and Dune Is top shelf… whether some committee gives their limited one single film award to Dune doesn’t really bother me.
Agreed, infact that’s why I think the (hopeful) win is so interesting, because it’s not the sort of film recognised as worthy of the Best Picture anymore. Go back to the 1960s and its equivalent would be.
I’m well into double figures watching part 1, part 2 about 8 times now, I’ve yet to get bored of it, (which is something I’ve not experienced since a teenager watching Aliens twice the same day at the cinema, and over 100 times in total) Everything about it is virtually pitch perfect, the acting, the music, the visuals, the sets, the cinematography, the costume design. There’s something new to discover each time, your absolutely right about restraint compared to other sci-fi blockbusters, Oscar Isaac is the perfect example, his performances in Star Wars are total scenery chewing bombast, his Dune performance, nuanced, realistic, & believable.
Great points, Dune 2 was amazing albeit a little confusing at the end. I had a hard time grasping where things were taking place. I really hope this level of storytelling is used in the upcoming Harry Potter series on HBO. I get chills just thinking about it
Villaneuves only real flaw is his view on what characters say. Just as examples, in Blade Runner the most memorable scene is the "tears in rain" monologue, and in the thin red lines "only around people". Villaneuve is a masterful director who loves showing rather than telling the audience, but I often feel like I am missing out on these memorable quotes where a character can put out words that are worth remembering. And this is his style, he wants the composition to carry the story, I just think there is still room for both.
That seems to be true, though he makes the dialogue sound incredibly punchy and weighty. And I actually think he handles exposition incredibly well. Similar to George Lucas who has admitted that he uses dialogue as a sort of sound effect. Though there is one line that I remember very clearly from Dune 2: “I don’t care if you believe, I believe.”
@@WrongIdeasChannel Well, let me summarize it in Villaneuves own words. "I Don’t Remember Movies Because of a Good Line" and “Frankly, I Hate Dialogue. Dialogue Is For Theatre And Television". With that approach it is understandable that he takes the visual storytelling to another level, but imo cinema is about more than visual storytelling. Take another example like Ghost in the shell (not Villaneuve), the 2017 version is visually much better than the anime and also much longer, but it is much more hollow as they left out about 2 minutes of dialogue where the Kuze explains his desire to live and identity (say in the interrogation scene/when he is resurrected/summoned in a shell) and his early attempt to seek asylum at the diplomatic meeting. The questions he asks are what carries the entire plot and are what one remembers most, and in the real movie they just rip it out and make a 2 sentence summary in the end when it doesn't even matter to the plot anymore. But one can also circle back to Blade Runner where the original screen version had Harrison Ford do he "inner monologue" explaining the entire plot, which destroyed the entire movie. Ofc this depends on the movie, not all types of film have philosophical questions that need mono- or dialogues to lay out, but in films like Dune and Blade Runner the sci fi and power struggles are just stage props for the philosophical questions that lay underneath. So there is room for the one thing Villaneuve dreads most of all. ;)
not a huge fan of villeneuve's work, but i did love br2049. the quiet scenes in that movie did heavy lifting, where it failed in quite a few of his other works
He probably actually deleted them, given what he’s said about his process….i hope it’s not true though. Part of the reason he can make stuff like this for under $200 million is that there isn’t a load of reshoots and faffing about with 5 different endings like you get with Marvel films
I really preferred part 1 from a story perspective. I think part 2 fell in to the same old problem of trying to portray real deep internal struggles in too short a time, but still really really good and this is nit picking. I just always feel like those transitions are best met with a end and a beginning (Part 2 > Part 3). Still though, they together sit in my top 3 now, I don't think we need a 3rd though.
Fair enough, I think a 3rd movie could be brilliant as long as he brings in some new characters. I have never read that book but we’d need some more morally acceptable people to root for - it can’t all just be morally deprecated megalomaniacs.
@@WrongIdeasChannel I'm interested for sure. Wonder if they will go to the gene memory thing or whatever it was called. But would kinda like a different universe too.
I used that shot for the visual consistency. The Force Awakens does not have a huge problem with CGI sludge, especially in its first third, but Disney Star Wars as a whole most definitely is CGI sludge.
Well it's not like it has competition, at least till now. This we're my classmates and i discussing with My teacher and he has a point. You pick any of this five or ten last years' movies and put it against any of the 70s movies and they lose in comparison. Same with Dune. But yeah, probably it's gonna win this year, at least the academy it's still allergic to sci-fi movies
Great video man! Keep em coming! Love the style, voice and length. Such good insights into all aspects of the film. Cant wait to follow you to 1000X amount of subs. You are the lisan al gaib of cinematic reviews! Cheers
You can really tell in this comment section who has the read the books and who hasn't lol. Everyone I know who has read the books and understands the bigger picture looooves the movies. Villeneuve is doing a fantastic job imo.
Never did read them, but I definitely looove these movies (Dune 2 is just somehow better than Dune 1). Better I guess because now the struggle to survive begins, and the tension with first contact with the fremen.
It is interesting that the HELLO GRANDFATHER scene (where Paul sticks Baron like a pig) was one of the alternative futures from the book that Paul never fore-saw himself doing. So, what does this VAST CHANGE imply for incoming Dune Messiah?
I haven’t read Dune Messiah yet, I can only imagine it’s going to be much more controversial than Dune Part 2 for one audience (Dune fans) or another (regular movie goers)
Considering how messy and poorly structured the book is, I believe they will make multiple changes and perhaps let this work in canon as an alternative future vision come to light for Paul.
@zserbs2326 probably correct. The only stuff which is likely to stay the same are the themes, as well as the ending (since Villeneuve has stated that Messiah had one of his favorite endings ever).
@@Rauruatreides I recently re-read the book after Part 2 and feel it has good bones for a film script but feel they won’t follow much of plotting and character work the same as it’s way too on the nose with a lot of its themes. Chani is also setup in an alternate way right now too. Loved the ending too.
I have a feeling Dune 2 won't win, they're going to end up giving the Oscar to him for the next film Dune Messiah like they did to Peter Jackson as a reward for an overall great trilogy
dune messiah is not the best in the "paul duology" (they aren't 3 book so i can't say is a trilogy) but maybe denis could fine a way to make it more interesting than a long game of thrones episode.
Great analysis. Denis Villeneuve is a great great artist. He is also very careful in using scale because he is saving something for the last movie. Because when Paul is the Emperor it has to be grand and also to show number of people for Holy War. The moment stayed with me is when Paul Atreides sits. He is terrifying and charismatic at the same time. Then and There I knew Timothée Chalamet is a genius actor.
Villeneuve needs to go all out with Dune Messiah. It needs to be epic and grand on a massive scale. A third movie equal to if not better than 1 and 2 will cement this trilogy of one of the all-time greats up there with LOTRs.
@@WrongIdeasChannel I’d love to see your thoughts on something like House of the Dragon, Fallout, The Boys/GenV, or even Berserk. I’m watching HOTD season one rn and the show does a great job of portraying an ineffectual and feeble leader that also wants to be a good parent, but acts too little too late. Writing is pretty good, dialogue has its ups and downs, imagery is chefs kiss
Season 1 of HOTD is truly fantastic. I’ll be watching season 2 soon, don’t want to pay for more than one month of subscription and I prefer to binge it. I’ve also watched Fallout but I didn’t have much to say about it, it seemed competently made and kinda fun on a 1st watch, but there are some huge holes with the plot - the first inkling of weirdness I got was with Lucy’s vault’s reaction to the raiders - they should all be traumatised as hell. I guess that’s not the tone they were going for but to me it felt super off.
