The coil fires when the Points Open... When closed, the points allow current to travel through the coil to ground to saturate the windings. When they open the magnetic field collapses onto the High voltage windings. NEED TO CHECK THE POINTS... the Points are the ground for the secondary windings.
It maybe that a 6 volt system is not compatible with the new electronic ignition that was put in the distributed. It could be designed for 12 volts. Either way the line to the points on the distributer is probably the problem.
Yes. Jim said it had an electronic ignition added. It’s a Hall effect sensor that replaces the points. That system would need to be checked. To see if it’s sending signal to the coil. As far as 6 or 12v? Who knows? I haven’t heard him say what voltage the car actually is running on.
On that type of electronic ignition conversion the red wire goes to the + side of the coil with the 2 wires from the car harness and the black wirlre goes to the - side of the coil. The ignition module could be bad . If hooking it up like this doesn't produce spark I would recommend removing it and putting points back in it. Hope this helps
First comment i have seen thats right the points break the signal on the black to make the coil fixed can test the theory with a set of points at least temp.
Jim, the coil "fires" when the magnetic field inside the coil collapses. The hot wire to the coil is a constant, the ground side of the coil is what comes and goes by the points. To test the coil put hot to hot side and flash the ground to the ground side to collapse the magnetic field and make it spark. Be Blessed.
Hillbilly has a good test. Think of the coil as needing power, ground, and trigger, with the wire that goes to the center of the distributor being output, or "fire". (What Chad is confusing with the trigger's input.) The body of the coil is grounded and the two power wires go to "+" as Jim had it. Now you need the trigger wire (from the distributor to "-" as Jim had it), to be connected to saturate the windings. After a very short "charge", the secondary windings are saturated and opening the trigger wire (what points do) fires the coil, sending a spark out the fat wire to the distributor. If the HEI isn't working, the trigger won't work and you don't get the charge-discharge behavior that points replacement needs. But you can still manually trigger the coil by connecting "-" to ground momentarily, then disconnecting. Which is what points do. BTW, if you're troubleshooting the whole system, it's best to find a way to take HEI out of the picture because you'll usually break it by hooking it up backward (why Chad's wire switch was a bad idea) and they're often the problem to begin with. Points need maintenance, but you can always make them work. Not so with ignitors, which are nice when they work but make you walk when they don't. And unlike points, you can't see them working. My best guess is get a points distributor and you'll get it working pretty quickly. Chad, the coil doesn't send power to the distributor. The distributor grounds and breaks ground for the coil through the negative wire connecting the two, switching power to the coil windings. What is sent to the distributor is the spark from the coil's discharge, out the fat center wire of the coil to the center wire of the distributor. That spark is then distributed to the plugs. But you get no spark if you aren't switching the windings, which is what the distributor does for the coil. As was also suggested, a 12v coil probably makes a poor spark with 6v connections. A 6v coil will work with either, but burn up soon in a 12v system. Oh, and an oversaturated coil will explode, ask me how I know. The top will blow off pretty violently. And then you will know you have a bad coil if you're still alive, though you didn't start with a bad coil. When you were playing with the blue wire, if you'd only held the fat wire for the gap, held the blue wire to ground and then pulled the blue wire from the ground, you'd have seen a spark. tapping the blue wire to ground and off would have given more sparks. A coil isn't like a motor. And my bet is that all of your coils are good even after connecting them up wrong. Wish I could say the same for your HEI.
Chad enjoy your content. Cherish your friendship with Jim. I just lost my friend Dale, he and I were a carbon copy of you and Jim. Dale was an incredible car guy, 82. R.I.P.
It looks like Jim boy had it right Red wires to coil positive and black to coil negative To check coil you need an ohm meter. Across the two terminals is the primary winding 1.4 to 2 ohms The secondary wings are measured between the coil tower and either one of the wire terminal connections and could read any thing fro 8,000 ohms to 40,000 ohms Make sure you selector the correct settings on the meter James United Kingdom Good luck
Remove the electronic ignition temporarily, and stick the points back in just to see if you have fire. I've seen many of these electronic ignitions which happen to be bad right out of the box. Jim is 100% correct, the keyed hot wire goes to the positive side of coil. the points, or electronic ign. goes to the negative side. PS...No the body of the coil does NOT need to be grounded.
Boys Boys Boys you need to hook up the points before the coil will work, the plus side of the coil is two wires and the minus side goes to the points, you do need the points before you get a spark from the coil, if points are bad you won't get a spark
To test the coil, connect the +terminal to the hot side of a battery, connect a wire to the negative coil terminal while tapping the other end of the wire to the battery negative quickly while holding the High tension wire close to the metal base of the coil for a spark. Tapping the wire off the negative battery terminal simulates the function of points. If the coil tests good, Hook up the red ignition and resistor to the positive of the Coil. Mount the coil in its clamp. The case of the coil is the high voltage return and will not work without a solid connection to the block. Your electronic modules red goes to the +coil and the black goes to coil neg. If you don't have fire at the coil. test light the -coil terminal with your test light and crank the engine. If no flash is seen then the electronic module is bad.
