What WOMEN don't understand about CHIVALRY: damsels must be imprisoned before they can be rescued
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In today's day and age, I still encounter women who lament the decline of chivalry. To some extent, I can appreciate their complaint as the end of certain social niceties. However, what these ladies don't seem to appreciate is the extent to which the unfreedom of women served as the rationale for chivalric action, and that a damsel must first be locked up in a tower in order to be saved. Otherwise, the whole chivalric effort becomes a ridiculous farce.
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In today's day and age, I still encounter women who lament the decline of chivalry. To some extent, I can appreciate their complaint as the end of certain social niceties. However, what these ladies don't seem to appreciate is the extent to which the unfreedom of women served as the rationale for chivalric action, and that a damsel must first be locked up in a tower in order to be saved. Otherwise, the whole chivalric effort becomes a ridiculous farce.
Orion is a licensed psychologist in the state of California.
Podcast available of Spotify, Instagram, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts and others.
See the "About" tab for more information on donations and consultations.
Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com
I AM SORRY BUT ITS VERY OLDFASHIONED BUT I ADORE MEN WHO TREAT ME LIKE A QUEEN I FIND IT VERY LOVEING PROCTIVE AND VERY VERY VERY RESPECTFUL OF ME
A "damsel" is a young unmarried woman of noble birth, typically a "Princess". The Knight isn't rescuing a slave girl or tavern wench. No mere Knight could simply "rescue" a Princess and take her for his own. The Princess is not without agency, but rather she is in dire circumstances from which even her father the King and all his men cannot rescue her.
The Knight wins the honor of the Princess's hand by virtue of proving himself WORTHY. The task of defeating the Dragon is a metaphor for proving that worthiness: if a single Knight can defeat a dragon on his own, a feat even the all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't accomplish, the Knights worthiness is taken for granted.
Who decides whether the Knight is worthy? The Princess. The Princess is not the victim.
The Princess is the Judge.
This is an interesting take. Did you come up with this yourself or did you hear about it somewhere?
@@ikaros9727 It's my personal take, based on videos I'd listened to from Jordan Peterson back when he was brand new on the internet. One of the things he focuses on about the relationship between the sexes is that it's the women who choose (i.e., judge) the men and not the other way around, combined with his focus on the metaphor of dragon-slaying as symbolic of overcoming a significant challenge which makes one worthy.
The reason the Princess is often assessed as the victim is that the judging part is not explicit. The whole point is that the DRAGON is the ultimate over-the-top challenge. Anyone who would deem the Knight unworthy after having defeated it is a fool, and the Princess is no fool. Sadly, this has to be explained in detail for modern (feminist) audiences. The story was never a parallel to a caveman clubbing a woman over the head and dragging her to his cave. The story assumes "Courtly Love" as being generally understood, and thus it should be assumed that the Knight and the Princess express the utmost respect for each other.
Judging from other videos if his, I don't think he understands doing things for a woman out of love and honor,, and the woman loving him back.
I agree with what you said
He doesn't understand women
Finally someone who gets it
This desire for chivalry is but a modern day manifestation of entitlement syndrome where some women expect special treatment simply for existing. Special treatment for women is fine so long as it is EARNED and part of a relationship involving reciprocity. That is lost on too many women today.
I find it surprising that anyone male or female talks about chivalry in this day and age. I'm not confident that self-conscious revival of past conventions is going to ameliorate relations between the sexes, nor is it likely to be sustained for very long by very many people.
Reciprocity is fine, but when one always expects the other party to do a minimum of 50 percent of the work in the relationship, it is likely to fail. The transaction has become LEGALISTIC in nature. There is no GRACE in it, no GOODWILL,
no GENEROSITY, no reflection of godly love (AGAPE).
Better to sign a commercial contract with penalties for infractions.
Btw male concupiscence and sexually irresponsible behavior still lay a heavy burden upon women, and help account for the holocaust of abortion, along with
countless cases of psychological impairment.
Obviously I'm not advocating fake chivalry, just REINING IT IN. No man is God's gift to all women.
If he is God's gift to one woman so long as they both shall live, it is enough.
Jesus knows best.
And no one ever died of celibacy. (No, I'm not Catholic, and what Catholics call 'celibacy' is often nothing of the sort.)
I think women who do remain traditional do deserve the chivalric male partner. If she's willing to make those sacrifices for her hubby then they should.
I have also seen couples where women take up equal role and don't expect partner to be some chivalric hero.
Much like masculinity - there's a mix and its not all women. There's plenty of men who want the old traditonal roles back and lament women who dont, and also women who want traditional roles and those are who complain "there aren't any gentlemen left". Forward thinking women don't want doors open for them, and also happy to pay for their own dates - because they value a good career. I've dated both kind of women, so dont fall into the internet trap of massive generalisations.
@@Balloonbot
Yes, people do have differing tastes and expectations.
One aspect of male-female relationships which will never be 'out of date'
is marriage-----------an ordinance of God which is the foundation of the family, consequently of human society.
Unfortunately what we call 'dating' in modern times, if it becomes an end in itself rather than an avenue leading to marriage, is a very risky business.