@@WrongIdeasChannel very fair. I still have a few more episodes of Fallout to go, so my opinion is still subject to change. I’ve always thought of the FO universe to go 100% on the absurdist nature to push the story. Sometimes that ends up making some really fun things. I’m almost done the first season of HOTD and honestly think it’s captured the peak energy from GoT seasons 2-4. The king, Rhaenyra, Alicent, and Daemon are amazing characters
Movie is not a book. If you are gonna compare those two, compare every aspect. For example, very little was explained about the key players and overall story was simplified. If you are not gonna compare them, then the part 2, a movie on its own, a sequel, should be able to stand on its own legs, and when you take that movie as it is, then there are problems that emerge like poor character development, pacing problem.
Biggest restraint for me was the emperor scenes. I was expecting great halls for the emperor of the known universe, but instead a small garden and rooms from real locations in Italy and hungary. But it worked! (also a clever way to keep things within a budget)
Very good observation. It made the Emperor feel more relatable and perhaps a bit weaker than you’d expect, which I can imagine was very intentional. If the Emperor was in some sort of grand hall then Paul deposing him would be cast in a less morally dubious light
Always felt it was similar to the Wizard of Oz, you think this mythic figure is what’s at the end but it just turns out to be a guy, works with the cynicism of the whole story.
SPOILERS from the books: My only concern is how they depicted Chani at the end where she's upset about how the Fremen were being used by Jessica and then by Paul. Maybe I'm forgetting what happened in the books, but I remember that Chani supports Paul through everything, even if she's doubtful. Dune Messiah is a little bit of a mess but an integral part of the story is Paul's love for Chani and her place in his life. She remains the person who he can go to for peace and wisdom - this is where we see the value she brings to his life. Even if the producers let go of the other parts of the story, they wouldn't be able to bring back Duncan Idaho because Paul and Chani aren't together and Idaho is meant to be an example of how a ghola can become the real person for when Chani dies, and her death is also part (not the full) reason that he willingly walks out to the desert. Zendaya did too great a job of depicting absolute betrayal, confusion and hate on her face at the end. I can't see any version of events where movie-Chani forgives Paul.
One thing I'll say is that Villneuve has compared Paul to Michael Corleone from the Godfather, and how he will have to struggle to "regain his soul" so to speak. Idk how it exactly will work, but he has stated he knows exactly how he wants to end it now, so we'll have to wait for Dune 3/Messiah to see for sure.
Zendaya never really pulled me out of the move (like Mila Kunis in that _Oz_ movie) but her face didn't have much dynamic range. I had my doubts about Chalamet as Paul, but he was quite good as it turned out. Zendaya expressed every emotion with great intensity, while Chalamet was able to maintain some nuance. Point being, she was was cast for some reasons outside the scope of her acting ability. Obviously, that happens all the time, but sometimes, directors can exert more control over who gets hired (Kubrick, and Nolen come to mind).
@@diyalectic52 I had the same concerns. But Paul in the movies does say (when talking about Chani) that she will understand and come back to his side, that he had “seen it”. So the movies do pronounce that she’ll return to him. But I agree that Chani could have been portrayed a little differently and with less outrage. It also took out one of THE BEST lines of the book, when Jessica comforts Chani at the end, saying “Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine-never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine-history will call us wives.”
Really? I enjoyed Dune 2 and the cinematography and soundtrack was great, but it fell just a little short for me. Now that is probably because I read the novels in 1975, have seen the movies and series, so there was no suspense and tension, it was too fast. I never felt there was any threat from the antagonists. In the grand scheme it felt more like the set up for the future story lines.
It would feel 'short' because it should have been a TEN PART MINI-SERIES Dune would be its own ten part, Dune 2 would be another ten part, Dune Messiah another ten parts. But it wouldn't be as good imho.
As someone immersed in the books I felt Villanueve on the same level for his regard and respect for the story. The movie is the work of a craftsman not just a tradesman.
I believe everything this man said, because its exactly what I wanted to hear! Also, Dune 1 and 2 are my favorite film of all time. Denis deserves his Oscar, and so do Chalamet and Butler. Hopefully this movie sweeps the Oscars next year.
My small nitpick with the second movie, is that the music was too quiet.. especially in the harkonnen arena, the music was just a hum.. listen to the spotify OST and you see on what you missed.
I’m so glad I saw this in imax. Packed cinema and everyone agreed to shut up and let the movie speak for itself. In a cheaper crappier theatre later on these two troglodytes were talking. Always go for the premium experience with films like this.
As for the music, my only complaint is that it feels like Dune 2 uses the female yell from the gom jabbar scene (you know the one i'm talking about) all the time and in places where it doesn't fit. Like when Paul stands infront of an army of fremen fighters before the nukes go off, like, the sound bite is iconic but damn it didn't fit at all.
It was a great movie. I love Denis Villeneuve's movies. I would agree the Water of Life scenes were a bit rushed. For me, it was his recovery that was too quick. No big deal though. I guess I would add that Christopher Walken wasn't the best choice. He seemed too much like himself.
All I know him from is memes. That did hurt the casting a tiny bit, and I can see why it was an oversight on Denis’ part, but he played the role excellently
in other time i would have say no since the academy is full of sell out, but since the academy right now is giving the oscar to the fan favorite movie right now (2022 with everything everywhere and 2023 with oppenhaimer) and not just a last minute oscar bait no one heard off. i think it has more changes now.
I never try to understand how Academy Awards decisions are made. So it won't surprise me if they hold off on the Best Picture or Best Director nods. (Even a failure to nominate for those two awards wouldn't shock me.) Indeed, as far as Dune goes, I suspect (with some sympathy) that it MAY still be seen as premature: the story hasn't yet been told in full (or at least as fully as the progressively ever weirder Dune universe of Frank Herbert's books allows). I expect the full tragic arc of at least Paul Atreides will need to be shown on film before we can collectively assess Villeneuve's Dune films. Both Parts 1 and 2 remain prologue...
It might become a franchise but nobody is going to watch the Dune spin off shows because of memberberries or mystery boxes - they will want to watch because these shows will have a similar vibe and quality to the films.
Great essay! And I`m a dunehead, so... you`re welcome :). Wonderful parallel wh DA about the ”realness” of the piece. I`m sad about some missing people (in both movies), but I understand the different medium. I kept hoping that, THIS TIME, I`d see a crucial verbal confrontation between Thufir Hawat and Lady Jessica (one of my favourite scenes in the book). It`s just a few pages, but one of the tensest moments. I suspect it was filmed in Part 1. She walks along a hallway, totally out of her BG control. Possibly, because a drunken Duncan had just called her a traitor, from a ”credible source” (Hawat). Ah well...What ended up on the screen is what you said. Also, the rushed thing - you nailed it, I heard it from people who hadn`t read the book, ”just” passionate moviegoers. I must admit I wanted some more excess in the big battle :)). LIke a Helm`s Deep-long type thing. As for Messiah, I can`t even begin to imagine. It`s kind of a footnote about ”the antihero”, but I don`t see a sprawling cinematic conclusion, unless it`s combined with Children of Dune (thereby giving Anya a lot to do). It would be feasible - the Syfy miniseries combined Messiah and Children in a 4.5 h movie. So, Denis being efficient, could manage a ROTK-grand finale. Paul`s story does not end with Messiah. Anyway, rant over - cheers from a new subscriber :)
Hey, thanks for subscribing 🌞 I was also a bit surprised by how short the battle was, but I think it would be hard to sustain such a long siege with the Fremen, who rely on surprise attacks. Also the morality is a bit more muddled in the final battle of Dune 2 than Helm’s Deep - we’re told that Paul has Harkonnen lineage and that he’s gone a bit mental with power, so the audience might be starting to suspect his heroism is being subsumed by his power lust by this time. Where in Helm’s Deep bonds between characters and races are formed and strengthened, in the attack on the Emperor bonds are broken.