To test a coil. Connect 12v to positive(+) terminal on coil, connect negative terminal on coil to a wire, now tap this wire to ground and let go. When ground is disconnected the coil will fire, make sure to have a spark plug wire and spark plug connected to the coil and the spark plug grounded. This is what the points do in the distributor, and what the electronic module also has to do, it has to disconnect ground from the coil once for every spark, so eight times per revolution on this car. I think.. hehe
Gents this video killed me. As an Electrical type, it was obvious neither of you understands the first principles of electricity, and what these old ignition systems do. I had to skip through the video just to see if you ever got it working - as I cringed with every attempt. The "coil" is just a transformer with 2 windings on a core. The 12 volt winding needs to be grounded to complete (energize) the circuit creating a magnetic field. When you remove the ground lead (and open the circuit - done so via the points when the distributor is being cycled by the engine/starter - it just pulses the ground connection) the magnetic field collapses inducing energy into the high voltage winding, which is connected to the spark plugs (via the distributor's rotor and high voltage cables,) allowing ignition to occur. (As long as the spark plug is grounded & timing of the pulses is correct.) It's the build up, and collapsing, of the magnetic field that creates the spark. Passing 12 volts DC across the coil's primary winding without interruption will not induce anything into the secondary high voltage winding / high tension leads. I hope this is helpful.
this is real my brother being there and teaching is a beautiful thing. best video I have seen in a min. Teach and caring, helping friends. good to see good peeps are still in the world!!!!
jim you have the two wires to the positive side of the coil correct. The start wire feeds 12 volts to the coil, the run wire goes through the ballast resistor and feeds 9 volts to the coil to run. The negative terminal on the coil connects to the distributor. You are also correct there. When the points open they cause the coil to discharge through the large wire that goes to the center of the distributor cap. You can test all the wires and the coil up to this point by taking the large coil wire out of the cap and holding it close to a ground. You also had this part correct. Next take off the distributor cap and with a small screwdriver open the points. It will make the big coil wire spark at the ground. If you are lucky when you take the cap off you might be close to the lobe on the distributor cam. If so you can twist the rotor to open and close the points to test. The positive wires feed the power to the coil, the negative wire goes the the points, when you open the points it causes the coil to discharge. You can test a coils windings with a vom meter. Look it up on youtube they are all the same. A coil is very reliable and most problems are in the points, next the rotor and cap terminals as Chad saw on the hup. Have Chads friend John look at it, he's a mechanic, and will have you running in minutes
F Schwartz related it has been converted to a module, in which case it wouldn't need the resistor. If original, I would check the point gap which is .019 with a feeler gage or 30 degrees on a dwell meter. Also check to make sure the rotor is turning. Over the years I've seen several distributer gears fail. If it can't engage the drive gear, the engine spins, but the distributor shaft sits still. The condensor (capacitor) is a rare culprit, but they do occasionally fail. I haven't bought points and condensors in more years than I can remember. However, a long time ago, I do remember going to a parts store to get a set for a four cylinder Chev (Iron Duke) boat motor. The kid behind the counter had no idea what I was asking for, but allowed me to look for the parts myself. Took them to the boat, did an eyeball adjustment and it fired right up.
Love jim! Sometimes geniuses tend to make simple things very complicated. It takes another mind and set of eyes to take a look and give new perspective
hey jim....good to see you again....hook up the power wires to the coil pop off the cap....turn on the key and open the points with a screw driver see if they spark....if so check cap or rotor might be shot....clean up the points and re gap them...check for power going from the coil to distributor...the test light will flicker if the points are working
@@mixhammers5187 everyone knows that she was banned end of and for your info since she was banned subs have gone up by 1000 chat is full of proper car chat as chad wanted chad gave me and benton a massive shout out for doing a great job as moderators you must have saw that thats the end of the matter if you keep persisting in this course of action you are only making yourself look foolish nobody is interested
Jim's instincts were absolutely right. Remember that the distributor has 2 functions - firstly to make/break the connection to earth that's what allows the coil to create the spark. The second function is to deliver the spark to the correct cylinder. If only Jim had removed that blue wire from earth when the igintion was switched on, you would have seen a spark - No need to actually crank the engine. Also the coil casing doesn't need to be earthed. Where is Downtown John when you need him?
I really like Jim's workshop, there is a lot of interesting junk. Also nice to see the transformation of the Oldsmobile, which was originally a rusty wreck. 😎👍 Greetings from Switzerland
Could also be the ballast resistor. Some cars have a wire from the ignition switch or a block on the firewall. This will be a good one for both of you to work on.
If it was me would go and get a good coil, points, rotar arm, dizzy cap etc and set it up as original. At the very least get a new coil to start with. Chad and Jim are so interesting to watch. Chad has so much patience just a genuinely nice guy lol
Just watched this episode again. The issue is that in a coil, the ground is connected to the points or electronic module so that the primary is “switched” on-and-off to rapidly energize and collapse the magnetic field inside the coil. This causes the primary (connected to 12VDC) to induce an electrical current in the secondary (connected to the distributor and to the spark plug sequence) and to increase the voltage by several orders of magnitude (20,000 V +). A coil is like a transformer, which does not work on DC. It needs to be subject to an alternating current to work. The points or electronic module simulate an alternating current by switching 12 VDC to 0 VDC and back to 12 VDC and so on. The resultant “square wave” is what makes the coil work. Grounding the coil does not work unless the ground is rapidly switched on and off. It’s just how electrical inductance work.
From what I can see, You don't have any power to the (+) side of the coil. You need a hot (+) supply to the coil as well as the red wire from the distributor. The red wire from the distributor does not supply power to the coil. It needs the (+) feed from the coil to power the module in the distributor. The black wire from the distributor goes to the (-) side of the coil. There is a very high possibility that the module is fried by now but give it a try.
Please tell Jim, hook both positive to the coil. Then put the short wire back on the - side. Plug the distributor wire and lay the coil down. Set the spark wire near metal, take the short wire and touch and release to the metal block. If it sparks, the coil is working and your electronic ignition is not working. Put an ohm meter on the wire to the distributor and touch the block. Turn over the engine and the ohms should bounce up and zero. If no ohm meter, get your 12 volt test light. One side to + and - to distributor, turn over the engine, light should flutter.