Serial dating leads to all sorts of emotional hurt, abuse, unfaithfulness, and uncleanness.
At its worst it becomes a form of predation.
Not all men have chivalrous motives; they do not protect or respect, but exploit.
Who pays for dinner is not the central issue.
@@elinope4745
To a degree, attractiveness is in the mind of the beholder. Also physical attractiveness doesn't guarantee immunity from criticism of one's personality and character---------granted that the leash may be longer than average.
'Both better and worse' makes sense because of the commercial and sexual exploitation to which physically attractive people are often subjected.
But who gives ANYONE a 'right' to a different standard of moral conduct?
If anything, 'to whom much is given, [of him] much is required'.
Fortunately GOD determine s what behavior is right and wrong, and the Ten Commandments as interpreted by Jesus are define the standard.
We are called 'sinners' because we do not and cannot keep the standard, even when we approve it whole-heartedly.
Once in a customer's office, I held the door open for my contact, a woman with one arm. she stepped in front of me, opened the door herself, and gave me a dirty look. Later, she filed a complaint with my employer about something else. When I explained what had happened, my employer contacted her employer, who fired the woman. I felt that everyone in this scenario over -reacted. She could have simply stepped through he doorway, not filed a complaint, and both employers could have gone quietly.
If her employer fired her after that, there was probably a history of this sort of thing going on.
They did the right thing, that "lady" proved herself to be problematic and disruptive for the company by showing that she doesn't work well with others by not showing appreciation for her coworkers when they to what is necessary to work with each other and that she's willing to lie and put at risk her coworkers jobs and by extension the stability and efficiency of the company out of spite due to her ego and lack of control of her personal feelings.
They did the right thing, for all the reasons that AGM and Jeff Cauhape said. Moreover be happy that this happened, because if she hadn't been fired, she might have done it again to someone who didn't have a boss who believed them or couldn't prove themselves in a "he said, she said" situation.
She had it coming
@@magmat0585 you’re probably right. She just has trouble in her heart however getting fired will only reinforce her false perception of reality. she really needs is a normal relationship the opportunity to enjoy life like every other woman and man.
I don't even think about this. A very wise man once told me, "Life isn't fair," and most people will die alone." Nevertheless, we get up every day and keep going.
Manners should be genderless. If a man or woman is coming in behind me, I hold the door. It doesn't imply a helplessness on their part, it implies manners and empathy on my part. if you see someone struggling and can help them, do it. If you're struggling or someone holds the door open, don't feel entitled or let pride obstruct it, just be grateful and thank them. Manners: it's not a Male or female, young or old thing, it's a people thing, practice it and it'll take you further than intelligence, hard work, or looks ever will. Why? Because it's much more rare.
I think the example of chivalry is of men going out of the way to open a car door for a woman, which they won't do for a male friend sitting next to them. What you say is an example of manners.
I disagree, if you have no discernible disability you can hold the door for yourself.
What you actually want is people to normalize more submissive behaviors towards one another because it makes the recipient feel powerful. You are either submissive person yourself or a recipient who wants more
@@adonaiel-rohi2460 manners towards others isn't about submissive or dominant behavior, its about courtesy. Sounds like you're insecure about being kind to someone.
@@modickens1272 slave morality, the powerful don’t bow to the meek.
@@adonaiel-rohi2460 dude, quit making a big deal about holding a door open. Are you really that insecure? Think if you hold a door open you're weak? Grow a spine. You're weak if that's your test of strength.
"Otherwise it's completely ridiculous". that is 100% true. Women use the concept of chivalry to use men and extract their resources, mainly with men they don't want or isn't attracted to. And men still try to use chivalry to compensate for their lack of attractiveness
_" for their lack of __--attractiveness--__ $$$"_
@ThatsWhat-She. ehhhh debatable what is a real women anyways
I decided back in the 1970s, when I was in my twenties, what to do about this. Once I was going into a building with two sets of doors. A gentleman held the first door open for me, and I thanked him as I entered. At the second door, I was the one to hold the door open for him , saying, "Turn about is fair play". We both left smiling.
Its like racing going into the chicane corner, the first one in has to switch and comes out second when the turn reverses.
And that's how it should be... Today many women expect everything and give nothing in return... Then lie to take what they want but have not earned... Especially in divorce... Thank God never went down that road... Still lost my inheritance to my father's wife...
Youre a rarity. From personal experiemce, most women whom whine about "chivalry is dead" are young entitled women whom dont appreciate or notice the small acts of courtesy done for them.
And by young, I meam women under fifty.
Women: “I’m a strong, independent woman who doesn’t need a man and will never be submissive to a man.”
Also Women: “What ever happened to chivalry?”
ESSENTIAL STUPIDITY. | Thanks, for pointing out the essential contradiction of being a chick (a phoney grown-up woman) who wants it both ways.
@@marianotorrespico2975 Too many women these days have this mentality that they are simultaneously empowered and a victim but will change whichever status they are whenever it’s most convenient for them.
