Great analysis. Denis Villeneuve is a great great artist. He is also very careful in using scale because he is saving something for the last movie. Because when Paul is the Emperor it has to be grand and also to show number of people for Holy War. The moment stayed with me is when Paul Atreides sits. He is terrifying and charismatic at the same time. Then and There I knew Timothée Chalamet is a genius actor.
Villeneuve needs to go all out with Dune Messiah. It needs to be epic and grand on a massive scale. A third movie equal to if not better than 1 and 2 will cement this trilogy of one of the all-time greats up there with LOTRs.
It is interesting that the HELLO GRANDFATHER scene (where Paul sticks Baron like a pig) was one of the alternative futures from the book that Paul never fore-saw himself doing. So, what does this VAST CHANGE imply for incoming Dune Messiah?
I haven’t read Dune Messiah yet, I can only imagine it’s going to be much more controversial than Dune Part 2 for one audience (Dune fans) or another (regular movie goers)
Biggest restraint for me was the emperor scenes. I was expecting great halls for the emperor of the known universe, but instead a small garden and rooms from real locations in Italy and hungary. But it worked! (also a clever way to keep things within a budget)
Very good observation. It made the Emperor feel more relatable and perhaps a bit weaker than you’d expect, which I can imagine was very intentional. If the Emperor was in some sort of grand hall then Paul deposing him would be cast in a less morally dubious light
Great thoughts. It's making me reflect on how I speak and present myself. I realize my speech is often without 'restraint', and I give my words too much runtime. Must trim fat. Small side note: You have an incredible voice. Mic doesn't sound like it is capable of capturing it, though. Maybe a better condenser mic? You'll chill some spines.
0:43 More than that, if you know the books, you end up rooting for someone you know will be directly responsible for the horrible deaths of 61 billion people and the very culture he claims to want to liberate.
I think the film makes that quite plain: Paul sees that future even before drinking the Water of Life and refuses to leave for the south for that reason until Chani asks him to go south. That scene reminded me of the scene in the Iliad where Thetis (Achilles' mother) begs Zeus to do something because Achilles is refusing to fight. Zeus nods his head, and in Greek myth, when he does so, what he wills cannot be undone. Thetis did not know, of course, that what Zeus willed was the events that would lead to Achilles' death at Troy. Similarly, Chani does not realize what Paul's moving south will mean.
That's because in his place I would have probably done the same thing. He saw the possible futures and choose a narrow path that was less bad than the others. Make a choice, or a worse choice will be forced on you anyway.
@@Leonhart_93 He saw that the Jihad was inevitable only after drinking the Water of Life. Before that, he still hoped to evade it, even though it was already too late.
@@squamish4244 Yeah, I know. Who wouldn't have a hope for a better future, if you don't know the details of how it would go. Since I know what kind of person he was, I knew instantly that as bad as it looks it must be the best choice they have. But it's funny that Channi never saw it as that, she was absolutely convinced for some reason that it's the worst path or something 😂
Dune DESERVES the Best Picture award, but I am almost certain in won't receive it. It's probably considered far too "daring" in our current time where it doesn't push that many agendas like almost everything else.
I understand your cynicism. We've seen a lot this past decade. But I think Dune might see the same result as what happened to LOTR. First one got 4 oscars, The Two Towers only 2, and The Return of the King, a whopping eleven oscars. Celebrating the whole trilogy when it is finished.
The Oscars have certain rules about casting and diversity etc that Dune 2 might have broken which make it ineligible for some awards. Which would be pretty infuriating. As a cinematic experience it just cannot be topped this year, and the Oscars should be about celebrating the best cinematic experiences…right?
@johaarup Yup, I have seen too much to not be cynical about it at this point. @WrongIdeasChannel And YES, there are far too irrelevant many rules that have nothing to do with the quality of the movie, it's clear that the game is rigged now.