Hey guys, 6:30am here. I would check the resistance of the coil with a multimeter. Also, the Huprod had a similar problem and it seemed to be the rotor not conducting/making good contact with dizzy cap thus not allowing coil voltage to reach plugs. My 2 cents :-)
OK, this is "off the cuff": I was getting a bit crazy with intermittent ignition problems on my 455 Olds - HEI ignition. New "everything": wires, cap, rotor, condenser, "module"..... WHAT COULD BE WRONG ???????????? Oh, wait, there is that little circular magnetic sensor around the shaft inside the distributor - "factory". That sends the signal to the digital switch. THAT was the problem !!!!!!!!! It had to be! And it was. Easy to take for granted. ?
Which brings me to: go back to basics: POINTS ! (I read he was HEI???) I still have my original 1969 points distributor for my 455. Not a terrible option.
Chad's always helping out a good neighbor , and look it's Jim! Coil ? Jim it could be a few things that don't make spark . 🤔 if I had to guess I'd say bad connection to the starter or ground or dead battery or bad wires so your going to eliminate them one by one . Respect you though for asking for help . I'd do the same . Thumbs-up Jolene 👍 and 👍 Chad and 👍 Jim
Jim and Chad , you will need to discard the resistor that drops the 12 volts to 6 volts it is used with a point system and since it has been changed over to electronic conversion verify you have 12 volts from the switch to the positive side of the coil. Its possible the Module is bad in the conversion .Petronix makes a good unit and has a installation video on TH-cam
Negative side of the coil goes to the distributor wire coming from the distributor. Positive side is the hot side coming from the key and from the starter solenoid for 12 volts while cranking. Check the points Jim! Make sure they are opening and closing,and not caroded. Myself,I would put new points and condenser. Then check for spark!
Yep pretty much that simple. If he has a 12 V electronic module in the cap all he needs to do is bypass the ballast resistor on the firewall to supply a full 12V.
The resistor is only there to make the points last a reasonable amount of time. Coils rarely go bad, most likely you have a problem with the points! They don’t open or they don’t close. Probably just need adjustment but I’ve seen this problem be caused by the distributor not turning! Open the distributor and have a look!
Really enjoyed this episode. Jim when converting from points to electronic ignition. On my 1973 nova , v8. The resistor wire needed to be switched over to regular wire, the resistor wire will not let it start or run. That's for the pertronix electronic upgrade.
I really enjoyed it a lot and I learn at the same time, every time you get together. And Jolene's incredible camera handling, make all of this a pleasure, and make me feel part of this friendship 😎👍
Yes I remember having to change out coils. Yes if you use a multimeter you can test to see if a coil is good or not. Also many times run into look new but not good look old but is good. Sometimes old means it was built better.
👌 With the ignition on the coil needs to be grounded good, leaving the ignition on for a little while the coil sould start getting warm at the touch of the hand is a sign the coil is good .. But the outside of the coil has to be grounded real good & negative wire connected to the distributor to make spark , if not somethings going on wrong with your electronic ignition 👍
Jim - good talking with you this evening. I hope the diagrams help you out and hope you get it hooked up right! Like I was telling you, I just recently installed a Pertronix Electronic Ignitor in my 57 Buick Wagon, so I understand the confusion!
Jim needs to give him self more credit than what he thinks he deserves because he is really intelligent actually knows how to put stuff together especially that red car That thing was a mess you showed us tha like a year and a half ago I thought he’d still be working on that but he’s got it done he’s pretty productive. I’m glad you stepped in and told him he does have some pride you’re the man Chad
best suggestion is to examine module in the distributor for brand name or part # google for a wiring diagram and wire it up accordingly. Just switching wiring around on electronic parts is asking to fry something. Love your shows. I try to check your new one every day.
No mechanic, but I would check the voltage on battery and get a coil that says the same as the battery voltage and get a cheap volt- olm meter to see if the coil is open on the small terminals if using those used coils. I think the circuit for the small wires has to work before the coil sends spark to the plugs. Also, I am thinking holding the ground with your hand may not be a good enough connection for checking the coil for spark. Not sure but I think they call the small terminals the primary circuit and the spark the secondary circuit. Thanks for video Jim will get it figured out~ LoL
Only just got to watching this video today. Dang, I hate screaming at a screen when I know you can't hear me. LOL. I've read a lot of comments saying the same thing in different ways, but most would go over the heads of most. Collapsing field, etc., though all correct, might sound like wah wah wah without a visual to go along with. On initial observations you have a couple simple issues to resolve/know. 1) of course you can test a coil. Use a volt/ohm meter and measure resistance. There is primary resistance readings and secondary resistance readings. Basically a coil has these two parts. If either circuit is open or shorted, or way out of spec, replace it. Go to, uh, TH-cam University for testing process. I won't do it justice without images. 2) you have a ballast resistor, mostly, because oil filled coils cannot run on 12 volts without getting hot and failing prematurely. They've not changed much from their 6 volt cousins. Newer coils can handle the 12 volts, but few do. Aircore coils can, and are cheap (but require the correct plug wire style) Also, if the car had points still, the points arc less on the 9 volts-ish seen after a ballast resistor. 3) the Pertronix setup (I assume) has two wires. A red power wire and a trigger wire, which is not technically a ground. If grounded, as I saw in the video, it will likely fry the Pertronix in short order. This black wire goes to the negative terminal of the coil and is what causes the coil to fire. The coil will never fire as it was wired in the video. The red wire of the Pertronix should go to a 12 volt source, key on. You also must retain the ballast resistor if you use a stock coil, so you need to feed the red wire to the Pertronix pre-ballast resistor, and the coil + terminal post-ballast resistor. 4) the body of the coil is a can, not grounded to anything. The only connections are ( + ) power and ( - ) distributor (black wire on pertronix only). 5) the key switch start/run positions determine when the coil gets 12 volts when cranking on start, the on run goes through the ballast resistor to get the 9 volts. A test light would be a hard tool to use to make sure you're getting the correct voltage. I know this may even be more words than a picture or video would show. But at least I feel better now. TH-cam University is your friend as well as your bread and butter. 👌 Love watching whether things go well or not. That's how we all learn.
