A Valuable conversation with someone who is intelligently open-minded. If you are getting used to being a slave, you won't understand what she is talking about.
Love the topics but I was a little disappointed since the title "how to become a digital nomad" was not adressed - do you maybe have a link or a recommendation on where to get started?
Loved this. Lauren Razavi explains things so well. As someone who's been "third culture" all my life and lived most of it outside of my passport country, I can't help feeling that the nomad life is in my blood.
As a Kenyan, I find that most nomads only want to interact with locals when they need them to be tour guides. I had to explain to one that I work and cannot go sightseeing on a Tuesday afternoon! LOL. Integration is important. Live like a local.
In my experience of living life in a village right in the middle of local life I think I his is not always the case. I found that a lot of people didn’t want to hang out with me because I was a foreigner. I had an amazing time and luckily a few people noticed I was lonely. I worked in the next village and ate at the same places but it wasn’t easy to get treated normally. It is taxing to feel very different and it has given me such a different perspective on how people feel coming to my home country. I am so grateful for all the situations when I was treated as a member of the community.
This is such a nugget of an interview, that invites to think beyond being a freewheeling digital nomad, but as well about what it really means to be a global citizen. Thank you for having done this and put all these topics on the table.
Lots of interesting things to consider here. I never thought of an internet country! I think it's great to listen in on convos like this where people are thinking creatively for how to live and work in the digital age.
Gosh, this raises so many ethical questions. There are a few points she raised that are problematic: 1. She seems to see citizenship as entirely self-serving, but ctizenship isn't a product or service - it's about duty as much as it is about benefits. 2. There's undoubtedly an environmental impact of globe-trotting and buying Ikea desks wherever you travel. I wonder how nomads would cope with restrictions on air-travel, if they're imposed. 3. The problem of digital nomads not integrating into the communities they work in. Our communities are already becoming more fragmented; digital nomads have to be exacerbating this (their obnoxiousness in Bali, where they live in far more opulence than most natives can ever dream of and where they rarely interact with them, being an example). 4. She sort of contradicted herself with the 'get cooking'/'recipe to follow' quote too, because she earlier emphasised the importance of good planning. The internet itself is an example of how the 'get cooking'/'recipe to follow' approach can lead to terrible, unintended consequences. Its inventor never intended it to be used for bullying, child abuse, human-trafficking, or even just limiting in-person interactions, but here we are. One sound point she made though, was the importance of strong local government, because it's better placed than national or global leaders to make decisions on issues like immigration, that won't negatively impact the local population.
on point 3. I guess it's hard to generalize that all digital nomad workers act like jerks abroad because they can afford a more comfortable life. I am sure some do. She did mention something about not taking the jobs of the locals but rather making the local economy benefit.
But you're paying that person in London or NY or wherever more because of their cost of living. So you want to pay someone in India what someone in NY gets paid - that would be unfair because the person in India would be rich and the person in NY would be just getting by - it would be reverse issue. I do think you should pay decent wages and not cheapest you can get away with because of the country, but expecting to pay them the same is not going to happen (you have the same issues within the US as you do between countries - you have low cost of living areas getting paid way less than the big places like California, NYC, etc
The whole conversation changed when the subject of paying London prices for food in Turkey came up. 😅 There was a lot of backtracking. Frankly, I don't think the gal is very practical.
What an interesting conversation! As someone who recently started a TH-cam Chanel because I am passionate about long term travel and (semi) nomadism as a means of cultural understanding and ultimately hopefully a more peaceful and less xenophobic world, I found the discussion about inequality and the work of plums and safety wing particularly interesting. Will have to rewatch this multiple times to unpack and think through all those ideas. This was my first deep dive episode and I am really impressed!
Digital nomas, those people who love visiting places to feel local but actually never become one. Those who say they love cultures of said places but promote gentrification and displacement of actual locals who can’t afford the new prices.