@@CdrChaos -- OLD CROOKEDNESS UNDER A NEW LABEL. | I have lived that immaturity in the workplace with women lawyers; a double standard, nothing more. Y'see, this version of "The Modern Woman" is easily bored by and with real life, and especially the details of real life, because they chose to ignore the wise counsel of the older women who already had sat on that bar stool.
The philosopher of narcissism, Profr.-Dr. Barry Manilow, summed it up best in the song "Copacabana" (1978) about the American Girl wanting to be "free" and have her pedestal, too.
@@CdrChaos AKA "Schroedinger's feminism".
Asking men to put in effort isn’t claiming we are victims. It shows commitment and effort and generosity - all very attractive traits
You can't demand "chivalry" while being "strong and independent."
Today I purposely held open doors for several women at my job and post office visit. Most were thankful, however one looked slightly baffled and another said "I'm sorry, I'm sorry".
“You can have one or you can have the other, but you can’t have both.” Geez. So real.
Thanks!
In modern society, chivalry isn't rewarded, and sometimes quite the opposite, it's penalized. So chivalry simply ceased to exist.
This is why I say it never really existed. Because the idea of chilvary most people have today is a man being kind to a lady just because, not to get something in return.
@@nunyabi5953 True. Otherwise men would open doors for men as well etc.
It makes sense how chivalry would be rooted in the past-reality of women having low autonomy and needing more things done for them. But there's also a primal masculine desire to provide /care /protect the feminine. As a woman who can very easily flex into my masculine (as I'm logical, direct, driven, and financially independent at my baseline), when the men I date open my doors and pay for dinner even after I offer to pay half, **heart eyes** ... There's something wildly attractive about a masculine person who can show up and say, "I got you" with their actions. This *always* softens me and allows me to step out of my own masculine and into my more feminine energy.
Main point: A man can still view a woman as his equal and genuinely want to protect, provide, and care for her--which can sometimes play out in the form of chivalry.
I see men being chivalrous to strangers ALL THE TIME. Just last week, at the eagles game in Philly, I swung my coat around me and was struggling for a second to get my arm in the hole (lol) and the man behind me leaned forward to help me. I was surprised, laughed at someone else noticing my struggle, smiled, and thanked him. Maybe that made me an imprisoned damsel in need of saving from my own spatially-challenged moment, but I really just think he was a kind man who saw me reaching for part of my jacket that wasn't actually there, and he decided to help.
I love men. ESPECIALLY when they show kindness and chivalry purely because they are good people.
Same as a fellow bi guy I want to make sure he has some emotional intelligence. When I date women I look for character as I assume you are already kind and have superior emotional intelligence over me
Here is a secret I learned? Intelligence is a universal gene we all crave regardless of gender. If you are smart and capable then I man would like that as you are at his level and can best be a compatible companion as a helper (not provider). Also can keep us on our feet 😂.
Men just don't want someone ordering us around as it's a turn off. I find it a turn off in my gay relationships too if I am the masculine but I do get girly with a hot alpha at least in bed 😂
Part of the reason it became unpopular with women was because most of the time a dude doing something nice for you is hi trying to gain sexual favor. When wen began t be taught this we began to turn down the help. Historically in all animal kingdoms males have reserved protection and sharing of resources for women they are sexually involved with. Almost all women everywhere are taught that if a man offers you anything turn it down if you aren’t romantically interested in him. I don’t understand why this is considered rude. To me what I’m actually doing is not leading him on. There are men out there who will do nice things for you just because but in my life experience they are very rare. It is very rare for people in general to go out of their way t help people for nothing in return. This is just how human relationships have always worked
@@nunyabi5953 I can agree that some of the time, maybe even more than 'some' of the time, people do nice things to gain something back from you, like sexual favors (especially in the context of large favors/gifts). Sure. I agree, it shouldn't be considered rude to turn down a favor. And yes, people prioritize their energy and resources on other humans they are in some sort of relation with. This makes absolute sense from a biological perspective. But humans can also have a beneficial physiological response when they do something nice for someone, even when they don't know them (studies have shown increases in serotonin, dopamine, and oxytocin). Men I don't know and will never see again move out of the way to let me walk through a crowded sidewalk before them, they open doors for me. I smile and say thank you (MAYBE one could argue they did it in hopes of feeling appreciated, which I'll always give appreciation for chivalry). People pay for the person behind them's coffee in the drive-through. I've done it too--kept the coffee-train going. When I look at my life experiences, these instances aren't rare at all. Maybe it's an awareness thing. We see what we look for, and I see kindness everywhere. There's also pain, anger, exhaustion, frustration, and misery--sure yea. And reciprocity is important in building strong human relationships. But chivalry, in my experience, is a kindness many strangers and the men in my life exercise on a regular basis.
A man offering chivalry in today's world to the 'modern, independent women' is just an idiot who can't think for himself and lacks options. These men want to 'nice' their way into relationships.
Ur main point sucks and it isn't true. Men don't view women as an equal. We view women as a vessel that needs to be protected for and provided for
Left out: the vast majority of men were also impoverished and restricted and chivalry was not expected from them.
Great
That was very nice and thought provoking. As it should be.