Nice to see Jim again Chad & Jolene . New coil needed for sure,electronic ignition module burnt out if wired up wrong,so I would suggest to go back to manual points and condenser 👍 Great watch tho and Good luck
I love all Jim’s animations with his hands and complex explanations on what is such a simple subject.......Chads facial expressions are so funny. 'You cannot be serious'.....:) Hillbilly fun.
Jim is right. Connect the red wire from the distributor to positive terminal of coil. Connect the black wire to the negative terminal of coil. The distributor makes and breaks the coil curcuit to give you spark.
the positive comes from the ignition. the negative comes from the distributor. the spark only happens when the points open up because the coil is like a capacitor. sometimes the positive from the ignition is there when you turn the key on. but when you turn key to start the motor you lose the positive because the ignition is bad. so you take a jumper wire and go from battery. to positive on coil and then try starting the car and it should start and run of your problem is the ignition. so to recap the coil is a device that not only stores voltage but increaces it. so it will only spark when the point open and it has not connection to negative. you can take a coil and hook it up to a regular battery and have the coll out spark next to the ground and whey you take the negative wire off it will then send the spark out. and if you take a coil and hook a positve then a negative for several seconds. then take the positive and negative off the coil still has the voltage in it and you can put a short wire from the positive to the out put and it will spark.
TO TEST THE COILS RESISTANCE Get a Multimeter tester, To test the primary coil. Set it to ohms put the Black lead to negative side of coil and Red to the positive side. The reading should be between point .4 and around 2 ohms. This is called Primary. To test the Secondary coil, put the Black lead to the top of coil where the spark plug wire goes, and the red lead to the positive side of the coil. The reading should show a resistance of about 6k to about 15k. To wire in the coil run a wire or trace a wire from the battery to the key switch. From the key switch to the negative side of coil. then from the positive side of coil to the capacitor in the distributer / breaker in the distributor P.S. Electronic ignition system is different.
The most basic thing when working with electricity is to be sure you have a *circuit*. It's not enough to 'bring power to' a device; electricity needs a way to get back to the source too, or it can't flow Somebody mentioned that the black box, where the points would be, perhaps cannot switch the power to the coil terminals by itself. It could just be sensing the crankshaft position, and signaling an engine control module to actually switch power to the coil.
Just watched this again because it reminds me of my youth in the garage with my dad god bless him... I reckon most of us car people have had episodes like this with something or other.
It is good to see Jolene, Chad, and Jim working together again. I guess Fina is at home guarding the property. Don't forget to give her a treat when you get home for doing a good job.Bill
Good ole Jim n Chad,these two fellas are just having fun working on the ignition system. Hopefully they checked the coil wire to make sure its not broken.
I love being with you guys it’s like being with buds in the backyard I’ve been with you since day one and will continue. Till the wheels fall off. Ps Jolene sure has the camera work down pat
points are officially called breaker points, as they break the circuit to ground. Meaning as the distributor turns the lobes and cause the points to open and close, breaking and making current for spark for each cylinder. So if you hook up the positive power to the positive on the coil then touch the ground wire to negative of the power source the coil should produce one spark every time, When you break the circuit and re-apply to ground you will get another spark.
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The coil fires when the Points Open... When closed, the points allow current to travel through the coil to ground to saturate the windings. When they open the magnetic field collapses onto the High voltage windings. NEED TO CHECK THE POINTS... the Points are the ground for the secondary windings.
Secondary coil resistance test
@@frankschwartz7405 You can't wire that directly to the coil. am I correct? It would go to some kind of ECM then the coil. right?
It maybe that a 6 volt system is not compatible with the new electronic ignition that was put in the distributed. It could be designed for 12 volts. Either way the line to the points on the distributer is probably the problem.
Yes. Jim said it had an electronic ignition added. It’s a Hall effect sensor that replaces the points. That system would need to be checked. To see if it’s sending signal to the coil. As far as 6 or 12v? Who knows? I haven’t heard him say what voltage the car actually is running on.
It’s electronic ignition so it has no points
On that type of electronic ignition conversion the red wire goes to the + side of the coil with the 2 wires from the car harness and the black wirlre goes to the - side of the coil.
The ignition module could be bad . If hooking it up like this doesn't produce spark I would recommend removing it and putting points back in it.
Hope this helps
First comment i have seen thats right the points break the signal on the black to make the coil fixed can test the theory with a set of points at least temp.
Glad to see a new video at Jim's place. He always put a smile on my face.
Jim, the coil "fires" when the magnetic field inside the coil collapses.
The hot wire to the coil is a constant, the ground side of the coil is what comes and goes by the points.
To test the coil put hot to hot side and flash the ground to the ground side to collapse the magnetic field and make it spark.
Be Blessed.
Hillbilly has a good test. Think of the coil as needing power, ground, and trigger, with the wire that goes to the center of the distributor being output, or "fire". (What Chad is confusing with the trigger's input.) The body of the coil is grounded and the two power wires go to "+" as Jim had it. Now you need the trigger wire (from the distributor to "-" as Jim had it), to be connected to saturate the windings. After a very short "charge", the secondary windings are saturated and opening the trigger wire (what points do) fires the coil, sending a spark out the fat wire to the distributor.
If the HEI isn't working, the trigger won't work and you don't get the charge-discharge behavior that points replacement needs. But you can still manually trigger the coil by connecting "-" to ground momentarily, then disconnecting. Which is what points do. BTW, if you're troubleshooting the whole system, it's best to find a way to take HEI out of the picture because you'll usually break it by hooking it up backward (why Chad's wire switch was a bad idea) and they're often the problem to begin with. Points need maintenance, but you can always make them work. Not so with ignitors, which are nice when they work but make you walk when they don't. And unlike points, you can't see them working. My best guess is get a points distributor and you'll get it working pretty quickly.