@@WrongIdeasChannel Great and absolutely right point (I can also recite LOTR, btw, so :DDD). I selfishly wished for a bit more spectacle, you know, as one who sees the book in their mind come to life. I didn`t want to leave the world. Sure, it was ”just enough” in the economy of the movie, I know. Not to take anything -anything that was good - away from the other adaptations, but this 5 hour movie is perfection, for me, at least. You described it eloquently and simply: ”you were there”. I was there, I was ”alone” in that world, in a packed IMAX theater. Tried hard (and failed) to keep it together for the pals I went with :)). It just kept coming at me with all I hoped for it to be, And it`s somewhat of an anomaly! An arthouse sci-fi blockbuster? Have there been any others recently at this budget level? Well, except for the sadly underseen 2049. Now... wil I live to see God-Emperor on whatever screen? Let`s hope :))
I know Denis will deliver on Dune Messiah. No actor will want to turn him down, they will abandon projects to jump on board…I’m quite interested to see what he comes up with next in the meantime. I also had the experience of being totally ‘alone’ in the cinema, despite it being sold out and sitting with friends. It was just that insane. I had no idea that Feyd Rautha was going to enter the picture and wasn’t ready for the visual insanity of Geidi Prime. The only shame is that there isn’t an extended edition!
I´m a loyal follower of Villeneuve since Enemy and Sicario, both great movies. I agree with your analysis - there is not an ounce of fat to this adaption. And yet: I long for an extended version, just to prolong my stay on Dune. Also, some critics complain about a lack of emotion - considering the character of Chani, I do not agree - yet I would have wished for more inner feelings and thoughts, like Lynch and Herbert used for portraying the characters...
No, I think the movie focused way way too much on Chani's irritation, even when it made no sense for her to act like that. In the end she knew absolutely nothing about what was happening and why Paul made those choices. And it looked damn out of place when she alone out of everyone there was the "smart" one to figure out something. And it will be a wasted plot line, nothing like that happened in the books. Because who wouldn't follow the dude that actually proved that he can see the future? If I need to choose between that and probably certain death at the hands of Harkoners, it's not much of a choice.
@@Leonhart_93 She knew enough, and Paul had told her enough, that I found no issue with her character. The only other people who know Paul well are Gurney, Jessica and Stilgar, and they are never going to disagree with him. The story needed an audience surrogate for after Paul becomes a demigod and kind of an a**hole. I found this an issue in the book - by the end he was so powerful that he became unrelatable. And literally nobody in the Fremen was questioning him. We can't possible add the many challengers Paul has killed to prove his worth, nor are we shown his rise in the book in the two years snipped from the narrative, except in a few lines. I thought hers was one of the best changes.
@@squamish4244 I don't think the audience needed a surrogate, but her character was sacrificed on that altar. It was clear that he was not an angel in the books where there was no such surrogate. But he wasn't "evil", he just didn't have many choices. To me she looked like she had ZERO trust in Paul at any point, she never even tried to understand why he made the choices he made, she was simply convinced that he was no good. And no, Chani actually didn't know anything concrete, she had no idea what was going to happen at any point. There is no basis for her actions, as Paul did indeed proved that he knows the future. So why did she acted like that? She, the one who should have been on his side even when everyone would be against him.
Agreed, and she isn’t a girlboss, her successes are largely down to Paul’s initiative, she’s just highly capable at certain things but essentially a ‘normie’ in the presence of great minds like Paul, Jessica, the Reverend Mother etc
The academy would give any small and highly unpopular politicial and / or social drama Best Picture over a well crafted science fiction epic, sad and pathetic but true. I'm not saying that every blockbuster should win Best Picture but Dune could or even should be a real exception since Lord of the Rings in 2003/4. We rarely see such well executed cinematic experiences like these and therefore it should be appreciated properly.
Yes, I suppose Denis does use much restraint in his filmmaking but I feel he absolutely, yet subtly, lets loose with what strategic, simple details he shows on the screen. Other filmmakers seem to think they must overwhelm the viewer with visually over-detailed worlds whereas Denis shows just enough for observant, thoughtful viewers to fill in the blanks. To me, DUNE feels old... yet new... otherworldly... yet Earthly. When the Herald of the Change lands on Caladan, I saw the Imperial ship as a futuristic Spanish galleon disembarking on a colonial shore. The Imperial representatives appeared as merchants, clergy, scribes and soldiers that inhabited the historic ships I've read about. In the city of Arrakeen, I saw ancient Egypt, in the Fremen sietches I saw the temples of Petra. Kaitain, the Imperial homeworld, stands out because its cool, foresty "green-ness" contrasts against the warm colors of Arrakis... and Geidi Prime is almost devoid of color. When the Harkonnens attacked the sietch, the birds they torched made me feel that the Fremen had a symbiotic relationship with both animals and the planetary environment. In the faces of the Fremen, I saw not just European faces but African and Middle Eastern... peoples of the deserts of Earth. Many of the extras looked as if they could've been cast from Bedouin, Afghani or other ethnic peoples of the world. I've heard complaints that the Fremen, Chani in particular, were always scowling and looking hard; there's truth to that but they are also pragmatic warrior survivalists who must contend with occupying oppressors and a desert ecosystem that will kill them if they're not careful. It's as if critics don't see the scenes when the Fremen are laughing or otherwise being themselves when they are free to be so. I know that sandworms don't exist but the sound design, coupled with the CG, made them feel absolutely real. In Part 1, there the sandworm chases Jessica and Paul onto the rocks, the sound department took the time to make us hear the thumping of worm's internal biological processes. When the worm turns away from them, we hear the sounds of its external skin plates reacting to the animal's movement. Denis is letting loose here, providing detail that makes that worm absolutely real. DUNE Parts 1 and 2 offer a lot to viewers if only they would stop to really look at it.
That is a good point. The worlds shown so far in Dune feel very distinct from one another, far more distinct than some wacky overdone and overcrowded marvel planet. Thanks for watching.
I always have an issue recommending dune because part 1 is incredibly slow for the average movie goer, but once you watch part 2, many things click into place. I watched it during opening day on imax in the Middle East and you know the movie was good when not even once the locals didn’t pull out their phones (they usually go to the movies to open snapchat and do loud video calls)
I’m glad you managed to avoid that happening - and I’m glad our theatres aren’t so ‘enriched’ with the conversations of others yet. Dune needs a packed but silent theatre and it sounds like we both got one 🌝
Wrong Ideas: "Dune is exactly as long as it MUST be!" Another branching timeline where Denis Villeneuve cuts 40 shots: Wrong Ideas': "Dune is exactly as long as it MUST be!" Another branching timeline where Denis Villeneuve adds 20 more shots: Wrong Ideas": "Dune is exactly as long as it MUST be!"
@@Superjohnicusreturns People say 'this film is PERFECT, to cut anything or add anything would make it LESS PERFECT,' which is completely bullsh**. It's just idolization of a director.
@@Superjohnicusreturns Don't get me wrong, I love Dune 2, but people love to objectify their subjective beliefs about creative media to reward themselves for their knowledge of it..
I wasn’t a huge fan of Part 1. The score really took me out of the movie, and the pacing dragged. However, Part 2 is a masterpiece. This truly is the Empire of our generation. Can’t wait to see what he does with Messiah. I’m sure the story with have to change a bit to make a little more commercial for audiences. I’m here for it tho.
I think Dune part 1 is made much better by the way Villeneuve absolutely smashed it with part 2. Agree about the soundtrack - there is just too much of it and if you’re not watching in an imax it can be noticeable
Chalamet's delivery during the conclave in the south was bloody magic. I found his charisma to be lacking up to that point...and I've become convinced that was on purpose.
Yes, absolutely. Paul is not meant to be a Lancelot figure. He is a modest boy turned ambitious king.
The post water of life scene with Jessic is in my top 5 favorite scenes of all time. The drastic change in demeanor, his eyes, subtle scoffing, and menancing prowess. My god
He's a boy of 15 before then and has to portray the inner conflicts of the book more visually. His performance was always building a contrast into Emperor Muad'dib
I knew absolutely nothing about the cast going into the movie, as I largely am not interested in anything as much as the overall piece of art.