Haters- people who sh*t talk others to gain attention, without contributing to the conversation or to the upliftment of anyone. Usually keyboard warriors who feel empowered to sh*t-talk while hiding behind their computer screen.
*You* can have an instant social group of both locals and travelers if you just make a quick social media post saying you are wherever. You have the following and no matter where you go, there will be someone to be your on the ground point person
It's interesting the part where they said is it lonely. I feel like it's sort of lonely when other's aren't doing it, it feels like you can't relate to a lot of people who are already settled in one physical place for their job.
Do as you tell your PTYA's to do: just start, keep going, and be patient. I'm happy to help you with accountability on this! Your travel so far hasn't broadened your horizons because as you said you transplant your London life to wherever you are for the week. You need to stay longer, live amongst locals, and do what locals do.
Hey Ali If you’re ever in Ghana on one of your nomadism journeys we should meet up! Also this style of living sounds really cool. Might try integrating some aspects of this in my life
I just don't understand how all these digital nomads work legally on the road. So many countries won't let you legally work when you are there on a passport. It all this work just more secretly?
You can not uproot family and Children every 3 months decide early in life what you want to experiment Do not make children suffer in the process. They need grounding and Stability
Ah Deep Dive Interview with 19Keys?! Omghee, you wouldn't believe how much energy would be in that one!. #coming_soon #19keys #DeepDive #HighLevelConversation
Generally speaking, a nation-state is a political unit where the state and nation are congruent. It is a more precise concept than "country", since a country does not need to have a predominant ethnic group. So before, you would not have a connection to a country as a whole, you would not identify as British, you would be just connected to your feudal lord, village etc., would not really speak the same language as someone from across the Empire etc, you would not know where the borders are etc. Whereas, nowadays, you know exactly where the border between France and Germany are and all people in France speak French and are self-identifying as French. Previously these concepts were not known. However, e.g. the Soviet Union was for example against nation-states, and also some other countries do not really have like a national identity.
I retired two years ago and have been researching visas. Panam has an amazing discount with their visa for those with permanent income. I love the idea of a Nomad Visa and a Nomad Digital State.
I am very intrigued by the internet country and maybe having more fluid borders if it can be done without compromising security. However, you lost me on the paying employees from other countries like the Philippines a London or Silicon Valley wage! Do what?! No. The reason I would hire somone out of country like that is because I think I'm overpaying for that service in my country. They have a lower cost of living, so yes their wages are lower too. If you want to pay them a fair wage, pay them 2 to 3 x the cost of living of living in their local area. Global wages are not and shouldn't be a thing until housing, food, electricity, etc. are also globally priced. And yet, you don't have a problem with paying a lower local price for stuff. Its all connected. You can't consider what a fair wage is without looking at the price of everything that is needed to live and earn that wage. Also, I just quit watching after you mentioned paying taxes to the country your staying in. How would paying income taxes to the country that I am not making any income from make sense? If the way I am making money is from companies or clients in my home country, but am visiting another country and remote working, why should I pay them anything? They are already getting a sweet deal because I am taking the money I make from my home country and spending it in their country. Thus moving revenue across borders and enriching the country I'm staying in. When I buy products I pay sales tax and if I buy property I pay property tax. Thats fine and makes sense. Paying an income tax when I did not earn an income from that country does not in any way make sense. Paying twice the amount of taxes for the same amount of money is how you stop people from traveling or bankrupt them. Only remote workers who have part of their customer base or earn money from a company in that country should have to pay an income tax. And even then, they should only pay for the amount that they earned there. So, yeah, sorry for the rant. I just couldn't not call out these major problems with what you were saying. I do hope you can find a way to make remote work and travel easier for everyone, but please consider security.