@WrongIdeasChannel I suppose. There is some hope that they have learned from past mistakes and are trying to make a less biased judgement. I am hoping that's going to happen, but just not too much as there is not trust there 😅
I´m a loyal follower of Villeneuve since Enemy and Sicario, both great movies. I agree with your analysis - there is not an ounce of fat to this adaption. And yet: I long for an extended version, just to prolong my stay on Dune. Also, some critics complain about a lack of emotion - considering the character of Chani, I do not agree - yet I would have wished for more inner feelings and thoughts, like Lynch and Herbert used for portraying the characters...
No, I think the movie focused way way too much on Chani's irritation, even when it made no sense for her to act like that. In the end she knew absolutely nothing about what was happening and why Paul made those choices. And it looked damn out of place when she alone out of everyone there was the "smart" one to figure out something. And it will be a wasted plot line, nothing like that happened in the books. Because who wouldn't follow the dude that actually proved that he can see the future? If I need to choose between that and probably certain death at the hands of Harkoners, it's not much of a choice.
@@Leonhart_93 She knew enough, and Paul had told her enough, that I found no issue with her character. The only other people who know Paul well are Gurney, Jessica and Stilgar, and they are never going to disagree with him. The story needed an audience surrogate for after Paul becomes a demigod and kind of an a**hole. I found this an issue in the book - by the end he was so powerful that he became unrelatable. And literally nobody in the Fremen was questioning him. We can't possible add the many challengers Paul has killed to prove his worth, nor are we shown his rise in the book in the two years snipped from the narrative, except in a few lines. I thought hers was one of the best changes.
@@squamish4244 I don't think the audience needed a surrogate, but her character was sacrificed on that altar. It was clear that he was not an angel in the books where there was no such surrogate. But he wasn't "evil", he just didn't have many choices. To me she looked like she had ZERO trust in Paul at any point, she never even tried to understand why he made the choices he made, she was simply convinced that he was no good. And no, Chani actually didn't know anything concrete, she had no idea what was going to happen at any point. There is no basis for her actions, as Paul did indeed proved that he knows the future. So why did she acted like that? She, the one who should have been on his side even when everyone would be against him.
Agreed, and she isn’t a girlboss, her successes are largely down to Paul’s initiative, she’s just highly capable at certain things but essentially a ‘normie’ in the presence of great minds like Paul, Jessica, the Reverend Mother etc
Really? I enjoyed Dune 2 and the cinematography and soundtrack was great, but it fell just a little short for me. Now that is probably because I read the novels in 1975, have seen the movies and series, so there was no suspense and tension, it was too fast. I never felt there was any threat from the antagonists. In the grand scheme it felt more like the set up for the future story lines.
It would feel 'short' because it should have been a TEN PART MINI-SERIES Dune would be its own ten part, Dune 2 would be another ten part, Dune Messiah another ten parts. But it wouldn't be as good imho.
I am now 10 audiobooks deep into Dune and Villenueve made changes for the better in everything except Chaney. They "girl-bossed" her. And honestly I don't know how he can go forward without greatly deviating from the source material. Her character would have to do a 180 in attitude.
He girl-bossed her for good reasons. First, just to get this out of the way, Herbert firmly established that Fremen women are also deadly warriors and a match for multiple Sardaukar. Second, as progressive as the book is for 1965, it still has only one woman with a major role. In the book Channi fades into the background, goes along with whatever Paul says and becomes, like a woman commented, "a piece of f*cking furniture". Girlboss = / = bad if done right. You're not complaining about the - what - six? - just plain bosses in this film. But more importantly, she is our POV character in the second half of the film. Once Paul drinks from the Water of Life, he becomes an unrecognizable demigod and also kind of an a**hole. The audience can't and doesn't want to see things from his perspective. Chani is the only character who knows him well besides Stilgar, Jessica and Gurney, and they are going to take Paul's side no matter what. While everyone else is blindly following Paul into the holy war, she's an effective counter to his vision. I found this to be a problem in the book as well - Paul became somewhat of an unrelatable and less interesting character once he went full cowbell with the prophet role. MINOR SPOILERS FOR DUNE MESSIAH If you have a fundamental problem with girlbosses, you are REALLY not going to like Alia. Denis will have to deviate massively from the source material to make Dune Messiah anyway. It is not cinematic and he will have to change a lot to make it interesting. The 2003 miniseries got around this problem by considering Dune Messiah and Children of Dune to be one story, which they really are, and combining them, and it worked out well. I also think Denis could use Chani to pull the same flip of POVs as this film, reversed. We first revisit Paul as a godlike kinda Space Hitler in Dune Messiah, and good luck getting us on his side then. The book was such a jarring shift of tone I was disgusted by Paul until he started to become sympathetic again in the second half after his blinding. So we might be seeing the story through Chani's eyes in the first half, and then Paul's in the second.