I first thought they had cast him because he fit the "young heart-throb protagonist" archtype of actor, the kind you think is there moreso for being cute
And then bam! I felt bamboozled, in only the best of ways
were viewers unfamiliar with Dune surprised by the "twist"? I read dune, so i wasnt surprised
I’ll confidently put my money on Dune receiving the Oscar for best picture. It truly sets the standard!
I'll bet you can bet on that these days, you can bet on anything. Just don't go losing money at my suggestion... 😅
Having too much Hans Zimmer in a movie is perhaps the best problem you could hope for.
LOL, cleaning coffee of monitors now.
i rewatched it in cinema and just after found this little gem here
Thanks for watching!
It's still in cinemas?
wtf? They got rid of dune part 2 in my theaters like months ago….
"Dune part 2 is exactly as long as it must be"
I think Villeneuve said in an interview that there will be no Director's Cut. The theatrical version IS the director's cut and it is exactly what he wanted us to see.
I do think that a director's cut would be beneficial for the Dune universe though, given the sheer breadth of scale that it has. I would have liked to have seen Paul's mentat ability and how that allows him to filtre his prescience. I would have also liked the inclusion of Hawat in Part 2 and how his role was pivotal in the gladiatorial games and later in plotting within the Harkonnen's court. That said, the cinematic cut is sufficient but a director's cut is more than welcomed.
Maybe Messiah will get one given how epic in scope it will need to be
One of the rare movies where within a week of watching it I had to watch it again , and again (normally I wait a year.). So many aspects of it were great.
One extra thing I liked about Lady Margot's segment was showing that THE VOICE can be used seductively in addition to all the aggressive uses we see in parts 1 & 2.
Good catch!
I haven’t read the books but the actors, the storytelling, the pacing. It’s all excellently executed.
If you consider yourself a sci-fi fan you owe to yourself to at least read the original novel, "Dune". It is a masterpiece. Personally, I believe it to be the single best sci-fi novel ever written. It was only on my sixth reading (over the years) when I stopped finding new things in it.
@@TheMrTact I will absolutely read the books.
@@Sakyn4I’m on god emperor, lots of books are like rollercoasters, they build up the first half and are hard to put down in the second.
@@Sakyn4 I think you will be disappointed. The difference between them is night and day, and you will be disappointed in the films after reading them. How they got it so wrong is beyond me but they’ve turned the Fremen into some DEI-fest. Again the screenwriters have taken a great work(s) and ruined it. The Original Fremen were from North Africa and taken as slaves to various places in the Dune Galaxy planets. But if you know N Africa, then you’ll know that they don’t have black Africans there, or Egypt or Libya, or Tunisia or Morocco either.in addition , they have turned it into another females are stronger fest, and make out that their communities are run by acclimation, and it really wasn’t so.
Do read the books but you’ll think much less of the films after you do.
@@Stevie-L-n8g but the weirdest part is, they made the 2 strongest female characters in the books weaker.
I rewatched it 4 times in theater and I recently just watched a marathon of Part 1 and 2 together in 4K Blu-ray. Amazing experience.
It is indeed
Excellent analysis. Couldn’t agree more. Looking forward to your next review.
Thanks :)
I loved this movie. I can't wait until the next Dune movie comes out in theaters.
Apparently Villeneuve is going to wait at least 3 years so the actors can age up a bit, and that should also give him more time rework the script. It’s going to be epic.
A brilliantly executed rendition. The general brevity of many scenes/story-lines imposes a need, a charge to learn more, much more...
I felt the length of the first Dune, but never once in the second. The script was as compact as it could be.
It was an experience I thought up again when the Lord of the Rings extended edition trilogy was rereleased in theaters this year, and I remember being grateful that the movies had NOT launched with the deleted scenes because *goddamn* were they unnecessary. The final cut was crisp and clean perfection.
Kinda appropriate that two cinematic adaptation of two infamously wordy novels yielded such efficient writing!
I actually have to disagree with you there. I find it hard to go back to the theatrical cuts of LOTR because some of the deleted scenes add so much to the story. I think The Two Towers has the most unneeded guff added (Gimli’s post-Helm’s Deep scene is pointless and so is Pippin and Merry drinking the growth water). But Boromir’s flashback in Osgiliath is very moving, as is Theoden mourning his son (an unforgettable scene for me).
Then in the Fellowship there is lots of added worldbuilding and landscape stuff which I just adore, even if it makes the story less tight as you say. But we do kinda need Saruman’s death scene so for me the extended version of Return of the King is essential. However I agree that for the most part the cinematic adaptions are insanely efficient in terms of what they achieve with the writing.
@@WrongIdeasChannel eh, the only scenes I'd personally fight for
1.) The fellowship in mirkwood, especially the pairs of legolas & gimli and Aragorn & Boromir bonding (though the latter was perhaps a little long).
More interesting for legolas and gimli, imo, as Boromir gets plenty of pathos later
2.) Boromir's victory of osgiliath, especially as an emotional touchstone after the climax of the fellowship of the ring and the catalyst of faramir's decision
3.) Saruman at the beginning of return of the king, because of international treasure Christopher Lee
The scene itself, though seemed to set up redundancies, as Saruman trying to turn Theoden and Aragorn (Rohan and Gondor) against one another is established in a later scene in theoden's hall and reinforced during the scenes of the army mustering. (Also for WHY he's still distrustful of Gondor after fighting alongside Aragon, well we know that the steward is EXACTLY the kind of person that would leave others out to dry!)
His insecurity about his legacy is also established when he tells eowyn that it was Aragon, son of arathon, that saved their people at helm's deep. That's all he needs to set up for the greatest charge of the trilogy.
And the palantir just being there I thought was kinda like the ring just you an abandoning golum in the narration of the first movie.
Dune mirrors how exactly geopolitics works now: Religion, technology, industrialization, colonization and war are all merely tools accessible to the powerful in their quest for dominance.
Spot on
I cant wait for Messiah and I hope it runs more like a stage play than an action film. Thanks for the thought provoking video.
Thanks for watching :)
I truly hope that Denis Villeneuve finishes Dune Messiah and then starts Rendezvous With Rama. A movie adaptation that Denis Villeneuve can and should do.
If studios and film maker took notes… they really could save cinema.
I went to see it 4 Times and wish i could have gone more. Everytime i liked it more and knowing i Will Never get to see it for the first Time again genuienly Makes me sad.
I know what you mean, but I’m hopeful that this film will inspire a ton of new filmmakers so follow in Villenueve’s footsteps
This was magnificent, and a worthy combination of sight, sound and insightul commentary worthy of the subject matter. Desert Power. Subscribed.
What an excellent comment to receive
The fact that they didn’t release the imax aspect ratio on dvd is criminal. It’s a completely different movie with the extended screen real estate
True but who has the right kind of tv for imax format?
@@WrongIdeasChannelTrue but even on a “regular” tv you get an extended picture vertically.
Good movie but it was so devastating sitting in the theater slowly realizing that Thufir Hawat had been completely cut. Hawatheads such as myself lost big time in this movie 😔
they completely skip that Paul is trained as a Mentat.
wow such an amazingly well thought out breakdown! Keep up the quality and keep going, you will make it big!
Very kind of you to say so. I will be uploading more
In terms of pacing, I actually had the thought that this movie should have been split into 2 movies. And thus you could have added 20 min before and 20 min after re-uniting with Gurney. We needed the the romance to be made more meaningful, thus making the betrayal hurt more. And we needed the lead up to the final battle to raise the tension more.
There is no betrayal...
I think he means Paul announcing betrothal to Irulan
I think you’re onto something there. 2 shorter movies with more buildup, for example explaining how they scout and ambush the mining crawlers.
You could argue that the book should've been turned into 4 movies, given what else was cut. Gotta stop somewhere, and distill the plot down to the essence of it. The same complaint came up when the LoTR movies came out
@@WrongIdeasChannel Yes exactly. Thank you for clarifying
You have a very good narration voice/style. Definitely deserve to become a lot more popular than 300+ subs!