Great interview/ overview "for Ali" LMAO 🤣 She basically gave Ali the means to "go global". I love it!. AaRDeJaeADM - AaRDeJae Digital Nomad Think that sounds terrific 😅 Imma give it go and "go global" well "go national " 👏 🤞🏾 💪🏾
I just learned this term this week! I didnt know it was a name for this. This is the lifestyle I want! Im not a very popular person so if the work requires that, idk if its for me. Seems like you need a following to be a digital nomad.
Nah you don't. Just the influencers that are sharing this lifestyle making it seem like that. But you can do it with any job as long as you can do it on a laptop with wifi.
🥹 🤩Such a cool episode. Tim Ferris book had an impact on me too quite young. I’d always thought to myself that I would love to be able to work from anywhere as long as I have a laptop and internet connection. Then I learned about digital nomadism and I was like that’s it - that’s what I’m going to be. 😊 I’m looking forward to exploring more and more of this lifestyle over the next few years and sharing my experiences. I find making local friends and contacts is very important for enjoying the experience.
Hope you enjoyed the episode, head to shortform.com/deepdive to get 20% off the annual premium subscription 😀
She's intelligent and well spoken, plus, her cause is noble. Cheers
A Valuable conversation with someone who is intelligently open-minded. If you are getting used to being a slave, you won't understand what she is talking about.
so funny to hear her love for Malaysia multiple times over the conversation :) that's always nice to hear
as a Malaysian i m really shock about it when she mention how her husband and her love Malaysia
Love the topics but I was a little disappointed since the title "how to become a digital nomad" was not adressed - do you maybe have a link or a recommendation on where to get started?
Don't worry, you're not becoming one with this amount of independent information searching skills 😂
Loved this. Lauren Razavi explains things so well. As someone who's been "third culture" all my life and lived most of it outside of my passport country, I can't help feeling that the nomad life is in my blood.
as a digital nomad in Central America, I identified with this podcast so much. Having a home base is very important to keep the balance in my life.
what part?
As a Kenyan, I find that most nomads only want to interact with locals when they need them to be tour guides. I had to explain to one that I work and cannot go sightseeing on a Tuesday afternoon!
LOL.
Integration is important. Live like a local.
Good point.
In my experience of living life in a village right in the middle of local life I think I his is not always the case. I found that a lot of people didn’t want to hang out with me because I was a foreigner. I had an amazing time and luckily a few people noticed I was lonely. I worked in the next village and ate at the same places but it wasn’t easy to get treated normally. It is taxing to feel very different and it has given me such a different perspective on how people feel coming to my home country. I am so grateful for all the situations when I was treated as a member of the community.
Thank you Lauren, Ali, Angus, Elizabeth and other people behind the scenes! Raza :)
I went to sixth form with Lauren glad she’s doing amazing ❤️
This is such a nugget of an interview, that invites to think beyond being a freewheeling digital nomad, but as well about what it really means to be a global citizen. Thank you for having done this and put all these topics on the table.
Lots of interesting things to consider here. I never thought of an internet country! I think it's great to listen in on convos like this where people are thinking creatively for how to live and work in the digital age.
Gosh, this raises so many ethical questions. There are a few points she raised that are problematic:
1. She seems to see citizenship as entirely self-serving, but ctizenship isn't a product or service - it's about duty as much as it is about benefits.
2. There's undoubtedly an environmental impact of globe-trotting and buying Ikea desks wherever you travel. I wonder how nomads would cope with restrictions on air-travel, if they're imposed.
3. The problem of digital nomads not integrating into the communities they work in. Our communities are already becoming more fragmented; digital nomads have to be exacerbating this (their obnoxiousness in Bali, where they live in far more opulence than most natives can ever dream of and where they rarely interact with them, being an example).
4. She sort of contradicted herself with the 'get cooking'/'recipe to follow' quote too, because she earlier emphasised the importance of good planning. The internet itself is an example of how the 'get cooking'/'recipe to follow' approach can lead to terrible, unintended consequences. Its inventor never intended it to be used for bullying, child abuse, human-trafficking, or even just limiting in-person interactions, but here we are.