As someone who hasn’t read Dune Messiah I can’t comment on how much it will have to deviate, but I don’t think she’s that much of a girlboss. She ends up being forced to resurrect Paul against her wishes and she has nothing to say when Paul seeks Irulan’s hand in marriage. She’s a good fighter but I would argue Paul is much better (look at the spice harvester ambush, Paul does most of the work defending her while she takes the shot - and Paul beats Feyd meaning he is basically the best at knife combat in the universe).
@@WrongIdeasChannel It was a weird comment. Apparently any female character who is "tough girl who fights" is now a 'girlboss' and it is intended as a pejorative. But people who write like this see girlbosses everywhere. Dude bosses? Nary a comment.
@@squamish4244Right. There’s no reason for dudes like him to complain because Chani will end up back with Paul anyway. Paul’s visions of the Holy War in Part 1 show him and Chani together on Caladan. In Part 2 after taking the water of life Paul says she’ll come to understand. Denis Villeneuve has already proven he can write great female characters with movies like Sicario and Arrival. Yet they keep doubting his abilities.
i rewatched it in cinema and just after found this little gem here
Thanks for watching!
Great analysis. Denis Villeneuve is a great great artist. He is also very careful in using scale because he is saving something for the last movie. Because when Paul is the Emperor it has to be grand and also to show number of people for Holy War. The moment stayed with me is when Paul Atreides sits. He is terrifying and charismatic at the same time. Then and There I knew Timothée Chalamet is a genius actor.
Villeneuve needs to go all out with Dune Messiah. It needs to be epic and grand on a massive scale. A third movie equal to if not better than 1 and 2 will cement this trilogy of one of the all-time greats up there with LOTRs.
@@JayzVeez Yes. I just cannot wait for 2026.
If it’s not at least 3 hours I’ll be salty
An analysis video that’s actually an analysis, not a bunch of spoilers, nice job.
It is interesting that the HELLO GRANDFATHER scene (where Paul sticks Baron like a pig) was one of the alternative futures from the book that Paul never fore-saw himself doing. So, what does this VAST CHANGE imply for incoming Dune Messiah?
I haven’t read Dune Messiah yet, I can only imagine it’s going to be much more controversial than Dune Part 2 for one audience (Dune fans) or another (regular movie goers)
Biggest restraint for me was the emperor scenes. I was expecting great halls for the emperor of the known universe, but instead a small garden and rooms from real locations in Italy and hungary. But it worked! (also a clever way to keep things within a budget)
Very good observation. It made the Emperor feel more relatable and perhaps a bit weaker than you’d expect, which I can imagine was very intentional. If the Emperor was in some sort of grand hall then Paul deposing him would be cast in a less morally dubious light
Great thoughts. It's making me reflect on how I speak and present myself. I realize my speech is often without 'restraint', and I give my words too much runtime. Must trim fat.
Small side note: You have an incredible voice. Mic doesn't sound like it is capable of capturing it, though. Maybe a better condenser mic? You'll chill some spines.
0:43
More than that, if you know the books, you end up rooting for someone you know will be directly responsible for the horrible deaths of 61 billion people and the very culture he claims to want to liberate.
I think the film makes that quite plain: Paul sees that future even before drinking the Water of Life and refuses to leave for the south for that reason until Chani asks him to go south. That scene reminded me of the scene in the Iliad where Thetis (Achilles' mother) begs Zeus to do something because Achilles is refusing to fight. Zeus nods his head, and in Greek myth, when he does so, what he wills cannot be undone. Thetis did not know, of course, that what Zeus willed was the events that would lead to Achilles' death at Troy. Similarly, Chani does not realize what Paul's moving south will mean.