Subbed!
Thanks. More on the way
Hear, hear!
It was long, yet it seemed not long enough. It seemed almost as if the narrative was unfolding more or less by numbers. I also question the writing changes on Chani. Visually it was remarkable, I liked the final battle with the worms.
Could have been longer, for sure. I would have liked just a bit more worldbuilding
i think in that atmosphere i could sit for 7 hours! When it eneded u want more .
I think they changed Chani to make the theme of the story more explicit. It's easy to read the story as a straight hero's journey (which the Lynch movie does) instead of a warning about following charismatic leaders. Herbert actually wrote Dune: Messiah because he felt like the first book failed to adequately convey the theme.
I fully agree about the length. Going from the Lisan al Gaib speech directly the the climactic battle was a bit jarring. . I would have liked a few scenes of the Harkonnen's being utterly annihilated by the unified Fremen army before the Emperor is forced to intervene.
I saw it 3 times in IMAX and have now watched it 5 times at home. Finally a movie that has matched The Matrix and I now have 2 favorite movies.
Worth every penny
This is the best blockbuster movie from a pure cinema standpoint since The Dark Knight. Love this movie
Villeneuve is ruthlessly brilliant in his decisionmaking. He is both a true Dune fan and a master filmmaker. Bless the Maker and His Water.
Fantastic breakdown of a brilliant movie.
Thank you! Hope you are well
Glad you liked both. Have a nice day
It’s a cinematic triumph for sure. I’d even argue better than any epic fantasy/sci-fi yet. I’m still skeptical the Hollywood ivory tower will recognise a science fiction film for best picture. They basically had to for LOTR - ROTK just given the scale of the trilogy as a whole. Maybe they’ll award it after Messiah though I don’t know. Anyway… it’s just one award which to me is not important. I have a “shelf” system for films and Dune Is top shelf… whether some committee gives their limited one single film award to Dune doesn’t really bother me.
Agreed, infact that’s why I think the (hopeful) win is so interesting, because it’s not the sort of film recognised as worthy of the Best Picture anymore. Go back to the 1960s and its equivalent would be.
I’m well into double figures watching part 1, part 2 about 8 times now, I’ve yet to get bored of it, (which is something I’ve not experienced since a teenager watching Aliens twice the same day at the cinema, and over 100 times in total)
Everything about it is virtually pitch perfect, the acting, the music, the visuals, the sets, the cinematography, the costume design. There’s something new to discover each time, your absolutely right about restraint compared to other sci-fi blockbusters, Oscar Isaac is the perfect example, his performances in Star Wars are total scenery chewing bombast, his Dune performance, nuanced, realistic, & believable.
He was perfect as Leto. You don’t forget his example and his leadership going into Part 2
How does this channel have only 594 subs??!! The script is flawless, the narrator utterly mesmerising (if it's AI there's no way of telling). Bravo!
Why Thankyou. More to come shortly: The Acolyte, Game of Thrones and/or Halo next, then LotR, Arcane, Snowpiercer and who knows what else.
One of the best on the subject I've seen. Very well done. Much.... restraint.
Ah, Thankyou. Haha
An eyelash from perfection.
Wonderfully put.
Great points, Dune 2 was amazing albeit a little confusing at the end. I had a hard time grasping where things were taking place.
I really hope this level of storytelling is used in the upcoming Harry Potter series on HBO. I get chills just thinking about it
Villaneuves only real flaw is his view on what characters say. Just as examples, in Blade Runner the most memorable scene is the "tears in rain" monologue, and in the thin red lines "only around people".
Villaneuve is a masterful director who loves showing rather than telling the audience, but I often feel like I am missing out on these memorable quotes where a character can put out words that are worth remembering. And this is his style, he wants the composition to carry the story, I just think there is still room for both.
That seems to be true, though he makes the dialogue sound incredibly punchy and weighty. And I actually think he handles exposition incredibly well. Similar to George Lucas who has admitted that he uses dialogue as a sort of sound effect. Though there is one line that I remember very clearly from Dune 2: “I don’t care if you believe, I believe.”
@@WrongIdeasChannel Well, let me summarize it in Villaneuves own words. "I Don’t Remember Movies Because of a Good Line" and “Frankly, I Hate Dialogue. Dialogue Is For Theatre And Television".
With that approach it is understandable that he takes the visual storytelling to another level, but imo cinema is about more than visual storytelling.
Take another example like Ghost in the shell (not Villaneuve), the 2017 version is visually much better than the anime and also much longer, but it is much more hollow as they left out about 2 minutes of dialogue where the Kuze explains his desire to live and identity (say in the interrogation scene/when he is resurrected/summoned in a shell) and his early attempt to seek asylum at the diplomatic meeting. The questions he asks are what carries the entire plot and are what one remembers most, and in the real movie they just rip it out and make a 2 sentence summary in the end when it doesn't even matter to the plot anymore.
But one can also circle back to Blade Runner where the original screen version had Harrison Ford do he "inner monologue" explaining the entire plot, which destroyed the entire movie.
Ofc this depends on the movie, not all types of film have philosophical questions that need mono- or dialogues to lay out, but in films like Dune and Blade Runner the sci fi and power struggles are just stage props for the philosophical questions that lay underneath. So there is room for the one thing Villaneuve dreads most of all. ;)
not a huge fan of villeneuve's work, but i did love br2049. the quiet scenes in that movie did heavy lifting, where it failed in quite a few of his other works
I honestly cant decide if the people in chat are 90% trolls or.. not?
It certainly seems that way…but all comments help the channel so 🌝
Watched it twice in the cinema, should have watched it thrice actually i hope it is re released 5 years from now or somethinf
I bet it will be re-released in cinema on IMAX before Dune Messiah is released.
I demand that the director releases all the deleted scenes. The fact that the director refuses to release all deleted scenes is outrageous.
He probably actually deleted them, given what he’s said about his process….i hope it’s not true though. Part of the reason he can make stuff like this for under $200 million is that there isn’t a load of reshoots and faffing about with 5 different endings like you get with Marvel films
An analysis video that’s actually an analysis, not a bunch of spoilers, nice job.
Cheers
Very interesting video, thanks !
Thankyou
This is my favorite film of the year no doubt but I don't give fuck about the Oscars anymore😂😂
Both the correct opinions 🕺🏻
0:25 what's the name of this documentary?
Planet Earth 2 ( I think)
I really preferred part 1 from a story perspective. I think part 2 fell in to the same old problem of trying to portray real deep internal struggles in too short a time, but still really really good and this is nit picking. I just always feel like those transitions are best met with a end and a beginning (Part 2 > Part 3). Still though, they together sit in my top 3 now, I don't think we need a 3rd though.
Fair enough, I think a 3rd movie could be brilliant as long as he brings in some new characters. I have never read that book but we’d need some more morally acceptable people to root for - it can’t all just be morally deprecated megalomaniacs.
@@WrongIdeasChannel I'm interested for sure. Wonder if they will go to the gene memory thing or whatever it was called. But would kinda like a different universe too.
Can I please know the music playing at the 8 min mark? Shazam doesnt know
It’s ’The Valley’ by Nicholas Britell, from Andor, pitched down by 3 semitones. For some reason it passed copyright on my Andor video but not here.
I watched this in theaters 6-7 times
Worth it
Really? On purpose?
That's just sad!
@@rocoe9019 thank you
@@mii481 yup. One of the best cinematic experiences in the last 2 decades, maybe 3. Besides, I enjoy supporting my local theaters
LOL 0:20 "CGI sludge" (uses a shot that might as well have been in Dune for the type and technical level of its CG and integration)
I used that shot for the visual consistency. The Force Awakens does not have a huge problem with CGI sludge, especially in its first third, but Disney Star Wars as a whole most definitely is CGI sludge.
Well it's not like it has competition, at least till now.