One sound point she made though, was the importance of strong local government, because it's better placed than national or global leaders to make decisions on issues like immigration, that won't negatively impact the local population.
on point 3. I guess it's hard to generalize that all digital nomad workers act like jerks abroad because they can afford a more comfortable life. I am sure some do. She did mention something about not taking the jobs of the locals but rather making the local economy benefit.
But you're paying that person in London or NY or wherever more because of their cost of living. So you want to pay someone in India what someone in NY gets paid - that would be unfair because the person in India would be rich and the person in NY would be just getting by - it would be reverse issue. I do think you should pay decent wages and not cheapest you can get away with because of the country, but expecting to pay them the same is not going to happen (you have the same issues within the US as you do between countries - you have low cost of living areas getting paid way less than the big places like California, NYC, etc
Amazing job Ali. I love these Deep Dive conversations and the people that you bring. Keep up the good work!
The whole conversation changed when the subject of paying London prices for food in Turkey came up. 😅 There was a lot of backtracking. Frankly, I don't think the gal is very practical.
What an interesting conversation! As someone who recently started a TH-cam Chanel because I am passionate about long term travel and (semi) nomadism as a means of cultural understanding and ultimately hopefully a more peaceful and less xenophobic world, I found the discussion about inequality and the work of plums and safety wing particularly interesting. Will have to rewatch this multiple times to unpack and think through all those ideas. This was my first deep dive episode and I am really impressed!
Digital nomas, those people who love visiting places to feel local but actually never become one. Those who say they love cultures of said places but promote gentrification and displacement of actual locals who can’t afford the new prices.
Gentrification is a lie
Haters- people who sh*t talk others to gain attention, without contributing to the conversation or to the upliftment of anyone. Usually keyboard warriors who feel empowered to sh*t-talk while hiding behind their computer screen.
This is one of the most inspiring visions I've ever heard
*You* can have an instant social group of both locals and travelers if you just make a quick social media post saying you are wherever. You have the following and no matter where you go, there will be someone to be your on the ground point person
Interesting. Do you know which is the app she mentioned to meet people?
Very meaningful talking and Mission that Lauren’s idea of peoples’ freedom of choice , no limit of countries 👏🏻🌹🌈
I love your energy 🤩
Come to Amsterdam Ali its cool here :) Thanks for the insights Lauren!
I don't see the ethical dilemma in how much to pay someone who lives in eg The Philippines. Pay is relative to the cost of living.
1:40:00 Great point, Ali! I have been wondering what was going on in your mind whilst Lauren was talking.
Wow, really liked the new perspective on countries competing for talents and more fluid global movements. Great talk, thanks!
It's interesting the part where they said is it lonely. I feel like it's sort of lonely when other's aren't doing it, it feels like you can't relate to a lot of people who are already settled in one physical place for their job.
Cool that you like the Netherlands so much 🎉 😮 i love England just been to Devon, so beautiful
Do as you tell your PTYA's to do: just start, keep going, and be patient. I'm happy to help you with accountability on this! Your travel so far hasn't broadened your horizons because as you said you transplant your London life to wherever you are for the week. You need to stay longer, live amongst locals, and do what locals do.
Really danm solid interview! Loved it! I'm a new listener and subscriber!
well that's interesting! more things to think about for me
Hey Ali
If you’re ever in Ghana on one of your nomadism journeys we should meet up!
Also this style of living sounds really cool. Might try integrating some aspects of this in my life
Excellent thoughts
I just don't understand how all these digital nomads work legally on the road. So many countries won't let you legally work when you are there on a passport. It all this work just more secretly?
Very interesting interview. Pls interview wealthy, matured digitaĺ nomads to share their experiences.
Digital nomad 💪🏻
the segment 'hiring across boarders' - you've misspelt borders
Very interesting thank you
You can not uproot family and Children every 3 months decide early in life what you want to experiment
Do not make children suffer in the process. They need grounding and Stability
Ah Deep Dive Interview with 19Keys?!