Chad, the coil doesn't send power to the distributor. The distributor grounds and breaks ground for the coil through the negative wire connecting the two, switching power to the coil windings. What is sent to the distributor is the spark from the coil's discharge, out the fat center wire of the coil to the center wire of the distributor. That spark is then distributed to the plugs. But you get no spark if you aren't switching the windings, which is what the distributor does for the coil.
As was also suggested, a 12v coil probably makes a poor spark with 6v connections. A 6v coil will work with either, but burn up soon in a 12v system. Oh, and an oversaturated coil will explode, ask me how I know. The top will blow off pretty violently. And then you will know you have a bad coil if you're still alive, though you didn't start with a bad coil.
When you were playing with the blue wire, if you'd only held the fat wire for the gap, held the blue wire to ground and then pulled the blue wire from the ground, you'd have seen a spark. tapping the blue wire to ground and off would have given more sparks. A coil isn't like a motor. And my bet is that all of your coils are good even after connecting them up wrong. Wish I could say the same for your HEI.
Hillbilly has it right .
A good explanation by Douglas Nicholls .I was trying to explain it that way too but,,it would just be a repeat, lol. Thanks Douglas
Chad enjoy your content. Cherish your friendship with Jim. I just lost my friend Dale, he and I were a carbon copy of you and Jim. Dale was an incredible car guy, 82. R.I.P.
It looks like Jim boy had it right Red wires to coil positive and black to coil negative To check coil you need an ohm meter. Across the two terminals is the primary winding 1.4 to 2 ohms The secondary wings are measured between the coil tower and either one of the wire terminal connections and could read any thing fro 8,000 ohms to 40,000 ohms Make sure you selector the correct settings on the meter James United Kingdom Good luck
My condolences. I know it sucks losing good folks we lean on and learn from. Sorry for your loss, man.
Remove the electronic ignition temporarily, and stick the points back in just to see if you have fire. I've seen many of these electronic ignitions which happen to be bad right out of the box. Jim is 100% correct, the keyed hot wire goes to the positive side of coil. the points, or electronic ign. goes to the negative side. PS...No the body of the coil does NOT need to be grounded.
Love when Jim is on the show!
Jim is TH-cam gold, he really needs his own channel, thank you for sharing another great video.
Jim is a hoot! He asks so many questions and Chad has more patience than I would.
Boys Boys Boys you need to hook up the points before the coil will work, the plus side of the coil is two wires and the minus side goes to the points, you do need the points before you get a spark from the coil, if points are bad you won't get a spark
To test the coil, connect the +terminal to the hot side of a battery, connect a wire to the negative coil terminal while tapping the other end of the wire to the battery negative quickly while holding the High tension wire close to the metal base of the coil for a spark. Tapping the wire off the negative battery terminal simulates the function of points.
If the coil tests good, Hook up the red ignition and resistor to the positive of the Coil. Mount the coil in its clamp. The case of the coil is the high voltage return and will not work without a solid connection to the block. Your electronic modules red goes to the +coil and the black goes to coil neg. If you don't have fire at the coil. test light the -coil terminal with your test light and crank the engine. If no flash is seen then the electronic module is bad.
Fun fun working on these old cars 👍 you guys will figure it out eventually
To test a coil.
Connect 12v to positive(+) terminal on coil, connect negative terminal on coil to a wire, now tap this wire to ground and let go. When ground is disconnected the coil will fire, make sure to have a spark plug wire and spark plug connected to the coil and the spark plug grounded.
This is what the points do in the distributor, and what the electronic module also has to do, it has to disconnect ground from the coil once for every spark, so eight times per revolution on this car.
I think.. hehe
Gents this video killed me. As an Electrical type, it was obvious neither of you understands the first principles of electricity, and what these old ignition systems do. I had to skip through the video just to see if you ever got it working - as I cringed with every attempt.
The "coil" is just a transformer with 2 windings on a core. The 12 volt winding needs to be grounded to complete (energize) the circuit creating a magnetic field. When you remove the ground lead (and open the circuit - done so via the points when the distributor is being cycled by the engine/starter - it just pulses the ground connection) the magnetic field collapses inducing energy into the high voltage winding, which is connected to the spark plugs (via the distributor's rotor and high voltage cables,) allowing ignition to occur. (As long as the spark plug is grounded & timing of the pulses is correct.) It's the build up, and collapsing, of the magnetic field that creates the spark. Passing 12 volts DC across the coil's primary winding without interruption will not induce anything into the secondary high voltage winding / high tension leads. I hope this is helpful.
Also, hooking things up incorrectly to test, is not a wise option for a lot of electrical components.
I'm with you Jim, painful to watch
this is real my brother being there and teaching is a beautiful thing. best video I have seen in a min. Teach and caring, helping friends. good to see good peeps are still in the world!!!!
jim you have the two wires to the positive side of the coil correct. The start wire feeds 12 volts to the coil, the run wire goes through the ballast resistor and feeds 9 volts to the coil to run. The negative terminal on the coil connects to the distributor. You are also correct there. When the points open they cause the coil to discharge through the large wire that goes to the center of the distributor cap. You can test all the wires and the coil up to this point by taking the large coil wire out of the cap and holding it close to a ground. You also had this part correct. Next take off the distributor cap and with a small screwdriver open the points. It will make the big coil wire spark at the ground. If you are lucky when you take the cap off you might be close to the lobe on the distributor cam. If so you can twist the rotor to open and close the points to test. The positive wires feed the power to the coil, the negative wire goes the the points, when you open the points it causes the coil to discharge. You can test a coils windings with a vom meter. Look it up on youtube they are all the same. A coil is very reliable and most problems are in the points, next the rotor and cap terminals as Chad saw on the hup. Have Chads friend John look at it, he's a mechanic, and will have you running in minutes
F Schwartz related it has been converted to a module, in which case it wouldn't need the resistor. If original, I would check the point gap which is .019 with a feeler gage or 30 degrees on a dwell meter. Also check to make sure the rotor is turning. Over the years I've seen several distributer gears fail. If it can't engage the drive gear, the engine spins, but the distributor shaft sits still. The condensor (capacitor) is a rare culprit, but they do occasionally fail. I haven't bought points and condensors in more years than I can remember. However, a long time ago, I do remember going to a parts store to get a set for a four cylinder Chev (Iron Duke) boat motor. The kid behind the counter had no idea what I was asking for, but allowed me to look for the parts myself. Took them to the boat, did an eyeball adjustment and it fired right up.