This we're my classmates and i discussing with My teacher and he has a point. You pick any of this five or ten last years' movies and put it against any of the 70s movies and they lose in comparison. Same with Dune. But yeah, probably it's gonna win this year, at least the academy it's still allergic to sci-fi movies
Great video man! Keep em coming! Love the style, voice and length. Such good insights into all aspects of the film. Cant wait to follow you to 1000X amount of subs. You are the lisan al gaib of cinematic reviews! Cheers
An insanely nice comment to receive. Thankyou sir
You can really tell in this comment section who has the read the books and who hasn't lol. Everyone I know who has read the books and understands the bigger picture looooves the movies. Villeneuve is doing a fantastic job imo.
You can tell they’re his favourite books…
One of if not the hardest books to recreate in movie form.
Never did read them, but I definitely looove these movies (Dune 2 is just somehow better than Dune 1). Better I guess because now the struggle to survive begins, and the tension with first contact with the fremen.
untrue. I hated Rebecca Ferguson's Jessica so much I almost didnt bother watching the second movie.
The fact that you only have 740 subs is criminal. You now have 741.
Haha, Thankyou!
This is an excellent breakdown! Thanks for making this.
Thanks for watching
It is interesting that the HELLO GRANDFATHER scene (where Paul sticks Baron like a pig) was one of the alternative futures from the book that Paul never fore-saw himself doing. So, what does this VAST CHANGE imply for incoming Dune Messiah?
I haven’t read Dune Messiah yet, I can only imagine it’s going to be much more controversial than Dune Part 2 for one audience (Dune fans) or another (regular movie goers)
Considering how messy and poorly structured the book is, I believe they will make multiple changes and perhaps let this work in canon as an alternative future vision come to light for Paul.
@zserbs2326 probably correct. The only stuff which is likely to stay the same are the themes, as well as the ending (since Villeneuve has stated that Messiah had one of his favorite endings ever).
@@Rauruatreides I recently re-read the book after Part 2 and feel it has good bones for a film script but feel they won’t follow much of plotting and character work the same as it’s way too on the nose with a lot of its themes. Chani is also setup in an alternate way right now too. Loved the ending too.
I have a feeling Dune 2 won't win, they're going to end up giving the Oscar to him for the next film Dune Messiah like they did to Peter Jackson as a reward for an overall great trilogy
Definitely their way of begrudgingly rewarding the epic storytelling that they seem to hate so much….if you make 3 films, they give in
dune messiah is not the best in the "paul duology" (they aren't 3 book so i can't say is a trilogy) but maybe denis could fine a way to make it more interesting than a long game of thrones episode.
Great analysis. Denis Villeneuve is a great great artist. He is also very careful in using scale because he is saving something for the last movie. Because when Paul is the Emperor it has to be grand and also to show number of people for Holy War. The moment stayed with me is when Paul Atreides sits. He is terrifying and charismatic at the same time. Then and There I knew Timothée Chalamet is a genius actor.
Villeneuve needs to go all out with Dune Messiah. It needs to be epic and grand on a massive scale. A third movie equal to if not better than 1 and 2 will cement this trilogy of one of the all-time greats up there with LOTRs.
@@JayzVeez Yes. I just cannot wait for 2026.
If it’s not at least 3 hours I’ll be salty
Love the use of a variation of the track Eulogy from Andor in this video!
Thanks…I had to pitch it down a tad to avoid the copyright and I have to say I like how it sounds in a lower register
why couldnt disney treat the star wars property like this
Because they don’t believe in hard work
@@WrongIdeasChannel Or let true fans (like Dennis and his old dream of one day make a Dune movie + respecting the lore) work behind the camera.
Algorithm came through BIG TIME. Can’t wait to see what else you come up with
Up next is The Acolyte. Will probably be a controversial video, to be honest. Thanks for the nice comment 🌝
@@WrongIdeasChannel I’d love to see your thoughts on something like House of the Dragon, Fallout, The Boys/GenV, or even Berserk. I’m watching HOTD season one rn and the show does a great job of portraying an ineffectual and feeble leader that also wants to be a good parent, but acts too little too late. Writing is pretty good, dialogue has its ups and downs, imagery is chefs kiss
Season 1 of HOTD is truly fantastic. I’ll be watching season 2 soon, don’t want to pay for more than one month of subscription and I prefer to binge it. I’ve also watched Fallout but I didn’t have much to say about it, it seemed competently made and kinda fun on a 1st watch, but there are some huge holes with the plot - the first inkling of weirdness I got was with Lucy’s vault’s reaction to the raiders - they should all be traumatised as hell. I guess that’s not the tone they were going for but to me it felt super off.
@@WrongIdeasChannel very fair. I still have a few more episodes of Fallout to go, so my opinion is still subject to change. I’ve always thought of the FO universe to go 100% on the absurdist nature to push the story. Sometimes that ends up making some really fun things.
I’m almost done the first season of HOTD and honestly think it’s captured the peak energy from GoT seasons 2-4. The king, Rhaenyra, Alicent, and Daemon are amazing characters
To be fair, Paul's decision and the pacing of the second part is also quite compressed and fast-paced in the book
Movie is not a book. If you are gonna compare those two, compare every aspect. For example, very little was explained about the key players and overall story was simplified. If you are not gonna compare them, then the part 2, a movie on its own, a sequel, should be able to stand on its own legs, and when you take that movie as it is, then there are problems that emerge like poor character development, pacing problem.
Biggest restraint for me was the emperor scenes. I was expecting great halls for the emperor of the known universe, but instead a small garden and rooms from real locations in Italy and hungary. But it worked! (also a clever way to keep things within a budget)
Very good observation. It made the Emperor feel more relatable and perhaps a bit weaker than you’d expect, which I can imagine was very intentional. If the Emperor was in some sort of grand hall then Paul deposing him would be cast in a less morally dubious light
Always felt it was similar to the Wizard of Oz, you think this mythic figure is what’s at the end but it just turns out to be a guy, works with the cynicism of the whole story.
SPOILERS from the books: My only concern is how they depicted Chani at the end where she's upset about how the Fremen were being used by Jessica and then by Paul. Maybe I'm forgetting what happened in the books, but I remember that Chani supports Paul through everything, even if she's doubtful. Dune Messiah is a little bit of a mess but an integral part of the story is Paul's love for Chani and her place in his life. She remains the person who he can go to for peace and wisdom - this is where we see the value she brings to his life. Even if the producers let go of the other parts of the story, they wouldn't be able to bring back Duncan Idaho because Paul and Chani aren't together and Idaho is meant to be an example of how a ghola can become the real person for when Chani dies, and her death is also part (not the full) reason that he willingly walks out to the desert. Zendaya did too great a job of depicting absolute betrayal, confusion and hate on her face at the end. I can't see any version of events where movie-Chani forgives Paul.
One thing I'll say is that Villneuve has compared Paul to Michael Corleone from the Godfather, and how he will have to struggle to "regain his soul" so to speak. Idk how it exactly will work, but he has stated he knows exactly how he wants to end it now, so we'll have to wait for Dune 3/Messiah to see for sure.
Zendaya never really pulled me out of the move (like Mila Kunis in that _Oz_ movie) but her face didn't have much dynamic range. I had my doubts about Chalamet as Paul, but he was quite good as it turned out. Zendaya expressed every emotion with great intensity, while Chalamet was able to maintain some nuance.
Point being, she was was cast for some reasons outside the scope of her acting ability. Obviously, that happens all the time, but sometimes, directors can exert more control over who gets hired (Kubrick, and Nolen come to mind).
@@diyalectic52 I had the same concerns. But Paul in the movies does say (when talking about Chani) that she will understand and come back to his side, that he had “seen it”. So the movies do pronounce that she’ll return to him.
But I agree that Chani could have been portrayed a little differently and with less outrage. It also took out one of THE BEST lines of the book, when Jessica comforts Chani at the end, saying “Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine-never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine-history will call us wives.”