That's because in his place I would have probably done the same thing. He saw the possible futures and choose a narrow path that was less bad than the others. Make a choice, or a worse choice will be forced on you anyway.
@@Leonhart_93 He saw that the Jihad was inevitable only after drinking the Water of Life. Before that, he still hoped to evade it, even though it was already too late.
@@squamish4244 Yeah, I know. Who wouldn't have a hope for a better future, if you don't know the details of how it would go. Since I know what kind of person he was, I knew instantly that as bad as it looks it must be the best choice they have. But it's funny that Channi never saw it as that, she was absolutely convinced for some reason that it's the worst path or something 😂
Dune DESERVES the Best Picture award, but I am almost certain in won't receive it. It's probably considered far too "daring" in our current time where it doesn't push that many agendas like almost everything else.
I understand your cynicism. We've seen a lot this past decade. But I think Dune might see the same result as what happened to LOTR. First one got 4 oscars, The Two Towers only 2, and The Return of the King, a whopping eleven oscars. Celebrating the whole trilogy when it is finished.
The Oscars have certain rules about casting and diversity etc that Dune 2 might have broken which make it ineligible for some awards. Which would be pretty infuriating. As a cinematic experience it just cannot be topped this year, and the Oscars should be about celebrating the best cinematic experiences…right?
@johaarup Yup, I have seen too much to not be cynical about it at this point.
@WrongIdeasChannel And YES, there are far too irrelevant many rules that have nothing to do with the quality of the movie, it's clear that the game is rigged now.
Oppenheimer did win best picture for last did it not? I guess they could argue that being a period piece made it able to break the quotas
@WrongIdeasChannel I suppose. There is some hope that they have learned from past mistakes and are trying to make a less biased judgement. I am hoping that's going to happen, but just not too much as there is not trust there 😅
I cannot agree more.
I´m a loyal follower of Villeneuve since Enemy and Sicario, both great movies. I agree with your analysis - there is not an ounce of fat to this adaption. And yet: I long for an extended version, just to prolong my stay on Dune.
Also, some critics complain about a lack of emotion - considering the character of Chani, I do not agree - yet I would have wished for more inner feelings and thoughts, like Lynch and Herbert used for portraying the characters...
No, I think the movie focused way way too much on Chani's irritation, even when it made no sense for her to act like that. In the end she knew absolutely nothing about what was happening and why Paul made those choices. And it looked damn out of place when she alone out of everyone there was the "smart" one to figure out something. And it will be a wasted plot line, nothing like that happened in the books.
Because who wouldn't follow the dude that actually proved that he can see the future? If I need to choose between that and probably certain death at the hands of Harkoners, it's not much of a choice.
@@Leonhart_93 She knew enough, and Paul had told her enough, that I found no issue with her character. The only other people who know Paul well are Gurney, Jessica and Stilgar, and they are never going to disagree with him. The story needed an audience surrogate for after Paul becomes a demigod and kind of an a**hole. I found this an issue in the book - by the end he was so powerful that he became unrelatable. And literally nobody in the Fremen was questioning him. We can't possible add the many challengers Paul has killed to prove his worth, nor are we shown his rise in the book in the two years snipped from the narrative, except in a few lines. I thought hers was one of the best changes.
@@squamish4244 I don't think the audience needed a surrogate, but her character was sacrificed on that altar.
It was clear that he was not an angel in the books where there was no such surrogate. But he wasn't "evil", he just didn't have many choices.
To me she looked like she had ZERO trust in Paul at any point, she never even tried to understand why he made the choices he made, she was simply convinced that he was no good.
And no, Chani actually didn't know anything concrete, she had no idea what was going to happen at any point. There is no basis for her actions, as Paul did indeed proved that he knows the future. So why did she acted like that?
She, the one who should have been on his side even when everyone would be against him.