Thanks Chad for another great video..... This IS better than any show on You Tube or TV
Love jim! Sometimes geniuses tend to make simple things very complicated. It takes another mind and set of eyes to take a look and give new perspective
hey jim....good to see you again....hook up the power wires to the coil pop off the cap....turn on the key and open the points with a screw driver see if they spark....if so check cap or rotor might be shot....clean up the points and re gap them...check for power going from the coil to distributor...the test light will flicker if the points are working
will be nice to see you two working together again jims a good friend to you and a great guest on the channel very knowledgeable thanks chad n jolene
@@mixhammers5187 everyone knows that she was banned end of and for your info since she was banned subs have gone up by 1000 chat is full of proper car chat as chad wanted chad gave me and benton a massive shout out for doing a great job as moderators you must have saw that thats the end of the matter if you keep persisting in this course of action you are only making yourself look foolish nobody is interested
It doesn't matter if you get anything done.The conversation with Jim is prure gold!😊
Jim's instincts were absolutely right. Remember that the distributor has 2 functions - firstly to make/break the connection to earth that's what allows the coil to create the spark. The second function is to deliver the spark to the correct cylinder. If only Jim had removed that blue wire from earth when the igintion was switched on, you would have seen a spark - No need to actually crank the engine. Also the coil casing doesn't need to be earthed. Where is Downtown John when you need him?
I really like Jim's workshop, there is a lot of interesting junk. Also nice to see the transformation of the Oldsmobile, which was originally a rusty wreck. 😎👍
Greetings from Switzerland
Great to have Jim back again ,can't wait to see the latest on his Oldsmobile ,with Bad Chad,Jolene and Fina on it👍👍🏻👀🧢
Good times, good people's!
Could also be the ballast resistor. Some cars have a wire from the ignition switch or a block on the firewall. This will be a good one for both of you to work on.
If it was me would go and get a good coil, points, rotar arm, dizzy cap etc and set it up as original. At the very least get a new coil to start with.
Chad and Jim are so interesting to watch. Chad has so much patience just a genuinely nice guy lol
Just watched this episode again. The issue is that in a coil, the ground is connected to the points or electronic module so that the primary is “switched” on-and-off to rapidly energize and collapse the magnetic field inside the coil. This causes the primary (connected to 12VDC) to induce an electrical current in the secondary (connected to the distributor and to the spark plug sequence) and to increase the voltage by several orders of magnitude (20,000 V +). A coil is like a transformer, which does not work on DC. It needs to be subject to an alternating current to work. The points or electronic module simulate an alternating current by switching 12 VDC to 0 VDC and back to 12 VDC and so on. The resultant “square wave” is what makes the coil work. Grounding the coil does not work unless the ground is rapidly switched on and off. It’s just how electrical inductance work.
Visiting Day!!!!! Its great to see what friends do for each other.
So true. People need people. I hope we get to see them visiting together more often before the snow sets in.
From what I can see, You don't have any power to the (+) side of the coil. You need a hot (+) supply to the coil as well as the red wire from the distributor. The red wire from the distributor does not supply power to the coil. It needs the (+) feed from the coil to power the module in the distributor. The black wire from the distributor goes to the (-) side of the coil. There is a very high possibility that the module is fried by now but give it a try.
Always nice to see Jim love the olds thanks for sharing
Please tell Jim, hook both positive to the coil. Then put the short wire back on the - side. Plug the distributor wire and lay the coil down. Set the spark wire near metal, take the short wire and touch and release to the metal block. If it sparks, the coil is working and your electronic ignition is not working. Put an ohm meter on the wire to the distributor and touch the block. Turn over the engine and the ohms should bounce up and zero. If no ohm meter, get your 12 volt test light. One side to + and - to distributor, turn over the engine, light should flutter.
Super nice that Jim has great friends. Chad and Jolene are wonderful people.
Hey guys,
6:30am here. I would check the resistance of the coil with a multimeter. Also, the Huprod had a similar problem and it seemed to be the rotor not conducting/making good contact with dizzy cap thus not allowing coil voltage to reach plugs. My 2 cents :-)
OK, this is "off the cuff": I was getting a bit crazy with intermittent ignition problems on my 455 Olds - HEI ignition. New "everything": wires, cap, rotor, condenser, "module"..... WHAT COULD BE WRONG ???????????? Oh, wait, there is that little circular magnetic sensor around the shaft inside the distributor - "factory". That sends the signal to the digital switch. THAT was the problem !!!!!!!!! It had to be! And it was. Easy to take for granted.
?
Which brings me to: go back to basics: POINTS ! (I read he was HEI???) I still have my original 1969 points distributor for my 455. Not a terrible option.
Who doesn't love Jim. He sure is a very Cool guy .