The same thing is sorely missing in novels, of late.
Really? I enjoyed Dune 2 and the cinematography and soundtrack was great, but it fell just a little short for me. Now that is probably because I read the novels in 1975, have seen the movies and series, so there was no suspense and tension, it was too fast. I never felt there was any threat from the antagonists. In the grand scheme it felt more like the set up for the future story lines.
It would feel 'short' because it should have been a TEN PART MINI-SERIES Dune would be its own ten part, Dune 2 would be another ten part, Dune Messiah another ten parts. But it wouldn't be as good imho.
The spectacle, as smartly done as it is, is a huge part of Dune Part 2, and breaking it up like that would make it look so much cheaper
As someone immersed in the books I felt Villanueve on the same level for his regard and respect for the story. The movie is the work of a craftsman not just a tradesman.
Absolutely agree
7:04 music from Andor 🥰
Nicholas Britell
6:35 music from Gladiator aswell (also composed by Hans)
Fantastic analysis!
Thank you!
I believe everything this man said, because its exactly what I wanted to hear!
Also, Dune 1 and 2 are my favorite film of all time. Denis deserves his Oscar, and so do Chalamet and Butler. Hopefully this movie sweeps the Oscars next year.
We need the 4 hour extended edition stat
My small nitpick with the second movie, is that the music was too quiet.. especially in the harkonnen arena, the music was just a hum.. listen to the spotify OST and you see on what you missed.
There are many great tracks which didn’t make it into the soundtrack properly as well.
I felt the audio balance was perfect in IMAX. Haven’t watched it at home yet
I’m so glad I saw this in imax. Packed cinema and everyone agreed to shut up and let the movie speak for itself. In a cheaper crappier theatre later on these two troglodytes were talking. Always go for the premium experience with films like this.
I was 8 times in cinema and regret not one second.
Beautifully articulated.
And done so with.... restraint.
Thanks
Hah, why Thankyou
Good analysis. Solid reasoning.
Cheers!
Nicely done ❤
Thanks :)
@@WrongIdeasChannel No no, thank YOU kind Sir!
As for the music, my only complaint is that it feels like Dune 2 uses the female yell from the gom jabbar scene (you know the one i'm talking about) all the time and in places where it doesn't fit.
Like when Paul stands infront of an army of fremen fighters before the nukes go off, like, the sound bite is iconic but damn it didn't fit at all.
That should be a Bene Gesserit only theme, you could make the argument that he is part bene gesserit though
If that's your only complain then it explains way too much how good it is.
i agree it shouldve been a bit longer i hope messiah will take its time and have atleast a 3 hour runtime
It was a great movie. I love Denis Villeneuve's movies. I would agree the Water of Life scenes were a bit rushed. For me, it was his recovery that was too quick. No big deal though. I guess I would add that Christopher Walken wasn't the best choice. He seemed too much like himself.
Both quite true.
All I know him from is memes. That did hurt the casting a tiny bit, and I can see why it was an oversight on Denis’ part, but he played the role excellently
I dig the video but your audio mix is...less than ideal.
Yeah. I was too close to the mic and I’m still learning how to balance the levels
in other time i would have say no since the academy is full of sell out, but since the academy right now is giving the oscar to the fan favorite movie right now (2022 with everything everywhere and 2023 with oppenhaimer) and not just a last minute oscar bait no one heard off. i think it has more changes now.
They need to reward less pretentious picks because their viewership has tanked for mostly political reasons. Even the slap couldn’t save them.
A science fiction film has NEVER won Best Picture. I certainly hope Dune 2 changes that.
The oscars are bogus, not really about quality so who cares
Everything, Everywhere, All At Once won best picture last year.
And Dune Part Two is way better.
Everything, Everywhere All At Once is a good movie, but didn't deserve to win best picture.
I watched 4 times in IMAX!!!! I couldn’t get enough!!
I never try to understand how Academy Awards decisions are made. So it won't surprise me if they hold off on the Best Picture or Best Director nods. (Even a failure to nominate for those two awards wouldn't shock me.)
Indeed, as far as Dune goes, I suspect (with some sympathy) that it MAY still be seen as premature: the story hasn't yet been told in full (or at least as fully as the progressively ever weirder Dune universe of Frank Herbert's books allows).
I expect the full tragic arc of at least Paul Atreides will need to be shown on film before we can collectively assess Villeneuve's Dune films. Both Parts 1 and 2 remain prologue...
Masterful analysis. Sub’d
Thanks 🌞
"Dune is not a franchise" - that's about to change, isn't it? Aren't they making two TV shows already?
It might become a franchise but nobody is going to watch the Dune spin off shows because of memberberries or mystery boxes - they will want to watch because these shows will have a similar vibe and quality to the films.
@@WrongIdeasChannel Will they, though?
There's only one TV show, and it's a distant prequel made by HBO.
AND House of the Dragon season 1 was excellent apart from that one really crap girlboss moment. I haven’t started season 2 yet.
Well they’re not making ‘real housewives of Arrakeen’ yet so I’m hopeful
Great essay! And I`m a dunehead, so... you`re welcome :). Wonderful parallel wh DA about the ”realness” of the piece. I`m sad about some missing people (in both movies), but I understand the different medium. I kept hoping that, THIS TIME, I`d see a crucial verbal confrontation between Thufir Hawat and Lady Jessica (one of my favourite scenes in the book). It`s just a few pages, but one of the tensest moments. I suspect it was filmed in Part 1. She walks along a hallway, totally out of her BG control. Possibly, because a drunken Duncan had just called her a traitor, from a ”credible source” (Hawat). Ah well...What ended up on the screen is what you said. Also, the rushed thing - you nailed it, I heard it from people who hadn`t read the book, ”just” passionate moviegoers. I must admit I wanted some more excess in the big battle :)). LIke a Helm`s Deep-long type thing. As for Messiah, I can`t even begin to imagine. It`s kind of a footnote about ”the antihero”, but I don`t see a sprawling cinematic conclusion, unless it`s combined with Children of Dune (thereby giving Anya a lot to do). It would be feasible - the Syfy miniseries combined Messiah and Children in a 4.5 h movie. So, Denis being efficient, could manage a ROTK-grand finale. Paul`s story does not end with Messiah. Anyway, rant over - cheers from a new subscriber :)
Hey, thanks for subscribing 🌞 I was also a bit surprised by how short the battle was, but I think it would be hard to sustain such a long siege with the Fremen, who rely on surprise attacks. Also the morality is a bit more muddled in the final battle of Dune 2 than Helm’s Deep - we’re told that Paul has Harkonnen lineage and that he’s gone a bit mental with power, so the audience might be starting to suspect his heroism is being subsumed by his power lust by this time. Where in Helm’s Deep bonds between characters and races are formed and strengthened, in the attack on the Emperor bonds are broken.
@@WrongIdeasChannel Great and absolutely right point (I can also recite LOTR, btw, so :DDD). I selfishly wished for a bit more spectacle, you know, as one who sees the book in their mind come to life. I didn`t want to leave the world. Sure, it was ”just enough” in the economy of the movie, I know. Not to take anything -anything that was good - away from the other adaptations, but this 5 hour movie is perfection, for me, at least. You described it eloquently and simply: ”you were there”. I was there, I was ”alone” in that world, in a packed IMAX theater. Tried hard (and failed) to keep it together for the pals I went with :)). It just kept coming at me with all I hoped for it to be, And it`s somewhat of an anomaly! An arthouse sci-fi blockbuster? Have there been any others recently at this budget level? Well, except for the sadly underseen 2049. Now... wil I live to see God-Emperor on whatever screen? Let`s hope :))
I know Denis will deliver on Dune Messiah. No actor will want to turn him down, they will abandon projects to jump on board…I’m quite interested to see what he comes up with next in the meantime. I also had the experience of being totally ‘alone’ in the cinema, despite it being sold out and sitting with friends. It was just that insane. I had no idea that Feyd Rautha was going to enter the picture and wasn’t ready for the visual insanity of Geidi Prime. The only shame is that there isn’t an extended edition!