But, (there is always a but) you did not touch on the origins of the "Code of Chivalry". It was, I believe, originally from the knights who would: 1) Treat all enemies with respect. 2) never take unfair advantage of an opponent 3) Always give their opponent the chance to defend themselves. 4) Protect all those who were not able to protect themselves. 5) not take advantage of those who were weaker.
Obviously, there were some knights who paid lip service but did not follow this code.
So, the code of Chivalry STARTED as a code of conduct between the warriors. It did grow to include basic good manners towards everyone.
I look at chivalry as an example of a woman can expect from a guy. It’s about respect for me. I want to be respected by my woman, and I want to show her what that looks like.
I still love it when a man opens the door for me and lets me go first. I feel quite feminine in those moments and I radiate a very appreciative smiling face, I find it very sweet. Has to be the right time though, when Im already receptive to the beauty of the world and men and am slow enough to feel and recognise and respond in this way. If I'm too fast and got stuff to do, now, theres no opportunity for that to come about. I love it when a man makes decisions about small things on my behalf so I dot have to make decisions I can just go with the flow, therefor be more receptive to the beauty and the world, and the man I'm with. Its easier to be appreciative when you haven't had that for some time and you are used to doing everything yourself. And practice when in a relationship of course. But thats just me. Maybe there are women out there that couldn't stomach that or find it very difficult, I used to, and then there wasn't much room for my man, he didn't know where he stood. Twas a shame, but who knew what was going on. ...I was certainly not happy and stretched to my limits, and didnt know how to relax or trust. We didnt know how to repair the disconnect/ruptures that happened. So Orian (don't know the spelling) do you have any info on repairing ruptures? ...if you read this at all. Thats for your clips they resonate and are interesting to ponder :)
I think chivalrous actions can be seen as a form of investment and hence a predictor of future paternal investment in children.
Feminism was the death of chivalry.
It provided for women because women had “nothing of their own”? Women bring the most to the marriage. They bring homemaking skills and the ability to continue a family lineage. In nature the female is always the prize - the male is always the chaser and brings the show. Chivalry declined because industrialization has taken the sacred out of family and relationships. It’s surprising chivalry even existed given that agriculture reinforced the idea that
....enforced the idea that people are disposable.
Simp . The female is never the prize . The male brings most if not all the value to the relationship. Provision and protection . Change that weak mentality
@@carlosdixan112 protection? Is that why the government got everyone to mask their two year olds? Is that why we had WWII where men all across Europe and the US destroyed their families and countries for a few wealthy degenerate men? Maybe you’re talking something more abstract. I wish I had your imagination. I am a woman though. I had no idea I could be a “simp”. Very interesting. The things I wish I understood.
Bro is waffling out of his ass look at nature the male species is always superior in beauty and strength
Do they have the homemaking skills anymore and even when they have do they want to do them?
I really think you're overthinking this, and unnecessarily complicating it as a result. I get what you mean and it makes sense, but they're not talking about the literal definition of it when they say that, so you aren't addressing the same thing. They're basically just talking about small acts of kindness that makes them feel more feminine. Like a man helping to carry something heavy. Also, their statement of chivalry being dead is broad, but it's really just about their own experiences.
Yeah I agree with you here
why do you need a man to make you feel feminine?
Do they want to their end of the bargain anymore?
No what he says still applies. Women want to insist on being equal to men while demanding the services that inherently presuppose their inferiority.
I steer clear of people who are offended by chivalry, bet the same people won't be offended by a BDSM couple where one partner gets walked on a leash. To me chivalry is a kind of role-play, for those who feel at ease in the archetypal gender roles (which isn't everyone of course).
Exactly. Talk that ish doc. These modern women ain’t ish 👏🏼 👏🏼 stay up kings
These modern women out here, screaming for quality, and then want to act like a lady when it benefits them. They want their cake and eat it
You are a wise man.
Chivalry was NOT STABBING a Unconscious opponent.
It had NOTHING TO DO WITH WOMEN!!!
Women are talking about ROMANTIC IDEALISM!!
Yesterday I dated a feminist on egalitarian terms. There was no second date due to the lack of romance. In light of the above this tragic story I now appreciate as an instance of irony of our age.
Gold content, again!
A common rejoinder to this is that chivalry simply means being “nice” or “polite” or having “good manners”. But that’s not what it is. It means guys being *extra* nice, polite or well-mannered to women.
Thank you Dr for all the great content. Here you have mentioned that chivalry makes sense only if women are restricted and have limited options in the first place. You did not particularly pursue this line of thought... but it could perhaps be argued that many women might quite enjoy being controlled and restricted far more than in today's Western society. Warning: This line of thinking is unlikely to please the sponsors, advertisers, etc.
They don't want chivalry in exchange they want chivalry on top of everything else they receive and more lol
Perfect summary
3:29 Exactly lol. That's what Shrek showed us in one way.
Oofta! Where to begin? I am a subscriber to your channel, and I appreciate your pragmatic approach to coaching men into modern society...sans a lot of residual garbage that continues to linger.