Great seeing y’all helping Jim today
Chad's always helping out a good neighbor , and look it's Jim! Coil ? Jim it could be a few things that don't make spark . 🤔 if I had to guess I'd say bad connection to the starter or ground or dead battery or bad wires so your going to eliminate them one by one . Respect you though for asking for help . I'd do the same . Thumbs-up Jolene 👍 and 👍 Chad and 👍 Jim
Buddies working together = wonderful
Jim and Chad , you will need to discard the resistor that drops the 12 volts to 6 volts it is used with a point system and since it has been changed over to electronic conversion verify you have 12 volts from the switch to the positive side of the coil. Its possible the Module is bad in the conversion .Petronix makes a good unit and has a installation video on TH-cam
Negative side of the coil goes to the distributor wire coming from the distributor.
Positive side is the hot side coming from the key and from the starter solenoid for 12 volts while cranking.
Check the points Jim! Make sure they are opening and closing,and not caroded.
Myself,I would put new points and condenser. Then check for spark!
Yep pretty much that simple.
If he has a 12 V electronic module in the cap all he needs to do is bypass the ballast resistor on the firewall to supply a full 12V.
I'm glad to know that I am not the only one where things don't always work the first time!
Always a fun video when Jim in on camera
The resistor is only there to make the points last a reasonable amount of time.
Coils rarely go bad, most likely you have a problem with the points!
They don’t open or they don’t close. Probably just need adjustment but I’ve seen this problem be caused by the distributor not turning!
Open the distributor and have a look!
Really enjoyed this episode. Jim when converting from points to electronic ignition. On my 1973 nova , v8. The resistor wire needed to be switched over to regular wire, the resistor wire will not let it start or run. That's for the pertronix electronic upgrade.
That is because in a 12v points system the resistor lowers the voltage to 9v as the points will burn out if supplied with constant 12v 🙂
@@adminsnat975 exactly, I heard Jim say he changed to electronic ignition
I really enjoyed it a lot and I learn at the same time, every time you get together. And Jolene's incredible camera handling, make all of this a pleasure, and make me feel part of this friendship 😎👍
I wish I was there! I ordered a Tee Shirt this morning and I so excited to show it off. Thanks for all the interesting videos!!
Jim is a treasure and you guys are rocking and rolling.. Thank you, take care and peace out!
Jims in the house with great stories once again. Thanks Chad and Jolene.
Yes I remember having to change out coils. Yes if you use a multimeter you can test to see if a coil is good or not. Also many times run into look new but not good look old but is good. Sometimes old means it was built better.
Hey I’m gonna is
👌 With the ignition on the coil needs to be grounded good, leaving the ignition on for a little while the coil sould start getting warm at the touch of the hand is a sign the coil is good .. But the outside of the coil has to be grounded real good & negative wire connected to the distributor to make spark , if not somethings going on wrong with your electronic ignition 👍
Jim - good talking with you this evening. I hope the diagrams help you out and hope you get it hooked up right! Like I was telling you, I just recently installed a Pertronix Electronic Ignitor in my 57 Buick Wagon, so I understand the confusion!
Great seeing Jim . Thanks for another great video God bless you and jolene 👉❤❤⚘⚘😎😎😎
Video could have gone 3 tomes as long and i still wouldn't have got bored listening to Jim,makes me smile😊
Jim needs to give him self more credit than what he thinks he deserves because he is really intelligent actually knows how to put stuff together especially that red car That thing was a mess you showed us tha like a year and a half ago I thought he’d still be working on that but he’s got it done he’s pretty productive. I’m glad you stepped in and told him he does have some pride you’re the man Chad
Always fun hanging out with Jim 👍
You can’t get entertained like this anywhere else people. 😎👍🇨🇦
Congratulations to everyone that said that the airbags needed more pressure!
best suggestion is to examine module in the distributor for brand name or part # google for a wiring diagram and wire it up accordingly. Just switching wiring around on electronic parts is asking to fry something. Love your shows. I try to check your new one every day.
Helping Jim and brought him breakfast you and Jolene are two awesome people 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
Jim and Chad together cracks me up👍
Love when you guys go to Jims place, brings me back to when my uncle, cousin and I would go there a few times. Great video
Jim cracks me up I think he never stops talking. He seems like a good guy.
Yeah what a great guy. For me one of his most attractive traits is that he is totally authentic and honest.
@@i8ntnuts I think the same thing.
No mechanic, but I would check the voltage on battery and get a coil that says the same as the battery voltage and get a cheap volt- olm meter to see if the coil is open on the small terminals if using those used coils. I think the circuit for the small wires has to work before the coil sends spark to the plugs. Also, I am thinking holding the ground with your hand may not be a good enough connection for checking the coil for spark. Not sure but I think they call the small terminals the primary circuit and the spark the secondary circuit. Thanks for video Jim will get it figured out~ LoL
I love jim with the rolling cigarette thanks for the video.
Always great when Jim is on the channel. Enjoying the shop talk, thanks.
Only just got to watching this video today. Dang, I hate screaming at a screen when I know you can't hear me. LOL.
I've read a lot of comments saying the same thing in different ways, but most would go over the heads of most. Collapsing field, etc., though all correct, might sound like wah wah wah without a visual to go along with.
On initial observations you have a couple simple issues to resolve/know. 1) of course you can test a coil. Use a volt/ohm meter and measure resistance. There is primary resistance readings and secondary resistance readings. Basically a coil has these two parts. If either circuit is open or shorted, or way out of spec, replace it. Go to, uh, TH-cam University for testing process. I won't do it justice without images. 2) you have a ballast resistor, mostly, because oil filled coils cannot run on 12 volts without getting hot and failing prematurely. They've not changed much from their 6 volt cousins. Newer coils can handle the 12 volts, but few do. Aircore coils can, and are cheap (but require the correct plug wire style) Also, if the car had points still, the points arc less on the 9 volts-ish seen after a ballast resistor. 3) the Pertronix setup (I assume) has two wires. A red power wire and a trigger wire, which is not technically a ground. If grounded, as I saw in the video, it will likely fry the Pertronix in short order. This black wire goes to the negative terminal of the coil and is what causes the coil to fire. The coil will never fire as it was wired in the video. The red wire of the Pertronix should go to a 12 volt source, key on. You also must retain the ballast resistor if you use a stock coil, so you need to feed the red wire to the Pertronix pre-ballast resistor, and the coil + terminal post-ballast resistor. 4) the body of the coil is a can, not grounded to anything. The only connections are ( + ) power and ( - ) distributor (black wire on pertronix only). 5) the key switch start/run positions determine when the coil gets 12 volts when cranking on start, the on run goes through the ballast resistor to get the 9 volts. A test light would be a hard tool to use to make sure you're getting the correct voltage.