Unreal
review fresh
I hope so I hope Denis Timothee & Rebecca do also at least be nominated
Rebecca????
Idk if it WILL, but i certainly hope it does. If Return of the King (a somewhat flawed, albeit still amazing movie) can win, then maybe Dune 2 can.
Interested to hear what you think the flaws are - for me it’s the Eagles, the Army of the Dead and Saruman’s death being cut from the theatrical
Kathleen Kennedy and Leslye Headland could learn from this masterpiece
If only…..They simply do not have the capacity for creativity
Acolyte video coming next 🌞
I've seen it in Imax, I haven't seen an experience as mesmerizing as this one in a long time (beside Oppenheimer maybe) great video
Yep. Also saw in iMax, and well worth it. It was complete immersion, and the sound was just insane
Dune 2 will win best picture b/c the other movies sucked.
Also true. I’ve heard Furiosa was actually pretty good but to me it looks like a very expensive music video.
I´m a loyal follower of Villeneuve since Enemy and Sicario, both great movies. I agree with your analysis - there is not an ounce of fat to this adaption. And yet: I long for an extended version, just to prolong my stay on Dune.
Also, some critics complain about a lack of emotion - considering the character of Chani, I do not agree - yet I would have wished for more inner feelings and thoughts, like Lynch and Herbert used for portraying the characters...
No, I think the movie focused way way too much on Chani's irritation, even when it made no sense for her to act like that. In the end she knew absolutely nothing about what was happening and why Paul made those choices. And it looked damn out of place when she alone out of everyone there was the "smart" one to figure out something. And it will be a wasted plot line, nothing like that happened in the books.
Because who wouldn't follow the dude that actually proved that he can see the future? If I need to choose between that and probably certain death at the hands of Harkoners, it's not much of a choice.
@@Leonhart_93 She knew enough, and Paul had told her enough, that I found no issue with her character. The only other people who know Paul well are Gurney, Jessica and Stilgar, and they are never going to disagree with him. The story needed an audience surrogate for after Paul becomes a demigod and kind of an a**hole. I found this an issue in the book - by the end he was so powerful that he became unrelatable. And literally nobody in the Fremen was questioning him. We can't possible add the many challengers Paul has killed to prove his worth, nor are we shown his rise in the book in the two years snipped from the narrative, except in a few lines. I thought hers was one of the best changes.
@@squamish4244 I don't think the audience needed a surrogate, but her character was sacrificed on that altar.
It was clear that he was not an angel in the books where there was no such surrogate. But he wasn't "evil", he just didn't have many choices.
To me she looked like she had ZERO trust in Paul at any point, she never even tried to understand why he made the choices he made, she was simply convinced that he was no good.
And no, Chani actually didn't know anything concrete, she had no idea what was going to happen at any point. There is no basis for her actions, as Paul did indeed proved that he knows the future. So why did she acted like that?
She, the one who should have been on his side even when everyone would be against him.
Agreed, and she isn’t a girlboss, her successes are largely down to Paul’s initiative, she’s just highly capable at certain things but essentially a ‘normie’ in the presence of great minds like Paul, Jessica, the Reverend Mother etc
@@Leonhart_93 Dude, stop whining and posting the same sh*t on different comments. We got it the first time.
It should.
It won't. But it should.
Sci fi rarely wins these awards
True, but if this film doesn’t win best picture we should throw out the Oscars entirely…
The academy would give any small and highly unpopular politicial and / or social drama Best Picture over a well crafted science fiction epic, sad and pathetic but true.
I'm not saying that every blockbuster should win Best Picture but Dune could or even should be a real exception since Lord of the Rings in 2003/4. We rarely see such well executed cinematic experiences like these and therefore it should be appreciated properly.
Yes, I suppose Denis does use much restraint in his filmmaking but I feel he absolutely, yet subtly, lets loose with what strategic, simple details he shows on the screen. Other filmmakers seem to think they must overwhelm the viewer with visually over-detailed worlds whereas Denis shows just enough for observant, thoughtful viewers to fill in the blanks.
To me, DUNE feels old... yet new... otherworldly... yet Earthly. When the Herald of the Change lands on Caladan, I saw the Imperial ship as a futuristic Spanish galleon disembarking on a colonial shore. The Imperial representatives appeared as merchants, clergy, scribes and soldiers that inhabited the historic ships I've read about. In the city of Arrakeen, I saw ancient Egypt, in the Fremen sietches I saw the temples of Petra. Kaitain, the Imperial homeworld, stands out because its cool, foresty "green-ness" contrasts against the warm colors of Arrakis... and Geidi Prime is almost devoid of color.
When the Harkonnens attacked the sietch, the birds they torched made me feel that the Fremen had a symbiotic relationship with both animals and the planetary environment. In the faces of the Fremen, I saw not just European faces but African and Middle Eastern... peoples of the deserts of Earth. Many of the extras looked as if they could've been cast from Bedouin, Afghani or other ethnic peoples of the world. I've heard complaints that the Fremen, Chani in particular, were always scowling and looking hard; there's truth to that but they are also pragmatic warrior survivalists who must contend with occupying oppressors and a desert ecosystem that will kill them if they're not careful. It's as if critics don't see the scenes when the Fremen are laughing or otherwise being themselves when they are free to be so.
I know that sandworms don't exist but the sound design, coupled with the CG, made them feel absolutely real. In Part 1, there the sandworm chases Jessica and Paul onto the rocks, the sound department took the time to make us hear the thumping of worm's internal biological processes. When the worm turns away from them, we hear the sounds of its external skin plates reacting to the animal's movement. Denis is letting loose here, providing detail that makes that worm absolutely real.
DUNE Parts 1 and 2 offer a lot to viewers if only they would stop to really look at it.
That is a good point. The worlds shown so far in Dune feel very distinct from one another, far more distinct than some wacky overdone and overcrowded marvel planet. Thanks for watching.
Great video!!
Thanks :)
I always have an issue recommending dune because part 1 is incredibly slow for the average movie goer, but once you watch part 2, many things click into place.
I watched it during opening day on imax in the Middle East and you know the movie was good when not even once the locals didn’t pull out their phones (they usually go to the movies to open snapchat and do loud video calls)
I’m glad you managed to avoid that happening - and I’m glad our theatres aren’t so ‘enriched’ with the conversations of others yet. Dune needs a packed but silent theatre and it sounds like we both got one 🌝
Wrong Ideas: "Dune is exactly as long as it MUST be!"
Another branching timeline where Denis Villeneuve cuts 40 shots:
Wrong Ideas': "Dune is exactly as long as it MUST be!"
Another branching timeline where Denis Villeneuve adds 20 more shots:
Wrong Ideas": "Dune is exactly as long as it MUST be!"
Long man bad?
What?
@@Superjohnicusreturns People say 'this film is PERFECT, to cut anything or add anything would make it LESS PERFECT,' which is completely bullsh**. It's just idolization of a director.
@@Superjohnicusreturns Don't get me wrong, I love Dune 2, but people love to objectify their subjective beliefs about creative media to reward themselves for their knowledge of it..
Obviously nothing is perfect, this is taken for granted whenever anyone says ‘X is perfect’. Basic colloquial English
I wasn’t a huge fan of Part 1. The score really took me out of the movie, and the pacing dragged. However, Part 2 is a masterpiece. This truly is the Empire of our generation. Can’t wait to see what he does with Messiah. I’m sure the story with have to change a bit to make a little more commercial for audiences. I’m here for it tho.
I think Dune part 1 is made much better by the way Villeneuve absolutely smashed it with part 2. Agree about the soundtrack - there is just too much of it and if you’re not watching in an imax it can be noticeable
Oscar Worthy ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️✨💖Five Star 🌟
I cannot agree more.