As you've noted, the term chivalry comes from archaic French. The word literally translates to "cavalryman" or mounted warrior. From the old French word "cavalryman" we get other words in the English language, such as cavalier. Indeed the practice of chivalry (by name) is still alive and well in the customs and ceremony of western militaries. We stand when a superior walks into the room. We greet each other with customary phrases and salutes. We open the door for each other, stand on the correct side of our superiors when walking (based on weaponry), and even enter/exit vehicles according to ancient traditions. Who pays for the meal is often dictated by chivalrous traditions.
Why? Because warriors could, would, and often did kill each other. Might makes right - ordained by the will of God the Almighty. Chivalry was NOT extended to women, children, or the elderly by matter of tradition! The weak were fair game for slaughter! But...the women, children, and elderly parents of another warrior? Well, this was a matter for exception to the rule. Chivalry was extended to the weak members of another warrior's family out of respect (and expected reciprocity). For evidence of this code, read "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" circa 14th century.
Do women deserve chivalry today? Of course not, and they did not deserve chivalry 1,300 years ago.
Still, your insistence that women do not deserve chivalry because they can financially provide for themselves is a bit off the mark. A platoon sergeant, company commander, or general officer certainly provides for himself - financially and in terms of physical security. Yet, warriors still defer chivalrously to their warrior leaders. Why? Because these warriors have EARNED that respect!
If women want chivalry...it must be earned through great personal sacrifice. Nothing less will do.
Good, but what Doc is saying isn’t off the mark at all, in fact you proof his point: It is not just about they having their own money but the fallout from that. They want gender roles abolished, when in fact, what they mean is the female ones. So you are right that it must be earned. But they don’t want that, they demand it on the basis of being (as a woman, I deserve) rather than doing (which is what your‘earning’ entails). The earning part makes it something reciprocal, places judgment power on men. He determines who has earned his chivalrous acts and the woman judges his mating potential, fair game.
@@thisweekinternational7702 - Agreed. The point is that chivalry is earned - not given - although it is often extended to the family of the warrior who has earned this respect and deference.
Women who need rescue haven't earned chivalrous deference. Not unless such chivalrous acts are in deference to the woman's father. And yes, I fully appreciate that women expect men to demonstrate chivalry merely BECAUSE she is a woman. But women woefully misunderstand chivalry. It is a code of the warrior-scholar, the dangerous-gentleman.
Chivalry was an exercise in humility for the warrior class of an honor based society
"They can have one or the other but they can't have both." Well said, Doc, well said.
Thank you. In today's world, chivalry is a debatable idea. It is the thought behind the gesture that matters. It should be instantaneous. Chivalry is the mark of an honest man, a person who doesn't fake it. It is much greater concept than just concerning the courting of women, it is a lifestyle. A person whose charm, warmth and helping nature are not limited to any particular gender is chivalrous in the truest sense.
Exactly but I highly doubt if that’s every woman’s idea of chivalry…in fact like almost all women see the materialistic n luxury as well as comfort side of it than the so called truest sense u r talking about ! In my experience very few women do but that too is coupled with other intentions 😂
The funniest way I heard it said was "chivalry isn't dead, it just smells that way".
Being better at functioning as a social being is great. Gestures of kindness and decorum are indispensable for doing so.
Not so much the shackles that the gestures grew in.
Simp
Wish I had this knowledge last week when confronted by a highly intelligent, skilled, single female. Just couldn’t put it in words like this. Thank you!
I like the PhDs in this space, they're providing the lexicon some need for articulation.
You're right to an extent, but chivalry towards women is also based on mens' superior size and strength, and womens' physical and economic vunerability as mothers.
Honestly, I recently held the door open for a hot young girl, couldn't help it, it was just a reflex.
Amazing!
"The more unfreedom and restriction for women = the more chivalry from men": According to this equation women in cultures where they are extremely oppressed must enjoy the highest level of chivalry. If we look at such cultures, it's not the case, they treat women the opposite way. Hence, it's not universal. It only works in societies where chivalry has been a part of the culture historically, and where women are regarded with more respect.
Chivalry is a western concept and I assume this places where women are oppressed are most likely outside of the west cultural influence so there's no point in expecting chivalry from them
Nowhere he said oppression but restriction. You are conflating the two as one.
People restrict child from certain things, does it equate it to oppression for the kid? Not at all.
Actually, that's not true. Cultures that you would describe as "oppressive" are actually very chivalrous.
You get you're information from western feminists.
Muslim countries are very chivalrous.
You are simply wrong.
@@paccawacca4069 how are they chivalrous? When a woman gets raped its her fault. The Muslim religion is the most corrosive invention since sulfuric acid.
Chivalry was originally between men in the battle of war.
So it’s no longer “women and children first”? I’ll be locked up in the tower any day to make sure it’s always “women and CHILDREN first”
Enjoy
Equal job opportunities us a similar case.
Women demand equal access to the opportunities that men have created. But there is no requirement for women to create opportunities for men or women.
We can all name industries, companies, inventions, institutions etc created, pioneered and built up by men. Can you name any significant ones created etc by women? Nor me!