I know this may even be more words than a picture or video would show. But at least I feel better now. TH-cam University is your friend as well as your bread and butter. 👌
Love watching whether things go well or not. That's how we all learn.
Nice to see the diagnosis process.
Always enjoy the show, but especially enjoy seeing you and Jim work together. Jolene you are doing a great job!
This is one of the best vids. i have seen in about a year ty!!!I actually got a little emotional
Nice to see Jim again Chad & Jolene . New coil needed for sure,electronic ignition module burnt out if wired up wrong,so I would suggest to go back to manual points and condenser 👍 Great watch tho and Good luck
Nice video again with Jim ,replace the electronic ignition in the distributor by the good old points and condensor,thanks for sharing
There are 2 wires coming out of the distributor RED goes to coil + and BLACK goes to coil -
The 2 wires from the Ignition switch go to Coil +
I love all Jim’s animations with his hands and complex explanations on what is such a simple subject.......Chads facial expressions are so funny. 'You cannot be serious'.....:) Hillbilly fun.
The case of the coil Does Not have to be grounded to auto frame ground.
Love watching at Jim's awesome channel 👍👍👍
Jim is right. Connect the red wire from the distributor to positive terminal of coil. Connect the black wire to the negative terminal of coil. The distributor makes and breaks the coil curcuit to give you spark.
power from key to positive side of coil negative to points no need to ground coil
Good to see the Olds getting closer to run.
I’ve had that same kind of conversation before trying to solve a mystery. Love Jim Episodes.
the positive comes from the ignition. the negative comes from the distributor. the spark only happens when the points open up because the coil is like a capacitor. sometimes the positive from the ignition is there when you turn the key on. but when you turn key to start the motor you lose the positive because the ignition is bad. so you take a jumper wire and go from battery. to positive on coil and then try starting the car and it should start and run of your problem is the ignition. so to recap the coil is a device that not only stores voltage but increaces it. so it will only spark when the point open and it has not connection to negative. you can take a coil and hook it up to a regular battery and have the coll out spark next to the ground and whey you take the negative wire off it will then send the spark out. and if you take a coil and hook a positve then a negative for several seconds. then take the positive and negative off the coil still has the voltage in it and you can put a short wire from the positive to the out put and it will spark.
TO TEST THE COILS RESISTANCE Get a Multimeter tester, To test the primary coil. Set it to ohms put the Black lead to negative side of coil and Red to the positive side. The reading should be between point .4 and around 2 ohms. This is called Primary. To test the Secondary coil, put the Black lead to the top of coil where the spark plug wire goes, and the red lead to the positive side of the coil. The reading should show a resistance of about 6k to about 15k. To wire in the coil run a wire or trace a wire from the battery to the key switch. From the key switch to the negative side of coil. then from the positive side of coil to the capacitor in the distributer / breaker in the distributor P.S. Electronic ignition system is different.
The most basic thing when working with electricity is to be sure you have a *circuit*. It's not enough to 'bring power to' a device; electricity needs a way to get back to the source too, or it can't flow
Somebody mentioned that the black box, where the points would be, perhaps cannot switch the power to the coil terminals by itself. It could just be sensing the crankshaft position, and signaling an engine control module to actually switch power to the coil.
Just watched this again because it reminds me of my youth in the garage with my dad god bless him... I reckon most of us car people have had episodes like this with something or other.
It is good to see Jolene, Chad, and Jim working together again. I guess Fina is at home guarding the property. Don't forget to give her a treat when you get home for doing a good job.Bill
Your on the right track Chad from the key to the negative side of coil the positive to the condenser in the distributer.
My favorite are the Jim episodes.
I like all the episodes but Jim does add something for sure. He’s got a good brain.
@@i8ntnuts Jim is all brains on this vid.
Nice to see Jim again , hope he gets the engine running
Troubleshooting day - ignition today, what about those front bags yesterday?
Best content on TH-cam. Keep up the good work Chad & Jolene!!!
Good ole Jim n Chad,these two fellas are just having fun working on the ignition system. Hopefully they checked the coil wire to make sure its not broken.
I love being with you guys it’s like being with buds in the backyard I’ve been with you since day one and will continue. Till the wheels fall off. Ps Jolene sure has the camera work down pat
Love your work Chad and Joelene ! I love watching your channel - Manly Beach Sydney Australia here - much love 🤙
Good show
Great watching you work it out
Awesome at Jim's thanks guys
I was hoping to hear it run tonight. Please keep us posted about jims car. thanks for sharing.
Nice to see there are still good peeps eh, ty i love this video.
Yeah Jim's house today!!! Thanks Chad & Jolene for this content. Thanks Jim for letting all of us come visit!
points are officially called breaker points, as they break the circuit to ground. Meaning as the distributor turns the lobes and cause the points to open and close, breaking and making current for spark for each cylinder. So if you hook up the positive power to the positive on the coil then touch the ground wire to negative of the power source the coil should produce one spark every time, When you break the circuit and re-apply to ground you will get another spark.
Enjoy the show. Thanks for the hard work you two