Omghee, you wouldn't believe how much energy would be in that one!. #coming_soon #19keys #DeepDive #HighLevelConversation
Don't worry about making an online state. Estonia is already there for you all 😁
The conversation regarding pay was not completely worked out. Compensation isn't simply about wages but the value of what those wages can purchase.
Generally speaking, a nation-state is a political unit where the state and nation are congruent. It is a more precise concept than "country", since a country does not need to have a predominant ethnic group. So before, you would not have a connection to a country as a whole, you would not identify as British, you would be just connected to your feudal lord, village etc., would not really speak the same language as someone from across the Empire etc, you would not know where the borders are etc. Whereas, nowadays, you know exactly where the border between France and Germany are and all people in France speak French and are self-identifying as French. Previously these concepts were not known. However, e.g. the Soviet Union was for example against nation-states, and also some other countries do not really have like a national identity.
I retired two years ago and have been researching visas. Panam has an amazing discount with their visa for those with permanent income. I love the idea of a Nomad Visa and a Nomad Digital State.
My dream ❤️
Globe-sh*tting has a new name.
I am very intrigued by the internet country and maybe having more fluid borders if it can be done without compromising security.
However, you lost me on the paying employees from other countries like the Philippines a London or Silicon Valley wage! Do what?! No. The reason I would hire somone out of country like that is because I think I'm overpaying for that service in my country. They have a lower cost of living, so yes their wages are lower too. If you want to pay them a fair wage, pay them 2 to 3 x the cost of living of living in their local area. Global wages are not and shouldn't be a thing until housing, food, electricity, etc. are also globally priced. And yet, you don't have a problem with paying a lower local price for stuff. Its all connected. You can't consider what a fair wage is without looking at the price of everything that is needed to live and earn that wage.
Also, I just quit watching after you mentioned paying taxes to the country your staying in. How would paying income taxes to the country that I am not making any income from make sense? If the way I am making money is from companies or clients in my home country, but am visiting another country and remote working, why should I pay them anything? They are already getting a sweet deal because I am taking the money I make from my home country and spending it in their country. Thus moving revenue across borders and enriching the country I'm staying in. When I buy products I pay sales tax and if I buy property I pay property tax. Thats fine and makes sense. Paying an income tax when I did not earn an income from that country does not in any way make sense. Paying twice the amount of taxes for the same amount of money is how you stop people from traveling or bankrupt them. Only remote workers who have part of their customer base or earn money from a company in that country should have to pay an income tax. And even then, they should only pay for the amount that they earned there.
So, yeah, sorry for the rant. I just couldn't not call out these major problems with what you were saying. I do hope you can find a way to make remote work and travel easier for everyone, but please consider security.
Amazing
This is interesting
Great interview/ overview "for Ali" LMAO 🤣
She basically gave Ali the means to "go global". I love it!. AaRDeJaeADM - AaRDeJae Digital Nomad
Think that sounds terrific 😅
Imma give it go and "go global" well "go national " 👏 🤞🏾 💪🏾
Hello
This sounds soooo lonely.
First
I just learned this term this week! I didnt know it was a name for this. This is the lifestyle I want! Im not a very popular person so if the work requires that, idk if its for me. Seems like you need a following to be a digital nomad.
Nah you don't. Just the influencers that are sharing this lifestyle making it seem like that. But you can do it with any job as long as you can do it on a laptop with wifi.
🥹 🤩Such a cool episode. Tim Ferris book had an impact on me too quite young. I’d always thought to myself that I would love to be able to work from anywhere as long as I have a laptop and internet connection. Then I learned about digital nomadism and I was like that’s it - that’s what I’m going to be. 😊 I’m looking forward to exploring more and more of this lifestyle over the next few years and sharing my experiences.
I find making local friends and contacts is very important for enjoying the experience.