Perhaps the term can be diluted these days to opening the car door, offering your jacket or helping step over a puddle. Such examples are easy to do and can have a high impact.
Economically this makes sense. But I thought this is a Psychology channel. Shouldn't there be a part where our brain have been wired such that men rescues damsels in distress for thousands of years, and women rewards said men with sex, resulting in children? We are evolved for chivalry. This is another contradiction where modern culture have destroyed gender dynamics. We destroyed chilvary even tho our brains relies on it for intimacy, bonding, and pro-creation.
Perhaps the manners of the chivalric code can be kept, but the requirement to pay for a woman's meal can be dropped. The woman can still feel special while the man feels like he is being treated fairly.
Manners must go both ways.
If they do not, your remedy is worthless.
But even before mutual manners are established, false accusations must be penalied by the judicery to the same penalty as that which the falsely claimed assault would carry.
Until then, its too risky for young men to have anything whatsoever to do with modern women.
I understand the rationale but will respectfully disagree. If these small gestures that literally cost next to nothing to the man (opening a door, pulling out a chair, helping her put on a coat, carrying her heavy bag or giving her a seat on the train) is what it takes to become more attractive to her and potentially increase his chances of getting laid - why not just do it?! Also - this is deeply cultural and in many cultures expected and even considered rude and disrespectful if not done. Women are still and always will be physically weaker than men, so why not, say, help her with her luggage?
And finally - I was under the impression that you do not support the overarching of the modern feminist movement, and this smells a whole lot like it.
Give us a choice to choose men who protect and provide and romance us is what they mean by “I miss chivalry “
I don't agree. They weren't incompetent, their skillset was just different, both males and females had roles, responsibilities and duties. Also I don't share the post-modernist sentiment that it is better today that wmn are completely liberated from those old responsibilities and roles, and I think just like the Romans and Greeks suffered tanked fertility rates in their later stages, our declining fertility rates are a clear indicator of our Civilization's imminent demise. Once you take people off the farm, and all the gender/family structure that entails, and put them into cities you've kicked your social chessboard.
There is a shortage of chivalrous men nowadays because there's plenty of women who are strong, self- sufficient. For me still chivalrous men are sexy and there are still alive I'm lucky I met some 😊🧡 . Chivalry has a different meaning for me. Chivalry is gentleness and respect .
Chivalry is looks, smooth talk, and money. Whats changed?
Umm, all the things you mentioned?
Nowadays most males in my country (as "men" is an yet to be earned title for them) think working out from time to time (I workout almost every day, for at least an hour) and taking a quick shower is more than enough to be considered desirable, get angry if they're expected to pay even for a lady's pack of gum and will try anything in order to avoid it, yet they're very quick to hint at physical intimacy. And they have the audacity to complain that attractive women (if any women at all) don't want them.
Big supporter of your content, keep it coming brother
You have NO idea, how grateful I am to your free education.
If I have a billion dollars, I’ll dump 1 million dollars to you for you to accompany me wherever I go.
Ah, but you forget, chivalry exists in every 2 parent family where the father always sweeps in and rescues his overprotected daughter from the reality of hard work and low pay by taking care of her every whim.Thy want the best of both. they want someone who would do anything for them, but expect nothing from them That pretty much describes modern spoiling fathers.
I disagree us wanting chivalry is just us wanting aan to show love and loyalty towards us. Its quite simple you are thinking about it in the wrong
way
It's not about chivalry it's about women feeling safe and contained. I'm not talking about paying for everything, I'm talking about men being in their masculine which allows women to relax into their feminine. This distinction needs to be made.
As usual, the man is the starting point (the burden of starting). Why is the woman not in her feminine to start with and the man needs to act in way that allows her. What if the man says the woman needs act feminine to allow him to be in his masculine? Who starts?
There are still modern women who miss that? 🙅♀️😱 Maybe It is different here, because I am from Germany…here women open up all Doors on their own (literally and figuratively!)
Chivalry (phonetically) in Korean would be written as 씨발리 which would translate as Village of Fuck or Devil's Tongue.
😂
Chivalry is always a positive thing. It shows that a man has proper manners..
You are not putting chivalry into the truly bigger picture. You are a product of the contorted modern cultural mindset. I am a Southern Gentleman.
I think sometimes chivalry and getting compassion are conflated with each other.
Both in which women can be good at receiving it.
I understand your premise and recognize the truth of the origin of chivalry. However, I believe modern chivalry is based on our desire to simply be a decent person and a general recognition of the fact that women are the weaker sex in a physical sense. Not to say they can't do things for themselves, but that we men should use our strength in support of women.
no
To all men: I admire how more in control of your emotions you are in general, how more disciplined and focused you usually are with your work, your capacity to be so much less dramatic and make problems smaller by removing that aspect of it, your protective attitude towards everybody and how more objective men are in general, more than women.
I appreciate you recovering the romantic love myth , still , there is a side to it I have not heard you yet explore .True, married to old fellows spending most of their time in battle , young lady's found solace in courteous love. Romance was a triangular and platonic thing , or it was doomed to bring catastrophe [ may Kings Arthur's story suffice as an example ]
It emerged as the Virgin became more than the throne to turn her gaze towards her divine son, women became not objects but being itself, requiring to do nothing to fulfil their purpose, they where it.