Agreed, and she isn’t a girlboss, her successes are largely down to Paul’s initiative, she’s just highly capable at certain things but essentially a ‘normie’ in the presence of great minds like Paul, Jessica, the Reverend Mother etc
@@Leonhart_93 Dude, stop whining and posting the same sh*t on different comments. We got it the first time.
Really? I enjoyed Dune 2 and the cinematography and soundtrack was great, but it fell just a little short for me. Now that is probably because I read the novels in 1975, have seen the movies and series, so there was no suspense and tension, it was too fast. I never felt there was any threat from the antagonists. In the grand scheme it felt more like the set up for the future story lines.
It would feel 'short' because it should have been a TEN PART MINI-SERIES Dune would be its own ten part, Dune 2 would be another ten part, Dune Messiah another ten parts. But it wouldn't be as good imho.
The spectacle, as smartly done as it is, is a huge part of Dune Part 2, and breaking it up like that would make it look so much cheaper
Masterful analysis. Sub’d
Thanks 🌞
Sci fi rarely wins these awards
I am now 10 audiobooks deep into Dune and Villenueve made changes for the better in everything except Chaney. They "girl-bossed" her. And honestly I don't know how he can go forward without greatly deviating from the source material. Her character would have to do a 180 in attitude.
It'll make for an interesting third film.
He girl-bossed her for good reasons. First, just to get this out of the way, Herbert firmly established that Fremen women are also deadly warriors and a match for multiple Sardaukar. Second, as progressive as the book is for 1965, it still has only one woman with a major role. In the book Channi fades into the background, goes along with whatever Paul says and becomes, like a woman commented, "a piece of f*cking furniture". Girlboss = / = bad if done right. You're not complaining about the - what - six? - just plain bosses in this film.
But more importantly, she is our POV character in the second half of the film. Once Paul drinks from the Water of Life, he becomes an unrecognizable demigod and also kind of an a**hole. The audience can't and doesn't want to see things from his perspective. Chani is the only character who knows him well besides Stilgar, Jessica and Gurney, and they are going to take Paul's side no matter what. While everyone else is blindly following Paul into the holy war, she's an effective counter to his vision.
I found this to be a problem in the book as well - Paul became somewhat of an unrelatable and less interesting character once he went full cowbell with the prophet role.
MINOR SPOILERS FOR DUNE MESSIAH
If you have a fundamental problem with girlbosses, you are REALLY not going to like Alia.
Denis will have to deviate massively from the source material to make Dune Messiah anyway. It is not cinematic and he will have to change a lot to make it interesting. The 2003 miniseries got around this problem by considering Dune Messiah and Children of Dune to be one story, which they really are, and combining them, and it worked out well. I also think Denis could use Chani to pull the same flip of POVs as this film, reversed. We first revisit Paul as a godlike kinda Space Hitler in Dune Messiah, and good luck getting us on his side then. The book was such a jarring shift of tone I was disgusted by Paul until he started to become sympathetic again in the second half after his blinding. So we might be seeing the story through Chani's eyes in the first half, and then Paul's in the second.
As someone who hasn’t read Dune Messiah I can’t comment on how much it will have to deviate, but I don’t think she’s that much of a girlboss. She ends up being forced to resurrect Paul against her wishes and she has nothing to say when Paul seeks Irulan’s hand in marriage. She’s a good fighter but I would argue Paul is much better (look at the spice harvester ambush, Paul does most of the work defending her while she takes the shot - and Paul beats Feyd meaning he is basically the best at knife combat in the universe).
@@WrongIdeasChannel It was a weird comment. Apparently any female character who is "tough girl who fights" is now a 'girlboss' and it is intended as a pejorative. But people who write like this see girlbosses everywhere. Dude bosses? Nary a comment.
@@squamish4244Right. There’s no reason for dudes like him to complain because Chani will end up back with Paul anyway.
Paul’s visions of the Holy War in Part 1 show him and Chani together on Caladan. In Part 2 after taking the water of life Paul says she’ll come to understand.
Denis Villeneuve has already proven he can write great female characters with movies like Sicario and Arrival. Yet they keep doubting his abilities.
This movie was so bad. Just read the book.
What are some movies that you like?