Standing as the soul to be served and saved , as a mission to be re-engaged , a giver of meaning, to love them as Christ loved the church, to death.
Ok Doc, on this one I have to point out, “People want what they want” women don’t care much about history, however they do like chivalry’s benefits even though it’s ridiculous in modern times.
It’s just manners and supply and demand…you don’t have to pay if you don’t want to…but I don’t have to return any affection either.
@psychacks Good topic Orion.
at age 23 I noticed a shapely silhouette on my uni bus a moment before boarding it, introduced myself and had her number before getting out at the next stop.
As I got to know her (26 y.o. Masters student out of town) in the following week I learned she had the same boyfriend from age 16- a pharmacist 17 years her senior.
She chose to break up with him over the phone just before we became intimate. A decision I still shake my head at even now when I think about it.
The excitement of being in a new relationship likely affected her choice as on paper I was an internally adventurous undergrad with a minimum wage job over the course of the summer, who treated her on dates, held the door for her, handmade cards and overtures - though far from financially secure.
For certain, God-given gifts of a silver tongue, an intellectual curiosity- combined with incorrigible habits of
nosing into my paternal grandmother's and my mother's Avon Romance series, Louis L'Amour, Jude Devereaux, and other various romance novels to learn what women like as a child and preteen helped influence and enhance the depth of person I would evolve into.
We parted ways as she returned home that summer. She would end up marrying her best friend years later. I'm grateful for our experience together.
No, women don't miss the days when they weren't equal to men; they just want to "have their cake & eat it too".
Creating a family is not inprisonment.
While I agree with the context of this narrative I think you are looking too deeply at a comment like " I miss chivalry". I understand the origins and why chivalry was "needed" but most women, myself included do not mean that we want to be a useless damsel that needs rescuing, but that we love and appreciate the gestures that make us feel cared for. Because even though I am capable of supporting myself and doing many things on my own, I still love that my husband takes charge, provides, opens my door, and "protects" me, regardless of the history of chivalry. I think this is the equivalent of judging the past by today's standards, in this case, you are assessing a woman's comment today based on the ancient meaning and representation of chivalry which no longer exists.
Dude you went in 💯
It’s nice to have a man open doors etc. but I read that men who act more chivalrous tend to be more sexist. I’d prefer to give this up if I have to give up my money and independence. I was a manager in my early twenties at a day program and I remember that the Psychologist would let me pull the gate up and not offer to help. He was actually a very nice guy and maybe he wanted to show me that I was strong enough to do it myself.
So you think chivalry is based in sexism?
If recognizing that the two sexes are biologically and psychologically different is sexists... Then dating, is sexist. Sex, is sexist. Having children, is sexist. Having women soccer playing separately from the men's soccer, is sexist.
Modern people have lost the plot.
Fucking obviously.
If men are expected to protect "women and children" why would they respect women like men?
It logically follows that men would have less respect for women if women cannot be independent.
Women seem to lose all crtitical-thinking faculties when discussing topics of intergender dynamics.
I am sure that if women were expected to submit to male authority with no chivalry, they would not be hapy.
Listen if everyone ca get it out of la la land that’d be great. It has been known and understood for centuries that most species of male animals reserve protection and resource sharing for female they are sexual involved with. This is the OLDEST mating strategy own to man. Most of the time an act of “chilvary” is a man trying to proposition you for sexual or romantic relations. At some point women began to understand this and began rejecting chilvary from men we are not interested in. I don’t at all see it as being rude, I see it as not leading him on and not putting myself in a position in which someone thinks I owe the something that I am not willing to give.
@@nunyabi5953 Bluntly put, and it makes sense. But if chivalry is equivalent to sexual proposition (which I admit it may be), in some cases it might work (when the woman that is object of chivalry IS interested). Is there a problem with that? You cannot fairly object to men wanting to get involved with women.
Nothing works in this world like it should be ... simply because this planet is a real Hell for most of us and few who are enjoying it are the favorites. That's it !!!!!
I think women and men want to be cared for. That is the appeal of chivalry....
Women enjoy chivalry because they like polarity. As do men. Basic psych.
I'm so thankful for this.. my understanding is to treat everyone w respect. It came to a point where I have to realize boundaries and understand we're all able body😅😅
Also the fact that you mentioned, what they're not free to... Masculinity! If a masculine man make a gesture, they appreciate that energy.
Chivalry isn’t nice. It’s kindness. The difference is the latter will kill. Nice pple are naive or manipulate. there’s no courage in being nice.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Everything is a response and adaption. Chivalry serves no purpose or benefit today.
THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT!
Completely agree
I'd argue the problem is men's ego and superiority complex. Or that is what my dear friend Reinhard.
In this video he said chilvlary provisions originated and was given because women have nothing of their own - this is difficult to understand as these women are married to wealthy men who definitely gave things to these women whom knights are adoring were married to men at wealth ?
You are right about how it started, b ut chivalry, - I would just call it somewhat formal etiquette - is a pleasant form of interaction between the sexes that has rather in the form of a dance with prescribed steps. The man holds a door, or holds the woman's chair to help her sit down in a full dress, and in return gets a warm smile. A warm feeling is shared and perhaps an acquaintance is made, with no obligation to go farther.
Now, paying for the woman is an odd thing. In my time (very long ago), women usually insisted on paying for themselves, especially on a first date, to show their independence or to avoid feeling that they had been put under a sexual obligation, or because they thought that the man had no more money than they did. Nowadays, young women seem to think that they should be paid for because they put a lot more effort into looking into looking nice for the date.
Which is a very fair expectation, since men's beauty standards for us are getting higher and higher, to the point when some of them are straight up unrealistic for most of us. What's the point in spending 1 or 2 hours in the gym almost every day, the same amount of time before the date (in order to look spectacular and smell delicious for him), make sure I'm pleasant company and get absolutely nothing valuable out of it?
And no, the solution is not for him to wait *forever* to finally ask out, so he could have the excuse that "wE'rE bASiCaLLy bRoS". If he doesn't do it soon, I assume he's not interested and he becomes background noise.
@@kiravampira1456 Who pays is really up to people who are dating now, but I think 1 hour in the gym every other day is plenty. Use the time that frees up to develop other parts of your character.
@douglashoover6473 Translation: I don't want women to know how incredibly important looks are for us and how weak we may get in the face of a really attractive woman, so I'll try to keep them thinking they should do much more than required and make my life easy. Sadly for you, just like such channels exist for men, the other side of the coin are channels that teach women about *your* mindset and tactics.
Still, you surely do have some unearned audacity to think you're in the position to decide what a complete stranger, that you know absolutely nothing about, should spend their time developing. The living proof that age not only doesn't make you smarter, but can have the opposite effect.
Wow! That is so lodical!
The first thing that comes to mind is the idea that women oscillate between espousing traditionalism or feminism/equality as it suits their current needs. Feminism when it comes to pay checks, traditionalism when it comes to who pays on a date. To your point in this video; the idea that the man should always pay on a date (to my knowledge) is based in the notion that a woman wouldn't have a job and therefore couldn't really pay her own way like a man could. After the 1960s and 1980s especially with women entering the job market en masse that premise no longer made as much sense. For the norm that the man should always pay to be valid like it was when it was a normal practice women would need to be limited in their life and career choices like they were when it was a normal practice.
They can optimize for some perceivable short term advantage. But they will always destroy everyone and themselves. We have found equilibrium that works through thousands of years of human evolution and culture selection. Moving any part of our 'tradition' results in equal but opposite force somewhere in the chain. There are very few things you can move that improves the condition for most people involved, and we can't exactly tell which are these things. Most things if we change them, it will likely be for the worse.
In the same way "men" nowadays want traditionalism when it comes to cooking + cleaning and splitting the check when it comes to paying on a date?
Let’s not pretend women are now treated completely equal to men. It’s no wonder we still lament chivalry
While I see the point and argument, and I agree that the decline of chivalry has to do with feminism, I don't think chivalry requires extremes of restrictions, impoverishment, distress and being "locked up in a tower". If we allow chivalry to decline even more than it already has, manners and climate in society are going downhill. It's already bad enough; do we really want a society where it gets worse? Furthermore it's not just about female independence pertaining money, career, rights and opportunities. If we regard the relations between men and women with only a focus on that, it becomes one-sided. The physical and spiritual aspect (women's bodies are weaker than men's on the whole, they are more emotional and fragile than men), and gender dynamics have to be taken into consideration as well. If we take chivalry out of society, it's going to impact general relations between men and women and romantic relations on a deep level.
The general decline of values, the loss of respect for marriage and family and the impact of capitalism play a role for its demise as well.
Women always want the upside without the downside. Hypergamy in action.
Chivalry is not an on/off switch. You are or are not. Same with femininity. You are or are not. It's not 'I'll be feminine for the right man".
You are so smart
I expect chivalrous behavior. I won't be with a guy without it. I appreciate it. I let the guy know I love it. It does make me feel special. I'm traditional old fashioned.
So true.
What about women's inner chaos and men's inner order. Like women usually have things that need fixing (figuratively and literally) & men usually need to fix things (figuratively and literally). I'm sure is a different topic from chivalry though. Good video.
Excellent analysis. Thank you, doc.
First there must be a man who even cares in the first place. I never experienced any valuable Character Traits. I guess they wanted to make sure I returned to the nothingness until my final moment alive
From an historical point of view it is incorrect to state women didn't have money or didn't work before. The only breadwinner of the family being a man only happened within a short span of time after the 2nd world war. But even during ancient Rome or Egypt women worked. Noble women didn't work but they did have money.
I am and ways will be more then capable of taking care of myself in any way.....but I have a husband who still loves to hold the door...protect me....and do physical jobs around the house. I have the best of both worlds.
Okay, hope you also give the best to others not only have
Everybody is greedy and wants positive stuff.
"Chivalry is dead. And women killed it."
--Dave Chappelle